Oral History Program Garrett Potokar Interviewed by Kyle Jackson 12 September 2023 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Garrett Potokar Interviewed by Kyle Jackson 13 September 2023 Copyright © 2025 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description Queering the Archives oral history project is a series of oral histories from the LGBTQ+ communities of Weber, Davis and Morgan Counties of Northern Utah. Each interview is a life interview, documenting the interviewee’s unique experiences growing up queer. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Potokar, Garrett, an oral history by Kyle Jacson, 13 September 2023, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections & University Archives (SCUA), Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: This is an oral history interview with Garrett Potokar. It was conducted by Kyle Jackson on September 12th, 2023 at Weber State University Stewart Library. Garrett talks about his experiences growing up in a traditional LDS household and going through school while trying to find a place to be comfortable in his sexuality. He also discusses his involvement in student government at Weber State University. Also in the room is Lorrie Rands. Names of family and close friends have been omitted or changed. KJ: Today is September 12th, 2023. It is about 4:12 p.m. and we are in the oral history recording studio with Garrett Potokar. I am Kyle Jackson, and Lorrie Rands is on the camera. Before we begin, I'd like to start off with sharing our pronouns and how we identify. My pronouns are he/him, and I identify as queer. LR: I am Lorrie, and I am a lesbian and identify as she/her. GP: My name is Garrett. I use he/him pronouns, and I am a gay man. KJ: Awesome. Garrett, before we start, I'd just like to reiterate that if either of us ask a question that you are not comfortable answering, please feel free to let us know. We will happily skip that question. GP: Will do. KJ: Awesome. I'd like to start off with discussing the very beginning of your life with when and where you were born? GP: Yeah, so I am local to here in Ogden. I grew up in North Ogden, Utah, about a block away from Weber High School. That's actually where my dad teaches, so education has always been a big thing growing up. I’ve just always been in Ogden. KJ: What does your dad teach? GP: He teaches digital media—sorry, I do have a bit of a stutter—so anything in the Adobe suite. Photoshop, Illustrator, graphic design, news broadcasting, that kind of stuff. 1 KJ: Interesting. When you were growing up, what was your family dynamic like? GP: Mom stayed at home. I had two older siblings, one younger sister. We were all very active: religiously, academically, did everything as a family. I was the classic sheltered Mormon PBS kid, if you know that kind of type. That's how I was raised. That's what I knew. KJ: What were you taught, growing up in that sheltered Mormon family, about gender roles or sexuality or anything like that? GP: Gender roles and sexuality were… Sexuality was never really talked about in my house at all. It was one of those things that you just did not mention. I didn't realize it was an option until high school, and then gender roles were extremely enforced. I remember in each of me and my siblings’ rooms, we had “The Family: A Proclamation to the World”, which is very much like, “This is a man's role in the house. This is a woman's role. They need to get married and do these individual things.” It's very straightforward and strict when it comes to gender roles. That was drilled into us all growing up, as was all theology. LR: Hold on a second. Could you give us—if you're comfortable with it—the year you were born? GP: Yes, I was born in ‘02, so I'm 21. KJ: I missed that part. LR: I remember now because we started interviewing you before you were 18. GP: Well, I'm 21. I'm post-towers, so that's always kind of fun. LR: I guess you are. GP: Uh-huh, post-towers. I get that all the time. Whenever I'm like, “I'm born in ‘02,” they're like, “Oh my gosh, you're after 9/11.” I'm like, “Yeah, and? I don't know…” LR: You don't know any different. 2 GP: Yeah. LR: All right. [To Kyle] Go ahead. I'm sorry. KJ: You're okay. [To Garrett] You said a little bit about your siblings, but in terms of where you fall in the lineup, how old are they compared to you? GP: I have an older brother. He's six years older than me, and then three years after him, there's my older sister. She's actually here at Weber State, and then three years after her, there's me, and then six years after me, there's my youngest sister. KJ: Okay, so there was a little bit of a gap between the six years from your brother to you— GP: To the six years to my younger sister. KJ: Did you ever feel, growing up, like the gap made any of a difference for you or your sister? Do you feel like she or you or your oldest brother ever took on a parental role for the younger kids at all? GP: Yes. Not for me. I mostly enjoyed it because it meant that when I was in junior high and high school, I was never at it with my siblings. It meant that I was able to create my own identity at school without having a sibling attached to that. My younger sister, she's a little more on the anxious side. A lot of the women in my family are, and so my older sister kind of took on a parental role with her. Having been able to manage her own anxiety, she was able to share that information. She still lives at home, so she's like a second mom to my younger sister. KJ: Going back to elementary school days—where did you attend elementary school? GP: I attended first Majestic Elementary. That was like kindergarten, first grade-ish, and then there was a boundary change and I went to North Ogden Elementary. KJ: Do you have any favorite memories you'd like to share from that time, if you can remember anything? 3 GP: I didn't remember much of Majestic. I remember playing soccer outside before school started or playing in the snow. I remember the principal would come make snowmen with us. It was kindergarten, first grade. I don't remember a ton of that. KJ: Now what about the elementary school you attended after that? GP: North Ogden Elementary, there was nothing too crazy about there. I mean, I really liked jump rope at recess. That was kind of my jam, but it was elementary. It was, as far as I'm aware, pretty normal. I guess I don't have much of a benchmark for that, but. KJ: At what point—and we don't have to touch on it if we're not to that point yet—but at what point growing up did you start to realize that you were a little bit different, in the queer sense? GP: Oh, I didn't. I knew I was different since I was very young, but I didn't realize it was a queer thing. I always knew that I was different from the other guys. I didn't like sports as much. I preferred more scientific things, but I was like, “Oh, I'm just a brainiac. I'm not a jock. That's clearly what's different here. That's all that's up.” That's what I thought for the longest time. KJ: Okay, when did that start? Do you remember? GP: That started in probably the third or fourth grade because I had three other cousins that are my age, and my extended family is very close. We'd all get the same things for Christmas every year, and my grandmother would get us all like basketballs or footballs. The other cousins would be jazzed, and I'd be like, “What the fuck do I do with this? Genuinely, what do I do with this?” The only sport I played was soccer, which is the only sport my other cousins didn't play, so it was always kind of focused on those like more masculine sports. 