Oral History Program Mrs. Elizabeth Hales Joyce Slye 26 June 1972 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Mrs. Elizabeth Hales Interviewed by Joyce Slye 26 June 1972 Copyright © 2012 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. 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It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Hales, Elizabeth, an oral history by Joyce Slye, 26 June 1972, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Mrs. Elizabeth Hales. The interview was conducted on June 26, 1972, by Joyce Slye, in Spanish Fork, Utah. Hales discusses the Icelandic culture she experienced while growing up in Spanish Fork as a young girl. JS: Mrs. Hales, you mentioned that you knew some of the people who came to Spanish Fork in the early years and you were talking about your parents. Maybe you could tell me about some of the memories you have of these people and your parents. EH: I remember very distinctly of my mother talking about them. She had lived below the hill and all, nearly all the Icelanders that came to this country, some for Mormonism and others just to come to a new world, lived just around her. My mother and father were married in the year 1882, March, and she said their home was built by them or by my father before they were married and when she got up one morning and raised her window blind she looked out and saw all of these dug-outs, and a little pipe coming out of them. Some of them didn't even have a window in them. I was in several of them. She said she was just fascinated because the smoke was coming out of all of these little old rounded holes in the ground. We used to be with them a lot because we went to school with their kids. But their children were really born mostly in this country. Across the street from our home was their chapel. It was a poorly built chapel, of lumber. But they used to go there because so many of them didn't ever learn the language. They would go there and have their meetings. They would have it from about 15 minutes after 12 until about 15 minutes to two. And then we would see them go in a body, all of them 1 stately and in their best Sunday clothes, go down to our church at 2:00, when we had services at 2:00. My father was bishop at the time and he used to try to help them very much. I was in their homes many times because we had chickens but we got out of eggs every so often and so I would go up. Some of the older people there were very honest, they were very thrifty, very proud, dependable, friendly. This old lady I used to go see if I could buy some eggs, one day I went and she could only give me three and so she wouldn't take any money until she got the rest of the dozen for me, you know, and she told me to come back the next day end she thought she would have them, that she had sold some. She was a very sweet old thing and as I used to do a lot of singing she asked me to sing at her funeral when she died. She talked very brokenly, you know. Many of them I promised to sing to their funerals but when we went to Washington D.C.in 1927 they were still alive and when I would get the press it would make me really very sad to hear of their death and I wasn't home here to do it. But Mr. Hales was studying law at the time. I've been in their homes and they were so thrifty they didn't have very much to eat and one or two of the dug-outs where they lived, it was just one big room. They had their bed in there and everything, everything in this one big room. I don't know how they stood it but they did and they were friendly and they were happy. They were so glad to be in this country, although they had left a good place, so they said. Many of them were Mormons, and they went to our church and their children went to our church. Then Brother Renolfson was the Lutheran minister and some went to his and never did join the Mormon Church. Some went to Reverend Lee's home or church and he was a Presbyterian. The Jameson’s went to Reverend Lee's home, I don't mean his home, his church. It was right across the street from his home. Ellen Jameson, I 2 think we could easily say that she was the very best singer that the Icelandic people ever produced. She is buried here in Spanish Fork. Her sister Rose was a good pianist and they used to sing to funerals and go places. Ellen taught school here in Spanish Fork and then after she taught school for a while, when they'd want her to sing to a funeral they would go and get her, provide an automobile to go get her and take her to the chapel where she was to sing and they'd take her home. Sometimes I used to be a little bit annoyed because I'd sing at the same funeral and I had three children and they'd never offer to take me. I sang for years in Spanish Fork to so many of them that died and so many of them that I didn't even know. As I said they were very good people. A block from our home lived a Mrs. Johnson and she was a very good woman. She was very thrifty and she had a real knack for making clothes and she used to make our clothes a great deal. Mother sewed for my older sisters but when we came along she wasn't too well. She had diabetes and so Mrs. Johnson did our sewing. She was called Spoolgate Johnson because her husband took the spools that she made, that she used the thread from and made her beautiful gate, it was really attractive and people would go by there to see the spool gate you know. So we knew her as Mrs. Spoolgate Johnson. She had two daughters, Sarah and Martha, and they established a millenary school in our town. They were really the very best dressed girls in the town and when they would pass our home, they lived about a block from our farthest corner of the house, and they'd always pass, and they were really the best dressed girls I've ever seen. One had red hair and the other one black and they were beautiful. So they ran this millenary shop for some time and then Sarah got married and Martha went to Washington D.C. I saw her when we were in Washington D.C., she was a lively woman. 