Oral History Program Kuni Kawashima Interviewed by Ruth Kawashima 17 May 1997 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Kuni Kawashima Interviewed by Ruth Kawashima 17 May 1997 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in University Archives. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The Weber State College/University Student Projects have been created by students working with several different professors on the Weber State campus. The topics are varied and based on the student's interest or task for a specific assignment. These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. 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It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Kawashima, Kuni, an oral history by Kawashima, Ruth, 17 May 1997, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Kuni Kawashima. The interview was conducted on May 17, 1997, by Ruth Kawashima, in the location of 993 Mountain Road in Ogden, Utah. The interviewee discusses her personal experiences throughout her life while growing up in Ogden, Utah. RK: So I'm going to start the interview by asking you when and where you were born. KK: _____, UT June 23 1926. RK: And how long did you live there? KK: A couple years, I guess. RK: And then where did you live? KK: We moved to Clearfield, or West Point. RK: And how long did you live there? KK: I don't know a couple years I guess. And then we moved to Ogden. RK: And where did you live in Ogden? KK: 21st Street, but I don't know the address. In a house just below Wall Avenue. RK: And how many brothers and sisters do you have? KK: There are ten of us altogether, six boys and four girls. RK: So did you live there all your life, how long did you live there, in that house? KK: I don't know, then we moved to Grant Avenue, and then we moved to Electric Alley. RK: What's Electric Alley? 1 KK: It's a half street between Grant and Lincoln and it was next door to the (Bluest?) Church there when they first started it. RK: And how old were you when you moved there? KK: I don't know, and then after the war we moved to Lincoln Avenue. RK: After the war, so you were still going to school. Where did you go to elementary school? KK: Grant School. RK: So did you guys walk to school, was it close enough to walk, or... KK: Grant School was on Grant Avenue between 22nd and 23rd and we lived on 21st and Old Wall, so we had to walk. RK: You guys had to walk. Do you remember anything about Grant School, anything in particular that you remember? KK: Nope. RK: What about junior high, where did you go? KK: Junior high we went to Central, it was on 25th street and Monroe. And I had to walk there too. RK: Oh, that was pretty fun. And high school? KK: High school was at Ogden High on Harrison and 27th, 28th? RK: So then you got to ride a bus. KK: Then we had to catch a bus but we had to buy our own bus tickets, because we weren't far enough to get free bus tickets. 2 RK: So it wasn't a school bus? KK: No, a city bus. RK: And did they have a dress code when you went to school? KK: No, everybody just dressed nice. They didn't wear jeans, they didn't have such things. RK: Did you wear pants, did girls wear pants to school? KK: No, girls did not have pants. RK: What kind of activities did you do when you were going to school, did you do anything at school beside academics? KK: Nope. RK: No clubs? KK: No, besides there was a war going on when I was in high school. RK: So you were, how old when the war broke out? KK: Let’s see, I was in junior high. Ninth grade, eighth grade? RK: So fourteen or fifteen? KK: I guess, I don't know. RK: So what happened when the war broke out, did your classmates treat you differently? KK: Some were ignorant, some were nice, some were just the usual. RK: So what else did they… I heard you had a curfew. KK: Oh yeah, we had a, I think it was eight o'clock at night until dawn in the morning. And you couldn't go near the, well KLO Radio Station used to be in the Hotel on 25th and 3 Washington, and you couldn't go around the hotel because the radio station was there, and you couldn't be anywhere near the defense depots. RK: And this was for anyone who was Japanese. KK: Yep. They took away radios and cameras and guns. RK: When did they come and take them away? KK: I don't know whether they come and took them away or we just had to turn them to the Post Office, I guess. We had to turn them in. Someplace. Especially if your radio had a short wave on it you couldn't have it. It was just a little table radio then you could keep that. RK: But they never came to the house? KK: FBI came to the house late at night to search the house. The girls, we were asleep, so they just stuck their head in. My brother was studying, they talked to him for a minute and then they left. RK: Did you guys know they were coming? KK: No, but everybody's house was searched. They made visits to all the homes. And you couldn't gather so there was no church. RK: You guys couldn't go to church? KK: Nope, people couldn't gather no place. So they didn't have no church. RK: What else, I heard they took butter knives. Is that true? They took all the kind of knives. Or is that not true? 4 KK: I don't know about that. ____ gun lamp, with an old civil war