Oral History Program Colonel Edward L. Thorsted Interviewed by Robert A. Ross 30 June 1980 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Colonel Edward L. Thorsted Interviewed by Robert A. Ross 30 June 1980 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. 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Ross, 30 June 1980, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Colonel Edward L. Thorsted. The interview was conducted on June 30, 1980, by Robert A. Ross, in Ogden, Utah. Thorsted discusses the changes in the military service over the last twenty-five years. RR: Colonel I am mainly interested in what you think the major changes are that have taken place over the last twenty to twenty-five year period, but before we begin, could you tell us something about your background, like when and where were you born and what you can remember about your early childhood. ET: I was born on September 14, 1918, in a little three room house in the back of a lot at 472 second street. We lived in this house until I was the age of five and then we moved into the present home that still stands after it was completed. There wasn’t much to do in my early childhood except the chores around the house and of course growing up with several neighborhood people and attending school with them. I attended Lincoln Elementary through the eighth grade, Mound Ford through the ninth and tenth and Ogden High School through the eleventh and twelfth grade. I did not go on to college at that time. Beginning in my school years at Mound Ford, I started working in a grocery store that still exists there at Five Points under the name of Wansgards. I worked in this store up until the time I went into the Military Service. RR: What year did you go into the Service? ET: I entered the service August 12, 1941. I entered or enlisted in the regular Army even though the draft was coming in. I felt that I would rather go in voluntarily other than being drafted. So I enlisted in the Ordinance unit that was at that time at Fort Douglas, Utah. On the thirteenth of October I went to Fort Douglas and found that the ordinance unit I had 1 enlisted for had moved to Boise, ID and there was no father vacancy, so I was given the option of accepting a position in the Ordinance unit in the Hawaiian Islands or the Philippines, and when this choice was given I indicated that I had rather not leave the United States so soon. So it was indicated to me that I had scored high enough on my entrance exam to reenlist in the Army Air Corp. So I reenlisted on the 13th of August in the Army Air Corp. I was sent immediately to Jefferson Barracks, Missouri. I was at Jefferson Barracks, Missouri for a period of a month to a month and a half. During this time I was recognized along with seven or eight others of having completed Junior ROTC. So they placed us in a casual position and we actually took over the control and the drilling and organizing the new draftees that had come into the unit. RR: Do you remember what your pay was at that time? ET: When I entered the service the first month’s wages were considered twenty-one dollars a month. Now six dollars and seventy cents of this twenty-one dollars was withdrawn to pay for insurance, then up to fifteen dollars was for laundry and dry cleaning and other things that were needed. We were given the opportunity to purchase PX chits in the amount of five dollars per book, and there were many months there for the first six months that I did not draw any money across the table because there was none coming. But the end of six months, however, since we were in the Air Corp unassigned and we were promoted to Private First Class and made thirty dollars a month. Now from the beginning of this time at Jefferson Barracks, Missouri. The organization was such, they were controlled almost completely by the NQOs, because were very few officers available, if I recall correctly, there was one lieutenant that was in command of three flights, what they were called at that time at Jefferson Barracks and each flight was controlled by a First Sergeant. The 2 other NCOs ranged from Corporal on up to what we called Buck Sergeant. I left Jefferson Barracks, Missouri with a large number of individuals on a troop train. That took us to Macer Field in Sacramento, California. I was there for about a month to a month and a half and then we were sent up to Victorville Army Flying School to activate the air base. The unit that went up there was the 86th Air Base Group and it had three Squadrons. Each Squadron was commanded by a lieutenant and each squadron had a First Sergeant and again there were very few NCOs other than the technicians that were brought in there or that were assigned because of their ability to work on air craft. During this time I was placed in charge of an entire barracks of recruits. The NCOs that were there had separate rooms and I had nothing to do with them. But the reminder was my responsibility to get them up in the morning, give them physical training, march them to breakfast and bring them back and make sure they were all turned over or moved out to their various areas that they were assigned to. We had a barracks inspection daily and whenever anything was found wrong of course it fell back on my shoulders and many times threatened