Oral History Program Anissa McCann Interviewed by Grant Ulrigg 15 September 2022 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Anissa McCann Interviewed by Grant Ulrigg 15 September 2022 Copyright © 2023 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description Queering the Archives oral history project is a series of oral histories from the LGBTQ+ communities of Weber, Davis and Morgan Counties of Northern Utah. Each interview is a life interview, documenting the interviewee’s unique experiences growing up queer. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: McCann, Anissa, an oral history by Grant Ulrigg, 15 September 2022, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections & University Archives (SCUA), Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Anissa McCann conducted on September 15, 2022 by Grant Ulrigg. Anissa shares her childhood experiences and what it was like growing up as a bisexual demigirl in an LDS family in Idaho Falls. She talks about discovering her sexuality during the pandemic, the comfort she’s found in the theatre department and Weber State University as a whole, and some of her favorite queer media. Also present is Faith Christiansen. GU: We have Anissa McCann with us. Today is September 15 at 4:20 and we are going to conduct this interview. With us is myself Grant, and the second person is Faith. Can we start out with pronouns and how you identify? AM: Okay, I use she/they pronouns. I identify as a bisexual demigirl. GU: Perfect. Like I said before, if there's any sensitive topics, we can definitely skip over them. AM: There's not much I'm not willing to talk about. GU: Cool. Let's just start with the beginning. When and where were you born? AM: I was born on December 25, 2003, in Idaho Falls, Idaho. I basically just barely moved to Utah, so I've lived most of my life there. GU: Okay. How is it having a Christmas birthday? AM: So much fun. My parents have always made sure that there's Christmas, but then there's a couple hours where it's my birthday and I get my birthday present. It's slightly separated so that it doesn't feel like, “Here's your Christmas present and your birthday present. They're the same thing.” GU: Right. I have my stepmom, who is two days after Christmas. AM: See, that's just rough because you are out of money. GU: Right. She would always be like, “There's one present left for my birthday, and the rest is Christmas.” It's hard to differentiate that sometimes, so it's good to hear that you got both. 1 AM: Yeah. My mom does have a money system, so it's like, “You get $50 for your birthday and $100 spent on you for Christmas.” It's very fair. GU: That's awesome. What was your family dynamic growing up? AM: It was a little rough. When I was pretty young, it was pretty normal. Mom stayed home, worked at a daycare, Dad went to work, all this stuff. But when I was like 12, my mom started going through a lot of mental health issues, so she was in and out of the hospital and suddenly it was just Dad at home. A lot of things changed in middle school. GU: Are you an only child or do you have siblings? AM: I have three younger siblings. GU: Okay. When did you know or feel that you were different from others? AM: I always knew that I was different in general. Not even necessarily just with gender and sexuality, I was just the weird kid, so I was always different. I think around middle school is when I started to notice that I was attracted to women, but I kept being like, “Oh, no, I'm not,” because people kept making comments about it. I was like, “Oh, well, if that's how they feel about it, then I'm just going to not.” GU: Right. Can you think of any specific instances and like what they said or did? AM: My dad back then wasn't super accepting, but after he left his religion and everything, he got so much better, so when I came out it was fine. But when I was in middle school, he made some comment—not necessarily about gay people, but bisexual people in particular. We were watching Titanic and he was like, “I don't like the actor who plays Jack because he's bisexual, which means he'll have sex with anybody.” I was like, “Oh, that's what I was thinking I might be, so I'm going to… not.” GU: Do you think if he would have been more accepting that you would have come out sooner? 2 AM: Definitely. Like I said, after a couple of years had gone by, he became the most accepting person ever. I feel like if that was the dad that I had when I was in middle school, then I would have come out years earlier. GU: Growing up, what were you taught about gender roles? AM: It was interesting because I grew up pretty LDS, so it was the LDS rules at the time. Girls wear dresses, boys wear pants; young girls can wear pants, but they have to wear dresses to church. Girls do girl things, boys do boy things, and there's no such thing as anything else. In my family, it was slightly different. We still followed those rules, but my dad didn't care if the boys played with dolls because he played with dolls when he was younger, and that made him a great dad. That was his thing. “You can pretty much play with whatever toys you want, but girls still wear dresses, boys still wear pants,” that sort of thing. GU: Okay, so centered more around what you were wearing, not necessarily what you were doing. AM: Yeah, it was a lot to do with what we were wearing. GU: [To Faith] Do you have any questions so far? FC: How did the LDS belief system that your parents had impact the gender roles? Do you think it would have been different without the LDS religion? AM: I feel like it definitely would have been different without the LDS religion. I feel like it would have been a lot more accepting, because the evidence here is that my parents became accepting when they left the church. If they never would have been in the church, they probably would have been more accepting in the first place. Maybe not completely, because the world influences, but I definitely think that religion had a lot of an impact on what they taught us. It definitely had a lot to do with gender roles, especially because in the religion, you know, men can hold the priesthood. Women can't. It’s a lot. 3 FC: Were you taught similar gender roles in your local community and in your education and school growing up? AM: Yes, I grew up in