Oral History Program Joseph Drysdale George Klipper 16 December 1974 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Joseph Drysdale Interviewed by George Klipper 16 December 1974 Copyright © 2012 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in Special Collections. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The Weber State College/University Student Projects have been created by students working with several different professors on the Weber State campus. The topics are varied and based on the student's interest or task for a specific assignment. These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Drysdale, Joseph, an oral history by George Klipper, 16 December 1974, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Joseph Drysdale. The interview was conducted on December 16, 1974, by George Klipper, at Drysdale’s home in Ogden, Utah. Drysdale talks about his experience in the U.S. Army serving during World War I and the Mexican War. He discusses his position as the bugler during these wars. GK: Now, Mr. Drysdale, will you give us a little of your own personal general background; your date of birth, where you were born, names of your parents, a little bit about your family, and your education. JD: My age is 74. My schooling, there wasn't much cause I enlisted in the Army when I was just turned 16, and I was attending Central Jr. High School with a buddy of mine. GK: You were born in Ogden then? JD: Oh, yes. I was born, in Ogden. GK: What was your birth date? JD: August the 8th, 1900. My father's name was James Drysdale, and my mother's name was Jane McClure Drysdale. GK: How do you spell her last name? JD: M-c-C-l-u-r-e. McClure, and I've 4 brothers and 5 sisters that was in our family. Now, the remaining sisters I only have 2; and the remaining brothers I only have, I don't have any, just myself. My brother, the last of my brothers just died this year in California. GK: O.K. We'll stop here. Alright, Mr. Drysdale, will you relate how you joined the U.S. Army at the young age of 16 and where this took place. 1 JD: A buddy of mine, Harold C. McKnight, who had just turned 16 on the 5th of August, and I, we were sitting in the City Hall Park waiting for a message from his father who was general agent of the Union Pacific just across the street from the park. Let's see. Oh, while we were sitting there a recruiter from the U.S. Army came by and sat down and started talking to us. Then he branched into wanting us to enlist in the Army which we didn't want to do. We refused it, being at the age of 16, but he made it sound very romantic and exciting to be a member of the armed forces. So, we told him yes, we, we'd like to. Then he asked us how old we were; and when we told him 16, why he shook his head and he says "No, no," he said "I think you're too young." He said, "But, wait a minute." He said, "I think we can up your age on your discharge, and if that'll help out we'll have to have your parents’ consent if we do that." So he said "Well we can ask them about it." He said "Well come up to the recruiting office in the post office building tomorrow and tell me what you decide to do and what your parents actions of it." So, we said we would and we were quite enthused over it. So, we told our parents; and naturally, they said, "Absolutely not. You're going to stay and get your education first before you go into anything like that." So, we were disappointed and, and then Harold called me on the phone and said his father had agreed to it, and he says, "I'm well acquainted with Mayor..." I can't remember his name. GK: The mayor of Ogden? JD: Mayor's name was Mayor Haywood. He says if we go and bring our parents down that he'll have an interview and he'll tell us what advantages or what disadvantages there is in our joining the armed forces. So, I told Harold on the phone, "I'll ask dad and mother if they'll go down." I said, "You find out when Mayor Haywood would like to see us." So he said, "O.K. and then I'll call you back." So he did. He called us back and then mother and dad said they'd go down and have the interview with the Mayor, and his father and mother would go with us. So we went down there, 2 and Mayor Haywood told us that his son was a Lieutenant in the Navy, and he had great experience and great admiration for the Navy, and for all services pertaining to the government armed forces. So our mother and dad was kind of reluctant of saying yes-we could go in, but they finally consented to give in, make our age 18 so we could join the service. So, it was a happy ending. We congratulated our father and mother and, and, everybody was happy. GK: And this was about 8 days after your 16th birthday in August of 1916? JD: Right. Yes. So, we did we went over to the recruiter and told him we'd join, and our fathers would sign the paper granting their permission. So, after everything was signed, why the recruiter swore us in to the Army. So, he said instead of going in the Army, he says they need men now down on the Mexican border that Pancho Villa was upset and he was raiding the towns bordering the border of Texas and Arizona. GK: These are towns on the American side of the border? JD: Right. Yeah. GK: He was coming across the border and raiding... JD: Right. GK: American towns? JD: That’s right. And so he said he'd send us down to Nogales. Nogales is a town right in Arizona and half of it is in Mexico. It's right on the border, runs right through the center of town. GK: How did you get from Ogden to Nogales? 3 JD: To go down there we went on the train. It was the first time Harold and I'd ever been separated from our parents, and we wanted to be big shots and everything, but we found out that we couldn't. Oh, by the way, we were sworn in at Port Douglas. GK: In Salt Lake City? JD: In Salt Lake City. We went down there and swore in and they gave us our uniforms, and we spent two days and one night in Port Douglas 'fore we left. Then they took us down to the depot, the D&RG depot in Salt Lake, and we boarded the train for Nogales. And on the way down there, it was in; I believe it was in Arizona that we got off the train. The train stopped and we got off the train and went in the, the depot and had some coffee or had something to eat or coke or something, and while we were in there, the train whistle blew and the, the trainman or doorman at the depot said your train's ready to leave. So, we dashed out of the , the depot, and just as we did the train pulled out, but it was moving slow, and Harold was ahead of me and he caught the handle of the door going in, but I couldn't. I couldn't get it. So, the baggage car came up and, and, the only opening on the baggage car was this big sliding door in the middle of the car. So I thought well God, I can't get on that, but anyway I made a leap, and I just lit on in the door just on my chest with my feet hanging swinging underneath by the wheels. And this baggage man he came over and grabbed me by the shoulders, and gave me a yank and pushed me in the car. So, I thanked him for it, and boy did he bawl me out. It was terrible. So I stayed in there and Harold, he was having a hemorrhage to find out where I was or what happened to me, but he was all alone, didn't know what to say, didn't know anybody. But anyway when the train stopped at the next town, why I got out and then I didn't know which car I was on. So I had to hunt for the car, and all of a sudden I saw Harold's head poke out of the window, and he hollered at me, and so I got on the train alongside of, of him. Then we start, from then on why we had a nice trip 4 except one little incident that we were kind of ashamed of, but it happened to all the boys in the car. It wasn't a tourist car, it was just a regular passenger car with seats and just across the aisle from us was two kind of elderly ladies. And they were talking to us of how old we were and everything like that. And anyway we had some canned food to eat on the way and while we were talking there, I got this can of beans out, which was a favorite food of the Amy. And old Harold says, "Alright Joe," he says, "spill the beans!" And so I said "O.K." and I opened the lid and spilled them right on the table, that little table in front of us. And these ladies, why, oh brother, they just screamed. Anyway they really gave us a riot act for doing a stunt like that. We got to Nogales and then we waited at the depot, and then a truck drove up and there paged Joseph Drysdale and Harold McKnight in Troop E. And so we went up to the Sergeant and told him we were… GK: Now Troop E, this was the outfit you were assigned to? JD: Right. GK: Now Troop E, being it was a Calvary organization. JD: Right. GK: O.K. JD: Yeah. There were two squadrons on the border. There was Squadron A and Squadron B. They was made up of National Guardsmen who were from all over Utah, but Troop A was mostly northern Utah and Troop B, Squadron B was southern Utah, Sanpete County. GK: Now what was the difference between a squadron and a troop? Which organization was smaller as in comparison to a battalion and a company? JD: They were about the same. GK: About the same. 5 JD: All it was, was to make it more simple to control a certain quantity of men, like there were in that squadron three troops. Our, our squadron, second, first squadron was A, B, and C, and then our squadron was D, S, and P, in, in, that outfit, which made it easier to control, uh and anyway we got on the truck with this Sergeant and rode back to camp, and he took us up to the, to the Captain of the Troop B and introduced us and then the Captain congratulated us and welcomed us to the 1st Utah Calvary, Troop E. Then he called a Sergeant and the Sergeant escorted us down to a tent and introduced us to six men in this certain tent. As a rule there1s all the way from four to eight men to the tent, these big pyramid tents. And these were veterans of the Calvary. Three of them were farmers and lived on a, on a ranch, and some of them on a farm, but they were well acquainted with handling of horses. And Harold and I was just opposite. We'd never been on a horse in our life. But anyway they assigned us to that and as a rule, why we had to follow our general orders of where to go and what outfit, we shouldn't say outfit-say organization, we belong to. While we were in Troop E, they didn't have a bugler. They had one once, but his length of service ran out and he didn't want to reenlist, so he quit and went home. And I told them that I'd played the trumpet in scouts, and, and I knew how to play the bugle, but I didn't know any bugle calls. So, they just jumped at that. They said that's just what we want; you'll be taught the calls and your regulations. So I said O.K., and they told us, told me that I'd be on special duty as a bugler. So, I thought that was great too; and Harold, he didn't like it cause we'd be separated. But anyway we got along pretty good on the first day of camp. Except we had one experience that, that, I don't think I'll ever forget. We had to go to water the horses. The Captain would send a detail ahead of us. It was way up in the hills and the road would just wind around the hills