that my stripes would be removed if things didn’t shape up, so it was a matter of my forcing all the people to do their work. The discipline was administered by the NCOs and the First Sergeant told us not to come crying on his shoulder, that the back side of the supply room was the area and may the best man win and so this was the way we controlled the people. RR: You were still only a Private First Class, drawing thirty dollars a month. ET: Private First Class drawing thirty a month, and of course I was given a position in the post headquarters as my daily assignment simply because I was able to operate some of the administrative equipment that they had. Mainly a hand operated, memo- graph machine. So I was taken in by a Tech Sergeant, he made me his assistant in the post message 3 center. This consisted of the two of us plus seven civilians, eventually I became the Chief clerk of the message center because of my ability to control the seven civilians and in fact the Tech Sergeant was moved out to another Air Base. But until that time I had progressed in grades from Corporal to Buck Sergeant. Then I had one of the officers there at the headquarters ask if I felt like I wanted to go to the Officers Administration School, he felt that I had the ability and there would be no problems and I was to summit my application and he said they would also consider sending me to the aviation cadet school. I indicated that I would feel better by going to the administrative part, than going to pilot training in grade, so they considered that. I submitted a letter to Washington, but I had to submit three choices. I indicated Air Corp administration, second was Infantry and I don’t recall what the third one was. But within a weeks’ time from the time the letter was dispatched I received a, what we called a red edge letter indicating immediate action and that I was to report to Fort Benning, Georgia to the Infantry School to attend the Officers Candidate Course. During that time I was advance to the grade of Staff Sergeant, so I was Staff Sergeant regular Army and obtain this within that short period of time. I remained in that grade through the OCS course and it was original class of 74 that I attended at Fort Benning and graduated in 1942, in September of 42. I left there and came home on leave as a Second Lieutenant and assigned to Camp Pickett, Virginia, where the 3rd Division was located. My first assignment was as a Platoon Leader in the Anti-Tank Company of the 15th Infantry of the 3rd Division. RR: This was at Camp Pickett, Virginia. ET: Camp Pickett, Virginia. RR: Do you remember what your pay was as a Second Lieutenant during that time. 4 ET: Offhand I don’t recall, I figure close to around five hundred dollars. We trained in a short period of time at Camp Pickett. Than one night we all moved out and boarded ships that were in the harbor in Virginia. There was an entire Battalion on the ship that I sailed on along with continuants of the Air Force. They were ground control units along with other types of organizations, mostly Signal, and it was aboard the USS Thurston. We sailed for several days and the rumor was we were going down through the Panama Canal going around over to California. This rumor existed for a few days longer until one morning we moved out to the deck to have our physical training aboard the ship and we looked out and found five Aircraft Carriers on the sides of us, that surrounded us, several Cruisers and of course Destroyers in the distance. That same day we received information that we were going to make a landing. Ariel photos were issued to each of the units and all the officers were briefed thoroughly and we in turn had to brief our platoons and the landing that would take place. The exact place was not given as far as name was concerned. So we studied the photos and the beaches and everything and of course we prepared for our landing. One morning we were awaken by heavy gun fire, which was from the battle ships that was firing on the enemy as far as we knew and then the units started over the sides and moving out toward the shore line in the landing craft. This was the initial landing of Padilla French Morocco by units of the 3rd Infantry Division. Now the battleships that I mentioned were battling the French battleships that were in the harbor there at Casablanca and they also leveled a lot of the facilities at Padilla because the Germans had started building emplacements right down on the waterfront. As our unit, the first wave went in, we were preparing to move in because we had the anti-tank weapons. We were starting to load while one unit had already hit one side of the beach and we were 5 moving in on the other and as the first unit on our left hit they were taken under fire by some shore batteries. The USS Agustia, the Commanders, may have been the President’s personal ship moved in between our landing craft and the beach and opened up with salvos from their eight inch guns and blew up the whole mountain or the hill side where all these emplacements were. So that stop the firing from there, but the small arms and other fire continued for quite some time. So we landed on the beach and started reorganizing. The Company Commander and the XO had to move out on a recon, so the company was turned