Oral History Program Raymond Moser Interviewed by Lorrie Rands 6 June 2019 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Raymond Moser Interviewed by Lorrie Rands 6 June 2019 Copyright © 2023 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Utah Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum honors men and women whose lives exemplify the independence and resilience of the people who settled Utah, and includes artists, champions, entertainers, musicians, ranchers, writers, and those persons, past and present, who have promoted the Western way of life. Each year, the inductees are interviewed about their lives and experiences living the Western way of life. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Moser, Raymond, an oral history by Lorrie Rands, 6 June 2019, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections and University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Janet Moser, conducted on June 6, 2019, by Lorrie Rands. Janet discusses her husband, Raymond Moser, and his experiences in Utah’s rodeo community. Alyssa Dove, the audio technician, is also present during this interview. LR: Alright, today is June 6, 2019. We are in the home of Janet Moser talking about her husband, Raymond Moser for the Utah Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum Hall of Fame and Weber State University. I’m Lorrie Rands, conducting the interview, and Alyssa Dove is here too. Thank you, Janet, for your willingness to sit and talk and do this. I’m very grateful. Let’s just start with where and when was Raymond born? JM: Raymond was born in Salt Lake City. He moved to Ogden when he was about thirteen years old, went to Central Junior High. He was a boxer in his younger years, Golden Gloves Champion, and then he and I met. We were young. We were married young. I told him if he wanted to go with me, he’d have to be a cowboy. So every weekend we went up to Hardware Ranch where they had the rodeo. I don’t know if you remember the rodeos at Hardware Ranch, but he thought he would like to be a bull-rider. So he started out as a bull-rider. Of course, that didn’t pay much money, and then he went to bareback riding. Then one day he was at a rodeo and the clown got hurt and everybody says, “Oh, get Moser! He’s a natural,” and it took off from there. LR: Do you know about what year that was when he started? I mean if you don’t, that’s fine. JM: I’ll think about it. 1 LR: Alright, so I’m going to kind of go back a bit. You said he was born in Salt Lake, and he lived there for thirteen years. Did he ever talk about his time in Salt Lake? JM: Was on the wrong side of the tracks and it was tough. LR: Okay, so do you know where he went to elementary school? JM: I really don’t. He never finished high school. Don’t know if you want his work record. He worked over 30 years for Hill Air Force Base. LR: Okay, I was going to ask you that. JM: And other steel plants: Alan Steel, Tech Steel, some in Salt Lake… well, wherever they needed Raymond. But every weekend we had to find a rodeo to go to, and actually riding did not pay off but when he started clowning, there was a paycheck in clowning so that made it more livable. LR: Do you know why he started to box, why he did boxing? JM: West side of the street. LR: Okay, and apparently he was pretty good, because he won the Golden Gloves. JM: The Golden Gloves. LR: And then the AAU. What is the AAU? JM: Amateurs. LR: Oh, it’s an amateurs [competition]. Okay, that’s helpful. JM: I could get some pictures if you’re interested in seeing them. LR: Oh sure. Absolutely, that’d be great. [video cuts] [audio back] LR: Okay, so I’m curious, where did you grow up? 2 JM: Ogden. LR: You said you were both pretty young when you first met. Do you remember where you met? JM: I don’t know if I should tell that story or not, but my dad worked at the State Industrial School, and I don’t know if you know what that is or not. LR: State Industrial School? JM: Reformatory. LR: Oh, okay. JM: The ATC is there now on that campus, but that’s where I grew up. He just grew up in Ogden. He went to Central, and I went to Ogden. Like I says, he wanted to date and I said, “Well you’ve