Oral History Program Amy Crosbie Interviewed by Amber Robson 30 March 2017 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Amy Crosbie Interviewed by Amber Robson 30 March 2017 Copyright © 2023 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. 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These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Crosbie, Amy, an oral history by Amber Robson, 30 March 2017, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections and University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Amy Crosbie, conducted on March 30, 2017 in Amber Robson’s office at Weber State University, by Amber Robson. Amy discusses her life and experiences as a minority leader in Northern Utah. AR: This is an oral history interview with Amy Crosbie, conducted by Amber Robson on March 30, 2017 at noon. The interview was held in Amber Robson's office at Weber State University. In this interview, Amy Crosbie discusses her recollections and experiences as a women leader in Northern Utah. Can you tell me your name, position, and where you work? AC: My name is Amy Crosbie and I am the Associate Athletic Director and also Senior Administrator, which is an NCAA designation and I work here at Weber State University in the Athletic Department. AR: Please start by telling us about your background and some of your childhood experiences, teen years, where you grew up, your hobbies, family values, and education. AC: I was born and raised in California—central California. Born in Vacuole, which is really central and really hot. I was born as the youngest of three girls. Both my parents are incredible people. I was the youngest by four years. I have another sister that is about seven years older than me. My dad is a big-time cowboy, that’s how he got through college. I didn’t gain his stupidity and ride bulls, but women don’t really do that. He was a financial advisor by day and then got rid of 1 his suit and put the wranglers on as soon as he got home. I got a lot of my work ethic from him and my love for the outdoors. I had a regular childhood. I got the chicken pox. I had a mother that stayed at home that was extremely nurturing and loving. She was fabulous and I wish I had more of her in me. I was a gymnast, believe it or not. My first sport was a little bit of dancing and then I went into gymnastics. I was in gymnastics until I was in the 8th grade. Then I grew and the bars don’t go far enough apart for how much I grew. I had really short parents, so they had no idea that I was going to be tall. All three girls were tall. But I did gymnastics. At an early, early, age I learned discipline and I learned time management working with a coach, doing hard things, overcoming scary moments. I mean, as you develop in gymnastics you do crazy things. Maybe I did earn my dad’s stupidity. I did that until 8th grade. Then my oldest sister got into volleyball. She was my absolute ideal, still is one of them. I was toted around. AR: This is the one that was seven years older? AC: Yes, my oldest sister and she did horse shows. So, I was just kind of the toted around. When I got into volleyball and I got to a point where I needed to choose horses or volleyball. I chose volleyball. Horses were going to be there, I just wasn't going to show them. I went into volleyball and it defined my life in so many ways. I played multiple sports in high school. I started realizing my potential in volleyball. I started to get recruited and all that. Before even that, I 2 had great friendships—great leaders in my life. I didn't really have but maybe a couple bad coaches. You learn from them too, right? AR: Yeah. AC: Trying to give you the skinny of my life. Anyway, I went on recruiting trips, was heavily recruited which was overwhelming and exciting. I was determined I wanted to go to Oregon. They had a coaching change, my next favorite place was Utah State. Loved the girls, loved the culture there, loved the mountains. I skied since I was a little, little, tike. My parents; my dad, grew up in Idaho, my mom grew up in Utah so when we lived in California, my dad made sure we knew how to ski. I thought I would be right close to the mountains where I could ski. So, I ended up going to Utah State. Best decision of my life. It has definitely created a pathway for me. I got my undergrad in secondary education. Never did any teaching but student teaching, in the classroom at least. I have done teaching in other ways. Then, as soon as I was done playing volleyball that was a big chapter for my life, that was incredible. Finished playing volleyball and was an assistant coach for two years. I coached the girls I played with, which was interesting. It was a fairly easy transition for me because of the stock I had already built with them as a player before. Then there was traveling required for that and then the recurring travel. It was just a lot of traveling and I was married at that point. I got married at the starting of my junior year. Met my husband, he played football at Utah State and because of his mission, had played football beyond 3 that. I was actually an assistant coach and he was still a college football player. Then I got asked to work in the athletic