Oral History Program Adrienne Gillespie Andrews Interviewed by Kandice Harris 21 March 2019 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Adrienne Gillespie Andrews Interviewed by Kandice Harris 21 March 2019 Copyright © 2021 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Beyond Suffrage Project was initiated to examine the impact women have had on northern Utah. Weber State University explored and documented women past and present who have influenced the history of the community, the development of education, and are bringing the area forward for the next generation. The project looked at how the 19th Amendment gave women a voice and representation, and was the catalyst for the way women became involved in the progress of the local area. The project examines the 50 years (1870-1920) before the amendment, the decades to follow and how women are making history today. . ___________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Andrews, Adrienne Gillespie, an oral history by Kandice Harris, 21 March 2019, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Adrienne Andrews 2019 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Adrienne Gillespie Andrews, conducted on March 21, 2019 in her office, by Kandice Harris. Adrienne discusses her life, her memories at Weber State, and the impact of the 19th Amendment. Lorrie Rands, the video technician, and Alyssa Dove are also present during this interview. KH: The following is an oral history interview with Adrienne Gillespie Andrews, it is being conducted on March 21, 2019 in Adrienne’s office and the interviewer is Kandice Harris. The subject of this interview is Adrienne’s time spent at Weber State University from 2005 to present. Also present are Alyssa Dove and Lorrie Rands our video technician. When and where were you born? AA: I was actually born here in Ogden, Utah, on January 13, 1974 when the McKay- Dee Hospital was across the street from the University. At that time, Weber State College. My dad was a student here, he actually got a call that went to the registrar’s office and somebody from the registrar’s office found his class and tracked him down and said, “Your wife is in labor, you need to go to the hospital.” It was false labor at that time, but then the next night I was born at 2:30 in the morning. KH: Oh wow. AA: So I have an early Wildcat connection. KH: Yes, you do. Would you talk a little bit about your early life and some historical background? 2 AA: Absolutely. So I was raised in Layton, Utah. My parents, who are still married— they’ve been married for 52 years this summer. KH: Oh nice. AA: It’s pretty awesome. Raised myself and my two older sisters. I grew up knowing that an education was critical. I grew up knowing that voting and campaign and elections were critical. I grew up knowing that I would go to college and I would go to graduate school. I didn’t know what I would study and it was less critical what I would study. It was just more important that I knew that I would be doing those things. Part of my background and my family life was that I had parents who were civically engaged, grandparents who were social justice oriented, and so that was always sort of in the air around me. I grew up believing that everybody does service because that’s the right thing to do. Even when I went to college—and I went to college when I was 16—my mom and dad told me that my job in college was to get good grades, be involved, and to do service. So I found an organization that would allow me to do service, and I volunteered with the Teen Mother and Child Program at the University of Utah hospital. I did that when I was an undergrad student. I worked with these young moms. That was because, that’s what you did, right? You supported the people in your community and you made sure that if you had access they didn’t have, you gave them access and made connections. That was my whole life was growing up and learning information. I grew up as a kid who read the mini page of the Ogden Standard Examiner, which does not exist—it hasn’t existed for two or more decades. But growing up, I read the mini page and my mom would ask 3 me the questions at the end of the page about reading comprehension and did I know what I read. That was very normal to me. I grew up in a home where we had these conversations about the world at our table regularly. Like, “What do you think about this situation?” So I remember being in sixth grade, probably 1985-1986, and civil unrest in South Africa, apartheid issues coming to the fore front. I was boggled by this concept of racial segregation because I knew that that had been American history. But that was so long ago, it was like way back in the ‘60’s, and it’s the 80’s and so, you know, whatever. So to hear about it happening in other places in the world, in the contemporary moment, was shocking to me. Having my mom say, “Well, what would you do?”, “How would you respond?”, “What do you think the responsibility of your neighbors are?”, “…Of your elected leaders?” Right? So this is why it is important to know who you vote for and what they stand for. In my family, when I could finally vote, I was registered on my birthday by my grandmother, Bettye Gillespie—who was a member of the Ogden NAACP, served as its president multiple times. My grandfather was the president of the chapter for over 30 years. So as soon as I could vote I was registered to vote, and the expectation was that I would know about the candidates running for the positions. In my house, when it was electoral season—and of course at this time I’m in college—I would come home from Salt Lake, sit at the table with my parents, sit at the table with my sisters, and we would hash out all of the ballot initiatives, who the candidates were. My parents didn’t care who you voted for, they cared that you knew why you were voting for that candidate. It wasn’t 4 because, “Well, my friends are voting”, or “My parents are voting”. It was, “This person has these priorities