Oral History Program Eddie Mahurin Interviewed by Catherine Emang 18 November 2008 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Eddie Mahurin Interviewed by Catherine Emang 18 November 2008 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in University Archives. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The Weber State College/University Student Projects have been created by students working with several different professors on the Weber State campus. The topics are varied and based on the student's interest or task for a specific assignment. These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Mahurin, Eddie, an oral history by Catherine Emang, 18 November 2008, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: This is an oral history interview with Eddie Mahurin. It is being conducted on November 18, 2008 at Hill Air Force Base Youth Center and concerns a personal account of experiences dealing with Family Support and Readiness and how it has changed over time. The interviewer is Catherine Emang. CE: My name is Catherine Emang and I am interviewing Eddie Mahurin. Here at Hill Air Force Base Youth Center. We are in her classroom which is the Imagination Room at Hill Air Force Base. Thank you for agreeing to do this interview with me. EM: No problem. CE: And will you state your full name? EM: My full name is Eddie Jean Mahurin. CE: And where were you born? EM: I was born in Duluth Minnesota. CE: Okay, how many members do you have in your immediate family? EM: Three. CE: And, are they brother or sister? EM: Nope, that's just me, mom and dad. CE: You, Mom and Dad, so only child? EM: Only child. CE: Okay and where did you grow up? What do you consider as your hometown? 1 EM: Uhh, I would have to say Jacksonville, Arkansas. CE: And why? EM: Because I lived there probably the most in my life. Since I'm a military brat, that's where we were stationed the most, in the south. So I would have to say Jacksonville. CE: How many years have you been involved in the military? Whether it was as a child or a spouse? EM: 48 years. CE: 48 years. EM: And it was as a child and spouse. CE: So how old were you when your parent, was it your father or mother in the military? EM: My father. CE: And how old were you when they began in the military? EM: Uh. CE: You were born into it? EM: I was born into it so I was zero. CE: So you have been in the military as long as you have been alive? EM: Yes. CE: In one form or another, never been out of it? EM: Never been out of it. CE: Umm… Do you recall deployments as a child? 2 EM: Yes. CE: How many did your father? EM: Out of 365 days in the year he was probably gone 200. CE: So he was deployed often. EM: Yes because he was on the IG team. CE: And what does IG mean? EM: He was the Inspector General for the bases. And at that time there were SAC bases, MAC bases and PAC. So he was the inspector general for SAC and for PAC. CE: And what is SAC? EM: At that time it was Strategic Air Command, Pacific Air Command, and I can't remember what the MAC is. He didn't do that one; I just know that there was three. They don't have that anymore. But that's what he did. CE: Now, his deployments were they short term deployments or was he gone for the entire 200 days? EM: They were short, like gone three days, home a day, gone three days, home a day. CE: Was he on any long deployments. EM: Yes he was, he did, uh let’s see, he did a yearlong to New Finland, which I don't know if they still have that remote anymore, that was more a remote, and he also a yearlong to Korea, he was also a yearlong to an Unknown, that I still do not know where he was. CE: Would you tell me how old you were with these deployments? And possible what a typical deployment would be for your family? Like getting ready? How would that look? 3 EM: Umm, I can remember him deploying as long as I can remember which would probably be the age three. Is probably about as far back as I can remember. He was just; it was just always his job. He was always gone, and getting ready, he was always ready. His bag was always in the car. And usually how we knew he was gone was one of the guys at the base would drive his car back for mom. CE: So no warning? EM: No warning. It was a true deployment, unlike now, where they have a little bit more time to prepare. It wasn't there. He had his bag and he was gone, he was on the C-130, and gone. CE: Will you describe some of the emotions that you have, did you know he was going to come back, was there uncertainty? What did it feel like in your family when he was gone? EM: My mom was very good. So, it was like a normal life for me. "Dad's gone", alright. "Dad's gone" because she took care of everything. Mom took care of everything in the family. So, never had to worry about, you know, him being gone. I would just come home from school, and "Dad's gone", he went, if she could tell me where he went, or "he'll be back in a couple of days" or and of course there was no email then or anything and they weren't allowed to make phone calls, so it was sorta like a secret service type of thing even though it really wasn't but that's what he did. CE: Going to present day with your spouse. He is in the…? EM: Air Force. CE: And he does what for the Air Force? 