Oral History Program Elizabeth Vance Interviewed by Patricia Buchanan 5 August 1980 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Elizabeth Vance Interviewed by Patricia Buchanan 5 August 1980 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. 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It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Vance, Elizabeth, an oral history by Patricia Buchanan, 5 August 1980, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Elizabeth Vance. The interview was conducted on August 5, 1980, by Patricia Buchanan, in Ogden, Utah. Vance discusses her involvement in politics and her experiences as a Democratic National Committee Woman. PB: Elizabeth, tell me something about your life and how you got involved in politics. EV: I was born in Mount Pleasant, Utah, which is 160 miles south of Ogden. My parents were Charles W. and Mary Christianson Ebritt. We came to Ogden when I was 12 years old. I went to school at Ogden High School and then at Henager's Business College and after that I worked at the Southern Pacific Telegraph office for seven years. I married John M. Vance. We had two boys and one daughter. Mr. Vance later became ill. I knew Elva Wilkinson who was running for County Recorder. She was a childhood friend of mine from the time I was 12 years old, and she needed some help to become elected. My sister-in-law and I covered every house from 36th Street to North Street, west of Washington, including west Ogden from house to house. Elva was elected and she gave me a position. At that time, it wasn't easy to get one of these positions. You had to have your district chairman and your legislative chairman sign a form, then you had to meet before a committee. There were about 15 to 30 people for each position. My father had taken me to vote when I was 21 and my father was active in the Democratic Party. Through this connection, and through Elva pushing for me and some of the neighbors in my neighborhood, I met with the committee and was chosen to work for Elva. I received at that time $.75 an hour. I worked there, all together, for about seven years. 1 While I was there, Ruth Jenkins worked in the next office in Judge E. Brown's office. I was fixing things for Elva to say. I was really bashful, but I would fix things that I thought she should say at these meetings. One day Bruce said to me, "If you don't get up now and say these things that you already told her to say, I'm going to tell them. I'll embarrass you and Elva both." We had a meeting at the Utah Power and Light hall, it was on 24th Street in the Eccles Building at that time. I did get up, but I about shook myself to death with fright. Then they wanted someone to run for State Chairlady of the Young Democrats. In those days we had 500 Democrats whom we counted as young Democrats. I ran for the position and won. I was with Cal Rampton who was the State President and I was the State Chairlady. Two years later, he and Clyde Miller were running against each other and Cal beat him. Clyde was elected the next time, and I was State Chairlady for him. Then I became National Committeewoman of the Young Democrats. We went to Louisville, Kentucky to the first Democratic National Convention that I've ever been to. We had many of the key people of the Young Democrats such as Fishburn and Patricia Firestone who came from the east. We had canyon parties and brunches. We had a brunch once that 500 people came to from as far south as St. George and as far north as Logan. We had it at the Hotel Ben Lomond. We filled the big hall and out into the hall. There were 500 of us there. Donna Adams was the Mistress of Ceremonies. This is a little note that you might enjoy about Stewart P. Dobbs who was the National Committeeman for the Senior Party. We had Grover Giles who was the Attorney General dress up as a senorita from Mexico. He had high heeled shoes on and a veil over his face. We supposedly had gone to the airport to pick him up, but we didn't. He was here in town, 2 at my home dressing. We took him to the hotel and made him acquainted with Stewart P. Dobbs. Stewart P. Dobbs was so darn nice to him that it was just pathetic to the senorita. When he unveiled his face, Stewart P. Dobbs just about died and he never did get over it, thinking that it was the most terrible thing that had ever happened to make a fool of him in front of everyone. But we had glorious times in those days. We had fun and we did the work. We would have one hundred young Democrats go out into the different districts and go from house to house for the Democratic Party. We had lists of every Democrat in Weber County. On Election Day we knew who to call. We would have one person in the voting place with a list. Someone would come in and check with him and they would go and tell the person on the phone that we had three of them, one in the voting place, one to check with him, and one to do the telephoning. We would call about three times a day to make sure that they had gone to vote. This is the thing that the Republicans are doing today that we did at least 40 years ago. Then it was time for me to move on a little bit so I was County Chairlady for Weber County for two terms. We worked awfully hard for Walter K. Granger. It was the Young Democrats of this county that really put him over. He was from Cedar City and a U.S. Congressman. He had the prerogative of choosing people for the 1950 census and I was chosen to be the assistant manager of the ten northern counties. I worked at the post office here in Ogden. One day my district chairman, Henry James, came into the census office and said, "Elizabeth, we want you to run for state representative." 