Community Oral History Claudia Crawford and Claudette Halverson Interviewed by Alyssa Kammerman 2 November 2023 RootsBridge LLC Mission Statement RootsBridge cultivates connection in communities and families through the transformative power of storytelling. Our mission is to compassionately record life histories, honor unique experiences and promote empathy through shared narratives. By encouraging individuals to step into another's shoes, we cultivate deeper bonds between storyteller and hearer. In the communities we serve, we foster a sense of unity and compassion. We are driven by our passion for providing a platform for marginalized voices to ensure that every story is heard and none are diminished. We believe in a community where everyone feels connected and finds a sense of belonging. Project Description The Union Station Centennial oral history project is a companion to the Museums at Union Station’s “Heart of Ogden” exhibit, which commemorates the 100-year anniversary of the opening of the current Union Station building on November 22, 1924. In honor of the centennial anniversary, Ogden City contracted with oral historian Alyssa Kammerman of RootsBridge LLC to collect fifteen oral histories from community members who shared memories associated with the Union Station in Ogden. The interviews encompass the 1930s to the present day, thus documenting the period when Union Station was actively functioning as a train station and its subsequent transformation into a museum and cultural center. Community members interviewed included former railroad employees, Union Station employees, residents of Ogden, city employees, and museum volunteers. The diverse range of interviewees reflects the diversity of Ogden and provides a comprehensive view of Union Station’s impact on the community as a cultural hub and a place of shared history. ~ Oral History Description ~ An oral history is the spoken account of historic events in one’s life from the unique and partial perspective of the narrator. It is a primary source and unique interpretation of one’s lived experience. Rights Management This work is the property of RootsBridge LLC and The Museums at Ogden Union Station. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching, and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text / as long as credit is given to RootsBridge LLC and Ogden Union Station. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Crawford, Claudia, and Claudette Halverson, an oral history by Alyssa Kammerman (RootsBridge LLC), 2 November 2023, Centennial Oral History Project, Museums at Union Station, Ogden, UT. Oral History Interview November 2, 2023 Interviewer: Alyssa Kammerman Interviewees: Claudia Crawford and Claudette Halverson Abstract: This is an oral history interview with Claudia Crawford and her daughter, Claudette Halverson, conducted on November 2, 2023, for the 100 year anniversary of the Ogden Union Station. This interview was conducted at the Crawford Residence in Ogden, Utah, by oral historian Alyssa Kammerman of RootsBridge LLC. During this interview, Claudia Crawford recalls her husband Boyd’s time working as a brakeman for the Union Pacific Railroad. Claudia recalls growing up with Boyd, family life in Ogden, and the challenges of working for the railroad. Claudia also shares Boyd’s love of Ogden history and his historic postcard collection, which he published into the book, History of Ogden, Utah in Old Post Cards. AK: Today is November 2, 2023. I'm at the Crawford Residence, interviewing Claudia Crawford and Claudette Halverson for the Ogden Union Station Centennial exhibit. My name is Alyssa Kammerman, and I'll be conducting the interview. So starting out, I wanted to talk a little bit about your husband, Boyd's, background. I'd like to hear about where he was born and what got him interested in the railroad. CC: Well, he was born on June 1st, 1930, and that’s the same date as Marilyn Monroe's birth date, and Brigham Young, as he liked to say. And in the hospital that's not there anymore on Harrison Boulevard – the Dee hospital. And when 1 of 32 two babies came out - a boy and a girl - his parents were pretty surprised because they were planning on one, and it set a whirlwind in their life, to say the least. His first home was on Binford and his twin sister's name was Roma Joanne after his mother, and he was named Darryl Boyd after his father. I recall him saying that his Dad had to help her a great deal with the family. The oldest brother was just five. Dad would work and make the formula, which had to be mixed just right, or it would curdle and then it would have to be thrown away. AK: Did Boyd grow up in Ogden, then? CC: Yes. I've got a whole list of where he grew up, but the first home was on Binford, and they moved about three times. He lived on Eccles Avenue, and he had a lot of friends. They would ride their bikes around, he says, "My seat was higher because I was the tallest," but he was a regular boy goofing off, and had fun with his friends. When he was six, his older brother Ralph taught him to ski, and Ralph was a good skier. Boyd loved skiing. His reflexes weren't very good, and he drove the truck up the street when I was gone. And I said, "Now, Boyd, if we have an accident, they'll take everything we got." And so I said, "We can go and get an identification card." And so we went out to the driver's license and got him an I.D. card, and he would tell his friends it was easier to give up his driver's license than his skiing. And he skied until he was 80. AK: How old was he when you got his driver's license? CH: He was 16. AK: Okay. 2 of 32 CC: And he always liked Ogden. He always worked hard. His first job was selling the Standard Examiner and magazines. And then he went on to work for the Ogden Dairy when he was 13. And he had to do some of the delivery from the Ogden Dairy Company and worked in there mixing stuff. I thought it was interesting that they let him drive their truck. And he read the light meters for Ogden City. He taught school for 28 years. He worked at the college, and they gave him credit for that in his retirement, so he was more or less with them for 30 years. He went to BYU after Weber College. He graduated and went to BYU and graduated from Utah State with a Business