Oral History Program George Falk Interviewed by William Anderson 03 May 1972 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah George Falk Interviewed by William Anderson 03 May 1972 Copyright © 2012 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in University Archives. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The Weber State College/University Student Projects have been created by students working with several different professors on the Weber State campus. The topics are varied and based on the student's interest or task for a specific assignment. These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Falk, George, an oral history by William Anderson, 03 May 1972, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with George Falk. The interview was conducted on May 3, 1972, by William Anderson in Falk’s home. Falk discusses his life and experiences he had while growing up in Weber County. WA: OK George when were you born and where? GF: In Salt Lake City, May 18, 1914. WA: Where did you go to school? GF: I went one year to Pingree’s School and I finished the rest of my Junior and grade school at Lewis Junior High and I went to Ogden High School, WA: OK George when did you move from Salt Lake to Ogden? GF: When I was two years old. WA: And you've lived here the rest of that time. GF: All my life. WA: OK now, when did you first start working? Did you start working in high school? GF: I started wooing when I was 13 years old. WA: Where was that? GF: Arnold Grocery Store, just around the corner. WA: And where did you go from there? GF: I went to the Western Union, pumping a bicycle and delivered messages. WA: Alright... right at this time, about 1932 during the depression, how did that hit you and your family? 1 GF: Well, I was still at home. It was about.... my mother had a little money from my Dad's insurance and with what little that I could bring in when I was a kid we managed. WA: Did you see any affect at all the depression had in Ogden? GF: It definitely did have a lot of effect. There were a lot of people out of work. I was one of the fortunate ones even when I was a kid I could find a job. There were a lot of grownups that couldn't find jobs and there was a lot of welfare and stuff at that time. At that time prices were down naturally because there was no income. WA: Just a big lack of jobs all over then for everybody. GF: That's right. At that time railroading of course was the biggest industry in this town. If you weren't a railroader it was pretty rough. WA: OK... so did Ogden develop at all at this time or did it come to a standstill? GF: Yes, it was developing continually. I don't think Ogden has ever stood still. It has marked time a few times but I don't think it’s ever stood still. WA: So, the depression really didn't cut down on construction work. GF: It did for quite a while until the WPA came along and got money going and people went on WPA projects. WA: Explain what WPA projects are. GF: I forget what the initials stand for. It was a program started by President Roosevelt. In other words in most cases they had ten men digging post holes and ten men after them filling them up. And they had a lot of forest conservation and stuff like that to keep a lot of these guys busy and have a little earning income to get by. 2 WA: That was just too… GF: It was a government project; it was an artificial build-up of employment actually. It was started off, I think, with the C.C.C. I can't remember what that means... Civilians Conservation Corps, or something that had a part of it. It was just government projects. Roosevelt thought it was necessary to get people working to get an income, to get them off the street and let them be a little self-sustaining. A lot of these guys didn't believe in going on welfare or loafing. If they could get a job they got a job. I know at that time grown men were out raking lawns end stuff where they could get it. I remember when I was 15 or 14 years old guys that really wanted to work would come around to shovel your walks or the snow off your roof for 50 cents and stuff like that. A lot of people wanted to work and they'd work at anything. They weren't too choosy, a lot of them. WA: When could you tell that the depression was starting to end? GF: I really couldn't tell that. WA: Did you notice any change at all? GF: Not particularly. I wasn't too old then, and when I got married things were still pretty tough, but I left Western. Union and went to work for the American Optical Company for Ten Bucks a week and when I got a fabulous raise to Twelve Bucks I got married, I got raised to Fourteen Bucks when young George was born. But I had work and we seemed to get along. Even though it was a low income, prices were down, rent was cheap. And as I recall I was one of the lucky ones that has always had a job. There was a lot of them that weren't that lucky and a lot of them that probably fell into this welfare trap and the ones who didn't want to work. I think that right now that's the case in a lot of 3 this welfare I'm not saying it's so in all cases. Some people are unable to work and I think they're justified to be on welfare roles. In this day and. age if a man is physically able to and willing to work he can probably find a job. He maybe will have to belittle himself a little and go below his standards of living but I think anything would be better than going on welfare. WA: I imagine you weren't around at the start of 25th street. GF: No, not at the start. That started back in the good old railroad days when, I imagine, the Golden Spike was driven. That was a little before my time but I did see, as a kid and a messenger, quite a bit of activity up and down 25th street. WA: Would you mind telling a little of that? GF: Fist fights, beer joints and stuff like that and houses of ill repute as you might call them, that sort of thing seemed to flourish. As I got older I understand that in a lot of railroad towns these things just went on. I mean it was a typical Railroad town. As I recall Harm Perry was the mayor at that time and he tried to clean it up and he practically failed. It was just something they couldn't cope with. Law enforcement wasn't in those days what it is now and I think a lot of your city officials just kind of winked at it a little bit. Live and let live. If that's the way they wanted to live let them. If you didn't like it you moved off 25th street and went up the hill. WA: You think it was the main center... 25th street? GF: Yep... Ogden definitely had a reputation in those days ... 