Oral History Program Yvette Torres Interviewed by Ryann Ramos 2 February 2018 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Yvette Torres Interviewed by Ryann Ramos 2 February 2018 Copyright © 2023 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. 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These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Torres, Yvette, an oral history by Ryann Ramos, 2 February 2018, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections and University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: This is an oral history interview with Yvette Torres. It is being conducted on February 2, 2018 at the Coffee Compound and concerns her leadership experiences as part of the business community in Ogden, Utah. The interviewer is Ryann Ramos. RR: This is an oral history interview with Yvette Torres, conducted at the Coffee Compound on Friday, February 2, 2018. So, I just wanted to kind of hear a little bit about your background, how you kind of started the business, and just experiences in your life that shaped who you are, helped you start your business, and things in that process. So, would you want to start by just telling me a little bit about your background, childhood, high school, college? YT: My dad was in the military and I was born in New Mexico. My dad's in Pennsylvania but he really liked New Mexico and so, he ended up telling me that story. I graduated from high school. But I did live in Alaska. I happen to marry a military guy. My husband was in the air force. He flew helicopters. So, with him, we moved to Spokane, Washington, Panama, the country, and then here. Then, he got out. I guess I like to talk. I just like being very sociable. I just find people, I think, interesting and I like to talk to people, find out about them. I ended up becoming a server on Fridays and Saturdays once my kids were older. We used to go to a restaurant and it was a mom-and-pop place. We go there on Saturday for breakfast and I just was like, “This looks like it will be so much fun.” So, I ended up getting a job there, and I really loved the job. Then, they were selling the business. They were partners but then, three days before the finalization, the 1 one partner backed out. So then, I was like, “Okay.” Actually, we live in Roy and there's a coffee shop in Roy owned by a couple at our church, and I found out that they were going through divorce and she was selling it. And so, I just honestly felt like God told me, "Oh. Here's your opportunity." Everything really just worked out. So, it was like a franchise for three years. I always had in the back of my mind, I wanted to have a different name, and I came up with the Coffee Compound. It's based off of polygamy because polygamists live in a compound, and our motto is, "When one cup isn't enough!" And so, it's just a play on words. I just had thought of it because after living in Utah for so long, even when I go back to New Mexico, people are always like, "Do you live next to polygamists?" They think they're just everywhere. I'm like, "No." So anyway, after four years in Roy, Subway wanted my spot. So, they were going to pay top rent and signed a ten-year lease which I couldn't compete, and so, I was looking for a different location and had lots of people tell me, "You really need to get into Ogden." I had lots of customers. "You really need to get into Ogden." I'm like, "Okay." So, I started looking for a location and I had a couple of customers come back and tell me about this. It used to be a gelato shop. She was trying to get out of her lease and she was looking for somebody, and so that's how I found out about it and I got here. But I would have to say that when I first got my coffee shop, people would say, "You know, it's long hours," and I'm like, "Yes." "And lots of work, yes?" 2 And I would have to say, "No. You don't nearly understand until you're in it." I didn't have much of a background. I just learned everything by myself. My coffee experience, I actually learned from one of my workers because I inherited the workers. Anyway, I started asking the customers, “Who makes the best drinks?” It's not the drinks like coffee. I mean like hello, anybody can afford to coffee. So when somebody says, "Oh yeah." I'm like, "Let me get you a coffee. How hard is that?" But it's the lattes with the espresso and everything. I had the same customers say over and over, "Steve. Steve [makes the best drinks]." I'm like, "Okay." So, I would go and I would watch him. He'd be like, "What are you doing?" "I'm watching you." "Why?" "Because people say you make the best drinks and I want to know why." So I just kept watching him because this was really even before YouTube was out there. I would just watch him and watch him, and make my drinks and ask the customers, “Want to try? Where am I?” They're pretty truthful. Finally, one guy would say, "Almost there." I got really excited. Now, I know what to look for but before, it was hard to understand what you needed. There's so many different steps. Each step makes your final product and it's so hard. I try to tell people that we strive, I really strive with my workers to be as consistent