Administration certificate. AK: Okay. So I'm going to back up a tiny bit. So how many siblings did he have growing up? CC: Just the three of them. The twins, and his older brother. AK: Okay. And was he pretty close to his twin sister growing up? CC: You know, he said that he never fought with Joanne. They always got along, and she was a wonderful lady. But he did say in his biography that when they started school, they put them in the same class, and he thought that was a mistake. And his mother would say, "Do you have any homework?" And he'd say, "No." And Joanne says, "Yes, you do." But yeah, they all… And then during the summers he would go out to Lost Creek, and their next door neighbors, the Etcheberrys, had a sheep ranch. And so he would help with the sheep ranch and they had to bathe in the stream, and he said it was kind of cold, but he loved the sourdough bread that she would make. AK: He sounds like he was a busy kid. When was his first job? Was it the one at 13? 3 of 32 CC: No, he had a paper route when he was... I'm not sure exactly what age, but he was very young. Very young. AK: And did he get all those jobs because he had to work, or because he wanted to work? CC: Well, I think he liked to buy and save money. He loved cars. He always wanted to have a nice car. This one up there [pointing to a picture], the yellow Cadillac, is what we... He said he married me because my hair matched the yellow Cadillac. I used bottled sunshine at that time. But he had the boat and he pulled that when we were on our honeymoon, actually. AK: So tell me, how did you two meet? CC: Well, I was taking the cosmetology class at Weber College in the technical building, and my instructor, Ms. Clark, would have me take the cash they took in from the customers over to the cashier of Weber College, and Boyd was the cashier. And so I don't know how he found out what my name was, but he said, "I have a key that belongs to your brother Ned. Could you show me where he lives?" Which was interesting inasmuch as he'd been reading meters everywhere around, but he needed me to show him where he lived. He and Ned and my other brothers and their friends would – I grew up just up at 1750 29th Street, up the street – and they would work on cars. And actually they were born the same year – my brother, Ned, and Boyd. So we took the key out to Ned and then the rest is all history. We just kept going. CH: So they met at Weber. CC: Yeah. 4 of 32 AK: That's so fantastic. So I'm curious what the rest of that story is. Did he ask you out on a date that same day? CC: No, but he... one thing I have to say: on our first date we went to Maddox. We had fried chicken. And when I got home, I thanked him a lot. And he said he had never had anybody so appreciative and said thank you to him on a date. And we just kept going together. And then when he asked me to marry him, we drove up to Logan and he had the ring and everything and asked me. He had it in a crackerjack box [laughs]. And he asked me at the Logan Temple, actually, and that's where we got married on August 7th, 1959. AK: What were you studying at Weber College? CC: Oh, I have my little beauty shop just in there [points behind her], but I did work in Sugarhouse for a while after I graduated, and I worked at LR Samuels, and it's not here anymore. And then the shop was at 400 on 40th Street in South Ogden. And then when I was expecting Claudette, I quit. And we have four children: Claudette, John, Charlotte, and James. And when James was about four, I would take him to a friend that had a daycare or nursery or whatever, preschool. And so I opened my shop up here, and I worked for almost 48 years from beginning to end. AK: That is so cool. How did you advertise? CC: I didn't. AK: Okay. Word of mouth? CC: Well, actually, when they would come and inspect my shop, they said they wanted me to put a sign out because I had a business and I said, "No, I don't 5 of 32 want people to know I'm here and maybe come in and want to get the cash or whatever." CH: She kept busy though. CC: Yeah. Sometimes it was long days – from 6 am to 6 pm. AK: That's amazing. So what was your typical work week like? Was it every day 6 to 6? CC: No, I just worked Thursday and Friday. AK: Which is still very busy with your husband gone on the railroad and everything. CC: Well, he wasn't railroading yet. AK: Okay. CC: Yeah, that was after. AK: Okay. So you did your cosmetology towards the beginning of your marriage and when your kids were young? CC: I worked in Salt Lake at the Salon of Switzerland on 21st South and Sugarhouse. And then I worked at LR Samuels. And then a fella there was going to open up a beauty shop – the 700 Beauty Shop, is what he called it. So I went out there because it was too tempting to buy stuff, going through the store. AK: [laughs] Yes, I do understand that. That's interesting. So I am also curious: you kept mentioning earlier that Boyd would read the light meters in Ogden. What was that? I haven't heard of that. CC: Well, the electric CH: It's more like for people's electric bills. CC: Yeah. The meters. 6 of 32 CH: He was a meter reader, yeah. Just determined what their electric bill would be each month. AK: Oh, fascinating. Was that for Utah Power and Light? CC: Yeah. I guess it was. And then he worked for the city just doing a regular level work job, maintenance and stuff too. AK: So he was very busy. As he was growing up, did he ever have an interest in working for the railroads? CC: Not really. When he was probably in his 20s, he actually worked for a short time on the railroad, and then he quit to finish his schooling. And he also was in the Army, so he actually started in 1962 with the railroad. CH: Yeah. Worked more for it. CC: Yeah. His father knew someone high in the office and wanted to know if he could get Boyd on. We wanted to pay for our house, and I called it the gravy train because he made more money working for the railroad than he did when he was teaching school. So that really was the motivation. And it really did literally help us pay for our home, which we were grateful for. But it came to the point where he had to make a decision, the train master said. Which I thought was a little interesting because there were doctors, lawyers, engine chiefs, that worked on