3 I said, "Mr. James, there are at least five men running now." "Yes," he said, "but we don't want them, we want you. The party has been good to you, now we want you to run for this position." I said that there hadn't been a woman elected here in years. He told me that there hadn't been a woman elected here in 42 years but that he thought I could be. I told him my husband was out on the railroad and I wouldn't dare to do this without consulting him. "You know," he said, "the filing closes at five o'clock tonight." I called down at the railroad and Mr. Vance wouldn't be in until about nine o'clock, so I had a real decision to make. I thought that I could file and, if it didn't work out, I could withdraw. At ten minutes to five, I quit my job with the U.S. Census, a position that I really did need. I went up to the court house. There were about 40 people there gathered around, waiting to see if I was going to do it. I came in and I remember seeing Bruce and so many of the people waiting there for me. I went in and filed. I had told Mr. James that if I do file, he'd have to go with me to all the dele- gates. He said that he would and so I filed. Later, my husband came home and I had quite a time telling him, but he didn't seem to object too much. I went and worked then for two weeks at the Census with no money to finish up the work that I had to do. Before going to the convention, we went to every delegate and we eliminated four of the men. One man was running with me then, and his name was Tom Laffas. I covered every house in my district from house to house. I say now that that is the only way that anyone is ever elected. 4 I was elected as the first lady in 42 years. I served seven terms in the House of Representatives and I enjoyed every minute of those seven terms. At that time, we got $500 a year. That was our pay, and you couldn't be working when you were doing that. I would like to bring in a couple of things now. I did work, but I meant for the 60 days that you had to lay off wherever you were working. We were having a pretty rough time financially. One time, I needed a position so badly, but I didn't want Blaine Peterson and Bruce Jenkins or the rest of them to know if I could pass a test or if I couldn't. They were hiring at Thiokol, so I went up to Brigham City and spent four hours one morning and four hours in the afternoon on this test and I happened to pass it. I was really grateful for that. None of them down here could say that I couldn't pass it. I didn't use my political influence. I was then a state representative. I did not use that at all. I went out to Thiokol, and the lady told me that she wanted me to see Mr. Matt Allen. I saw him and I got a position checking books and filing. One day they sent for me from the head office and said that they were creating a clerical pool and they wanted me to take it over. I had ten girls under me at Thiokol working for me. Blaine Peterson, who was now a U.S. Congressman, and Ted Moss came through the office. I had never told Thiokol that I was a state representative. When Mr. Nullman and Mr. Allen brought them by, the came over, patted me and put their arms around me. They said, "How are you, Elizabeth? How is it going down in the legislature?" I could have just fainted away. I thought that I might lose this position if I'm mixed up in politics. Rather than lose it, it was a big asset to me. I was able to go the next time to the House of Representatives in January and my position was held for me. 5 You might be interested in a few things that happened at the legislature that I'm proud of to this day. One of them was the meat inspection bill. I never wanted to be known as a crusader for anything. I wanted to be a legislator that would consider all factions of life in our beautiful state. We never had a meat inspection bill. I was talking to Judy and Don Parks and they were telling me about this. They had tried for three terms to get a meat inspection bill and I suggested we try it. A fellow up in Heber City was a big cattle rancher. He was a state representative and a Republican. We didn't have the majority, and I knew that we had to have someone with some clout in the Republican Party, so I went to him and said, "Did you know that there was no meat inspection bill in Utah?" "What?" he asked. "No, there isn't," I said. "They're selling some meat out by Roy that they say is unfit for human consumption." "Is that true?" he asked. "Yes," I said, "that's true. Why don't you sponsor a bill and I'll co-sponsor it?" I knew that a Republican had to sign it first because they had the majority. We put the bill over and it was the first meat inspection bill in the state of Utah. Then there was the case where this girl was killed up here in Sullivan Hollow. She was raped and killed. I thought that something should be done. They catch these fellows, put them in jail for a while, and then let them go. I was of the opinion that they were mentally ill. I put in a bill which stated that anyone committed to the jail for this type of thing, for molesting, had to be examined by three judges and then sent to the state mental hospital for the rest of their life unless they were cured. The bill passed. But in the next session, the attorneys couldn't stand