as possible. We can't all make the drink the same way but we can get pretty close because it's hard. You can look at somebody and try to duplicate it 3 but each have their own little thing. So, that's why I say, “Guys, I'm really a stickler and I know that you [?]” Because when they first start working here, they're like, "Oh my gosh." I am a perfectionist. I'll be there and I'll be looking at them and say, "What are you doing? No. You measure everything. Everything is measured, from the syrups to how much milk, everything. You have to." I tell them, "If you don't put in that syrup, the drink is wrong. If you put too much syrup, the drink is wrong." So, I try to do everything as similar as possible and it's hard. First, learning everything. Learning even how much coffee to order. I might sit in there going “Okay, so, I order coffee.” Then, they bring you 4- or 5-pound bags of coffee or something the first time, and they're like, "That's $178." "What?! Oh my gosh!" You're just like blown away. I just want [inaudible]. Sure enough, it is. Running out of coffee because you didn't understand how much, so there's a learning curve. I still have a hard time, I would say, with my workers. I think that's the hardest part. First, hiring workers is hard, just finding them. The second one is I always think more of my workers because we've worked with people who weren't nice to you. I don't like that. I don't want to be one of those mean people. But I've learned along the way that also, I want to be nice and try to be nice but sometimes, it's hard because even though we're friends, I still have to tell you... RR: You're still the boss. 4 YT: Right. I think I end up with the good crew a lot of times. We can all work together. We've never had anybody where I've been in situations that I'd keep them apart, because there were times they'd get together and there's fighting words. So, I feel a lot of times, it's more family-ish. RR: It's a good environment. YT: It's hard juggling. To me, because I'm a wife and a mom, I bring along -- it's hard trying to run this and run a home. I always tell people, "I'm a one-woman band." They will sit there and say, "Well, why don't you hire more people, let some people work longer hours?" But that's payroll, and you can't have higher payroll. It's so much of a balancing act. You're not big enough for Nicholas or Cisco to drop things off at. I mean, you could, but if it is not a huge volume, then you pay high. I have to go and pick up things. It takes a lot of time and everything. RR: Yeah. It's a lot of commitment, definitely. YT: The thing is too, the pay, I guess that I like is the fact that they know I'm boss. Yes, the person comes to them, sitting there. You've worked before, right? We have a really good idea and you tell your boss and you know if they just implemented this, it'd be good but they blow you off. I'm like, "Well, I can come back to you… No, we're going to do it.” And so, that's the nice part because you know your ideas could go, like decorated the whole place and I tell people, “Well, you know, the thing is, it's not my house. So, I can do what I want.” Yes, every wall is a different color. I wouldn't do that in my house, but this is the coffee shop 5 and there are things that you can do that you would say, "Oh. I won't do that in my house." I did it here. Things like that. RR: That’s good. YT: I think also people would ask me like, "Have you always loved coffee?" I was... When I first got the franchise, I was learning. The franchise owner asked me, "What do you know about coffee?" I was like, "I know how to drink it and I know how to pour it." That was about it. I'm not one of those store owners that wants to know everything. I know how coffee is processed. I know how coffee is grown. I never want to roast coffee. That's not my desire. There are certain things that I'm like, that's too indepth. I'm not the person... because I knew somebody who could tell you, "Oh, that coffee shop, this is where they get their coffee. This is how..." I'm like, "Wow!" I do know some coffee shops, where they get their coffee but I don't know such in-depth information because it's not important to me, all day. But I can sit there and tell you things about coffee, espresso. So, I've learned a lot more than I thought I would know about coffee. Now, I'm having good coffee at home and things like that. RR: Cool. Are there certain experiences in your childhood or teen years or beyond that really kind of helped shaped who you are in more of that leadership aspect? You said talking and engaging with people is really an important thing for you. 6 YT: I would just have to say that, I guess, one: I'm a first-born. I never have been shy. I was in drama in high school. As my husband says, "Oh, you're one of those weird people." So, I've always been more outgoing. I would say that I don't think that there was ever a time that I thought, “I want to own my own business.” I never thought that. My whole thing in life was being married and having a family. Then, your kids start getting older and it's like, “What am I going to do?” And then, I ended up doing this. But otherwise, I never even saw myself owning my own