4 KJ: Interesting. As we move through and talk about different schooling up until you finally realize it, if you wouldn't mind touching on anything you can remember where you feeling different manifested itself? Does that make sense? GP: Yes. Oh, I assimilated with the nerds in elementary because of it. I played Dungeons and Dragons, I played Pokémon, like I was all about it because I wasn't an athlete. I had to distance myself as far from traditional masculinity as I could, really. KJ: How did your parents feel? Is your older brother very stereotypically masculine? GP: No, he is like the nerdiest guy you'll meet. He's currently getting his Ph.D. in robotics. He is the math guy. He's the typical computer science guy where he doesn't talk a lot. He's kind of quiet, but just super smart. It was a combination. “I'm not like the other guys, but it's a family thing. I'm like my older brother. He's smart. It's cool. That's what I am, that's why I'm different.” KJ: Is your dad like that at all? GP: A little bit. All of his siblings tried to pursue sports, but as far as I'm aware, he really didn't. He was literally the redheaded stepchild, if that gives any context. I just thought it was a normal family thing for my family to pursue academics more than athletics. KJ: Is there anything else about elementary school that you'd like to share? GP: Nothing really in particular. KJ: So, moving on to junior high, which I know is everyone's favorite time— GP: Favorite time in the world. KJ: How was that for you? GP: It was all right. I was at North Ogden Junior High. That's where I kind of started getting involved with theater a bit. I got involved with student government my ninth- 5 grade year. Junior high wasn't the worst. Like, it wasn't great, but I didn't die, so we're doing good. KJ: I get that. When it comes to doing theater—which is a very stereotypically queer club—did you find that a lot of people in the theater department at that time were queer or had some inkling of it? GP: I didn't meet a single queer person up until my sophomore year of high school. Even if they were out in junior high, I was not aware of it at all. I was sheltered. You'd have to hit me with the train for me to know that someone's gay. LR: Were you sheltered because that's how you just were? Or was it more of a family thing? GP: It was very intentional on my family's part. How I was raised, like any kind of media I was allowed to watch, was very intentional. Any kind of internet access was intentional. Any kind of information I had about the world was very filtered and— intentional is the only real word that I can use to encapsulate that. LR: Just curious, as when you're in junior high, you're exposed to a lot of—Especially in Ogden and North Ogden. Maybe not so much in North Ogden? GP: North Ogden is pretty suburban. LR: You start to see diversity more, and I know more so in high school, but you begin in junior high. How did that sheltered environment affect your junior high? GP: The only diversity I remember shocking me was like people swearing in the halls. I was like, “Oh my God, girls and boys are kissing in the halls. People are swearing. Everyone's so evil. This is crazy.” I didn't really meet anyone who was a person of color or a different sexuality or even that wasn't Mormon. It was very intentional, both on my behalf. In high school, I can touch on that. My parents made sure of who I hung out with and that we shared the same religious core values. 6 KJ: Did you personally feel strictly super religious at this point in time? Were you fully invested in the church, or were you just kind of—I know some people in junior high don't care one way or another [about their family’s religion]. GP: I was very religious and LDS up until like 2020. Me deconstructing that was all pretty recent in the grand scheme of things. It was like two or three years ago. I was like a firm believer, like I was 100% all-in. I read each of the scriptures every year. Me and my family had scripture study every morning before school. We were as Mormon as Mormon gets. KJ: When you were young, did your parents kind of instill that you'd go on a mission someday? GP: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. My grandpa was mission president, so I have my own Elder Potokar name tags that he gave me when I turned eight, because then my next big step was serving a mission. I got to start getting hyped and excited for that. KJ: On the topic of junior high, is there anything else you wanted to share? GP: No, not really. I mean, that's when I started to find my voice and start to realize what I enjoyed doing when it came to school. That's when I really started developing crushes on guys, looking back. But looking back, it was like, “I just want to be their best friend. They're just cool and look neat and I want to hang out with them all the time. That's not gay or anything. I just like the bros.” KJ: Do you have any examples of that that you want to share? GP: The two biggest ones I can think of—one was in seventh grade. There was a guy that played baseball that I was head-over-heels for, looking back. We had nothing in common, but he had the cutest smile and my young gay ass was like, “He's just so cool and nice and I want to hang out with him all the time.” Looking back, that was not the case at all. [The other] was my ninth-grade year when I was first in student gov. I was elected in with a bunch of other people that had been in it before, and 7 there's this one kid that had been president every year. Everyone in the squad had a big crush on him, and I was no exception. I was the president that year, so he was kind of like my bully that year, but I also had the biggest crush on him. It was an interesting dynamic there. LR: Speaking of student government, what led you to want to be a part of that? GP: I joined it by accident, to be completely honest. My older sister was running at the high school and I'd kind of wanted to join. But then I quickly learned that those kids were kind of mean, so I was like, “I don't really want to be a part of it.” But my sister was running at the high school and she was like, “I'll get you Zeppes,” or it was some sort of treat, “if you even try to run.” I was like, “Okay. I don't have many friends, but I'll run.” So I made some Napoleon Dynamite posters, and I made it through the first round and into skits. I had no friends to be in skits with me, so I did the Napoleon Dynamite dance, and I had an Afro at the time. I had the ‘fro and the shirt and just went out and did the dance and people lost their shit. That's kind of how that worked out. LR: So, you didn't mean to? GP: No. LR: But you ended up being in the student government. GP: Yeah. LR: What did you run for? GP: I ran for student body president, and that’s what I got on accident, in all honesty. It was absurd. LR: That was your foray into student government. GP: Yeah. That's kind of what got me into that. KJ: How did you feel after accidentally winning? 8 GP: I was excited because I felt like I could represent the—I didn't know the term queer yet, but I was like, ‘the not-cool kids.’ Like the not-popular kids. “I can totally be like their representative.” I had done a lot of NAL throughout junior high, which is like debate in junior high, so I was very interested in politics and that kind of stuff. I was like, “Cool. Student government. It means government—that's political, right?” It was not, which was unfortunate for me. But that was junior high. KJ: So, moving into high school, just start me off with your first year of high school. How was that? GP: Sophomore year, I both realized I was gay and came out to my parents for the first time. I had to come out to them a total of three or four times as a whole, which was a lot. My dad taught at the high school I was in, and that year it was my sophomore or freshman year that he was put in as bishop as well. He was like my religious leader, my dad and my teacher. [To Lorrie, who expressed sympathy] Thank you. It means a lot. He was in every aspect of my life, and— LR: [To Kyle] I know this doesn't mean much to you because you're not from here. GP: Thank you. It means a lot. It was kind of scary realizing I was gay. I realized it when I saw two guys kissing in the hall at school. That is what did it. I saw two boys kissing in the hall on the way to class, and I went, “That's an option? People do that?” I had no clue that gay people existed or that's what they were. I was told in church that being gay was bad, but nobody explained to me that it was like two guys or two girls kissing. I was like, “Yeah, gay people aren't cool, whatever that means.” Then I saw two guys kissing and I was like, “Oh, shit, I want that. That's real cool.” That kind of sparked a lot. KJ: Interesting. What year was that? GP: That was 2017. Like October 2017 when I started to realize. KJ: Okay. But you still continued being devout for the next three years of your life? 9 GP: Yeah. LR: Okay. GP: As I say, we can dive as into that as you want to. LR: Curiously, so