Community Oral History Arlene Anderson Interviewed by Alyssa Kammerman 4 October 2023 RootsBridge LLC Mission Statement RootsBridge cultivates connection in communities and families through the transformative power of storytelling. Our mission is to compassionately record life histories, honor unique experiences and promote empathy through shared narratives. By encouraging individuals to step into another's shoes, we cultivate deeper bonds between storyteller and hearer. In the communities we serve, we foster a sense of unity and compassion. We are driven by our passion for providing a platform for marginalized voices to ensure that every story is heard and none are diminished. We believe in a community where everyone feels connected and finds a sense of belonging. Project Description The Union Station Centennial oral history project is a companion to the Museums at Union Station’s “Heart of Ogden” exhibit, which commemorates the 100-year anniversary of the opening of the current Union Station building on November 22, 1924. In honor of the centennial anniversary, Ogden City contracted with oral historian Alyssa Kammerman of RootsBridge LLC to collect fifteen oral histories from community members who shared memories associated with the Union Station in Ogden. The interviews encompass the 1930s to the present day, thus documenting the period when Union Station was actively functioning as a train station and its subsequent transformation into a museum and cultural center. Community members interviewed included former railroad employees, Union Station employees, residents of Ogden, city employees, and museum volunteers. The diverse range of interviewees reflects the diversity of Ogden and provides a comprehensive view of Union Station’s impact on the community as a cultural hub and a place of shared history. ~ Oral History Description ~ An oral history is the spoken account of historic events in one’s life from the unique and partial perspective of the narrator. It is a primary source and unique interpretation of one’s lived experience. Rights Management This work is the property of RootsBridge LLC and The Museums at Ogden Union Station. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching, and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text / as long as credit is given to RootsBridge LLC and Ogden Union Station. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Anderson, Arlene, an oral history by Alyssa Kammerman (RootsBridge LLC), 4 October 2023, Centennial Oral History Project, Museums at Union Station, Ogden, UT. ‭Oral History Interview October 4, 2023‬ ‭Interviewer: Alyssa Kammerman‬ ‭Interviewee: Arlene Anderson‬ ‭Abstract:‬‭This‬‭is‬‭an‬‭Oral‬‭History‬‭Interview‬‭with‬‭Arlene‬‭Anderson,‬‭conducted‬‭October‬‭4,‬ ‭2023,‬ ‭for‬ ‭the‬ ‭100‬ ‭year‬ ‭anniversary‬ ‭of‬ ‭the‬ ‭Ogden‬ ‭Union‬ ‭Station.‬ ‭This‬ ‭interview‬ ‭was‬‭conducted‬‭at‬‭the‬‭Ogden‬‭Union‬‭Station‬‭by‬‭oral‬‭historian‬‭Alyssa‬‭Kammerman‬ ‭of‬ ‭RootsBridge‬‭LLC.‬‭During‬‭this‬‭interview,‬‭Arlene‬‭Anderson‬‭shares‬‭memories‬‭of‬ ‭her‬ ‭father’s‬ ‭time‬ ‭working‬ ‭for‬ ‭the‬ ‭Southern‬ ‭Pacific‬ ‭Railroad‬ ‭as‬ ‭a‬ ‭laborer,‬ ‭lamp‬ ‭tender,‬‭and‬‭foreman.‬‭She‬‭discusses‬‭the‬‭difficulties‬‭her‬‭parents‬‭faced‬‭immigrating‬ ‭to‬ ‭America‬ ‭from‬ ‭Mexico,‬ ‭and‬ ‭the‬ ‭belonging‬ ‭they‬ ‭found‬ ‭within‬ ‭Ogden’s‬ ‭Hispanic/Latino‬ ‭community.‬ ‭Anderson‬ ‭discusses‬ ‭the‬ ‭importance‬ ‭of‬ ‭representation‬ ‭in‬ ‭museums,‬ ‭committees,‬‭school‬‭boards,‬‭and‬‭community‬‭spaces‬ ‭today.‬ ‭This‬ ‭is‬‭a‬‭continuation‬‭of‬‭an‬‭interview‬‭conducted‬‭with‬‭the‬‭Zisumbo‬‭Sisters‬ ‭on September 23, 2023.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Today is October 4th, 2023. I am continuing my‬‭interview with Arlene Anderson‬ ‭about her father, Concepcion Zisumbo, for the Ogden Union Station Centennial‬ ‭Exhibit. Arlene, thank you so much again for coming and meeting with me today.‬ ‭I appreciate it. So I got to talk with your sisters a bit about your father's‬ ‭experience with the railroad, and I'd like to hear your perspective a bit more, too.‬ ‭But I was curious, when your father came over with your family, were the‬ ‭railroads a major employer for Hispanics in Ogden? Was there a pretty big‬ ‭Hispanic population of railroad workers?‬ ‭1‬‭of 30‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭So from what I understand, because I wasn't born yet, is that there was a need to‬ ‭have more labor-type employment to help lay the tracks, that kind of thing. And‬ ‭so not just my father but his brothers, my uncles, who were in Kansas at the time,‬ ‭came here to Ogden to see what kind of job prospects they would have. And so‬ ‭that's what brought them to the Ogden area.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭How did they hear about those jobs?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Word of mouth. And probably through family members‬‭and friends that had come‬ ‭here before. And so then that's usually how information is communicated in the‬ ‭Hispanic population.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Okay, makes sense. When you said labor-type jobs,‬‭what would all of that‬ ‭include?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭So my father was a laborer, so he would lay the‬‭tracks and measure them to‬ ‭ensure that the rail system was fine for the trains. And my understanding is that‬ ‭that's what he did. And then he became a lamp tender, making sure that the‬ ‭lights were working so that the trains would see the tracks. And then he‬ ‭eventually became a foreman and had a team under him. and so it really was an‬ ‭opportunity for him to grow and do more, from the beginning, to his retirement.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭So I'm curious about, when I was speaking with‬‭your sisters, they mentioned how‬ ‭the foremen were mostly white men. What were some of the challenges that your‬ ‭dad faced when he became a foreman?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭So it was interesting. My father never went to‬‭school where he came from. It was,‬ ‭you had to work the farms, otherwise you wouldn't be able to eat and have food‬ ‭on the table, clothes, that kind of thing. And he wanted a better life. And so with‬ ‭2‬‭of 30‬ ‭that said, you know, even with many of the foremans being white and him being‬ ‭Hispanic, he also struggled with the language. He had to learn the language. And‬ ‭my father may not have been formally educated, but he had an incredible‬ ‭memory that he was able to tell you processes, procedures, and make sure that‬ ‭things were getting done right.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭I know you've studied some of this history a little‬‭bit. Do you happen to know an‬ ‭estimate of how many Hispanics immigrated to Ogden to work for the railroad at‬ ‭that time?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yeah, I don't know exact numbers. It wasn't many,‬‭even though they were‬ ‭focused in and around Ogden for Union Station. So I would say it was a small‬ ‭percentage at the time, maybe 10% or less. Again, they were part of the labor‬ ‭force. But over the years we have considerably grown to, now, I do know that we‬ ‭are 38% Hispanic/Latino in our Ogden community.