business. Sometimes, even when I think of it, I don't even tell a lot of people I own a coffee shop. It's kind of weird when you hear yourself saying that. I think too, one of the things, [is that] I am good with money. I'm a nickel-and-dime person where I think that has come to help me because I have to at least knock on wood that I'm not going to [inaudible]. A lot of businesses, even when you think they're successful, they have a lot of loans for health care. I have loans but that was what I used for collateral for this place because I had to put my [inaudible] to get it up to the health department and Ogden City Business. It's amazing how expensive things were for me, [like] to get water. Sometimes I’d get worried that was like $13,000 to fix this place even though it was a business before. She was selling gelato. I brought most of my stuff over. But electricity, we had to get water from there to there so it's plumbed through the ceiling, and then to get it back here, we have a sub-pump that pumps it back. I'm like, ‘Oh my gosh!” I added up putting signs over… Let's not talk about it. It's just took thousands, you know. So, that, and then, two years ago, my 7 espresso machine died, and so, I was like, “Oh my gosh.” I literally started crying because I'm like, “Okay, they have top of the line lens.” They're also like, as they were explaining to me, "You can get that BMW, but then, when it breaks down, you're going to pay that extra money. The parts are more expensive and the person charge is more to work on it." So, you know, my thoughts are, "I want a reliable but economical one." [inaudible] understand my reliable and economical one was $6,500. I was like, "That's a car. You could buy a car for that." But basically, I think I have like $2,000 left to pay off and that's it. But I don't charge anything. I don't have a standing credit card. If I can't pay it, it's like “Okay, we'll work out payment plans.” So, I think in that way, I feel good but also, things like the espresso machine breaks on you; that's the only time I did use the credit card because you have to have an espresso machine. I'm like, “There's no option here.” It's not like, “Oh, we'll wait.” If it breaks today, I need one by tomorrow because I have to make drinks. I think also, kind of like I'm still not as strong of a boss also. My son is the general manager of a restaurant. He's like, "Mom, you do have to learn not to care." I'm like, "What?!" He goes, “Because I’ll warn them and I’ll tell them. Then, if they come crying, I can tell them, ‘I warned you, I told you.’” YT: The other thing that's hard is criticism. I appreciate criticism. For instance, there was a girl who just gets black coffee and cream, and she'd come the night before 8 and then, she came the next day. But then, she messaged me privately wanting to know, do we change our coffee because it was tasting different. She goes, "Are you using flavored creamer?" I'm like, “No! I'm trying to figure out.” We did get our half and half from the local dairy. It just will not last as long, and I realized that. Even though, it'll say the expiration there sometimes like through this [or] before, so you have to check it. So then, I messaged her and told her. Luckily she'd been a barista at another shop that used the same milk. So, she was like, "I understand." But I like criticism like that when they are talking to you. It's hard now. People can go and yell and things. But there are people that I know have not ever been in my shop because I can remember almost any face I’ve seen. I'm good at remembering faces and names. You can go to Instagram and Facebook and they're talking about another coffee shop but they've come and they've written your review. I'm like, "That's really unfair." I will never write a review for another coffee shop. I just feel that that's wrong. I feel like I would be too judgmental and that's not right. I wouldn't want somebody to just go and write a review for them, just because “Oh, I'm doing you a favor.” No. Be truthful. But you can't really write rebuttals. You just have to take them. It's like, wow. Then, people look at ratings, and I'm sitting there going, “Okay, really? You drive all the way here to Salt Lake and obviously, you're talking about something but you've never been in my shop.” That's kind of hard. My thing is that, if you did get a bad drink, you let me know. I want to fix it. I don't want you going away. I'm not the type. I sit there. I've 9 had customers who are like, "Oh, your new worker made my drink" and they're so good that they'd be like, "I don't want you to replace him." I'm like, "No!” You paid for something. It's not cheap, a lot of these specialty drinks." I'm like, "No. You should have a drink that you enjoy." I do find it interesting. I don't know if it's more men or something but I know that -- like with my son. I rent out the office space over there and it's the Lucky Slice guys. The one owner, Nick, he's telling me, "Oh. I don't even read those reviews anymore. I don't read them.” He goes, "Oh. 5 stars and 1 star. That's the worst place." He goes, "I don't even read them because some of the stuff you read, you're like... and that will