Oral History Program Arline Rhyner Interviewed by Ryan Davis 18 November 2008 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Arline Rhyner Interviewed by Ryan Davis 18 November 2008 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in University Archives. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The Weber State College/University Student Projects have been created by students working with several different professors on the Weber State campus. The topics are varied and based on the student's interest or task for a specific assignment. These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Rhyner, Arline, an oral history by Ryan Davis, 18 November 2008, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii On my Mom's side of the family, I don't know very much about my family history. On my mom's side of the family, most of the family lives in Wisconsin and I have never had any interaction except with my grandmother and mother. My grandmother only had one child, and my grandfather died before I was born. Besides all of this, my family on my mom's side of the family is German so I don't know a lot because the family history is mostly in German. Interviewing my grandmother was a selfish inclination to get to know my Mother's side of the family and to have an oral history that can go with the rest of our family history when my Grandmother eventually passes away. I interviewed my grandmother at her home in Kaysville and did so by tape cassette. The whole interview went very smoothly for the most part and was very interesting. I had prepared over 30 possible questions to ask my grandmother and ended up asking many of them and many other questions. At the beginning of the interview, I asked questions that related to her early life and I asked a lot of questions about the places she was at which helped her to be able to mentally go back and that lead to many interesting comments as well. The questions eventually became concerned with her personal life about her being a wife, mother and grandmother. At the end of the interview, I asked questions about her present state and asked her some questions about her opinions in life and reflections of life. The interview overall was very great. There was one time she wanted to have me turn off the recorder to tell me something personal and I felt honored that she would trust me enough to divulge some information she thought was very personal. It was incredible to see how certain questions could lead to more specific questions and that my grandmother could really expand a question. In the process of the interview, I 1 learned a lot about the experience during World War II, the expectations of women, early education, early occupations, the role of men, early dating and most importantly family history which is the most important social history there is. The interview ended with me asking her about how she wants to be remembered by her family when she was dead and refused to answer and asked for me if we were done and we were. My grandmother refusing to answer that question goes along with the best advice she said she could give during the interview which is to live life while you’re living and to not focus on death. 2 Abstract: This is an oral history interview with Arline Rhyner. It is being conducted on November 18, 2008 at her home in Kaysville, Utah, and concerns her family history and experience during World War II. The interviewer is Ryan Davis. RD: Where were you born? AR: I was born in Sheboygen, Wisconsin on January 5, 1926 and that makes me 82 years old. RD: What was the house like that you lived in? AR: Three bedrooms, one bathroom, a kitchen, and a living room and a kind of like a porch that we, my twin sister and I had all our buggy's and toys on the porch. RD: Were most houses like that in the neighborhood? AR: Well a lot of them had porches and some of them were enclosed and some of them weren't. Ours was enclosed. RD: Did you have a big back yard? AR: Yeah, well it was fairly large. A garden, a garage that was it. RD. What was your relationship with your siblings like? AR: Oh well with my twin we were very close. Now uh she was the leader, I was the follower. My older sister was 7 years older than I and my brother was 10 years older than I, so we weren't, my brother and sister and I weren't that close. I think Orvilla, my sister, my older sister was closer to Howard because they were closer in age but we weren't really. Ten years is quite a bit. 3 RD: So you don't have a lot of fond memories with your older brother. AR: No not... we'd go when we had little trips, like we had a log cabin that my father had built with the help of other people and uh they, my parents, rented the cottage and we went out not very often to the cottage during the summer time. My mother had to ...there was nothing... my poor mother… she had to do a lot of cleaning and believe