gotta be a cowboy before I go with ya,” and so he started trying to be. LR: Okay, so did he have an interest in horses or the cowboy-way before he met you? JM: No, he didn’t. LR: Why were you so set on having a cowboy for a boyfriend? JM: Oh well, I loved horses. I had a horse, and I rode in the Grand Entry every year, so it was a big thing. I had some friends that were rodeoing, so he’d fit right in and we’d put him on a horse and about got killed but he made it. LR: So he became really good at being a cowboy? JM: He was a fair cowboy, but he was an excellent clown. LR: Okay. You said that he did bull-riding first, and then bareback riding. Do you remember about when he started clowning? 3 JM: Oh it had to be in the late 1950’s because we were married in 1951. Those first few years it was riding bareback and bulls and then, like I said, somebody needed a clown and it just took off from there. LR: Do you know what his favorite act was? JM: Blowin’ up a hat, the hat trick. LR: How did that go? JM: Sometimes, not well. He should’ve warned ‘em that this hat was going to be blown up and “Oh take my hat!” Everybody wants you to take their hat, but when he blows it up some of ‘em got mad. There’d been more than once that he was chased into the camper. LR: Oh man! I can see that. That’s kind of scary. JM: Yeah and I says, “You know those kids, they’ve saved their money up all these years to get a new hat and you blow it up?” I got after him about it, but anyway I was his critic. LR: You said that every weekend that he’d go and find a rodeo? JM: Well, every weekend they had one at Hardware Ranch. I don’t know if you know where that is? LR: No, where is that? JM: If you’re going to Causey Reservoir, as you’re going up towards Monte Cristo and you turn off to go to Causey…you know where Causey is? LR: I don’t. JM: It’s right there, there’s a little café there now. The ropes are still in the arena, but that was Hardware Ranch. 4 LR: So he did that one first and then…? JM: Yeah, because it was cheap and easy and close. Then we started going to others, professional [rodeos in] Logan, Preston. So he has been all over a lot in the states. He never went to Texas, ‘cause there’re clowns a dime a dozen down there, so he didn’t even try to go to Texas. But we went to Calgary, and a lot up into Canada, and Arizona. It was fun. I enjoyed it. ‘Course it was more my thing than his, I think. LR: So do you think he was clowning just for you or do you think he actually enjoyed it? JM: No, he enjoyed it. He got it in his blood and he enjoyed it. LR: That’s good. When did he become a member of the PRCA? JM: I don’t know if it’s in that letter or not. LR: It just says, “mid 1960’s.” JM: It could’ve been, I do not know a definite date. LR: So was that something that he sought after, to become a member of the PRCA? Was that important? JM: Yes, because for the big rodeos you had to be a member of the PRCA. LR: Okay, I did not know that. JM: Yeah, Ogden’s a PRCA rodeo, Salt Lake’s a PRCA rodeo, so those are your big ones if they are PRCA. LR: Alright, so he couldn’t clown in those rodeos unless he was a member? JM: Yeah, you had to be a member. LR: Wow, I learned something. I didn’t know that. From everything I’ve read, he did this for years. He clowned for years. 5 JM: Well, 51. He’s been hurt, broken legs, arms. I can remember one time when he got hurt; I think it was down in Murray, and he broke his leg. I took him to the hospital and he thought the doctors were too slow so he got up and hobbled out of that hospital. They were running after him trying to get him to stop. He went to another hospital. LR: Hopefully, they were faster at the other one. JM: Yeah. So that was kind of his character. LR: What was his worst injury? JM: Probably a broken leg. LR: Okay. I’m envisioning being speared by the bull, or just jumping into the Barrel wrong? JM: No, he was a real pro when it came to jumping into that barrel. He’d gone down head first and come up head first. LR: Well, how’d he do that? JM: I don’t know. I don’t know how he did that. LR: I’m envisioning this little barrel. Wow, that’s amazing. Before we started, you mentioned that he helped Dean