you see this scene playing out in front of you in the hallway. You immediately realize— GP: “Shit, yeah.” LR: How long did it take you after that to actually come out to your parents? GP: It took only like two or three weeks. It was really quick. I had started texting—I knew like one other gay person that wasn't those two people that were kissing, and so I was texting him about it and he started asking me for, like, nudes and uncomfortable things. So, I was like, “Oh my God, this is bad,” and my dad is my bishop, so I was like, “I have to confess that this is happening to me. I have to tell like my bishop and my dad that this is all happening.” It was like this weird combination of things where I was like, “Hey, I cut him off and stopped speaking to him, but just so you know, I'm gay and this guy asked me for nudes.” KJ: That's a lot all at once. GP: Yeah, yeah, yeah. LR: Okay. Did you have to come out to your parents separately? GP: I never had to, like, officially come out to my mom. My dad would drive me to school at seven in the morning, and then I'd go to school, and then I'd have rehearsal and he'd pick me up at seven at night. I didn't get my license till, like, COVID hit, which is kind of embarrassing, but I came out to him on the way to school one day because I knew that I wouldn't see him for the next 12 hours. So, I was like, “If I come out to him now in the car, there's nothing he can do for 12 hours but digest and get his thoughts together, so that's what we're going to do.” That's kind of what I went with. 10 KJ: How was that? GP: I'm going to preface all of this by saying that I love my parents and they are doing much better now, and they've learned a lot through this process, and I'm proud of how far they've come. But they didn't take it well—and they should have had years to realize this. In all honesty, the closet is glass, looking back. But it was straight into conversion therapy, practically, and that's a lot of what kept me devout for the next few years. LR: I'm sorry, I don't mean to hijack, but when you say conversion therapy—? GP: There's a lot of different types. LR: Was this just kind of homegrown conversion therapy? GP: This was church-sanctioned, church-ran conversion therapy where I would meet with a therapist every—It was either Tuesday or Wednesday afternoon after school for like two hours, and they would treat it like it was a mental illness. Everything that was wrong in my life, any bad feeling I had, it was all because I'm gay. It wasn't traditional means, which are very physically intensive, and I'm very grateful I didn't have to go through that. But it was definitely very mental and emotional, and it took a while to get past that stigma of going to therapy and made it really hard to see a therapist like later in life. LR: No, I can appreciate that. KJ: How long did that continue? GP: I was in it for about three months, and in this time—this is kind of the funny bit. I also had a boyfriend my sophomore year of high school that my parents had no clue about. So, while I was going to conversion therapy, I was also making out with this guy in the back of his car. It was a lot at once. KJ: Back up a second. How did you meet this boyfriend? 11 GP: He was in theater with me, so that's kind of how we met. He was actually one of the guys I saw kissing in the halls. So those two broke up, and I was like [tucks hair behind ear sassily]. LR: How long between you seeing them kissing in the hall the first time and realizing that you were gay did you get together with this guy? GP: Oh, it was like a month. Those two only dated for a week. It wasn’t a long-term relationship. Me and his ex are now, like, best friends. We hang out almost every week. He's great. We love him, and we both just shit on him because he was terrible. He outed me to, like, half the school in the end, and that's why I'm like, “Weber High was rough being gay, but nobody outed me to my dad.” Throughout all of high school, my parents thought I was still in the closet, which I'm grateful for because they made it rather clear that if I wasn't in the closet, I wasn't welcome at home. Everyone might have teased me for being gay, but nobody told my dad because that was taking it too far. I am grateful for that. KJ: Was the school environment—I know you said it was kind of rough and people teased you. Were there lots of queer couples that would openly display affection, or was that kind of like a one-off thing? GP: No, it was like a one-off thing. I saw that my sophomore year and never again in high school. Kind of glad I had that formative event happen because then it would have never happened in high school. KJ For sure. LR: I have two questions. GP: Yeah. LR: Did you immediately jump into theater when you went into high school? Was that just, “I'm doing this?” 12 GP: Yeah. It was the thing to do at my high school, which is hard to explain. In junior high, it was like, “All right.” I was a techie throughout junior high until we switched directors. She made me audition. I was like, “Okay, I'll be in your show.” But I had a severe stutter. It was really bad back then. I was like, “I don't know why you're casting me because I cannot say more than two words without fucking up.” But I got to high school and the director there was phenomenal. Our casts were usually like 150 people. It was the cool thing to do. All the student gov kids were in theater. If you're on the football team, nobody really gave two shits. But if you're a lead in the show, Oh my God, school celebrity, you are popular. It's hard to explain that theater was not an outcast thing at Weber High. It was the thing to do. LR: That's good to know. Then, did you keep doing student government? GP: I did it my sophomore year and my senior year. I took a break junior year because I was taking a lot of AP classes, so I was like, “There's no way I'm doing that.” LR: All right. Was it an outright conversation that your parents had with you, that if you're going to be openly gay, you can't—? GP: It was very implied. If you confronted them about it now, I'm almost certain that they'd be like, “No, we never said that.” But it was also really heavily implied that we have a good last name—if you know a Potokar, we're all first cousins or closer— and me leaving the church or being gay would soil that, and they can't have any part of that happening. It was like this weird honor-implied “there's no place for that here” thing. LR: Yeah, I get that. Knowing this, did you feel like you were living two lives? GP: Oh, absolutely. LR: One where you could be yourself at school, but then you have to go home and pretend? 13 GP: A little bit, because a lot of my friends throughout school were Mormon. I was really involved in seminary throughout all of high school. I did truly believe in the church. But I also truly believed that the church would one day accept gay people or that it wasn't that big of a deal, even though in seminary I’d often hear the debate of like, “What's worse, a murderer or a faggot?” which isn't a fun conversation to have around you, so. LR: No, it's not. GP: Looking back, there's a lot of cognitive dissonance where like during the day I get to be openly—I thought I was bi back then, so like bi—around my friends, but then I'd go home and be sobbing and praying for like two hours that God would take this away from me. That was high school. KJ: I have a couple questions. When you came out to your parents, did your siblings know about it? Did they tell them? Did you tell them? GP: My siblings didn't find out until I formally came out years later. They had no clue for the rest of my high school experience that I was gay. KJ: Then you said he outed you to the school, your ex. GP: Yeah. KJ: When you were together, did people know about it? Were you open at school? GP: No. We were not open at school at all. I made that very clear, but he would not shut up about me. He'd be like, “I'm dating someone. He has curly hair and is in student government.” Like, bitch! There's one person that matches that description. You might as well have said my name. LR: Okay. We haven't really talked a lot about how your mom felt about you coming out. You said you never really had to come out to her? GP: Yeah. LR: Did she just know? 14 GP: No, my dad told her. I just wasn't there for that