down to the level clear ground and up to where our camp was. And the whole troop with the squadron, they'd take turns watering their horses out there because they didn't have enough. The trench 6 where the water was wasn't long enough to water a whole squadron of horses at once. So when we got up, we had to turn the water on and then before we left we had to wash the trough out. In fact, the horses that we depended on so much were more respected and more taken care of than the men were, because they were our life. We had to depend on them. So we got the water in the trough and everything, and then the troop came up. They watered the horses, and then Captain Wayne asked one of the Sergeants there if they'd left transportation for us to come back to camp. And they said no, and he said well leave them a couple of horses and let them come back. So, after we cleaned the trough out and had it ready for the next watering detail...when we take the horses up to water, all they have on them is a halter, not a bridle. It was just a halter around their nose and up around their ears. There was no bit in their mouth, and so we got on these, and by the way, these two were officers’ horses and they were real frisky. And we'd never been on a horse to train how to ride or anything. When you have to ride a horse with no saddle, they call it monkey drill, and we had to do that quite often. Then we got on these two horses to come back, and as we started out, why Harold he says, "Watch this Joe," and he kicked his horse in the flank, and just like a bullet his horse just took off just like a streak of lightening. And if two horses are together, and one horse does anything like that; the other horse will automatically follow him. So I was on that other horse and it followed him with no bridle and no saddle on. One time we'd be up on his ears and the next time we were practically hanging on his tail. And every curve we'd go around, there were sharp curves, why I yelled at Mac and told him, I said, "We'd better jump," I said, "they'll never make this next turn." But they did. They made that turn and we got down to the, what we called the picket line. There's a triangle at each end of the rope tied to it, and then we'd tie the horses from the halter rope. We'd tie that to this rope stretched from one of these tripods to the other, with the hay scattered along underneath them. Well, anyway, when we 7 stopped, these horses went right up to the picket line. We didn't have to guide them or anything. We didn't know that. We thought they'd go right into Mexico, but they went right to the picket line and stopped. And when I got off of the horse, Mac done the same thing, we just fell on our knees. Our legs were so weak, they wouldn't hold us up. But then to make matters worse, the Lieutenant that saw us come into camp on the dead run, he called us into the commander's tent, and they confined us to camp for two weeks for running the horses, and we couldn't have stopped them if we wanted to. But a horse can never be run, on a run or anything unless the order is given to run gallop, trot or walk. GK: I see. JD: Then we'd have signals for all of that. That’s sounded on the bugle too. GK: So this was disobedience to orders in other words. JD: Right. That’s what it was. GK: Though it wasn't your fault. JD: But we didn't know it. So, we got along pretty good there on the border. It was nice and hot and even on I think it was a few days after New Year’s, it hailed, and made big hails. And we were on a maneuver, and we had a Brigadier General come there to review us. And on coming back, we hit this big heavy hail storm. GK: This was in January? JD: Yea, that was in January on the Mexican Border. It's the first time they'd seen snow or hail. GK: So, by this time you were down in Nogales from August by the middle of August to, about 5 months? 8 JD: Yeah. Well, we came back one month before war was declared. We'd just got back to Utah and I was...got out of uniform for just about a month, and then on the 6th of April, 1917, war was declared. GK: Now this five months that you were down in Nogales, was it a period of training? JD: Right, right. That's definitely what you'd call it, and we got a lot of it. GK: Were there any patrols of actions that you had to go out on against Pancho Villa? JD: Well, anyway, when we were on this here maneuver it hailed and you never saw such a wild mess in all your life! These hails were hard, and they were pelting these horses. And I don't think these horses had ever been in, in hail before in their life. The Mexican Border, it was real hot there all the time. Anyway, they hit these horses and they were just going in all directions, and they were bucking and throwing a lot of men off, and it was really a mess. And this General kept yelling, "Man your horses! Man your horses!” Which was impossible for anyone to do. I remember him yelling like that, and the other officers, they picked up their yells too because the General that was doing this. They tried to smooth the roughness out of these horses. But it couldn't be done. They bucked, and finally the hail stopped and we completed our maneuver. Then we had one call. We were the only troop on that border at that time that really went into Mexico. We had a call from headquarters that Pancho Villa or bandits had crossed the border, and was raiding this big mining plant in America. And there was a big plant when we got there. They had a great big lake and everybody would swim in this lake at that time. GK: This was in Arizona, this plant? JD: Right, right. It was in Arizona. And when we got there, we had to travel at night; and I think we got the call around, oh, it must have been about 3 or 4 o'clock. And then that night we still hadn't 9 reached our destination. And that's when a whole lot of us got sick. It's the first time we'd ever rode a horse a long distance at night, and every one of us; or not everyone of us, a few that didn't, but I, I was one and so was Harold. We got seasick from riding that horse, and brother, what a feeling that was. We couldn't see where we was going, and all of a sudden that horse would just king of drop. It would go down in these ditches and holes. All along the border there it was really, really rugged country. There, nothing was level. It was all hills and sand and sage brush and there were cactuses and everything else along there. Anyway, when we got out to this camp where we were supposed to get our final orders, before we went over into Mexico. We got there and that was the first time that we'd ever seen an airplane, and there was an Army airplane; and that was circling ahead. There was a detachment of a hospital corps there, and also several troops from Texas were in, in around...there was a large, large area, and that area was, was, about a mile I imagine, and that was practically full of servicemen. GK: Now, this airplane you saw was this the first airplane you'd ever saw in your life? JD: Right, the first one. GK: I imagine it was also the first one for most of the other men in the troop. JD: Right. At that time, that was 1916. And anyway, we stayed at this here camp, and we didn't have anything to eat. So, they gave us orders to…there were cows once in a while that would scatter around through there; and we had orders that we could kill a cow and butcher it right there at the camp, which we did. GK: Did you cook your own food, or did they have regular mess cooks? JD: No, no, we had our cook. GK: You did have a… 10 JD: Yea, right. GK: …cook for your troop. JD: Right. Then we had to serve as the help. Kitchen police they called them, for him, to, and assist him always as best we could. So, it was then the order came that this troop, or band of bandits had re-crossed the border again into Mexico. And there was one troop that went in after them, but I don't think that they got very far, and we heard later that they'd had orders to come back. The orders were that we couldn't shoot unless we had orders to shoot. They didn't want to start a war with Mexico, but orders were that we weren't going to let them come in and kill any of our citizens or rob any of our institutions down along the border there. So we were fortunate enough there that we came back in time. And then after we'd gotten back in camp, we stayed there oh, for quite a few months, and then we got orders to come back to get on the train and come back to Salt Lake City. The 1st Squadron, they came back oh, about 5 or 6 months before we did. We were the only troop or squadron on the border at that time. GK: On the border at that time, did you ever...were you ever in a troop movement down into Mexico? Did you ever get across the border? JD: No, no. We, we stayed on this side. We had to patrol our border every once in a while from about 5,6 miles outside of Nogales. In our tour of duty we had to send a troop out which consisted of, oh, about, 8 men with a sergeant in charge, and a cook. And, we'd go out. Our tour of duty was from Nogales or from our camp at Nogales to Arivaca. And then we'd meet another troop coming from the east side of Arizona, and they'd come and meet us, and then we'd turn around, go back and they would too. Then that way the border was patrolled at all times. So, that kind of winded up our experience on the Mexican Border. It was wild while it lasted. We had a lot of … 11 GK: It must have been quite an adventure for a young man. JD: Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, at our age, why, never been out of Utah before. Why it was quite an experience. They told us things that we never even knew about and thought about. It was tough for a while, but we managed it. We stayed decent, and we stayed clean 'cause none of us would drink. I learned to smoke during World War I, but I gave it up and I haven't smoked since. On our patrol between Nogales and Arivaca; Arivaca is a little bit of a town. There's only about, oh, I imagine twenty Mexicans in it. It's all Mexicans, and we camped with our two tents just across the street from the main town, which was a pool hall and a little coffee shop and a little grocery store, and I believe that was all that was there. It was right in the middle of nowhere. And our first night at Arivaca, there were about 3 or 4 of the Mexicans who dashed down the street on their horses, and as they went by our tents, they shot rifles at us, rifles or pistols into the tents. One of the guys was hit, but he wasn't killed. He was wounded, and they had to escort him back to Nogales. And then there was a call to arms then, and we all fell out into company street, and patrolled the street, oh, for about a half hour, seeing if anybody knew who they were or if they'd quit or gone or what, what happened to them. But nothing developed. So, they called the search off, and we went back to sleep again. GK: The Mexican people didn't really appreciate you being down there. JD: That's right. They didn't like us. And we were protecting them, but at the same time, why, they did everything. Some of the men that went into the pool hall to play pool would monopolize all the pool hall. Till one group, they went in there and then