gun, they turned it into a lamp at school and they even took that. RK: But he got it back. KK: Yeah, he got it back. RK: Did they take anything of yours? KK: Nope, cause I didn't have nothing. RK: What else do you remember, anything? During the war? You guys were on rations? KK: We had sugar rations, and we even had meatless, one day a week even restaurants didn't have meat. Let’s see what else did we have rationed? Was it shoe rations? Or something, I don't know, there's another one. RK: So the war was still going when you graduated? Or was it over by then? KK: Nope, it was still on when we graduated, so we couldn't...yearbooks at the high school you didn't have individual pictures you had group pictures because they had to save the film. RK: And everyone still got to go to school, all the Japanese still got to go to school. KK: Yeah, we went to school. RK: And it wasn't difficult? KK: No, it wasn't too bad. RK: Do you remember your first job? KK: Yeah, I went to work for Kay's Noodle. 5 RK: What did you do? KK: Washed glasses and silverware and tea pots. RK: How old were you? KK: Eighth grade. RK: During the war did you have a job? KK: No, that was the only job I had. RK: Could the Japanese work? KK: Well yeah, you could get a job, but you couldn't get a job in a defense plant or anything, you could work in commercial jobs or whatever. RK: So what did you do after you graduated from Ogden High? KK: Went to work at twentieth century sportswear. Learned how to sew. RK: What did you make? KK: I didn't sew on a machine, I did hand sewing, I worked there for ten years. RK: But what did you sew there? KK: I did the finishing on the garments, hand finishing. RK: So the same thing over and over. KK: Well they were made to measure garments so they were different things. RK: So you didn't have just like one thing that you always worked on. KK: No. RK: Just whatever had to be finished. 6 KK: Just whatever had to be finished. RK: And they taught you how to do that? KK: Yes. RK: Or did you know how to sew before you got there? KK: Well, I knew how to sew a little bit. But not tailoring kind of sewing. RK: Did grandma teach you? KK: No. RK: Where did you learn how to sew? KK: School. RK: What about that tailor shop, didn't you work in a tailor shop? Where you made suits? KK: Well that was the tailor shop but I didn't do machine sewing. Later I became head of the pressing department, and worked the presses. RK: The big commercial ones? KK: Yeah, a big steam press. RK: And how many hours a day did you have to do that? KK: Well, sometimes you worked at it all day, sometimes you did other things. But it was an eight hour a day job. RK: Do you remember how much you got paid? KK: Yeah, I first started out at 40 cents an hour. RK: And what were you making when you left? 7 KK: I think $1.35 or something. RK: Wow, a dollar raise in ten years? KK: Yeah, wasn't very much. RK: Then where did you go? KK: Then I went to work to clerk in the grocery store. RK: Like the neighborhood grocery store? KK: Well yeah, it was the neighborhood grocery store, I cashiered at the grocery store. RK: You did? Since your parents were from Japan did they ever teach you to speak Japanese? KK: We had to speak Japanese because they didn't speak much English. RK: But they wanted you to be American? So you spoke Japanese in your home? KK: Yeah. RK: All the brothers and sisters, did you guys all have to do, cook and did everyone have to do tons of cooking and.... KK: Well, everyone had their chores to do. RK: Was grandma the one who taught you how to cook? KK: Yep. We had a garden and when we lived on 21st street we even had chickens. RK: What else? KK: Well we always had a garden. RK: What did grandma and grandpa do? 8 KK: Well grandma stayed home and took care of the kids, she learned how to do canning, she did canning. Grandpa worked at a lot of different jobs, and he was sick for a long time too. RK: So after the war then all these people started coming to Utah, is that right? All these Japanese people from camps started coming in? KK: Well, that was after, well, yeah quite a few came and they brought people from camp to stay at the canneries to work in the canneries. RK: And there is a cannery on 20th? KK: There is a cannery on 21st and there is one Del Monte, over the bridge, over the . And there was another one called Royal Cannery out there someplace. Anyway, a lot of people came in to work at the canneries. But a lot of people did leave camp and come in to Utah. Into Ogden. RK: So what did you do for fun? KK: Well, you could go bowling, go to a movie. RK: Where was the movie theater? KK: Well there used to be the Paramount Theater on Kiegel, the Egyptian Theater, ____ Theater, and _____ Theater. RK: Do you remember how much it was back then? KK: I think we could get in for a dime. RK: What else did you guys do? KK: I don't know, wasn't too much you could do. Nobody had any money. 