4 EM: He is an air traffic control. CE: So did he go on deployments? EM: Yes, he's a combat controller. CE: So, would you mind comparing it to how it was as a kid to how it was as a spouse? EM: I think I have to say I have more stress now, as a spouse, with his deployments than with my dad’s. Cause I think with my dad, I had my mom as a support system and the whole family. You know we would go visit my mom's mom and dad if he was gone for any length of time. Or my dad's mom and dad, my grandparents so they were a big factor. But with my husband it was very stressful. The deployments were very stressful to just go. Because I had a big preparation to it. So with him it was a nightmare. Trying to get him to where he needed to go. Compared to when my dad. It was, I think it is a lot harder now for the people to deploy then it was when I was younger. I was defiantly stressed as an adult but not as a child. CE: So how did you get through that stress? What specific stress might you have? EM: With my husband? CE: Right. EM: I think I get through it with friends, and of course working. I'm glad I'm working, I think that if I was at home, with no children, and he was doing that, it would be a lot harder, at least here I have people that I can talk to. Go places with, so I'm not isolated. When he went, his first time deployment we were at Holliman, we had just got there, and even thought I was working I was isolated. It was an isolated base so that was the toughest one for me. I didn't have anybody around. Barb had moved out, my daughter, went back 5 to Tucson, left me alone. I was like, you're leaving me alone? So that was the hardest one cause I didn't really have any friends yet. I was brand new to the area, and even though they had a spouse support system, it’s not really in place, it’s there, but it only works sometimes. CE: What do you mean by it only works, sometimes? Do you mean you didn't feel a part of it? EM: I didn't feel a part of it, even though you are there; I found that it was more of a gossips ceremony then a support ceremony. And I don't really go into the gossip part of it that much. I don't want to know about each other’s husbands, and who is fooling around with who. I don't want to know that, I know it goes on everywhere but I just don't want to know that. I wanted to wear blinders. So I did feel alone at Holliman, that was a hard one. CE: And Holliman is where? EM: Holliman is in Alamogordo, New Mexico. So it kind of sits out, even though it is about an hour from Cruses and probably about an hour from El Paso, you know, you’re there all by yourself. CE: And how long were you guys there? EM: We were at Holliman from '96 to '99, so three years. CE: And he was deployed for how much of that? EM: Two. CE: Two years out of three. Um so are you familiar with the army or Air Force family support systems that they have put in place? 6 EM: Yes. CE: And what is your understanding or what is your experience with them. Anything you can tell me about. EM: I think their support systems are really good. You're always going to have, you know, you're kinda off ones at different bases and it could have been the spouse support system at Holliman, cause it was so small. It was, it just didn't really work. But normally your support systems, like at Wismar, is White Sands missile range in New Mexico, we went after Alamogordo, they have an awesome support system. CE: And what does that look like? EM: It, they have it for spouse, child and for the military member, which I liked. Because there's not a whole lot sometimes for the military member. For what he is feeling, he is not really allowed to express his feelings. It's not forbidden, I can't say forbidden, but looked down upon. But at White Sands they had an awesome one. So, before the guy went all his squadron was behind him and with the family. I would have to say with all my 26 years with my husband in the military, that White Sands was the only base where they regularly called me, checked up on me, made sure I was taken care of. Regularly called him, emailed him, sent him support packages while he was away. Saying, Okay, your family is fine, we have done this. So that system helped us out a great deal. CE: And this is Army? EM: That's the army base. But it is a four core, Army, Air Force, Marine and Navy. So his actual squadron is Air Force it was just stationed at the Army base. But it was actually the Army Garrison commander that put it into place. Said, you know, that you gotta 7 make sure that all the ends are tied. So if they needed child care, it was taken care of. Money was not, you know, an issue. It just, money didn't play an issue. If you needed childcare then it was taken care of. If your car broke down then it was taken care of. I mean, you know, they didn't just come and do it for you, but it was taken care of. You didn't have to worry, if you needed food. Whatever was the problem, if something broke down in your house, you needed help with your lawn. It was done. CE: What was the difference between this base and other bases? EM: When I was at White Sands knowing that I was going to move here. Because we knew we were coming here, I called 6 months ahead of time, because we knew we wanted to buy a house. So the first thing I did was call family support here at Hill and I got a lot of "I don't know's" which is unusual. You usually get a packet, which we did get the packet but sometimes the packets are not up to date, you know there maybe a couple of years behind what is actually going on and you want to know things like, taxes and how much is rent and what is the food cost and you need to know these things coming in cause you usually have to pay large amounts of money up front to get things turned on and it's a nightmare to move. So I didn't have the support system here. I had to go to my Realtor. She was my support system. Joe was coming from Korea; I was coming from New Mexico. So I had to do everything in Mexico, get all our household goods ready to ship. Everything packed up by myself. Which it's not the first time, it would be harder probably for a new person coming in. And I, I had to do a survey when I got here. And I filled out that survey stating that because I'm experienced in moving I knew what to do and how to get it done before I got here. A brand new married couple, young spouse, 8 you know male or female, if they didn't get the support from the system may not have known how to do it. They could have been in real trouble when they got here. CE: Like what types of things did you have to do? I mean obviously getting a house. EM: Right, well I had to have a place to stay temporarily and since I have animals that's an issue. At the time that I moved here you cannot stay at TLF, which is temporary lodging facilities, for military with animals. They have to be kenneled. And I argued that point in my survey because my dog is older, he has cancer, he can't be kenneled because they won't give him the medication that he needs. That's not their responsibility and I