the railroad. But Boyd would have to lay off for a while until the holidays. But he worked through the summers. And we... Claudette, remember? What did you say about the telephone? CH: Oh, upstairs in the kitchen there's a yellow phone with a spiral cord. And he'd sit in his chair and wait for the phone to ring to see when he was going to be called 7 of 32 out. Because we didn't have cell phones back then, so you had to sit by the phone and see if you were going out. CC: Uh-huh. One time we went out to Bear Lake and were all excited. Of course, there weren't cell phones then, so he had to call. And he was so far out from being called on the Extra Board to cover for somebody that was laid off. We had to come home. So it was a little bit hard. I just didn't ever count on anything because I knew it could change. And one of the things when we were expecting our daughter, Charlotte, I got up because I thought, "Oh, I think we're going to have our baby." And I didn't say anything. I didn't want to wake him up when I came down the stairs to get the suitcase to take my stuff to the hospital. And I heard the phone ringing and I knew. And so Boyd accepted the call. Well, he called right back. I said, "I think Charlotte's going to be coming." And he called back, and the train master says, "No, send her in a taxi." And so I drove myself to the hospital, and Boyd went out, and it was a work train call that time. So that meant he would take all day. But Charlotte came, and it was interesting. I've said she was the one that would always just run to Daddy when he came home from the railroad, it was cute. But that was one of the experiences of being on the Extra Board, you know? AK: Oh, my goodness. Did you have family close by who could go be with you? CC: Well, my mother went down with me. AK: That's good. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, that would be really rough. So just backing up a little bit, you said that he worked for the railroad for a short time when he was in his 20s. What was that job? 8 of 32 CC: He just worked out in Carlin, Nevada – and I'm not sure yet what it was. I reckon he hasn't mentioned that, but I know that was one of the reasons why they let him come back because he had had previous experience. But it was quite a... Brakeman was more than I realized. They would signal when to slow down and when to start up. And the passenger trains had the right of way, so if he was on a freight train as a brakeman, then they'd have to go in the siding. And so he'd have to see that the switch was turned right, so that it would go on the track and get out of the way of the passenger train or it would not be a good thing and could crash. And then he would signal, and he'd help the conductor and they would have to put cars to pick up more cars from the siding. So they had signals to back up and stop. And then he said he would look for sparks from the train wheels, too. And sometimes he said the hardest part was to stay awake. They only were allowed so many hours on the train, and he would be called actually to go out on a train and take over because it took them sometimes too long to get to Carlin. So he would cover for that brakeman. They'd say they 'died on the road' was the term. And so he would have to go out and he called that 'dead head' and went out. And that's just what they call it. CH: Cause they only let the shift be so long so it's a complete journey, basically. AK: Interesting. Okay. So when he would signal to the conductor, would he be like... CC: Pass it on to the engineer. And sometimes it was straight to the engineer. He'd have to walk along the top, too, and check and see that things were right. I thought that would be a little bit scary, but he had a walk on the top of the train too. 9 of 32 CH: Would he be on the ground, also? CC: Oh yeah. And then when they were picking up another car or boxcar or something, he had the signal to have them close in. And one of his friends actually got crushed in this coupling, putting it together, so that was kind of scary. AK: That is scary. Did they have any kinds of, like, special shoes to help them stay gripped pretty well on top of those trains? CC: No, he just had a good, sturdy black shoe. AK: That's crazy. Do you know if he had to go through any kind of safety training and such? CC: You know, I really don't know. I think it was just learning on the job. AK: And so I'm curious, how would he do the signals? With his arm? Or did he have a lamp? CC: Yeah. [Holds up a lamp] This is the actual one that he had. [Starts making the signals] And this was to, I think, slow down, or stop. I don't know. CH: So there were different signals they used with the lantern. CC: And then they'd swing it around, I think, to come back or something. I don't know. Somebody will probably correct that [laughs]. AK: That's amazing that you still have that. That's so cool. And how long did he work as brakeman for? CC: Well, it was 12 to 13 years, if we count the prior time. And our son, James, was born, of course, when he was working. And as he got older, we would go out to 20th Street and meet up with him and wave to his daddy. AK: How long would he be gone at a time? 10 of 32 CC: I think it was about 24 hours, because he would sleep in Carlin, Nevada, and then come back. But the work train out on the trestle was just for the day. Then they'd come back. AK: The trestle over the Great Salt Lake? CC: Yes, the Great Salt Lake trestle. Yeah. AK: That's really cool. So you mentioned that he would work mostly during holidays and summertime. Was there any kind of regularity to how often he would be called out, or was he completely on-call? CC: Well, he hated that he was on call, but he'd have to have a certain amount of time to rest – 12 hours or something, but he had to be fully rested. But you just didn't know when he'd get a call. It was one of the things. And he would lose the job if he missed the call, and that wasn't an option. AK: So did his dad work for the railroad as well? CC: No, he was a professional man. He worked for Anderson Glover and was on the board for the bank. AK: And he just knew the right people to help get Boyd hired? CC: That's right. It's not always what you know, it's who you know, I guess. AK: That is true. So while he was