department in the academics area. I jumped to it because it was a more stable—like more of a 9 to 5, 8 to 5. Which it turned out to be, no way, not an 8 to 5. Did that for almost 10 years. I did academic advising and then did life skills and kind of life skills development with the student athletes, which was absolutely a blast. It was a lot of hours. Then after that, Jerry Bovee kind of knew my husband a little bit and then knew a mutual coworker of mine and recruited me hard ...to come to Weber State. That decision was a scary one and a hard one, but it was so awesome. It's been amazing. I have been here probably over just a week of seven years. AR: Wow, yeah, I would say it has been a while. AC: Yeah. In the process, I had children. I have three awesome kids. My oldest is 12, a nine year-old, and a four year-old-boy. AR: Do you have any girls? AC: I have two girls. My first two are girls, 12 and nine. Keira and Ellie, and Carter is four, he is my caboose boy. AR: That’s cute. What about your hobbies? AC: Oh my gosh! I have great hobbies. I love my hobbies. I am a cyclist. So, I was into running, for a long time and then I just got a bum knee, so I transitioned to triathlons. I love triathlons. I haven't really done them since I had my last kid, but I last focused on cycling. I did Lotoja last year. That was awesome! A lot of fun, 4 a lot of time on the bike, and I recently picked up mountain biking. I am obsessed and I went to St. George three weekends in a row in February. I love mountain biking, that's a new, early hobby. I love the outdoors; I get cabin fever very quickly. I like to be out hiking, I picked up snowshoeing, and paddle boarding. I like to be outside. It's where I am the happiest and I am the happiest working out. It's kind of this weird obsession. It's a stress reliever but it also creates stress because I am like, I don't have time to work out today. Then I am all stressed about it. I like to be active. My dad is very active, he's 70 something and he still runs. He is adorable. AR: What experiences did you have in your childhood, teenage, or adult years that lead you to believe that you could be a leader? AC: No question, my experiences in sports and I have always been, like a peacemaker. I am very 'in tune' with how others ...I pay attention to people's body language or how they are feeling. I can be the quietest in the group or I can be the loudest in the group. Whatever I think the group needs. I've always been in tune. Like even at a young age with friends. Junior high was awful because it's all these girl emotions and I couldn't control it. One day, my friend liked me and one day, she didn't like me. I couldn't handle it because I am a people pleaser. I was always the one trying to reach out to others and make sure they were happy. But as far as the leadership piece, I probably started noticing it in high school. Some people will just have a natural—I don't know what the word is, and I don't know if I noticed it then. Some people have a natural ability to lead and 5 they don't know it. As they get older, they start to realize. I notice it in some of our student athletes and sometimes I let them know, because either they’re charismatic or they have a great personality or they are hard working. Whatever it is, some people have ability and people just gravitate to them as far as—I want to follow them or get to know them or whatever. I feel that I have been a charismatic individual and a person who likes to have fun but is very selfdisciplined. I am trying to think of my first leadership. I mean, I had church leadership opportunities, but it was really in college or late in high school. In college, I understood what influence means and I can use that in a positive way and motivate others and organize others. Be a listener to those who need an ear—sports for sure. I am trying to think of other experiences. Gymnastics, it's crazy what they do to little kids. You learn at a young age to fight through and it's not a horrible pain. Like they are not hurting us, but you learn to challenge your body and learn to work through pain. You learn that you can do hard things and I learned that at a really young age that I could do things like that. Certainly, my dad and my mom were very supportive. I always tease my dad that he never yelled at me or got that angry with me. But good grief, I knew when he was disappointed in me. That was heart wrenching. I knew when I disappointed him and for good reason. I just made stupid mistakes. Everyone makes dumb decisions. The way he handled me and the way he disciplined me is really impressive because now that I am a mother I am like—I could be better. He just had a way of stating things and correcting my behavior with giving me still autonomy. I think that helped me 6 be a leader in his ability and my mom's ability to discipline me, but also give me a lot of autonomy and that came from trust. I had to build the trust. Trust is a two-way street. I think my parents had a huge influence on me. My sister, because we are so far apart, when I was in high school she was in college and you know, being wiser them me, she wrote me notes. Stating what I could accomplish if I put my mind to it, so those