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭So, the Union Pacific railroad stopped coming‬‭through Union Station in the late‬ ‭1960s, but your father continued working for the railroad past that time period. Is‬ ‭that correct?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yes, that is correct, and I believe it was with‬‭the Southern Pacific Railroad, that‬ ‭he continued to work and continue to do the same job, Monday through Friday.‬ ‭Again, earlier on, when they were building and connecting the tracks, he would‬ ‭have to take assignments outside of the city, as far, I believe, as Nevada,‬ ‭Wyoming, the surrounding Western states, in order to make sure that things were‬ ‭being done by the company based on what they needed.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭And were those like temporary positions where‬‭he'd have to travel for work?‬ ‭3‬‭of 30‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Temporary, yes. And I'm not sure if they were assigned or if he volunteered, but‬ ‭again, because he had a large family, he wanted to make sure that he was‬ ‭providing for our family.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭So would you guys travel with him?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭No, we wouldn't travel with him. My mother would‬‭stay back, take care of the‬ ‭children while he was off, and then he would come back on the weekends. There‬ ‭were times that he couldn't – Again, it was maybe due to winter, the storms, and‬ ‭so it was better for him to stay where they were, and then he would come when‬ ‭he could.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭How long was he gone, typically?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭From what I understand, it could be anywhere from‬‭two weeks to a month. Just‬ ‭depending on how much work was needing to be done, and again, what the‬ ‭elements were during that time.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭That's really hard. Were you guys able to communicate‬‭with him a lot?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭I don't believe so. It was only through, again,‬‭if a wife happened to be out there‬ ‭and had to relay information. They didn't have the luxury of cell phones or even, I‬ ‭don't even think they had landlines. And so it really was just once he got back‬ ‭into town that that's how they'd be able to communicate; in person.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭So I'm curious about your mom's side of this:‬‭She's staying behind with the kids‬ ‭in Ogden. Did you guys have a pretty good community that you could lean on for‬ ‭support while your dad was gone?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭I believe so. So once my parents were able to‬‭establish a home, we were in a‬ ‭neighborhood where there were other Hispanic-Latino families. And also we had‬ ‭4‬‭of 30‬ ‭my grandma who lived close by, I had an uncle that lived close by, and so they‬ ‭would be there to support each other and help each other out. So it was always a‬ ‭family surrounding, and then we had other friends that she would work with,‬ ‭where she would talk to and get support from.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭And you mentioned that she had some railroad wife‬‭friends, is that correct?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yes, that is correct. Early on, there were times‬‭where, prior to all of us, with the‬ ‭exception of my two oldest sister, they did have to go out and live, I believe, in a‬ ‭cabin. And she befriended some other railroad wives who would help her. And‬ ‭my parents were young when they got married, and so, you know, the trials and‬ ‭tribulations of a marriage, and then having to be in a remote area and make do‬ ‭with what you had. And so I don't remember the lady's name, but she was able to‬ ‭help my mother while my father worked on the railroad.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭So I'm curious, from your own living memory, do‬‭you remember your father‬ ‭working on the railroad, or were you too young?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yeah. So for me, it wasn't really... Because I‬‭wasn't one of the lucky sisters who‬ ‭got to travel on the Station – I wish I could have – so what I do have is what I see‬ ‭now. I do remember having to make little trips here and there. He had this green‬ ‭truck, which I now own, and I treasure it because that was something that he‬ ‭took every single day to work. And it was a little '66 Chevy pickup. And it's, like I‬ ‭said, I do remember him going to meet other workers, but those are the‬ ‭memories that I have, riding in a pickup truck.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭So, was his green pickup truck the vehicle that‬‭he would use to go out on the‬ ‭tracks and check them?‬ ‭5‬‭of 30‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Every day, every day.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭What were his hours like for his different positions?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭I think it varies depending upon the elements,‬‭because there were times that I‬ ‭remember there'd be rainstorms and thunder and lightning, and a post would get‬ ‭struck by lightning, and so he would be out long hours. Typically, he would leave‬ ‭at six in the morning and maybe come home about 5:30-6 in the evening. So‬ ‭they were long hours that he would have to endure.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭And was that partly because he would travel so‬‭far down the track and‬ ‭everything?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yeah, correct.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭So why did your parents settle in Ogden, specifically?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Well, because of the railroad station. The railroad‬‭was a really good job for both‬ ‭my parents – well, for my father. But then being able to make ends meet, pay the‬ ‭bills, have a good home, I mean, that is the dream that a lot of immigrants want.‬ ‭And so settling here in Ogden, I truly believe that they were successful, in my‬ ‭definition of success, for coming from another country and being able to own a‬ ‭home, being able to own a car, and, you know, go to church on Sunday, make‬ ‭sure the kids went to school, and it was a good life.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Do you happen to know what his wages were like‬‭for the railroad?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭So what I saw, and again, we're thinking like‬‭early-on, I think they were under‬ ‭$10 an hour. I mean, very minimal. I do believe he gradually, you know, as time‬ ‭went on, got promotions. But I don't know that he ever made more than $50,000‬ ‭per year and he had been with the railroad for 40 plus years. He worked hard.‬ ‭6‬‭of 30‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Do you know how many men were on the teams under him as a foreman?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭That I'm not sure. I do believe it was at least‬‭3 to 8, but I don't really know the‬ ‭specifics.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭I know last time we were interviewing, we talked‬‭about how your father wanted to‬ ‭come with your mother and your sisters to America for a better life. They faced‬ ‭so much discrimination when they got here, and thinking about that, what was it‬ ‭that made them feel like they would be able to get a better life here, in spite of all‬ ‭the discrimination and hardship they faced?