further upset you." But I still read them and I'm like “Aaahhh!” I want everybody who comes in here to get a good experience. I think just like, even at restaurants, I think everybody should work in the food industry for two to three weeks to understand. It's a challenging job. RR: It’s customer service. YT: It's hard. It's hard when you're trying to do so many things at one time. A lot of people are like, "Oh, you need to hire another help." It's like "Okay. This rush -- I usually have help in the morning but some of the rushes are 15 minutes. If you understood, nobody's going to come work for 15 minutes or even for an hour. So, you try and do your best." Most of the time, I find people who are used to local coffee shops that are independently owned. They're very patient because one of the things that we do different than Starbucks is, a lot of those big coffee chains, where everything is 10 automatic, everything, they don't have to grind anything. They don't have to tamp anything. They put it into the steam, it's steamed and turns off. And you when you try to keep roll, like from Seattle and Oregon, and even like myself, when you get used to it, there's a difference [between] when people tamp on and do it by hand and you can taste it. And so it takes more time. Do you need to get as fast as Starbucks? I say there's no way. RR: But you have better quality, too. YT: I know. I go, ''We can’t, because we're doing everything by hand.'' So it takes a little bit more time but, you know, it's sort like, do you want french fries that have been sitting there for 30 minutes, or do you want the fresh hot ones? You're gonna have to wait like a minute more, but they're gonna be good, you know? And so that's basically us. We're trying to do that. RR: Yeah. That make sense. That's good. And it's a good business model to have that higher quality and not sacrifice speed for that. YT: And you try -- I mean, that's one of the things you try and teach, you know? At first, like oh my gosh... I felt bad for people like who are waiting for me. Even Juan could tell you. [to Juan] Remember how bad you were at first? [to Ryann] And he was so nervous and it's like, I had to say, “Just calm down.” Because at first -- and even when I've learned to like combine drinks, I always tell them, I go, “There's a line,” and “Ask several people because, for instance, one wants a frozen drink. The second person’s getting drip coffee, and lo and behold - the third person wants a frozen a drink. So you could make those together and have them out of the way, versus, making that one and then that 11 one. And sometimes, two people are getting the same drink. In the beginning I would make each one individually, but now I know I can steam the milk together. And so I've cut, you know -- I'm a little bit faster.” And so anyway, it's thinking ahead, and it's hard at first. I would--I even tell people I had to write it down; I would write it down and then I say you know, had made that drink and cross it out so that. Sometimes if you didn't cross it out, you go back and like oh make the same one by mistake and you're like “Ah!” It was hard to, you know, just learn the language, but it's like learning anything else, you know? And then once you get comfortable, you get better and you get faster. The other thing is that a lot of people will say our beans are higher quality. And basically, it's a selling point because actually beans on the market are like. from a one to five. Everybody's buying bags of the same. People had said, ''Oh you know, they have higher quality beans,'' but I'm like, ''Well, where do you think they get their Columbian? Like, we have our Costa Rican coffee. Where do you think they get theirs? Oh, the same place that I do: Costa Rica!” “It says from Guatemala.'' “Oh yup, we're getting them from Guatemala.” So a lot of people will get like ''Oh my gosh!'' but the range is very small; it's not a huge range for zero to ten And you could buy, you know, a hundred. Their quality is like one to five and maybe, you know, the Four Seasons up there. Like the Nile in Hawaii. They're buying five [point], but those people are spending $1500 or $3000 dollars a night for a room; the coffee's gonna be good. 12 RR: Hopefully. YT: Yeah. But like, my coffee roasters from Salt Lake, it's a four-generation family, you know; they've been doing this. I like their quality. I like knowing that. I mean, I considered that just as local as I could get that I like the quality. When a couple roasters around -- and I am not a good person for tasting or smelling. Juan has a really good tongue, and my daughter does, so we’ll go to people: “Taste this and try.” I don't know. And we do blind tests, you know, so that you’re not knowing. And that's one thing too, I've done before like with my workers. Get a customer that has a drink: “Everybody make this drink and then have them taste it.” And they rate it, and they tell them, so that they know. But you know, they don't know who made what, but it's interesting because I've done it several times. There was one customer, one time; she would -- right away, she could tell. “This is so nice, this is so-and-so”. She really knew. But there are