Oral History Program Rosamond Demman Interviewed by Evelyn Bertilson 18 August 1980 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Rosamond Demman Interviewed by Evelyn Bertilson 18 August 1980 Copyright © 2012 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. 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It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Demman, Rosamond, an oral history by Evelyn Bertilson, 18 August 1980, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Rosamond Demman. The interview was conducted on August 18, 1980, by Evelyn Bertilson, at Warm Springs, Idaho. Demman discusses her family and her personal history. EB: I'm interviewing today, August 18, .1980, Rosamond Demman. We're here in Sun Valley, Idaho on vacation and we're visiting about the Rathbone family. Here is a family chart of the Rathbone side. Grandfather Isaac . . . RD: Now this brings back something. The Giddeon Rathbone and the father was Edmund. I remember hearing about that and then there was Maria. So Grandfather Rathbone came from a family of eleven children. They were born in Illinois. Isaac was born in Illinois, McLean County. EB: Some of this information was gleaned from an account of a pioneer reunion--a family reunion. It's a newspaper account and that's where I was able to get some of this. RD: Now there, Giddeon's wife Eliza Howell was born in Hardin County, Kentucky and died in Hardin County, Iowa—now isn't that interesting. EB: And there's a third Hardin County that figures in here where Frank Reed who, of course, wasn't a Rathbone but fought at Pittsburgh Landing which is in Hardin County, Tennessee and the battle of Shiloh. Lincoln was born in Hardin County, Kentucky. Here's the Reed family. And Ruben, he died in April of 1849 prior to your grandmother's birth in September of 1849. RD: He died young, didn't he? What, 32? So Grandmother Rathbone had Frank, Lemuel, Theresa, and Harriet. That was a small family comparatively. 1 EB: But then he died when he was 32. And then Elizabeth… RD: She was a Cackler. EB: Which was a prominent family in Kent, Ohio and her father fought in the War of 1812 and his father fought in the Revolutionary War--so it goes back that far. RD: Now there, who was it that married Anna? EB: Frank. Frank married her on the 17th of August and died 13 days later, and we don't know right now what those circumstances were. I feel confident that I'm going to find out. RD: I'm sure you will. Now, there's Lemuel who married Celestual (?) Russell and that Russell name crops up in the Rathbone family too, doesn't it? EB: Not only that. This Russell, one of their children marries a Russell and that's the cousin that's in Harden, Montana. RD: Oh, that's the family that's up there. EB: And I remember Marjorie visiting with a cousin in Harden, Montana and it's a Russell and I think that's ironic. I don't know what the association is. RD: This brings back some things. I can't quite put them together, but from the Round Robin letters that my father used to get and my mother continued for a while after he died, I know there were contributors to that letter from Montana Harden County sounds familiar. EB: It's not Harden County, just Harden, Montana. RD: Just Harden, Montana. 2 EB: Yes, and it's very near Custer's battlefield. RD: All right, then there was a Rathbone girl from up in Montana who married an Ed Merit from Red Oak (Iowa). He was a doctor and then they later moved to Washington, D.C. and he was a doctor back there. But her family came from Montana. I remember the Russell name from Montana. EB: We've got their pictures labeled with the Russell name and Marj knew also that they were from Montana. RD: I remember knowing that it was Ed Merit and his wife. I think he was practicing medicine in Omaha or in Council Bluffs before he moved to Washington, D.C. I remember meeting them once or twice. Too bad Mother isn't around! EB: Just tell me, for the record, what you do remember about your grandmother. She lived in Lincoln, Nebraska? RD: When I was born and knew that . . . EB: Where were you born? RD: In Red Oak. EB: You were born in Red Oak, so your father had the store . . . RD: Yes. My father was born in Steamboat Rock, Iowa. And he came to Red Oak to work in the store called Merell's. And my mother, who was born in Eastern Iowa, was a milliner, and she came to Red Oak as a milliner and the same store and that's where they met. They were married back in Iowa where her folks are