Idaho Falls and everybody in Idaho Falls, or at least in my town and my neighborhood, were pretty much all LDS, no matter where you went. My drama club was majority LDS people. It didn't matter where you went, the ideas were all pretty much the same. GU: I'm kind of bouncing off of that. What were you taught about sexuality growing up, if at all? AM: It took me a very long time to learn anything about sexuality simply because in most religions, marriage is between a man and a woman, so that's all I felt was there. My dad had mentored a bunch of kids in military history, and one of his mentees came out as gay. He was the first like gay guy I ever knew, but I think the difference here was, he didn't really talk about it much. He was kind of the type of guy that was like, “I don't really want to go to the pride parade. I don't really want to celebrate it. I just want to have a boyfriend.” It was never something that I was taught about, and I didn't even know for the longest time because it flew over my head. I was like, “Oh, that's Chad's friend.” GU: So your first exposure to queerness would probably be him? AM: It would be him, yeah. When I figured out that he was gay, it was probably my first. FC: Any other examples in your life at that point? AM: Media had a lot to do with it. Once I got a phone and everything, I learned a lot more about it. I think I was like 11 on Wattpad reading what these different sexualities mean, and being like, “There’s more? You can be more than just straight?” GU: Going to the media: what was the first media that you saw or heard besides Wattpad? Was it a specific show or movie or music? 4 AM: That's a hard one. I know I got a lot of it from Wattpad simply because Wattpad’s all about fanfiction. Any queer person knows that when you're introduced to Harry Potter, you go on Wattpad, you search ‘Harry Potter’, the first thing that comes up is Draco Malfoy + Harry Potter. That had a lot to do with it. I didn't really get much movies and TV shows and books surrounding it, especially just where I live. It just wasn't available to me. GU: What was your first exposure to being bisexual? AM: I am a researcher. I hyperfixate on things and then I research and I research and I research. I just found the term on Google when I was googling different sexualities and I was like, “Oh, so you can like all the genders, but you still have preference. That makes sense. I'm going to go with that.” FC: During your research, did you see any representation of bisexuality? AM: I didn't really find much representation of actual people who were bisexual until I started getting on social media and I started seeing people. I didn't get on social media ‘til like 15 because my mom was very strict about it, like, “Guys are going to ask you for naked pictures. Don't get on there.” GU: You talked about how you looked up this term and then you did your own research and discovery and stuff like that. Were there any outside factors that helped you get to the point that you might be bisexual? AM: Yeah. In 2020, during COVID was when I like actually was like, “I am bisexual. I can't just push it off, I am bisexual.” That was a combination between me watching the videos on TikTok of people being like, “I'm bisexual, this is what it means and this is who I'm attracted to,” and then me taking that information and realizing “Well, I'm attracted to her. I don't just think she's pretty, I'm attracted to that girl.” I have a specific memory of being in rehearsals for The Music Man and being like, “I think she's pretty, I think he's pretty.”. 5 GU: Okay. So you would say about 2020, that's when you really started to accept being bisexual? AM: Definitely. GU: Because of when you accepted it, this might be a little different, but has that changed how you've interacted with everyone in your day-to-day life? AM: It kind of depends. I didn't change too much. I felt more confident in myself, so I talked about it more, which did kind of get shamed out a little bit. They're like, “Well, you just came out, why are you constantly talking about women?” But I knew the places where I was comfortable in acting a little differently, and I also knew the places where I had to just sit and be uncomfortable, which was most of the places. FC: What were your safe spaces? AM: My main safe place was just the theatre department, because I had two friends. At first it was just one, but when I met his little sibling, they were nonbinary. But when it was just him, he came out to me as trans my freshman year. He was like my queer friend; the friend that I had that was queer, and I felt very comfortable with him. I felt very comfortable in the drama department because even if I knew that none of them really accepted me, they knew that enough people were queer in the department to not be mean and actually say offensive things. GU: Right. Now that you've accepted and living your truth now, looking back, do you think that there's ever been any representation that growing up, you didn't see it, but then you look back like, “Oh, that was kind of…” AM: Not that I necessarily saw, but I do know that there were a lot more movies out there than I thought there was. There was a lot more queer representation in film. The only problem was those films were the ones not getting seen. Those books were the ones not getting seen. That kind of music wasn't even allowed in religious- 6 type households. So there was definitely some out there, I just was never allowed to look at it. GU: Are there any that come straight to your mind that you've enjoyed since? AM: I remember Love Simon, but I didn't actually like that movie as much because I read the book first and I was kind of disappointed when I watched the movie. FC: So the book was better? AM: The book was better. GU: That's usually the case. Books are better. FC: That means you love the book. AM: Yeah, I love the book. The book was great, but I watched the movie and I was like, “What is this?” I guess it's queer representation, but it's not good. It kind of felt like a Disney Channel original movie. GU: More recently, those have been flops. So you talked about how your dad was kind of in the middle and then became very accepting. Is that the case with your mother, your siblings and extended family? AM: My main family is super supportive. My mom