Oral History Program Reed Brown Interviewed by Ian Orme 26 July 2022 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Reed Brown Interviewed by Ian Orme 26 July 2022 Copyright © 2023 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description Queering the Archives oral history project is a series of oral histories from the LGBTQ+ communities of Weber, Davis and Morgan Counties of Northern Utah. Each interview is a life interview, documenting the interviewee’s unique experiences growing up queer. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Brown, Reed, an oral history by Ian Orme, 26 July 2022, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Reed Brown conducted on July 26, 2022 with Ian Orme. Reed talks about growing up queer in a religiously diverse area of Ogden. He shares his experiences working for Rainbow Gardens and his time at Weber State University. Also present is Faith Christiansen. IO: It is Tuesday, July 26 at noon. We are meeting with Reed Brown here at the Stewart Library. I am Ian Orme. My pronouns are he/him/his. Introduce yourself, please. RB: Yeah, I’m Reed Brown. My pronouns are he/him. IO: We are here with Faith. Could you introduce yourself as well? FC: I'm Faith Christiansen, and I'm on the camera today. My pronouns are she/her/hers. IO: Let's get started. We really like to start with, where and when were you born? RB: Yes, I was born in South Ogden in 1991, in the old McKay-Dee Hospital. It's been torn down, a long time ago. IO: All righty. What was your family dynamic like growing up? RB: There was my mom and my dad and they were married. Then I had a little sister. She's three years younger than me. When you mean dynamic, can you define that? IO: You brought up family structure, but also how did things work? Was it supportive? Was it a nuclear family? Was it more relaxed or progressive? RB: Oh, so we started out as a nuclear family. My mom did work, but probably when my sister was in kindergarten, she didn't like being away from us, so she became a stay-at-home-mom. My dad worked for the family business, which was a 2 heating and air conditioning company. I actually didn't see him very much. He was gone before 7 AM and then he was home by 7 PM. He did try to engage a bit, like take me fishing and stuff, but I didn't like that. Growing up, I was very into what they call the ‘feminine stuff’, but my mom was very supportive of that. I guess who really helped to do a lot of the work growing up was my grandparents—my dad's mother and then my mother's parents. They met a lot of our needs and babysat and my sister and I a lot. They indulged my interests. They were pretty accepting. My dad's mother, she was the one who bought me the Barbies and dress-up clothes and stuff like that. My mom's parents were kind of begrudgingly accepting. For example, I loved witches, and they're like, “Well, here's a wizard statue instead of a witch,” so stuff like that. But then, when I was 12, the dynamic went bad, I guess you could say. My parents, before my sister was born, struggled with alcoholism. When I was 12, they started drinking again and then started fighting. By the time I was 13, they divorced. It was a very messy divorce. Really shortly after, my mom got a new boyfriend, remarried. It was my stepdad, mom and sister. That was not a pleasant dynamic. My stepdad, though, was very accepting of me being gay, which was nice. He just kind of kept to himself. He was quiet. I really didn't have a relationship with him. We barely even talk to each other. We just kind of kept their distance from each other. That's the basics in my family. IO: You mentioned your family history in Ogden. I would like to ask, what is your family history in Ogden, and how did that affect your own life as well? 3 RB: Let's see. I believe it’s my great-great-grandfather who came from England to Utah, or it's his father who came here. They even have a little pioneer certificate on their gravestone, which was cool. IO: I didn't know that's a thing. RB: It's a little golden stamp. They've actually been in the Ogden and even Harrisville area ever since the late 1800s. I’ve just grown up in Ogden my whole life, and I kind of get defensive about Ogden, because people like to look down on it or call it ‘ghetto’ or even say people from Ogden are trash. Throughout my life, I've gotten very defensive and combative trying to fight that stigma. Family history wise, the majority were Mormons, but by the time my parents were teenagers, they left the church. My mother even got her dad, who was a Catholic, to help get her removed from the church. I don't even know the terminology because I'm way removed from the LDS culture, if you want to call it that. So that's been kind of