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭So where they come from is a little ranchito called‬‭Jeruco, Michoacan, and it‬ ‭really is just a farming town. Barely have a roof. They have outhouses and they‬ ‭live off the land. Very humble beginnings. But they also knew that there was‬ ‭more and that they needed to do more, and so coming to America and hearing‬ ‭from others the many opportunities that you can have in America, they made the‬ ‭migration, the trip to come here. And I think even enduring the racism and‬ ‭discrimination, it was still better than what they had, where they came from.‬ ‭It was hard. I think part of it, they may not have understood a lot of the‬ ‭language, but they understood the actions of people. And so they... I know my‬ ‭mother, she kept to herself and just did what she needed to do. Obviously, my‬ ‭father had to go out there and endure probably a lot of discrimination and racism.‬ ‭But he continued on, persevered, because again, the end goal was to provide for‬ ‭his family.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Did they ever talk to you about discrimination‬‭or the racism you may face?‬ ‭7‬‭of 30‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭So I do know that there were only certain places that they could go even for‬ ‭shopping, even if it was the movie theater. There weren't many movie theaters. I‬ ‭mean, you know, when they had the opportunity to go find entertainment, they‬ ‭had to go to Salt Lake. That I do remember. Me and my little sister would go with‬ ‭them, but we would have to go all the way to Salt Lake to see some of the‬ ‭Hispanic movies, because there was nothing here in Ogden, and there were only‬ ‭specific places in Ogden that they could go to. And so it was kind of like you‬ ‭knew where you were welcomed and accepted, and then you stayed away from‬ ‭those that you knew you couldn't go into.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Were there places that would specifically have‬‭signs up, kind of like you used to‬ ‭see in the South?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yeah, my father told me, and I know through the‬‭history of Ogden that there are‬ ‭signs. Obviously, it's similar to what you see in the South. I do believe that they‬ ‭called Mexicans 'dogs'. “No Mexican dogs allowed.” I do remember reading that‬ ‭in history. And so, again, they had to be very careful where they were going,‬ ‭even on the day-to-day.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Is that something that you remember from your‬‭lifetime as well?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Well, from my lifetime: I do remember growing‬‭up, because we were one of three‬ ‭families in my neighborhood – And I didn't know anything about racism or‬ ‭discrimination until one day my little white friend told me, "My mom says I can't‬ ‭play with you anymore." And I'm like, "Well, why not?" "Because you're brown‬ ‭and you don't go to our church." And at the time, I mean, I had no idea that I was‬ ‭brown. And I'm thinking, "Yeah, I do go to church." But it wasn't the right church,‬ ‭8‬‭of 30‬ ‭according to them. I believe I was nine or ten when I first heard that, and I had‬ ‭talked to my sisters, and they had helped me understand what all of that meant,‬ ‭because I was just so confused at the time with what my friend had said.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭And was that something that your parents ever‬‭brought up or addressed?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Well, they weren't really too confrontational,‬‭so they would say, "It's okay, just‬ ‭play with your sisters. Go in the back, we have a yard." And so, again, that's how‬ ‭they dealt with racism. "Just stay to yourself, keep your head down and we'll be‬ ‭okay."‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Do you feel that racism created a more tight-knit‬‭community amongst the local‬ ‭Hispanic/Latinos?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭You know, I don't know if it was racism, so much,‬‭but obviously when you're‬ ‭welcome, you invite everybody. And so I do remember we had beautiful‬ ‭weddings and quinceaneras and those types of fiestas that we would all be‬ ‭together. And in fact, what I do remember is the trips to Lagoon. And back in the‬ ‭day they would have these pavilions and there was something very specific, like‬ ‭a Hispanic Day, or I don't even know what it was called back then. But that's‬ ‭where we saw a lot of our friends and community and, you know, Mexican music,‬ ‭Mexican food. And it was probably me and my little sisters' favorite time during‬ ‭the summer; when we could go to Lagoon and be able to see others that we‬ ‭knew.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭So was Union Station a place where you guys could‬‭always gather for‬ ‭quinceaneras and those kinds of things?‬ ‭9‬‭of 30‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Eventually, my older sisters got married, I do remember having some weddings‬ ‭here at the Union Station, and it was always fun being able to see the trains up‬ ‭close, and knowing that my dad helped with a lot of this stuff. But having just‬ ‭been able to go into the Union Station, it's just an incredible building and had a‬ ‭lot of little... I don't know, when me and my little sister were small, I mean,‬ ‭obviously we'd be running around and we would find little nooks and crannies‬ ‭and have fun while the adults were dancing and having fun.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭So this is a little off-script, but I've heard‬‭that the Union Station sometimes will be‬ ‭a meeting place for Day of the Dead celebrations or other like heritage-type‬ ‭festivals and such. Were you involved with any of those or with bringing them to‬ ‭the Station at all? I'm not even sure when they started, honestly, so.‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yes, and some of those we... In the beginning‬‭there was committees, and I did‬ ‭help with the first Dia de los Muertos, and then with the Hispanic Heritage‬ ‭Festival, which we continued to this day. We continue to have festivities here,‬ ‭and again, bring more community, not just from Ogden, from many other places‬ ‭as well. And so we continue those traditions to this day. In fact, we're going to‬ ‭have ours on October 21st, not at the Union Station. But it's a beautiful holiday‬ ‭for many Hispanic/Latinos.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭That's so cool. I am curious about how you got‬‭involved with being a part of those‬ ‭kinds of committees, where you're able to help preserve Hispanic/Latino culture.‬ ‭What was your start?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yeah. So my start was just being more aware of‬‭the community that I love. Being‬ ‭born and raised here, you know, there's a saying, "Ni de aqui, ni de alla,"‬ ‭10‬‭of 30‬ ‭meaning, "I'm neither from here nor from there." So I'm bicultural. I wasn't born in‬ ‭Mexico, but I was born here. And so just seeing that there were spaces where I‬ ‭didn't feel welcome, it was for me, to say, "Okay, well then I'm going to enter‬ ‭those spaces and be part of it and let them know who I am." And so I think that's‬ ‭really how I started.