gone, did you have any kind of help from family members at all? Or did you have to juggle the kids and everything by yourself? CC: They were good kids. There was no problem that way. One thing, when he did come home, he would have to sleep, and I'll have to say that, I would tell the children they couldn't run and whatever, so Dad could sleep. And then I'd take 11 of 32 them up to the cabin in Island Park for a good month so that Dad could just sleep and work and sleep and work. CH: Usually in what, August? CC: Yeah, mostly in August. AK: That's really fun. So there's a picture of his brakeman's uniform right there. CC: This was on display at the Union Station, and his postcards are there now. And they're blown up to big pictures. I could show you one. Took postcards and they're in the museum now. And he also had his display case of all the postcards, and they were mostly of the railroad, to connect with that. AK: Was he collecting the postcards at the same time that he was working for the railroad? CC: No, no. This is him here in that outfit. Yeah, that's a little bit pixelated to enlarge it. AK: That's a great picture though. I was going to ask you, what was his team like? Did he have a team of brakemen that he would work with or was it just him? CC: It would vary; it was never the same people, of course, off and on, and you get some of the same engineers or something. But no, he got along with them. He was kind of a people person and it was really hard to want to just stay home, you know, after that 24 hours of fresh air. So it was a sacrifice in a lot of ways on his part and on the family's to not have him here. But it was worth it. And one time, he actually came home with a clock that's hanging in our stairway from some place down in Carlin. And so he's always kind of collected. And I just noticed there was a little lead soldier he had. You know, the Army, he really felt that 12 of 32 everybody should serve to preserve our freedoms. And he died on July 4th in 2017. And as he passed away, the F-35 flew over our house. And I thought that was very fitting because he was a very patriotic fellow. So we remember that day. AK: What did he do for the Army? CC: He was with the Big Red One and that's his helmet. And he said that was a good target [laughs]. But just as he entered the Korean conflict, the war ended. But they still had to go out on the Big Red One. He was a medic and he worked in the hospital in San Francisco, and then he had his own little office or something. He was in Germany for part of the time, and when he was there, he was the first American on the ski patrol in Garmisch. And of course, he got to train them. He was the youngest on the ski patrol here at Snowbasin at 17 years old. So he had that training and then he helped train other patrolmen over there in Garmisch. AK: That's amazing. So did he get medical training before he joined the Army or did he learn it all during his service? CC: Yeah, well, I don't know. Is there a picture of him with his? Oh, this is it here. Yes. I went with him on... CH: The ski patrol over there in Europe. CC: And this article is telling about his time doing the ski patrol in Europe. CH: So it was in the paper. AK: That's amazing. How old was he when he did the ski patrol in Europe? CH: Well, this says 1953, so he was around 23. CC: He was a sergeant. U.S. Army Medical Corps Infantry Division, Big Red One, Aschaffenburg, Germany, 1953 to 1955, Korean War conflict. 13 of 32 AK: Did he serve outside of the Korean War, or was it just for the Korean War that he served? CC: Well, he was in the Reserves and they opened it up so that they could go in with their status. And he was a sergeant, which was really not an asset to him when he was in basic training because he had more seniority than the guy that was doing the training on them. And, boy, he said it was just not enjoyable. One of the things; he was Mr. Clean, and of course you shower and you're all cleaned up and then you go and you have to crawl through the sand and stuff. And for the rest of the day you were itchin' and whatever. So, no, he didn't like that. AK: So he had joined the Reserves before the Korean conflict broke out? Is that what I'm understanding? CC: Yeah. AK: And how old was he when he joined up? Was it right after high school? CC: No. No, he was older. He would have been probably in his mid-twenties. AK: So he's in the Reserves for a while, and then he got called up to go out to Germany? CC: Yeah, 'cause he could go in with the rank of sergeant, which was more pay. And it's so wonderful during their basic training. AK: So, going back a little, what did he study in college? CC: Well, he got his associate degree at Weber College in Education. And he got his Business Administration, and he could have been a principal, but he really enjoyed teaching. He liked to be called an educator because he always felt people didn't have much respect for school teachers. He really enjoyed the kids, 14 of 32 but he was glad to get out in June and then start up in the Fall again. And they would take field trips. And he got to take them down to Park City and he got a kick out of that because he was a good skier, and they, "Mr. Crawford?" But yeah, he really did enjoy the kids. CH: And what did he teach? CC: Well, for most of the time it was business classes, typing, and he taught math. And when there was a shortage, he taught history and math. And he said, "I probably learned more than the students did." CH: And he taught locally. CC: Yeah, he taught at Highland Junior High. CH: And at Turner Middle School. CC: In fact, the school wasn't even built. When they started, he was on the first faculty and they went to Ben Lomond for the first year. One of his students would say to him, "Mr. Crawford, you were really strict, but you were fair." AK: That's a good compliment. CC: It was. He really expected them to get their work done. He knew they wouldn't do their homework, probably, if they went home. So he left time for them to do that homework. And also for the ski patrol; there was somebody that ended up being a Major or something in the service, and he wrote a letter to the editor saying that Mr. Crawford made a big difference because people took him up to the Snowbasin ski slopes when he got injured