kind of things. She had certainly had a piece to play. AR: That’s good. What would you say are your core values? How have they influenced your leadership experiences and abilities? AC: We have all done core value. Harmony is a big one for me. Trust is a big core value. I want to trust others and I want others to trust me, so my behaviors have to be in line with what needs to happen in order for someone to trust me. Discipline, I have kind of a low tolerance for people who don't have the ability to discipline themselves. Which I get, I recognize that not everyone has the same upbringing and I am willing to walk them through, but help them understand how important discipline is—so, hard work and discipline, harmony and what was the other one I just said? Trust. We will throw those ones out there and was there a second piece to that? AR: Just how they have influenced your leadership experiences and abilities. AC: 100% percent. We talked about the dedication and hard work that started from gymnastics and from having a little ranch. When I was growing up, we had about five horses and you had to take care of them. We had property, so there was a 7 lot of lawn to be mowed. Sometimes my creativity would come out and I would do designs. I don't think my dad ever appreciated that. I think that I was the only one at home for high school. It was my parents and me and I think you get treated more like an adult. My dad was big on trust. I broke his trust a couple times by lying and learned some valuable lessons early on. The leash will be looser if you just tell the truth. Parents aren't stupid, they are really smart and they figure things out. I appreciated my dad letting me fall on my face a couple times. Like I said, he didn't get super angry, but you could tell when I disappointed him. I feel like I get all my character from my family and then just the experiences you get in binging in athletics. Then obviously the other level of being a college athlete. AR: You mention your dad a lot, do you have more? I mean the relationship more with him. Was he more the disciplinary than your mom? AC: Yeah, he was more the disciplinary. My mom was absolutely the nurturer; she took such good care of me. I honestly wish I were more like my mom. Not that I would be more like my dad, but there are some things I wish I had inherited from my mom. She is always thinking of others first and there are times in my life that I get pretty selfish. She always acts on her thoughts to serve someone else. I have a lot of thoughts and I think, “I am going to do this, I am going to do this”, then I don't do it. She acts on it. I witnessed her, “Mom, is that meal for us or for somebody else.” “Like, who are we taking this to?” She was always involved in civic engagement. She was a stay at home mom, so by the time I was in high school, she was like "What am I going to do all day". 8 Even junior high, she got really involved in the community she was really into CASA [child appointment special advocate]. She would assist children who were in court, who had been taken away from their parents because of child abuse. That was a cool thing that she did. I have a pretty tight bond. My dad and I have a lot of the same loves; loves horses, loves outdoors, loves running. My mom is not as active. I just have a really high level of respect for him and the way he raised our family as the patriarch. You know to give the spiritual side, his relationship with heavenly father. At times I would just happen to catch him reading scriptures, or I would walk in and he would be praying. Little moments. He is like the toughest, roughest, dude. I mean he is a cowboy and he was humble. I just gravitate to him. But I call my mom all the time. My mom and I have a great relationship. AR: That’s cool, for sure, yeah you can tell. AC: When it comes to leadership and discipline, I really look to my dad and the life path that I have taken through my career. I have been thankful to have him as a mentor or even like somebody who has modeled the one. AR: Yeah, especially where you’re at, I can see that being important. Name a person who has a tremendous impact on you as a leader. Maybe someone that has been a mentor to you. Why has this person impacted your life generally and your leadership abilities specifically? AC: I’m going to talk about Jerry. He is one of my many, but he is my current. Jerry, first of all, he has a way with people that is incredible. He is a direct person 9 within my line work and he is my direct report. He is my boss and he has provided so many countless examples, opportunities, and interactions with me to help me better balance my life and better interact with others—handle difficult situations, stressful situations. So he has been an incredible mentor. Just through examples and the way he manages me as an employee. I tell people all of the time that I work with him, not for him. I feel that every day. We are a partnership, in a sense, we are co-equals. He comes to me with concerns and questions he needs help with, bouncing ideas around. It feels like such an equal partnership and I tease him that he has this uncanny ability to have difficult conversations with people and they will walk out of the