over to me. So I had to organize them and move them out on foot less our weapons, because when they loaded them, because of inexperience they put the antitank weapons in a place where they had to be taken off last. They was no way to take them first when they were needed. So here again we gained some experience. We moved on down toward Casablanca, as we arrived on the hill side ready to engage the enemy at Casablanca. General Patton’s forces had moved up from the South in the south end of Casablanca, so we converged on the town and it surrendered without any firing there other than they had located some of the observers and some of the firers in the high buildings and churches there and they were ready to level those, we received word not to fire on them. So we merely pulled back and organized perimeters around the ammo and equipment that came in. This remained for several days until we received word that we were to move through to one of the other towns there in the French Morocco. Then we marched right by the city, in column, in cadence, we moved right on out to Quarts Forest Areas that were about ten miles beyond the city. Here, we trained for several days and then we moved onto a little port called Port Lobito and at this time we heard rumors about the fighting up in Tunisia and heard further that the 9th Division and other units, I believe 6 it was the 1st Division up there that sustained a lot of casualties. So they ask for volunteers from the Divisions units to go up and replace those that had been lost in the Tunisian campaign especially in the Cesarean area. So I volunteered and over half of my platoon volunteered as did many of the others from the other platoons and from the other organizations, the Rifle Company’s, the service units and all. So we were placed aboard the old French Forty and Eight cars, and passengers cars and we were taken by train all the way up to the Tunisian area. It was in a little town just outside Cesarean that the American forces had made their last stand against the Germans and had stopped them. So we had the opportunity to reorganize and then start moving out with the replacements to the 9th Division, not up to full strength, but sufficient members to move out again ready for combat. So we moved out. At the time we volunteered the Company Commander of the Anti-Tank Company of the 15th Infantry, 3rd Division had ask me to join him in the organization we had been assigned to and it was the Cannon Company of the 39th Infantry of the 9th Division. So when we arrived at our destination of course we moved out to the Cannon Company area and found about a third of their equipment and there were twenty seven people that had survived the Cesarean battle. Most of the individuals that were able to get out, they were walking around in bare feet because their feet had swollen so much from their walking away from Cesarean that they were unable to put on their boots, but they were finally able to put on their equipment and with the new replacements we moved out and our first move was into the Cesarean area. This area was the German battle ground for the German Panzer units and they were still out there moving in various directions trying to throw the American forces off as to actually drive again. So we lined up the 105s, 55s connected on to our Cannon Company weapons which in my platoon 7 consisted of three 75 howitzers on halftracks. From there the other units whatever large weapons were placed at our side making a continuous line across the valley and the Infantry was brought in and put in front of us about fifty yards in front of us and we were supposed to repel a Paneaer drive down through that valley by firing direct fire at them with howitzers that only had high explosive shells. We had no anti-tank ammunition of any kind and we were to do the best we could. We remained in position there for a few days and then moved on out into the El-Gacar area. I would like to point out that the food and all that we were consuming along in these areas were the types of rations' that the government had set up. We did have the "K" ration, we did have the "C" ration, but it consisted of very few items, so you really didn’t have a choice on what you were going to eat. It consisted of a lot of can goods that the American could find on the grocery store shelves. We were organized well enough with cooks and all they furnished a fairly balanced meal for us. RR: Did you have any disciplinary problems back in those days compared to today? ET: We didn’t have any problems, I mean everyone seem to know that they were there for a purpose and it was just a matter of suggesting that this be done or let them know what we were going to do and it was just a matter of moving out. RR: No questions. ET: No questions; I was very fortunate at the time I joined this unit that the driver that was driving my jeep in my platoon, which of course was my mode of transportation, he was a fellow that was at least ten twelve years older than I was and he had been married and his wife had divorced him, and so he really didn’t have any ties and therefore he really didn’t care what happened, all he did was follow instructions and his name was Kitchens and all 8 I had to do was say let’s move out and give him the directions that we were going