3 As a whole I think all of the Icelandic people that I knew were thrifty, honest, intelligent and smart and dependable, friendly and really quite proud. We had two of the Icelandic Mormon boys live with us because their father couldn't afford to come with them when he sent them. So Chris Inerson and Ollie Inerson lived with us and then later his father came, their mother was dead. They built a little home on the top of the sand hill over here. Chris continues to work for my father very dependably, a very hard worker. He was a wonderful fellow, we liked him very much. Then there was the Enjolful Erickson family; that was the father's name. The mother's name was Jerthurdur. They had a family of four children. I went to school with Sarah. Mary was older and she was really a beautiful seamstress too. She made my first baby’s dress that she was blessed in. They used to come to our home and if they needed anything - I can see them now. Mother taught them how to make bread with yeast. We always had a start of yeast in our warming oven and they would come and borrow a cup full of yeast and then go home and make a start themselves. We grew the yeast plant too, so that it was no hardship for my mother. Then they would come down and ask her to teach them to make pie like she could do, and watch her make it. The women that wanted it, wanted to be good Americans and they wanted to know more of what was going on in our city and act like the rest of them. They didn’t want to be peculiar people they wanted to be one of us. They were. They were lively people and they worked hard. Their children were really wonderful. Even the ones that did not join the Mormon Church. A.V. Jameson for instance, Uncle, he was a hunchback and he couldn't do very hard work. In those days we had two saloons in Spanish Fork and he'd go down end clean the saloons. Then he got so he drank. He'd come home, go pass our place and be really reeling, he couldn't 4 walk straight. But he could play music, he could fix any kind of organ and he did. Many times it was really interesting because he would give up his time and play for our Primary dances. After we built our new chapel, we kept the old one, a lumber one, and had the Primary in there. He would come and play his accordion. He could play most anything. He could play organs, accordions, violins, and he didn't get it after he came here, he got that before he came. I don't know how old A.V. was but he was really one of the Icelandic characters of our town, for years and years. When he was all right he would do anything for anybody. He'd come fix the old fashioned organs and maybe there would be just a peddle that would need something done to it. A.V. was always the "fixer-upper" I guess you could call him, in our town. His brother was very… His brother was very stiff and he had two daughters and two sons. Ellen Jameson was one of his daughters and she was really one of the nicest girls I have ever known, a lovely singer, a good school teacher. Rose, her younger sister taught school here too. They were taken right into the town. Not too long ago Bishop Beckstrom came to our house and said "Would you please give us a donation for Ellen Jameson? She did so much for Spanish Fork and she doesn't have a headstone for her grave.” I think that everybody that was asked contributed and she did get a beautiful headstone, long after she died because of the work that she did and because she was such a lovely girl. Ellen never married and she stayed in Spanish Fork. We all loved her. I think there are several things that could be said about the Icelandic people. Just as soon as they could afford to build a home, they built a home and the dug-outs were used as cellars. Some of the dug-outs, I think, were a little dampish even on the bench and some of the older women soon contracted T.B. They weren't very well. The one I remember the best was the one 5 close by the cemetery. It was the last one about that I can remember being a dug-out and they had it fixed up very nicely. In the older dug-outs they had no boards for flooring or anything. It was just the ground and then they'd throw some rugs on it, and there they slept and ate and cooked, did all of their work. Before they built a house, the ones that lived close by us built chicken coops and a pen for cattle and they had a cow. They had these chickens and they sold eggs. They'd never eat them as long as they could sell them, they'd just do without. They were so really thrifty. JS: They would build those things before they even had a house? EH: They built those things so they could get along and have a cow or chickens and things and they farmed, a lot of them farmed. Some of them, I don't know their last name. All I know is I remember Mr. Foosie, we called him, and his wife. They had no children but they were lovely people. We'd go up there to buy fruit sometimes after the fruit trees got grown. It was really a pleasant observation to realize that these women would put on their best and always be nice to you. I don't want to say this but I remember one day I went to an older Icelandic lady’s home to get some eggs and she had coffee. They always had coffee on the stove. The coffee pot was on the stove from morning till night. She begged me to have coffee with her, and while we didn't have it in our house, I didn't know what to say so I took the coffee. I drank that cup of coffee and it was so strong I thought it would just kill me. When I went home I didn't dare tell my mother or father that I had drunk it because we didn't drink coffee in our home. Dad was the bishop. But this showed they wanted to be kind and they wanted friends and they would give you anything they had to be your friend. There were also, as I said, very brilliant people. A lot of them were, some of them weren't but most of them that were young enough to 6 learn the language and be thrifty were really very smart. A lot of their kids were smart. But I don't think that all of them were, I think that the Icelandic people were just like the rest of us. We have good and bad among all of us you know. They had one or two wild kids as we say. I never did know of any of them that committed a crime. I don't remember that any of them ever committed a crime in this town while they were here and while I was here. To this day I have a lot of friends among them, Sarah Erickson Warner first and L. Bearnson. Now her father was from Iceland but her mother was from Denmark. After they came here, the next generation married into the Americans, a great many of them. A Liefson married into the Bradford’s. Geslison’s stayed at first within their own group but then later on they married. President Geslison was an Icelandic person and he married a girl from Salt Lake. Many of them married them and they have really done well. President Geslison among them was our Stake President and he’s a teacher in the seminary, I think he's the principal of it. He really did very well. I think as a whole the whole town loves President Geslison very much after what he has done and he's such a kind man. I've known his mother and father and his grandmother and grandfather up on the hill. They were really lovely people. So as a whole I think that the Icelandic people are fine, good and they were good looking a lot of them very good looking. I sometimes used to think that we thought they were dumb because they didn't know the American ways and they didn't know our English language. They soon learned and the second generation you would never know, but what they were an American all the way through. So I think that the Icelandic people contributed a great deal to our city. They were in politics later on, a lot of them. They strived to become what they felt, I think, that people of Spanish Fork and America wanted them to be. They didn't stay 7 within their shells. The only ones that did were the real old women that just couldn't seem to get the language and nobody could teach them anyway. Their husbands were smarter at doing that I think. But with