Oral History Program Ruth Simmons Interviewed by Liz Merrill 03 March 1998 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Ruth Simmons Interviewed by Liz Merrill 03 March 1998 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in University Archives. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The Weber State College/University Student Projects have been created by students working with several different professors on the Weber State campus. The topics are varied and based on the student's interest or task for a specific assignment. These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Simmons, Ruth, an oral history by Liz Merrill, 03 March 1998, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Introduction When this project was first assigned, I knew instantly who I wanted to interview, a lady named Ruthie. Ruthie, or Sister Simmons as I have known her in church, is a soft-spoken, sweet- natured southern belle with hair the color of ripe red apples. She has a sense of grace, beauty and dignity about her that draws people in like a magnet. Her quiet laugh and soft words of wisdom have been inspiring to all who have taken the time and effort to listen. I was interested in finding out more about her, where and when she was born, what she has done and continues to do in life. This project helped me discover some of the past, present and future plans behind Ruth Simmons. The interview was conducted on March 3rd, 1998 in the home of Richard and Ruth Simmons in Layton, Utah. I was invited to come over at 5:30 and, after the interview, stay for dinner. While I enjoyed dinner with Ruth, Richard and their son, Ruth and I were the only ones present during the interview. I sensed when I first pulled out the tape recorder and release statement that Ruthie had not expected this interview to be quite so technical. The tape recorder was especially intimidating to her, she said, but I did my best to calm her fears and assure her that all she needed to do was be herself and answer my questions honestly. After settling ourselves on two soft couches so that we were diagonally facing each other, I turned on the recorder and began the interview. Ruthie, although more than willing to answer, took few minutes to warm up to the tape recorder and my probing questions. But, as is apparent on the tape and transcript, Ruth was soon talking up a storm. I felt the interview went very well, apart from her quiet voice being recorded completely 1 audibly on the tape (I was afraid her soft voice would not be recorded well on the tape, but overall it was satisfactory). I learned many things about Ruthie during the interview, things I had not suspected. For instance, I have always viewed her as being raised in the religion we both belong to. I was somewhat surprised to find that she was a convert to our church, that she wasn't baptized into our religion until age 27, after she was married and had given birth to both her children. I also found out that Ruth had a very trying relationship with her brother while they were growing up. Before this interview, I had never seen her as having any kind of confrontations with anyone, especially those in her own family. Although she was very vague about the problems between her brother and her, Ruth confided in me that one of the most difficult things she has ever done has been to forgive her brother for his cruelty to her. The last thing that surprised me about Ruthie was her strength as an individual. Nearly every time I've seen Ruth, she's been next to her husband. That is not a bad thing, necessarily, but leads one to believe that she relies on him, that she doesn't feel like a complete person without being next to him. What I found while interviewing Ruth is that, while she is reliant on her husband in many ways, she is still an individual. She feels her own strengths, her own weaknesses, her own personal connection with God. She has her own uniqueness and feels her worth as a separate individual, something I was pleased to find and something I admire very much. This oral history interview, besides being fun to do, taught me a lot about the life of a woman who has lived long and done much. Ruthie now means more to me than just a nice older lady that goes to my church. She has a history, a past, that has 2 helped make her who she is today. Her experiences have taught her much, and now she has taught me. 3 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Ruth Simmons. The interview was conducted on March 3, 1998, by Liz Merrill, in the home of the interviewee. Mrs. Simmons describes a few of her personal experiences and memories throughout her life. LM: This is Liz Merrill interviewing Ruthie Simmons. Ruth Simmons. OK, I wasn't sure if Ruthie was your nickname or not. RS: Yeah, it's kind of just a little nickname. LM: Oh. Is that your full name or do you have a middle name? RS: I'm also Elizabeth. LM: So it's Ruth... RS: Elizabeth. LM: Where were you born? RS: In Greenville, South Carolina. LM: In South Carolina? And when was that? What year? RS: 1940. LM: 1940. Did you have a nickname while you were growing up? Like besides Ruthie? RS: Rooster. LM: Rooster? (Laugh) Why did they call you Rooster? RS: I don't know. My brother, brother-in-law always called me that. 4 LM: How Cute. RS: He still calls me that! (Laugh) LM: How many, I don't know how many are in your family. How many brothers and sisters do you have? RS: I have two sisters and a brother, and I'm the baby. Hmmm (giggle). LM: You’re the baby? Hee