Oral History Program Alta Roskelley Interviewed by Marci Farr 14 July 2008 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Alta Roskelley Interviewed by Marci Farr 14 July 2008 Copyright © 2009 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in Special Collections. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The Dee School of Nursing was founded in 1910 to provide training for nurses who would staff the new Dee Memorial Hospital. The first class of eight nurses graduated from the school in 1913 and the school continued to operate until 1955, with a total of more than 700 graduates. A new nursing school and home located just east of the hospital was completed in 1917 and all nursing students were required to live in the home during their training. This oral history project was created to capture the memories of the school's alumni before their stories disappear in the same way the Dee Hospital has disappeared. The oral interviews focus on how the women became involved with the school, their experiences going through training, and how they used the training. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management Special Collections All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Alta Roskelley, an oral history by Marci Farr, 14 July 2008, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Alta Roskelley Application Photo 1936 Page from Alta Roskelley’s Nursing Scrapbook 1933-1936 Alta Roskelley September 10, 2008 Abstract: This is an oral history interview with Alta Roskelley. It was conducted July 14, 2008 and concerns her recollections and experiences with the Dee School of Nursing. The interviewer is Marci Farr. MF: This is Marci Farr. We are interviewing Alta Roskelley at her home. It is July 14, 2008. Alta could tell me a little bit about your early life and your family growing up? AR: I was born and raised in Smithfield, Utah. My father was a Japanese interpreter and field man for the Amalgamated Sugar Company. My mother was a homemaker, wonderful gardener and florist—very artistic. I had one older sister and three younger—one deceased at birth. My parents lived in Utah until 1942 when my father was transferred to Idaho. MF: That is wonderful. AR: I had a very normal childhood. I was taught to work. Many friends, neighborhood activities, ballet, music and church functions enriched my life. MF: That is good. Tell us about your early education and along with that your decision to become a nurse. How did you decide? AR: I attended elementary school and junior high school in Smithfield and graduated from North Cache High School at Richmond, Utah in 1931. I finished high school the same year as my older sister because I had skipped 7th grade. Because resources were not available for both of us to enter college in the fall of 1931, I was compelled to stay home while my sister continued her schooling. I did not have employment, nor did I really have any idea of what I wished to do, except try to keep up with my friends. My Uncle, Hazen B. Daines, MD, 1 was starting a practice in Smithfield and my mother offered my “free” services to help him with his office. There, in addition to cleaning the office, making appointments, answering the telephone, my Uncle taught me how to assist with medical procedures that could be done in the office. I fainted only one time. One day a man walked into the office for an appointment. In our conversation he said “You ought to be a nurse.” I replied that was something I could never do because I could not stand the sight of bleeding. This started me thinking that it was perhaps a means of continuing my education and getting along with my life. The idea was discussed with Uncle Hazen, who endorsed the possibility. He had interned at the Thomas D. Dee hospital and knew the nursing school was accredited. With his help I applied and was accepted. MF: That is great. Did you have any contact with the members of the Dee family? Did you know Maude or any of them? AR: Not that I remember. I did know Elizabeth Stewart. She was a wonderful advocate and friend of the nurses. She sponsored many of the activities of the Dee nurses alumni. Our reunions and annual meetings were enhanced by this wonderful lady. MF: You just knew Elizabeth Stewart? AR: Yes. Elizabeth Stewart. MF: Was there anything that you had to do before you entered the Dee School of Nursing? AR: Only the application as I recall. We did have to have money for uniforms and perhaps some equipment. I know my Uncle gave me $40.00 to buy uniforms. I 2 was accepted for the July 1933 class without any problem that I recall. I had good grades in high school. The only thing I worried about was being so far away from home. I was very homesick the first year. MF: I am sure. That is hard. What was your first impression once you got into nurses training? Was it what you expected? AR: I had no idea what it was going to be like. Everything was completely foreign to me and it was hard for me to adjust to the routine, the surroundings and being confined. MF: That is true. You could not go any place you wanted, right? AR: No. MF: You could not leave. You had to do your shift and get in, right? AR: Yes. We were on duty for eight hours and then went to classes in between. MF: Did you take classes at the hospital or did you go to Weber College for them? AR: We took most of our classes at the hospital but we attended classes at Weber College as well. We would all put our capes on over our uniforms in the winter time and walk from the hospital to Weber College on 25th street. MF: Tell me about some