Oral History Program Richard O. Ulibarri Interviewed by Harold C. Bateman 10 April 1973 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Richard O. Ulibarri Interviewed by Harold C. Bateman Emeritus Professor of History 10 April 1973 Copyright © 2012 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Weber State College Oral History Program was created in the early 1970s to “record and document, through personal reminiscences, the history, growth and development of Weber State College.” Through interviews with administrators, faculty and students, the program’s goal was to expand the documentary holdings on Weber State College and its predecessor entities. From 1970 to 1976, the program conducted some fifteen interviews, under the direction of, and generally conducted by Harold C. Bateman, an emeritus professor of history. In 1979, under the direction of archivist John Sillito, the program was reestablished and six interviews were conducted between 1979 and 1983. Additional interviews were conducted by members of the Weber State community. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Ulibarri, Richard O., an oral history by Harold C. Bateman, 10 April 1973, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Richard O. Ulibarri 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Richard Ulibarri. Dr. Ulibarri served in several departments of Weber State University from 1965 to 2012. The interview was conducted on April 10, 1973 by Harold C. Bateman in order to gather Dr. Ulibarri’s recollections and experiences with the Institute of Ethnic Studies at Weber State College. HB: I believe, Dr. Ulibarri, that you became director of the Ethnic Studies Institute in July 1970 and immediately began to organize your ethnic studies program. Initially, I believe you had your offices in the old history professors' office building which has now been removed from the campus. Is that correct? RU: Yes, that's right, Dr. Bateman, I was originally with the history faculty in Annex 8. In January 1971 we moved into the present facility which is Annex 7 of this campus. HB: What are the future plans for your offices? RU: We don't have anything definite, although, obviously, more permanent facilities will be provided in the near future. HB: I wonder if you would say a few words about the faculty members that you initially appointed to positions in the institute. RU: I will be happy to. The first person that was hired by Weber State College in minority affairs beside myself, was Daily Oliver, who became the counselor for black students. Mr. Oliver is still with us at this time, and he is pursuing graduate work at the University of Utah, he does some teaching and is doing a fine job. Next we hired John Ulibarri from the public school's who became the advisor to 2 Chicano students. Mr. Ulibarri was with us for a year and a half, at which time he moved into an administrative position with Ogden city schools where he is now employed. Then we hired Vonna Breeze, who is an administrative assistant in the organization and also teaches English as a second language and is a very, very fine addition to our staff. She was followed by Richard Thomas. Mr. Thomas came to us originally with Project Respect, as a curriculum director and has remained with us in that capacity to the present time. Since that time we have hired Darnel Haney, who is a counselor for all minority students in all of the technical areas on campus. Marcia Galli is the advisor to Indian students and has been doing a very fine job with the Indian student organization on this campus. Dr. Gus Lira replaced Mr. Ulibarri and is now with us. Dr. Lira's degree is in psychology and gives us some very fine expertise for our organization. Finally we have Alfredo Pondo, who is a community relations man for us. We found that when this organization began, there was a vacuum as far as the community was concerned, and that we had a rush from the minority community for a number of concerns which they felt we could help them with. Our office became inundated, requiring the hiring of Mr. Pondo who does a very good job for us. So this is a quick run-down on all personnel that we have, Dr. Bateman. HB: That's very good. I wonder what administrative officials at Weber helped you in establishing this program. 3 RU: Well, the individual who certainly has given the most time and attention to this is the Academic Vice President, Helmut Hofmann. He was very sensitive to the needs of minority students and continues to be so and has been most helpful in all aspects of our program. I would also like to say that President Miller has also been very sensitive and as the chief executive officer of the college, of course, has had the prime responsibility and has been a very responsible man and has been concerned with this program. HB: Would you say a few words about what the ethnic program is and what the objectives are. RU: The Institute of Ethnic Studies has several goals. The first is to increase the number of minority students on campus and to assist them in getting their education. That is, we want to make sure that not only are the students here, but that we provide the kinds of intervention that helps them to succeed and to complete their programs. Consequently, we provide advising and tutorial help as we can afford it in order to assist as far as possible the success of the student on campus. Next we try to work within the curriculum, and within the college structure to sensitize the college community to the cultural differences with minority students, so consequently we have provided courses such as Black history, Chicano