hee (giggle). Do they all live in Utah? RS: They're all in South Carolina. LM: All? Oh wow. RS: All my family are there. LM: What made you decide to move here? Now, you moved here from South Carolina, is that right? RS: No, uh, I, met my husband there. He was in the air force and when he, uh, came out of the air force we moved to Louisiana and so lived there for 24 years or so. LM: Wow. RS: In between there, which... I can't remember the exact year, we moved to Oregon, lived there for a couple of years. And, uh, but we moved here from Louisiana. LM: Oh, I didn't know you'd moved around so much. RS: We've been here 7 years now. LM: Do you like this, uh, how does Utah rank with other places you've lived? Do you like Utah? I mean... 5 RS: Oh, very much. Oh yes. LM: Oh, good. Do you kinda... RS: Love the climate, other than the winters get long. LM: The winters are long and cold. RS: Yeah, but I love the different seasons because each one you're just anxiously awaiting. And I like that. LM: Now, what do you miss about South Carolina? I mean, you were there for so many years. RS: Oh... well, (pause) I don't really miss it that much. I miss Louisiana. I was there much longer. I know the people there. Um, we left a lot of our family, lots of friends. Um, I love the food. LM: Do they do a lot of Cajun things in Louisiana? RS: They do, they do. And it's absolutely wonderful. And I love the fun dances we used to have at the church (laugh). We used to always have fun parties at the church. We don't have as many here. And I miss that. We was always having a dinner and we gotta have a party, we gotta have fun. I miss that. Here we only have, like, the Gold and Green ball... and the... Harvest in the fall, but, whereas we would have them more often. More unity I guess. LM: Like more social kind of gatherings? RS: Yeah, yes. I think we had more of that there because the church is smaller. So therefore, you're... Of course, we're close-knit here so how can I say, uh, but somehow 6 there it's, uh, we got together more, even more than we do her. As close as we are here, it was closer there. LM: Wow, huh. I think I understand what you're saying because in Arizona, I can tell a difference between, like, the, um, closeness of the community, of the church in there as opposed to here. I guess, I don't know, I guess since there are fewer members and since that's such a central part of your life, it's like you all have to rely on each other so much. RS: You rely on each other, and, well, we think of it as the missionary field in that you're out there and you're all alone, so you cling to each other. LM: Oh, that's really cool. Um, do you remember your grandparents and great grandparents that well? RS: Well, I remember my Grandmother, um, uh, my... my father's mother. She used to come and visit quite often. When she'd come, we'd better have on our, um, working gloves! (Hah hah) because she was one... everything had to be clean. If this wasn't the way she wanted it then, gee, she had to make it different. But that was one thing I remember. She loved to bake, she loved to have everything just right, looking nice, you know? I guess she didn't think things looked as nice as they should! (Laugh) So... LM: She just took to work? RS: Yeah. She just kind of took over. But, it was kind of...sad sometimes because if we wasn't in a working mood, we wasn't too excited she was coming. But, um, she was fine. The fun thing I remember about her is that she loved to walk and she would walk to our house most of the time. Um, she... when she moved out of state, she would travel 7 by train to visit us. She would tell us about all the young, handsome men that she had met on the train... LM: (Laugh). RS: I always do remember that about her. I remember one day I went by to see her and she had been knitting all day this beautiful red scarf, and I told her how pretty is was and she gave it to me and I still have it to this day. That's the only thing I have of my grandmothers. I wish I'd had some wonderful words of wisdom that she told me. Um, but if she did I don't remember. LM: Yeah. RS: Because I was so small when she died, I was still very young. I wished I had... I would treasure words of wisdom, and I think that, that's what we need to do as grandparents. And being a grandparent myself is to tell my grandparents, my grandchildren rather, um, stories and, and things that have happened in our lives that have blessed our lives are the trials and things we've been through, um, the happy times as well. And we need to share those with them because if we don't then they'll, I'm sure they're going to be like where, like I said I was so young but yet, I don't have that and I miss that. I wished I could. So I think stories are so important. Um, just doing things with them, things that they can... that will be meaningful. And that they can keep close to their love for the rest of their lives and share with their children. We just finished this that's called the Hiding Place. And, um, it is just a wonderful book. I highly recommend it to anyone... it would give anyone strength and hope that they can overcome anything, that everything happens for a reason and that we should be grateful for all things. 