they took their pistols inside. We had six shooters then. We didn't have any lj.5 automatics like we had in World War I. These were regular six shooters. They were 38 caliber. They went in that pool hall. They put their guns inside their belt underneath their blouse that they had on. And when they went in there, why they told these 12 Mexicans at a table that they'd give them just about 3 minutes to get away from that pool table or there'd be some shooting. And they reached in and took their six shooters out and held them sown the side of them, and the Mexicans immediately dropped their cue sticks and went over and sat down alongside of the building and let us play pool. We didn't have any trouble with them in that pool hall after that. When they start shooting at us from that road there, we could hear the horses going down there on the dead run. They just… GK: You never did apprehend the… JD: No, no. We never did catch them. GK: …these people. JD: The rest of the Mexicans wouldn't tell who they were or anything, but there wasn't many of them there. We could point them, but whether there were 10 or 20, why if we didn't know who they were, why we couldn't identify them. GK: Mr. Drysdale had in his possession a 25 centavos bill issued on the 10th of December, 1913, in the Mexican state of Chihuahua by the provisional governor of the state who was Generalissimo Francisco Villa (as annotated on the bill). Mr. Drysdale, will you explain some of the duties that you had to do to take care of your horses while you were in the Calvary. JD: Well, they always say that a horse is a cavalryman’s best friend, meaning that you have to take care of it in all details. You start every morning no matter what day it is; Sundays and all, you have to curry them down, and then brush them down. You have to inspect their eyes, if there's any matter in the corner of their eyes that has to be cleaned out. You have to check their nose so that there's no obstacle in their nose that'd stop them from breathing, or would irritate them and make them mad so they'd buck or wouldn't obey the reins. And once a week we would get a tub 13 of water and with a little can that we'd have, and we'd put this can in the tub with some water in it and then throw the water over them, and then we'd brush them with a regular brush. And then we'd do that until we'd completely covered their, body and made them shine when the sun would ever shine on them. If it was a real black horse, or a dark tan horse, they'd really shine and they really look pretty. That was mandatory that we had to take care of our horses first when we'd come back from a hike or anything like that before we could go in the tent and lay down on… GK: Patrol also? JD: Patrols right. Our horses had to come first before the men. Like on our watering detail; we had to be sure that the trough was clean before we turned the water in it. And then after the horses had all drank the water, then we'd have to get a brush and brush the trough out thoroughly with a brush so it'd be clean for the next troop to bring their horses up to be watered. GK: I imagine you had to take care of the tack equipment… JD: Right. GK: …also. JD: For our saddle we had saddle soap, and saddle soap is a preventative of hardening of leather. It makes the leather more soft and pliable than anything else that you could do for leather. And when that was done, our saddles were saddle soaped, oh, well whenever they needed it, but is was practically mandatory that we'd do it at least once a week. And we had to bring our saddle in and soap it down good and thoroughly clean it. We also had, the Calvary then all had leather puttees. It was complete leather. Then the artillery we got in the artillery, it was half canvas and then the inside was leather. GK: Puttees, what, what do you mean by that? 14 JD: That was leggings. GK: Ah leggings. JD: Right. GK: I see. JD: But our saddle with saddle soap really had to be soaped up real good so it'd more or less shine. And speaking of shining, I'd like to get a little back to when I was a recruit. Our armament consisted of a rifle and what they call a scabbard. It's a sword. It's, oh, it's about almost 3 feet long and it's about an inch wide, and they tarnish it by burning it and making the blade dark. The reason to that is that if we have to use our scabbard in a charge, we'd holler a command and on our scabbard there'd be a lock at the top just below the handle, like a button, and they'd say "Draw," and we'd draw the sabre out of the scabbard just about an inch. And then (the Commander) said, "Sabre." We'd draw it to full length above our head and then throw it down along the horse's neck, straight along its neck. But if that sabre was polished like a sword, kind of silver, the sun would reflect on it, and we couldn't be hid from our enemy. GK: Oh, I see. It would give your...position away. JD: Right. When I was a recruit they gave me that sword and I thought it was an old rusty sword. And, I know that (the) military is strict on cleanliness and brightness of everything. So, I got me some Dutch-cleanser, and I took all the burnt off of this sabre. And I was certain to take it to the Sergeant, and told him that what a good job I'd done on this sabre, and he saw it. He almost threw me out of the tent.' He just raved about it. Anyway, I had to turn the sabre in and draw another one that was all black that wouldn't reflect on it (the sun). GK: You mentioned that you had a rifle, also. What kind of weapon was…? 15 JD: It was a…at that time it was an Enfield. World War I we had mostly Enfield’s. The Springfield was a more superior rifle than the Enfield. Most of them liked them (the Springfield). But our most important part of the armament in the Calvary was the, the pistol (38 caliber) and the sword or sabre. We called it a sword, but we did have a rifle too. GK: So you actually had training in the use of the sabre? JD: Right, right. Yeah. It goes…everything in the Army, according to armament goes by command. Even in throwing a hand grenade, unless you are out in a trench, and it's…throw it well…why then you can do it any time, but when in training (they) learn you how to throw, right position to throw a hand grenade, which is directly over your head. Then you can pin point where it is. And if you throw it over your head and face the, the enemy that you want after a point of contact with a grenade, you have to look at that point and then bring it right over your right eye or left eye. And the hand grenade would go that distance, and according to how strong you throw it, it'll go there right on the line of sight. And your sabre is drilled too. Now on the...when we were on the Mexican border there, we had drills all the time even on foot drills, maneuvers and also with the...sabre and the pistol and the rifle. GK: Did the Calvary have any other weapons besides their side arms, rifles, and sabers? I mean did they have small artillery pieces? Did they use those? JD: No. Not on the western border they didn't. So it was strictly... Some of the cavalries, large cavalries like the one that I believe it was at Fort Knox, this 1st Calvary was stationed for quite a while, they had little mortar guns, where they put the, the shell down in the front of the barrel, and when it hits a pin on the bottom, it shoots out. They had those. GK: Were these on wheels, or could they be carried on a horses back or a mule's back? 16 JD: No. They…wasn't on wheels. It was just a framework. .. GK: Oh. JD: …they'd pick up and… GK: Oh. JD: …they were… GK: So that, so a man could carry that around… JD: Right. GK: ...on his horse with ease. JD: And they change them. Some of them, World War I, I believe, had wheels on it. They use those different weapons like that for the condition of the, how the ground is and what they're trying to accomplish by attacking this certain project. GK: So they pick the right weapon that they can. You said you came back to Utah from the Mexican border in January of 1917. Could you go from there Mr. Drysdale? JD: Yeah, I don't know, it wasn't January. It was, let's see, it was February. GK: February. JD: Yeah, February or the first part of March because we wasn't out of uniform long before war was declared on the 6th of April, 1917. GK: Well, when you say out of uniform, do you mean that you got discharged? JD: No, no, but you see I was in the National Guard then… GK: Oh, I see. 17 JD: …and, we just trained at the armory her at Ogden. GK: Oh, and you came back to Ogden. JD: So, if we weren't training, then we could get out of our uniform. Then after we got back, after war was declared, the contingent of National Guards at that time was federalized into the regular Army. And then they called, oh, several of the key men to prepare their remaining enlisted men that'll come into the service. They selected, oh, there's about, about I imagine 4Q or 60 that had previous service. And they stood us down; we had to report at Jordan Narrows. That's the National Guard Camp, now; they train down there once a year. We had to go down there and then we went through a rigid routine of what was expected of us and how we were expected to act. And they gave us strict orders to obey all the Commander's orders and to teach the new men that's coming in our particular battery what we were doing. A lot of them were up on signal work. That is they could signal with what they call a wig wag with one flag, or we signaled with semaphores with two flags, or we signaled with a light from the front to the rear only. It was more or less Morse code of the dot and dash. We had to learn all of that, and then, also, they picked about three buglers from, oh, I, went down from Ogden, and then there was one from Logan and there were two, from Salt Lake. There's about five of us down there. GK: Did Mr. McKnight, your friend… JD: Oh, no. GK: …go with you? JD: No. McKnight, my buddy there, he didn't go down until all of us left here for Fort Douglas, and then we entrained for our trip to California at Camp Kearny, which is about 35 miles outside of Los Angeles. And then on the Mexican Border, they picked these here men, and I was chosen 18 as a 2nd Battalion bugler. I had three buglers under me, and then there were two, there was 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Battalions and each of these had a Battalion bugler. Then, of course, I was in the service before these two and they didn't have much service when they went in. They joined after I was in the service for a while. Anyway, after we completed Camp Kearney there, they had me listed as a Corporal in there but it was wrong. I never received notification or anything of it. Everything was so fouled up at the start of the war like that anything could happen. GK: Let me stop right here, Mr. Drysdale. {Reel No. 2, of the interview with Mr. Joseph Drysdale.) } GK: Mr. Drysdale will relate a little something on the Mexican Border. JD: I thought that maybe this would be interesting. I forgot about it when I was talking about my experience on the Mexican Border. On our monkey drill with our horses, which we had to do every day for about, oh, from one hour to