to move and that was it. Well we had a rough time at El-Gatar trying to get into position and we had to move in at night because the Germans had the entire ally covered by 88s fire and when one of our vehicles appeared in the day light where they could be spotted they were usually knocked out, so we had to move in this fashion and we moved into the valley at night and into position. We had a rough time because we were exposed to the German observation all the time we were in there. The only thing was they didn’t have the high angel weapons in sufficient numbers to hurt us much other than firing mortars on us. The 88 fire would come between my tracks and I didn’t have any one killed in my platoon, but I had several that were seriously wounded because of the fragments from the 88s and carelessness on the part of the individual for not closing the back door of the track. The armor on the tracks deflected a lot if the fragments, but when they left these open, because we were in a hurry at times to get on a fire mission, we lost people to their wounds. We moved on out finally took the area and moved put and on down to the Gulf of Guyvies. Once this was over with I was reassigned along with some others to the G-3 Section of Allied Force Headquarters at Algiers. This was a more of a stationary assignment involving headquarters type operations. Looking after the companies, we operated the facilities within the city and the one high light of this area was one time I was walking down the street in Algiers and had two soldiers salute me and I saluted back and took about ten steps and turned around and said Gee that looks like my brother and about that time he turned around and I found that my brother had been assigned, he was in the Air Force at the time and assigned out at Mazon-Blannh which was a big Air Base outside of Algiers. So we had a happy reunion, but he was moved later on and relocated and I 9 eventually ran into him again. We really didn’t have any problems with the enlisted men in this type of operation they seem to be content, of course things weren’t really bad at that time other than the Germans tried to bomb the area quite often, there were some losses, but very little at this time. Of course we had a lot of power in this headquarters, simply because of our assignments and we had to requisition and operate and keep things going, it was very interesting seems I had more power as a second lieutenant in the early days than I had in later years because by virtue of the position. I left Algiers with a company of Infantry to Naples, But not in the initial landing but we moved in and by then Naples was secured other than there was a lot of bombing going on by terrorist there for some reason. We move on out to Gaserta inhere the main Allied Headquarters set up their operations along with the Chiefs of the Air Force and all preparing for the movement north in Italy and eventually the invasion of southern France. We were there just a short time and I was designated more or less as a project officer to fly to a little town of Astain to set up the headquarters for the invasion of southern France, this was under the title of Headquarters Final. And of course everything was top secret, everything that was prepared was under the title of Headquarters Final. Well we organized in a little school on a hill overlooking the town of Astain, this is where the 6th Army Group commander MG Devers took over the command and the preparations of the invasion of Southern France. We remained there for a period of time during the organization and of course and on the main land to the east of us the battle continued there North above Rome, because we circled Rome. The main movement was just north of Rome at that time. We got the word to move to a designated area on the tip of Corsica and prepared to move on the invasion. This was still Headquarters Final operation until the mail and all that indicated the 6th 10 Army Group. Somewhere along the line and started passing mail earlier than the announcement of the time on the invasion of Southern France. But I had responsibility of the Headquarters Company again, I was the XO of the HQs Company of the 6th Army Group. There was a Captain that was in command and he was an alcoholic and he spent most of his time with the bottle. This was rather common in the service at that time. I didn’t mention that the time I was at the Baker Field Army flying School, this Tech Sergeant that took me under his wing and showed me the ropes in the Message Center had a fifth in his desk drawer that was always replaced as soon as the others were drained. There were many times I had to take him down and put him to bed or if he went into town and passed out somewhere I would have to go in and get him and the same thing occurred again in the situation with the Company Commander, so I really had to except more responsibility than I ever had before because the Company Commander was under the influence most of the time. So I moved the company over and put them on the tank landing craft which was in the bay and at the time designated we started moving out. At the time we were in Bastia I was able to get my brother out of the Air Force into the Army and assigned to Headquarters Company so he was working with me at the time. I had