door with a smile. Or we have had to let people go and watching Jerry's process in that is quite a long process. We have never done anything like snap at anyone we have let go. We have had a long process of trying to develop them—ultimately had to part ways. He is just real, he is not above anyone. He is extremely knowledgeable. He cares about our student athletes. I have watched him with his kids. I have watched him with his wife. I have nothing but great things to say. It's a cool thing because when I travel the country for conferences or anything NCAA related and I talk to my friends who are in my same role, they don't have the same relationship with their Athletic Directors. Some of them do, but I still don't think it's as good as what I got. I think that is a big part of the happiness in my job. In my excitement to come to work. AR: What drives you? 10 AC: Yeah, it drives me. I hate saying this, but I sometimes spend more time with my work family. Which I hate, but if you are going to spend time with people you better be enjoying them right? All of my direct reports I try to pattern, but you have to be unique in your own way. You have to be authentic. I really learned a lot about the way he handles himself, treats others, and gets the job done. He holds people accountable and sometimes I am a softy, because I am a peacemaker and I am a people pleaser. I worry about that, but I have learned that I can find ways that I can be assertive. Have strong leadership, but maintain those relationships at the same level and it becomes mutual respect, you have to gain their respect and they will respect you. AR: That’s a real talent. AC: I mean his is assertive and he'll say exactly what he feels, but gosh. He is able to pull it off and hopefully there aren't people who despise him—I mean we all have enemies. He is able to do it, or he circles back and has side conversations to make sure he didn't offend anyone. He's a stronger voice then me. I want to get there at some point but I have a different approach. AR: What are the biggest challenges being a women leader in Northern Utah and what do you do to overcome them? AC: Well honestly my biggest challenge is balancing my family. I struggle with that, I think with what I struggle the most is I feel guilty when I am not with my family. I feel guilty when I am not doing what I do at work, or like you have to balance that out. I always feel guilty—I'm super happy to take a child to a dental appointment, 11 that's a silly fulfillment, but I like that. I am doing it, but then I am like I am going to be late to work. I worry about how people perceive it and that goes back to my people pleasing stuff. And honestly probably nobody even cares but the work life balance is tough and balancing a family—especially since my kids are getting older, just being there for them. My job is exhausting. I am with people all day and a lot of times it's really managing people. So people come in and have issues and problems. AR: Yeah, that’s a lot in a day. AC: It doesn't feel like the full Amy is walking through the door when I get home. It's more like the half Amy or 1/4 Amy is left in the tank. I don't help myself because I commute, but commuting has provided a nice little—I mean it's a preparation to work and a decompress after work. That's the struggle I have. I don't have a lot of role models in my job as far as Athletic Directors. There is not a ton of female. There are two in our conference right now. One brand new one and one that has been around a couple of years, that's always nice. I have colleagues across the county that do what I do. You know it's just interesting, when you see more women doing it you seem more confident in your ability to do it—not that I am not afraid to be a trailblazer. AR: That’s still nice to have the same relationship or the same struggle and there’s someone you can reach out to. AC: Exactly, there’s people on campus that I appreciate having relationships with who are working women and have families. I worry about my kids. I worry about my 12 impact on my kids. That’s the negative part. Then I can flip it, I realized through our conflict class how negative I am with myself and females tend to do that. So, you have that, “Am I good enough or did I do that right?” But I have learned to shut it up and be happy with who I am and stop telling myself I am such a bad mom and set goals. I just have to be conscience, I have to be very conscience about how I am with my kids and really help remind myself. And on the flip-side, my kids are incredible. They are supper confident, sometimes too confident. They have great self-esteem and they’re not afraid to...I mean they know their voice. They’re independent, and they have to survive, with me. You know my 12 year old can cook breakfast, lunch, and dinner. It's like she knows how to clean the house, she is assertive in certain ways. I think a lot of that has come because I am a working mom. They know how to function without me and they love when I am home. So, I think there are some bonuses to that and I have to remind myself that. I have to be calculated in the fact that I get to go to work. When I was getting my master’s, that was really tough. I had to