me we all helped with the cleaning but believe me when I say it was a log cabin, it had logs on each side and there were stuffed animals. A pheasant, an owl probably, probably a squirrel. My father was kind of a collector. He had uh… I think there was a German helmet, there was probably a French helmet and probably an American helmet on the roof some place and he also had different guns, now I'm sure they weren't workable. They were broken and whatever but uh then he had a cabinet, it was glass as if it would stop anybody who really wanted it. And he had arrow heads in there. He had all kinds of odds and ends I'll call it. I couldn't... I can't remember exactly and there was no electricity in the cabin and uh there was an outdoor potty. That's it. RD: Did you guys buy the cottage or did you build it? AR: My father... can you pause... turn it off? RD: We're back on. RD: What would you do with your family? What kind of family activities would you do? How would you spend time with each other? AR: Once we went to a World's Fair. We were gone a full month out of school. Adeline and I, my mother, my grandmother and my father. My sister was in school at that time and she couldn't possibly miss a full month and we went to San Francisco, where the World's 4 Fair was. In the process of going to San Francisco, my father dumped... I might as well call it dumped... he left my mother, my grandmother, my twin and I in a motel and he went with a lumberman who must have had... well must've been wealthy... I really don't know but he took off with my father. Actually my father got in touch with him through hunting magazines where they'd tell about their stories and how they caught or shot the deer or whatever they were hunting and that's so Adeline and I went to school. My mother and grandmother stayed in the motel for a good week... a good week and Adeline and I went to school in Kember Wyoming. RD: Did you go on a lot of family vacations. AR: Uh… no not really... we... we… people didn't have vacations, they were worked all the time... they really did. RD: What was your relationship with your mom and dad? AR: Oh my father was a loving, loving huggy man. He was...he was a very good, good man. My mother was a hard worker, German house fraum. RD: What kind of mischief did you get into when you were a kid? AR: No way am I going to answer! No way am I going to answer that question! No way! Do you think I'm going to answer to something like that that could be reported? No way! Oww, what kind of mischief? RD: Like on Halloween or with pets? AR: Oh on Halloween, we got candles from our parents and any car that was out on the street and we'd go on the main drag where all the stores were, the shopping stores and we waxed all the windows that we came across. That was our Halloween. 5 RD: And what did you do to your dog? AR: What did I do to my. RD: Didn't you put it down the outhouse toilet? AR: Oh... well that was... I wasn't going to put that down. RD: Okay. AR: Shh… RD: Where was the hangout spot? Where would teenagers like to hangout where you lived? AR: Oh well Adeline and I, we moved to Oshkosh when we were out of eighth grade. We moved. My father... yeah my father and my brother...my brother was in business with my father’s partner if you can make that clear...my father was in business uh and my brother... was moved to Oshkosh and we eventually moved to Oshkosh and his partner, the one who owned the sausage factory with my father, worked and my brother worked uh he sold the business to my father and my brother so that was when my father and my brother went and went in the business for themselves. That was the only time my father made any money. He was so honest and I'll be darned he always... somehow or another he was honest and he expected people to be honest and they weren't. The other people, they saw a chance to make a little bit of money by taking it out of the business. Now my father was in different businesses. He was in the pop business, he was in the lumber yard business and for a time, he uh ran a little restaurant. He also worked for a power company at one time. I don't know what he did there. I have no idea. I know that my father at that time when he was working for the power company had to go to school. I know this sounds funny but he… I think he only went as far as 6th or 8th 6 grade. And so he was manager of some sort and he had to go back to school to be able to write the men's checks. There weren't checks because he had to figure it out. That was the first time he did that and he left that to go into business for himself, that was really what he always wanted to do, he was going to business to make the money. He was, he was quite ambitious but he was too uh too honest and men... he was taken advantage every time... he really was. RD: What did you want to be when you were a kid? AR: Oh... I don't know. We didn't have at that