two hours on the parade grounds, and also up to the hills, we’d be on the parade grounds and there'd be a circle drawn. We'd have to ride the horses up to this circle place; it's front feet in this circle, and make the horse make a complete about-face all the way around this circle without removing it's feet from the circle. The circle was about, oh, I'd say just about two feet in diameter, which was hard to do. Sometimes that horse just wouldn't keep its feet in the circle and we'd have to start from beginning and do it all over again. Also when I was learning to blow the bugle on the Mexican Border, it was quite an ordeal. It takes a lot of practice on those little bugles to sound all those calls. When you're in the service, everything you do, all commands and everything is relayed on the bugle. It tells you when to get up in the morning, when to eat your meals, when to attend sick call, when to attend fatigue call. With fatigue call is policing your company streets of all paper and debris that the wind has blown over or anything that distracts from the neatness of your company street. And, also, you blow drill-call 19 when they all assemble and go out on parade grounds back to camp. Also, at 9 o'clock, no 11 o'clock every morning, or practically every morning, you have to sound First Sergeant's Gall which means that all of the First Sergeants of all the batteries or troops has to report to the headquarters tent to the company or battery Adjutant. Then you have to play Adjutants' Call which is for the Adjutants to distribute their orders for the day; and then if the Commanding Officer wants the officers to attend a meeting in his headquarters tent, you have to blow Officer's Call. If he only wants the Captains of each battery, troop, or Calvary, I'll blow Captains' Call. Then in the evening after recall, at retreat when the flag comes down, I'll first sound Assembly. Then all the troops will assemble on their proper streets or in their group on the parade grounds. First, after Assembly, I'll sound. Retreat. After Retreat, they'll stand at parade rest during Retreat. Then I'll sound Attention and all the troops, all the men in the regiment will come to attention and I'll blow To the Colors, which is same as The Star Spangled Banner. When To the Colors is blown, then they lower the flag on the parade grounds. After Retreat, I'll play Mess Call. That's for supper. Then after supper at 9 o'clock in the evening, I'll play Tattoo. That means that all visitors must leave camp* and all loud noises must cease. Then at quarter to 11, I'll play Call To Quarters. That means that everyone has to report to their respective tent, and all loud noises must cease. Fifteen minutes after the sounding of Call To Quarters, the Taps is sounded. When Taps is sounded, all lights in the regiment must go out, and all loud noises and talking must cease for the night. That's the summary of the calls, the regular calls that’s played from morning to night. There are several additional calls that is sounded, but just on the command of the Commanding Officer. GK: Now, you had regular calls too, if you were in action, sort of like advance, or fall back and regroup? Did you ever learn any of these battle calls, you might say? 20 JD: Yes. Also, when you were in action, there's a Charge that you play. It isn't like a charge that the bands play at football games now. That is more or less a fanfare, but the regular charge is entirely different from what that one is. Then there is a Recall you can play in battle and also a Cease Pire you can play when you're in battle. Those are the main calls that's used when you're engaging the enemy in any kind of conflict. GK: This part of the oral history interview with Mr. Drysdale is being conducted at his house on December 27, 1974. Alright, Mr. Drysdale, you told us about how you came back to Utah from the U.S. Mexican Border, and how war was declared. World War I was declared a month, about a month after you came back; and you related your trip down to Camp Kearny, California. Would you give us some more background on what you did in Camp Kearny? JD: We left Salt Lake for Camp Kearny on October 10, 1917 and arrived there on October 13, 1917. Camp Kearny was stationed just outside of San Diego. There was a big field. I imagine it was about, oh, about 3 or 4 miles square. It was all sand out there too, a parade ground, a beautiful parade ground, but it was awful hard to march on when we first got there on account of the loose sand. But I remember distinctly that all during our time at Camp Kearny there was training, training, and more training. Also, night and day it seemed like we were doing nothing but training. And two months of training at Jordan Narrows, the officers’ training camp. I was transferred to headquarters’ Company and appointed 2nd Battalion Bugler, which consisted of three batteries. There were three battalions in our 145th Artillery Regiment. The first section battery was A, B, and C. The 2nd Battalion was D, E, and F, and then G, H, and I. And there was quite a squabble over buglers. A lot of them wanted to belong to another battery. Some wanted to stay where they were, and at first, it was kind of a mess getting our Bugle Corps organized where we had appropriate buglers and the right type of buglers for each of the batteries, instead of consolidating 21 all the good buglers which had previous military training into one battery and make the other batteries suffer. So we figured after we got it all organized that we did have a good Bugle Corps. And all the buglers were my responsibility that is in our unit there and for training and everything. Camp Kearny was a very large, open field. It was the home of the 40th Division, composed of men from the Western states, consisting of artillery, infantry, hospital, remount. In fact it took in all branches of the U.S. Army. GK: What is remount? JD: Remount is a, compound of horses. They use horses for, oh, for training, athletic activities. It's similar to a Calvary. They were a unit by themselves, but they still belonged to the 4Oth Division. But their primary duty was to take care of horses; to groom them, and do the necessary work of keeping the horses in, good condition. At the time, we had a review for a Japanese General and his staff; and when they came out on the stand, boy, I'm telling you they really decorated. They had ribbons around their shoulders and badges all across their chest. They looked like a bunch of clowns to us because we weren't very much in favor of Japs. At that time, why, that was before Pearl Harbor. We wouldn't have had a review if they'd showed up after that Pearl Harbor deal they gave us. The funny thing about it was the time we were assembled to be on the parade grounds for the review. Our Commanding General of the 4Oth Division headquarters was just east of, our parade grounds. He called a meeting of the officers of all of the units of the 4Oth Division to meet in his office, and he briefed them on the review; what was expected of them, and the time and place of the review, and he stressed that he wanted promptness. If the review was for 2o 'clock in the afternoon, the review was to start promptly at 2 o'clock in the afternoon. And the General, by the way, was very strict on all the orders that he gave out to the battalions, regiments, batteries and troops. The Division Commander told the staff officers the review was to 22 start promptly at 1400 hours. This time was given to the brigade commanders. Then the brigade commanders in turn gave their time and what they expected of the batteries of the regiments at 1330 hours, because he didn't want to be made a fool of in not getting his organization out on the parade grounds at the appropriate time. This time was given to their Captains, the Captains, to make sure their men would be on time, told the battery Sergeants it was 1200 hours which was another half hour earlier than, in fact, it was about an hour what the Division Commander gave the brigade officers. All of the top officers wanted to be sure their men would be on time. So, we were all on the parade grounds at 1200 hours, and we waited, waited and waited. And to make it worse, we stood there in our uniforms; and boy, was it hot! It really was. We heard the officers were reprimanded, but we all doubted it. Then our regiment took an eleven day march from Camp Kearny to Santa Anna which was a distance a little over a hundred miles. This little town opened their hearts to us, strangers in their midst and though we were not, they thought we were their kin. They made us feel at home. Our band made a big hit at all of the towns we visited and went through. They were well pleased when our band and bugle corps played a descriptive number titled The Death of Custer. But we were sure glad to get back to camp. Boy, what a march! We had left for Santa Ana on June 4, 1918, and got there in 6 days. When we returned to Camp Kearny, it took us only 35 hours, which was a record. For two months, I was transferred to the Divisional Recruit Camp to train buglers of the entire division. This consisted of all the routine calls and all the warning calls. At the end of my tour of duty, I graduated eleven good buglers. They said that this was a record; which made me feel a lot better, for I wanted to get back to my regiment. In training these buglers, the purpose of sending a regular older bugler over to teach them was that they needed buglers in all units of the 4Oth Division. In fact, I wasn't sent over there from Headquarters’ Company with the 145th Field Artillery to train buglers just for my 23 regiment. I had to train all the buglers in their duties, their dress, how neat they had to be, how promptly they had to be on guard duties, and how strict the bugle calls were, what they were meant for and all the routine duties of a regular bugler. This not only the bugle calls and being orderlies to the adjutant, but it included all, all types of signal work. There was three. There was the Morse code, which was the dot and dash. There was the semaphore what was with the flag, two flags. And then there was the wig-wag, with the one flag which the wig-wag with the right was the dot, and the left was the dash. And the wig-wag was.... GK: Uh, I see. JD: …with two, A, B, C, D and letters. GK: What were some of the other activities that you engaged in at the camp besides t raining? Were there any studies or lessons in the French language? JD: No. Well…we did have in our mess hall, we had an interpreter come and talk to us on French and German languages. They told us the fundamentals of it; how it sounded, how to form our tongue in our mouth to pronounce their word correctly. But it was a short lesson. It was just a, a, little lesson that, in little things that might happen to us if we went to town, or if we was captured what we could distinguish probably what the Germans was telling us; and we could either make up our mind whether that was worth telling them or to keep our mouth shut, and tell them that we didn't understand, which was one of the main things, that not to let out any information that was pertinent to our