and safely, and so he paid him a compliment there. And I'd go downtown or he would go someplace. "Oh, Mr. Crawford," and it was fun. It was fun. He would get stopped all the time. And then 15 of 32 later in life, when he was “retired,” I guess you would say, he really would see people and they would bring back stories and memories of their time with him in school. And I think it helped him also that he was a people person, and lived in Ogden all his life that he was able to collect the post cards because people would give them to him or he bought a lot of them for his book. AK: So yeah, I was actually going to ask about that. So what was the beginning of the postcard collection? It sounds like he had quite the collection. CC: Well, when we'd go on trips, he'd always send a postcard. They take the best picture of the area. So we would buy postcards instead of sometimes takin' just pictures. And one time when we were on a trip up in Pendleton, Oregon, we went out to a bookstore and we were just looking around. And Boyd saw this book that they had postcards that they had taken and compiled, and so that's where he got the idea. But in order to publish this, he got the idea from school yearbooks to sell ads. And so he sold ads to get the money, because we didn't have the money to do that. And that's the way he paid for it. And it, it was hard. At the last, he was doubting. He didn't think he could go out and get it. But he has a lot of sponsors that also helped him. Like I say, that Union Station must have given him money, too. But it helped that he knew people in town, and so they could have just contributed. There's a list of them in here. And whenever we'd go, we always hit the antique stores, and so he'd go and look for postcards. He's got albums after albums of postcards out in our garage. In fact, I bet it was within a week before he passed away, he said, "What am I going to do with all my skis?" And I said, "I think it's going to be up to me." 16 of 32 And there are a lot of skis out there. And he always had friends say, "You need to put them in a museum." And just as much as just two years ago, this young man was one of several that said, "I'll find a place for that." Hasn't happened. So any of you out there that has a museum, we've got some skis. He's got “barrel skis,” they call them, and it was literally made from wood barrels. And then he's got some ones that were handmade. And then he has his own little business card, and he... I've got pictures there. He had the display in Union Station. Then he would go to banks and schools and scout-a-ramas, and he had all these skis on display. And he also had a slide show presentation that he would lecture at civic things or women's clubs, the Sons of the Pioneers. And so he had that before he did the book, too. He just was an Ogdenite to the core. AK: So did the ski collection consist of skis that he had used over the years? Or did he collect historic skis? CC: Well he just would pick up some. One funny story was we were traveling up in Idaho, and there were these skis that were handmade. And so we were sleeping overnight, and I don't think he slept because in the morning he says, "I'm going to go back and get those skis." I didn't know whether he wanted to spend that much money, but he did. And so he asked where they came from. Ogden, Utah. And we were in Idaho. But yeah, he had what was called the Evolution of Skiing display. And like I say, he just wanted to share. So he took it to Salt Lake and different things. His postcards were just mainly at the museum. AK: So did he take your whole family skiing while your kids were all growing up? CC: Yes 17 of 32 AK: That's fun. Did he teach you how to ski? CC: Yes. But then he decided that his... Because I was afraid. It took me all day to ski down Becker at Snowbasin, because I'd go over to the one side and I'd wait for a while to make sure no one was coming. And then it took me all day. CH: There's a cute picture of them right there of them skiing. CC: Yeah, that was our 50th anniversary announcement. He planned the whole thing. I didn't do anything. He planned to use the gondola to go out to the Needles restaurant. And some of my friends said they wouldn't have gone on that gondola if it hadn't been that they liked us because they were afraid of that. But yeah, that's on his Olympic uniform. AK: Oh. Tell me about his involvement in the Olympics. I'm curious about that. CC: Well, he was where they did their jumps and the bobsleigh, and boy, he had to leave here by 2:30 in the morning to get out to Park City. He was at Olympic Park, and that was a big highlight for him, you know. AK: So he was kind of a ski patrol up there for them too? CC: No, no. He just did mag and bag sometimes. You know, it's when they were worried about people bombing or whatever craziness. So they had to check people's bags. And then other times he'd keep people back when they were doing the ski jumps and that. AK: That's cool. I bet he was excited to be a part of that. CC: Yeah. He didn't know whether he wanted to, and I said, "Oh Boyd, go for it." They really wanted to station him up at Snowbasin. And he says, "No, I've skied there 18 of 32 all my life. I want to go someplace else." And this fellow who happened to be his doctor in Salt Lake got it switched so that he could go to Olympic Park. AK: So cool. That's awesome. So did Boyd have any involvement in developing the Union Station museums? CC: Actually, I don't know that he did have any involvement in the development. He just had his cards there on display. He had two big display cases and then they asked him to put his skis on display, yeah. CH: And his uniform. CC: Yeah, the uniform. They had that, yeah. But it makes me happy to see that they have kept the postcards that are enlarged, 'cause he has a large collection of the trains and the trestle and that. AK: So tell me about his process for writing the book. He had all these postcards. Did he research some of them, or did he mostly scan them in? CC: Well, there was a professor over at the college that helped, edited it for him and just told him about the different buildings that were there. And Boyd always liked to read on the back of the postcard what people would comment about Ogden. And that's one of the reasons he liked to collect them. He said he had just about every card or, you know, [holds up paper] this is some of them. Train out on the trestle and stuff, yeah. AK: That's amazing. What were some of his oldest cards? CC: Oh, my goodness. There's the Union Station there. You know, the original Union Station burnt down. You probably knew that. Well, he would say if there were people like him that collected the history of Ogden that it would go to the grave. 