time. Nobody put pressure on women for what they wanted to do and after they graduated. It wasn't a great big thing because most of the girls got married. RD: What subjects did you enjoy the most in school? AR: What subjects? Oh well, I like history pretty well... I would say history. Well, I wasn't fond of English. It was history. RD: What books did you like to read? AR: Oh... well... at school we were uh… we had to read all kinds of books. I kinda forgotten. Uh... those books... I'm 82... My memory. RD: Like Swiss Family Robinson and Robinson Curusoe? AR: All of those. All of those. Classics. And then there was uh Julius Caesar, I think he was one of them and uh Man of Two Cities...no. RD: Tale of Two Cities? AR: Uh what? 7 RD: A Tale of Two Cities. AR: Yes. RD: What did you like to do when you were a kid for fun? AR: Oh we went swimming into Lake Michigan. Every single day. That was our occupation. And there was a city park on that way so they had swings and teeter totters and merry go rounds. That's it. RD: Did you date a lot when you were a teenager? AR: No...No not many people did. We did have... uh... oh in high school... uh there was a father...who came from Nina... his father... he lived on a farm... he was a farmer... uh his name was Elmer Kokenbucker... Kookenbucker... that was what his name was. We dated about maybe oh two to three months. After that there wasn't any specific dating. Really. I wrote to some of the fellas in the service. RD: Really? AR: Oh sure. That's what a lot of women... girls did. Now my twin... my twin sister... she went to Washington D.C. after she graduated and worked for the FBI. RD: When did you move out of the house with your parents? AR: When did I... I moved out the house... you’re kidding! When I moved out of the house is when I got married. Uh I went from my parents’ home to an apartment. RD: How old were you? AR: Pardon. RD: How old were you? 8 AR: 22. RD: 22! Young! AR: I had college. RD: Where were you when you found out about Pearl Harbor and what were you doing? AR: Pearl Harbor... that was on a Sunday... that was on a Sunday... I remember that very clearly. We were having dinner with my sisters... my older sister's future husband. He was... they came and you know... we were having dinner and the T.V.... the radio... no T.V… radio was on. RD: It was already on? AR: Huh? RD: It was already on? AR: Yeah. It was on and all of a sudden we heard about Pearl Harbor and the next day I remember real clearly... uh… Franklin Roosevelt's announcement. We were... all the kids in the whole high school, were gathered into the gym and we heard his announcement declaring a state of war uh... was existing between the United States and Japan. It was really... everybody was very thrilled and excited. And uh… well... it was an exciting time really. RD: Really, people were not scared? They were thrilled and excited? AR: The boys didn't seem to be too excited... I mean frightened... excuse me! They weren't frightened, they were anxious to get into the... RD: Really. 9 AR: Oh yes... oh yes! Oh sure! I imagine that most of their enlistments were on December 8th, the day after. RD: Really? AR: Oh yes! RD: What was it like during World War II? AR: You mean the rationing? RD: Everything. What was it like for you? How did if affect you? AR: For me, there was very little men. The men were all in the service. There wasn't anything. You went to a dance, you went with girls. You went any place it was with a friend, a girl. There weren't any men. They were all in the service. Except the four F's. They were uh... not qualified to go into the service. There was a physical defect. RD: What was the rationing like during the war? AR: Oh… well... my mother took care of all the ration books. Shoes were rationed, sugar was rationed, uh gasoline was rationed… uh no… uh… stockings and uh there weren't... material was terrible... my mother was a sewer and we couldn't... we couldn't... there was lot of materials that we couldn't get because of the war. Because of the war they took for all that material for the army and the servicemen. They took all the material. RD: What did you do during the war? AR: What did I do during the war? I went to college. RD: Teachers college? 