and they are aligned with my values, and that’s why I’m going to support this candidate.” So that’s kind of the home life I grew up in. It was really quite amazing and I had just very engaged parents who asked a lot about me, from me, they expected a lot from me, held me to a high standard, and then asked me, “What’s the standard that you hold yourself to?” Right? And “Why?”, “Why do you believe that this is what you should do?”, “Do you think that other people should have that same standard?”, “Why would it be different?”, “Why should it be the same?” They were always asking critical questions and making us reflect on ourselves and our circumstances. If we had access, why didn’t other people have access? Or if we didn’t have access, what did that mean and how could we challenge that and how could we find a way to get into whatever it was that we wanted. So growing up, I had highly engaged, highly activated parents who pushed education, political and civic engagement, and really just wanted us to be happy kids. Long answer, I’m sorry. KH: No, I love long answers. LR: For the record, what are your grandparents and parents’ names? AA: So my grandparents, I’ve got a lot of them. My dad’s parents were married and had four children and at that time they were James Gillespie Sr. and Marquita Gillespie. They divorced, they both remarried. My grandpa Gillespie married Bettye Berliner and they had—he adopted her oldest daughter and then they had 5 two more daughters. Then my grandmother married Wesley Townsend and they had four more children. So a big family, right? An amazing family and that I always just thought I got extra. Because I couldn’t figure it out. All of my friends had, you know, a set on their mom’s side, a set on their dad’s side. I ended with three, but okay. That all works. But they were all engaged in different ways. For example, my father’s mother, Marquita was interested in nursing. My Grandpa Townsend was in the military and he did a lot of work overseas. For a time, they were stationed in Egypt when I was in elementary school. My grandmother helped start a neonatal program and early nursing intervention in the community that they lived in because they didn’t have it and because she had been a nurse in Utah. In my mind, that’s what you did. If you were somewhere and there was a need and you had a skillset, then you just put yourself in there and did the work, right? Because that’s what we’re supposed to do. KH: What did your parents do? AA: So my father was born and raised here in Ogden. He was a police officer here in Ogden in Ogden City Police Department. He left that to become the head of— well, he left that to become an under covered narcotics agent. And did Liquor and Drug Enforcement under cover. Across time, was elevated several times and became the executive director of Utah Liquor and Drug Enforcement. He retired from that on a Friday. On Monday, he started working for the Utah Department of Corrections. My dad was the last of the, “double-dippers”. So he has two full retirements from the state. They were very strategic thinkers. So growing up in my house, as a little kid I remember my parents talking about 6 retirement and talking about retirement plans, and what things they needed to put in place today so that they could live later the way that they wanted to live. The thing that they would say, which resonates with me today is, “If we do for a short time what other people won’t, we will live for a lifetime the way other people can’t.” I think that very much has born out in the amazing life that they have. So he did those two things. When he and my mom were first married, my father was in the military. He was air force military police. He served two tours of Vietnam and I think went into law enforcement because when he came home he had developed that background. That’s sort of where his progression took him. He was also in the army reserves later in his life and did that for a long time. He really felt that was important to have that level of service to the country. My mom was a traditional stay at home mom who was the most untraditional stay at home mom, right? She was working on political campaigns, she was in the PTA, she was Brownie Leader, but she was always pushing the boundaries and saying, “Why isn’t there sex education in the school?” I mean, she had a very different perspective on the world and wanted as much access and knowledge for not only her children, but for all young people. She was just super involved and invested and had deep wonderful relationships that she modeled for us, but she had high standards and she held herself to them. She held us to them as well. She was also the mom that I think almost all of my friends at some point came and had a one-on-one conversation with my mom about something that they couldn’t talk to their own mom about. 7 KH: Oh nice. AA: It’s nice if you are the person coming, it’s not as nice if you’re the daughter of the mom. Because you’re like, “Come on, mom. Whatever.” But my mom was really thoughtful and she would always try and give advice that would lead back to reconnecting to their own mom, their own parents. To figure out, “Well what are ways that you can start to form a relationship where you can have this conversation. So let’s try and figure this piece out. But that relationship is pretty critical and we shouldn’t circumvent it. We should figure out how to improve it.” She was always trying to think in that way. She was queen of the coffee clatch, she always had groups of women who would have coffee and dessert and she would talk politics and push the boundaries and limits of peoples’ experiences and thinking. I think that she was free to do that because she was not from Utah. My mom was born and raised in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. She grew up going to Catholic School her whole life. When she complete Catholic school and married my dad, they moved to California briefly while he was still doing his military duty, and then relocated to Utah when he was done. It was another world. Coming to Utah from that background was definitely another world. But it’s one that is completely her world now. She is a Utahn and it takes a lot to get the Philly out of her voice. It can happen, but it doesn’t happen often. But this is the place for my mom. This is where she raised her family, this is where her marriage has flourished for almost 52 years, and so she is pretty spectacular. KH: She sounds like it. Where did you graduate from high school? 