chosen a personal friend, who was a cook, he was to become Mess Sergeant and he became close friends with my brother so they went aboard the ship earlier than I did and when I got aboard, I was in charge of the ship because I was the ranking officer. As we were getting ready to sail a storm come up and it was considered the worst storm that they had in about thirty years. The landing craft had no shield on it so they just rolled from side to side. After the landing craft I was on had rolled from side to side almost tipping over. I went out to try to find my brother and I couldn’t find my brother or the Mess Sergeant or any of them. So we 11 started looking everywhere in the water and different places and I finally found the two of them plus a lot of the other soldiers that had moved up into the cabs of the 2 ½ ton trucks that we had on the decks. So, we set sail and the waves and the swells was so big that the landing craft would go through one and extend about half way out into another and it would just bounce up and down on the end. They were unable to cook any food aboard ship, because the ovens wouldn’t hold it, the doors kept opening and all the food would go flying out on the floor. So we had to resort to cold rations. Eventually we landed in Saint Jean De Luz France and we moved on up the, what we called the rone of the valley on up to Di Jon, La On on up to Vatell where the final Headquarters was set up for the direct drive on Germany. At this time because of the hours and hours that I had spent in school and out working trying to keep things going I developed pleurisy in the left side and hospitalized in the field hospital and eventually I was evacuated through the hospital system southern France, Marci and boarded one of the hospital ships, one of the President Liners on back to Staten Island hospital in New York and eventually out to Madigan Hospital at Fort Lewis, Washington. All this time that I was exposed to the service in combat and assigned to more like garrison duty, we had no problems with the troops. I do not recall any of them being AWOL and I do not recall any drastic action that ever had to be taken. RR: After the Madigan Hospital did you get out than or, ET: No I was given sick leave, I was able to be up and around, they allowed me to go home on sick leave and at that time I married the young lady that I was engaged to. We took advantage of the thirty days leave and then I reported back to the Madigan Hospital with my wife. We found a little place to stay up in one end of Tacoma, up near the big park that 12 they have there on the Puget Sound and all I had to do was get up early enough to get to the hospital and in my bed before the doctor made his rounds and once the rounds were made than I could leave. I was released and assigned to the redistribution center at Santa Barbara, California. Where we spent two wonderful weeks in some of the largest hotels in that area, golfing, horseback riding, fishing, you name it, everything was available. From there I went to the Second Corp Headquarters under assignment and it was a camp down near Mineral Wells, Texas. There I was assigned as XO of one of the companies. It was a training unit, training the draftees for movement to the South Pacific. I was on limited service at the time and hadn’t fully recovered from the pleurisy. I was given a position in the Headquarters of the Second Corp. I was to go there as a personnel officer and report for an interview, but I was paying troops at the time so I was held back in reporting so another officer with the same MOS was excepted and so I had to take another assignment so I went out into the prisoner of war camp in Arkansas detailed as an MP officer. I worked in this area for a few months and during this time my wife’s parents, her Mother especially become ill and they requested she come home and help out even though she had brothers and sisters right there in the area so that left me alone back there so I become undecided about a further career. When they announced that people would be released under the point system and I found that I had the double the number of points to be released so I felt since my wife was not there and there wasn’t much I could do. I felt that the situation at that time was not conducive to any further education whether it was in the military or civilian. So I decided that I would get out. So I was released from Camp Joseph P. Robertson in Arkansas. That put me out in the spring of 1946. After I arrived home I found that jobs were available and all. I accepted a position at the Williams Candy 13 Co. I started training as a candy maker. All this time I was in the service from the time I was in Europe and the time I was married I was very fortunate I was able to save quite a bit of money. So we were more than able to pay more than half down payment on a home and we were able to obtain it at a low rate of interest and of course this was an asset to me in the future. Even after I started working at the candy company I was contacted by the department of the Army to assist in organizing reserve units. I was given names of many individuals that had previous service that might be interested in it. I do not recall the other individual’s name that received the same information that worked with me: at that time, but we were given facilities at the Defense Depot in Ogden. We contacted as many of the people as we could. We organized the training as well as we could, eventually it was organized into the 3rd Battalion, 383rd Infantry of the 96th Division. I remained in this Reserve Unit all the time I was working at the candy company. At the same time I was doing some work up at the Weber State College which at that time was a two year college and I also attended a business college and gained experience in accounting and learned how to type. I continued on at Weber State for as long as I was in the area. However in the spring of 1950 or maybe the early summer months I was contacted and ask if I would like to come back on active duty filling an instructor position at Ogden High School ROTC Department and I gave this considerable thought since I had already now become a civilian and working and learned a skill making candy, which was at that time a good profession, but we decided we were not traveling like we would like to travel and the pay at that time from the time I had been released had increased and it appeared that it was a good move to go back into the service. So I submitted my application as requested and I reported to Fort Douglas, UT. and of course I had to be interviewed by the Commander at 14 that time which was a Colonel French and all I remember at that time was a hand reaching thr6ugh the door grabbing my hand and shaking it and welcoming me to the organization. He had learned that I was a format member of the 15th Infantry and also of the 39th Infantry and we had discussions there about individuals that he knew and that I knew and of course the interview was quite lengthy, but it was just discussing people that we knew and of course when I went out the door he said he was sure that I would like my job up there and that was really all that was done other than completion of the papers. So I reported to Ogden High School in September and started working with the people that were on duty at that time. The person that I worked with he was considered the PMS at that time was Major Max Moore. He was a decent of the Prussian type family members, the traits and characteristics were there he was the type that displayed military bearing at all times, he was a very good person to be with and to work under especially starting on active duty again. We still hear from them. He is long retired and an accountant in a little firm down in Lauderdale, Florida. Well I was here in a school that I had attended and actually the students that were here were sons of people that I knew personally. So it was quite an experience here and of course being on this type of duty there were no problems really, there were about five sergeants that were here, all professionals and carried out their duties without any questions, they did not cause any problems. The only problem that we had was when they brought in another officer, another Captain from Salt Lake City, he was an alcoholic. Here again I was faced with a situation working with an officer with him drinking quite a bit and many days absent from his position so we had to cover this area. Then after having being here for two years and of course the benefits were growing the pay had increased and we felt good about this having purchased a home and 15 all and we were seeing things a little clearer at that time. It looks like we were going to progress and not be held back because of the wages. But after completing the second year I received orders from the Department of the Army sent up through the State Department that I was to report to Saudi Arabia as an advisor. When those orders came through I received a call from the G-3 at Fort Douglas, Utah, and he racked me over the coals, told me that I couldn’t do things like that, he wanted to know who I knew back in Washington that had the power to pull me out of my position like this and send me on that type of assignment. I assured him that I had no knowledge of any one back there that even knew me, possibly one reason that I was chosen for that job was the fact that it was recorded on there that I refrained from alcohol and because of my church association and all and they felt that this would be a good place for me to go. We received systematic passports under State Department and only seven of us who were the original people that arrived there were under State Department. The rest of them were under regular assignment, orders and all, they did not carry the same type passport. I completed my duty in Saudi Arabia and was assigned to the 44th Division at Fort Lewis, Washington. I was to report there in September of 1953. I came home and got my family and we moved right on to Tacoma, Washington, located there and I was called in by the Regimental Commander and he indicated that I needed some command time, but he had a place on the staff there in the regiment for me and as soon as I had organized and directed the company the way it should be run. Once this was accomplished than I would be given a staff position. So I was assigned to A Company of the, I don’t remember what was the 123rd Infantry, well any way the 44th Division was the Illinois National Guard and they had moved up from either Camp Roberts or Fort Hood and they were just