Steed get his start in clowning. JM: Yes. LR: Was he a mentor to a lot of clowns? JM: Yeah, he had a lot of young guys/boys come and he’d try to help them. LR: Besides Dean, do you know some of the other individuals he helped? JM: I don’t know if you know Randy Munds? LR: I don’t. 6 JM: Munds, he’s from Garland area. A lot of them will probably say they got started on their own, but I’m sure Ray had a lot of influence on them. AD: I have a question about Dean. Did he know him beforehand? Were they friends before he started mentoring him in clowning? JM: No. AD: No? How’d they meet? JM: Just meeting at the rodeos. You just meet at the rodeos and become friends that way. LR: From what I’ve gathered it is a very tight-knit group and you get to know one another really well as you travel from rodeo to rodeo. JM: That’s right. You never knew when one was going to be broke down on the side of the road, you’d always stop and help them. LR: I noticed that one of the little things in his biography is the fact that he felt you were an instrumental part in his success. JM: Because I wouldn’t go with him until he was a cowboy. LR: And did you travel with him at all? JM: Oh yeah, I loved it. I liked it more than him, I think. ‘Course I was busy; I rode in the Grand Entry packin’ a flag, then I’d run up and was a timer and timed events. LR: So you were just as busy at the rodeo as he was. JM: Yeah, plus just trying to help him getting his acts going. But this is for Swaney Kirby, I don’t know if you know who… LR: I do, I do know Swaney Kirby. JM: I was a timer and packed flags for them for years. 7 LR: Okay, so now you both kind of worked for Swaney Kirby at the same time. JM: Yeah. LR: Okay, that’s cool. So how many kids did you guys have? JM: Four. LR: And would the kids travel with you to the rodeos? JM: Yes, in a camper, four little heads looking out as they’re going down the road. ‘Course they’d set up their tent after we’d get to the rodeo, the boys would; the girls would sleep in the camper. I had two girls and two boys and they helped a lot. LR: Did they ever get tired of going with you guys? JM: Only when they found their boyfriend. They would rather stay at home, but that’s understandable. LR: Yeah, it is. Of your four children, how many of them are involved in the rodeo? JM: Actually, Terri. I don’t know if you went to the New Year’s Eve rodeo up at Ogden? He got hurt, and he’s still hurt and I’m still mad at him. But he was a good clown. That year Ray got his leg broke he sent Terri and Kevin to Canada, ‘cause he had a bunch of rodeos up there. They did the rodeos for him. LR: So when Ray couldn’t do it, he’d send his sons? JM: Yeah. Terri liked it. Kevin, I don’t know if he liked it or not. He’s my quiet one. LR: Your girls, were they involved at all in the rodeo? JM: Yeah, if they needed an extra girl to pack flags. We could hop on the horse and pack flags. LR: Okay, so did you guys live here in Ogden during all this time? JM: Yes, right here. 8 LR: What was your favorite rodeo? Of all the times you and he went, what was your favorite one? JM: You know, I’m still partial to Ogden but Salt Lake was great also. It was kind of a toss-up between Ogden and Salt Lake. I mean it was easy, we’re home, you don’t have all the travelin’ and they were both good rodeos, so. LR: He clowned for a long time. He was about 60 when he stopped clowning? I read “one of the last rodeos he worked was at the age of 61.” JM: Okay, and that’s probably right. LR: “Still diving head-first into his barrel.” I’m just envisioning…do you know how he kept doing it for so long? JM: I don’t know how he did it to start with. I couldn’t dive into that barrel and come up, you know, go head down and come up head first. LR: He was still doing it at 60 it just seems so amazing to me. Okay, speaking of that, this says that his friends attributed the ability to jump into the barrel, that ability to senility. So he was just a little crazy? JM: Yeah, that fits him good. LR: Okay. From what I’ve read it sounds like he always tried to help those that wanted to learn. JM: Yeah, he was always having some kid and his dad come, and you know the kid wanted to do this and he’d always try and help them. LR: Do you know how he felt when he found out about Dean’s injury? Do you know if that affected him? JM: I’m sure it did, but he kept it to himself. 