the needle and thrift and everything like that they were very good. JS: Did the Icelander come that much later than the Danish or Scotch? EH: Well the Icelanders were there, I don't know just when they did come, but they came before 1882 and had these dug-outs built upon the East Bench. I don't think that they ever settled in any other place but one or two in the fourth ward. They were all upon the bench and whether they chose the bench land for their houses, they all sort of congregated together. Whether they thought the bench was dryer so they could do it I don't know, but they all did build their homes upon the East Bench. The floors of their dug-outs were just sprinkled with water you know until there was no dust in the place. It was a very nice place to go to. One or two of them had windows in this oval top and they had a window in that. Then in the winter they would cover it over you know because we had deep snow. So it used to be dark. You'd go down in there and it would really be dark. And of course they had no cement steps you know. So as I said they didn't stay too long in the dug-outs. Just as soon as they could get enough money ahead they built them quite a nice home. And many of them are standing up on the Bench now. You can go drive up there and find nice places. They surely took care of them, very nice you know. I even learned to say a few Icelandic words and I was surprised when I said to Vic, "Vic, do I remember this right?" He said, "Well what was it?" And I said, "Well our neighbor right next to the church was an Icelandic woman and she would yell – “Jonee kondu hjerna og latu kol i ofn!” He said, "Good heavens yes." 8 He said, "That means come on home and put some coal on the stove!” I really laughed at that because I hadn't thought about it for such a long time. Some of the kids were mischievous in school and some weren't. They’re just like the Americans. JS: Did they have any trouble assimilating themselves when they first came? I understand the Icelanders and the Danish were kind of at odds. EH: Well they weren't later. Some of the Icelanders married Danish people, Danish women that came over from there. So they didn't go down. . . Now 4th Ward was known as Danish ward and that's were nearly all the Danish people lived. 1st Ward was Icelander ward. My mother was Welsh and my father was Norwegian and his brothers and sisters all lived up in that part of the country. We had no trouble with them. I don't think they had much trouble with anybody. One or two of them were musically inclined. Lofter Johnson played in the band in our town as well as John K. Johnson and quite a few of the next generation that came. Lofter is down in California, now. I met him on Decoration Day, he was decorating the graves, came clear from California. They think a lot of their people. I know Vic has been back to Iceland a couple of times, so he really wanted to get his genealogy straightened out. I don't know whether he ever did or not because it's not easy to go from one language to another and try to understand them you know. I don't think he thoroughly does yet. Vic's mother and father lived up on the hill too. In fact they just built all around our home up there. It was kind of nice. I remember going to the Johnson home long after the others had been here for years. I was in the sixth grade at the school here and I felt sorry for her. Some of the kids seemed to shun Sophia. So I, to make up for it, went up to her home to play with her after school. The next day I was telling two of the girls that were older than I, we were in 9 a group that went together. They said, "Oh, did you tell your mother that?" And I said, "Tell her what?” And they said, "That you were playing at Sophia's home that you played with old dresses and old hats?" I said, "No I didn't. I never thought about it. I just told her I went to Sophia’s." And they said, "Oh she's got lice." They were so poor. They came over on steerage. Her white, golden hair, in little time braids all around her head were just covered. They said, "You stand behind her and we'll show you and we'll point it out." So I got head lice. Boy, I lived out in the tent for quite a while. I don't think they could help that, they were so poor that they came in the cheapest way that they could come across the ocean. And they were a long time coming because the sailing wasn’t very fast at that time. She was a nice girl too, but I didn't tell her that she had lice. But my mother. Oh, I remember that I slept out in a tent on the lawn for a long time. She used a fine comb and kerosene. That's what they'd put on your hair you know. She'd just load it, and that would kill the nits on your hair. JS: Did you ever get rid of it? EH: Oh sure, yes. You get rid of it, in a hurry. My mother wouldn't stand for that. She was so fussy. JS: Do you remember any types of recreation or anything that you engaged in? EH: Yes. We used to play Olevio at nighttime. I don't think I've ever heard of it since. We would go out in the street, and of course there weren’t any automobiles then, and we would bat the ball and then chase it and whichever side caught it then the other would try to cart it away from them. So we really had quite a time. Olevio and hide-and-seek. We'd go out in the evening and hide behind trees and things like that. We didn't have 10 very much to go by. I remember when my older sister got the first bicycle, everybody came from all over to find out about it and to ride it, to see if they could ride it a half a block. We happened to have at that time a mill, a windmill. These Icelandic people that lived close around would come get their water from our house, because when the windmill blew it would pump out, and pump the water into the house. They didn't know what sanitary conditions were so far as bathing in their homes, you see they couldn't do it in these dug-outs. I remember the wrinkles in some of these old ladies faces and the cracks seemed to be so filled with dirt at times. And yet they were such good people, but they just didn't know what anything was like that. When my mother died in 1915 they came and brought goodies that they made and they came in a group. I can see them now. They called my mother the angel of mercy because she laid out so many of them. My dad, of course, being the bishop at that time, he really wanted us to treat them right and learn to love them and we did. So when they all came they wanted to know if they could kiss her, because they loved her and as I said before they called her the angel of mercy. And my mother was. I had seen her many nights go with buckets, little syrup buckets of milk to some of them that were poor and didn't have a cow or something. It would be enough to last them a day probably, the way they would use it. Then later on, my father made a board and had a string fastened to two holes in each end and then had these cupped screws go in this. Then mother would go with her cape and go up to these different Icelandic women that lived on the