can understand the liability issue. You know they don't want to be sued. So I can understand why they don't want to lodge him. So we couldn't stay at TLF, I had to find a place downtown. Well you are talking, of course, money and even though at that point I had already saved so much money, because I knew how much money I needed to have to move. I found that I didn't get the support from the base. Cause like when you moved to Wismar or Holliman and we lived in Tucson, they usually have a support system in place to help you. You have a sponsor that writes to you or calls you before you get to the base and then they meet you. Show you around the area. Our sponsor had only been here for one month. CE: So they didn't know. EM: They didn't know anything; they were just like us, newbie's to the area. I mean they only knew the base and the surrounding area. They could help my husband do what he needed to do. But they couldn't help us with the area. So we had to go off, off base for that. Which I even wrote in the survey that I thought that was pretty sad. And the whole entire time that we have been in the military we have only been a sponsor once. 9 CE: Hmm, now how do they get these sponsors? EM: It's done through your squadron. So like my husband’s squadron would say "Okay we got a guy coming in. He's coming in from here; he's got a wife and a child. K, he's got a dog and a cat. They are looking to buy or they are looking to rent or they need a house on base. You need to help them out.” And what we did when the people came in that we sponsored. We offered them a place to stay or found them a place to stay if they didn't want to stay with us or if you don't have the room which is possible. You know, we told them where they could go to eat, you know where's the best place to shop. These are a list of apartments if you want to live off base, these are a list of houses if you want to live off base, these are who you need to contact if you want to live on base. You know so we help them out. This is your Commissary, this is the BX, you know we drive them around town and so them, this is the place that you need to avoid, every area has them. When we first came into Hill we were told to avoid South Ogden and South Salt Lake. The reason being, for many reasons, it could be that they don't like military so they will target your car cause you might have a sticker or it's a gang related area. Military tries to keep you out of certain areas. So that is what that is for, just so you don't get into an area and then find out, hmm, they don't like military people. Cause sometimes they are targets, that was the only reason for that. And it's pretty sad because when I told my realtor not to go to these places I found out that she lived in South Salt Lake and I felt bad. I don't know the reason for it, we are just told to avoid these sections of town. Which is on every base, even in Alamogordo, you know certain places in Alamogordo or avoid certain places in Las Cruses. 10 CE: So when you are on a base and you have a family support office, is it the same for every base or do they offer different services? I'm curious what the services might be that are offered. Obviously you talked about the housing, what else do you think their responsibility is or you've been told their responsibility is? EM: They offer assistance with your mental health. In case you're having, you know they try to make the transition easy. Their responsibility for, if I need assistance since my husband is gone. I need assistance with finances or I need assistance with an emergency or you know, it can be, it’s everything, it’s a little community inside a community basically. I mean, they are supposed to offer you assistance on everything, even for civilians working on base have these support systems you know, in place. To help you find a job, to help you find a house, to help you find an area, to help you get your supplies that you need. To drive you around if you don't have a car, to help you find a car, to find the best area for you. Okay you have no vehicle, you don't want to live on base so you might want to live right here so you can walk onto the base or find you a sponsor, someone that can help you out based on maybe your personality, maybe another family. So all these systems they have, your medical, this is where the hospital is. I mean everything is done pretty much for you when you come in. By the services that are offered on the base. They're really, most of the time, are awesome, they failed for me here but they might not have failed for someone else and that's why they do the survey cards. But you know like White Sands, it's a remote base and they tell you when you come in, okay these are the things that you are allowed to have if you live on base. You can't have certain things. Like you cannot use your cell phone on the base so, you have to have a phone that is offered, the base had is only little phone company. So you 11 can have a cell phone, they're not saying that you can't have one. You just can't use it while you are on the base. You have to use it as soon as you leave the gate. CE: Why do you think that is? EM: Well that's because that base is not supposed to be there. CE: Ahhh. EM: Its one of those. Even when you live on base, I would give my address to company's when you ordered something, it will not show up in their system. I always told them to ship it, it will come to me, trust me. CE: Interesting. EM: It is. CE: With the Family Readiness Support personally, being a mother, being a spouse, being a child. What services do you find most helpful and most essential to your acclimating to an area. EM: I would have to say the family support system, which is probably, um, the best one for me. That one is centered mainly for dependents. And that's the big building that we have up here that has all your information about, it will give you stuff about what is in your community, your surrounding community. It gives you stuff within the community around the base. It provides information that as a parent I can use and have an open book of Utah. So it kind of tells me where I can go, what I need to do, how much things cost. And it’s great with children, it sells tickets so I can buy tickets to different places. It has cards with information if I need a ride that I can call and just get a ride. CE: So what is this, this is just a building? 