interesting, because even the neighborhood I grew up in was like Episcopal, Pentecostals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholic, stuff like that. I didn't even grow up in a Mormon neighborhood. I had one LDS friend in elementary school/junior high, but we didn't talk about anything like that. I didn't even know what LDS culture was like until I met my friend Elle in my twenties, and she kind of told me all about it. IO: Let's go a little bit further back to your childhood. When would you say you first felt different from others? RB: I would say probably around third or fourth grade. It was more so a funny story because I had a lesbian cousin who was an adult, and I was in third grade. On 4 the way to school, I asked my mom, “What is gay?” She told me what it was, and in my mind I was like, “Oh crap, I'm gay.” Then I kind of put it away forever, until junior high. But as a kid, I was just myself, and I didn't feel different or any shame about it. I know I was very outgoing, and once again, kind of feminine. I liked fairy tales and fantasy and witches and Barbies and stuff like that. That was fine until about 12 years old. That's when I was like, “Oh, I'm different.” That's when I started feeling shame about who I was and my interests and stuff like that. It was more like a retrospective feeling different. Yeah, up until 12 years old, I was like, “Oh, I'm fine. I'm normal. It's all good.” FC: Did your local community have a lot to do with the shame feeling, or was it more internal? RB: It was actually internal. Like I said, through my childhood, it was fine. My dad did make me feel, not embarrassed, but he basically said, “Oh, you're too old to be playing with these dolls.” But then I threw a complete tantrum and chucked all the dolls into the back of my closet, and to calm me down, he was like, “Oh, no, it's fine. Never mind.” Just that one time. Once I got to 12, 13 years old, it was an internal thing. I was comparing myself. I was like, “Oh, these boys are doing this, they look like this. I don't meet that standard, so there's something wrong with me.” So nobody actually ever bullied me as a kid. Also, my mother's parents, they were like, “Hey, maybe you should get other interests instead of this fantasy fairytale stuff.” That did make me feel bad. 5 FC: Being able to bend the traditional gender roles as a kid, like being able to play with the Barbies and the witches, do you think that helped shape you? Did it have a really big impact? RB: Oh, totally. I think so. The witch thing—I'm a Wiccan, so that stuck with me through my whole life. I have a five-year-old niece and I kind of spoiled her with Barbies. Nowadays, I feel proud that I've been able to do things that my gay male friends weren't able to do. They were extra suppressed or shamed. I'm still expressive and I like stuff like that nowadays. IO: I don't want to draw any conclusions before I ask any questions, so what were you taught about gender and sexuality roles growing up? RB: I think my mother was very liberal with a kind of do what you want attitude. I picked up things just in the background, like women are homemakers, because that's what my grandmothers and my mother were doing. But I noticed my mom felt suffocated in that role, so I noticed it's maybe not the healthiest thing. I noticed she wanted more in life than just to be a stay-at-home housewife. Being stuck in the home with the kids kind of drove her crazy. I feel like I saw the roles, like ‘women cook and clean and do this, and then the men go out and work,’ because I come from working men who do sheet metal and heating and air conditioning and welding and construction. My whole life, I thought that was kind of gross, like, “No, I can do whatever I want.” I was always a little rebellious against that because my grandparents wanted me to mow the lawn, when my sister was the one who wanted to do it. I'm over here wanting to be the one to be the little homemaker, if that makes sense. So I saw 6 the roles, but I just didn't internalize them. I kind of rejected them. I will say, I did still benefit from them. Even today, like holidays, my Grandma will cook and do all that stuff, and then I get to sit and enjoy it. I pitch in with the dishes nowadays. I guess subconsciously, I did internalize by letting the girls in the family do all the hard work. Even when I was a kid, my dad was like, “I don't want you in heating and air conditioning. Go do something else.” I feel like I didn't have any expectations put upon me. It comes to sexuality. Once again, my dad is okay with me being gay. He's not okay with acting feminine, if that makes sense. He doesn't care who I like, love, or marry. It’s, “Well, still act masculine.” Sexuality in general, my