bench that were poor and take them something to eat. Maybe a loaf of bread and maybe a half because she'd go to more than five of them at a night while we kids would do the dishes. I think they were kind to everybody and we tried to be kind back. I think the Mormons in this community really 11 tried their best to make the Icelandic people feel at home. This old lady that used to get the eggs from, very often she would smile all over. I can see her cracked smile and she'd kiss me and I don't know, at the time I didn't enjoy it too much because I thought they were a little bit, not exactly dirty, because I knew we had a tub and the water pumped into the house, but very many people in Spanish Fork at the early time when they came didn't have it. We didn't have much either but we all kind of shared along, alike. I surely did like them. JS: Did they have large families? EH: Some of them did, yes, and some of them didn't. Some of them didn't have any children. I know of three or four families that didn't have any children. Others had quite large families. Especially John Johnson's family. Their kids grew up right along with the rest of us and went to school with us. Some were older than I am. Annie Johnson Hallam is one that's still living. I don't know what I could say. The Val Gardson’s, the Olson’s, the Magus Enerson’s, the Geslison’s and the Johnsons. There were a lot of Johnsons, I don't know whether they were related or not. One old lady that I remember very well married a Brother Holt the second time after his wife died. Anyone that was afflicted, if they got a bur in their eye she would lick it out with her tongue. We called her, her name was Vigfus, but we called her Aunt Weeky. Many's the time the kids would be playing around, they had nothing to play with but weeds or a few things, and they'd chase each other and they'd get a bur in their eye. She would just take their eye, hold their hands and head there like this end just lick it out with her tongue. It would come right out. I don't know how she did it. I guess she knew more about doctoring than anyone else, so 12 far as Icelandic doctoring was concerned and she did a lot of good in this too, Vigfus Holt. JS: It seems like they had a lot of practical, common knowledge about things. EH: They did. Of course I think Iceland is behind us in lots of ways. They had their hot water that they could bath in most any time but they didn't have the homes they have now. They must have come at least about 1860 but this book will tell you when they came, the first ones, (book by Kate Carter). But as I said they didn't all come because of Mormonism. I really don't know why they came. JS: I was wondering, you said that some were Lutherans and some weren't. Wasn't the state religion of Iceland Lutheran? EH: I beg your pardon? JS: Was the state religion of Iceland Lutheran? EH: Yes, I think it is. Reverend Lee, he was a Presbyterian, and he got Ellen and her father to join that because that was quite a feather in his cap. She could sing for the Presbyterians you know and Rose could play the piano. They did a lot of good. Built solidly and all they had was branches to go over the oval at the top and then the dirt thrown over it. You’d wonder why it wouldn't leak down. JS: You'd get a little worried, especially in the winter time. EH: Yes, and we had cold winter, colder than we have now I think. They got along. They were thin. I don't remember ever seeing a real fat Icelandic person. They were so thrifty, I don't think they ate what they should have done or could have probably because they 13 didn't get along with food very much. They didn't have it. The Mormons and their people that lived here didn't have much in those days. I remember father killing a beef and cutting it up in small pieces and telling the hired man to take it on Christmas Eve, you know, but to be sure and see that they got it because the dogs would get it. I think people gave to them a lot to help them out right at first. So, I think they enjoyed their life here. In fact a lot of them just think that there is no place like Spanish Fork. Yes these girls that I went to school with really loved Spanish Fork. They were loyal, patriotic, they'd do anything for you that they could do for you. They are good people as a whole. I think they're all good. I never knew one, as I say, to ever commit crime in Spanish Fork. Some of the boys, the younger boys, were a little nuisance, but that's to be thought of because others, our Spanish Fork boys, with them sometimes when they did things you know. JS: Did any of them pick up a trade or a business other than farming? EH: Oh, yes, I should say. They had, as I told you, the women were very good with the needle. They would sew for people. I wish I had this picture, if I'd thought about. I have it where this Mrs. Spoolgate Johnson made my dress and my sister Lenor's dress and my baby brother's dress. He was small. They dressed boys in dresses then. Then my other brother stood by the side of us and we had our pictures taken. They made things for all over. Sarah Erickson told me when I called her this morning, I didn't know some of the names and she said that she went around and helped a lot of the Icelandic ladies that didn't know a thing about sewing. So Mary Andrus made a dress for one of my children too, and came down and gave it to us. They were really nice. Then as I said, they went into the milliner business. Bill Johnson went into politics later on and he was a son of 14 the first one that came. One of them went into plumbing and Vic went into building houses and his boys are still in it now. The third generation you see. So I think they were very intelligent people in lots of ways. Except they couldn't get the language right at first, a lot of the old people. Now I'm talking about the old people when I say that because they just couldn't get it and their husbands weren't very good at getting it. But, they caught on to a few things because they had to deal with the English speaking people around here so the men caught on to it a lot faster than the older women. Rod that dad fixed for her and the buckets hanging on it and she'd go to different ones and it didn't make any difference to her whether they were Mormons or not, if they needed things she'd go. And many of the times that my mother laid out the dead. You see we didn't have any mortuary then and so she'd lay out the dead for Icelandic people and so I think that’s why they thought so much of her. But she did a lot of good and I shouldn't worry but I think of all of the times that I promised people that I'd sing at their funerals and then I didn't get to because I left for Washington D.C. and my husband was studying law. But when we'd get the Spanish Fork press and read about their deaths I'd be sad for several days because I knew that Sister Peterson and Sister Johnson and Sister Vigfus had been promised that I would sing to their funerals, but of course somebody else did. I imagine that Ellen did, Ellen Jameson, because