organization, that would be of benefit to the enemy. We, we couldn't do that at all. We had to say we don't understand of give them some excuse, but we, absolutely was not allowed to talk to the Germans and give them any military information. Also, while I was stationed at Camp Kearny, we had a mild earthquake. I was sitting with a bunch of the other buddies on the railing…by the porch of the P.X., and we were sitting on top of the railing, and all of a sudden 24 the earth moved and every one of us fell off that railing. And scared, I'm telling you. We was scared. And in the P.X., it was a terrible noise in there. All the cans and everything on the shelves fell off and brother it just made an awful sound. A lot of them, they picked up cans or picked up things that was in the P.X. They had to get out of there in a hurry. They told everybody to get out; and as they went out, why, they just reached down and grabbed what they could put in their pocket and took it with them. But it was quite a, quite a shock. There was one good thing about it, there's, there was no one hurt. Everything was shaken up and everything. It gave us quite a, a thrill, but it didn't hurt anybody. Then being on level ground and sand, it absorbed a lot of the earth's shock, and having tents the way we were, why…only thing that could fall in…on us was our mess hall. That was wood. And the duties of a bugler when he was on guard duty is to sound all calls, and that was when we receive our first call from the bugler that was stationed at our Division Headquarters. And he had a big megaphone (when) I was on duty there once. In fact, all of the senior buglers in the entire division would take turns going to headquarters for a week and blowing the appropriate calls. As they'd blow the call, then they'd be taken up at each regiment, all over the division. GK: All over the camp? JD: So that… (all calls were) sounded on the time that was specified, as each bugler is assigned to the Division Headquarters to sound all designated calls first. Then each regimental bugler of the guard repeats the call. We left Camp Kearny by train for New York City by the southern route. Then up to New York by the eastern coast. We were stationed at Camp Mills, New York, until we sailed for England on the English transport Scotian. While we were going on board the ship, just as I arrived at the checking point, that's at the end of the gang plank, or the first of the gang plank, our regimental adjutant was checking us off his list…he told me to report to him when I had my 25 equipment put away. I went up the gang plank and put my gear where a buddy of mine could watch it till I came back aboard. Now on this here board they explained to us that when you went up that gang plank and you got on that ship, that you was in. foreign soil…you were out of the United States and you're not supposed to come back. But the Sergeant or the adjutant told me to report to him; which the bugler is an orderly to the department adjutant. When he told me to report to him, why, I thought he'd given permission that I could come back off the ship, And I, well I come down the gang plank and, and I had a hard time getting past all of the servicemen with their full packs on their back and rifles to get aboard, (to) get off the ship. But just as I reached the dock, I was grabbed by two husky men in civilian clothes; and, by the way, this is on record. The adjutant took a report of it...and lifted me off my feet and partly carried me into an empty warehouse. Then they started asking me a lot of questions, one right after the other. Before I could even answer one of their questions, I kept telling them I was to report to my adjutant. They'd asked me why I came off the ship, what I was doing off the ship, what my name was, what ray serial number was. Just fired questions at me, one right after the other. But I told them I was to report to my adjutant on the dock by the checking point on the dock. They, they wasn't satisfied and kept pushing me against the cement wall. This wall it, it was a, a, oh, one of these cement blocks and there was plaster in between. And the plaster was sticking out of all the (seams), it wasn't smoothed off. And, and they pushed me up against this here wall. They'd question me, and then they'd...put their hand on my chest and give me a big push. And I, I'd bump up against that wall with my head there, and bounce back. This continued until they finally stopped. My nose was bleeding, bleeding, and I had a, a big lump on the back of my head. And believe me, it was a big lump; I couldn't put my overseas cap on at all while I was on that ship. And my tie, boy, it was a mess. (That's) where they grabbed me...that knot was just twisted every 26 direction where they grabbed and held me. Then they told me they were P.B.I, agents and turned me loose. When I reported to the adjutant, boy was he ever mad! He sent two M.P.'s to the empty warehouse... and told them to find those two men and bring them back to him, pronto. But they looked all over and they came back empty handed. Said they…couldn't find those agents. GK: What, what happened in the warehouse? Were they apparently satisfied after they'd…? JD: I don't know. GK: …beaten you. JD: I don't know. GK: That you, you seemed, your answers seemed legitimate and... JD: I, I guess, but they done that. I, I, I still don't know why they did it. And, and, and they left, left me there and walked, oh, about 4 or 5 feet away from me and talked; and then they come back and said, "Report back to the ship." So I got out of there as quick as I could. I didn't want any more of that to stand there and talk to them. But they wanted to know what regiment I, I belonged to and, oh, a lot of questions that didn't make sense to me because I knew who I was and where I was going and, and everything. And, and why, why they didn't get a hold of the Sergeant, adjutant at that time and tell the Sergeant who they were and they wanted to talk to me in private. Then I think everything would've been alright. GK: And they said that they were F.B.I.? JD: Right. GK: Agents. 27 JD: F.B.I, or C.I.A., I forget. I think it was F.B. I. though, they said, I was confused. I'm pretty sure it was the F.B.I., though as I said. But they sure fooled me. Well, anyway, we got on the boat and about the third day out on the boat there… GK: What, what day was, did you leave port? Do you happen to remember? JD: No, I imagine I could find that though. GK: O.K. We'll insert it in later. JD: Anyway, the third day out, this boat, this Scotian, it was a large, large boat. It was a heavy one. It was an English ship and Scotian would signify it. GK: Was it a troop carrier or a converted passenger liner or a freighter? JD: Well, it was a converted transport. It was a passenger ship first. It was converted, but it was a monstrous ship. And it was deep. It went way down. Anyway, about the third day out which put us about in the middle of the ocean, we had a fire. Oh, and by the way, first, I had to sleep on about the second tier down in the ship in those hammocks which I never did. I never did get in that hammock. I, got in that, I no more put my back down in there and that thing would whirl around so fast that I'd find myself out on the deck. And I tried, I tried all ways. I tried putting my head and shoulders in first and that old thing would just flip fast and down I'd go. I gave it up. I thought, no, I'm going to sleep on the decks. So that is where I slept. Anyway, this fire came on the ship, and they couldn't find me, the bugler, to blow fire call. So, they finally got the fire out and well, then they found me. They got a hold of me, and all I could do then was play recall after they said there was no danger and the fire had been put out or was under control. So, I blew recall which was appropriate if I had blown fire call, but they, a lot of them, the Captains or the buglers would know what recall is so they'd know that it cancelled that fire alarm that… 28 GK: Oh. JD: They had. So, then the next day or that day, the Colonel, the adjutant sent a messenger after me and took me up to the Colonel's office and told me that, that he wanted me to have a stateroom right by him. Well, it wasn't by him but it was on the same deck that he was in; and he put me in with the regimental clerk. He was like an officer. He had an officer's hat, which is a campaign hat with a snake band, black and gold band that signifies an officer. But he wasn't entitled to a salute. He was just a regimental clerk, and so he said I'd sleep with him. There was a, another bunk in with him, and right next to us, on the left of us was a Major, Major Kristopherson from Salt Lake City. He was our medical doctor. He was in charge of several doctors in our regiment, besides our big dispensary for the 145th Regiment. But he had a stateroom right next to us and every once in a while, when we didn't have anything to do, he'd call me in. 'Course I couldn't go in his stateroom being an officer, but he'd call me in and he'd talk to me and tell me all about diseases and how better off you were if you were healthy and you didn't smoke or drink and things like that. He taught me a lot of things there, while we were stationed there together. Anyway, this regimental clerk caught the measles so they took him away. They said they took him up on the crow’s nest, and I, I couldn't find where it was. But they said that they kept him up there, and believe it or not, they put a padlock on my door and put me under quarantine for 21 days to see if I’d break out with the measles which I never did. I was penned-in that cockeyed stateroom all the way over in… GK: All the way across you were locked in your stateroom? JD: Right. GK: How did they get food to you? 29 JD: They'd, well, they'd open the door and, and put it down in the front, and I'd go out there, not out, but just reach out the door and get it on the deck. See the door in the stateroom was like this and the door would open, they'd put the food right at the foot of the door. GK: What about the lavatory facilities? Did they have its own head in the… JD: No. GK: …stateroom? JD: No. We had to go to another place in there. But they had a M.P. come and escort me and kept me ahead of him and kept the rest of them away from me like I was, had… GK: Had the plague. JD: Diphtheria or plague, yea. Yea, it was sure funny. But it was nice for me because I had a nice bed. I had a nice trip. Well, anyway, when we landed at Liverpool, all of the regiment, everybody on the boat went off. You’re not supposed to call it a boat. They say it's a ship. And all went off the ship and I waited there. And everything was quiet and oh, I guess it was an hour or an hour and a half, they knocked on the door and there was some hospital corpsmen who were out there with their big Red Cross band on their arm and on their helmets at the top. And they told me to come with them. So, I told them I was under quarantine, and they said "Yea, I know." They said, "We're going to take you to the hospital." I said "Oh brother." So I went with them, and at the bottom of the gang plank they had an ambulance backed right