9 LR: Okay, he didn’t talk about it. I’ll leave that one alone. AD: Do you know what his favorite thing about being a clown for the rodeo was? JM: His favorite thing? I think, this is not nice to say, but attention. I mean you don’t go out and get yourself half-way killed if you’re not short a few blocks. LR: So if I’m not mistaken, being the clown [means] you’re protecting the cowboy from the bull or the horse, and putting yourself in harm’s way so that the cowboy can leave the arena if they get bucked off. JM: Yes. LR: Yeah, it’s a little crazy. JM: Yeah, ‘course he had a trick horse that did tricks and a dog. I don’t know if you’d be interested in seeing a picture of them or not. LR: If you have them, but we can do that when we’re done. So he would use both of those in his act? The horse and the dog? JM: No, it was one or the other. LR: Okay, not both. JM: Not together, the dog had his tricks and the horse had his tricks so. LR: So the contestants in the rodeo, did they like it when Ray was the clown? JM: I think they all liked him, as far as I know. LR: Okay. I’m wondering if they preferred him over other clowns. JM: That I don’t know. But I know Weber State hired him for their college rodeo, and he worked the high school rodeos here in Ogden. So he was active with them. 10 LR: Now one thing that I’ve noticed about these: those who work the rodeo circus, they always have their steady job that they come home to. You said your husband worked at Hill Air Force Base for 30 years. What did he do there? JM: Well, those 30 years were broken up in about six different attempts. He worked as a welder, that was his main thing. Then when he quit Hill, he was a boiler plant operator. LR: So obviously he retired from doing that after so long. JM: Sixty-five. He was 65 when he retired. LR: So when he retired from the rodeo and from his work, how did he fill his time? JM: Great fisherman, hunter. LR: Okay, I was wondering… [points to wall hangings] JM: Yeah, he did. We got a boat, so we’d take the boat to Flamin’ Gorge and that’s where we’d head and fish. So the boat took over. AD: I don’t know if you already talked about this, but you talked about how dangerous it was to be a clown. Were there any close calls that you remember? JM: Oh yes there was, I mean you’re there with your hand on the bull and it was dangerous. I didn’t dare tell my insurance man what he did. LR: Keep that part secret. When you said, “hand on the bull,” he’d actually get that close? JM: Oh yeah, oh yeah. [pulls out photographs] That’s some of his fun acts. “Fortysecond Rodeo Anniversary.” Now I don’t even know where that is… Preston Rodeo Arena. Then we had a grandson, [and] he wanted to be a clown. LR: Well that’s cool that he had a great mentor. 11 JM: Yeah. He wasn’t always in the barrel. Here’s some actions pictures of him out of the barrel. AD: Oh man, he got really close. Is there any specific story you remember about him brushing up real close? JM: There’s so many, I couldn’t pick out… AD: Or one where you were really scared for his safety? JM: Well, it’s a good thing I was busy. LR: Yeah, actually that makes sense. Oh wow, they’re just taunting that bull. [holding another picture] JM: I know it! See this is one where he’s riding a bull? LR: Oh that’s a great picture. JM: Isn’t that? That’s in Ogden. Oh, here’s a picture of the trick pony. LR: Oh, that’s so cute. JM: You know this is kind of far away, but you can tell that the bull… I don’t even know who’s in the barrel, but that was in Montana. Now I know Tim’s dad made it to the Hall of Fame. LR: Yeah, I didn’t do that interview. He was interviewed, just not by me. JM: But Tim was a good clown at one time too. We clowned a lot with him. [looking at photo book] I mean they’re just fun. Look, there’s that little trick pony. LR: Oh, so it was a little pony? JM: Yeah, Shetland. AD: Did it have a name? JM: Cappy. That was my brother’s name. 12 LR: That’s kind of funny. JM: That kind of gives you an idea. LR: So