of your classmates and your friends. AR: My roommate was Ortis Pettingill from Willard. We were together until my senior year when we moved to the cottage. Mary Virginia Anderson was my second roommate. Then we were split up. Verle Baker was another very close friend of mine. She graduated from high school the year after I did at North Cache. We had a very congenial class, a group that was very close. We had a lot of fun together. Inga Jensen was another one. There was June Lowe, Ione Lawrence, 3 Merle Williams, Alice White, Afton Grow, Vernell Hansen, Ronnie Stringham, and others. I had friendships from other classes as well. MF: Tell us about some of the teachers that you had, and your supervisors. You had mentioned a few of them. You knew Annie? AR: Yes, I knew Annie Hall. Other teachers and supervisors were Mrs. Ruth Mumford, Ann Gibbs, Louise Scoville, Miss Miller, Lucille Taylor, Ethelyn Johnson, and others. Annie Hall was in the surgical unit when I was there. I did not have a great deal of contact with her except in surgery. Surgery was one of my favorites. MF: Was it? AR: I always had this little story. Dr. Dumke used to do thyroidectomies. He was always complaining about something with this surgery. Of course, most of the physicians did if you did not work fast enough. He told me once, “You are the first nurse that knew when to give me the drain.” MF: You were one step ahead of him so you could give it. AR: Well I learned the procedure I guess and he complimented me for that. He gave me a box of Whitman’s chocolates I remember, which he did very frequently while I was in training. MF: That is great. You said your work schedule was seven to seven but you did your eight hours on and you had four hours for class. You had night duty, correct? AR: Well we had night duty but I had trouble with this assignment. I am a sleepy head. I would get sick every time I was assigned night duty; the first of which was the nursery after just 4 months of training at the Dee. 4 MF: Really? AR: I would get an infection or be ill and I just could not finish the term. Of course my classmates did not like that at all. They thought I was really something else. I finally made it through one term of nights in the 3 years I was there. MF: That you were not sick. AR: Yes, in three years. MF: Your body was trying to get used to that. AR: I could not seem to do it. I could not adjust. MF: Did you have a roommate? AR: Yes, one roommate. We had a very nice room. To begin with, when we were Probies,(on probation) we were in the basement in a dorm situation. Then we moved upstairs to a room. MF: After your probationary time. AR: Yes, after our probation. We really had a nice room and a nice area in the nurse’s residence to receive our guests and to get together. MF: That is good. Do you remember across the street there was a gas station called…and there was a little confectionery store—Hogge’s Confections? AR: That belonged to my Uncle, but with a different name. MF: Really? AR: My Uncle was Raymond Hendricks. I do not know whether he started the business but I know that he was the owner when I was in nursing school. He was married to my Aunt Laura. She died when I was a freshman, of a blood clot following an appendectomy. 5 MF: My friend Catherine Hogge and her husband Elmer; I do not know if they bought it from your Uncle. They must have. AR: Could have been. MF: They must have done that because I know that they took over. I do not know when it was, in the late 1930’s. It might have been after you were gone. AR: It was after I left. Because my Uncle was still there when I graduated. MF: That is very interesting. AR: On our breaks, we would go over there, sit, have a drink and talk to them. My Aunt and Uncle lived right across the street from the nurses’ home so I was over there every time I could get away. After my Aunt died, my Uncle married Cecille Wright before I graduated. Cecille was charge nurse on the medical floor my senior year. We are still very close even though they moved to California. My husband and I visited them many times before and after Ray died. Cecille is still living at 97 years but not well. MF: Is that the one you said was a supervisor? AR: Cecille Hendricks, yes. She was a charge nurse. MF: Tell me about your typical day, what responsibilities you had during the day when you were on your shift and then with your classes. AR: I remember that we had patient reports each day. We were assigned patients to take care of in all the different areas. Do you mean the procedures that we did? MF: Yes, what you had to do. You had to do your rounds, right? You had to do your records. 6 AR: Yes. We had to learn to print. We had to learn to chart and do it right and make it understandable. We took care of the assigned patients all during the time we were on duty. They would rotate us once in awhile to different floors. Sometimes you would get a pleasant patient and sometimes you would get an unpleasant one. MF: One that was ornery. AR: Yes. MF: During your training you became skilled in all areas of the hospital, is that correct? AR: Yes. We were required to spend a specified amount of time in each service. There is one thing I remember about maternity. Echo Berry was the supervisor. We had a little preemie born, who was about five months gestation as I recall. MF: Really? AR: Miss Berry wrapped it up with the instruments and I took it into the service room. When I was cleaning up I realized that the child was breathing. MF: Really? AR: Miss Berry immediately took the baby to the nursery but it did not