conversation. She is a little more anxious than my dad, and I mean that in the nicest way. She just cares so much, especially having been a stay-at-home mom. She had watched a lot of her family kind of fall apart from leaving religion, and my dad had been witnessing a bit of that, and then they met. Religion is stability for them, so the idea of me stepping away from that was basically like me dying. She was very anxious about that as a whole. I never talked about my sexuality much with my mom because it would usually end up like with her in tears and me in tears and yelling and whatnot. KJ: Interesting. As you moved through high school, how did your relationship with your sexuality change? GP: I thought I was bisexual until probably my junior or senior year. I'd been trying to really kiss girls and get into it. Then I was like, “It's not working!” This might be a bit explicit. I touched a boob for the first time and I literally cried. It was an accident. It was through a friend's shirt. Her backpack slipped, and I tried to catch it and accidentally cupped her boob. I was in a bathroom stall for like 15 minutes, just like, [despondent wailing]. First off, I need to repent. I touched a woman, this is bad. Then I was like, “That was so gross. I have to marry that. Oh, my God, no, I cannot do that.” That's when I realized I don't like girls. So, no offense to girls, I'm sure boobs are lovely, but they really freaked me the fuck out that day. I was like, “Yeah, just guys.” KJ: Moving back a little bit, you said you were only in that church-sanctioned therapy for about three months. How did you complete the program? GP: I told my parents it worked, and that's what got me out of it. I kind of hit a point mentally where it was like, “I cannot keep going to this or it will have really bad effects on me.” I'm going to be like, “It worked. I'm straight. I don't need this 15 anymore. Thanks.” That's why I had to come out multiple times for them to really get it. KJ: This might skip ahead a little bit. When was the next time you came out? GP: I came out to them again my junior or senior year. KJ: What led to that? GP: They caught me hanging out one-on-one with a guy that they knew was gay, so they assumed the worst. They're kind of fair to assume the worst in this situation. It was this big talk of like, “Are you still feeling that?” I was like, “No, not with him,” because I did just want to be friends with him. But I learned that that wasn't his intent, so that's why I said it’s fair for my parents to assume the worst. I was like, “He's just a friend, but yeah, I do still struggle with this. That is still a thing. Sorry.” LR: So, you didn't actually explicitly come out and say, “I'm gay?” Just that it's still a struggle? GP: Yeah, I said, “I'm still struggling with same-sex attraction,” because I never told them I'm gay. It was always, “I struggle with same-sex attraction.” It's a battle. The little hair tuck. LR: I just love it. GP: “I struggle with it. It's hard.” KJ: Did you date multiple guys throughout high school? GP: No, just the one. I had a crush on one guy for the rest of high school who was, like, chronically stupid. I still think he's gay, but he was just so—"So bimbo” is the best way to describe him. He was really oblivious. LR: Was there ever, when you were in high school, a place where you felt like you could just be yourself? I asked that because when you're home, you can't be yourself. 16 You have to be really careful in high school because your dad works there. Where do you feel just like, “I can be me?” GP: I never had that, really, to be honest. I had a few friends that I could tell I would be safe with and be able to hang out with. But they weren't Mormon, so I wasn't allowed to hang out with them. It wasn't this explicit like, “They're not Mormon, you can't hang out with them.” But I'd be like, “Hey, Mom and Dad, these friends want to hang out. Can I go hang out with them?” They’d be like, “We just have a bad feeling about it. No, sorry. The Spirit's telling us it's wrong and it's because they're gay and not Mormon.” I actually live with one of them now. One of them is my roommate now. She's lovely. LR: That's interesting. GP: Yeah. KJ: Were you able to find other explicitly queer friends throughout high school, or if you did have them, did you know they were queer before you became friends with them? GP: No, it was just friends that I was friends with. You know how I said I met like no gay people in junior high? It's because they were all coming out in high school. I was already friends with them at that point, and then they were starting to come out. KJ: Were any of them out to the school and everything like that? GP: A lot of them were. The vast majority of them were. I was one of like three closet cases that I was aware of, but there were probably a dozen or two dozen people that were out. Most of them were out as bi, so it was pretty casual. They would still do straight things at dances and whatnot. I'm not saying that bi people have it easy or anything. Bi erasure is a massive issue, but— 17 KJ: Do you think that being surrounded by all those people who were out and loud and proud about it helped you feel more comfortable, or do you think it kind of did the opposite? GP: I'm going to say it was net neutral because there were some people that were amazing to be around and were so nice. I was like, “Yeah, being gay is okay.” But then there were some—I remember there was this one bitch, and I call him a bitch in the most derogatory way because he was legitimately an asshole who I'll never forget. It was my junior year and I just won prom king, and I was thrilled about this. He came up to me, looked me dead in my eyes—and he wore a lot of drag to school. He was the most flamboyant person, and I always thought his style was cool. I respected him until this. Looked me dead in my eyes, and he said, “You only won because you're straight.” I was like, “Okay, half the school knows I'm gay, first off, so that's kind of funny.” But I didn't know what to say. Then he got drunk and trashed me on social media that night. So, there were some gay people that had a very positive effect, and there were some experiences like that where I was like, “Oh, being gay is a sin. If I ever decide to be gay, I'm gonna end up drinking and saying those mean things and it won't be okay.” I just had a broad spectrum of representation, so it didn't happen positive or negative, really. KJ: Your dad, in a lot of aspects of your life, filled a lot of roles that should ideally be filled by different people. GP: No, that's fair. KJ: Did you have anyone, a teacher or an adult in your life that you felt you could trust, even if it wasn't with the aspect of being queer? GP: I really didn't in high school. The real figure that helped me come out was after high school when I was working a job as tech support for the school district. She was a 18 librarian and she was the one that was pretty recently ex-Mormon. I met her and she had your haircut [to Lorrie] and it was bright purple. I was like, “Yeah, we're going to be friends. This is going to work out.” She really helped me walk through my guilt and shame and drop all of that. She has the coolest space because it's so blatantly a safe space for anyone of any background, race, class, gender. Everyone's welcome there and it's apparent. It's even helped me as an adult, which was really cool. KJ: Moving towards that, because you said that was it after you graduated: is there anything else from the rest of high school that you want to share before we move towards exiting high school? GP: No, that was pretty much it. I was aggressively Mormon for all of high school, but also really gay. That kind of summarizes all of it. I did graduate, to touch on like the mission thing, because I know that that was a big expectation. I did graduate into COVID, and since it was COVID, I was able to give my parents the excuse of like, “The Lord wants me face-to-face. I wouldn't be a good Facebook missionary. You know how talkative I am. I can't do that electronically. It's not what the Lord has in mind.” That's why I was able to kind of dip on serving a mission or that stuff until after I came out. LR: You learned to play their game. GP: Oh, yeah. It was like, “I am definitely uncomfortable with the idea