8 LM: Do you remember any times growing up when you had, like, major trials and things like, um, well I don't know. I mean, obviously you were born well after the depression, but do you remember times of hunger or just struggling or things like that? RS: Hmm... Well (pause), that's very personal, but, um, (pause) well, I had struggles with my... I grew up... my two sisters were quite a bit older than me, so um, I mostly was with my brother because he was next to me. He wasn't very kind to me, so that was a very hard thing to go through. And, um, so that would be the trial of my life, during my childhood, was my brother. So I, you know, that's been something that I've had to overcome through the years, is to be able to forgive him and I have been able to do that. And that's a great accomplishment. But for many years I didn't forgive him. So, um, that was... it was an unhappy time. It really was. LM: Throughout your childhood, then? RS: Well, through most of it, most of my childhood, yeah. And, uh, my next to the oldest sister is the one who kinda just took me under her wing and took me to be with her when she got married and I was with her so much. Um, they took me everywhere they went and I done fun things with them and uh, so, that was my relief, because I wasn't very happy when I was home because my brother was there. And, it was funny because my mother had the three girls and my brother and it was like she always favored him. Anything that, he could get by with anything and it was just like I was kind of by myself. I was all alone. So, when my older sister married and went away, well then there I was... I just felt terribly lost, so that was, that was a trying thing because I missed her. But later she did (pause) she rescued me and took me with her and they would come and get me for those weekends and I was with them and, uh, it was, uh, that was good. But had it 9 not been for her, I don't know if I would have survived my childhood. I've had a lot of (pause) well, bitterness inside. My father was a good man, he was a wonderful man. My mother was very Christ-like and a wonderful woman. But my father was very strict and very hard, and, um, so that was hard for me. And so I've had a lot to... to overcome, becoming an adult, to be able to forgive and let go and go on. And (pause) that's what you have to do. You cannot look back and blame anything that's happened in your life. I would say, if something was happening to me, I would say, I felt terrible. I would blame my childbirth, but you can't do that, you just can't. Even though it will always be a part of you, you have to forgive. Just like that story I told you, that Hidden Room, the girl in there that was so spiritual. Betsy, one of his sisters that was in the concentration camp. When the guards would beat him, beat the Jews, (by the way, that's why they were in the concentration camp; they lived in Holland and they were Jewish) when the guards were beating the Jews Betsy would say to her sister, "let’s pray for the guards, because the guards are the ones that have this to live with this for the rest of their lives. They're the ones who are going to have to ask for forgiveness and live with this for the rest of their lives." With the one who is going through that pain, we would probably pray for the one that's being beat. We wouldn't think about praying for the person that's punishing them. LM: How is your relationship now with your brother? RS: Good. LM: Is it pretty good? RS: Yeah, it’s pretty good. I, um, it's really, I don't think we have time to talk about all of this, but, you know, when I received my forgiveness was when I went through Nauvoo. We 10 left there and we went to Nauvoo and from there we traveled all the way to South Carolina by car. We decided we would go through Nauvoo. I was not prepared for what was going to happen to me, but it’s just an experience I'll never forget. Um, you could feel the spirit of these people and we stayed on the street where the Saints lined up and started crossing the Mississippi and crossing the plains. Just reviewing his life, Joseph Smith's life, and thinking about what he went through and what these people done to him there, I thought, how can I not forgive my brother? I hadn't at that time. I didn't want to see him when I went home. I didn't want to talk to him. And I was able to be able to greet him in a different way and a different feeling because it just changed me. It changed my heart and softened my heart. I've never been completely the same since then. And I think that, um, every so often it would be wonderful to have a couple of days and be able to experience and feel what I felt there. And anybody that has to be able to overcome what I did, being able to forgive and forget, go on, it would be a good place to go. I'm sure people receive these gifts in different ways, but that's how I received mine. LM: That is amazing that you've been able to do that. That's really cool. RS: It was a good experience. A very, very good experience. LM: Is there anybody in your life that you would consider your soul mate? Like, have you ever had any, it might be even more than one person, but has there been people in your life that you've been so connected to that you would call them your soul mate? RS: Well, my dear husband is truly my soul mate. I could tell him anything. He is my friend, my sweetheart. He's everything, he's just...everything. He is the greatest friend and greatest soul mate. I just lost a friend one week before Christmas. That was truly a soul mate. I could've shared anything with her. We were so connected, and um, she was the 11 person that, she always put herself last and she was always doing other things for people. And it’s funny how we never realize how special someone is until they're gone. I mean, I knew she was