still living. Then not long afterwards, her father and mother moved to Red Oak and my Grandfather Muse and my father entered into a partnership into what was known then as a Dry Goods Store. It had 3 piece goods, ready to wear, stockings, and all sorts of things like that. And my mother was ill after I was born, according to what she told me. They didn't expect her to live. She had one kidney removed right afterwards. We had what we called then a hired girl and I spent a lot of my time with my Grandmother Muse, too. Then I remember going to Lincoln to visit my Grandma and Grandpa Rathbone and, of course, Aunt Florence and Uncle Burt and Marjorie and Vernon. I think Max was born after they went to Washington, wasn't it? Was he born back there, too, in Lincoln? EB: Vernon was born in Lincoln. They made the move to Washington where Marjorie was born in Washington and then they moved back and Max was born back in Lincoln. And then, I don't know, maybe you can remember at what age she and the whole family moved to Washington permanently. RD: Well, I think Marjorie and I were about five years old when they moved permanently. Was Max that much younger than Marjorie? EB: I think there was about three years . . . RD: Three years, yes. Well, as I recall, we were around five and six years old when they moved to Washington permanently. But I remember going over to Lincoln and while my father and mother used to stay with Grandmother and Grandfather Rathbone, we used to, Phillip and I, used to go over to Aunt Florence's. So we had Vernon and Marjorie to play with. That's why Marjorie and I became so close really. And then when they moved, we (Marjorie and I) would write. I guess before we were able to write--our mothers would write for us--but we always kept in touch and sent pictures. Let's see, I think Aunt Nell and Uncle Ursie went out to Washington before them. I don't remember that much about them. I remember that Ruth (Nell and Ursie's daughter) was much older than 4 Marjorie and I were. I used to write to Ruth too quite a bit. When we were younger--but then Grandpa Rathbone had a stroke--I know Marjorie mentioned that the letter I have of Isaac writing to his son Mort mentioned that he was having trouble breathing and I don't remember this heart or breathing trouble he could have had, but I do remember that he had a stroke and that he was such a large man and he was really quite helpless and had to be moved and lifted and so on. I can remember my father going on the train over to Lincoln Saturday night on the late train and come back Sunday to help care for his father and give Grandmother Rathbone a rest- Some of the time Mother, Phillip and I would go with him. I remember Grandmother Rathbone, of course. She was a rather large woman, as being stern and Grandfather Rathbone as being, of course, he played with us a little more. Now Marjorie remembers Grandmother Rathbone quite differently, but she lived out there with them and got better acquainted. Then, of course, Grandfather Rathbone died and Grandmother Rathbone moved to Washington within a year with Uncle Rob. I remember Uncle Rob,—he used to come over and visit us in Red Oak occasionally, but they moved to Washington to be with Uncle Chester, Aunt Florence, and Aunt Nell. Then my father died in 1921. I was 9 years old and I had been quarantined with scarlet fever and in those days they quarantined you for four weeks. My brother had it six weeks before I did and then I got it. And Mother was in quarantine with me and Phillip and my father was staying with Grandfather and Grandmother Muse. And I was just about over with it, the four weeks were just about up and my father had talked to Mother on the outside of the house that evening and later, oh about 10 or 11 o'clock the doctor called Mother and said that my father had had a stroke, cerebral hemorrhage, and he was sending the police up to fumigate us and let us out. He would 5 let Mother come immediately, but I would have to go to a neighbor's house and take a bath and wash my hair with Lysol and I had long hair in those days. I would have to borrow some clothes because they wouldn't let any of my clothes out. So I can remember going to a neighbor's home and there was a girl there near my age, so I borrowed some of her clothes. Then we went down to my grandmother's home and I can remember being taken in and they said, "Come in and see your father," and I really believe he was dead then. And I was told to go upstairs and