9 RK: What about church? Did you start going to church again? KK: Well, after they finally opened up the church, minister came in and he lived at the church. And we had regular church services, and YBA, Young Buddhist Association activities. RK: Like what? KK: Well, we used to have dances, and we had. RK: Did you have live music? KK: No, records, they had a guy come in and teach ballroom dancing, they had baseball. The girls had a baseball team and the boys played baseball and basketball. They had church picnics. RK: In Ogden? KK: Yeah. Churches used to have a conference every year, each church had to host chapter. We had an annual bazaar. RK: And your church was on 25th street? KK: No, the church was on Lincoln. RK: The church was on Lincoln. __________. In the parking lot? KK: No when the church was on Lincoln we didn't have a parking lot, two houses down there used to be the building where, it was a boarding house. They had a pretty good sized yard there. They used to have outdoor events in there. It was an old Japanese school house. And it later turned into a boarding house. RK: Japanese school house? 10 KK: Yeah, they had Japanese school there. RK: Did you go? KK: Nope. RK: So they just taught Japanese language then? KK: Yeah, reading and writing. RK: Through the church, was it done by the church? KK: No. RK: What about that store you were talking about, (Takahashi's)? KK: (Takahashi) Grocery? It was a pretty good size store, he had Japanese groceries and gifts. And they lived in the back, just a couple no kids. And upstairs was like small apartments and rooms that was rented out. RK: And that was on 25th street? KK: No, on Lincoln! RK: Everything is on Lincoln. KK: It was on Lincoln. RK: Well, something was on 25th street. KK: 25th street had different restaurants, had a shoe shop, Japanese gift store, little jewelry store, and dry cleaners, and a barber shop. RK: Where was (Nakitani's) store? KK: (Nakitani’s) was on 25th street between Grant and Lincoln. 11 RK: Were they there then? KK: They were there after the war, they lived upstairs of their store, or behind it, I don't know which. There was quite a few Japanese restaurants on 25th street. RK: So when did Uncle Slim open Bamboo's? Or buy Bamboo's? Did you waitress there when he was the owner or when somebody else was the owner? KK: Both. I was in high school when I worked over there for Bamboo's. But I don't remember exactly when Slim bought it. RK: So after you worked at the tailor place, and then you worked at the grocery store, then you went to Bamboo's? KK: I worked at Bamboo's when Slim owned it until after I was married. RK: So where did you meet dad? KK: The YBA was going up to Timpanogas, so we were at church fixing the lunch and I met him down there. I knew his sister already and his mother and father they lived next door to my sister and her husband. RK: Which sister? KK: _____. RK: And they just moved here from camp? KK: Yeah, they were here from camp. RK: And then you got married, and you lived on Lincoln too, right? After you got married? 12 KK: No after we got married we lived on 23rd street first, in a duplex next to my brother. And then we moved to Lincoln in a duplex next to my sister. And with my mother in-law on the other side. RK: So there was like this whole big group down there on Lincoln. KK: Yeah. Then we bought a house and moved up to Cross Street. RK: Isn't that kind of scary being the only Japanese people up here? KK: Well, no because Aunty (Shig?) and them lived on 9th street just below Harrison. So that was all of us up there then. RK: What else? So did you work after you got married? KK: Yeah, I worked at the 20th Century Sportswear for, I don't know how long, until he merged with Butler and Company out on Washington Blvd. On 12th and Washington, or 11th and Washington. And nobody got along so I finally quit there, and that's when I went to work in the grocery store after a while. RK: So you were working at the grocery store when you got married. And when did you quit? KK: Before you were born. RK: So you didn't work after I was born? KK: After you were born I went to work at Bamboo for a while again. RK: And daddy was working at Hill Air Force Base? KK: No, he worked at 2nd Street first. RK: What was 2nd Street? 13 KK: DDO. Then he went to Hill Air Force Base. RK: And all your brothers joined the Army right? KK: No, one was in the Navy. RK: Did they all join right away or did they get drafted, do you remember? KK: Let’s see, Joe got drafted, Slim and Sam got drafted, and Kay, and (Biff) and Tom enlisted. But Slim was the only one that got wounded. RK: And were they all in World War II? KK: No, Joe wasn't. He was a cook for a long time before they shipped him overseas. I don't know what he did. RK: Uncle Slim.... KK: Uncle Slim and Uncle Sam were in World War II, and Uncle Biff was in the Korean War, and Uncle Kay was in the Korean War. RK: And what happened to Uncle Slim? KK: He was wounded. RK: I know, but how was he wounded? KK: Shrapnel in his head and his leg, he still carries some shrapnel. RK: That's why his helmet's at the Smithsonian, right? KK: Yeah, where the bullet went through it. RK: What else do you remember, do you remember anything else in Ogden back then? So you went bowling and to the movies for fun. 14 KK: Well they had a roller rink, the YBA used to go have skating parties at the roller rink. Some of the kids went skiing, but I didn't ski. RK: Up at Snow Basin? KK: Yep. RK: Well, I guess we are done then. KK: Good. RK: Thanks for letting me interview you. And we've concluded this interview. 15