barely started 16 organizing when they were inactivated and the unit was re-designated the 2nd Division. Now, at this time was the first time I had ever run into a lot of disciplinary problems, cause Company K of the 3rd Battalion had eleven AWOLs and two deserters on their records and of course one of my missions was to go down there and organize and of course where possible change the moral to the point where they would not be going AWOL. Well this situation was a little different possibly than some others had experienced but the fact that we had quite a few Indians from the nearby reservation assigned to the company and they felt that every payday they had the right to go home. They would go home with their money and of course be gone a couple days longer than they should be but they usually returned and that was the AWOLS that we had. This was the first exposure to the drug addiction that existed and I had one negro fellow that I guess that had gone around the long way and used every type of drug and he reported in and we worked with him, but they wouldn’t take him into the hospital, they said it was our responsibility to watch him and take care of him. So I had to post a guard every day or especially at night to observe him to make sure that he didn’t receive any types of drugs. Well, I would observe him during the day, talk to him and there would be periods of time he would be so restless that he couldn’t even set down on a chair and then one morning I came in I found him real calm, not withdrawn but in a frame of mind that he would accept anything and of course we learned that he had received his drugs and yet he received no mail without our inspection, we knew what he was doing every minute, but somehow or another he got his fix. Some of the other AWOLs we had in there were using pot and then there was a lot of stealing going on. So all these areas existed when I took over and that I was confronted with. Now I didn’t completely stop all this, but the rate dropped, we carried those people 17 that had already been AWOL, they came back and were sent for short terms in the guard house and eventually returned to the unit. I was assigned to the Battalion Staff as the S-3, which was my first step in the staff assignment. We did an awful lot of training division size on down to the Battalion and company size training down at Yakama firing ranges. These individuals were exposed to a lot of extreme cold adverse weather conditions of all kinds down there, but it seem to me that they were always willing to carry out their assignments. It was very seldom that I even had to administer an article 15. When I moved up to the staff position, of course I worked at a little higher level but I was out amongst the men a lot and they still seem to accept what was required and they had very few problems. When discipline was required it was a stiff penalty in many cases through the courts martials, summary courts were used quite often, only the special and general courts were used for those violations that required the individuals to pay for the consequences and in many cases a discharge from the service or sentence to a few years in the federal penitentiary. Still there were no real major problems in the Infantry. I was amazed. Thinking back on the times that we had that there were very few problems. There was a lot of stealing and of course there were a lot of organizations that were trying to obtain military weapons so their contact had been in the military units there caused a lot of weapons to disappear and of course we were put on the carpet for this, but investigations were completed and things were checked out. Later on before we moved to Alaska, I was placed in position at the S-2, I worked in this area for quite some time and then we moved to Alaska. I was G-2 in the Yukon Command Headquarters. We were actually a branch of the section or the Command Headquarters from Anchorage at Fort Richardson because the Yukon Commander was the deputy. So we were there for three years and again there were 18 problems. But the discipline problems were not that outstanding, because of the courts that were convened for this purpose. The men seem to enjoy it up there even though the winters were extreme, we had to move about on skis and everything that we accomplished as far as the field training was concerned and any other types of training like that they seem to enjoy it. While I was there I went back to Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. Here I completed special courses in Nuclear Weapons so that placed me in a position to receive a prefix 5 on my MOS which was a Nuclear Weapons Employment Officer. While we were in Alaska I had requested advisory duty at Fort Douglas, Utah. I received the assignment, so I moved the family back and I went on to the advance course at Fort Benning and from there back to my position as advisory to several of the units there at Fort Douglas. Here again not exposed to a fully organized active unit, we had enlisted advisors some of them I would not have kept on active duty had it been my responsibility to change it, because of their qualifications, well not necessarily their qualifications but because of their military bearing, their appearance and all they were rather relaxed in their personal