19 of 32 And there have been some good books. Richard Roberts wrote a nice book, and he is the one that helped edit this. And people would call him a packrat. And I got him a sign: "I'm not a pack rat. I'm a selective hoarder." People like us, they tell the history of our lives. And yeah, I don't know. He's just always liked to collect since he was a little boy. AK: How long did it take him to get that book published? CC: Pretty much a year, by the time he got those ads. And it was really hard at the last; he just almost thought, "I don't know if this is worth it." And I don't know if he thought that necessarily, but it did take a lot of get-up-and-go to solicit. But the people were good and they were happy to help. And it's kind of fun because that's got its own history, too, because some of the businesses aren't there anymore. One thing that was really nice, there was a picture in his book that I compiled of him with Mayor Godfrey. They put one of his books in the time capsule, at the City and County building. So he had it there. AK: That's amazing. So you said that there were some challenges towards the end. What were some of the things that he was running into? CH: Mostly financing. CC: Financing, yeah. AK: Who was it that was helping him at Weber State? CC: Richard Roberts went through and kind of edited it. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what he calls him here. Richard Roberts. CH: Oh, yeah. [Reading from credits in the book] "Professor of history at Weber for providing historical background in the book." 20 of 32 AK: Very cool. Do they still sell those? I’m interested. CH: [To Claudia] Do you have any left? CC: Well, I have one that I'm going to give to you. AK: Oh, thank you so much. CH: It went into a second printing. CC: Yes, the original, I've got one over there. That's the second printing. AK: Oh, my goodness, thank you. Oh, and this one's autographed too. CH: Yeah, by her [Claudia]. CC: Yeah. AK: Oh, to me. Thank you! CC: He'd have a book signing up at Rainbow Gardens one time. And he gave a lot of books to the Union Station to sell. I think they sold for under $15, and there's a list of his history of all the places in town. CH: Nature Center. CC: Yeah, Ogden Blue, and I don't know, a lot of places. And they gave 300 books or something to the Daughters of the Pioneers for them to sell. But they were in a lot more places than I thought they were to sell. And people really gave them as gifts to their friends that had lived here, and so it really preserved the history. AK: That is so cool. Did you guys get to see the proceeds from any of those sales then? CH: Did you? No. I really don't remember us going on a special trip or anything [laughs]. CC: So minimal. I mean, you know, just kind of went into... 21 of 32 CH: It was more of a hobby. CC: Yeah. AK: But it got printed twice, which is awesome. That's amazing. Who printed them? CH: Oh, I can't think of the name. CC: Was it Ogden? Empire? Does it say on the book? AK: I can check. Let's see, was it Standard Examiner or is that just an advertisement? CH: No, that's just an ad. AK: Oh, Maury Grimm Publishing, okay. On 2641 Van Buren Avenue. CC: Yeah, but then there was another one... AK: Keenara Graphics Inc. for printing and cover designs. This is so cool. Thank you for this. I'm so excited to read through it. CC: Well, you're welcome. I think he'd want you to have it. AK: Thank you so much. CC: I wish he was here telling the story himself. It'd been easier. AK: I would have loved to meet him, too. CC: [Grabs a book off camera] This is the first one. AK: Oh, wow, okay. CC: Oh, it was Meridian Press who did the first one. They were local. Andy Brunetti had that. AK: Okay, very cool. A little bit different cover and everything, too. Interesting. So, let's see, I'm trying to think. Are there any other stories that you'd like to share about Boyd’s time on the railroad or interest in the railroad at all? 22 of 32 CC: One of the exciting things was when he was out on the railroad and he was called to go on a passenger train and some of the big officials from the railroad, from San Francisco, were on that train. So he got to meet them and he thought that was really special. AK: For the most part, he was on freight trains rather than passenger trains? CC: Well, yeah, he was. This uniform was for the freight train, and then he just worked in overalls when he was on the work train. And one of the difficult things when he was on the work train and on the trestle, he called them the brine flies. Oh, they would bite. It was so miserable. But, you know, that made it a challenge, and he enjoyed it. AK: Tell me, when you say work train, what do you mean by that, exactly? CC: Well, they go out and I guess they would replace some of the ties or whatever out on the trestle. That was the work train. AK: Okay, that makes sense. Repair train. CC: Yeah. AK: [To Claudette] Do you have any memories of what the Union Station was like growing up? CH: No. Sorry. AK: No, you're good. CH: We had a dance there when I was in high school. CC: Yeah, That was fun. Yeah. They had their prom there at the Union Station. AK: Yeah, That is really cool. Because when you were in high school, at that point, it was mostly just a community center, I guess. 