of serving a mission and living one-on-one with a guy for two years. I can totally put it out there, it's not my time. Once the pandemic is over,” and before the pandemic was over, I obviously came out. LR: One quick question before we move on. You said in your senior year you did student government. What did you run for? 19 GP: Weber High School, you didn't run for specific positions. You'd run, and there was a president and then there were vice presidents, and that was it. Junior high was the most popular vote as president. My senior year, it was the most popular vote, a faculty vote, and an admin interview. I was so mad I didn't get president that year because I won the popular vote by a lot. I was like, “Fuck, losing is the worst.” But yeah, it wasn't that deep. LR: Okay. [To Kyle] You might be asking this, but since I'm talking, [To Garrett] what was graduation like for you? GP: My dad, being the film teacher, was over graduation, so I helped edit it. That was really cool. I got to see all of my friends’ graduation. I had a really big graduating class, so I didn't know half the people that were graduating. I was sad to miss the graduation afterparty because they'd rent out Classic Fun Center for the whole night, like even into 2 or 3 a.m., and that sounded so fun. So, I'm sad I didn't get that, but otherwise I was like, “Oh no, I don't have to listen to old people talk. Everyone's sad and giving me money.” 2020 was the year to graduate in. I feel bad for the class of 2021 because they actually lost a school year. My school had had our senior play. We had had our prom. I didn't miss anything, really. I was chillin’. LR: Yeah, that's true. KJ: That summer after you graduated, it was when COVID was really big. That would have been summer 2020? GP: Yeah. KJ: Being stuck at home with your family, with nowhere to go and nowhere to be gay— how was that for you? GP: It was a lot. My family—I'm kind of surprised about this, but also really proud of my parents—they took it so seriously. I did not get to leave the house between March and, I think it was June or July, which was like, “Cool. That's the right thing to do.” 20 But I am stuck around religion constantly. There is a picture of Jesus in every single room, including my own. I cannot have a moment of peace. So, I would stay up really late and do art and drawing until 2 and 3 a.m. because that was my alone time. Otherwise, it was family activities constantly, which is great. I love my family, but that's a lot of family time. I needed some gay time and I needed it alone. KJ: Is art something you've always been interested in, or did you pick it up during the pandemic? GP: No. I did a lot of art through high school. It was never traditional art. I did a lot of street art, so like spray paint, alcohol markers, graffiti-looking stuff. That was like my outlet for any kind of emotion I wasn't supposed to be feeling or that felt not good. KJ: How did you get into that? GP: I don't really know. I either have autism or ADHD because hyperfixations are a massive thing for me, and I at one point just saw a really cool train with street art on it and hyperfixated on graffiti. I was like, “This is the coolest shit I've ever seen.” There was a solid month where it was like, “I need to learn everything,” and then it just kind of stuck. KJ: What was your plan for after graduation? Did you have one? GP: I had no clue. I wanted to move out badly, so I lined up an ambassadorship at UVU, which was crazy. Out of 400 applicants, I was one of two people chosen. The last round they watched 60 of us in a room, just at like a social party. They were at the borders, just watching. It was freaky. So, I made it in, and that would have been like housing, full ride, meals, all of it. Then I found out they didn't have a sales program and only Weber State has a sales program. I knew that's what I wanted to do, so I was like, “Fuck, I'm still going to be living at home.” That was just the reality of it. So, I switched like a week before classes started, and luckily Weber State kept my scholarship academically, so I was able to go here and live at home. 21 KJ: What made you want to go into sales? GP: I love tech. I'm such a big tech nerd. I'm a massive computer programmer, IT, smart home, all of it. I love technology. I wanted to be a computer science major and then I worked that one IT job for the school district and no one was social. Nobody knew how to fucking communicate to save their lives. The reason that tech supports don't do good in the school district is because they want to hole up. They don't want to talk to anyone. They don't want to talk to the teachers. They don't want to hear about their problems, they just want to be in and out and they want to work with computers and nothing else. I was like, “No, I want to meet the people and stuff.” It sucked not having any extroverted coworkers at all. I was like, “I can't do this forever if that's my field, so if I can't do it, I'll sell it.” KJ: That makes sense. Did you have a job in high school? GP: I worked at a scout camp in the summers. It was pretty great. KJ: When did you get your first job? GP: That was my first real job, IT. KJ: When was that? GP: So, I started repairing Chromebooks for the school district in June after graduating, and I did that through August. Then they were like, “Hey, do you want to be a fulltime actual tech?” I was like, “Yeah, that sounds great. All my classes are online. I can do that.” KJ: Okay, so you started that fall at Weber and were doing the tech stuff? GP: Yeah. It was really easy to do homework at that job, though. There was a lot of downtime. KJ: You started at Weber during the pandemic. Was that in 2020 when all classes were online? GP: Yeah. 22 KJ: Do you feel like you missed anything? GP: Weber State does not have the biggest social life, so I feel like I didn't miss anything because I was knocking out my gen eds. I was like, “Oh, no, I don't get to go to class for English 2010. I really don't give a fuck.” None of my teachers knew how to do it online, so that made it a little bit easier. They were more forgiving with deadlines and a little easier with their coursework. It was like the perfect storm of like, “Oh, now I'm making adult money, building up a savings account, and knocking out my generals pretty easily.” The pandemic was really good for me. I know that's really weird to say, but it spring-boarded me into adulthood really smoothly. KJ: When during all this did you finally come out to your parents with the blatant, "It's not just a phase?" GP: I don't remember it all clearly because it was near the start of the school year that I made friends with Laura and she's like a second mother to me. I see her all the time. I go to her tattoo appointments with her. She's great. She's the one that helped me drop everything, all my shame and guilt. I just remember it was winter and it was near like Christmas, New Year's. I can't remember if it was before or after. I had hopped on dating apps back in October, November. Laura had got me on to them to be like, “Hey, just go meet guys. You can tell your parents it's college friends that you're meeting or events. They're not going to know any better.” I was like, You're right. They won’t.” So, I was going on dates and stuff, and there was this one guy I'd started seeing, and he gave me his hoodie and it was super sweet. My dad walked into my room one night without knocking and I was wearing a hoodie and it was like a different high school’s hoodie. He walked in. He was like, “What's that? Where did you get that?” I was like, “Yeah, so I'm gay. This is a different guy’s hoodie, sorry.” At that point, I was much more comfortable coming out because I had started planning 23 moving out, and I had been planning on coming out. I officially dropped the church in November. I wrote this letter and I was like, “Yeah, this is bullshit. I'm out.” Mentally, I was out at that point. I didn't stop attending until February. That was great to stop attending. Then I moved out that May. I knew my parents—since I had a plan to move out, they couldn't really kick me out. But I also knew that if I moved out and came out, they'd sweep it under the rug and kind of act like I wasn't gay. Coming out at home was always my plan to be like, “Hey, I'm gay, and you have to accept this. If you want me around, this is going to be something that you have to deal with.” KJ: So, was the spring semester of 2021 online as well? GP: Yeah. KJ: I wasn't here at that point. When did it go back to normal? GP: I didn't go on to campus until I think spring ‘22. KJ: That was my first semester here, so I didn't know anything other than that. You moved out. Where did you move into? GP: I moved into a place on like 12th and Harrison, right by that Smith's. There's a little apartment complex there. I moved in with a friend from high school. She was black and bisexual. I was like, “Yeah, I'm going to move in with you. You're queer. I'll finally get to be gay. This is lovely.” So, I moved in. I lived with her for about a year before my current living situation. KJ: How was that, just finally being able to just be yourself? GP: Oh, it was lovely. It was so good. I got my ears pierced while still living at home, but I got to start dressing gay. I started painting my nails and I got to really start expressing myself, which was phenomenal. It's crazy how good it is for your mental health and also your relationship with your family to move out. It was good for all parties involved. 