history, and other offerings that not only sensitize the college community, but also assist students in knowing who they are and giving them a meaningful self-concept. We also attempt to relate to the community at large in an effort to broaden understanding between the minority populations and majority 4 population of the local area. These are our goals; this is where we target our efforts. HB: You have some close contacts then with specific ethnic organizations in the community, is that correct? RU: We have contact. It is not direct. There is no liaison relationship as such, but we do attempt to relate to them in a meaningful manner. We attempt through responsible people to cooperate where we can with such organizations as the NAACP, SOCIO, which is the Chicano organization, and with any group really. We are not tied to organizations but we attempt to relate to the community. HB: Do you have any contact with Mr. Gillespie and the NAACP? RU: Mr. Gillespie served for a year and a half as a member of our Ethnic Studies Advisory committee. This is a committee which was established on campus to provide advice to the administration in minority affairs and it includes, in addition to the college faculty and administration, students and community members which means that we also have representatives from the minority community on this board, and Mr. Gillespie was a member of that. HB: I noticed that John A. Ulibarri resigned to become the Ogden city Ethnic Studies Program coordinator. Do you have any contact with his organization? RU: Yes, as a matter of fact, we were instrumental in helping the Ogden city school system work toward a federal grant for the initiation of this program that he is now heading, and we have been involved in teaching through that particular program in an effort to relate to Ogden city school personnel. HB: Do you have any in-service training program for members of your faculty? 5 RU: It is continuous in that all of our faculty are pursuing some form of graduate work. In addition to that, we attempt to provide help through the local scene here at Weber State. So, there is some in-service training going on continually for our people. HB: Would you give us a definition of ethnic and minority? RU: Ethnicity of course refers to national origin, but the word minority is often confused. The meaning could refer to any group that finds itself in a minority situation, as compared to a majority situation, in a particular area. But when we talk about minority in the United States these days, we are talking about four groups of people; basically these are Black Americans, Chicano Americans (also known by some people as Spanish Americans or Mexican Americans), and we are also talking about Native Americans or the American Indians, and Oriental Americans. So these are four groups of people which can properly be referred to as the American minorities... because they come from a different cultural background, they are not European in origin. Most other people in the United States are European in origin. It is the concept of the American melting pot, which you Dr. Bateman, as an American historian, are very well aware of. Well these four groups of people are minorities because they have not melted in the American melting pot process. HB: I doubt very much that the thought at the present time is desirous of entirely absorbing them. Is that correct? I think it has been in the past too much. RU: Yes, the program is directed to the fact that absorption has not taken place; in all likelihood will not take place; and minorities have no interest in it taking place. 6 What they want is for the country to realize that all people do not have to be alike: they don't have to look alike, talk alike, and act alike to be Americans. A person can be just as much an American if he is a black citizen as if he were a European transplant to the United States with blonde hair and blue eyes. The reality of the situation is that this country, in order to solve this particular problem, in our estimation, will have to do it through cultural pluralism, not by expecting everyone to become alike. HB: It seems to me that one of the most basic problems which we have is in the area of communication and understanding of each other and certainly ethnocentrism has no place in this program, I don't think. RU: You are exactly right. It's designed to cut down and destroy those elements of ethnocentrism which creates misunderstanding and bitterness between people. The fact of the matter is, as you suggested, there is a great deal of worthwhile culture to be found within the minority areas. And this should be preserved, not destroyed or absorbed. HB: Certainly in the contemporary scene it seems to me that what we are trying to do, certainly the anthropologists and the students of culture are trying to do, is to resurrect what these people have done, get it down on the printed page in the history journals so it can be saved. I believe that is the right approach. RU: I think you would agree that a person's self-concept, his feelings about himself relate to his traditions, to his background. One of the things we have found is that as a minority people have made an effort to become white that they have hated themselves because they couldn't be white. Good mental health seems to be the 7 ability to recognize that their traditions, their cultures, and their backgrounds are as beautiful, good, proper, and uplifting as anything to be found in the majority cultures. HB: I can't think of anything that's more nonsensical than trying to stereotype people with respect to the color line. But