‬ ‭And then seeing school, seeing boards, seeing commissions and not‬ ‭having people that look like me: that's when I started getting interested in even‬ ‭city commissions or city boards. To this day, I sit on a city board for development,‬ ‭and it's important to ensure that our community feels welcome, and having‬ ‭people sit at the table that looks like us; Representation matters. It's so important.‬ ‭And also to this day, I'm a school board member. I'm the second Hispanic/Latina‬ ‭in the history of the school board, and I'm very proud of that. It's important that‬ ‭we bring community together, we feel inclusive and that we have a sense of‬ ‭belonging. And that's why I do what I do.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭That's amazing. Was any of that influenced by‬‭your parents at all? Did they ever‬ ‭talk to you about the importance of remembering your heritage and preserving it?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Absolutely. What I love is that we continue to‬‭learn not just English, but kept our‬ ‭Spanish native language. We would speak Spanish in the home and then we'd‬ ‭go to school and speak English. And so, again, bilingual, bicultural. And then at‬ ‭home we would have, you know, the wonderful tacos, enchiladas, refried beans,‬ ‭you name it. But then, you know, being in school, we would see the meatloaf and‬ ‭the mashed potatoes, and so it was a little bit of both, and I'm just, again,‬ ‭honoring the traditions, the culture. And even at Thanksgiving, it was never‬ ‭11‬‭of 30‬ ‭American. It was never Mexican. It was a combination. So we would have the‬ ‭turkey, would have the enchiladas, the rice, the beans, and it was just a blend of‬ ‭both cultures, and that's what I've always known.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭So I love this idea of being of both places. I‬‭think it's fascinating. What is the‬ ‭importance to you of honoring both cultures, especially your Hispanic heritage?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭It's being proud of who I am. And I get emotional‬‭[tearing up] because my parents‬ ‭left their country, they left their culture, they left our language, to make a better‬ ‭life for themselves, for their nine girls, and be an American. I'm also proud of‬ ‭being an American. Being a citizen, I know that I do have privilege. Not every‬ ‭Hispanic/Latino has that privilege, so I'm going to take that and use it for good.‬ ‭And because of that, what I do is I want to make sure that I'm in those spaces to‬ ‭be the voice for those that live in the shadows of our community. I also exercise‬ ‭my right to vote, so when I vote, I don't just vote for myself. I vote for my mom‬ ‭and dad because they never had that opportunity. And so that's who I am. And, I‬ ‭can be my authentic self and I think people will love me for it. And there's‬ ‭probably some that won't. But I am truly blessed to have both cultures.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭That's beautiful, thank you. I keep thinking about,‬‭when we had our phone call,‬ ‭we talked about how in the Union Station, you see artistic depictions of railroad‬ ‭workers who are from China, or who are African-American, but you don't see‬ ‭very many Hispanic railroad workers. And so I'm curious about, what was that‬ ‭representation like at the time when your father worked on the railroad? What did‬ ‭his teams look like that he would work with? Was he a minority on his teams?‬ ‭12‬‭of 30‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yeah, he was a minority on his team. And I do know that he worked alongside‬ ‭some Black African-American workers as well. And usually they were the‬ ‭laborers, and you had the foremen that were white. You know, it's interesting‬ ‭because every time I go into Union Station, the main lobby, I look up and I see‬ ‭who's there, and I also see who's not there. And it makes me sad because I feel‬ ‭like, you know, we were part of the creation of this place, but yet we're not‬ ‭represented there. And it's almost like my father and my uncles and every other‬ ‭Hispanic/Latino who did do the hard labor was forgotten and invisible, and it‬ ‭shouldn't be that way. They were part of building this beautiful city, and that's‬ ‭what I would like to see preserved and see them honored and share their stories‬ ‭for what they have done with their contributions to our Ogden City.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭You mentioned that a lot of the jobs that were‬‭open to them were labor-type jobs.‬ ‭Was that all that was open to them when your father first came over? Or did he‬ ‭have the ability to apply for other ones?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭I believe he probably would have had the ability.‬‭I do know that some of my‬ ‭uncles who were born here – because they come from a blended family, they did‬ ‭understand the English language – they had better opportunities than someone‬ ‭like my father. Again, my father did learn English. He also, again, didn't have a‬ ‭formal education, so filling out paperwork was difficult for him. You had to pass‬ ‭test certifications, again, with his great memory, he was able to do that. But those‬ ‭were some of the challenges and difficulties for him to get promoted in the job‬ ‭opportunities that they had.‬ ‭13‬‭of 30‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭And when he did get promoted to foreman, was that mainly based on his good‬ ‭work and reputation?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yeah. And he had a strong work ethic, very loyal,‬‭committed, dedicated, hard‬ ‭worker, got the job done. And I like to think that a lot of those traits we also‬ ‭received, not just from him, but from my mother, because just like me and my‬ ‭sisters, we took what we had and we've been able to do something with our lives.‬ ‭And, you know, that's one thing that my father and mother always told us: "You‬ ‭have the right to an education, and once you have that knowledge, nobody can‬ ‭ever take it from you." And those are words that I live by. Me and my little sister‬ ‭are the two that received our MBAs, and I'm really proud. And I wish both of them‬ ‭could have been here to see us graduate.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Was that something that they really encouraged‬‭you to do – to get higher‬ ‭education?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yes. Always, always, always. Especially because‬‭my father had all girls. And you‬ ‭know, the Hispanic culture, it's so different in Mexico. You're supposed to be, you‬ ‭know, the doting wife, kind of play that role. I'm far from that. And I know, you've‬ ‭seen a lot of my sisters. We're very opinionated, and so he knew that we would‬ ‭succeed. He knew that we had what it took to become whatever we wanted to‬ ‭become, because we were going to get that education that we needed.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭And were you encouraged to pursue careers like‬‭that, as well as become wives?