live. It was a tiny, tiny fetus. I will never forget that experience. MF: I am sure that would be hard to witness that. What did you usually do on your day off or a night off? What did you do for fun? AR: We would get together. We had a lot of parties. There were always a lot of planned parties. One of the interesting things that happened during the time I was there. I cannot remember how many times. Lindquist’s would bring their 7 hearses and take us up in the canyon for parties and outings. Everybody went all out to do what they could for the nurses’ entertainment. MF: That is great. Did you have Lagoon days? AR: I do not remember that. MF: While you were in your training, what were some rules you had to follow? AR: Be on time. Follow the doctor’s orders very carefully. Of course, we had supervision as we were being taught all the time that we were doing it. In the service rooms we had to clean the bedpans and we had to take care of all the beds and cleaning that was done after a patient was discharged. At the time, I thought it was very normal and it was at that time. We had to do all of the service work related to taking care of the patients. We did have orderlies who did heavy cleaning. MF: So you had cleaning plus nurses duty. AR: Yes. And they were very strict about that. If you did not do it we were punished in some way. We lost priveleges. MF: Did you have a curfew? AR: Oh yes. At ten o’clock. We had to be in by ten on week nights. Then we would have a late night… MF: For the weekend? AR: I do not remember exactly. I think it was not later than 11, maybe 12. MF: Yes. AR: If you wanted to go any place out of town you had to get special permission to do that. 8 MF: So you could not just leave? AR: We had to sign out and sign in. MF: It was pretty closed campus, right? AR: Yes. When I was a senior I wanted to go to a military ball in Logan and I had to get special permission to be out late. On returning, I had to sign in at the hospital with the night supervisor. MF: Were there any traditions at the Dee Hospital while you were in nurses training? AR: I do not remember any specific ones except capping exercise, Junior prom, and graduation. MF: That is ok. AR: One thing, we had to go to church. We had to report our attendance every Monday morning before going to our assigned duty for the day. MF: Yes, you were required? AR: Yes, we were required to go to church and we had to report on Monday morning whether or not we went with the roll call. MF: Did most of the nurses go? AR: I think we did more or less. I know I missed some church meetings and it was unpleasant to report No. MF: Yes. AR: I know I missed some. MF: Because you worked on Sundays. AR: Yes, also when I did not choose to attend. MF: What was your graduation ceremony like? Tell us a little bit about that. 9 AR: If I can remember it. I think we went down to the old tabernacle. MF: Yes. AR: As I recall, we dressed in our new uniforms and marched together to 22nd Street and Washington Boulevard for the graduation ceremony. My family attended. MF: So just off of 21st street? AR: Yes, but I do not remember for sure just where it was. It was quite an event. Of course, it was thrilling to get in a white uniform and have your cap, your stripe on your cap. MF: What about the capping or the pinning ceremony? Do you remember anything about that? AR: We received our nursing caps after probation at a church house North and West of the hospital—perhaps 21st St. and Monroe—I do not recall. MF: That is alright. What did you do after graduation? You said you were with public health. AR: About one month before I graduated LaVerna Peterson, supervisor in Public Health, had arranged an interview with me. I remember sitting in her sister’s home which was not far from the hospital. She asked me if I would consider working in public health. I had wanted to do everything that I was working at. If I was on OB I wanted to do that. If I was in surgery I wanted to do that. Lab—I wanted to do that. I wanted to do everything except medical. I did not like medical. I was hired and after completing my requirements at the Dee, I started working the 1st of August 1936 in Cache Valley. MF: Did you spend your career doing that? 10 AR: Yes. I worked in Cache County for ten months. Then I was asked to go to school. I went to the University of Washington for one year and got my PHN certificate. After completing my school there, my fiance’ came up and we were married in Tacoma, Washington and took an extended honeymoon before we came home. Then I came home and worked in Ogden from July 1, 1938 until about September of 1940. My husband, a reserve officer, had been called into the military. He had been gone for six months and his assignment had been extended, so I resigned and went to join him. MF: Where was he transferred to? AR: At that time he was in San Pedro, California. We traveled throughout the U.S. after that. I stayed with him all during the war, except for occasional separation due to special assignments. I taught Red Cross classes in several locations where we were stationed. MF: All during the war? AR: Yes. MF: When you got back did you continue with your nursing? AR: We had our 2 children during the war years. My husband was discharged from the Army in January of 1946. I worked in Layton, Utah at a Mexican labor camp clinic before moving to Richmond, Utah where my husband was employed by Pet Milk, and I relieved for vacations in Cache Valley. Then we moved to Buhl, Idaho, and I did not work for awhile. In 1953 I was asked to work as a school nurse. I did part-time school nursing for ten years. 