go to sleep right away. And can you imagine a 9 year old doing that when they knew something was going on? And I remember asking where Mother was and they said, "Oh, you can't see her," and then I said, "Where's Phillip?" They said that he was next door at a neighbor's house. I didn't sleep; I just waited in the room until morning. Somebody came along with some clothes and told me that my house had been fumigated and that I could go home. And I looked at him and said, "Now my father's dead, isn't he?" And they said, "Oh, you mustn’t talk about such things." Then we were up in our home when Grandmother Rathbone came back. I can't remember, but it seemed to me that Uncle Chester came with her. EB: Now, they've come from Washington State? RD: Yes, state. EB: To Red Oak? RD: Yes. Now I don't think Aunt Florence or Aunt Nell came—I'm sure because of the children and Rob wasn't able to. It seems to me that Uncle Chester came and Uncle Hubert and Harry came over from Lincoln. But I remember waking up that morning and Grandmother Rathbone saying that Rosamond must know that my father is dead and that's why she was there. And I said, "Yes, but nobody's really told me." And she stayed 6 a week or so and I think she went over to Lincoln with Uncle Hubert and then back to Washington. Then I never saw her again. Mother corresponded all of the time and then—all I remember is that Grandmother Rathbone died. EB: Well, she died the next year; she died in 1922. RD: Was it that close? EB: Well, December of '22. RD: Oh, I see, so it would be June of '21 to December of '22. I know she didn't live much longer. And I had some correspondence after her death because the attorney had to— because of Phillip and me being the children of my father--they had to include us or get waver or whatever. EB: Upon her death and her estate, I see. RD: And I do have quite a few of those letters among Mother's things that the attorney wrote. And I have a letter from Aunt Nell saying that the estate had been settled with a check that was to be Phillip's and my inheritance. I know Mother kept in close contact with letters with Aunt. Florence and Aunt Nell always. And as I said, Stella, Chester's wife, had relatives there in Red Oak and she used to come back quite regularly until she died and then Dorothy used to come back. EB: Ursie's daughter? RD: No, Chester's daughter married Elton Howell. She came back quite often. I think it was 1950 when Joe and I drove up there. We stayed with Aunt Florence and we went over to Dorothy and Elton's home in Marysville. And that was the last I saw Dorothy. When did she die? Is there any record? 7 EB: I don't know. It's recent, I know that. RD: Well, we were there again and we may have seen her then. It seems to me that maybe we were over there a couple times. We were there in '50 and in '57 or '58. EB: You were there--you weren't at our wedding? RD: No. EB: But you were there around the time of our wedding or soon after. We were married in '57 and I knew I had met you either before or soon after our marriage. I remember the brown luncheon cloth you sent. RD: Yes. Let's see. We would have been there in June--middle or latter part in '57. EB: And we were married in September of '57. RD: So we went to Vancouver and then drove down there. EB: Let's see, Marjorie and Hal would have—had they made their move to Spokane yet? RD: They hadn't. Wasn't it someplace else after they left Everett? EB: They went from Everett to Chico, California, and they were there for less than a year. It was just a matter of months. They decided that they did not like the weather or the business. Then they moved directly to Spokane. RD: I remember it was that summer that they had a cottage over on Camino (Island) and we were over there. EB: Oh, okay then, because I'm sure . . . RD: Yes, that's where I met you. 8 EB: Probably. RD: Everybody was there. EB: Yes, we went there for a number of years. They had gone for a number of years and we had gone there for years after. We have pictures of Anna as a baby at the beach up there and Nancy and Vicki in the ishi-gish with Anna—mud up to their chests. RD: I remember Max was there, Max and his wife and Pat and Mike. EB: Right, that would be it. RD: I remember Pat and Mike went out and got some driftwood and we smoking it. I think Vernon was there, but I don't remember Erma coming. I think I didn't--well, I know the first time in '50 when we were up there the family had a picnic and that was when Aunt Nell