Oral History Program Clayton Holt Interviewed by Ellery Bennett 20 May 1971 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Clayton Holt Interviewed by Ellery Bennett 20 May 1971 Copyright © 2012 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. 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It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Holt, Clayton, an oral history by Ellery Bennett, 20 May 1971, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following account is information obtained through an interview given by Ellery Bennett to Mr. Clayton Holt. Mr. Holt is a History teacher at Clearfield High School and in preparation for his Master’s degree, has done a great deal of research on an apostate group living in South Weber in the early 1860’s. The group was led by Joseph Morris and the following is an account of Morris and his followers. EB: Mr. Holt, who was Joseph Morris and what purpose did he have in doing the things he did? CH: Joseph Morris was a convert to the L.D.S. religion. He was twenty three when he joined the church and after a few years he migrated to the United States. Upon coming to the U.S. he married Mary Thorpe and worked for two years as fireman on a steamship going up and down the Mississippi River. While living in St. Louis, he claimed to receive visions concerning an “heirship of the priesthood.” Because of this he began having trouble with the membership of the church. Records show that in 1857, he settled in the Provo area and was re-baptized, as were many members of the church. Here again he was reprimanded by the bishop for his teachings and therefore would be moved to Weber County. He finally settled in South Weber. His purpose is hard to describe, and we don't know if he was sincere when he claimed to be the Seventh Angel talked about in Revelations or whether he was simply egotistic and wanted to command a following. EB: How many followers did Morris have and what caused people to follow him? CH: The biggest following he had was about 425 people. We must realize that this was the first apostate group in Utah and in 1861-62, there was much turmoil in the U.S. which 1 finally led to the Civil War. It was being preached that this might be the war to end all wars and that the second coming was eminent. Morris was one who preached these ideas and many people therefore followed the signs. Morris also said that he radiated when he spoke and appeared to be divine because of it. EB: What was the pattern of living which took place in the Morrisite community? CH: This is one of the disturbing things about the Morrisites. They gathered at Kingston Fort in South Weber and even though it was springtime they didn't plant crops because Morris told them that the end was soon. Therefore, as people lived in wagons or dugouts, and they set up a communal type of living. The new followers were told to bring all they had for the benefit of all. I don't know if polygamy was practiced at this time or not because time was short. The communal type living begins to get the Morrisites in trouble because many farmers in the Ogden area were missing livestock and pointed the finger at the Morrisites. This eventually led to the law coming in and created greater problems among the community. EB: As an apostate group what were the bigger or biggest doctrinal differences between the Morrisites and the Mormons? CH: Joseph Morris felt he had received revelation and thus should be a big leader with Brigham Young and the quorum of twelve. He often wrote to President Young and wondered why he wasn't accepted. This is one distinction. Another difference was in the belief of the Latter Days and what would happen when Christ came. Morris had it worked out that the seventh angel would come who literally was he (Morris), and that Moses would be reincarnated and this would take place prior to the coming of Christ. Actually this ceremony was held by the Morrisites at Kingston Fort. As times passed, I 2 recall they marched around the fort seven times. Morris believed in the work of Joseph Smith, but only to the degree that Joseph Smith was his forerunner and that all of the things I've talked about had to take place before the second coming, and that Morris was the one who actually would usher in the era of the second coming. EB: In your opinion, what marked the beginning of the end of the Morrisites? CH: I think myself that the beginning was when he was excommunicated from the church. Wilford Woodruff and other Church leaders went to the South Weber Ward and excommunicated Morris and 16 others from the Church. Then too, they disregarded civil law, when an injunction was placed upon them, they refused to admit the Marshall and even threatened his life. The real cloud burst of his works came when some families could see through him and decided to leave, such as William J. Jones, and his wife. They had brought 200 bushels of grain, and 16 head of stock. Jones believed in Morris until the spring when he was told not to plant any crops, for Christ would soon appear. Jones' faith weakened and he decided to pull out. So on April 28, 1862, Jones and two other men named Jensen and Gurson managed to leave secretly with a wagon load of grain. They traveled to Kaysville but as soon as Morris heard they had gone he sent 20 men to bring them back. They were captured and chained to the fort calaboose pending sentencing for their acts. It is believed their lives were threatened at his time. Philo Allen pressed charges at Kaysville in Jones' benefit, and a writ of Habeas Corpus was issued by Judge John Kinney, in May 1862, and delivered by Marshall J.L. Stoddard to slow down Morris and show cause why three prisoners were kept in jail by Morris and others without due process of law. This writ was not honored when Stoddard entered the fort. In fact, John Banks had the writ burned, and the Marshall's life was threatened if he 3 returned. Had this writ been honored there would have been little difficulty. I think this was the beginning of the end. Of course soon afterwards a posse of about 500 men would be found overlooking the fort. Also Morris knew this was coming and said enemies would come so when the posse came the people naturally believed that he was a prophet or the Lord. EB: Mr. Holt, could you describe in detail the confrontation between the posse and the followers of Joseph Morris? CH: As I said before it was no surprise to the Morrisites when they awoke Friday morning, June 13, 1862, to see a line of militia on top of the bluff up where Hill Field is today. Here were the enemies. It was estimated that 500 men, actually there were about 150 from Salt Lake County, 100 from Davis—100 more curious. The Morrisites felt that a supernatural agent would appear and cause their enemies to disappear and that the Morrisites themselves would be invincible. According to Morris' Revelation, the Lord told them that they could not be killed as they had killed other prophets. The Marshall that