11 Then we moved to Idaho Falls, Idaho. I started as a public health staff nurse there and then became supervisor and later Director of Physical Health for seven counties there. I retired there in 1979. We moved to Ogden in November of 1990 to be close to our daughter who lives in Bountiful. MF: Your first time in Ogden was on 25th street? You mentioned that. AR: I worked in a special public health demonstration program. I think I have an article about it. It included the Polk elementary school. MF: Is there an article? AR: I was assigned to a specific area to do a very generalized program. I think LaVerna was just experimenting to see how it would work. Then I helped set up a venereal disease clinic with Doctor Noall, city physician. MF: When did you retire from your career as a nurse? AR: 1979. I have an article about the retirement in here some place too. MF: What do you think was probably your greatest challenge being a nurse? AR: In training, it was night duty, which made me sick, and learning new procedures. In public health, it was a brand new field, and I had much to learn, and I didn’t like home calls and dogs. When I began supervising, it was hard to find qualified staff, and the job required teaching public health principles. In supervision, the thing I liked the least was dealing with politics. MF: Did you get paid while in training? AR: While we were in nursing school I think we received seven dollars a month. That helped me to pay for breakage or to buy new instruments. MF: Oh—so if you broke something you had to pay for it. 12 AR: Yes. Or if we had to have some new bandage scissors or something like that, we had to pay for those things. MF: You said your education…you went to Washington and you said you were in Philadelphia too? AR: Yes, for three months. MF: So you just continued on and received specialized training, right? AR: Yes. I also spent 6 weeks at Bedford Styvesant in Brooklyn, New York for venereal disease and one month at University of Colorado Hospital for premature infant care. In public health, I had many week-long workshops from University of Washington, University of Utah, and many sponsored by the Idaho State Health Department to prepare me for supervision and Director of Physical Health. MF: What changes do you think have taken place over the years as far as from your training to now in the nursing field? AR: I do not know about the training any more except that people get degrees. That is one thing I always wanted to do but I was never in a place long enough or had the opportunity to take time from work. It was not convenient. There was no college around or university around. I did inquire several times as to how many credits I had had because I did have University of Washington and Pennsylvania credits but I did not have enough credits for my BS. That is one thing that I regret very much. MF: Sarah did you have anything you wanted to ask her? SL: I just wanted to know if you had any stories when you worked down at the VD Clinic. 13 AR: At the VD Clinic? Oh yes. One that I remember particularly is that the prostitutes—at least one or two of them—always said, “Please do not recognize me on the street.” I was in uniform. We always wore uniforms at that time. If I was out on the street they did not want me to recognize or speak to them. Another time the madam was arrested because she had a positive test. They put her in jail. I went to interview her there and that was quite an experience. I do not remember the details but I just remember being there. SL: Was it Rose? AR: I really do not remember who it was. She was a very nice woman. She was very accepting of me and she was very cooperative. She was devastated. I do remember that. SL: How long did you work there? AR: I was only there after the clinic in the new Ogden City Hall opened and I cannot remember the date. I left in late September of 1940. It was interesting to talk with those young women. The minute they thought they were positive with the gonorrhea or other VD they left town. They would just disappear. SL: Did you work with any other doctors? Other than…I know you mentioned Zeke Dumke. AR: Oh yes. I liked a lot of the doctors. That was one other thing that was interesting to me in training. Although I wasn’t used to being a “servant.” MF: Yes. AR: We would help them on with their coats, walk behind them in the elevator. They would enter the elevator first—things like that. That was something that was very 14 foreign to me, plus one only answered questions, never offering comments inappropriately. I dated one of the interns and so did several of my roommates. One nurse married one of them. I had a good time. I had a good social life after the first year. I did not do anything the first year. I did not know anybody, was not interested in anybody, but I had some good friends and a lot of fun. SL: Were there a lot of girls that dropped out in your class? AR: There were quite a few. SL: Mostly for marriage reasons? AR: One of them got married while she was in nursing school. Of course, she was discharged. That was Rowena Stringham. She married a James. She did not finish when I did. She went back and finished later when it was allowed. I remember that there were two or three though who dropped out for reasons unknown to me. We started out with a fairly good class and then we ended up with 18 graduates. This picture will tell you. Most of us made it through. MF: That is good. AR: We had a good class. We had good teachers. The doctors taught a lot of our classes. I think the one I liked the least was “Materia Medica” because the pharmacist was teaching it in a very technical way. My lowest score on state boards was this subject. A lot of the girls in my class had to repeat their state boards because of that. MF: Did they dispense the medicines to you when you would go on your rounds or did you do it yourself? 