wonderful and I knew she was spiritual, I knew how much she meant to me to a certain extent, but I never knew how much until she was gone. I think that to have a friend like her is very rare and I think there are few people in this life that experience that, you know, because someone that's there for you no matter what, and she was. But I've had a lot of good friends. It’s so funny that right now I can't even think because all I can think about is my friend that I lost. I just had so many close friends. I have close friends here, now, also, but it’s funny, there are friends that you can tell anything too and you can bear your complete heart, and there's others friends that you're very close to yet you cannot bear your heart to them. Uh, that's soul mate that you spoke of, I think that a...really a soul mate, you don't have many of them. LM: No, no. That's really neat though that you've experienced that. RS: But I've had so many dear close friends. I really have, and I never would let my friends go and try to keep up with them, maybe as much as I should. I know that we never keep in touch the way we want to because we get so busy, but I think it’s important and I think we should. There is one dear friend that I've completely lost track of and I'm really trying to look up through the church records. She was another dear soul mate. Her name was Annie T—. And this friend that I just spoke of that was killed, her name was Tawnie Dixie Olson, who lived in Orem. LM: How long did you know, um, well, both of them? The one that you said you were going to try and get in contact with, is she an old school friend? 12 RS: No, actually, I met her, um, we had been in the church just a few years when I met her and they were new members also, converts to the church. And, so, that's how we became close friends is because we were baptized pretty close to the same time. LM: I didn't know you were a convert to the LDS church. When did that happen? RS: Oh, that happened in 1967. LM: In 1967, so you were 27 then? RS: uh huh. LM: And you and Rich were already married? RS: Yes. LM: Did you have all of your children then? RS: We had Allen our son, yes, and Tina was born later. LM: Wow, that's really neat. So that must've changed your life drastically. RS: Yes. LM: Did you ever go to any kind of schooling besides High School? RS: No. LM: So you just graduated from High School? RS: Rick and I married very young. He was in the air force, and he just kinda swept me away! (Laugh). LM: Neat! Did you win any kind of awards or anything like that in High School? You went to High School in South Carolina, right? 13 RS: Yes, and I didn't. LM: Neither did I. (Laugh). RS: I was very shy. And like I said, my childhood was not the happiest childhood. It's like my life now and my childhood, it’s just like very different. LM: Do you think you are a stronger person now? RS: Definitely. Yes. LM: That's great. Um, what are some of the very, like, experiences that you'll never forget? I know that you have so many, but like I know for instance that you've been extras on Touched by An Angel, and things like that. Do you have any of those kind of experiences that you remember just off the top of your head? RS: You mean being on the show? LM: Being on that or any other kind of out of the ordinary things that you remember doing or have done. RS: Well it was really neat to work on Touched by An Angel because Tawnie, my friend who was killed, we were just able to work together on that and it was really neat, meeting a lot of interesting people. And the type of show that it is was a wonderful experience because, of course, the little part that we played we just have… and to be able to see it later and see them put all of those excitements together is amazing. They have to take after take. They have to have it just perfect. It was really fun. LM: Do you feel that at your age and your station in life that there is still just so much to do and that you're almost, um, I don't want to say just beginning, but that there are still so 14 many things that you still want to do, or do you feel like you've accomplished just a great deal in your life? I'm sorry, I'm not wording that very well. RS: Oh yes, there is definitely a lot more to do. And lots more that I want to experience, so very, very much. I'd like to travel. Actually I've never left the United States. LM: Really? RS: Well, I went to Hawaii, but that's still in the states. I would really like to travel. There's just so many things. There's so much genealogy work that I need to do and, um, things with our grandchildren, enjoying them. Just being together with my husband and I. We are always enjoying things together no matter what we're doing, we're enjoying being together. There's still a lot of living to do. And it’s the exciting part, don't you think? LM: Oh, I do. I totally agree. RS: We have seen so much that has come to pass in our lives. So much. LM: There is. RS: I mean, I remember a time before there was television, before there was plastic, before there was penicillin. LM: I know, there's countless things. The computer age... RS: Computer age! Oh my goodness, you can just go on and on. LM: And it happens faster and faster. RS: We are really, really in a marvelous time and even though it can be difficult at times, you can make your own little heaven and you can be...life can be beautiful, and it is. It can 15 be wonderful, it's just what you, what you make of it. If you make up your mind to be happy, you can be happy. LM: Thank you! 16