mother was more like, “Do whatever you want, just use a condom,” basically made me aware of the risks and stuff. Also, I know people talk about issues with sex education, but at least in my junior high and high school, I had a really good sex ed. If anything, I wish I had more education on healthy dating because I have found myself in a lot of toxic relationships. IO: Was the sex ed in school? RB: Yeah, my junior high and high school classes. It was pretty good, more than what my mother gave me, because my mom was really more like my dad, he didn't give me any talk. It was my mother basically, “Do whatever you want, just be safe, use protection. Don't get an STI.” Funny enough, she didn't tell me not to get anyone pregnant, because she kind of… I don’t know if it’s the best to say, “Oh, we knew they were gay the whole time,” but that is kind of the attitude my mother and grandmother had. 7 IO: Yeah, we do hear that now and then. People are just expecting it. You may have covered this talking about your cousin, but what was your first exposure to queerness? RB: Yeah, my cousin. I was in fourth grade. She was having issues with her parents in Arizona for being a lesbian, so she went and lived with my grandma in her basement with her girlfriend. I was in third grade. I was like, “Oh, there's my cousin, and that's her girlfriend.” I don't remember thinking it's weird or questioning it. Like I said, I asked my mom, “What is gay?” She told me, and I was like, “Oh, that's me,” and then I kind of forgot about it. That’s the first and only exposure that I can think of until I reached junior high. I didn't think anything of it. I was like, “Oh, that's just my cousin's girlfriend. Okay.” IO: That's really nice. Is there anything you'd like to say about junior high and how you worked with your identity at that point? RB: It was traumatizing. Junior high was horrible because my parents divorced and it was really messy, like a lot of domestic violence, so I was depressed from that. Then I had to move out of my childhood home to a tiny apartment; I was depressed from that. Identity-wise, I didn't even realize I was gay or what I was thinking or feeling. I literally had a crush on this guy in my history class, and I didn't think, “Oh, I'm gay.” I just was like, “Oh, this man is amazing and gorgeous and all this.” It was more that I felt like this nerd loser who wasn't cute or attractive. Everyone else is popular and has extracurricular activities and friends and a big friend group, stuff like that. That was what I really struggled with. I had no self-esteem whatsoever. 8 IO: Did any of that change in high school, or was that about the same? RB: High school, you could say I became goth. I went that direction. I became friends with all three of the goth girls. Then I became more secure with my friends, and I didn't need to be part of the popular kids. By then I was out of the closet and I was open, like I wore rainbow wristbands. I was more like, “This is me. I'm going to do what I want.” By high school, I was more sad and depressed over the lack of a love life. Everybody got to date, go to dances with people. I was like, “I'm not going to go to a dance with the girl. I know who I am. I know what I'm doing. I'm not going to compromise myself.” That was the struggle in high school, dating. IO: At that point, would they have even let you go to a dance with a guy? RB: I think so. I went to Bonneville High, and I don't know if that means anything, but it was more open. Even the school newspaper did a little dating personal thing and found the one other open, out gay dude and had him put a personal ad, so that was in the school newspaper. From my memory, I think they would have let same-sex or same-gender couples go to the dance. Actually, one time, me and two guy friends—just friends—tried to go to a homecoming dance. They didn't let us in because of the dress code; we didn't have ties. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure they would have let us. I dunno, it's a good question. The impression I got is it would have been allowed. IO: Growing up, was there any like external media representation that you remember about queer people? 