24 KJ: So, were you still dating the same guy? GP: No, I actually never saw that guy after getting caught. I still have that hoodie. He lived down in Cedar, so I went out with him once in person. We had been talking and facetiming for like a month or two before that. Then one day, he gave me his hoodie. We talked for a few weeks and then he ghosted me out of nowhere. I was like, “I have your graduation hoodie. All your friends signed this. I don't know what the fuck to do with this, dude. I don't know.” So, I still have that hoodie. I use it as a paint hoodie. KJ: Did you continue with the dating apps while you were living on your own? GP: Oh, yeah. If anything, I picked up on it more. I wasn't on just Tinder. I was on like Bumble and Hinge and any app I could really be on. KJ: Did you have any serious relationships at that point, or were you just kind of getting used to being able to be with men? GP: When I was first moving out, I had a partner and that lasted like a month or two, and then I found out he was a Trump supporter, so that ended it. He was not a critical thinker, so I was like, “I can't do that.” I mean that in the rudest way. He was not a critical thinker; not a critical thought in that boy's head. Then there was my second partner, and that was after I moved out. That was like October, so I'd only been moved out for a few months. He was the personal trainer, the fitness guy for the Air Force. He was fine, but he was also, I later found out, a Trump supporter. At this point, because of the ex in highschool, I had been three for three with exes being Trump supporters, so I was not doing too great. That ended those relationships pretty quickly. KJ: What is the overlap with queer men and Trump supporters? I don't understand it. 25 GP: I have no clue. It's something to do with the cognitive dissonance of being in Utah. “Yeah, it's gay people, but that doesn't include me. I'm masculine. I'm not one of those femme fags.” “No, dude, you're gay. He hates you too, bitch.” KJ: As you get to go back to being on campus, at what point did you start looking into student government? GP: Really quickly. My first year back on campus, my sister was one of the vice presidents in the student association. I was going to all the events to support her, and I quickly realized, “Oh, if I want to make friends, I need to be in the student association.” In the pandemic, I'd worked as a graphic designer for her. When I moved out, I was still working as a graphic designer in the president's cabinet and stuff. I tried to push for the LGBT seat once during the pandemic, but since it was the pandemic, I couldn't get any support. Then when everyone went in person, the GSA was able to push for it and get it through. So, I heard that it had opened up and I was like, “Cool. I'm kind of a part of the student association. I'm going to apply for it.” So, I applied, interviewed, and that's kind of what got me involved. I've always loved politics and parliamentary procedure, so I was like, “Yeah, like I'm going to be fucking applying for this. This is actual student government. This puts the government in student government.” It's amazing. KJ: That was last year. Was that 2022? GP: Yeah, that was not last spring but the spring before. It was spring ‘22 then. I was LGBT student senator for that one semester, and that was like the first semester it was open, and I put them through hell. I was introducing legislation, probably two or three pieces of legislation almost every week, and it's normal for a senator to introduce like one or two for the entire year that they're in the Senate. It was like 26 every week I was going up and like, “Hey, I have new legislation for us.” I was not scared to be mean. We passed this one bill about wanting Weber State to publish a piece saying that we don't support the ban against transgender athletes, and a lot of people, instead of voting no, were just abstaining and not voting. But that meant we didn't have enough people voting to pass it. I was going through the voting records and openly calling those people transphobic in front of the Senate. I was like, “Hey, Senator, you didn't vote. You abstained. Why do you hate trans people? I'd like to hear this for the stance. This is being recorded, just so you know.” I had to be very upfront to get anything to pass. That kind of snowballed into some things changing, which was good. LR: How was that received, being that— GP: That forceful? LR: Forceful. GP: Some did not receive it well. I was probably the most polarizing person in the Senate because I joined halfway through the year and then I was doing more than anyone else instantly, and I was being more aggressive than anyone else very quickly because nobody would move unless I was. There was two or three other queer people in the Senate already, so they helped me out a lot. Bex Bagget is the best example of it. They were the student senator for students with disabilities, so they were already in another role. They didn't want to apply for this other one, and they were doing a lot of activism there. But having queer people already in the Senate was huge, and a lot of the other affinity-based senators were huge on supporting me because I was supporting them and pushing just as hard for their bills. KJ: How do you spell the name you just mentioned? 27 GP: It is B-E-X B-A-G-G-E-T, I believe. KJ: Awesome. How many total people were there on the Senate? GP: There's 20-something people on the Senate. There's one for every single college and every affinity group on campus. The College of Social and Behavioral Sciences, the College of Arts and Humanities, the EAST College: they all have student senators in them. It's also like Hispanic Student Senator, a Pacific Islander Student Senator, an Asian Student Senator, and now an LGBT one as well. There's representation for everyone, which is cool because no other schools have that. It's just the colleges in their Senate and all they handle is club funding. We're really the only Senate that's activism-based, and that's really underutilized on campus. LR: Yeah, how interesting. I didn't know that. GP: Most of my constituents when I talked to them had no clue that there was a Senate. They'd be like, “You're the LGBT Student Senator? What's the student Senate?” I was like, “Are you fucking kidding me?” because there was a lot of drama with me getting in because I'd never been involved with the GSA, because the GSA in high school kind of scared me. It was the kind of people that kind of kept me in the closet a little bit, so I didn't get involved with them at college, even though I learned they were lovely people. They didn't love me being in that position since I hadn't been involved in activism on campus. There was a lot of tension there for my term. LR: I know that there wasn't someone in the position of leadership with the LGBTQ+ Center on campus for a while. How do you think that affected that center? I'm just curious. I'm not really wording the question well. GP: Just like, what's my opinion on that lack and how it affected it? LR: Yeah. 28 GP: It affected it a lot, in my opinion. Weber