8 AA: I graduated from Layton High School. Growing up in Davis County was growing up in Davis County. It was what it was because that’s what I knew. So sometimes people will say to me, “Well Adrienne, growing up black in Utah, what was that like?” It was like growing up because that’s where I did it. I wouldn’t have something else to compare it to. But I did have experiences that people are looking to hear and understand. So when I was a very young child, I attended E. M. Whitesides Elementary School and it was a lovely school. Our principal was Dr. Stoddard and I remember him being this very tall, thin man with bushy eyebrows, and he was sort of bald on top and hair on the sides, it was graying. He was gentle and he was kind and he was wonderful. I remember that my kindergarten teacher was just Mrs. Blanken, and in my mind I can even smell her perfume because she was so wonderful. So I had this very strong connection to that elementary school experience. In that school, my sisters and I were the only black students. There were some Hispanics and some students who I would identify under the Asian umbrella, who were in that school as well. But in terms of black students, or African American, it was us, and I was the youngest. So as they moved on to junior high, it’s just becoming me, right? Then my parents sold their house on Dixie Street in Layton and we moved to East Layton. I transferred elementary schools and went to Sarah Jane Adams Elementary, which was brand new, and my principal there was Dr. Forrest Barker. Dr. Barker was another man, not tall, but he had bushy eyebrows and he was absolutely the sweetest, kindest man. I remember that there was one black elementary school teacher, Ms. Brown was her name. 9 Because I instantly wanted her to marry one of my uncles. She was lovely and her family was military, which is how she ended up in the area. She taught second grade and I was going into fourth grade, and I told my parents, “I’ll go back to second grade” because I had never even seen a black teacher in school. I was so sad that she couldn’t be my teacher, but I loved Mrs. Bernard who I had for fourth grade. But that was a really powerful moment because I don’t know if I had really thought about the fact that I didn’t see teachers who looked like me until I saw a teacher who looked like me and then I realized, “I don’t see any other teachers who look like me.” But I had amazing experiences there. I went to North Layton Junior High, I had a typical junior high experience. Except for I was the first seventh grade class where you could take pre-algebra and a foreign language. I took pre-algebra and I took Spanish. I remember the advisor telling my parents, “Well that’s a very heavy load.” Because I was in honors for everything else. “Really, you should only take one and really you might should not think about taking either one of them because it’s so much work. It’s so hard.” And my dad looked at her and said, “My daughter can do hard things. It’s fine.” He looked at me and said, “Is this what you want to do?” and I said, “Yes.” And he said, “Well, if this is what she wants to do, then that’s what she’s going to do.” I had that experience multiple times across my academic experience where people would say, “Well that’s really hard, do you really think you should put yourself in that circumstance? That’s a lot of stress.” And when I would need somebody to come to bat, my parents would say, “If that’s what she wants to do, that’s what she’s going to do.” 10 As I said, I graduated from Layton High, and I graduated after 10th grade. In 10th grade I was in honors Spanish, which was Spanish 4 because I had Spanish 7th, 8th, and 9th grade. I was in AP European History, Honors Biology, like there were some AP classes but there weren’t a lot. I was pretty much pushing the limits of what I could take because I was not identified with the predominant religion. I wasn’t taking a lot of electives that other students were taking. I had accumulated a lot of credits quickly. I had decided that I wanted to go to school at Harvard or Stanford because that’s the best. I want to be the best, that’s where I want to go. I was a debater, Delose Conner was my debate coach and was awesome and amazing. It gave me skillsets that I use to this day. He sent me on a debate trip to Stanford, to Palo Alto, where I participated in a debate competition with students from all over the country. I ended up being an octa-finalist in Lincoln Douglas debate which is pretty great. But I encountered people there who were like, “Hey, what year are you? What are you thinking about?” So I got kind of jazzed. Then I came home and got jazzed because I heard about a recruiter from Harvard was going to be at one of the Catholic Schools in Salt Lake. So my dad set up an appointment so I could go, and I had a great interview. There was good conversation there, and possibilities were starting to open up. My dad said, “What are you going to do this summer?” It was the summer after sophomore year. I said, “I don’t know.” And he said, “You’ve got to find something. You got to find something to do.” So I said, “Okay.” So I looked and looked and looked and I found some continuing ed classes at the University of Utah. I dug and dug 11 and found out, “Oh! I can register for these! This is really cool!” So I told my dad that’s what I wanted to do. He registered me, we went up to the U, I went to these orientations, and I’ll never forget