to the end of the plank. We came down the gang plank and marched right into the ambulance and took me to this hospital at Notty Ash, England. That's outside of Liverpool a little ways. So, they took me up to the hospital there and I stayed there and that was pretty good. That was, there were other men in the room with me, or in the big room it was. It wasn't a private room or anything, it was a big... 30 GK: Like a ward? JD: Ward, uh-huh. So, I stayed in there for, oh, it was about a week I guess. Yea, it was about a week, week on the ship. And then, oh, I left out when I was on that ship there. We had that fire, and right after that fire, I believe it was the next day or the day following, we had a submarine scare. All the sounds, sirens was sounded on the ship for submarines and they told us that we were off to the left there. And they the other escort ships, they were on each side of us and we were in the middle; they charged over in there. And, why, they really went over fast. There was a big torpedo boat, and then there was a big battleship with a big conning tower on the middle of the deck. GK: Do you remember what battleship it was? JD: No, no. We couldn't see the letters. In fact, we didn't even notice it; we was so anxious looking down to find where that submarine was. Anyway…that passed over. They said it was all clear. And another thing I was going to mention on that boat... we (were) assigned to boats and to rafts in case a submarine decided to (attack us), why we were to go to our station where these rafts and the lifeboats were. And ours, where I was stationed, it was number 14. I believe it was; on it and there was 21 assigned to that raft, and I know it wouldn't hold over 15. But there was 21 that was assigned to that raft. And brother, we's all praying there wouldn't be any, any torpedoes hit this ship. But it was funny they'd load them down, 'cause that ship was really big. It was a monstrous ship. I forget how many decks on it, and, there were men just crowded on each (deck). And you was only supposed to have a certain area on that boat where you could go. And when the Colonel gave me that stateroom and told me to be subject to call at all times. He also gave me a pass where I could pass throughout the boat. I showed that (pass to my buddies and they said how lucky can you get)…And, that (is what) made it nice. I went down in the engine 31 room; saw those big turbines going. Oh, it was a noisy place down there. And all, all over the ship I went. Had a nice visit with some of my buddies down in the hole there, oh, and, yea...we came out of that all right. That...was a good ship, and over there without, with me just staying in the stateroom, why, I enjoyed it and being associated with, Major Kristopherson, why, it really passed the time away. GK: What happened after you got to the hospital? JD: Yea. After I got to the hospital, they examined me every day. And then, oh, about a week...after I arrived at the hospital, they moved me to what they called the casual camp. It was (for) men that was wounded, or deserted, or they got drunk, or they had a fight, and in the meantime after these things occurred to them, their regiment of troop had moved to a different sector. And, they put them all in these casual camps, and then they'd get messages from all these camps to be on lookout for Private so-and-so or Sergeant so-and-so or whoever it was…and…they (gave)…what outfit they belonged to and where were, where they were stationed. And every once in a while, oh, it I seems) there wasn't any specified time, but they'd call the Divisions, what Divisions they belonged to. And then they’d shoot them out in Divisions. And being a bugler there, I was the only bugler that ever got into that certain casual; camp, they told me. And this Captain, or Major (in) this casual camp wanted me to (sound) calls while I was there. So, I told him, "Yes, I'd be glad to." And so, I blew calls (for them)....Liverpool wasn't very far from this camp, and a lot of them would go down to (Liverpool). In fact, there's a big hedge around this hospital land) it included the casual camp. Great big hedge, and, and, in certain places there was a hole cut out where these guys had been, had cut a hole in this big hedge to get out. You couldn't get over it. It was, oh, I imagine…it was about 10, 11, 12 feet high, and it was thick... about 4 feet wide I imagine. So, they just cut a little hole out through the bottom. They'd get out of 32 that and go down to catch a ride and go down to Liverpool. And this Major, I asked him if I could go down to Liverpool and visit a while down there, and he said, "Sure," and he said "I'll give you a pass." And then he gave me a pass; and then he stopped and he looked at me and he said, "Let me see that pass." And he took it back and tore it up. And I thought, oh brother, my luck, bad luck's still with me. So he wrote out another pass and gave it to me, and I still got the pass. I believe I gave it to you. GK: I saw it. You showed it to me. JD: And it was for 24 hours. The rest of them were just from 7 to 10 or at night just 2 hours… GK: About 2 hours? JD: ...to 3 hours. But this pass he gave me was for 24 hours, and no date on it. I could use it; go down there anytime I wanted to. And he (did) that to get me to stay in that camp, or transfer over, or he could do something to keep me there; that I wasn't well to travel or something (like that), because it was part of the, that Notty Ash Hospital. The grounds were both the same, only the hospital was a big brick building and the casual camp was these O.D. pyramid tents, and we had to sleep in. GK: You were, had you turned 17 by this time; when you were in Casual Company? JD: Yes. No. GK: Because you said, you mentioned you… JD: No. No. I missed it just 13 days after I turned 16. GK: So, you're still 16 years old… JD: Right. 33 GK: …at this time? JD: Yes, yes. I (had) never been away from home before either. That was the bad part of it. (If) I'd had a little more travelling experience, why, I wouldn't have (been) confused on everything, but I was 16 and I believed everything everybody told me. Anyway, (they) finally…call the 40th Division, and I got in this box car. They shipped us all over. This… Legion has an organization (the) 4O and 8. Remember that? It's 8 of ox and 40 homes; (which) means 8 horses or cows, or 40 men. And that was in these box cars...I toured all of Prance. I crossed the English Channel; that was all right, and then I got in this here… GK: But then, let's see, you went from Liverpool to, did you go to London by train? JD: Uh, yes. Right. Oh yes. Oh, to the English Channel. GK: Yes. JD: Right. That's right, first. GK: Did you stop off in London. JD: Yes. No. Well, we stopped, but we didn't, couldn't get off the train. GK: You couldn't get off? JD: But we (received) a letter. I don't know what happened to mine, but we, I got a letter from King George, with his signature and his seal, and everything on it, a letter and then the envelope. They gave that to all the servicemen (who) passed through London I guess. GK: What did the, what was the letter; a welcome? JD: Welcome to England and wishing us a safe return to our native home, and things like that. It was pretty good. I don't know who I gave it…to…or what happened to it, but I was looking for it…quite 34 a while ago and I couldn't find it. But it was nice. It was about oh, about that square, about 5 inches square. GK: So, then you went down to the Channel. JD: Yes. We crossed the Channel and that was nice. Crossing the Channel was pretty good. We didn't have any trouble or anything. That was guarded too, real good. ...we landed at La Harve, France; and that's when I got in those box cars, French box cars. And they changed. We'd go, in fact when we got over in France, they'd never heard of the 4Oth Division, I guess they didn't, because nobody knew it, and I just went here (and) there, and then our train was bombed...it was shelled by these heavy German guns. It was the front end; the engine was all blown up and the first 4 cars of the train was blown off the track. We were further at the end there, so it didn't affect us at all; just jarred us, but not enough to cause any injuries or anything. But it made a lot of noise. GK: Was this first, or within a couple of days after you landed in France? JD: Yes it was. Yes. It must have been 2 days anyway. Anyway we…toured all over France. They'd go as far as they could to find these Divisions, where they were originally located. And then they'd go to another Division where (they were) located. Some of them were toward the southern France. Some were in northern France, and they were all over France; even Paris. We stopped over in Paris. I stayed at a YMCA building there. It was pretty good too. And all this time we had to go without anything to eat. They'd serve us oh, some kind of a soup, or we didn't call it soup...what was it they called that? Something like gook. But anyway it was nasty. I ate it because I had to. I was hungry. Then, this one box car we got in, we (were) crowded right in…the men just right up against us all over, and some of these box cars, when they'd hit these points where their Division was, then they'd turn them loose. They would get off and…there'd be 35 a truck there to pick them up and take them to where…they had to go. And a lot of them, when we'd stop at those stations, they'd get off…the box car; and all the stations had wine bottles, full of wine stacked up along in front of their buildings. And they'd go there and they'd get these wine bottles and put them in their shirts and… GK: Take it with them? JD: …take them…in the camp there; and the owner of the stores would come out waving his hands. Put me in mind of them, when I see them, in the movies, how these Frenchmen run around (doing) something that… GK: Wave their hands? JD: …yes, they'd wave their hands and scream and yak, yak, yak. They (would) stop the trains and we'd have to get out, and they'd search us to see who had the… GK: Who had the wine? JD: …yes. But finally (the) worse part was where I was standing…right above me it was raining, had a big hole in the roof, right in…the corner, and I was right at…the end of the car. And you couldn't move. You just had to… {REEL NUMBER 3. (Side 2, Reel #2)} GK: O.K. Mr. Drysdale. You were mentioning that you were in the box car. JD: Oh, yes. And this roof had a big hole in it, and the rain came down right through there, and it was just hitting my helmet all the time, just hour after hour. My shoulders were all wet. Boy, I was really disgusted. I never spent such a miserable life…way of life…as I did in those box cars. 36 GK: How long did this…journeying around France, to find your outfit, how long did this take? How long were you in the box cars? JD: Well, it took a good 3 weeks I imagine. I didn't count it right, but I know 1 was in there a long time. And I had different men in there with me at different times. We’d pick them up on the route and take them over to where they were going and things like that. THE FOLLOWING IS NOT ON THE TAPE, BUT WAS INSERTED BY MR. DRYSDALE DURING EDITING. This