she sang to nearly every funeral. She was a beautiful singer. She's the only singer that I know of in the group that age anyway, that donated so much time and talent to the town. But the town appreciated her so they would do things for Ellen. Finally, towards the last, I wasn't here, I was in D.C., I understand that she decided that she'd have to charge for her services. Then they would get somebody else that was younger. I was just told that 15 today. I didn't know that and they'd get somebody else that was younger and so Ellen didn't make any money on it at all. But she was a good kid, a good girl. I think as a whole the Icelandic people could be patted on the back for their truthfulness, and for the way they lived and for what they overcame. It was so new to them you know, so absolutely new to them and they didn't have any money and so they just had to live in dug-outs. But there isn't another one left. Sarah Erickson told me that her mother used their dug-out that they lived in at first as a caller, it was right back of the house they built. So it was convenient for quite a while afterwards, and they’d put their potatoes that they'd raised down there and cabbages and things and they had quite a nice time. Anyway, they weren’t used to a great deal of extra things like oranges and things like that that we get here all the time. They were too far north to ship them up there so they didn't really know what oranges and the different varieties of canned stuff, they didn't have it all there. So they were thrifty, they got along on what they had and what they did. JS: It sounds like a lot of them were very involved in education. Is that right? EH: Yes, they were. A lot of them taught school and a lot of them, oh, quite a few of them were good musicians that I remember. Just as soon as they could get old enough the second generation really got out and they taught school. They were milliners, they ran a millenary store, as I told you. They also had hairdressing as soon as that came in. Their kids went right into hairdressing and several of them still are hairdressers. Bernice Bearnson, Gil Bearnson's daughter you know, she is still a hairdresser. They really hurried up and jumped into things they could make a little money on. Just like everybody else they knew they had to do it I guess. At Christmas time in this old lumber 16 chapel just across the street from our home and a little bit South, they had a Christmas party every Christmas. They had all the Icelandic kids come there. A little gift would be given to each young kid. The old ones would go together and they'd all pay for it. My friend Sarah was telling me that she had to say a little piece and so she said a little recitation about, "Oh dear I know it's Christmas and I do Hope I get a dolly." And she tried to make it rhyme and she said she couldn't, she was so small. But when it came around to handing out the presents she got a dolly. She said they always had music. And they would always come there to play different instruments. And they just had a grand time at Christmas time. Then they would go down to our ward. Our ward later would have a little Christmas party for the kids, because that was about all the entertainment they had in those days. And so we'd dance ring-around-a-rosy you know in this old ward hall. But it was fun and we just enjoyed them and they enjoyed our times because I think our parties were a little bit more. We'd popcorn and did things, and strung cranberries for our Christmas trees at that time. They tried to take our customs just as well. She said they never did have a very big tree but it was just covered with popcorn and walnuts. They'd buy some walnuts and then do as my sisters did, paint them with gold paint and stick them back together again and hang them around their tree. Also these red cranberries so they had a festive looking tree and enjoyed it. JS: I'm glad you remembered that one. EH: My mother had a green thumb and she used to take the peas that we picked and cream them with the new potatoes, and one day she sent me down to a little hunchbacked boy, Eric Hanson. 17 {End of tape} JS: This is a continuation of the interview with Sister Bess Hales. We ended on a story on the last tape about a little hunchbacked boy and so we'll finish that now. EH: Author Hanson was an Icelandic boy, his parents were but he was a second generation and he was very poorly so far as his health was concerned. My mother had a green thumb and we had a garden and we grew peas and then shelled them, picked them and shelled them. Then we dug potatoes and creamed the peas and potatoes with a big chunk of butter. My mother sent me down to Author. He was one of her favorites because he was always at primary and still it was hard for him to get around. So when I took that to him I remember very distinctly the mother saying "now you take this bottle of raspberries back to your mother, for the goodness that she does. This is all I have and this is my last bottle and I want her to have it. So I didn't know whether to take it back to her or not. But I did and once after that when we were working on the old folks committee, the mother was on the committee, I traded her for a bottle of raspberries because she didn't have any, for a bottle of Icelandic pickles. She was a good cook. She was Nina Beckstrom's mother. The association I have had with them has been very dear. JS: Whatever happened to that little boy? EH: He died. He died about four years afterward. He just couldn't live. I don't know what it was. It was a huge lump on his back and he wasn't just a hunchback. I can't remember really what he died of but about four years after that he passed away. He was a loveable kid. I know my mother just thought the world and all of him. 18 AN ORAL HISTORY OF THE ICELANDIC HISTORY OF SPANISH FORK Submitted in partial fulfillment of the requirements of the Weber State College Oral History Program by Joyce B. Slye on November 1, 1972 19 INDEX I. SUMMARY AND ANALYSIS OF PROJECT * II. INTERVIEW I: J. VICTOR LIEFSON * III. INTERVIEW II: MRS. ELIZABETH HALES IV. INTERVIEW III: MRS. MARY ANDRUS AND MRS. SARAH HANSEN V. INTERVIEW IV: MRS. ELEANOR JARVIS VI. INTERVIEW V: PRES. BYRON GESLISON VII. PICTURES: MONUMENT, INTERVIEWEES, GRAVE MARKINGS, HOMES. VIII. BIBLIOGRAPHY 20 AN ORAL HISTORY OF THE ICELANDIC PEOPLE OFSPANISR FORK I. Project description "In I85I two Icelandic Mormons from Copenhagen came as missionaries to the Westmann Islands, southwestern Iceland. They succeeded in converting a few people. One of these became the first Icelandic emigrant to America. In 1855 Thordur Thidriksson started out by way of Denmark and England for the Mormon settlements in Utah. . . The voyage across the Atlantic took seven weeks. Fifty people died but Thidriksson reached New York on March 7, 1856, and made his way thence overland. Icelandic colonists followed him and a small settlement was founded at Spanish Fork Utah." This small colony, which has the unique reputation for being the