for that 6 and so, with the majority of the other side of the aisle, the Republican side, they nullified this bill. That was the first bill in the state of Utah that was for the protection of children. On the state industrial school (inspection committee), they chose someone from the House of Representatives and someone from the Senate. We would go out without the industrial school or any of the schools knowing that we were coming. We would go there and surprise them and look things over. We went on a Sunday morning. I'll never forget it. There was Mr. Johnson, a state representative from Randolph; Sol Sullivan, a senator from Tooele; and myself. When we got to the state industrial school, we looked around and they showed us up above the gymnasium where there was a little cell. These boys were in a cell 4 feet wide and 8 feet long. They had no toilet facilities except for what they called a slop jar. "What if one of those boys became ill in the night?" I asked. "How would you know it? They could die before they could get over to the administration building." It was quite a ways from there to the administration building or to the kitchen. They said that the boys just stomp on the floor and I said that it was a long time to stomp between Saturday and Monday morning. I said, "I want you to put a wire from here so that they can talk to the kitchen where there's always someone there, cooking night or day." "We can't afford it," they said. I told them that they'd better afford it, and so they did. I told them that I resented this type of thing. They were just like animals in here. We looked at some of them. Some of the boys had shoes on, but they were crippling their feet. Their shoes were ill-fitting. Some 7 had great big shoes on and small feet, with no stockings and it was in January. They just had a shirt on and no underclothing. I said to Mr. Jacobs, "I want some clothes on these boys. I want these boys clothed just as though they were at home. This is ridiculous, in the state of Utah, to treat these boys this way." He said, "Well, we can't afford it." Of course, though, they were always looking for money for their budget. I said, "You'd better afford it. And I'm going to tell you something, if you don't have decent shoes, decent clothing, socks, and underclothing on these people by Wednesday morning, when the session opens, I will expose this to the whole legislature." "You wouldn't dare," he said. "You try me," I replied. On Tuesday, Mr. Jacobs came to the House of Representatives and told me that these things had been done. Then I sponsored a bill for two buildings and a nurses building at the state mental hospital. They had the patients out in the hall. They were giving them shock treatments even in the halls. It was terrible at the state mental hospital. We did get that straightened out. We got two new buildings and a nurses building down there. Then I went over to the children's hospital in American Fork, and that was the worst sight I have ever seen in my life. There were children lying on a gymnasium floor. I'll never forget one child who had a head as big around as two basketballs. They didn't have room, so I helped sponsor a bill for them. 8 I never sponsored anything alone--we always had plenty of help. The men would do things, if someone would start it, but so many of them were interested in roads and farms and all this type of thing. I was so interested in seeing that some of the sick and the needy had lobbyists for them. I went to the children's hospital and they put on a little program for us. There was a little tiny fellow there with Down's syndrome. He was dressed up like Sousa, and he was leading the band. The band consisted of pie plates and this type of thing. These little children really do have rhythm. I said to the teacher, "Look, if I could make arrangements for these boys and girls to come up and play this music for the legislature, would you do it?" "We would love to," she said. "We just don't have any facilities here. We do need something from the appropriations committee." So I had them come up. I made arrangements, and they came up. There wasn't a dry eye in the House of Representatives. Those men, those great big men who were supposed to be so tough, just broke down, and later we got two new buildings in American Fork. That's the type of thing that I worked for. I put in the first bill for a four-year college at Weber College. On the last day, in the last hour, at 11 o'clock at night, we put the bill through for one of the buildings at Weber College. They always said that that building should have been called the Vance Building. Dr. Folger and Dr. Clark were the two men that came down there and worked so hard for Weber College, and they should be recognized as long as they live. They both said that that building should be called the Vance Building because they just didn't think that there was a chance for that to go over. 9 I helped with a road to show that it wasn't just one type of thing that I was trying to do. They wanted a road from Boulder, Utah over the mountain. Nathella Griffith was the state representative. When you get an appropriations bill, it is a "sacred cow". They're not supposed to open this bill. But they had promised her that they would put that road in from Boulder. So here came the appropriations bill and there was no sign of the road. She started crying to me, and I mean real tears, because they'd never had a lady elected over there. This was