and Uncle Ursie and Ruth and the Akins--that's the one who lived just down the road from Aunt Florence and that was Uncle Ursie's daughter by marriage-- they were all there. Vernon was there with Sandra. She was just a little girl, but Erma didn't come. It seemed to me that time over on Camino Island, Erma didn't come then either. I think the first I met Erma was when I went to Seattle for a convention and Vernon and Erma came down and got me at the hotel on Friday afternoon and I went up and stayed with them and then we went out to Aunt Florence's on Saturday and I stayed there, and then Vernon came and took me to the airport in Seattle with Aunt Florence, Uncle Burt, and Erma. We stopped to see Sandy on the way. I think she was married then, living in Seattle. And then Joe and I came down there in '66, '67, '68--around in there. We drove into Everett and we went out to see Vernon and Erma then. And then we drove on to Spokane to see Marjorie and Hal. I guess that's the last time we've been up there in that 9 country. I didn't have as much contact with Grandmother Rathbone as Marjorie would have had because of her living with Aunt Florence there. EB: As I understand it she had a separate house. RD: Yes, that's right. EB: And Marjorie said that she and her brothers would vie for the privilege of walking up to Grandma's and staying all night. And that one of the children could stay each night. And soon it got old hat with the boys and they didn't want to go as much so she' got to go much of the time. RD: Yes, Aunt Florence and Uncle Burt lived closer down to Lakewood. And after Grandmother Rathbone died, Aunt Florence and Uncle Burt moved in there to take care of Uncle Rob. I think . . . EB: Grandmother Rathbone willed the house . . . RD: Yes, she willed the house to Florence to take care of Rob as long as he lived. EB: Tell me more about Rob. He was injured, Marjorie told me that. RD: Yes. EB: He was an invalid in a certain way; socially he may have been an invalid also. RD: There again it was sort of one of those things that you didn't talk about in those days. Grandmother Rathbone was very protective of Uncle Rob. And I think there may have been what we would now call, really, a mental handicap as well as a physical. Mow I really don't know in what way. There again, Mother would have known more about it 10 than I. I just always knew that Uncle Rob was an invalid and had to be taken care of and looked after. I think Grandmother Rathbone was extremely protective of him. EB: He was her first born… RD: Right. I can remember once or twice they put him on the train and he came over to Red Oak. My father went to the station to meet him. I really don't remember much about him or too much association. Mow my father had horses. Every place we lived we had a barn. Now he had trotting horses and he used to race them at the Montgomery County Fair. He was president of that association and secretary of fair association. He had one of those sulkies and every Sunday morning he'd go down to the track and exercise the horses. And, of course, the highlight was to be able to sit on my father's lap while he exercised the horses. But we never dared go near the barn unless Mother or Dad were there. We weren't to excite the horses or we were never to go near the stalls because they might kick us or something like that. I have pictures of some of his horses and some of them were quite famous, really. And I can remember that Dad used to take Uncle Rob with him out to the fairgrounds to help groom the horses. But that's really all I remember of him--he was sort of kept in the background. In those days people didn't understand these things. Maybe he could have been helped, I don't know. .I really don't know how serious it was. EB: Marjorie relates that he was kicked by a horse. It's interesting that your association is with horses too. Kicked by a horse and he had ulcerated legs that had to be taped and bandaged. Now, whether her memories are of later, his later existence, but it had something to do with having been kicked by a horse. 