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Absolutely. In fact, to this day, I continue to‬‭learn and grow, myself. You know, I‬ ‭teach at the university, and I even go back to the high school and I tell the kids,‬ ‭"You never stop learning. You're always learning." To this day, I continue to work‬ ‭14‬‭of 30‬ ‭on getting credentials so that I can be a subject matter expert in the field that I'm‬ ‭in. And so that's something that I even instill with my two children who are, you‬ ‭know – my son got his associate's degree, and my daughter is in her first year in‬ ‭college. So education is everything.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭So I want to hear a bit more about the details‬‭of your dad's job. So first, he was a‬ ‭track-layer. Do you know any details about what that looked like, day-to-day, or‬ ‭some of the hardships he faced, or the triumphs that he had through all of that?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭So again, as a laborer, obviously, you know, those‬‭things are heavy, even the‬ ‭wood to hold it and frame it together. I remember him having lots of tools, heavy‬ ‭tools, and that's one thing that he did show us is these big old wrenches that I've‬ ‭never seen in my life. But I mean, to know that day in and day out, that's what he‬ ‭had to use, and then making sure that the measurements were right, I can only‬ ‭imagine how hard that was to lay those tracks. And again, be very precise based‬ ‭on how far each tie needed to be from the other. And then the elements: again, it‬ ‭didn't matter if it was sunny, hot, over a hundred degree weather or if it was‬ ‭blizzard – you know, living in Utah, we get horrible winter storms – and having to‬ ‭shovel and keep the tracks clean, I mean, those were the elements that he had‬ ‭to work through.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭I'm interested in the tools that he used. Do they‬‭have any kind of mechanical‬ ‭tools or are they all just like hand wrenches and such?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭My understanding, it was all by hand. I mean,‬‭it wasn't until later on with‬ ‭technology and engineering that they were able to get automated things. So it‬ ‭was just manual labor.‬ ‭15‬‭of 30‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭And you showed me that he had a string that he would use to... Was that for‬ ‭measuring the railroad ties?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yeah, that's my understanding. It was just a wooden‬‭stick with a twill rope and‬ ‭they would just stretch it out from one tie to the other and then roll it back up and‬ ‭then go to the next and continue.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Was that something that was given to him, or did‬‭he create it himself?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭You know, I don't know. It looks like he probably‬‭made it, but it's something that‬ ‭I've kept to this day.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭And then from there, he went on to be a‬‭lamp tender.‬‭Tell me about what that‬ ‭was like.‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭So my understanding when he became a lamp tender‬‭is just making sure that all‬ ‭the lights were clean. And then, like I said, during the winter time, if there was‬ ‭snow, he would clean it off, and then just make sure that all the lamps that were‬ ‭leading down the tracks for the train, that the train was able to see what was‬ ‭needed, or to be able to, you know, follow and make sure. So that's what I‬ ‭understand that to be.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭And those are probably gas lamps at the time,‬‭right?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yeah, I think so. I am not sure, but probably.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭I mean, I guess it probably could have been electricity‬‭if it wasn't way out there.‬ ‭Interesting. And so how long was he on the railroad versus the lamp-tender jobs?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Oh, geez. I think it might have been at least‬‭15 years before he moved from‬ ‭laborer to lamp tender. Yeah, I would think that, again, with his challenges and‬ ‭the barriers that he faced, it probably took him longer than the average worker,‬ ‭16‬‭of 30‬ ‭just because of the struggle with the language and having a hard time reading‬ ‭and writing.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭And then when he became a foreman. Do you know‬‭how long he was a foreman‬ ‭for?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭So he was with the railroad for about 41+ years;‬‭So probably 15 years before he‬ ‭retired is when he was a foreman. But again, you can see the span of how long it‬ ‭took him to get to that point.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭And did he ever take you to see his work? Like,‬‭was he able to share any of that‬ ‭with you specifically?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭I think the only time, it wasn't like when he‬‭was actually working, it'd be like when‬ ‭we were here at the Union Station and maybe on a day off when we would come‬ ‭here. Or again, there was a wedding, and we'd come out and he'd be like, "Do‬ ‭you see all that? That's what I did," you know, and I couldn't comprehend it at the‬ ‭time because I was still young, but now that I'm older, I surely do appreciate it.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Do you think he was proud of the work that he‬‭had done?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭He was very proud, [tearing up] especially knowing‬‭that he contributed to this‬ ‭city. Coming from where he came from, where he had nothing, to making‬ ‭something, being part of something incredible. And, you know, in reading about‬ ‭the history of the Union Station, this was the Grand Central Station that we now‬ ‭see in New York City, where many people came from, all parts of the world.‬ ‭People that I never imagined would come because of the trains that led them‬ ‭here. And, you know, I only wish that I could have seen all that, but I wasn't even‬ ‭a twinkle in the sky at the time.‬ ‭17‬‭of 30‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭I hope you don't mind me asking, what year were you born?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭[Laughs] 1970.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Okay, so you were right at the tail end there.‬‭So this is kind of, I guess, going‬ ‭back a little, but, what were your parents' opportunities for education when they‬ ‭lived in Mexico?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭When they lived in Mexico, they could get an education,‬‭at least elementary. I‬ ‭know my mother went, I think, to the third grade, and then my father did go for a‬ ‭while, but he had challenges [laughing] with learning. He'd rather be out doing‬ ‭whatever instead of paying attention and learning. And then, you know, like,‬ ‭same with my mother, there were times when she was needed to help her father‬ ‭with the farm. And I think that's really what it was, that because they lived in such‬ ‭a tiny little town, that it was important to pull the kids and help them with the‬ ‭day-to-day farming, otherwise they wouldn't be able to sell and survive on what‬ ‭they had. And so, you know, if they would have kept with it, I'm sure they could‬ ‭have had an education. But again, based on the time, based on the need, it just‬ ‭didn't work out.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Do you know what they were farming?