things. This is about all I was confronted with. Then I was sent on TDY to Tooele Army Depot, I think this was in 1960 to set up the Reserve Training Camp for the Reserve Forces under the ordinance corp. This was a great opportunity and the relationships there with the civilians and the military people that have lasted through the years. It gave me a better insight on the other services. On the completion of this assignment I returned to Fort Douglas and as soon as my tour was up at Fort Douglas, I was sent to Korea to the 7th Infantry Division, I was assigned to the G-3 Section as the divisions training officer and I worked in this position again working with enlisted men and the people on the staff and all were highly qualified people and I never really witnessed any problems there, 19 there was some that were fraternizing with the Korean girls in the villages and things like this, but really the types of things that could occur really didn’t. From there I was supposed to be assigned to the University of Utah to be on the staff, but the orders were changed because there was a demand for field grade officers in the first division at Fort Riley, Kansas. So, my move from Korea on New Year’s Day of 1965 to report to Fort Riley, Kansas. Assigned as deputy G-2 of the division. Here again I was exposed to staff and to the commanders, I spent a lot of time down in the units, but here a- gain the discipline was not much of a problem at least it didn’t surface. Now it may have been down in the companies and held there because I never heard of any. From that assignment I gained a lot of experience by going out on joint maneuvers as the G2 Air and return to Riley and within nine months I was on my way over seas a= gain to Vietnam. My assignment there was not down at the company level, I was in a position as the Security Control Officer in the tactical area of operation for the division. So I had to work a lot with the enlisted men again assistants with in the section plus a lot of individuals that was eager to go out and help constituted a security force. I really never heard much comment about their being there because everything seemed too plentiful. The food, all the necessities from the PX and the time that they were involved just didn’t seem to be much of a problem. Of course now all through these years the pay increased again it looked like it was going to be a good living. But on completion of my assignment I felt that it was time to get out. I indicated this prior to even going to Vietnam and the division wanted to retire those officers that were due at that time rather then sent them to Vietnam, but the Department of the Army said they are a great asset to the unit because of the knowledge, skills and that we would go. So I spent my time over there and came back and retired. Now the position 20 of the DAI here in the Ogden City School District had already been set up. I knew the superintendent and I had written to him and of course the public law was passed in 1964 that changed the program authorizing the use of retired personnel to fill the positions in the Junior ROTC units. So when I arrived home after retiring I had to wait until the month of May or June of 67 before the position was open here in the Ogden City District. At that time I filled the position and been working in this area ever since. RR: So the major changes that took place between the time you went in 1942 up until now has been in the pay, type of assignments, and duties. ET: Yes, I think the field s as far as education and all broaden enough that they’re quite a difference from the time that I entered. When I got out in 46, from then on it seem to be a greater interest in the individuals in the service in gaining an education and this was pushed more by educational standards in the various openings that they had as far as schooling was concerned. One of the big benefits of course from my entire service was that I received the GI Bill to go back to school. Even though I had over the amount of hours I needed for my BS degree. I had to go back to Weber State College in order to get the formal degree. I received my BS degree then with about two hundred and twenty or thirty hours. I received my degree in 63, that’s the formal degree and then I reentered the college of education at Weber State after sitting through eight hours of written examinations and about three hours of oral examinations in order to enter the school and I was accepted in the school of education to obtain my teaching certificate. The money was still available then and I continued on and I received my Master’s Degree from BYU and I was working in The doctor program until I was notified I had to change our major in order to obtain my doctors degree because there was to many people involved. That 21 stopped most of us at that time. Since I was doing it for my own benefit, it had no bearing on my position here because I had enough military education and civilian education that I really didn’t need to go on so I just dropped it. So I was within twelve hours of my doctor’s degree. RR: Colonel, I thank you very much for this interview, This tape will be on file at the Weber State Library and will be available to anyone that’s interested to sign it out and listen to it and go over the transcript. 22