12 EM: It's a family support. CE: So it's just a portion of this larger group? EM: Right. It works mainly for your dependents. CE: Okay. EM: So that for, it's for the military member to but it mainly for the dependents. It an actual place I can go for me. Cause the military, my husband has his little section that he goes to that's just for him that helps him with all the military paperwork and all the stuff that he needs for the base. And then the family support, which can be used by a service employee, DOD, civilian employees and military that's just for us, just for the dependents. So I can go and take care of anything that needs to be taken care of like housing, food, have an emergency, my husband’s gone and there's an emergency. There is someone that will watch the house, watch the animals, get me on a plane, get me where I need to go, contact my husband, let him know what is going on and then everything is taken care of. CE: I'm curious in your opinion how has services changed in this particular aspect of the military. ME: I think services has improved from the time I was with my dad to now. I think it really has improved even though I am critical of it. But, I think the reason I am critical of it is because I think about it when we first came in and there was so much support, when we first came in. So much support, I mean went me and Joe moved to Tucson we had so many people around us I was like, okay. I mean they made sure that we were taken care of. We had a house; I mean everything was taken care of. You know, they made 13 sure that you were taken care of. And I see some of these younger people coming in and there not taken care of. And I don't understand that because it is so much better than it was, than it was with my dad. And I don't' understand where the failure, where it has broken down. And I think it's because it has changed. It's no longer a SAC, MAC or PAC bases. There now AFMC, which is your, umm Air Force, what is it? Air Family Readiness things, they have them now, they no longer broke the bases up as they use to. And I don't know if that is why, it's broken down. I don't understand where the breakdown has come in. But, like with my dad, it was, it was the military member only. That's the way it was, the family fended for themselves. That's just the way it was, my mom, you took care of yourself. There was no, you know, dad made sure my mom had Power of Attorney and everything was taken care of otherwise the base was like, ehh. You lost your id card when you dad was gone? That was like death. I mean I remember loosing mine one time and I got scolded all the way from school, my mom picked me up all the way on the drive to get my new id car and I got a scolding from the guy that was there and all the way back home. CE: Well is there anything else that you can think of? That you would like to say or that we missed? ME: Well now they have family readiness now, they have deployment system. Sorry, I'm dry. Um. CE: You're fine. ME: That they did not have. When I was in. CE: Are you talking about the COPE, operation COPE now? 14 ME: You know they have the COPE the, AFE. AFI retreat and then the deployment for the spouses and kids now. They have classes they can go to. They did not have that when I was, when my husband deployed they did not have that. Everything was done within your squadron. Not within the services. I'm sorry (cough). CE: You're fine. ME: It's the dryness in here. But yeah so your support set family, family support system that you have now was not the same than it was. So it has defiantly changed. I think they are trying to improve their, the families lives so they don't have the worries. But at the same time I think they are introducing the worries. If that makes any sense. For the family support system so I don't know if that is a good thing or a bad thing. CE: Because the more you know that more you're afraid. ME: I, I, Cause see as a child, I never worried about my father not coming back. That never entered my mind. Not until I got older and realized about war. But when I was younger. That never entered my mind. I don't think it even entered my daughters mind. So, I don't know but I definitely think it has improved. I think it's a better, better system. I think it breaks down a little bit and I don't know where that breakdown has occurred and I think the reason it is breaking down is because before you had a CVPO which is your customer, where you went for your id cards, everything and everybody knew that, spouses, husbands, they don't have that anymore. They have taken that away. So the big building that we have over here where we go get our id cards? That would have been your CVPO, you would have known, I would have told you, you go to CVPO they'll take care of this, this, this and this for you. Not anymore. Now you go to your family 15 support system which is the building that they have always had, they have just incorporated all of that into there and I think it is too much for them. CE: It seems that every base is different in what they can give you where. EM: It is, it is based on your location. So if you live in a bigger city where there are more things that are offered on the outside, won't be offered so much on the inside. Like their theater on the base here. It runs by CD's or DVD's and it's run by volunteers. Whereas when you go to Wismar or Holliman that is a full blown theater just like you would have off base but, it's probably because they don't have any off base. So that could be the differences. So the bigger the base, the bigger the place that you live by the less you have of it on base. So I hope I answered all your questions. CE: I appreciate it, I definitely appreciate it, very interesting information. Cause you have the whole spectrum from a kid to now. Can I ask if you would mind having this as a permanent record of this kept? EM: That's fine. 16