25th Street was one of the roughest, toughest streets in the country. It had that reputation. WA: Did you see the decline then where it went dorm from what it was to what it is now? 4 GF: Very gradually, yes it did. They've cleaned it up. A lot of those buildings were old buildings. When they started cracking down on prostitution and that sort of thing they closed a lot of those hotels down there which were old hotels and they tore then down and that didn't give them any place to go. WA: Now, you mentioned earlier to me.... you names two people you thought started to clean up 25th street. GF: Well, I can't remember now... who actually did. I know Harm Perry did. Harm Perry was a good mayor and he tried to make money for the town, but as far as actually cleaning it up I think it was a gradual thing. A lot of people had parts in it. It gradually cleaned itself up with law enforcement and new officials coming in. I can't recall now. I think Harm Perry got more publicity as mayor of Ogden than any other mayor. We've had sane good ones and we've had some that probably weren't too good. Back in the days of Bill Rackham and a few of the commissioners, I really think they tried to do the job, I really can't remember when, more or less, they were driven out. Of course a lot of it still exists down there. I don't mean prostitution, but you have your beer joints and your brawls and I guess any town if going to have them regardless of where they're located, 25th Street ha pens to be ours. WA: Has Ogden City changed since you moved here in 1917? GF: Yes. WA: Can you explain some of these, like in downtown Ogden and Washington Boulevard? GF: Well, for one thing... Broom Hotel was quite a famous hotel and was a landmark at that time. It has been torn down. They built Commercial Security Bank on that comer. When 5 I was a kid we used to go to the city park and listen to the band concerts. My dad was a participant in the lady's band and in the Elk's Band and before that in the Southern Pacific Band. They used to give concerts there on 25th where the old city hall used to be. And quite often they'd have Sunday concerts out at Lorin Parr Park. They had a little amphitheater there and they band would play. And that is all gone. Back in the earlier days the old court house was up on 24th above Washington where a good part of ZCMI is now. It used to be the Sheriff's Office and the court house and that of bourse was torn down for improvement. Right on the comer was the Central Building that housed the bank way back in the early, early days. Eventually that got more or less condemned. All of the renters moved out of it and it was vacant for quite a while and I believe that W.T. Grant bought the property and Grant's tore down the old Center Building and built Grant's Store which eventually turned into be ZCMI. They did any extensive program on that building and improved that comer. I think Grant's was the forerunner of it. WA: Now… Washington was the main boulevard at that time. GF: It has always been the main boulevard. WA: Was it dirt then? GF: No, not in those days, it was paved when I was a kid, but I have seen pictures in the dear old Standard Examiner when it was nothing but a mud hole all up and down 25th Street and along Washington. They had... not in my days, they're all gone... but they had Blacksmith Shops and stuff like that located along Washington. They had... well…It wasn't what you'd call a retail merchant's center actually, but it gradually built into that; it was during my time. I'm talking a little about what was before my time. 6 WA: Did all the people live right down here by Washington then? GF: Most people lived around on 27th Street. I think Browning’s owned that comer property. They had one of the nicest homes, big home. I was never in it. All I could see was from the outside. It had a nice yard and fence around it. It was quite a while after that that they started up on the East Bench. Now they're clear up to the mountains. Actually the main residential section was down around, oh, I'd say 26th Street, Lincoln, Grant, Washington, moving South to 29th, 30th and on out on the highway to Salt Lake. Roy was very, very small, Sunset was small ... Clearfield was a nice community, it was small ... and they have all grown thru Hill Field building up. During the war there was a naval base, a supply base at Clearfield, and that really built that area up. Right now with the decline of the railroad your government installations have more or less supplanted the employment. There's probably more people employed in your government institutions than the railroad ever hired. Around here even when I was a kid railroading was quite a thing. Everyone was a railroader, that is not everyone but the biggest majority of your working men were with the Railroad. WA: When did Hill Field come in the area? GF: During the war. WA: Same with IRS? GF: IRS came in much later than that, IRS is fairly new. But they, what do you call it… the DDO. The DDO came in during the war. It was a big supply center. At that time Hill Field had hospital service and they had a lot of servicemen thru here and Hill Held was actually the jumping off point for overseas duty and they processed a lot of soldiers thru 7 here. In Brigham City they built and opened the Bushnell Hospital to take care of the wounded after they had been wounded during, of course, in the war. They had a big operation up there as far as a hospital is concerned and it was considered one of the best between I guess, here and Denver. They put a lot of wounded people thru there and rehabilitated a few of them. But it was just a hospital find more or less to recuperate, to see what they could do, depending on the wounds and that sort of thing. So Bushnell grew at that time. It seems our biggest growth came when these installations moved in here. WA: That started employment up. GF: Right... yes. WA: How did the war affect you and your job? GF: It didn't affect me at all. I was declared (I don't know what the word was in that day)... but vital to the health and welfare of the community, so I got a deferment as far as going to the army was concerned. And we used to process glasses for the soldiers that were leaving Bushnell to go home. From American Optical Company we process, oh probably 100 pair of glasses a day. At the same time we processed glasses for the boys leaving Hill Field to go overseas. It was required that soldiers going overseas have two pair of glasses. At that time we were a distribution center for these glasses and at that time we processed quite a few for the San Francisco area. For that reason I was declared vital to the welfare of the community and that sort of thing. WA: Did that cut down the number of people working under you, didn't it? 8 GF: No, we went to girl employment at that time. There was only two fellows working in the place. We had about eleven girls that we taught how to process a pair of glasses. At that time man help was naturally very hard to get and deferments were hard to get so we had to turn to women help which we did. WA: Since the war then up until now have you noticed any big other changes in Ogden or around? GF: Oh yes. They've built buildings, you can look up on the hill, housing has improved, gone further east and further south, like I said, out in Roy, in Sunset, out in that district between here and Salt Lake. Bountiful has grown there thru Salt Lake. That doesn't have too much to do with Ogden but some people live in Bountiful that work in Ogden I think. I'm not too sure of that but... it brought a lot of people here from Logan to work. I guess they still commute from Logan and Brigham. Of course when Thiokol came in out at Brigham that was a great boost. A lot of people from Ogden commute to Thiokol for work and a lot of people from Brigham. WA: Then you figure the government has really put a boost around here? GF: That's definitely my opinion, yes. WA: OK George, I guess that will probably about do i t . 9