9 RB: As a kid, no. I think I was 13, flipping through the channels, and I saw this movie from the 80s. It was in the middle of the night, too, and I was like, “What is going on here?” It was amazing. It is still one of my favorite movies. Another time, once again, I was 13 and just flipping through the channels. MTV At Night did some anthology show, and there was one or two episodes with gay couples. I remember watching those on YouTube. I know one book series that I loved by Holly Black had a gay character, and that really meant a lot to me. Until I was a teenager, as a kid, I didn't know—outside my cousin—what gay was. I didn't know gay people existed. I wasn't even taught if it was right or wrong. With my mom, that little speech, the impression was, “It's okay,” but it really just wasn't something even talked about. IO: Do you know the name of that book? RB: Oh, it's called Tithe. IO: Perfect. We love having resources for other people. RB: It's about this girl who finds out she's secretly a fairy, and then her best friend's a gay guy. IO: That's cute. So, have you lived outside of northern Utah? RB: I've traveled nowadays, in my late twenties. But no, I was born and spent my first 13 years in South Ogden. Then we moved to West Haven and then back to South Ogden. Then we ended up moving to central Ogden, between Harrison Boulevard and Washington Boulevard. I stayed there for the majority since I was 16, and I literally just moved to West Haven, March of 2021. Between 16 and 2021, I've just been in the heart of Ogden, by the Ogden Cemetery. 10 IO: Okay, I know where that is. You mentioned Rainbow Gardens. You said you worked for them. When did you work for them? RB: I was 18 to 28. When I turned 18, I literally got a job there. I was there for about ten years. I left in 2019 and I started in 2009. That was cool because there was a smaller gift shop attached to it called Planet Rainbow, and that was owned by a gay couple. My manager was a gay guy, and we've had a lot of LGBTQ+ people work there over those ten years. So for ten years, I was in my own little queer bubble. Even before then, coming back to the question of exposure to gay media, I do remember being young, between 10 and 13, and going into it—because it was a bookstore at Planet Rainbow there. I saw books about gay marriage and queer topics. I was looking over my shoulder, scared someone's going to walk in and see me, and my heart was racing. I flipped through the gay marriage book and stuff like that. That was another exposure. IO: Seems like it was pretty quick out of high school. What did you do at Rainbow Gardens? RB: I started just as a cashier. I don't know the exact timeline, but after three to five years, all the other managers and staff left, and I became the manager. My official title was Merchandise Manager and Display Director. I did all the displays, set everything up for the holidays, took inventory, restocked things. I ordered merchandise. We worked a lot with local artists and authors and jewelry makers, so I helped select merchandise and art and stuff. 11 IO: You said you were there from 2009 to 2019. So during that time was the marriage equality Supreme Court case. Was that something that affected the people there? RB: Oh yeah. It was wonderful because my bosses, they had been together since 1996, maybe 1998. When it became legal in Utah, they ran right to the courthouse. I remember it became illegal again briefly, and then when it became legal again, they did this big wedding. Of course, they made it rainbow-themed. That was cool. It's kind of a moment of celebration for all of us there. The manager at the time, he officiated the ceremony, and he was another gay guy. It was cool. IO: Yeah, that's really nice. You said it was called Planet Rainbow? Did you work directly in that shop? RB: Planet Rainbow is the store. We rented that space from the Rainbow Gardens Corporation. Robby and Richard are that the gay couple that own Planet Rainbow. I like to think of them as gay grandpas, cause once again, no relationship with my dad or stepdad. I loved my grandfather, my mother's father, but he died in 2014. They were like the male role models in my life. My mom helped—I won't say helped me get the job, but she helped to initiate it and everything, because she worked at the Rainbow Gardens itself. She basically wanted me to have gay role models, if that makes sense. One time, my boss, I think it was Robby or the other gay manager—his name is Don. I think both of them said, “Oh, we're examples of what not to do. We're like anti-role models.” But they were just joking. 