he rode? JM: He tries to jump ‘em. LR: Geez. And because you were so busy, did you ever see his act? JM: Oh yeah, I was up in the crow’s nest. But, I mean to me, I loved it. LR: Okay, was there a reason they put on the clown makeup? JM: Just to be a clown. LR: Was that more for the audience or did it help them with the bulls somehow? JM: No, not that I know of. It was just part of the clown act or the [getup/costume]. Oh, there’s a picture with him and Cappy, and then we had the dog Toby. LR: So he’s trying to jump the bull? JM: No, he’s in the barrel. LR: Oh, he’s in the barrel so someone else is jumping the bull. JM: Yes, I don’t know who…oh, Chuck Hansen. AD: How did they jump over the bull? Was it like they got a running head start? LR: Looks like they used the barrel. JM: Yeah, they used the barrel on this one to get him up in the air. I don’t know if you know who Chuck Hansen is? LR: I don’t. JM: He was a good, good clown. He was from Arizona. LR: Okay, and how many clowns worked at the same time? Was it just one or two? 13 JM: Two. It wasn’t good to just have one. You needed the other to save each other, so you always had two. LR: That makes sense. JM: But I can’t believe they’d get that close. To me, it’s too close. LR: Is it hard to look at these [pictures] sometimes? JM: No, I have good memories. LR: I love the fact that he actually was here in 1995, he actually worked with his grandson on a rodeo. I think that’s just fantastic. JM: I’ve got one picture where it’s Ray, my son, and my grandson, all three of them worked the same rodeo. So that was kind of interesting, and [my] other grandson wanted to be a clown, but he thought he could just outrun the bulls. He was a fast runner. He went to the University of Utah and he was a football player. He goes down to the colosseum and the rodeo’s all over with, they turn the bulls out to take them to the other end. Well, he decides he’s gonna go jump one, and that bull caught him and broke his leg. He didn’t go to California with the team to play football. He hasn’t tried it either, since then. LR: Okay. So from what I’m gathering, there has to be a certain amount of respect for the bull when you’re clowning. JM: Yeah, you’ve got to have the respect for that. [looking at photograph] Oh there’s a picture of my son, the one that got hurt. LR: Yeah, you said he’s still not doing well? JM: No he isn’t, in fact, they’re thinking about re-breaking this [gesturing to shoulder]. LR: Oh, he broke his arm. 14 JM: I don’t know if it’s the joint or the arm or [what] but it’s not healing very good. LR: So who’s this woman here? JM: Oh, that’s Lynn Anderson. You know who she is, don’t you? LR: [shakes head no] JM: She’s a singer. LR: Oh. No, I don’t know who she is. JM: She would sing at the rodeo, the star; you know how they have them. And this is back in Iowa. LR: Oh, okay. JM: I think it’s Iowa, back East somewhere. [looking at picture] Okay, here’s a picture of Ray, my son, and my grandson. LR: Oh, that’s a good picture. JM: I can’t remember what rodeo it was; they did get to do a rodeo together. I don’t know if you know who Monte Montana was? LR: It’s not familiar. JM: Him and his wife used to be performers, and they’re from Montana. He ropes, and he has the girls riding the circle and he ropes ‘em. I got to ride for him several times, and as a kid growing up he was my idol. LR: Thinking about your husband’s life, and I’m just going to kind of wrap it up here with this last question, what do you think his legacy is? AD: What do you hope he’s remembered for, or what he’s left behind for those coming after him? JM: Everybody liked him. Sometimes he was a jerk, but everybody liked him. 15 LR: Okay. What do you think, your son and your grandson having both worked with him, what do you think they took away from their time with him? JM: Just some precious memories. They didn’t have the time to work with him much but what little they did was good times. I can’t think of anything else. LR: It’s all good. I really appreciate your willingness to sit and talk about your husband and share a little bit of his life. JM: Oh, well it’s been a pleasure. LR: I appreciate it, thank you. 16