remind myself that I am setting an example. “We are doing homework together. I would rather be doing your homework.” But I would sit down and they would see me doing homework on family vacations, which was awful, but I think it was setting an example so my girls have high aspirations for themselves. I just pray that I can help them become who they want to be and not get tangled up in—you know help guide them. AR: Does your husband work? 13 AC: My husband works at Utah State. AR: And is he a coach there? AC: He worked in the athletic department with me for quite the same—few years. But now, he is the chief financial officer. About the time that I had left Utah State, he went into central administration. So he know he is the director of purchasing but now he has a lot of flexibility. Thank heavens, because he keeps us going and I could spend hours talking about how great he is. I think that in order to be successful with what I am doing I have a really supportive husband. Since he has a background in athletics, he is understanding of what I am doing. He was in that department and he understands the hours it takes. He get's it when I say, "I have a late night tonight.” Like I have a late night tonight so I can support our spirit squad and they have their big national sendoff tonight. He gets it, he understands. He doesn't love it, but the guy can cook he can do laundry. We are very much an equal partnership. Sometimes, unequal on my part. Sometimes the struggle of you’re a mom and there is just nothing—I mean there are just some things you want to be there for. It's tough for me when I get a call from my kid, (and it doesn't happen often), but it's "I am not feeling well.” I have to coordinate somebody else of my husband to pick them up, when I want to be the one to pick them up. You know? AR: That’s tough. 14 AC: I want to go on field trips. I try and Jerry is really supportive of those types of things and the struggle of a work life balance. People ask, “How do you do it?” And I don't know if I do it. AR: You’re like, “I am sure, today feels good. “ AC: Go ask my kids what rating they would give me. There is probably frustrating things from my children’s perspective, but they embrace it well. They probably like me not being there because when I get home, I am like, “Homework.” My middle child said once, when I was away for work and I called Jeff. I said, “Are you still up?” They said, “Haven’t you figured out that we break all the rules when you’re not here and Dad’s in charge.” AR: That’s funny. AC: That’s why Dad is the fun one. AR: What advice would you give emerging young women and minority leaders to be successful? AC: I would definitely say, “Believe in your voice and be confident in your abilities and what you know.” I think tell yourself everyday who you want to become and think…that affirmations seem to be silly but I actually did write myself an affirmation once when I was just beating myself up as a mom and I think it helps and just reminds yourself. Getting up every morning and having a purpose and knowing who you want to be. Don’t get discouraged by people who don’t’ think 15 you can do it. I had a basketball coach in high school that said, “You will never…”and he didn’t want me to play club volleyball. He told me that I would never play college volleyball. He said that it was a stupid idea and, “Do you realize that the percentage…”and I don’t know at this point if he wanted me to play basketball. I wasn’t a very great basketball player, but you know that could have destroyed me and it did a little bit. You have to learn to be your own cheerleader sometimes. I think another thing I would say is surround yourself with powerful women. Know them and get to know what they do. Get them as support and create a pathway of what you want to do and there is just no limits. There are so many great stories that people tell of women doing incredible things and it continues to get better and better. I am being jumbled. What’s in my head is, “Don’t be hard on yourself.” I should listen to my own advice—but don’t be hard on yourself, be confident in your skin and know what makes you happy and then the other big one is that you have make time for yourself. If you are not taking care of yourself you can't be ultimately your best self. I think people miss that one. They don't think about it and if they would think about their last time. There is nothing that a woman can't do. I have never been like this, you know, flag bearer but I just I think that another thing that helps me is my selfconfidence. I think I got that from my parents and I got it from my team mates. I think another approach and it’s a learned approach is in situations, always look for wins. I never—like I am the person who could have the worst waiter and I am not going to say a word. l try to remember that people have their own situations. 