12 IO: Did Robby and Richard leave while you were there, or did they stay and manage? Because you said some people left. RB: Oh, they were the owners, so they were there. When I first started out, Don was one of the managers, and after maybe one or two years, he left. Then the guy who officiated the ceremony, he left probably shortly after that, so maybe 2015ish. Then we had another guy step in for a very short amount of time and then he moved to Florida, and so I was left. It's probably the last four or five years I was the acting manager. Robby came in every day, and he mostly worked in the back on Rainbow Gardens projects. I had almost free reign—him and Richard approved the orders and I just got their approval of things. IO: It seems like it was a very inclusive environment. I want to know basically what the day-to-day was. Not job details, but working with people who came into the shop, if you have any stories. RB: I've got so many it's hard. We had a metaphysical department and that was a big part of the business. We actually had tarot readers and psychic readers there almost daily. Day-to-day, it was mostly their hijinks, like, “Come feel this crystal,” or people coming in like, “I need a crystal for this or this. I need to open up my throat chakra to communicate with my husband.” “Here's a throat chakra tea.” It was a lot of messing around with the crystals. We had a crystal room, and the readers often gave the employees readings and that was fun. A lot of the readers were like, “Oh, you need to grow and expand your gifts,” stuff like that. 13 We did a lot of events, which was fun. We did reader events with all the readers, and then we had local author book signings. What I really liked about Planet Rainbow was just kind of how I felt. Part of the community was just being involved with local authors, local artists, and then the people who just made jewelry or random things. Day-to-day wise, it was quite stressful. I complained a lot because the last four or five years, I was running the show, and it was difficult. My bosses, they could be a little frustrating, as much as I loved them. I don't know, that's kind of it, just playing with tarot cards and crystals. The non-metaphysical customers, it was just not just families, but people in their late thirties and their young children coming in buying souvenirs, a lot of people staying in Eden, Huntsville, Liberty area, coming down for lunch. Then you got the older crowd, and they're just like, “Oh, I've been coming to Rainbow Gardens since whenever,” because the building had been there for decades and decades and had gone through different incarnations. That was another thing, a lot of people coming in and being like, “Oh, I swam in the swimming pools here. I bowled in the bowling alley here.” I got to hear that constantly. I was like, “Yeah, my grandparents bowled in the bowling alley, too, and my parents were in the daycare here.” My family has literally spent a lot of time there since the sixties, and I ended up there. Hope that that answers the question. IO: Yeah, it does. 14 FC: You talked about not having a lot of external representation in junior high and high school. But as you got older, while you were working at Rainbow Gardens, you had your gay grandpas, so you had a couple role models. Did you find any more external representation, a more supportive community? Did you have an icon? RB: I did pursue media, a lot of movies, but a lot of it was more the sad, tragic gay films. Not really icons. FC: Any other role models? RB: When I was 21, I met a friend who at the time was identifying as a gay male. They were the best role model, and eventually they inspired me to be my best self, leave behind the party lifestyle, go to college, do greater things than just being a cashier at Rainbow Gardens. They'd eventually transition and they're still my best friend to this day. That's the only other person with great positive influence. Otherwise, I don't know. I still love watching gay and LGBTQ films and TV shows. IO: Before we move on from Rainbow Gardens, I'd like to ask, how explicitly was Planet Rainbow a queer space? RB: I feel like I took it for granted, and that's hard to say, but I don't know. Robby was loud and proud. We had him running through the store telling stories about being gay in New York and Paris back in the sixties and seventies. We had a pride section, just rainbow merchandise and stuff like that. But we weren't overly like, “Hey, this is a queer friendly space.” It was more of the culture that employees 15 and coworkers had. It was such an eclectic store, especially with the new agey stuff, that diverse customers would come in and just enjoy the space. IO: My next question, and you kind of answered this a little bit, but were there any especially positive or negative reactions to it being a fairly liberal queer space in northern Utah? RB: Not in my memory, we didn't have any problems. I can't think of anything. Nobody. No protests, no unkind words. FC: Can I expand that question to not just the Rainbow Gardens, but Northern Utah? Was the Northern Utah community, growing up or even now, very welcoming or the opposite? RB: Welcoming of? FC: Just being queer in general. What was your experience being queer in Northern Utah? RB: I will say, I had a lot of privilege and lived in my little insulated bubble. Once again, I kind of just took it for granted and I never had any