first permanent Icelandic settlement in the Americas, became by accident the topic of my oral history project. Accidentally, because was only through a chance conversation that I was ever aware of the local history concerned with this nationality and as I later found out my initial impressions gather from this brief conversation were incorrect. Rather than being a story of feudal struggles it was a very human history of determined folk to adapt to the hardships of a new way of life and discrimination by those who failed to understand. The above quote is typical of the recorded history that I found of this colony. This was one of three direct references made of the Spanish Fork colony. Of the other two one was a collection of brief biographies of early settlers by Kate Carter, and the other, a history of Spanish Fork only mentioned the fact that a few Icelanders had settled here. This particular colony has been generally ignored by historians in preference to the 21 expeditions into Brazil and Canada and other areas of the United States such as Minnesota and Nebraska. The words "first permanent have taken second chair to other more adventurous movements. This is understandable because the Canadian account records a struggle of greater consequence to its people. Physical endurance was apparently fried in extremes under adverse conditions of weather, soil infertility, political reversals of government, and at one time becoming a pawn for colonial efforts of both the Canadian and United States government. Although the Canadian government contributed material benefits to attract colonists, many or most settlements were eventually left uninhabited as were many in the U.S. as settlers left in search of more hospitable areas. It is of significance to note that although many settlements were only temporary it was not due to the weakness of the settlers. Miss Margaret McWilliams as well as other authors have made the following observation about their steadfastness. "The difficulties which this settlement encountered would have defeated a less sturdy people. . . Since I had to abandon my hopes for the more romantic history project other avenues had to be explored and there were many. The brief sketch of history above suggests a number of questions to be examined relative to my particular project. One concerned what national or personal conditions lead to immigration? How was the move made possible? What information: would history contribute concerning their political and social heritage? Whe.t have been the consequences and advantages of geographical isolation and what effect if any did that have upon their ability to adapt to a new environment? "What have been the results of political influence from Norway and especially Denmark? Why did Spanish Fork become the destination? Once the 22 destination had been achieved how did assimilation take place? What were the physical conditions of their life? By what means did they make a living and gain a trade? What relationship existed between the Danes and the Icelanders here due to the political bondage at home? What were the religious influences? This is a limit of basic questions that were initially suggested, as the project progressed others became apparent. Such as, why have the Icelanders maintained a sort of duel patriotism while other nationalities have lost this identity? Icelanders continue to celebrate the founding of this settlement called Iceland Day, one of major significance was held in the 1950's. They are also avid genealogists and I was curious as to their methods due to the naming process and the eventual change resulting from emigration although close ties with the mother country have been maintained. Of equal importance was information concerning customs and traditions Icelanders brought with them and continued to practice. They were and axe an especially educated a literate people which trait seemed to contribute directly to their acceptance into the community. This was a particularly easy area to probe. Icelanders were and are proud of their customs and achievements. Their success in the community readily bares out the truth, of this observation. The pursuit of excellence can be attested to in education carpentry and etc. Other questions pertained to personal and recall experiences as the occasion suggested. These came easier for some informants that for others but were always valuable. Without exception all informants were sensitive about misquoting, offending or leaving out someone involved with this history and were careful about what was said and how. So often I was instructed to turn off the tape recorder and listen to an 23 experience they wanted me to hear but refused to tape because "someone might read this." I got the impression that the states and relationships acquired in Spanish Fork over the years came not without difficulty and sacrifice and they (especially the older generation) were not about to jeopardize it. Although, I feel too that I’d been the first to hear their story, but something about the tape and the word history posed a threat. In concluding this subject introduction may I use a quote that expresses the general opinion that has been expressed concerning this people? It includes some general exaggerations but I was impressed with the amount of truth there is about the motherland and those Icelanders I have become acquainted with. "The Icelanders are ... by all accounts, the most devout, innocent, pure-hearted people in the world. Crime, theft, debauchery, cruelty, are unknown among them; they have neither prison, gallows, soldiers nor police; and in the manner of the lies they lead . . . there is something of a patriarchal simplicity. II. Project analysis The need for personal preparation for the project became more apparent as the work progressed. Initially I felt prepared with essentially little research information. As completion approach I found myself wishing my efforts were only just beginning. At first research was difficult and rather unproductive but as I proceeded with each stage of work new sources became available especially human resources. Although this is bound to be true of all such projects future efforts would have more time spent in preparation not underestimating the value of any source until it has been investigated. I am aware that too much knowledge can also be harmful especially if improperly used, 24 however informants expect some degree of literacy. Properly used knowledge lend an air of importance to the project and to the person being called upon for help. My first attempts lead to lengthy explanations sometimes unnecessary and irritation to the informant. Perhaps experience is another key factor. I found that with every informant there were certain aspects of Icelandic history I was expected to know and which they felt unnecessary to repeat but that were in my opinion essential to the dialogue. These items usually concerned local events or people that permanent citizen are generally aware of but that newcomers