was about the time the flu epidemic hit us in France. They took us off the box cars and put us in what looked like a big barn or Quonset hut. It was all dirt inside; no flooring, and the roof leaked something awful. We were all lined up on both sides of this building; that is we lay in a little narrow mattress placed on the ground. There were about 20 to 30 men on each side of this building. I think we were exposed to the cold; the ground was real damp from incessant rains. Many became sick and quite a few died. The ones that had the flu were delirious and out of their heads. It was awful to hear what they were saying. It really scared me to see so many of them being carried outside. They finally figured it out that we were packed in too close to each other; so they moved about half of us outside into pup tents. That didn't help because those small tents weren't heated; we were cold all the time. When my name was called, I could have yelled for joy! I was really glad to leave that place. There must have been hundreds of the buddies (who died) in that place. GK: So where did you finally find your outfit? JD: Well, I forget now what town it was. I got in there and then, it was close to camp because they sent a truck down to this station and picked me up. It's funny you asked that. I, I don't remember 37 that town, but I can picture it, but I never did get its name. I guess I was too excited to…get out of that box car and get some fresh air. See, they never cleaned them out. They'd…they'd haul cattle in it and there'd be cattle droppings all on the floor in there, and you'd just wade in that; and when it rained, why, oh brother, it really smelled in there. Anyway, I was glad to get out, and this truck come down and picked me up and took me to camp. And I got there at night. It was about 8 or 9 o'clock that night when I....went in this barracks, why, boy, they yelled at me and they said, "It's Joe, he's back, Joe is back! He didn't go home. He come back here!" Oh, it was just quite a reunion! ...yes. It sure was, yes…when…I didn't show up, why, they thought I’d done something on the ship, and the ship turned around and took me back to the states. Anyway, they kidded me a lot about that too. But they were glad to see me back; and believe me, I was glad to get back. And while we was in there, that was at Bordeaux, Prance, where they, where all…stationed just outside of Bordeaux, like our Camp Kearny was to San Diego. It's more in the hills. We were stationed there and all the time the time I was there. And they told me this too, that it was just awful (for) intensive training there at that camp. It was a debarkation camp, where they came and where they left. They used it for two purposes. And we had to train with our guns and also gas. They stressed gas very strong over there. You had to be prepared for this gas attack all the time. And I brought my gas mask back with me. I'll tell you about that later I guess. And on it I wrote all the places that I'd been, from Fort Douglas until I got home. It was all wrote on the outside of this (gas mask). And we had a party at the Veterans of Foreign Wars hall; the World War I veterans did. I was commander at the time, and I had them bring down souvenirs, and we put them along the walls. German guns, and oh, everything, gas masks and everything, and when I went to get my gas mask, it was gone. Somebody stole it…after I'd carried it all that time with me and everything and I kept it in perfect condition. I still had the little black book in there of instructions 38 of...how it was made, how it was assembled and all about it. Plus all the towns and all the places I'd been to over in France. GK: That's too bad. JD: Anyway, it was really tough going over there in that Bordeaux Camp, but it was for our own good. I know that. It was good. They had a firing problem over there, and they put me on it. It was the first time that I'd had that duty, which I was qualified for. I trained for it. And I was a signal Sergeant that went with the (squad). I was stationed with the 160th Infantry. And what I was to do, was to (send a message from the front to the rear). I had a shell hole, and I had a recorder and a runner. There's three of us and we dug a hole in the side of this shell hole, kind of a platform, and we put our phone in there. And then the recorder had one of these clip boards, and he write down everything I'd say, because it had to be repeated, and it had to be repeated word for word. So, while X was doing \the message) there, (I was on the )...firing range, I must have been there about 7 days easy, or 10 days, something like that. Anyway, one night...it was night firing, and what we had (was a) plane above us that would signal down to us and we'd signal them with white strips of canvas They were, oh, 7 or 8 feet wide, and it was about 15 or 20 feet long… And we'd lay them down in different angles. I'd lay 3 parallel to each other. It would be angle of sight, and one laid down would be over, and 2 laid down would be under. That is they'd be shooting into the infantry instead of where their…point was. And then our guns, they'd…our telephone, they went from our shell hole to the battery commander or the battery Sergeant; who's ever in charge of that battery phone. And anyway why, when we had that, in the shell hole that night; and there's no light. We couldn't make any kind of a light or anything. We had a candle in there, but we'd put our hand over it to keep the light from shining or the enemy airplanes seeing it 39 or any light at all, and kind of shade (it) and then the recorder would record what message we had to take. GK: Were those phones pretty dependable, or did they… JD: Well, I'll tell you about it. They were alright. They were for the purpose. They served a purpose, O.K. Anyway, we were getting along good in that shell hole that night, and all of a sudden we heard some commotion coming (from) outside the shell hole, and the recorder raised up like this, and I (grabbed) him and shook my head no, and went like this…to motion to him to stay down…not to stick his head out. And so he stayed there and all of sudden some guy come out of there and fell right in our shell hole. And he fell over the recorder and the operator, and I was kind of out to the side. He was right by my feet there shuffling in there. Anyway, we got him; he started swearing in English, and right away we knew he was American, and I hollered at him, and I says, "Are you American?" And he said, "God damn right I am!" So, we let him up, and it was some guy from Texas. He was a big guy, and, brother, he was thrashing his feet around in there. It really scared us, but we had this line that went from our telephone to the battery Commander; the line went like this here and every once in a while the enemy shells would come over and (hit; and break our line. These shells just blew all directions. So, then we had to get the line in our hand like this here, and get out of the shell hole and go on our bellies and crawl until we got to the end where the break was, and then I'd give this line to the recorder of the runner, whichever one was with me, and then I'd circulate alone to find where the other end was because it was blown. When (the shell hit the line, it would blow one line over 150 to 250 yards apart)…and then we'd find that and we'd have to splice it, and then we'd crawl back to the (shell hole). Then our messages all had to be repeated from the battery to us. Then we also had a light that we had...to use. It was like a flashlight, and it had a little switch underneath it, and we sent dot and dash on it, and 40 we'd send that from the front to the rear. We never sent it the other way because the light would show (or)…shine to the enemy, and they'd see it. It had to be from our front to the rear. But we didn't have to use that much. Anyway, why, when we (had) we'd get a call from the battery (Commander) to use it. It was a troop }. That was our code; or troop 3. They'd change it, they'd all change in sequence like 1, 2, 3, 5 and it'd go 1, 2, 3, k$ 7, whatever the series were. And they'd say code I4., they'd say...they'd say battery 1, and then, then I'd say battery 1, and then this recorder would write battery 1. And he'd say "Ready, fire." And I'd say "Ready, fire." And we'd count…1, 2, 3, 4, fire. And then when we say "Fire," why, we'd just raise our head up and see where that shell lit. If it was over, under, center, or wherever it was, and then the recorder would report it back to the battery Commander. Said, "Gun number 5, over 50 feet, 25 feet left, right, or what it was. That was quite interesting and it was exciting, but it wasn't like being home. …while we were at Bordeaux, there was training. We just had pup tents. There was two to a pup tent, and we lived in those pup tents for, oh, for 3 or 4 months before we had orders to go to the front. And (this guy and I started thinking…) he was a man from Logan, Utah. We had to crawl in these pup tents, they weren't very tall where the pole was; it was about 3 feet from the ground, and we had to…crawl in them. And so we figured, why couldn't we dig this ground out underneath here, and make it bigger for us...I got the idea and I said, "Even on the sides of this bank, that hole we dig, we could make little shelves in there for us too." I forget his name, Wallace, I think was his second, last name, and he said, "Yes, we would." So we got our little shovels out and dug the bottom of this pup tent, oh, we went down about 3 or 4 feet, and we could stand up in this where the bottom of the pole was to their right in the tent. It was really nice, and we had all the comforts of home. GK: Made your own trenches… 41 JD: Yes. GK: …so to speak. JD: Yes. And then we dug out on the side, and then we put candles in these little slots that we'd dug out so we could have light in our pup tent. And everything like that made it nice. Anyway, we had an inspection and this inspecting officer came down to our tent, and looked in there, and, well, he took his hat off and looked in there, and he was just dumbfounded. He couldn't figure it out, and then pretty soon he said, "You get the dirt you took out of here and put it back in there." He said, "Now, not later. Now, do it now." So, we had to get some more canvas, and we put this dirt in this canvas and packed it over to our pup tent, and threw it down in the hole and patted it down; and one day in there it rained, and the rain came in on us. And, oh, brother, that was bad. But it…seeped away. It didn't stay. It made our shoes muddy and everything, but we had all the comforts of home there for a little while, while it lasted. We had the only tent in that whole Division that was dug out. GK: Were you still at this time the bugler for your outfit? JD: Right. GK: O.K. in addition to these other things? JD: Right, right. Yes. I was still bugler; all the way from the Mexican Border to, from Boy Scouts right on up till I came home. Now I'm bugler for our battery or barracks. GK: What, how long were you at Bordeaux? JD: Let's see. Well, they were there quite a while before I got there…it was, wait a minute, because we spent Christmas on the troop ship coming home. GK: That'd be Christmas of 1918? 