the thing that she had worked so hard for. I said, "Nathella, stop crying, when it comes, you just stand up and tell these people what you just told me. You're a school teacher, and you can do it. Then I'll back you and we'll do it." She did stand up and tell them what they had been promised, and when we opened the appropriations bill for the first time in years and years, she got her road. In the legislature, I tried to help all types of people. A few of the things that I did work on were a raise for the registration agents, judges, and polling places. I worked for anyone that didn't have a lobby down there. They needed help. Those were the kind of people that I tried to help. An instance that you might be interested in was when Walt Granger was running against Stringfellow. Stringfellow had at that time told some stories about being such a hero. Of course, he was a crippled fellow, and everyone believed everything he said. Then on "This is Your Life", it came out that none of the things he said had been true. He had not been hurt the way he said he was. Walt Granger was running against him, and they brought out President Dixon and President Dixon beat Walt Granger, but Walt would not, in any way, shape or form, be mean and vindictive. He just let it ride rather than fight for 10 the thing and expose all this. But he just said that if he couldn't win it fair, he wouldn't try. They brought out Dr. Dixon and he won the position. There were so many things that could be said about the Democratic Party. I have loved this party and I do love it. Then I worked in the Recorder's office, like I said for seven years, and fourteen years in the legislature. Then we put in a bill for anti-discrimination in 1965. Cal Rampton wanted me to help implement that bill in the Industrial Commission. This might be a bit of interest for you, it was for me. There was a man that was going to get so much money and I was to go in with so much lower than he. We were both doing the same work, and I resented it. While I was up in Washington, Cal's office had put in that I had resigned from the legislature. The report said that I was going to be in the anti-discrimination (committee) in the Industrial Commission. I had not resigned. One of his aides had put this in thinking that because the Governor had asked me to do this that I would do it. I came back from Washington and I read this in the paper, so I went down and met with Governor Rampton and I said that I was not going to work for that type of salary. I said that it has always been my belief that for the same work, the same position, I should be paid exactly the same as any man. What's the difference? I need it as badly as he does. We jangled a little bit but it came out. I said, "I'm not going to resign from the legislature." "You are going to make kind of a sap out of me, Elizabeth," he said. We were such good friends. He was the President of the Young Democrats and I was his Vice President. 11 I said, "I can't help it. You had no business to let one of those men tell people that I was resigning. I will not resign unless I get the same as the other people." I went up to the Industrial Commission, and the Commissioner said that I couldn't expect that. I said that I expected it and I'd get it or I wouldn't work. I'd just stay in the legislature. Then he said that he would go talk to Cal about it. He went and talked to the Governor and he came back and said things to appease me. I said, "No way, no way. I will not resign. They can retract that I resigned because I will stay in the legislature." I wasn't being belligerent, but I've always believed in equal work for equal wages for men and women. That's how it should be to this very day. We put in a bill for anti-discrimination. If the people of Utah would to this day get ahold of that bill, the anti-discrimination bill, we wouldn't need any other bill that says "equal wages for equal work", and yet they were trying to push me into a lesser salary, but X got the full salary. I went to work for the Industrial Commission and I worked there for seven years. Then my husband retired from the railroad, and he wanted me to retire. I retired at that time, from that position. Every justice of the Supreme Court and all the people from the building came, and I had a beautiful book that they all signed. They gave me some beautiful beads, hand-painted beads, and some earrings. The joy was the notes that they put in the book. Then I thought, "What will I do now?" I had worked for the party and I worked for Ted Moss. I was Ted Moss’ representative in these ten northern counties for a period of about four years. I enjoyed that. Ted and Phyllis Moss are wonderful people. 