people who sit there and say ''Ohh you know, I can taste the fruity undertones,” and just tell you, “I like it,” or “I don't like it.” There's certain coffees -- I think one of the things that we've done is try to bring in some of the best. We have a dark roast every day, then we have regional, and we only have one blend. I think people tend to think a blend is easy but it's actually harder to create a blend than regionals because you're using maybe one coffee, a blend of coffees, so it was created to have that. So we have a Jazz blend to support our Jazz, but the rest are, you know, basically everything. We have Columbian, Costa Rican; we have several organic coffees and a lot of coffees are grown organically. But to get them organic and getting 13 them stamped -- it's a very tough process. So, you can say “It's Costa Rica, organic as you can get.” But we have quality organic coffees, I think. I know our number one is organic Mexican; a lot of people really like that. I think we have some of the best quality coffee. We order on Wednesday, we get it on Thursday. We keep them in airtight containers, we grind them right before they're brewed and things like that. RR: Yeah. That's good. Has there been someone who’s really helped you or encouraged you or impacted you through this process of learning how to own and operate your own company? YT: No. It was my own, my own desire not to fail. And, I mean, I read a lot of books; I ordered books, lots of coffee books to read. RR: It sounds like talking with your workers was helpful as well. YT: That one worker that was really good, yes! But yeah. I do a lot of reading. Not just like coffee shop but you know, how to run a business. And reading that stuff and ordering more books. But yeah, it was a big learning process. I was just trying to read as much as I could and it was really -- nobody taught me or anything. I just ask a lot of questions; I would ask the coffee guys where our coffee comes from -- but there's -- the last name is Starns and it's -- I think it's Star Mountains Roaster, is their name. But Sam's the father, and then his two children, Suzy and Joe. So when I was first starting to do business, Sam was dealing with coffee. He's, like, 70. I didn't know that he was just filling in, I thought he was like ''Oh wow!” and he was really nice. And then one day this young kid -- well he was 40. “Who are you?” 14 “Joe.” Joe - and he was his son and he'd been on vacation and Sam had been delivering and in all honesty I would always, I'd ask Joe a lot of questions. I'd ask him, and he would tell me things. And Suzy would take the orders and everything. But I think Joe was so friendly and everything but the relationship there -- I even have, you know, a guy who repaired espresso machines who's friends with Joe, who's telling me “No, you should think about getting your coffee from this person.” And I just thought about the friendship with Joe and knowing about his family and everything. I was like, “I would never do that to Joe! My customers like the coffee so why fix something that's not broken?” But March 19th, two years ago, Joe was delivering coffee and he ran into the back of a semitruck and got killed. And it's so sad. And then I just felt like the friendship was gone. I would never sit there and betray him. But I feel they have a great product, and they have a history, so yeah. RR: Yeah. And that's important too. YT: And it was sad, you know. It was so sad, you know, to hear your friend is gone. And I would always like, if I -- I mean, I had his number so I would text him in a panic, ''Oh my gosh! Joe!'' you know, and he would reply. And where can you really do that? Where, as an owner, can you sit there and actually text your product guy, ''What I'm gonna do? Help me!'' “Okay, it's fine,” you know. So yeah. 15 RR: That's cool. Have you found that it's been challenging to own a business as a woman in this community at all? Has that been a factor or has it not really been an issue for you? YT: Well, I'm half Hispanic and I married - he's a Hispanic guy. And you’re told a lot of things: “You're a woman, you're Hispanic, you should have a lot of resources [and] doors opening to start a business.” And I get to find that. I think the only challenge is that, like I said, not being strong enough at first as a boss. I did have some challenges because, you know, in this industry a lot of young kids wanna work in a coffee shop. And so they have to like -honestly I felt like, “Can't you see the tire marks?” They just ran over me sometimes, but now I’ve learned to be more standup and to nip things-- RR: Yeah. YT: -- before it, you know. You see things happening. And then sometimes, it's really hard because you're nervous. [You think], “If this person quits, I'm back to 12hour days,” you know. Because if somebody didn't show up, somebody quits, guess who picks their share? RR: Yeah. So you need to keep things running ultimately. YT: Yeah. But it's hard to find, you know -- everybody has that-- I think the vision. It's like, [with your] friends you just sit around, “I've always wanted to work at a coffee shop.” And I'd say, “But it's not like that. It's a job.” I tell people it's a job. We're not sitting down drinking coffee and then making drinks whenever. 