State has the queerest campus in Utah by far. I have yet to have a class where there isn't a queer person, and that includes the sales program, which is really saying something. We have an extremely queer campus, at least compared to the other campuses I've been on. Not having a solid center for that means a lot of these grassroot movements are very disconnected because even a lot of queer people I know aren't comfortable being in the GSA. The GSA in high school tended to be furries, and that's not the case in college. That isn't the case at all, but mentally, it's hard to get over that and work through that and be like, “Oh yes, I can be in the GSA. This is actually now a good thing. This isn't the kids that barked at me in the hallways anymore. This is an actual activism source.” KJ: Were you only involved with the student Senate for that one term? GP: No. I ran for executive vice president the next year, so I was running the Senate for this whole last year. Instead of being a senator, I was running the meetings and enforcing parliamentary procedure and recruiting people to be on the Senate. KJ: How was that after, like you said, being one of the most polarizing people on the Senate? How were you received as now being in charge of this? GP: Oh, it was great. A lot of people do Senate one time and they're done because it's usually their senior year when they hear about it or they just want the stipend that once. All the people that were returning were the people that tended to like me. They're like, “Oh, you actually get stuff rolling and you can navigate this and you actually care about activism. You're going to get people that care about activism,” because a lot of positions go unopposed. If anybody is watching this, run for Senate. Not only is it an $800 scholarship, you will likely run against one other person, if that. 29 Usually, it's the executive vice president going out and finding people to put into those roles because so few actually try and do it. They knew that I'd find people that also cared about activism and wanted to make change. I was able to make a lot of change to how our meetings were ran and make them more accessible to the public. We had a lot more public involvement this last year. That's Isaac Staszkow in that position [now]. He's a PoliSci major and he's doing phenomenal things in the role. It's cool seeing how my work has built into his a little bit. LR: What are you doing now? GP: I'm not involved in leadership now, which kind of sucks, but I am doing a program in sales, so I am majoring in professional sales with an emphasis in computer science. I'll be getting a certificate in cybersecurity. It's like a degree with a triple minor is like the workload that I have, pretty much. It is a lot. To graduate in sales, for at least a semester, you have to have this full-time sales job, and that's like a six-credit class that you have to take. It's just having the job. I knew I wanted to leave my job because I wanted to work at that camp again this summer because I haven't worked there since I came out. I wanted to return there and be able to work there as adult staff and be good representation to queer youth that work there. Working at a Boy Scout camp is really gay. I was like, “I want to be good representation up there for those queer youth as well.” So, I already knew I wanted to quit my job and I knew I had to find a sales job and I knew I wanted to work at camp. I was like, “Cool. I'll line up a sales gig for when I get home.” I'm already working that full-time job, and that's why I don't have time for student government. All my classes are already pushed online for that. I’m just starting my career. LR: Gotcha. How are you still involved on campus if you're not actively involved in government? 30 GP: I'm still kind of navigating that. A lot of what I'm doing is networking people into being involved. I had a few people that I worked at the camp with that are just starting here at Weber State, and there were even some that are queer. I was like, “Hey, you should be in the Senate. You'll get a scholarship, you'll get to be an activist.” They're like, “Oh my God, I didn't know that this existed. That's cool that there's a route for student activism.” A lot of it's letting people know that Weber has events and has student activism and just directing them towards it. I still help a little bit just because my sister is still the student body president. She was last year, she is this year, so I got to be her right-hand man last year. This year she's still in that position. I'm not, but I still hear a lot and kind of help out a bit because of that. KJ: How was the experience? How were you received in the scouts camp that you worked at after now being out? GP: Oh, it was great. It was lovely. A lot of people were shocked because I went from being like—I was helping around Sunday school camp. I went from being like the religious kid to the guy with tattoos and piercings who wore a lot of spikes all summer. It was an aggressive change. A lot of people were shocked, but a lot of people really liked it. A lot of my friends from back at camp have since left religion or came out as queer themselves. It was cool seeing both the youth that were openly gay and adults that are as well. KJ: Just a few final things because I think we're nearing the end of our time. GP: Yeah. KJ: Since moving out, how has your relationship with your family changed? GP: It's gotten a lot better. My parents have learned a lot. My dad the other day actually apologized for how he handled me coming out, which was really sweet, and it was unprompted too, so that was cool. They have also pretty quickly realized that if they 31 start talking too much religion or trying to force that stuff on me, I will leave. I will just go. I'm not going to say anything mean. I'm not going to get mad at them, but I will go. I'll see myself out. They've gotten a lot better at respecting that and realizing that, “Oh, if we don't let him express himself or if we make too many comments, he'll go.” They’ve just kind of chilled. They don't talk about it now, so that’s nice. KJ: What about your siblings? GP: My siblings handled it great. My older brother and his wife were super accepting, like really no qualms. They live in Pennsylvania, though, so I don't see him too much. My older sister didn't get it at first. She was shocked I was gay. She wanted to be supportive. She listened to a lot of podcasts and stuff about guys that were still Mormon and gay. Then she got into her student government position and she instantly had to learn a lot about problems in the world. I remembered her openly telling me in the 2020 election, “Why do you care so much? Nothing's going to change based on who the president is. It's not that big a deal.” I was like, “It's not that big a deal for you. As someone who's gay, this could be life-changing. This is scary.” She didn't get it at the time and now she does. She fought to get the Dream Center on campus that they're currently trying to set up. She now leaves dates early if she finds out that they're pro-life or anti LGBT, she's gone. She's come a long way. She still doesn't get a lot of politics terminology because my parents kind of shielded us from politics while growing up. But she really is like the biggest advocate and a huge ally. KJ: Do you feel that you can be a good influence on your younger sister now that you're out? GP: Yes, that's actually a big thing that I've tried to intentionally do, is show her like, “Hey, gay people aren't the worst. I'm not necessarily going to Hell. Your friends that aren't Mormon can still be your friends. It's not that big of a deal in the end.” My 32 parents have also made it clear that if I push too many atheist or pagan-type ideals on her, that won't go down well. I'm not like openly saying, “Leave Mormonism,” but it is like, “Hey, like I am still respectable even though I'm not Mormon.” I’m just being a good example that way and just supporting her any way that I can, whether that's her being religious or not. KJ: Are you out to any of your extended family? GP: Yeah. This is the funniest story. I love telling this. I had only come out to my grandma and grandpa in person and they handled it great. My grandma, whenever we're on vacation, my nails have to match her. She wants