I know it certainly had been done and I think one of our biggest troubles is that people are suspicious of something they don't understand, and the cultures haven't understood each other. RU: That's where the basic problem is -- misunderstanding of that which is unknown, fear of the unknown. Our program seeks to link, or to be a bridge, between the different cultures. HB: I wonder what your thinking is concerning this business of communication between the majority groups and the so called minority groups. Is that one of our basic problems, to open up the communication? We may speak the same words, but they may not have very much depth of meaning. RU: Very definitely, and as you can well guess, one of the things that's required before effective communication can take place is for the communicants to be able to look at each other directly, not from an inferior-superior position, but from a position of equality. This is why it is so very important that minority students get an opportunity to attend college, to enter the professions and all other areas, to be in on the decision-making processes of this country. We believe that when this kind of thing has been accomplished, then people will be able to communicate on a direct level, not from an inferior-superior position. 8 HB: How are you proceeding to meet your basic objectives not just theoretical, but functional? RU: Well, we have entered into a small recruiting program and we have been able to increase the number of minority students on campus. We are continuing our efforts to provide the kind of help which keeps them here until graduation, and also provide a small placement service to assist students in finding meaningful jobs and so on. Toward the second goal I previously mentioned, we have made some impact on the curriculum of the college. We are finding that the various departments in many instances are very helpful in providing courses, either new courses or the integration of minority content into existing courses. So we feel that there are some changes being made on campus. One of the things that we have not made as much progress in as we might have wished would be in the recruitment of faculty members on campus. We hope that this will be increased as time goes on. And we are relating to the community and surrounding area. We provide workshops to business and industry and we are, we feel, making some meaningful progress in this direction. HB: What is being done to get more social interaction and communication between minority groups and the majority groups on campus? RU: One of the things which is being done, Dr. Bateman, is the emphasis weeks of the minority students on campus. They have been held every year and will continue to be in the foreseeable future. There is a Black emphasis week, a Chicano emphasis week, and an Indian emphasis week. This is to provide an opportunity for communication of a sort, to give majority students a chance to see 9 some of the cultural emphasis of the minority students, and this is a process by which they can begin to relate with each other in meaningful ways. We also have speakers that are brought on campus representing particular minority groups. These speakers provide appropriate models not only for the majority community to see that there are successful minorities, but also they provide important models for the minority students to recognize that they can be successful. HB: Do minority groups take just classes in the institute or do they expand as they get their feet under them? RU: We don't have that many classes within ethnic studies. We are not really interested in having a lot of classes in ethnic studies as such. We want the students to be successful in the regular college program, so they are like any other students on campus. HB: They take courses in the ethnic studies and other courses? RU: That's right. We have no major in ethnic studies and so most of their course work obviously has to be in the various fields. It's a slow process as all new programs are. And this one, of course, as you can recognize, has many problems that other kinds of programs don't have, but we are optimistic about our progress. HB: How are the ethnic groups on the campus responding to the program of ethnic studies? RU: They respond very well to the advisors and that's, of course, our main concern. Without a doubt, the advisors assist the students in their educational process in many, many different ways. I also would like to think at least that they take some 10 pride in the fact that there is an academic organization on campus to represent them. HB: I suppose your members of the faculty meet them in the classroom as well as in individualized, personalized conferences in their offices. Is that correct? RU: Yes, that is correct. HB: And what is the curriculum? What does it consist of? RU: Well, at the moment, our emphasis, as we noted earlier, is to make the student a success in basic curriculum and the only effort that we've made is in the areas which support the existing curriculum. HB: How many courses do you have, approximately, for each minority group? RU: Oh, we probably have across the campus only about six or seven courses for all of the minorities. HB: Do they meet as mixed groups or as separate groups? RU: They meet as mixed groups. We make no effort to stereotype our students into groups of color. HB: Are ethnic students prepared as well academically as the majority groups? I know that's an individual thing, you can't stereotype that on any minority group. RU: In general, you find that our minority students do not have the preparation that majority students