16 RR: Yeah, definitely. Is there any advice that you would -- if someone came to you, like a young person, whose trying to start their business or become more the leader in this community. Is there advice that you would want to like give to them at all? Either as a woman or as a minority in the area? YT: I just think that… So, the model that we were given when I bought my coffee shop, which are really realistic -- she showed us about the people couldn't make things that good or bad. The fact is that, like 6 weeks to 2 months after, she's filed for bankruptcy. That's not successful. So, you know, really, really look into things. I had a young kid talking to me about franchising. It's the rent that kills you; commercial rent is so expensive. And I'm like, “Hey, find something that you could somehow buy and own.” Because the rent here is $2100 dollars a month, plus all the other stuff… I mean when you’re selling $2 cups of coffee - that's a lot of coffee. And to me, I would just tell them you need to be really wise with your money. Don't go into debt opening up a place because if it’s not successful -- if you -- whatever you think the customer base will be, if it's not, then how do you pay that off? I always would look at it like, “Can I really afford it? Do I really need it?” And I would say learn a little bit more. I mean, now you could go online and look at KSL for things. So when you go and try to buy, like, restaurant chairs, I'm like, “$75 dollars? Really? We need ten of them. I don't have that money.” So things like that, to look for things. But I think the most important thing is really 17 budget working things. Everybody is always like, “It's only $65 a month,” and I'm like “Really? Well, you know, times 12… It's too much.” And in all honesty that was on the first things I did when I went in. All the stuff that she had, I literally was able to cut, and I was able to lower the bills. But it was like $560 a month, because she had the fastest internet. She was paying for somebody to come and spray monthly for bugs, and there was no bugs. But you know $25 a month and there's somebody coming around for her outdoor signs; I think that was $35 a month for basically wanting your lights to stay on. And I was like, “Okay.” So I canceled that and they were like, “What if your lights go out?” “Then we would cover replacing the bulb!” And for the four years I was there, they never went out. And I was like, “Oh, I have much money. I saved $35 dollars a month.” And you know, she was getting milk delivered by another dairy that was -you know, this is eight years ago. She's paying out $3 for a gallon of milk. I'm like, we don't need it. I mean milk is milk; she wanted organic milk. But it was things like that. And it was like, do you really need that? Did people tell her the difference? And that's the thing, when people tell a difference with the quality. I buy good syrups and stuff; I'm not gonna go buy like the raw syrup if it's not gonna affect the taste. So we use whole milk because that gives you the best quality taste for lattes. We make our hot chocolate from scratch, we make our whipped cream from scratch, which in all honesty, the price is more expensive than buying 18 canned whipped cream. But we feel that the quality is worth it for our customers. We make a frozen hot chocolate, which people to say is to die for. I don't know if you’ve ever heard of Serendipity in Vegas or New York, but I have people come in and they're like, “This tastes like Serendipity!” except we're not charging the price that Serendipity does. But it is, it is. If you ever have a chance, you have to try our frozen hot chocolate. But I just think that it's watching your money; it's watching your money get the best buy, and don't outgrow yourself. And maybe-RR: You know those details will help too. YT: -- one of the things that I was reading -- and it's kind of like, I've watched things in building a business. It's said, “Never, never get a second location within three years because it's always doom.” You spread yourself way too thin. And I've seen business do that and I like, “Oh my gosh.” Sure enough, six months later, both shops are down. Doing so well is gonna have growth and its setback, you know. It's like, focus and work on your spot. On President's Day it will be four years that we've been here. But moving from Roy to here was like starting all over again. So I'm really hoping that -- they always say you’ve gotta be somewhere for five years and then things really, really grow. RR: Yeah. That's good. YT: Yeah. I've told people I just tread water, you know. I gotta just be over here doing my own little thing. I'd like to get younger kids in but you don't seem to get a hipster crowd and our older crowd… But a lot of people really like it. We get a lot 19 of travelers because we're next to the Marriott, so we get a lot of business people and I think people like it. They come in here and they're like, “This is a really nice coffee shop.” RR: Yeah. I've always liked the atmosphere. YT: Thanks. RR: Yeah good. That was all the questions I had. I really appreciate it. 20