16 AR: And battles. AC: Pretty much they are going to be worst than mine and I try to keep that in perspective, like switching shoes. When you come up to situations like that, I try to find a win, win. I don't think its weak to get to win a situation. I think women can trip up if they’re all about win/lose in an argument and a decision making situation. I will tell you that there is a lot to be said about surrounding yourself with incredible, powerful, wonderful women. Have those people in your life. I think that girls need girl time, or we just worry. We have extra pressure as to I am a women in this position and we just assume that people are thinking, “What is she doing here?” AR: Your mind first goes to that weakness. AC: I think that your body language is different. I have to have meetings with our entire football coaching staff. I sometimes have meetings with an entire room of football players. I have to think about my posture, think about my presence, like I have to think, because I want to portray that I am confident in my abilities in what I am going to say and what I am going to do. AR: In an atmosphere like that, how do you prepare for that? AC: There is no question that you just can’t get over the fact that you are the only woman in the room. You have to come in with a presence and that’s shoulders up, make eye-contact, all those things, and they respect you. I have to remind myself that some of these guys, the most important person in their life is their mom. You realize that they have women in their life that they respect. It starts 17 with my presence and my appearance. Making sure I am professional and kind of at least portray that I have confidence. Whether I do or not. AR: Fake it ‘till you make it. AC: Fake it ‘till you make it. That reminded me of my first experience. I was asked by our stake president to speak at a young men’s conference. I was the only girl and I was 16. AR: Wow, so you were young! AC: I was young. I remember my dad helping me with that and he did speak to me about portraying confidence. AR: Interesting. AC: That’s funny because that had never actually popped into my mind before. I mean, I remember the situation, but I remember him telling me, “Be confident in what you are going to say and make eye contact, stand up there and be strong.” AR: Like, own it. AC: Yeah, own it. AR: Okay, last question, what other insights can you share about being a woman leader in Northern Utah? Anything that you might feel like you left out? AC: It's funny how you say Northern Utah. AR: I know I am assuming it is a religious slant on it. I guess. 18 AC: I haven't had those pressures or I have chosen not to worry about that. You could worry like what would people think. I had one friend tell me, “You’re lucky because you’re not dealing with…” like when we all go for walks, we start gossiping and I don't have a clue what's going on with anybody and I haven't received those pressures. But it is something I think about, I live in a fabulous neighborhood. There is like three of us that work and the rest stay home and thank heavens they stay home because they help me out too. They are wonderful. AR: That’s interesting that you said, “I chose not to.” When you were saying you have chosen not to take those things. AC: Yeah, could you imagine if we heard every negative thing about ourselves? Every stupid thing that somebody said that doesn’t know what your situation is. If people have said stuff and honestly, that’s okay. I have an awesome husband, I have great kids, a great job, and a great boss. I live in a beautiful place of the country. AR: And people who know you, know you. In your good and bad. AC: Yeah. AR: They know the true Amy. AC: Things that rocked my world in junior high. Oh, gosh it was such a bad time I want to blink it away. My daughter is in seventh grade so she has had her moments, but you just work through it. People could really write a horrible story if they chose to include opinions that don't matter. I believe in putting people first. 19 I think when you put people first and think about others’ thoughts, feelings, and how you have an impact on that. That is good way to approach things. I have never been a title chaser and I'm not big on waving the flag of what my title is. I just want to make sure at the end of the day—that my legacy is that people know I cared about them. That they enjoy being around me and that I worked hard. We could all probably be more strategic about, you know, you go to a funeral and you leave thinking, “What is my legacy? What am I going to leave behind? What are my actions?” I have been blessed in many ways. AR: Well, you know that I think you are amazing. AC: You know it’s hard to talk about yourself. AR: It is. AC: Women aren’t good at that either. AR: We struggle at that too. AC: I think we worry about fighting for what we want sometimes. How is it perceived? My dad told me when I took this job, “Make sure you negotiate.” I am like, “Are you kidding me, what?” It’s hard to negotiate when you’re like, “Thank you.” I hate to put men and women in different boxes because I don’t think they deserve to be, but I think it can be easier for some. In my work environment, I feel respected and that I deserve to be there. They treat me well. I haven’t had to deal with that and I feel bad for those who do. 20 AR: Thank you Amy for taking the time with us today and sharing some of your memories. I appreciate you letting us know your thoughts and feelings on the subject. Thanks again for the interview and I wish you all of the best, thanks. 21