11 RD: I don't know if—I really don't remember that and I don't really know what the problem was except that Uncle Rob wasn't well and he had to be protected, looked after, and taken care of. I don't know if that could have happened back in Nebraska or after he got out to Washington. EB: Well, I would assume… RD: It was back while they were in Nebraska. EB: Yeah, well I assumed that that was the cause…the start of the… RD: Yeah. EB: Yeah, now I wanted to get more information from you about Uncle Hubert. Now, he never went out west… RD: No. He stayed… (Side 1 over, beginning of Side 2) RD: Uncle Hubert, I think, worked around the depot or with Grandpa Rathbone. And then he went into some other type of laboring job and I don't remember just what. And then he married Lizzy, I don't know her last name, but Mort would surely remember that. And they had one son--no, they don't have the last name. I'm sure that's something Mort would know because she had family in Lincoln. Yes, he would know Aunt Lizzy's last name. They had one son and that was Paul who was about the same age then as Phillip and Vernon. He may have been slightly older, but he was around that age. Phillip used to go over to Lincoln and visit with Uncle Hubert, Aunt Lizzy, and Paul. Then, I think, Uncle Hubert was still alive when Paul drowned. When did he die? 12 EB: Hubert died in 1949. I think that's true because I've read the obituary for Paul and I feel certain that he was alive at that time. RD: Yes, because Phillip died in '48 and it wasn't too many months after that—it could have been the same summer of '48 that Paul was drowned. And if Hubert died right afterwards that would be '49 and make it about right. It could have been the summer of '48 that Paul died. I've got to ask Mort for Lizzy's last name, too. And then Aunt Lizzy, she lived quite—she lived quite a bit. Because I remember I went over with Mother to Lincoln to see her. It seems to me that she was in a rest home. But Mort and Elizabeth (Marjorie?) kept in close contact with her. And Mort knew quite a bit about her and what happened to her. EB: I'll have to check. That was quite devastating, Paul's death. He was drowned . . . RD: As I recall, I really can't remember too much about it. Let's see--'49-- I was out here (Utah). No, '48. And I guess all we knew was what Lizzy wrote and what Elizabeth wrote to Mother. Well, Mort still insists there are some questions unanswered, but Mort thinks it was more of a suicide attempt. However, I do remember that he was out on a lake and a wind came up. But I'll have to get m o r e . . . EB: Now, was Paul married? Did he have children? RD: Paul was married, but he had no children. And I don't think it was a particularly happy marriage, somewhat like my brother and his wife. She, I've been, trying to think of her name all afternoon, well, she left Lincoln and never kept in touch with Aunt Lizzy. But there again, I'd have to ask Mort--Mort and Marjorie--about those circumstances because they would remember more being there, they would remember . . . 13 EB: Well, yeah. RD: I'm about ready to say her name, but I can't. Paul was Uncle Hubert's only child and Paul had no children. And then Harry married Elizabeth Hill and they had just one son, Mortimer Ardine (or R. Dean). Mort, I think, was only about six when Harry died. When Harry and Elizabeth were married, my father was still alive. They came to Red Oak on their honeymoon. I remember that. And before that, Harry was, you know, single. He was younger, much younger and my mother had a brother who was single at the time and much younger, Forest Muse. And those two always seemed like older brothers to Phillip and me rather than uncles. They would always play around with u s . _ I never called Harry "Uncle Harry"; it was always just “Harry and Elizabeth." Mother and I used to, after Father died, go over to Lincoln and visit Harry and Elizabeth, and Uncle Hubert and Aunt Lizzy. Then after . . . Harry died--it was meningitis--Elizabeth had, and I can't remember if it was an uncle, but he kind of took Mort under his wing and provided the male image for him... Then I remember later, I guess I was in college, no, I was teaching cause I had my own car. It must have been after my stepfather died . . . because Mother and I went over to Lincoln to see Elizabeth, And Elizabeth asked me--I guess it was Sunday--if I would take Mort over to Sunday school, and I said yes I would. And I can remember pointing my finger at him and saying, "Mort, I'll be here at such and such a time and you be here. You stand in the doorway so I can see you." Well, I went back after him and he was nowhere to be found. I went in and searched the church and no one remembered anything about him or where he had gone. So I went back and told Elizabeth, and we went out and looked in all of the parks and all of the places we thought he might have gone