10 AR: Yeah. RD: How many years did you do? AR: Four. RD: Did you get a teachers certificate? AR: Yeah. RD: Did you do student teaching? AR: No… no I didn't want to. RD: Did you ever actually become a teacher? AR: No... I graduated. I had... did have the qualifications but I didn't go because I didn't like it. RD: Really? AR: Really. RD: When did you decide you didn't like it? AR: Well the last year of college. RD: Really? AR: Was really the only time we got into the different grades we might be teaching. Now I was supposed to go to the first, second and third grades. The primary grades we called them and I taught for qualifying for a teacher. I don't know how they did it because I taught one whole day in one grade and then I taught different subjects in first grade, second grade and third grade. There was reading and spelling and arithmetic and those 11 subjects we taught but I had just one whole day. That was how they did the thing right after the war, it was... they didn't have... it was organized the way it is now. You know. And even the girls, mostly girls who went to teach in country schools that's all eighth grade the way my sister was and she and I went to college for two years. RD: What college did you go to? AR: Pardon? RD: What college did you go to? AR: What college did I go to? Oh… I can't remember RD: It's okay. AR: Oshkosh State Teachers College it was called. RD: What was your marriage day like? AR: My what? RD: What did you do when you got married? What was the honeymoon and what was the ceremony like? AR: No... No... We uh... my husband and I were married in a Methodist church and uh we... my parents had a reception in their home and uh and then after we left. After we left, he brought out the hard liquor and they left and then my husband and I went to a hotel in another city and then we went to Chicago. Our honey moon. RD: Wow. What did you do in Chicago? AR: We visited a woman that my husband had met when he was over in Germany. He kept... when he got out of the service, he kept in touch with her. She was a good friend 12 that she... actually she was really in love with his good... a good friend of his... very good friend of his and uh so uh we went and visited her for... I think we were there in Chicago maybe about two days and we decided to go home. It was motels and everything we had in the apartment. RD: Where did you meet him? AR: Where did I meet my husband? Oh well, I did waitress work and became... he was actually dating one of the other waitresses there. RD: Really! AR: Yes. This was after he was home after the war. RD: How did he ask you out? AR: Oh I don't know... he asked me. RD: What do you like the most about your past husband? What attracted you to him? AR: He had a lot of confidence in himself. And I was more shy, more backward. And he being... well he was overseas and did quite a bit of fighting so uh when I say fighting I don't mean... well I guess he did fight in the trenches because he uh had a feet problem after because his feet would turn black when in the trench. RD: Did you have a serious relationship with anyone else before you dated him? AR: Well yes! I was engaged to someone else. And I went out with other fellas... after you know. RD: How come it didn't work out with the guy you were engaged to? Uh. I don't know. He was... he was kind of fussy. If I laughed too loud... 13 RD: Really? AR: Yes! RD: He was very quiet and me, I was more outgoing believe it or not at that time and he uh... we didn't mesh to well after... it just didn't. RD: Do you remember his name? AR: Yes but I'm not going to name it so... RD: Okay. RD: What was the first date with the husband that you married? AR: At that time, we went out to a movie and probably out for a hamburger and something... a coke to drink and home. That was our date. RD: How did he propose to you? AR: Pardon. RD: How did he propose to you? AR: Oh dear... I don't remember anymore. Hey it's 50-60 years you know. RD: Do you remember where it was at? AR: No... No... Huh uh I remember how I got my ring from him. It was at Christmas time and he was working part time in a candle factory and there was a figure of a Santa Claus about ten inches tall and he had his hands in front... in front of him over the tummy you know and he put the ring in the hands just over his tummy. That... that was my Christmas present. He used... uses his ring as a Christmas present. He didn't have to buy me anything else but the ring! 14 RD: How long had you guys been dating up to that point? AR: Oh... over a year we dated, maybe about two years really. RD: Did you have a happy marriage? AR: Please... RD: Why did you move to California? AR: Cause we lost a child that's why we left. We couldn't live in the apartment where I was living with her and I just... RD: Why not any other place besides California? AR: We had friends living in California. And then they transferred my husband where he had been working and he had a job in California. They had a job all lined up for him and it was an advancement really and they also paid our way out there. RD: Would you like to ever go back to Wisconsin? AR: Oh well we went home real often on vacations but uh... RD: What about now? AR: No... No... No... Uh... uh… RD: How come? AR: Even though I have a brother and sister living in Wisconsin. RD: Why not? AR: Uh... I been away from them too long and I'm too close to my daughter. RD: What state in your lifetime have you enjoyed living in the most? 15 AR: I did enjoy California. And I liked almost all the places there and uh yes... I