15 AR: We had to prepare the doses ourselves unless it was just a tablet or pill. I kind of envy the nurses who are trained now because they get a degree and have a very general education. MF: Yes. AR: I certainly admire them and what they do—their knowledge. MF: Yes there is a lot to know. AR: Their specific training. Yes. MF: Yes it is. There is a lot to know. Well, I appreciate you taking time for Alta. AR: You are most welcome. MF: We appreciate your information and thank you for sharing your book with us. We appreciate that. Is that your pin? AR: Yes, that is my pin. MF: Is that what it looks like? AR: Yes. Somehow I do not know how we got our Red Cross pins—what we had to do to get that. I still have mine. It has to be turned back in when I die. MF: Really? AR: Yes. That is what somebody told me. MF: Wow. AR: There is our department registration. Let me put it in a folder for you. It will be easier to keep. MF: That was interesting to find out about the hospital and the history. AR: Oh yes. These are just cards. MF: That you have got. 16 AR: Yes. This is about our health day in Smithfield. We had fun. When I was a kid they had health day. We had to have 100% ok teeth. MF: Oh yes? AR: …in our schools and we would get a card. They invited me when I was working in Cache Valley to come and talk on one of the health days and that was fun. MF: That is great. Is this your nurses’ picture? AR: Yes. MF: At your graduation? Do you care if we copy that? AR: Oh no. In fact I need to take that out and copy it because it is just newspaper and it will not last. Here. I want you to take this one too. MF: That would be great. SL: Did you say you had an article about the clinic? AR: Yes. Let me see if I can find it. Where did I put—I do not know if it is in there. I know I found it the other day. I thought I had a picture of it. A picture of the old… SL: You said that was in the city county building? AR: Yes, in the new one. I have got a picture of the building. There was a story about it. Well, let me look for just a little bit. MF: You are fine. AR: I thought I had put it in here. It would not be there, unless it is when I came back. That is the university. Here we are. This is the later one. This is when I was working in that special program. MF: Perfect. 17 AR: I think it tells a little bit about what I did but I do not know that I—did I have—oh “city physician called to duty … doomed.” I thought I read it in here some place. Oh “there is a program for tuberculosis and venereal disease. It is expected this program will be instrumental in raising the health standards of the Quincy District to the highest in the city.” That is not what I…well, take it and use for whatever you want. MF: That will be great. AR: So I really do not have a great deal about that. I think I have just written about it. I do not know where it is. MF: That will be perfect. AR: But that was quite an experience for me. SL: I bet. AR: I will never forget that. SL: Did they come in to the clinic? AR: Yes. SL: Did you make any house calls? AR: They were required to come to the clinic every week. SL: Oh—every week? Not just even once a month. AR: Yes, and have an examination. SL: So this would have been before WWII. AR: Yes. You would not remember Doctor Barnes. MF: No. 18 AR: He was a character. He was practicing here in the area but he lived down in— oh, Layton or Kaysville or some place like that. He substituted for Doctor Noall one day. He said, “Those women have the cleanest interiors that I have ever seen. It looks to me like they have used a rotary brush.” I suppose they would be exceptionally careful when they came in and tried to clean up as much as they could so they would not have a positive test. It was quite an experience for me because I was sort of a naïve kid. MF: Totally different world. AR: Yes. MF: Where did you meet your husband? AR: I married a Roskelley. And I was a Roskelley. MF: Yes, I read that. AR: We were related. MF: Yes. AR: He was Eunice Carn’s brother. I met him when I was twelve at a family reunion. We got along really well but I did not ever see him after that until I came to Ogden. He was working here. He graduated from USU and came down here and started to work. I got acquainted with him. I did not go with him until 1934. MF: That is interesting. So you were a senior in the nurse’s training, right? AR: Yes. MF: That is interesting. AR: We were married almost 69 years before he died. MF: Really? 19 AR: Yes. MF: That is great. AR: Well, you ladies are doing a great job. I loved my career in nursing. I have been most fortunate to experience many changes in the medical field and the part nurses played in the scenario. Many unexpected opportunities came my way. The Thomas D. Dee Nurses Association has been a continuing part of my life. I enjoyed being with my classmates and the friends made. I am one of very few to live to be well over 90 years of age (1914-20??). So much of my life was spent in Idaho but the nurses association has been a link through all my life. I served on a state board and as president of district associations in both Utah and Idaho. I love and admire the profession—especially the knowledge and expertise of nurses at this time. 20