negative responses. That's because, once again, I stayed in my little bubble. I didn't hang out with too many conservative people or communities to even experience any negative reactions. I had made my friends, my family, my community. Coming to Weber State, in my late twenties to now, I haven't felt anything unwelcoming. Weber State feels pretty open and accepting. That's one thing I do like about Ogden. I won't use the word ‘liberal outpost,’ but Ogden's very artsy. I used to use the word hipster a lot. I used to say Ogden is a caricature of what people think people in Portland are like. I feel like Ogden itself is so diverse that 16 the only time I do feel weird or uncomfortable is if I go out in the suburbs, like Clinton or Clearfield or North Ogden, and I'm like, “Oh boy.” This last 4th of July, I went to the Huntsville event with one of my best friends, because he grew up there. It was just weird to see just all homogenous white. I'm not going to make assumptions about religion or being conservative, but I compared it to The Stepford Wives, we’ll just say that. Versus when I'm in downtown Ogden, we've got people of color, homeless people, we've got people of different socioeconomic status, we've got people with tattoos. I have always felt fine and open and welcomed, at least in Ogden. FC: The dynamic of Ogden, can you feel that it's different than other places in Utah? RB: Yes. Ogden, Salt Lake, yeah, but if I go to Taylorsville or Clinton or even Roy, West Haven, I feel suffocated. IO: I kind of want to ask questions about the prevalence of the LDS church in Utah and whether or not that's affected you. It seems like at least growing up, it hadn't had too much of an impact. RB: Not that I can remember. Whatever systemic things it causes in Utah, that affects me, but personally, I can't really think of anything, unless they're influencing legislation and stuff like that that would adversely affect LGBTQ people. I will say, like as an institution, I don't care for it, like as a whole. The Mormon family members that I have, even then they're kind of like, “Oh, we'll drink coffee and smoke and drink.” They're kind of the naughty Mormons, and they've always been fine and nice. My grandma, who's LDS, she's the one who bought me Barbies and accepted me and had my boyfriends over for dinners. When it 17 comes to the LDS church, I don't have a personal beef or interaction, nothing overtly positive or negative. I guess I’ve noticed that they like to get married very young. I went through a period where I felt like I'm becoming an old maid, but now I'm over that. I don't care. Maybe that's what it is, is the culture of having to partner up with somebody. I feel like that was kind of affecting me, making me feel like, “Oh, I'm incomplete unless I find somebody.” Over the last few years, I just threw that out the window. IO: Let's transition to talking about how your identity grew and developed, post-high school, during your adulthood. Also your family dynamic, if that has affected it as well. RB: Well, my mother's been pretty consistent—open, accepting, and she's just very proud of everything I do. Like I said, I don't really talk to my dad or step dad. Since I left Rainbow, I really don't talk to Robby very much, which is kind of sad. Richard passed away. Adult life, I need a moment to think about that one. I'm in a place where I'm just going to be myself and be open. I do want to maintain a sense of professionalism, because there is a large part of my personality that I feel is unprofessional. That's being human. Going to Weber State, and I work here as a tutor, I feel like I have to maintain a facade. I feel like I can't be truly my total self. That's just for the sake of me being professional, if that makes sense. Otherwise, in my personal life, I feel very liberated. I do get quite angry and combative when I feel like I'm being judged or even questioned or. I kinda 18 got that little fiery fighting spirit. That's just the spirit I have nowadays. I'm just going to be myself and I do what I want. If people have problems with that, I will tell them to deal with their problems. IO: You said Weber was fairly accepting as an institution. Are there any specific ways that you felt it's been particularly good or bad? FC: Or ways that it shows you it's accepting, if that makes sense. RB: I feel like having the LGBTQ Center, which has now merged with the Women's Center, was cool, having the presence of the GSA. Just the vibe I get from my professors and instructors—my boss, up until last semester, she had the safe space pink triangle taped to her office door. It just got old and icky and that's why it's removed. My boss, I don't know what she's done, but I know back in the day