and all of a sudden Elizabeth thought of this path. She 14 called him. Mort had never gone to Sunday school. He had just gone in one door and out the other down the path. And I'm always kidding Mort about this--all of the trouble he caused, all of us spending our whole Sunday afternoon out looking for him. Whenever Mort used to get cross with his children, I used to say, "Now Mort, do you want me to tell you a b o u t … " O f course Mort was like a young brother or nephew to me. Then Mort—he had kind of a rough life—Elizabeth took in boarders and roomers…and I'm sorry to say he didn't have much interest in his school work. I guess he finished high school. He'd go down to Nebraska in the summers to work on farms. He went down to this farm in Johnston and that's where he met Marjorie. He worked for her folks on the farm. And he worked there summers for her folks. I don't know how long before they were married. And they lived there on the farm with her folks, the Pohlmans. And her father and mother and his relatives had all homesteaded that whole southeastern part of Nebraska all around Auburn and Johnston. It was just full of Pohlmans who had homesteaded that southeastern land. So then they had three children—Linda Ann, Ronald, and Steven. And my mother would go down and visit them. And then Marjorie's father and mother died. It seems to me her father died—no, her mother died first because when Ronald was born they called mother. Mort went up and got her and brought her down there to help and take care of Linda Ann. Then her father died and then Steven was born, I think. And Mother went down again to help. Mort was very good about coming to Red Oak to check on Mother and look after her. Mother was quite close to them. And then the children grew up. Linda Ann went to Peru State Teachers College for a couple of years. She married Gaylen (?). She now has three children. Let's see, she must be around 31 or 32. So Ronald, Ronnie must be about 28. He married Denise. 15 She was from Johnston of around there and they adopted two children who have Indian blood. The one little boy must be pure Indian because he looks it. But the girl is a little lighter. Then Steven married a girl, Denise, too. And they have no children. Then Mort took on a job of selling seed corn sort of on the side. I don't think he even enjoyed farming, he just wasn't cut out to.be a farmer. And Ronald doesn't care a thing about the farm. But Steven just loved it. They'd always say, "Mow what are you going to do, Steven?" and he'd say, "I'm going to be a farmer. I'm going to stay on the farm." So Mort and Marjorie moved into Tucumsa and turned the farm over to Steven. So he and Denise live there on Marjorie's parents' farm. And a cousin of Marjorie's had a farm close by, and they've sort of retired. They still live in the house, but Steven farms their land, too. But Marjorie has cousins galore down there, a lot of Pohlmans. But Marjorie and Mort live in Tucumsa. Marjorie works, I think, for the Farm Bureau Association there. EB: And now what does Ronnie do? RD: Well, poor little Ronnie, he was such a smart kid .in school and very, very handsome. He was in school plays, he was in this, he was in that. He tried it for a year at the University of Nebraska and just couldn't make it. I think he got his grades too easy there in Johnston. Another thing, this little Denise was so bound that she was going to have him that he didn't have much time to study. So he came back and worked on the farm for a while, but he didn't like it. So he started selling seed corn, and then he went to auctioneers school and he does auctioneering on weekends. I think Marjorie was kind of unhappy with Ronnie because he just couldn't find his place. Linda Ann was married and settled and Steve knew exactly what he wanted to do. And Ronnie just kind of 16 drifted. The last I heard from her she said she felt better about Ronnie. He seemed to be enjoying himself selling, and I guess he could be a pretty good salesman. And then he does auctioneering on the side. But he tried driving cantaloupe trucks into Omaha and all sorts of things. I think he had it too easy in high school. Everyone thought he was so great and wonderful--a lot of praise. He didn't have to work for anything. EB: And maybe he got into the larger world and couldn't quite make the adjustments. RD: Right. Steve was the slow plodder; he did fine in school, not brilliant. He was never the s t a r … I think they played a lot of