42 JD: 1918…January. January of 1919. That is, we were home in January, first of January 1919. So, we were on the boat in 1918. GK: So, when you first got to Bordeaux, it was sometime in 1917. Is this correct? JD: No. It was 1918. GK: 1918. Alright, did you go to any other place beside Bordeaux, did your outfit go? JD: No. We had all of our training, and we were in excellent shape physically, and in training, and we had our orders to move up to the front. It was in Belgium, we were headed for, and just before we left we got our orders to cancel; got cancellation of orders. And then we stayed there for a little while, and then we got orders to come home because we were by Bordeaux, the border there on the English Channel, and they needed all of the Channel space they could, to move all of the soldiers out of France as quickly as possible. So being where we were, we were fortunate enough to get out of there before going to the front. Well, we just made it. GK: Then, where were you when the Armistice became effective in November, 1918? JD: Bordeaux. GK: You were still in Bordeaux then? JD: Right. GK: What was your reaction to, and the rest of the outfit’s reaction to…? JD: We didn't believe it…No. It was just as quiet as a mouse there, and finally it did dawn on us, but that was the day after. Why, we celebrated more that day than we did Armistice Day. GK: Oh, I see, November 12, then you celebrated more. 43 JD: Yea. We knew it was real then…Yes. But in the service, and especially overseas, why, you'd get rumors, and rumors, and rumors. Some guys would just them just to hear others repeat it and see them believe it. GK: So, then November to December wasn't very long before you were going back to the United States then? JD: Yes. GK: What ship did you go back to the United States? JD: We came back on an American ship, the (U.S.S.) Santa Teresa; and that was a rough trip. When we left Prance, we were off the coast of Spain, and we hit that rough water in there. They say that really is rough through there. And there was just a storm, and the Santa Teresa was converted transport that they built tiers on top of each other to make room for these transports. And when we hit that storm, this ship would, as it hit a wave, it'd just rock way over like it was going to tip over, and then it would come back way over like this, and it'd just roll like that; even after the waves had quietened down. This cockeyed ship was still a rolling like that, and then it'd gradually slow up, and then a big wave would hit it and then it'd start its movements all over. And everybody was sick on that thing. I was up on deck there, and the top deck, next to the top I guess it was, and this (ship) when it went to start rocking, it'd roll and then go side to side. Well, when it tipped to the right, say, way down the bottom deck was, way out, out in here, and all these guys was lined up along the railing just heaving just as hard as they could heave. And when they'd heave, the boat would go back here and here would be the guys down here, and they'd heave and they'd just go down and the wind would just whip it right across it. GK: Oh, you had a rough time! 44 JD: Oh, it was a mess. I remember that. I was sure glad I was up (on top). But I, was one of the lucky ones on that sea sickness because it didn't hit me until, oh, it was way out in the middle of the ocean I guess, before that storm let up. And then it hit me, but it just went for a little while, it didn't stay with me long. GK: So you came back to the country, in the United States in 1919. JD: 1919 yes. GK: January. What did you do after that? JD: Well, we come right from (Camp Mills) on a train. We crossed the Great Lakes. It's funny...when we left to go to New York, we took the southern route through Texas and Mississippi and up the East coast; and when we come back, we come back through the northern states. It was just luck that we did that, but it was distinctly different. Instead of coming through the middle why… GK: So, you saw a lot of the country. JD: Yes, we come back through the states and Nebraska and then we hit Ogden, and then we stayed, we had a delay in Ogden here. (We met) our relatives and friends. And then we got back on the train again, and we went to Logan to the U.A.C. College, and after we were there, well, there for a, oh, about a day, two days, the rumor started that some ladies organization had placed money in bills in our ticks. There were straw in all these ticks. These ticks were oh, it was about 6 feet long and then they were wide at the head, then they tapered 'bout to, oh, I'd say close to 3 feet wide at the top. And then at the foot they tapered, narrowed in to, oh, about 2 feet. GK: These ticks were they mattresses? JD: Canvas. Uh-huh. Mattresses. They were canvas. They were about that thick. Anyway, the rumor got around there that there was money in these ticks, and we hadn't been paid for months. And 45 when it (spread) that there was money in these ticks, why, everybody started opening these canvas things and throwing this straw out, and oh, that room was a mess up there. Oh, straw all over, and there was no money in there. GK: Just another wild rumor. JD: Yes. And then…we got our discharge right there at Logan, and we got on the train and come home. GK: To Ogden? JD: They gave us travelling expenses. GK: You finally get paid? JD: No. GK: In back pay? JD: No, no, no. That was just travelling expenses... They did all servicemen, wherever you enlist, wherever else you're discharge, you get travelling expenses from that point to a point of enlistment. So, we enlisted in Ogden, so we got paid to Ogden. GK: What did you do right after that? JD: Oh. GK: I imagine it was-life must have been a little tame. Here you were… JD: Yes. GK: …18 years old and been through 2 sort of, well the Mexican troubles and World War I. 46 JD: Well, it was funny, but it didn't hit me as strange. What hit me was that I was so happy to get home, that I didn't have to go through all this rigmarole I had to go through before, and fighting and killing and this gas, mustard gas and everything we had to put up with. I didn't like that. I was just glad to get home. I don't know what job I had when I got home. I know I worked for the theaters…I worked on the door first, and then I helped the janitor, and then I got into the advertising for the Ogden and Egyptian theaters. And then when Fow West Coast took over, I got to be assistant manager of it. And then I stayed there for quite a while until 1 went to work for the government. GK: You got married in 1921? JD: Right. GK: What is your wife's name? JD: Oram…Virgie Oram…her father was a railroad man, conductor for the Union Pacific, or Southern Pacific he worked for. GK: How many children have you? JD: Three. Yes two boys and one girl. GK: Do they all live here in Ogden? JD: All of them have been in the service. My daughter was an Ensign in the Navy, and my boy retired, oldest boy retired as a Senior Master Sergeant in the Air Force, and my young boy retired as a Duty Sergeant in the Air Force. GK: And you retired from Hill Field? JD: Yes. 47 GK: What was your position out at Hill (Air Force Base)? JD: I was a unit item manager. That is one of them. I had several… GK: Several positions… You retired in 1966… JD: I was a staff officer, and had men under me, and when I was in charge of location, that was all the items in our field service division, and that took in a lot of items. GK: When did you retire from government service? JD: In sixty, I retired 13th of September, 1966 from Hill Field with 30years service. GK: Mr. Drysdale, I wonder if you can get your bugle out and would you mind playing a few bugle calls that you played during the Mexican troubles and World War I? JD: Well, I can try to. I didn't expect to though. GK: O.K. go ahead. JD: While we got a break here, I'd like to read the time of the calls from the manual of the bugle for practically all of the services. "At daybreak, the hour and minute being specified in post orders, the musician of the guard sounds First Gall. Ten of fifteen minutes later as the morning gun is fired; the assembled musicians play a march if orders are so specified, while the troops form before their barracks or tents. Reveille and Assembly are then sounded followed by a roll call of the troops and reports by the ranking non-commissioned officers to the officer of the day showing the organization present or the amount of absentees, one half hour later, mess call is sounded by the musicians of the guard. After breakfast, Stable Call, Water Call, and Sick Call followed by Fatigue Call are sounded by the musicians of the guard at such hour and minute as posted orders prescribed. At times, drill, parade, and guard mounting are held in the mornings and afternoons. First Call is sounded for the parade and Guard Mounting Call for guard mount. Each 48 of these are followed by assembly in ten or fifteen minutes and by Adjutants Call a few minutes later on signal from the adjutant. The Adjutants Call is sounded for drill only when companies are combined into battalions. Recall is sounded at 11:30 a.m. First Sergeants Call and Officers Call at 11:45 a.m. but they may be sounded at any time of the day or night, and Mess Call is sounded for breakfast, dinner, supper. At 1 o'clock, Fatigue Call is again sounded, followed by School Call if required. Stable and Water Calls at 3:30. Recall at 4:30 or 4 o'clock according to the season. First Call for retreat or parade is sounded just before sunset or at such hour as the list of calls directs; followed by assembly and retreat. After the formation of before according to the season Mess Call is again sounded. Tattoo at 9 p.m. Call to Quarters at 10:45 p.m. and taps at 11 p.m." I might add that the last three calls that I mentioned, tattoo is sounded at 9 p.m. and it means that all real loud noise, and anyone, strangers in camp must leave the camp grounds. Call to Quarters is for any of the members of the organization that's absent from their tent, to report to their own specified tent and prepare for retiring. Taps at 11 p.m. means that all lights in the regiment or the barracks must be extinguished, and all loud noise, singing must cease for the evening. GK: Mr. Drysdale will play reveille, the first call in the morning. Next, the call is water, the call to water horses in the Calvary. The next call is to arms. The next call is fire call. The next call is a Calvary call to horse. This call is tattoo, played in evening time at 9 o'clock. Mr. Drysdale is the official bugler for the World War I Veterans organization, Barracks 1011 in Ogden, Utah, and amongst his duties is playing taps for deceased World War I Veterans. Now this call is mess call and will be played on the original trumpet issued to Mr. Drysdale in World War I. Now this also will be on the World War I bugle, and this call is assembly. Mr. Drysdale will play a march called, You Have 49 Got 3 Years To Do This In. Alright, Mr. Drysdale will give his own version of this same march. Thank you very much Mr. Drysdale. 50