she helped LGBTQ presence on campus. I wish I knew the details. I feel safe to write about queer topics for my papers and stuff. FC: Would you mind me asking the name of your boss at WSU? RB: Claire. I'm a Sociology major, so I guess in the Sociology department, we're all very social justice, social advocacy, help the gays. As for anything negative, I've heard like other people say, they've had some poor experiences or issues with professors and pronouns or stuff like that. I do feel bad when people whose deadnames are still legally their names come into like the tutoring center I work at. It's on the computer, and we want to use their new names. I would like Weber State to make it easier for people who have their preferred names. They've done good with the pronouns, like now we can put our pronouns up on our Canvas. But I wish there was a way to make people's chosen names more accessible and 19 more prominent in paperwork and stuff, because socially in-class, instructors have been wonderful about it. It's just in the computer system. That's all I can think of. IO: Faith, do you have any questions before we move into the final slate of questions? FC: Roe v. Wade just passed. It's just a current issue, and you don't have to talk about it if you don't want to. We're asking to see how people feel about it because it's really current. A lot of people are feeling it right now. RB: It is upsetting. Me and all my friends, I'm pro-choice, but at least with my cis gay male friends, they're kind of…I don't want to say they're making it about them, but they're like, “Oh, this sets a precedent to take away our rights too,” instead of actually focusing on women's rights, if that makes sense. That's just kind of been the dialogue in my circle. To be honest, I just feel powerless. That's the biggest feeling I have. I don't know what to do, and I just feel powerless about it. IO: Is that affected at all by being in Northern Utah? RB: I just feel like the systems that are in place and the people in charge there, we can't just snap our fingers and dismantle it. I wouldn't even know how to begin, putting new people in power. That's why I just feel powerless to make change, to be honest. FC: I know all of Utah congressmen just passed on something political, but they allowed the marriage law. IO: I don't know exactly what the law is called, but the Utah congressman, it was unanimous. 20 FC: Have you heard about that? RB: I did. That was hopeful, but once again, I'm just worried about abortion access. I feel like people with lower socioeconomic status, the children will be born and it'll just promote more poverty and just overpopulation and stuff like that. FC: From an LGBTQ standpoint, how do you feel about Roe v. Wade? RB: I don't know. I just want people to be able to have abortions. That's all I know. FC: Just thought I'd ask. IO: Before we move on, is there anything you'd like to add to your story, or anything that you may have forgotten? RB: My love life has been a journey and a hot mess. I've dealt with quite some weird and difficult characters, and I've put up with a lot of crap. I'm 30, I'm going to be 31 in October, and I'm in a much healthier, happier place. I feel like that's one thing I wish I had more resources or education about: dating and being aware of abusive people. I wish I knew more about power dynamics, and I wish I had more self-esteem to be like, “No, I choose my happiness and my success over being with toxic people who will bring me down.” IO: I don't know if there's anything more specifically you'd like to say about relationships. No pressure, too, but that folds really well into another question: what would you want to say to a person going through a similar situation? Also, I'd like to hear your thoughts on what you'd say about toxic relationships. RB: If I’m saying to someone else, “I think you might be lonely, you might want love, but don't destroy yourself or your life in trying to pursue that love. Don't be with people who destroy your mental health, emotional health, and your financial well- 21 being just because you want to be with a partner. It turns out it's probably not even true love or like. Don't settle. Know your own worth and value.” IO: I'm thinking these answers may be similar, but is there anything you'd say to your younger self? RB: Oh, well, the same thing. I’d tell myself, “Go out and actually do things in the world. Get accomplishments that build yourself up and empower yourself and make you feel accomplished. Have some self-esteem.” IO: If this project continues, would you be okay with being re-interviewed in the future? RB: Yeah, totally. IO: We don't know what this project is going to be, but we would love to be able to check in. Thank you.