23 of 32 CH: Yeah. AK: How about you, Claudia? Did you ever go to the Union Station growing up, or have memories there? CC: Oh yeah. It was a busy, busy place. And my brothers left on a mission for our church from there. And they went down in the tunnel, I guess they called it. And it was fun. I just thought it was a beautiful building. I liked the paintings by the ceilings, and the benches would be full of people coming and going. It was busy. We were the hub of the train system in this area for sure. AK: Some people talk about how Ogden was more diverse and had a lot more people during the time that the Union Station was up and running. Do you remember any differences in Ogden between then and now? CC: Well, I just know that I didn't go. I was kind of a shy violet, but we didn't do a lot of traveling as parents. The first time, which was helpful being he worked for the railroad, I rode the train with him down to San Francisco when she was just nine months old, and that was really special. I hadn't gone on a train ride, so. But, you know, it's kind of sad that we don't have the passenger trains going in and out of our Union Station anymore. But I'm grateful that there are people that want to keep it preserved. I really am. And actually, out in front of the Union Station, there's these blocks that have people's names on them. I bought one and put our family's names on it. I think we maybe even bought two. CH: Yeah, there's a couple. AK: Was Boyd a part of any of the railroader clubs, like social clubs that they would have at the time? 24 of 32 CC: No AK: Okay. So when you were growing up, you were living on 29th Street here? CC: Just three houses up. AK: Did you know a lot of people who worked on the railroad? Did they live in this area, too? CC: Well, I have a friend from the time before Claudette was born; we've been friends and her husband was an engineer. His name is Daryl Firth, but he's, I mean, there are some that Boyd knew prior, but I don't really remember them. AK: Yeah, that's okay. I’ve been told that those who worked full time for the railroad could take their families on the trains for free. Did you guys have that advantage? CC: We maybe could have, but we never did. We did take them on the train ride over to Denver because Boyd wanted them to have an experience on that. Then we flew back on an airplane. So they had both experiences, but it went too fast. James says, "Are we already home?" AK: That is so fun. Just out of curiosity, what are these two pillows back here? It looks like they’re made of sweaters. CC: Oh, you'll laugh. Well, since he was a member of the National Ski Patrol and if anybody saw that number, it was really low because they hadn’t seen one that low, so. CH: That was his ski patrol number. CC: Yeah, the number. And then, on the other side is the sweater he would wear to advertise his “Evolution of Skiing” exhibit. CH: So this is what his business card looks like, too. 25 of 32 AK: Oh, that's awesome. [Reading] “Wanted: old ski equipment.” I like that. CC: I made this for my kids one year so that they could have their dad's vest. CH: Yeah. So those were at one time his vest, and she made them into pillows. CC: It was a little bit, I thought, “Oh, Boyd, wear the billboard on your back," [laughs]. And it worked. AK: So you said that that number is low. What did you mean? CH: That's his national ski patrol number. AK: Okay. And so he was number 2051; You said it was low because now there's so many more people who have been in Ski Patrol? CC: Right. He had a hat that he'd wear up to Snowbasin when he wasn't skiing anymore, and some of them would come over and say, "Oh, that's sort of a low number." Yeah, it's his. This made me come back in time and think of all that he's accomplished. He got the humanitarian award, I think it was called, for the State of Utah. He had several times he was interviewed by the Standard Examiner and they had him and there was a whole story about him: 72 years of collecting. And like I said, I'm glad that he set a good example for my kids of service, and really lived life to the fullest. He really did. He wasn't ever sitting around until he got too old to maybe do much. AK: Yeah. Sounds like a very busy guy. Well, I think that’s all the questions I have for you, unless there's any other stories that you think would be important to cover about Boyd. CH: I think you did good. 26 of 32 CC: Well, I don't like to read all my notes. I've been writing notes since you called, but, no, I think that's pretty well, yeah. AK: Yeah, it's always so hard to keep the interview within an hour and a half – which we did – but I wanted to make sure I didn't skip over anything that you felt would be important for the project, at least, so. CC: Well, I'll say, on our way home from our honeymoon, we took this boat that was the same color as his yellow Cadillac. And we didn't put the boat in one time. The weather was too windy. It was only a small 22-footer wood boat. And so we didn't get to put it in. And I would trade off and drive some of the time. And when we got into Montana area and I wanted to tent, we took an Army tent on our honeymoon to save money, and Glacier National Park was the first time we slept in it. And guess what? It rained. And so then the next night we had this stinky Army tent spread out to dry in the motel. But it did save us money. But I was driving as we were coming into Montana, Wyoming, and I wanted to tent out one more time. And I didn't want to wake him up, and then I thought also, my dad would say, you were that close to the cabin and you tented out. But yeah, it's a good thing I kept going because that night in the cabin, it was the earthquake, on the 15th of August in Yellowstone. And that earthquake was at Hebgen Lake, and it took me years to ever want to go up. I had three children before I went and I've got a picture of us and where the road went down. And there were 15 couples, I think, from Ogden, the Painters and that, that were killed. CH: So if they would have stayed there, they could have been killed. 