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭I know my maternal grandfather had cows and so‬‭they would sell milk. On my‬ ‭father's side, I'm not quite sure.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭So coming out here had better opportunities for‬‭jobs, and growth.‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yes, absolutely.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭What are some things about Hispanic history on‬‭the railroad that you feel would‬ ‭be important for exhibit attendees to know and to understand?‬ ‭18‬‭of 30‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭I just think it's important that, because you don't see them on the murals as soon‬ ‭as you enter the lobby, it's important that they know that it was a melting pot of‬ ‭many different people who contributed to the Union Station, to the tracks that we‬ ‭see to this train station, and it's important to honor them. And that even for the‬ ‭Hispanic community, that they feel a sense of belonging when they come to the‬ ‭Union Station. That's what I would like to see preserved, is ensuring that they‬ ‭know that they belong and that many others before them helped pave the way to‬ ‭make this incredible building the train tracks, the trains that came along this way.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭What are some things that would help us with bringing‬‭about that sense of‬ ‭belonging?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Sharing stories, just like what I'm doing right‬‭now. And it would be nice if the‬ ‭Union Station would share pictures of all that helped create the Union Station. It‬ ‭would be nice to see people like me on the walls, and seeing that connection.‬ ‭And that would help with the sense of belonging. I think it's also important‬ ‭because we are now, like I told you, at 38% Hispanic/Latinos. And I don't know if‬ ‭they have this, but tours in Spanish would be a great way to get people to come.‬ ‭Also having information in Spanish so that people can read along. I've been to‬ ‭other museums where you can have headphones, and any different language‬ ‭can come, and they just walk around and tour. So I would love to see that‬ ‭happen at the Union Station.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭And when we were on the phone, you had mentioned‬‭that 50% of the local‬ ‭Hispanic/Latino population doesn't speak English? Is that correct?‬ ‭19‬‭of 30‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yeah, that's what---I mean, we don't know for certain, but just based on the‬ ‭numbers that I know with the other jobs that I do, we were thinking it's about 50%‬ ‭non-English or limited-proficient, so yeah.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Which is very good to know, because I feel like‬‭most people don't realize that.‬ ‭So, I feel like we're going through my interview questions so much faster than I‬ ‭meant to, so I apologize. Before we wrap up, was there anything specifically that‬ ‭you wanted to make sure that we shared?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭So I don't know the future of Union Station. I‬‭hope we preserve it because it is‬ ‭something that I believe is just one of our most incredible landmarks in our city.‬ ‭And knowing that many different people – it was a melting pot of many‬ ‭communities of the past, and I do believe, of now. And I hope for the future that‬ ‭as a community, we continue to enter its hallways and use it for community.‬ ‭That's my hope for Union Station.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭How do you feel that it has been important to‬‭have it as a community center?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭It's extremely important because we don't have‬‭too many places or spaces that‬ ‭many people gather. Like I said, it's been celebrated with weddings,‬ ‭quinceaneras, festivals. It brings people from other places here. I forgot to‬ ‭mention, I was part of the 100 year centennial of Big Ben, and knowing that not‬ ‭just people from the United States come here, they came from all over the world:‬ ‭that is something that surprised me. So if people know about us, I mean, this is‬ ‭huge. And that's why it's important to share all the stories that we possibly can,‬ ‭so that we can continue the Union Station's legacy in Ogden City.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭So I want to hear more about your specific memories‬‭of Union Station.‬ ‭20‬‭of 30‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭My specific memories are, again, with my sisters having their weddings here.‬ ‭One thing that I loved – I mean, obviously I had eight sisters, so I had so many‬ ‭weddings to go to [laughing] – My mother and father would rent the big area‬ ‭where the stage is, and they would have a band come. My mother would do all‬ ‭the catering, like, she would do all the food, the enchiladas, the rice and beans,‬ ‭and she had many ladies that helped her. And then my father would make sure‬ ‭that everything else was taken care of and set up. And so just waiting for that day‬ ‭to come, knowing that it was going to be this wonderful fiesta of dance and‬ ‭celebration: those are the memories that I love and that I'll always cherish of the‬ ‭Union Station.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭So were all of your sisters married in the Union‬‭Station?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Most of them. Not all of them, I would say half‬‭of them were, yeah.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Okay. How come?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Well, prior to that, there was another building‬‭on... I want to say it was 25th‬ ‭Street, that my father would also use, and so I just think it was dependent on the‬ ‭time, because my older sisters went to the Berthana – I don't know if you're‬ ‭familiar with that building – and so we had a couple of weddings there. And then,‬ ‭I don't know if it was a change of management, whatever, anyways, we ended up‬ ‭coming to the Union Station and then had the other half here, so it was between‬ ‭the two.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Mainly because it had the big venue?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.‬ ‭21‬‭of 30‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Okay. That's fun. And you had family who would come in from all over, or just lots‬ ‭of friends?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭We would have family come from all over: from‬‭California, from Chicago. We had‬ ‭family and friends from the city – when there was a Zisumbo wedding, you better‬ ‭hope you were invited, because they knew that it was going to be a great‬ ‭wedding.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭That sounds like so much fun [laughing].‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yeah [chuckles].‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭So you mentioned being a part of the Big Ben 100-year-anniversary.‬‭Tell me‬ ‭about that. I don't think I know what that was.‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Oh, okay. Well, there is a Big Ben, at least that‬‭I know of, this big black train‬ ‭station that travels and it makes little stops. And so we were having our 100 year‬ ‭anniversary and I was like, "You know what? I'm going to volunteer." And I'm so‬ ‭happy that I did, because like I said, so many people. I mean, I was amazed at‬ ‭how many people came, and, and the Big Ben was parked out here and you‬ ‭could actually go in it, you could touch it, and it's just huge. It was one of the‬ ‭biggest locomotives, and just seeing it is just incredible, and just being able to be‬ ‭part of that excitement. And then, like I said, meeting so many people from all‬ ‭over the world. Like, I was just amazed like, "How did they even hear of our little‬ ‭town of Ogden, Utah, and they're here?" But it was just the most incredible event‬ ‭to be part of, and knowing that people are coming here because of our train‬ ‭station and because of Big Ben, and, you know, seeing the Union Station and‬ ‭22‬‭of 30‬ ‭going in and out. And, you know, we have the Browning Center as well and the‬ ‭history of that; you don't find that anywhere else. We're really lucky.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭That's true. So were you on the committee?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭No. They were looking for volunteers, and I'm‬‭like, "Okay, I'll do it." And it was so‬ ‭much fun.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Is that the same train that came through here‬‭for the 150th anniversary of the‬ ‭Golden Spike?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭You know what? It might have been that one. Yeah,‬‭yeah, I think that's what it‬ ‭was. I know it was called Big Ben and it might have been 150. I could be wrong,‬ ‭but yeah. Because people were, even from Morgan, they were waiting for it to‬ ‭pass. And there were people just all the way along the train tracks, just watching‬ ‭it. And then it finally rolls in here, and it was just so cool. So cool.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭That is so cool. I'm curious why... I feel like‬‭trains are still so exciting to so many‬ ‭people, even though they're not really used anymore for passenger travel and‬ ‭such. What do you think is the draw towards trains, especially for you?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭For me, it definitely is knowing that my father‬‭worked with these incredible‬ ‭machines, but then I almost feel like it's a time traveler. Like even just going in‬ ‭'em, sitting in them, and knowing this was a way that people traveled before we‬ ‭had the luxury of cars or airplanes, and being able to connect with others across‬ ‭the United States... There's just so much history with trains and I just love 'em.‬ ‭AK‬ ‭Would you tell me a little more about some of the‬‭community events you've been‬ ‭a part of with Union Station?‬ ‭23‬‭of 30‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yeah. So the Hispanic Heritage Festival was one that we had talked about. It‬ ‭starts September 15th through October 15th. It's Hispanic Heritage Month, and‬ ‭so, many different community members – We have a few different‬ ‭Hispanic/Latino organizations, so we come together, and again, it's just a day of‬ ‭celebrating our Hispanic heritage. We have music, we have food, we have arts‬ ‭and crafts. It's just a beautiful thing.‬ ‭There was one year – it's now in its seventh year and I think they've had it‬ ‭here two or three times, but I have participated and we were able to showcase a‬ ‭lot of Mexican art. That's one thing that we don't see too much of. We are starting‬ ‭to see more. But even seven years ago, it was hard to find artists with‬ ‭Hispanic/Latino origin. And so we were able to display that and showcase that‬ ‭along with many other things. So that's one of them.‬ ‭Dia de los Muertos: I know that continues to this day. And so, same thing;‬ ‭Dia de los Muertos is extremely important to me because of my mother and‬ ‭father passing. It's about honoring and celebrating life and death, celebrating my‬ ‭parents that have passed on. You know, now that I'm older, I know how important‬ ‭it is, of all the sacrifices and perseverance that they had to endure in order for me‬ ‭to be who I am. And so that's one thing that I am very passionate about. And so I‬ ‭help the community so that they can feel a sense of belonging for‬ ‭Hispanic/Latinos, but also sharing our traditions and our culture with our‬ ‭Caucasian community as well as other communities. You know, as we were‬ ‭talking, it's just so important to take the time to learn about somebody and share‬ ‭your story so that they understand where you're coming from. And that has‬ ‭24‬‭of 30‬ ‭grown over the years and it's just a beautiful holiday. So those are just two of‬ ‭them that I know of.‬ ‭And then even at Christmas time, just being able to participate and be part‬ ‭of the Electric Parade, that's another fun event that has started happening in‬ ‭Ogden. So, you know, 25th Street has so much history, but being able to use this‬ ‭as the main centerpiece for many different communities to come together, it's‬ ‭such a beautiful thing. And then having the Farmer's Market during the summer‬ ‭and seeing the many different vendors, you now see a lot of vendors of color,‬ ‭and I love the diversity that we've become. I was telling you that I was born and‬ ‭raised here in Ogden, but I never felt a sense of belonging until most recently, but‬ ‭I think a lot of that had to do because I'm now part of different committees, part of‬ ‭different groups to ensure that others feel a sense of belonging. At least that's my‬ ‭part that I feel I'm trying to do.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭What committees are you on?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭[Sighs] Oh, well [laughs]. Okay, so, with the‬‭city, I'm on the development‬ ‭committee, and so we want to ensure that, at least from my perspective,‬ ‭Hispanic/Latinos are aware of the different programs with the city. If they want to‬ ‭build a home, you know, first-time homeowner, whatever that may be. I was also‬ ‭– prior to the diversity commission that they now have – I was on the Multicultural‬ ‭Committee for Morgan City, gosh, 20+ years ago. I'm on the school board as a‬ ‭member. I'm the vice president currently, and I am on OFOAM, which is Ogden‬ ‭Friends of Acoustic Music. They bring many different musical genres, groups to‬ ‭25‬‭of 30‬ ‭the city that normally you wouldn't see here. And anything art and culture, I‬ ‭definitely am either part of or I support.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Are‬‭you‬‭artistic?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭No, not at all [laughs]. I wish I were.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭I feel ya.‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yeah.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭So you mentioned that you wanted to be a part‬‭of these things because it meant‬ ‭so much to you to preserve your heritage. But how did you first hear about a lot‬ ‭of these committees and such?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Well, it's nice to have allies who think of you‬‭and say, "Arlene, you would be great‬ ‭if you were on here," and so that will happen sometimes. But then there's other‬ ‭things that I'm passionate about and I'm like, "Okay, who is doing that? Because I‬ ‭want to be part of that." So then I go and meet the person and let them know,‬ ‭"How can I help?" Even if it's a small role, I'm always willing to volunteer. I am‬ ‭busy, but I love my community so much that if there's something that I truly‬ ‭believe in and I'm passionate about, then I am going to make the time and be‬ ‭part of it, regardless how big or small my role is.