12 I thought that I would like to be national committeewoman, all my life I wanted to be national committeewoman, but I never could afford it. That position does not pay a salary. You pay your own expenses. Your friends could help you or something of this type, but there is no salary. I decided to run for it, though. There were two ladies that were running also. One was from Salt Lake, and one from Davis County. I was really fortunate. I covered the 29 counties telling them that I wanted to be national committee- woman. Of course, lots of them had known me from the legislature, and many of them knew me from being on the central committee of the state for 27 years. I told them that it had been my ambition all of my life to be national committeewoman. I went into the convention, and I received more votes than both of the ladies put together. I was national committeewoman for four years. A month ago, I ran for my second term. There was a lady from Salt Lake who is very well-to-do, drives a Mercedes-Benz, has a chauffeur, and all this type of thing and had hired some people to help her. I never hired anyone. My friends helped to put me over. Cal Rampton came up. I had talked to him in Utah County, and told him that I would like him to second my nomination. He called me up and asked if I still wanted him, and I said that I did. He came up and when he went up on the stand to nominate me, they played "Happy Days Are Here Again". In 1946 I was with Cal as his Vice Chairlady. Then in 1980 he nominated me for national committeewoman. Ernie Dean, who had opposed Cal sixteen years before, seconded the nomination. My granddaughter, Kelly Vance, seconded my nomination. It was Kelly's first trip to a convention, and I was so thrilled. She is a beautiful girl and she did a beautiful job. 13 I had five different people, Vic Schubach and Nick Vablos and a little girl from Brigham City. It was a hard-fought election. I went to 23 counties again. My friends stayed with me throughout the state. I was elected over the two women who were running against me from Davis and from Salt Lake. I hoped to make peace now in the Democratic Party, and to do the things that would bring the party back where it should be. I wish that they would get back to the idea. You know, they say that if you save a dress long enough, it comes back in style. Well, we waited a long time, now, for the idea to come back in style that is, to go out into these districts and go get every Democrat registered, every Democrat, no matter where they are, and then see that they get out and vote. Getting back to the idea of going out and having these three people, the polls, and doing this again, I think that we could win. Times have changed. Will Rogers recalled in his memoirs that Franklin Roosevelt called him in 1928 and asked, "Shall I run?" Will Rogers said, "No, not yet. People are not hungry enough." In 1932, Will Rogers had another telephone call from Franklin Roosevelt, and he said, "Now is your time to run. The people are hungry. " Well, everyone needed positions, as I said before, such as myself at that time, and the people were willing to work. Now I think that the Democratic Party has been so fortunate in having so many people employed that they don't care too much about politics. They just take it for granted. I think that there is no truer saying in the whole world that the older people deserve everything that we get because we are the ones that paved the road for these people who 14 are now reaping the benefits. That's the same thing in politics, there is no question about it. I walked as I said, from 36th Street to North Street including west Ogden and west to Washington to get just one job for $.75 an hour. The people don't have to do that anymore. If they don't get so much an hour, they don't work. They are very least interested in doing anything, any ground work for politics. I think one of the great campaigners of our time is a fellow by the name of Douglas Hunt. He is a County Commissioner here, and he goes from house to house. He's doing that throughout the state. He's running for Lieutenant Governor. I am just saying that that is the kind of campaigning we need throughout the state. I was elected seven times, this will be my ninth national convention, including Young Democrats. I was elected the highest vote-getter of anyone in the state to be a delegate to the National Convention. That isn't bragging, I'm just proud of it. After all these years, they still love me and I love them. I was elected the highest vote-getter of anyone in the state of Utah to be a national delegate. I'm going to the national convention next Saturday. I have been to eight before. Conventions are different than they ever were before. People are just taking things too much for granted. I think that we have got to get down to the basics of what we stand for. Stand firm and solid. There are a couple of things that we should mention. Hubert Humphrey was one of my ideal people. He and I were friends. When he was going to be nominated for President, he called and told me that he was going to announce it. Harriet Campbell and I went to Washington to hear the announcement. 15 Lyndon Johnson and Ladybird were friends of mine. I have pictures of both of them in my wallet. Ladybird wrote on her picture: "from one good Democrat to another". Once in Atlantic City, she left a note, I have it in my scrapbook here, for me to call her and we met at the convention again. One time when I was working at Thiokol, I asked Lyndon Johnson for a favor unbeknownst to anyone, and the Thiokol people were dumbfounded when he called and wanted to know what he could do to help them. I just feel that I have been so fortunate and wonderfully blessed to have health and strength to do the things that I have done, and I hope to continue on in this next four-year period that I have been elected to, to do the things that will make the Democratic Party a better functioning party and do the things we need to so that we can elect a President, whoever is chosen at the national convention. With those few words of thankfulness for all my blessings, I'll sign off. PB: This concludes the interview with Elizabeth Vance. Thank you, Elizabeth, for spending this time with me. 16