27 of 32 CC: I wouldn't be doing this video. Yeah. And it was kind of funny that it was kind of tradition. You made Jell-O and I put it in the pantry in the hallway, and when I came in the hall, it was red Jell-O all over. The cabin did shake a little bit, and this is kind of silly, but, yeah, we always opened the door on the basement of the cabin so that it could air out. It was just kind of like a root cellar. And we woke up – it was about a quarter to 10:00 when I think it hit – and Boyd said, "There is a moose in the basement!" because it was just shakin'. And the neighbors, I could see their light. We had the Stimpsons that owned Stimpson Market in Ogden; they had a cabin by us and I yelled over to them and they came over and they said, "This is an earthquake, Claudia." And Boyd wanted to leave. He was ready to get out of there. But we stayed. But my parents didn't know where we were, so they were concerned. But actually, when we drove into the cabin, it was so peaceful. I said, "See why I like this?" And I realized, someone said it was so quiet because the animals know, and so there wasn't even a bird singing or squirrels chirping because they knew there was going to be an earthquake. AK: That's very ominous. Oh, my goodness. Wow. So there was a big split out in front of your cabin? CC: No, no, it was at Hebgen Lake. CH: Up where they would have been. CC: Where I wanted to camp out one more night. CH: And instead, she drove to Island Park. CC: But that's when Hebgen Lake was formed. You know, they were all calling it “Quake Lake.” 28 of 32 AK: Wow. That is quite the way to end your honeymoon. CC: Yeah, it really was a shock to see where the road went down. AK: One thing that I think would be kind of fun to record is, what was your impression of Boyd when you first met him? What was he like? CC: I got fooled. I thought he had an olive complexion, but he'd skied so much that he had a tan. Well, tall, dark and handsome. But he had his education, pretty much. He had a little bit more to do to graduate from Utah State. CH: I'll show that picture. CC: But anyway, I thought, "Well, it would be a good idea to marry somebody that already had their education." CH: This is when he was on the national ski patrol. Like she said, tall, dark, and handsome. AK: He was. Look at that. Like a movie star. That's a great picture. Was he a pretty outgoing guy at that time, too? CC: Oh, yes. But he was appreciative, too. He was appreciative of what I would do for him. But he really was a self-made guy. In fact, he always dressed very nice, and it was really quite a change when the dress code changed when he was teaching. And the girls would wear, well, first they would wear short skirts, you know, and he was always afraid that somebody would say something. "Mr. Crawford, this or that?" Because he had a friend that had to leave town because of something some young lady said. So he put his desk at the back of the room so he didn't have to look at these bare legs. But then when they started wearing Levi's, he just, he finally broke down and started wearing them, too. He used to 29 of 32 wear slacks all the time and a nice work shirt. But he would have me press his jeans so they'd look nice. And people would say to him, because he did dress nice, and somebody asked him, "Are you a banker, Mr. Crawford?" And he says, "No, I wish I had the money that people think I have." But, no, we didn't go without anything, but we didn't live high. AK: Sounds like you worked hard, both of you. Claudette, do you have any memories of your dad working on the railroad that you wanted to share? CH: You know, honestly, because I was young, I just remember him being gone on the weekends a lot and those summertime gone and waiting by the phone to get the call. AK: Did he wait there all day, or did he have certain times? CH: He'd sit there at the kitchen table. CC: And I don't really remember that, but I know that we had to be where we could hear the phone ring. He had a bell put out so that we could hear it outside when the phone rang, too. AK: That's clever. And you were living in this house the whole time, then? CC: Yes, actually. CH: They built it. CC: So, he was the main contractor, I guess you'd call, and had schoolteachers. Actually, my algebra teacher, Mr. Child, helped build this house. Yeah, we did it. I even hammered a few nails myself, and Boyd actually finished up the basement. AK: That's amazing. Did you guys design the house and everything, too? 30 of 32 CC: Actually, I did. And I guess I was a lazy homemaker, but everything's on the main floor. The washer and dryer, too. They told me it wouldn't be good 'cause it would go out of balance, and it did, in those days, you know, 1960. But it served us well. AK: It's always amazing to me when people build their own homes because it's not common anymore. So that's incredible. Did you have to bring on architects or contractors to help make sure that it was all structurally sound? CC: Well, I designed it, but then we had a regular... I don't know that he was an architect, but a designer, and he put it to size, the rooms and that. I just put where I wanted things because we didn't have the property to the east, so it had to be built out this way. This side lot was 75 ft wide. My dad did the stonework. CH: Throughout the home. CC: And the one upstairs, a fireplace, and then slate in the front entrance and in my dining room and then the chimney outside. CH: Wanna tell his name? CC: Claude Malan. He had the Stone and Marble Works and he actually did the stone in front of Weber State University, except the last three columns where it has its name. They didn't plan on it being a university, but they did plan it to be Weber State College, but then it went to a university. CH: So all those pillars that look like that on Harrison, that's him. That's her dad. CC: Yeah. My dad did the Weber State University marquee, but they don't have it lit up any more on the university's property. Yeah, south end. And he built homes. There was a street named Malan Avenue. We've got a mountain named after my ancestors, Malan Heights. 31 of 32 AK: What? I did not know about all of this. That's amazing. CH: So we're adding a little more than you wanted [laughs]. AK: No, I'm glad that you are. That's fantastic. CH: I'm a sucker for talking about the house. AK: That's some good Ogden history too, honestly. CC: Oh, he built a lot of homes on Malan Avenue, just about three blocks down. AK: So, you built this pretty soon after you got married, then? CC: Yes, within a year we started building. And, boy, we saved our money. Well, we thought we were pretty lucky. We put $5,000 down, and when I think of what homes sell for now... One of the first homes that Dad built on Malan Avenue just sold for over $500,000. And it is small. It's the smallest lot. I just can't believe it. AK: It is crazy how much more expensive things are now. Well thank you so much, Claudia and Claudette, for letting me meet with you today. I really appreciate it and enjoyed getting to know you both. 32 of 32