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Do you feel like Ogden has, maybe, more of a sense‬‭of community than other‬ ‭places that you've lived?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yeah, 'cause I've only lived here. I've never‬‭lived anywhere else [laughing]. I‬ ‭mean, I've traveled to other places, so we're getting there. We're not quite there‬ ‭yet, but we're getting there. I mean, like I said, growing up here, it hasn't been‬ ‭26‬‭of 30‬ ‭until the most recent decade, you know, 10, 15 years, that I've started feeling a‬ ‭sense of belonging. It's been hard.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭And has that sense of belonging mainly been from‬‭your involvement in the‬ ‭committees? Or have there been other things that the Ogden community has‬ ‭done to help with that?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Um, I guess it's a little bit of both. It depends.‬‭You know, maybe in my twenties‬ ‭and thirties, there probably was stuff going on, and perhaps maybe I didn't hear‬ ‭about it. But had I heard about it, I probably would have been encouraged to‬ ‭attend. But there are things that it's, you know, again, sometimes I feel like we're‬ ‭left out. And so in those situations, based on how important it is to me, I'll say,‬ ‭"Hey, what about us?" You know, "How can I help? What can I do so that we can‬ ‭draw more in?" And so that's kind of what I've done more recently, and that's why‬ ‭I am very involved in my community. I also want newcomers to feel that sense of‬ ‭belonging. At the Ogden School Districts, we have many newcomers from many‬ ‭different countries, and they call Ogden home. And I want to make sure that they‬ ‭feel like they belong, because it's really important for everybody to have a place‬ ‭that they belong.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭My next question is two-part: First of all, how‬‭do you feel that the Union Station‬ ‭has shaped the community?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Well, Union Station has been, again, the center‬‭of the main point of Ogden. I feel‬ ‭like it's the heart of Ogden. You know, if you're looking west, down 25th Street,‬ ‭you see this beautiful building, and it's just absolutely stunning when the sun is‬ ‭setting behind it. That's what I feel the Union Station is; It's the heartbeat of‬ ‭27‬‭of 30‬ ‭Ogden, and community comes here. Many activities happen here. And I hope it‬ ‭continues to be that heartbeat of Ogden.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭How can we help it continue to be that heartbeat‬‭of Ogden?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Continue bringing people in, being diverse. Again,‬‭having more than one‬ ‭language, having murals that depict the demographics of our community, having‬ ‭people feel welcome. That's how they can keep people coming.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Do you feel like the community has already helped‬‭to shape Union Station as it is‬ ‭now? Like as a community center, as a museum, etc? Or is there more that we‬ ‭can do?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭No, I think it's definitely – I mean, current‬‭state, most definitely. People come‬ ‭here, they know it's community, they know it's open. Many things to do, especially‬ ‭with the festivities that happen at the Union Station. I think it's doing a great job.‬ ‭But like I said, I mean, there's always room for improvement, just like anything‬ ‭else. And so, again, if we want to attract others, not just from Ogden, it's‬ ‭important to show the demographics, and, you know, have many more languages‬ ‭and reading material in other languages.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Absolutely. So we've been going for about an hour,‬‭and I have just a couple more‬ ‭questions, if that's okay. I know you've gotta get going pretty soon. First, what‬ ‭was some advice that your father gave you, based on the experience that he had‬ ‭had working for the railroad?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Oh, wow. He told me, "Mija, get an education,‬‭because an education will take you‬ ‭far. When you put your mind to whatever you want to do, you can make it‬ ‭happen. You can do it." He said, "Knowledge is power. Nobody can ever take that‬ ‭28‬‭of 30‬ ‭away from you." [Tearing up] And I believe that. I believe that. My father was a‬ ‭wise man. Some people may not have seen that because he wasn't educated,‬ ‭but he was a wise man.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Is that part of the reason you went into education?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Um, yeah. I mean, it is part of the reason why‬‭I went into education, but I also‬ ‭went into healthcare. So, I'm in healthcare and I teach healthcare in education. I‬ ‭actually went into healthcare because of my mother. My mother was diagnosed‬ ‭with leukemia when I was going to college, and it was difficult for all of us‬ ‭because she was like the glue to the family. And it was because when she was in‬ ‭the hospital---and, [tearing up] and this is why it's so important to know others,‬ ‭even if you cannot communicate. There was this caregiver who was a respiratory‬ ‭therapist who didn't know Spanish, tried her best to communicate with my‬ ‭mother, made her feel so comfortable, talked to her like she was a human being,‬ ‭gave her her breathing treatment, and she's like, "Okay, Mrs. Zisumbo, if you‬ ‭need anything, you just let me know and I'll be back." And it was because of that‬ ‭humanity, seeing it that I was like, "That's what I wanna do. I want to help take‬ ‭care of others." So I'm grateful to that caregiver who took the time to care for my‬ ‭mom, even though they didn't understand each other. I'm so sorry, I'm bawling‬ ‭my eyes out.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭No, don’t be sorry. I'm grateful that you're willing‬‭to share such tender memories,‬ ‭so thank you. Just out of curiosity, so you worked in healthcare first and then you‬ ‭chose to teach?‬ ‭29‬‭of 30‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Yeah. So now I'm an adjunct professor at Weber State, teaching healthcare,‬ ‭career paths in healthcare. Yeah.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Okay. And that's how you got onto the school board,‬‭working with the school‬ ‭district and everything. Is that correct?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Well, I have to run for the school board, so I‬‭had to campaign [laughs]. That's a‬ ‭whole other story. But yeah [laughing]. I won by 25 votes.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭That's awesome. Well, is there anything else that‬‭you would like to share before‬ ‭we end our interview?‬ ‭AA:‬ ‭Oh gosh. No, you've done a wonderful job, and‬‭I really appreciate all the time‬ ‭and consideration for me and my family, and just sharing these stories. Thank‬ ‭you so much. It's going to mean so much to so many people.‬ ‭AK:‬ ‭Well, thank‬‭you‬‭. I believe that it will, so thank‬‭you for being willing to share and‬ ‭taking all that time. I appreciate it.‬ ‭30‬‭of 30‬