do. For instance, the Indian students come off the reservation school or BIA schools where they have not received college preparatory programs as you get in most of the high schools in the state. Many of our black students come from ghetto areas, or from the South, and they do not come in as well prepared. The Chicano students, many of them come from migrant families 11 and have not attended school regularly for one reason or another. So in general, the students do not come in as well prepared as the average majority student. HB: It's more a matter of being underprivileged than a matter of ability. RU: Yes; there is no reason to think that there is any difference in ability, but there is a great difference in preparation. HB: Approximately how many students do you have representing each of the minority groups? RU: We have on this campus, 129 Chicano students, 85 Black students, and 60 Indian students. HB: These are sizable groups, aren't they? RU: Yes, and we expect that they will grow in the future. HB: Do you have very many of the Asiatic groups participating? RU: We don't have Asiatic or Oriental students participate in our program as such. There are a number on campus, a good number, but we do not have them as yet associated with our organization. HB: I suppose that the subject of religion is pretty much played down in keeping with the general policy of the college and the constitution, is that right? RU: Yes, we have no interest in religion as far as our organization is concerned. HB: These people receive their instruction in their own sectarian groups? RU: Yes, that's right. HB: Would you compare and contrast ethnic studies curricula with that of the so called establishment? 12 RU: Well, I don't see it as much different. You know, we've always had ethnic studies in our colleges and our educational system except that the ethnic studies of Europeans has been through English literature, which is definitely an ethnic studies course, but we're now trying to balance that with the American minority cultural approach. HB: You've indicated the student takes the ethnic studies program and it leads, along with the other college courses the student elects to take, toward a BS or a BA degree. That's correct, isn't it? RU: That's right. HB: Now do you feel the offerings in the ethnic studies is of an equal quality as the curriculum offered to the majority? RU: Oh definitely, definitely. HB: You're of course giving these people remedial help and that of course would be a rather significant factor there. RU: Yes. HB: You've got to move slowly. RU: Even if we had more funds, and funding has always been a problem, even if everything was ideal, nevertheless, we're reaching back and attempting to pull a situation together which has been a bad situation for a long, long time. I'm afraid that regardless of what kind of therapy we provide, that time is still going to be a factor we have to contend with. HB: In other words, it's a long range program. RU: Yes, definitely. Our program is entirely long range. 13 HB: I think there's a lot of ignorance on the part of the majority groups. RU: Well, we feel that this is one of the big problems. HB: You go across the campus and you'll find that there are very few professors that have a full understanding of the problems of these underprivileged people. RU: Yes. We're not even sure that after two years of our being on campus that everyone understands what we're doing here. HB: I feel that too. I feel that probably something should be done and you're probably doing as much as you can with the time you have and what help you have to get this program to the faculty. Does the administration ever invite you in to talk to the chairmen? RU: Yes, as a matter of fact, we've always had an opportunity to talk to the department chairmen. We should, I'm sure, do more of this kind of thing, but the administration had been very, very helpful. HB: Especially Dr. Hofmann and Dr. Miller? RU: Yes, very definitely. HB: What do you prognosticate for the future of this program? RU: I hope that we're going to be doing more of the same and refining our approaches. You know, this is a new area; it has not been possible in the past to go to graduate school and get a degree in minority concerns, although it is possible now. We don't have as much expertise as we would like to have but we expect to refine our approaches and be able to do a better job in the future than we have in the past. 14 HB: Do you have any other remarks you'd like to make concerning your ethnic studies institute that we might have missed? RU: No, I don't Dr. Bateman. I think you've covered the questions very, very well and I don't have anything beyond that to offer. HB: Well, I certainly wish to take this opportunity to thank you for your time. I've always found you to be most cooperative and I wish we could have you participate in more of this work. I know it's impossible for you to do it because you have a very great responsibility getting this program established. RU: Well, yes. Actually they're throughout the state; we're holding workshops of various kinds. HB: And who is attending them? RU: The state people, supervisors, management, personnel, corporations, and businesses are asking us to provide these cultural awareness workshops. HB: You're in charge of these programs, aren't you? RU: Yes. HB: And are you with the State Department of Public Instruction? RU: No, no, we're working on a contract basis with the institute. HB: Oh, with the institute? RU: Yes. HB: Do you have any connection with the University of Utah? RU: No, none whatsoever. HB: Thank you, Dr. Ulibarri.