like myself would not be familiar with. When pinned down to fact, my informants would supply information called for. More often than not things were alluded to either because the time and conversation made it inconvenient or because I was unable to capitalize on the moment. One such instance concerned a discussion of two Mormon missionaries in Iceland and their "objectionable conduct." Bro Liefson was hesitant to discuss the matter but a historian of more experience than myself may have achieved better success. This is true of the other topics in that discussion; a book called Paradise Regained is a good example. To him the book was a fraud written to deceive the reading public. He had little respect for the author due to "inconsistencies and untruths" written and stated about people here and in Iceland. He refused to discuss any of this on tape for fear of injury to local feelings and he did not want the local public aware of the book and its contents. I went immediately to the B.Y.U. and found a copy in the special collections section. It was a highly romanticized novel but I was not familiar enough with isolated historical events to pass judgment on its authenticity. It did pass on some rather colorful interpretations that would have been 25 interesting to explore further. Brother Geslison was familiar with the book and agreed that much of it was exaggerated but was unable to state specific instances. Others were generally unfamiliar with the book. Another weakness is very apparent in my project; the nature of the questions posed. Questions concerning early history and facts about Iceland raised few problems but those concerning local and personal history were more difficult. Since there was little information about the local history many of my questions were based on assumption or hearsay or picked up during interviews. I often had to rely on conversational clues for the next discussion topic. And since these questions could not be tested for reliance they often were poorly stated or/and misunderstood. I found this all too true when interviewing Mrs. Hales and Mr. Liefson. Mrs. Hales was especially patient but all too often we found ourselves misunderstanding the others statements which lead to repeating. Mr. Liefson’s interview started so well that I found myself taking the success for granted. Rather than controlling the direction of the dialogue myself I allowed it to wonder. So, it would appear on the tape that except for my few mumbled attempts to question, he was conduction an interview of himself. Because of this many interesting items were left unexplored end other less important ones were discussed in depth. III. Analysis of individual tapes A. Brother Liefson is to me the typical Icelander as I have come to know them. He is a widower with many self-imposed responsibilities. Before retirement he was a building contractor in good standing as were his father and grandfather. 26 Since retirement he has served on the city council and a variety of city committees. At present he has resigned many of these responsibilities and has concentrated on genealogy and his own Icelandic library, which is impressive. He and others of his kin have made five trips back to Iceland, one which he returned from just recently with much enthusiasm. I think it would be safe to say he is exceptionally involved with anything that pertains to Iceland. He speaks and reads the language fluently and as is apparent in the tape he is extremely knowledgeable on the subject and loves to talk about it. We spent several hours during our first meeting looking at his slides, cards, books and keepsakes which was an excellent introduction to our taped interview. Previous to our taping appointment he simply glowed with excitement about the things he knew of and could tell me about Iceland. Then as we started into the tape he became almost too formal and too concerned about a precise format*• He was confident about his material and proceeded without notes during the entire interview. At times he was almost too confident and it sounds as if he were doing the whole thing himself. This was especially true of the most historical parts and those concerning present day Iceland which seemed to be his discussion favorite. I appreciated the information contributed but am disappointed in some excessive deviations on general items such as the water systems of the country. Lack of experience and confidence on my part is probably to blame for this. Either my initial explanations of the project were not clear enough or/and my questions not directive. In reviewing the tape I felt many of the questions were 27 weak and indicted a dependency on this knowledge rather than a definite goal with the means set down. The introduction produced information valuable for background as did those concerning the early Mormon settlement, but where my knowledge of local history weakened, so did our dialogue. Overall the interview was productive and provided a good introduction to the project and gave me several valuable leads for future reference. B. Sister Hales provided both a personal and an objective view of the local Icelanders. One of the sweetest people in our town, she accepts everyone for what they are and the good that is in them as well as the bad. Not being an Icelander herself she didn't become sidetracked in the glories of Iceland and Icelandic heritage. Rather we were able to concentrate on specific individuals, living conditions, beliefs, experiences and a variety of speculations. As we began the interview her nervousness was somewhat apparent and she tended to repeat certain phrases. When she became more confident she willingly revealed herself and her experiences without hesitation. Several things seemed to trouble her however, and-at various times during the interview she would repeat regrets such as her failure to sing at a number of Icelanders funerals. In her sweet way she also voiced objections she still harbored concerning the fact that she was shown less consideration for her singing engagements than was another lady with fewer obligations. This particular interview was terminated with mixed feelings on my part; I had the impression that she had many more stories or experiences to share if 28 properly stimulated. She was growing tired and we both needed a rest. In the intermission between our next visit her health suffered a setback by a fall she sustained in her front yard. Consequently we did not pursue our dialogue any further. C. The names of Sarah Hansen and Mary Andrus were suggested tome by Sister Hales and they proved to be enjoyable informants. Both are elderly; Mrs. Andrus is or was a little restless and hard of hearing, and Mrs. Hansen rather shy and uncertain. Mrs. Hansen later informed me that she had suffered a stroke a few months earlier which explained her insecurity about her memory. Both ladies appeared to have a great deal to say about their past and Mary Andrus spoke quite freely about her girlhood. Sarah Hansen on the other