like California. I really did. There were so many different places to visit to go to. Well, even Disney Land and Knotts Berry Farm. Uh... sea world and uh... there's so many different places. Mountain rides to go into and down to the ocean when we felt like it... San Diego it was a beautiful... I liked it very much. RD: Why did you have a small family? AR: Why did I have a small family? Because my husband didn't want any more after we lost our baby. Both of us said we weren't going to have anymore and then I couldn't take it. I had to... life was too empty... I had to have another child so... we did have another child. RD: How did you support my mom when she became a Mormon? AR: How did I... you are kidding... aren't you. RD: Well how did you support her? Didn't you encourage her to go on her mission? AR: Lisa went with a friend to the temple in Los Angeles and then they signed their name and, their telephone number I guess and uh I don't know the name and telephone number on the register when they went in... What they allowed to go into and they called Lisa up and she wasn't particularly interested in becoming a Mormon but her friend was. The friend once started taking lessons. Well they wouldn't give... just two missionaries would not teach a girl all by herself so she asked her friend, Lisa to come join her which was okay with us. And then war broke out when all of a sudden Lisa decided to join the church, the Mormon Church. And I mean war... it was war! It was tearing our family apart. And finally I couldn't take it... no more... I told my husband...you have to give Lisa her choice... let her go and do because we hadn't really given her a 16 church background. We were Methodist but we didn't, we hadn't gone to church regularly and then we finally... we talked it out and let her join the church. RD: What Hobbies do you have right now? AR: What hobbies do I have? You’re kidding! SEWING! SEWING! I SEW EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN! I sewed clothes for my poor grandkids... shorts and long pants until they insisted that they wanted jeans to wear and they didn't want homemade clothes anymore and then I started making teddy bears and rabbits and everything else that I could make and Christmas presents and I sewed ever since. That's it! RD: What do you love about being a Grandma the most? AR: Oh... I probably shouldn't say this... I probably shouldn't but I am partial to girls. I had two girls... you know and I'm partial to girls more than boys. And my grand girls, I've always been... I think we've always been close. But the boys well that's something different. I'm sorry but that's how I feel. That's it! RD: What are some of the most important lessons you have learned in life? AR: Oh please! You have to live while you’re living. Life can be very short. It was short for my daughter when we lost her and we had no idea what she died of so we had them do an autopsy and had them discover that she had a tumor and that's how my husband died to... from a tumor and he had a sister that had a tumor and another sister who was blind. It seems to have been in my husband's family. RD: What do you think about the war in the Iraq right now? AR: Oh don't...you don't want me to open up... no... No. RD: So you disapprove of it. 17 AR: I disapprove of it. Yes. To see our young men being trapped and shot at no... Oh no! Can't... can't! I would not like to see my grandkids over there ever...no, no. RD: Who was the most influential person in your life? AR: Well I guess it would be my husband the most influential person. And now later on... after he passed away... uh it would be my daughter and her family. RD: Why was it your husband? AR: Well it was my husband before but he died. RD: But why was he so influential in your life? AR: Oh... any person you live with... he would be very influential... your whole thinking... you grow together... you think what you decide what you want to do for vacations and what you want to do if you want to buy a car or buy anything large... it's all decisions. RD: What is the best book you have ever read? AR: I don't know. I read so many books. I'm a reader but most of them... I kind of like romance. I'm a typical woman I guess. I like a little mystery. RD: What does this generation need to know about all the problems we will face in the future? AR: Oh dear... well... they didn't have to scrap... we had to when we first were married. The wages were very low and even with both of us working we had uh it was...we had to scratch for our pay of the rent and pay of the utilities and everything... it wasn't... when we were first married it was very tight and my husband didn't want to get a home. RD: How do you want your family to remember you when you’re dead? 18 AR: Me... Oh… that's enough... isn't that enough? RD: Is there anything else you'd like to say? AR: No... Nothing... no. RD: Okay. 19