matching earrings. She has handled it extremely well and it makes my dad uncomfortable. He's like, “Mom, you can't encourage this.” She's like, “You won't tell me what to do. I'm your mother.” She is lovely. I love my grandma. She's just great. So, I made that LGBT student senator position, and they did a little local news piece on campus, and that got picked up by KSL, which then got picked up by ABC. I was pretty quickly in national news for being the LGBT student senator really quickly. That's how I came out to all of my extended family on national news. That was kind of cool. KJ: How did they take it? GP: They just didn't talk about it. I didn't hear anything about it. I heard a lot from my mom's side, but that was because as I was coming out, a lot of them have left the church. I didn't know them well growing up because as they left, my mom wouldn't see them as much. I'm not going to say she'd cut ties because she'd stay in contact, but we just wouldn't see them as much. I used to see them every month, but as they started to leave the church, it was like once a year. So, I got to reconnect a lot of 33 ties, and they're like, “Oh, we always knew you were the rainbow sheep. It's glad to see you're finally out.” I was like, “Rose, you could have told me I was a faggot sooner.” But it's been good reconnecting with that side of the family as well. I did get to kind of formally come out to them, but the other side was all just over the news, and they've talked to me a bit more because I've been posting about me and my current partner on social media. One family in particular has been like, “We want to meet them. We want to hear all about them. If there's anything we can do to support you—We understand the situation you're probably in, especially with your dad being bishop, and we're sorry about that.” That one family's been very accepting, but I think it helps that one of them is leaving the church a little bit. That's already kind of shaken the family's world view. KJ: Okay. You said you had a current partner right now. GP: Yeah. KJ: How did you meet him? Them? GP: They use they/he pronouns, so either's good. I met them on Grindr, which is embarrassing, I have to admit. We're both ace, so it's really funny that we met on Grindr of all places, so that's kind of ironic. But yeah, that's how we met. KJ: Fair enough. How is that going for you? GP: Really good. We got together in May, so still pretty recent, but it's been good. I mean, he waited for me the whole time I was up in the Tetons with limited cell reception, if any. He came and picked me up there, which was nice, and he'd come and visit some weekends. It's been good. KJ: Does your family know about him? GP: Yeah, they actually met him a few weeks ago, so that was cool. KJ: Did they like him? 34 GP: Oh, yeah, a lot. He's going into education. He's going to be a high school chem teacher, and my whole family works in education. My older sister is going to be a teacher. My other brother is going to be a professor. My dad's a teacher. My mom's an elementary secretary. She used to be a reading aide. My family's all about education, so the second they heard he was going to be a teacher, they're like, “This is great.” Personally, I've not had that good of a time around my family since before I came out, so to have a partner come around, instead of it being a nightmare, it was the best time I've had. That's what mellowed them out. I was like, “The fuck? Are you kidding me?” This is because I've been prepping him. I was like, “They might be passive aggressive. I'm really nervous. I'm kind of scared. I don't want you to be shocked by anything. It isn't great.” Then it was like an excellent time, and I was like, “Something here ain't adding up. What the fuck?” It was like, “This is so confusing, but I can't complain. It's good.” KJ: That's awesome. Before we get into some of the final questions—because that brings us up to right now—is there anything else you want to share? GP: No, that's pretty much all of it. KJ: Okay, just the last couple of questions so we can get you out to your class. What, if anything, would you say to other younger queer kids that might be going through the same thing you did? GP: The biggest thing I can say, and this might be controversial, is to do you. My parents didn't know what the social scene was like at my high school. They thought I'd be crucified for being gay; they thought it would be the end of the world. Nobody really gives a fuck now, at least for most high schools. I can't speak for all of them. I'm sure that some are still a nightmare. But a lot of people that found out, they teased me on occasion, but it wasn't that bad. It really wasn't the end of the world. I 35 was still getting elected into student gov, nobody actually cared that much at that point. The world has gotten a lot more accepting, especially our generation. Parents, there's no need to be scared. It's okay, your kid isn't going to get hurt. The only thing that you can do that will hurt them is not accept them, so if you want them to be a part of your life and to stay safe, the easiest way to do that is to accept them. I've seen a lot of people who are breaking ties with their parents and kind of gone off the deep end a little bit, but that's not on them. That's not necessarily on their parents. But parents, the best thing you can do to keep your kids safe and to keep your relationship together is to just be cool. KJ: There might be an overlap, but is there anything you'd say to your younger self if you could go back in time? GP: Yeah, I would knock myself upside the head and be like, “You can't pray that shit away. It's not going anywhere. It's not going to change. It's not a phase.” There isn't much else I could have done differently in my situation, so I probably would have told myself like, “It will be okay.” My younger self would also be scared to see me with tattoos and piercings, though. Painted nails, too; that would be the end of the world. I would be freaking out younger me, but just let them know that I'm okay. I'm not dying or getting killed. I'm starting a career and doing fine. LR: One last question. What do you think, if anything, Weber State University could do as a whole to make it easier for more diversity on campus? GP: They need to get better at advertising their resources and not tokenizing people. They put me on ads and stuff for being the LGBT Student Center without really telling me, which is okay. It was really funny to get a message—it'd be like, “I saw you in City Creek today.” 36 I'd be like, “I've been in Ogden all day. What do you mean?” But you can't tokenize people. Stop doing that and also make sure that they're aware of the actual resources and really pipeline those. The legislation I rolled out back when I was LGBT student senator was about tracking pronouns on role sheets and in Canvas to make sure that no students are being misgendered. That way professors can be held a little more accountable because a lot of them are misgendering deliberately, and they say, “Oh, I didn't know. How could I have known otherwise?” So, to have it in the system would help with that and also make it so students don't have to come out like their professors. It's just, they use she/her pronouns, so that's what you're going to use and that's what it says in the system. That would be a lot easier. I'm not sure if that's rolled out, but that would be like two years in the making now if it hasn't. Things move slowly, which is okay. It's a university. Especially for things like that where it's a massive quality-of-life change for any queer student to be able to change their preferred name and change their pronouns, because I know I have a preferred name as well. You got to hurry that up. That's specifically for queer students, but I can't speak for students of other minorities or affinity groups. Just making sure that you're actively listening—which our president does a great job of—but make sure that they know you're actively listening. They are, but they're not the most transparent about the fact that they are. A little more transparency and a little more advertising on that is really a lot of what needs to be done. KJ: For sure. [To Lorrie] Anything else? LR: No. We just appreciate your willingness to share. GP: Thank you. I'm an open book. 37