had orders were or was Marshall Burton. Burton had given orders to the man to fire two warning shots above the fort. The first shot was fired about 10 A.M., and went above the fort hitting the cotton wood trees near the river. The second shot, however, didn't have enough powder and fell short, bouncing from a plowed field and smashed into the fort. The Morrisites had gathered to vote and two women were struck dead by the cannon ball. A fifteen year old girl lost part of her jaw at this time and 17 years later testified against Marshall Burton. This of course was a tragic thing, if they had waited a short time the Morrisites may have changed their minds. Actually they were waiting for Morris to receive a revelation as to what to do. They still thought they would be delivered from 4 their enemies. The Morrisites under Peter Klemgard had formed a militia and had been practicing for several weeks. They were armed with rifles, revolvers and shotguns. The siege on the fort lasted three days. William Jones was released from prison and joined the posse. Rain hampered movements of the troops the next day, but on Sunday, June 15, firing continued. Few people in Utah realized that there was such a firing. It's estimated that 100 cannon balls were shot, and over 5,000 rounds of small ammunition. Here is a brief summary of what happened that Sunday. Burton made plans to attack the fort. A rolling breastwork was built to let some of the men advance forward. This terrified some of the Morrisites because they thought it was rigged with explosives. Meanwhile inside the fort conditions were becoming critical. Food was running low, as well as ammunition. The women and children were told to get into the root cellars for protection. Finally about 7 P.M. Sunday evening a bugle sounded, and a white flag was seen. John Parsons, a Morrisite leader, was reported saying, "For God's sake and the sake of humanity, stop your firing." Burton ordered the Morrisites to start stacking their arms and to surrender unconditionally. His last revelation goes as follows; "I will confuse those men who are shooting at my people, either with cannon, or muskets... It is my day (Sunday) everything is about ready, and the time is come when I shall have to come and show myself plainly unto you." The people felt that Christ would come immediately and stop the posse and all would be saved. However, about twenty Morrisites were clustered to the south of the school. Burton stopped short, about a rod away, and addressed them stating his business. He said he was there to issue a writ for the arrest of Joseph Morris, John Banks, Richard Cook, John Parsons, and Peter Klemgard. He felt it was his duty to arrest all who had borne arms. Burton felt confident the Morrisites 5 had surrendered. Morris asked to speak; Burton told him to be brief, and cautioned the people to be quiet. Morris, in a loud voice, started to speak. "All who are for me and my God in life or in death follow JUB." It is hard to tell what happened at this point but it is believed that the man Morris now stepped towards Burton and then made a move towards the school where the arms had been stacked. Burton yelled "halt" three times. Other Morrisites started following towards the school where Burton felt more arms could be obtained. Burton shouted, "Stop the prisoners," and a volley of shots thundered. Morris reeled and fell dead into the arms of John Ames. Those who were close saw the wadding bounce from his body. They thought Morris was invulnerable to death or, if killed, would immediately be restored to life. Two women, Mrs. Bowman and Mrs. Swanee, had crossed into the fire and fell, mortally wounded. John Banks was also wounded and died the next morning. Stoddard and Burton did most of the shooting with their revolvers, perhaps six to eight shots in all taking from four to five seconds. This burst of fire stopped the advance of the others. Burton yelled, "Cease fire". Other troops were now coming into the fort. The women and children were separated from the men. All of the men who bore arms were arrested and led away to the posse's camp. Ninety four were taken as prisoners to Salt Lake City the next day. EB: What happened to the Morrisites after the death of Joseph Morris? CH: Several were taken to trial but were released by the territorial governor. From there they spread out, some went to Fort Douglas and went to Soda Springs from there. Some went to San Francisco. After Morris' death the volumes of his work which amounted to five times as much as Joseph Smiths were taken to San Francisco and printed. It came out as a book called the Spirit Prevails. This book also contains articles and letters 6 written by Joseph Morris. My understanding is that there is some form of organization being handed down even today, a few even still believe that Morris was a prophet of God. EB: During the course of this interview, it appears that Morris' followers followed him much the same way as people followed Joseph Smith and that they were perhaps misunderstood as the Mormons were also misunderstood. Therefore how do you think the persecutions of Joseph Morris and his followers can be compared with the persecutions of Joseph Smith and his followers? CH: They are quite similar. Both believed in prophets and this time being the latter days, the basic difference is that Joseph Smith and his followers were being driven without protection of the law. Many were killed including Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum, as Joseph Morris was also killed. The big difference was that the Morrisites were not in the framework of law which was in Utah at that time. The Church leaders and Brigham Young should have had a bigger ear for the group. President Young could and should have had more tolerance and thus many problems may have been prevented. He had refused a hearing which was recommended by other leaders. Perhaps this intolerance even caused some faithful members to look into the teachings of Morris as a new prophet. I do feel that if the blame should rest with someone, there is no excuse for the Morrisites, unless ignorance can be called an excuse. They followed their leader blindly, having explicit faith in him. When he placed the kingdom of God above the law of the land there was but one road to follow. The Mormon attitude towards the United States government differed somewhat from that of Morris. He believed the people had departed from the law which was first written and had framed laws of their own. He did, 7 however, feel it was a tool needed to restore the true church, but "notwithstanding this, the order of the great government is contrary to the true order of government which exists in heaven and will exist on earth." I don't think you'll find that the Mormons ever said such a thing. In fact you'll find in one of the articles of faith of the Mormons that they want to obey and sustain the law. I feel this is the biggest difference in the problems and persecution. 8