hand was dependent upon her sister for suggestions and aids for her dialogue and lacked the confidence to really give of herself. This particular interview was really a challenge to me at first and after about thirty to forty minutes of dialogue I felt like we had accomplished only moderate success. Jarvis Warner, Mrs. Hansen's son, appeared on the scene to offer considerable assistance. His jovial personality seemed to add some spark to the interview and he contributed variety to the interview as well as some interesting experiences and information. Perhaps one most important contribution this family made to the project was to give meaning to the conditions of the poor living conditions. They were able to describe the demands of providing a means of livelihood and participation by all family members without bitterness or resentfulness. Interestingly enough I 29 got the impression that they felt that struggles with nature were necessary as well as were those with society. They seemed to feel that it was right that they be asked to prove their worth prior to their acceptance into that community. They felt they had succeeded in proving themselves and had earned a certain amount of recognition. This is one instance when I wish I had taken time to become better acquainted with my people before I attempted to conduct an interview. More would have been accomplished. D. Eleanor Jarvis. I believe it was Hamlet that said . . . "Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow ..." particularly imitating the passing of time without accomplishment. Without being too critical, this interview was my most difficult. Eleanor Jarvis is a fine woman, very dedicated to her Icelandic Heritage. She is a sister to Kate Carter and her brother Jack Bearnson is a prominent Icelandic genealogist. Eleanor however is a wonderful little lady with a great deal of knowledge and because obligation of her early years are gone she concentrates on journals and genealogy and other work concerning Iceland. Her information was valuable but it seemed that we had to wade through numerous amounts of materials not to be taped to get to that that could. I'm sure that own urgency to proceed contributed very little to the confliction. I regret that many item assigned to untaped conversation because of her sensitivity about the potential reading audience. Other problems arose after the recording was made and the transcription returned. She was extremely cautious about the way she sounded. She also felt 30 that much if not all should be redone to sound better. I was able to persuade her to leave the paper and tape as they were and make corrections and additions only where she felt information had not been given correctly or was not complete. I spent many very nervous moments with Mrs. Jarvis trying to encourage her and explain her the reasons for the informal nature of the interview. My success was somewhat questionable. But I did appreciate her concern and willingness to help. E. President Geslison provided my very favorite interview, probable because of his warm and personable manner. Our interview was conducted in the Spanish Fork High School Seminary building, in his office, which although rather small and crowded was quite compatible to our needs and put at his fingertips any or all information he needed. At one point during the interview he took the time to show me some of his work on genealogy. He reviewed on the tape how easy genealogy is to trace if you are or can be traced to a line of royalty or kings, which is apparently not uncommon because of the numbers of petty kings in the Scandinavian countries. His particular line connected to Harold the Fair Haired who was a unifying king of Norway and it was fascinating to see the royal names of history. Also, Brother Geslison was much less sensitive about what he spoke about. He was careful not to use names unnecessarily or speculate on hearsay but I felt he was more concerned with the content of the tape and that it be complete and honest rather than about who was to read it and what they would think. 31 He was, however, very soft spoken and I had difficulty is keeping his volume high enough to record. I also neglected to allow the recorder to warm itself up before proceeding and the introduction and first few sentences were left out. IV. Class Evaluation My impressions are for the most part favorable. I am grateful for the opportunities provided and for the knowledge and relationships resulting from my project. The orientation week was exciting and extremely motivating. I was personally very stimulated by the concepts of this new type of historical research and its present and future potential. The opportunity for individuality was possibly the most exciting part and I think, Dr. Sadler, that your personal enthusiasm was the greatest contributor along with that of your colleague. Many good ideas have stayed on the ground because of a lack of or the inability to generate a sincere enthusiasm. Looking back on my initiation to the project I felt unprepared in two ways specifically. First may I say I appreciated the expert discussion of the professors from Weber and Utah State University concerning their work in this field? However these men were professionally and academically involved and I don't feel presented a realistic impression of the project. Previous students of this project, not professionally involved, may have been helpful. I would like to have been warned by one of my own peers about the tedious hours of typing, research disappointments, dissatisfactory interviews, moments of discouragement as well as the successes resulting. I would have liked to question several of them in class and maybe have them demonstrate their opinions using their own tapes and transcripts. The one particular session where we listened to 32 simple tapes was only partially helpful and would have been more helpful to barter or in conjunction with the session mentioned above. Also I would like to have seen a sample project or projects complete to examine the authors purpose and technique. Our handouts were especially helpful, but the written word is much clearer when accompanied by the real thing. I regret not keeping in closer touch. About the end of July I was rather down, lost and frankly unmotivated. One mid-project regrouping of the troops to hash out problems and discouragements .would really have helped. Sometimes sharing is good medication. The telephone conversations were extremely helpful and motivation was renewed at the conclusion. However, and speaking for myself one or two required group conferences at mid-points in the project would have been wonderful or did my failure to attend one result, from my own ignorance of their existence. In closing may I say that this has honestly been perhaps the most worthwhile projects for history that I've participated in? This would have been a much more realistic application of practical history for the senior history seminar then the written one required at B.Y.U. 33