is super supportive. My dad was super supportive. All my siblings. My oldest brother was 13 when I came out, and his reaction was, “I knew it was coming.” I was like, “Thanks.” My little siblings were like, “Okay, and?” My mom was accepting, my dad was accepting. My grandparents on my mom's side still don't know because I'm terrified of telling them. But my grandparents on my dad's side, I told them about a month later and they were like, “Okay, if that's how you choose to live your life.” I have some extended family that's on board, but most of them are just like, “I'm not going to be mean, but that's a choice I don't agree with.” But my immediate family has always 7 been supportive enough that I haven't felt like I have to go back in the closet or anything, except around my mom's parents because they scare me a little bit. FC: Did it change any family dynamics? AM: My brother did tell me that my grandma once asked him if I was still bi. She was cutting his hair and was like, “So is Anissa still bi? Is that still a thing?” My brother was like, “I think so. What kind of a question is that?” GU: How is North Utah different from Idaho Falls? AM: It is actually surprisingly better. Since Utah is like the Mormon state and then Idaho is like the cousin of the Mormon state, I was expecting it to be a lot worse. But I got here and a bunch of people that I've talked to in my major are like, “Really? I'm gay, too.” There's more. Weber State, with their Women's Center and LGBT Center and all that stuff, stuff that I would never have even seen. I think our GSA at my high school shut down because the main director's husband wouldn't let her do it anymore. GU: Wow. That's some pull there and I don't like it. If you could, what would you say to your younger self? AM: I would probably just say, “Be yourself, no matter what anybody else tells you, no matter what anybody else says. Yourself is yourself, and you can be true to yourself.” GU: Do you have any questions? FC: Have you been able to find any safe spaces here in Northern Utah? AM: Yes. I think I feel more comfortable being queer in this theatre department than even my high school's theatre department, which is surprising because I was very comfortable. I felt very comfortable at my high school. Also, the Women's Center area is a great place to go hang out with queer people. FC: Are you a student at Weber State? 8 AM: Yes. FC: How is Weber State? AM: Weber State is really great about it. I definitely enjoy being here. It's a good school for queer people. FC: Good. We like to talk about current topics every now and again, and I know that it's still heated right now, but Roe v. Wade happened. AM: That did happen. FC: You want to talk about it? You don't have to. AM: Sure, let's talk about it. I don't mind. FC: How did it make you feel? AM: It made me pretty sad. I have always understood both sides of the argument. I've been more like, “Pro-choice means you have a choice. That's the whole point of it.” But I was really sad when people didn't have that choice anymore. Then I got even more depressed when the statement was like, “Next we're going to try and turn over gay marriage.” I was like “Oh, boy.” FC: How harshly do you think that affected the community? AM: It was pretty bad, especially when you realized how split everybody was. You go on Instagram and see one of your best friends being like, “Wahoo.” It was really hard to see your best friends on Instagram having completely different opinions than you and bashing on your opinions that you have. That was really rough. GU: I have a couple more questions, but they're a little bit lighter. Who is your gay icon or role model? You can do a top three if you want to. AM: Shoot. I don't even know if I know their names. I'm a very media-centric person, so I watch a lot of movies and stuff. I remember the characters' names, but I don't remember the actors. 9 FC: If you give us the character names we can do research. AM: Let's see. Alice Oseman is one of my favorites. She's a great queer author. If you know about the Heartstopper shows on Netflix, she wrote the webcomics that those were based off of. I'm reading Solitaire, which was her first novel. It's just the best representation because the main characters are everything. I love it so much. GU: Jumping off of that, are there any other queer books that you are a fan of, or any authors in general that have queer representation? AM: I don't remember the author, but I do remember reading a book called Suicide Notes. It had a lot of deep topics, so I put a trigger warning before recommending it. I don't remember who's the main character, but it did have some queer representation that I wasn't even expecting because it was like a plot twist. I was like, “He's gay?!” GU: We're doing a thing next month about queer books, so we're just trying to get as many as possible. AM: Literally anything by Alice Oseman. I think every single book she has written is about a type of queer person. I think she wrote one about an aromantic person. I don't know exactly what her sexuality is in the book, but the subtitle is “This is not a love story.” It's like, “Why are you pushing me to get it with this guy?” I just love Heartstopper. Just in the webcomics, we have lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans. FC: Heartstopper was revolutionary. AM: I know. It was amazing. I own all four webcomics and all four books and the two novellas, which, by the way, is every book she's ever written. GU: One question I did have. Has there ever been a time in Idaho Falls or in Northern Utah that you have felt unsafe, either because you were out as bisexual, or just in general? 10 AM: It's not necessarily a certain place in Idaho or Utah, but a lot of the religions that kind of base in Idaho and Utah, there are a lot of people on the Internet who will be like, “I'm part of this religion and I think you deserve to die.” I'm like, “Okay.” I don't necessarily feel too safe in religious spaces because of those people. GU: That's fair. Is there anything else that you wanted to talk about or add that we didn't cover? AM: I can't think of anything. I'll think of something at midnight tonight, like, “Dang it!” GU: We'd love for you to come back, so if you need anything, you got my email. AM: Cool, cool, cool. GU: Thank you. 11