baseball. Steve, yes, he did until he hurt his knee. He just liked working with animals and on the farm. I think he'll be more successful than Ronnie because he's happy in what he does. Steve's wife was born and raised on a farm and she raises chickens, does a garden, freezes a lot of food and cans it. She's been working in Nebraska City at that nuclear power plant. Drives from Johnston to Nebraska City, o h , 40 miles. EB: Daily routine, huh? RD: Yes. EB: The other Marjorie, Marjorie Norrie, and I were reminiscing about the role Uncle Mortimer played in the family. Not your father, but his namesake, Uncle Mortimer Hulbert. Now, he was really sort of the patriarch because Ruben was dead. Those four children, there had to have been a stepfather some place, but I haven't gotten that figured out yet. But he's not in the picture during the time of the Civil War, during the time that these letters are being written. And it's always "ask the advice of Uncle Mortimer" and they had no children and I guess he was just patriarch. He had some 17 money, obviously, social position in the community—and we were amused that your father, Uncle Mortimer, seemed to play the same role in the family, the later family. Rob, the oldest son, was disabled in some way and so it put your father somewhat in that position, even though he was third born. He was the first son kind of thing. RD: I think that's true because I can remember Grandmother Rathbone calling him for advice and so on. Aunt Nell and Aunt Florence used to consult him. He made a lot of trips back to Eldora. There's some of the family back there. Let's see, Uncle John Rathbone would have been—was Isaac's brother John? EB: I'll look that up. RD: That's where this Warren Rathbone . . . EB: Let's see, I s a a c ' s . . . he had an older brother John Quincy. RD: Yes, John Q. Rathbone, right. He lived in Red Oak. For a while. My grandfather Muse bought Uncle John's house when he moved to Red Oak. It was the John Rathbone home. EB: Your Grandfather Muse purchased . . . RD: Bought his home, right. EB: Bought Uncle John's house on the other side of the family. That's interesting. RD: I don't remember where Uncle John went after that, whether he went in Nebraska, into Lincoln or went back round Eldora. Mow, I think Warren was Uncle John's son. EB: Now this is the Warren Rathbone that you went to visit in Eldora who you think is a banker? 18 RD: Yes. I'm almost positive Warren must have been Uncle John's son. But that's true. I think my father then took over as the head of the family. And those few years after Grandfather Rathbone died, he did I know. EB: His sisters consulted him, huh? RD: Uh-huh... EB: And his brothers, most of them, with the exception of Hubert, were in Washington State? RD: Hubert and Harry were still in Lincoln. Uncle Chester—who was Uncle Chet--was in Washington. EB: Do you remember Aunt Therissa? Your grandmother's sister? RD: No, all I remember is the name. I just can't remember anything about her. EB: Now, anything about Lemuel? That would have been her brother. And he was in New York, lived in Jamestown, New York. He was in the furniture business. He was, as far as I know, never lived in Iowa. And that's as - far as I know. I have no evidence of his moving to Iowa. He stayed in Ohio and played sort of the role, particularly when the grandparents aged, he played the role of taking care of them. And yet, some stories about, well, like what was going on this morning when I couldn't find a tape recorder. How you and Joe were hired as non-Mormons into the Utah school system. I truly think that that kind of information is very interesting. You sometimes think it isn't done, but it is. R D : " Y o u know there's a lot of family back in the Lincoln cemetery and, of course, Marjorie's too, the folks. There's just an awful lot buried there on the R a t h b o n e . . . of course, 19 Uncle Hubert and Harry. Mow they took Elizabeth back to Lincoln, didn't they? She was in a rest home there in Tucumsa when she died. EB: Harry's widow. RD: Yeah, Mort's mother. I've got those clippings on my father and Harry. I'll get them Xeroxed and to you. EB: Have you got any clippings on Harriet Caroline? You know, when I think about it, when she died in 1922 in Snohomish County, I can get those clippings. RD: Yes, yes. I didn't realize that it was that soon after my father's death, but I guess it was. EB: Well, this has been fun and I'd love to interview you about that at a later time. 20