this advisor saying to me, “Well, the classes that you’ve picked are all hard classes. None of these are fun.” I said, “But these are all of the classes that I would want to take.” Mind you these classes are Spanish, math, English, and ethics, because this is my mindset. This is what you take. You just keep taking it. She turned to my dad and she said, “Well you do know that even if she fails you still have to pay.” My dad said, “She won’t fail, I’m happy to pay if this is what she wants to do, this is what she’ll do.” So I did. At 16 years old I went to the University of Utah. My mom made me get braces three days before school started, which was mortifying. Like that was her control I think of making sure people knew that this was a minor. I had this amazing experience. I had this philosophy professor named Dr. Bill Wisner who was outstanding. At that time the T.V. show Twin Peaks was huge. It was very metaphysical and just all of the stuff going on. So we would talk about it in class, and it was just such an incredible experience and so outside of my high school experience which had been clubs and orgs, pep squad, and all of these things. It just felt like, “Oh, okay this is what I’m supposed to be doing.” But then, it was the end of the summer and I said to my mom and dad, “No, I’m done with high school. I want to stay in college. I don’t want to go back.” My mom and dad said, “You find a way to make it happen and we will pay. We will come up with the money. But you have to do it.” I said, “Okay.” 12 So I looked through policies and procedures and protocols until I could build this case to be a student. I’ll never forget that Dr. Wisner had—you always had to meet with your faculty. So I went to meet with him and he was like, “You really should be a philosophy major. What’s your major?” I said, “Well, I want to be a political scientist.” And he’s like, “Oh, you don’t want to do that. You should be a philosophy major. What year are you?” And I said, “I’ll be junior.” And he said, “How are you going to be a junior? How have I never had you in class?” And I said, “No, I’m going to be a junior in high school.” And he was like, “Wait a minute, wait a minute. What’s this?” So we kind of go through the story and he says, “Let’s figure this out.” So I apply, I have to go through a psychological evaluation because I’m so young, and this is early college and concurrent enrollment. Those things were not happening by and large. Weber actually did have a program because my sister Jami was, I think, part of the very first early college group. But the U did not have anything. They went through all of these things and then they came back and told my parents that I could do it, but they would have to sign a liability waiver because I was a minor and I couldn’t live on campus. So my parents said, “Okay. This is what she wants to do.” My mom was so sad because she said, “You’re cheating me out of my last two years.” During that first summer I lived at home. Then that fall my oldest sister had been at Utah State and she was going to be a super senior, and she needed a break so she moved to Salt Lake and got an apartment so that I could live in Salt Lake in an apartment and go to college. Prior to that, my dad drove me every day and dropped me off at my math building 13 in President’s Circle and he would drop me off and I would take three busses to get home to Layton, every day. It was wonderful. I was in a sorority, Zeta Tan Alpha. I did an internship at the U.S. Supreme Court. I studied abroad and lived in Cuernavaca, Mexico. I had amazing experiences, absolutely high impact practices, engaged across the board, had mentors who were faculty members who were committed to my success and making sure that I was aware of opportunities that I otherwise would not have been aware of. To this day, Dr. John Francis, political science mentor, Dr. Karen Dace, communications and ethnic studies mentor. They both continue to be mentors to me today. A year and a half ago I was in Indianapolis and got to have dinner with Dr. Dace and we had budgeted two hours for this dinner. Five hours later we shut down the restaurant, we are laughing and crying at the end because of a relationship that got fostered when I was an undergrad student who was navigating her way, and this amazing person just said, “I’d be happy to be this persons mentor.” But I had phenomenal experiences as an undergrad. KH: What other degrees do you have? AA: So I’m collector. I’ve got a few. But let me tell you about the degree that I didn’t finish. Which is I graduated from college at 19. So very young. I graduated at 19, went to law school. I was a political scientist because that’s how you got to law school in my mind. English would have worked, but I really thought political science. So I went to the University of Denver College of Law because they had a public interest law program that was amazing. And they gave me a chancellor’s scholarship which was awesome, because it’s an elite private law 14 school—so expensive. Within the first week, I knew it was not for me. But I also knew myself well enough to know that if I left after the first week, for the rest of my life I’m going to be like, “Was it just the first week? The first year they scare you to death. The second year they work you to death. The third year they bore you to death.” I’d heard these things, right? But it just was really not a good fit for me. Could it have been age related? Maybe. I was definitely the youngest person in my class. The average age was 27 when I was in law school. It was highly competitive, highly contentious. They had to hire extra security for the library because you couldn’t leave your bag on the table, somebody would steal it. Not because they wanted your stuff, they just didn’t want you to have your stuff. Or people would rip things out of books. Not because they were trying to deface the book. They just didn’t want you to have the same access to the material. Because in law school it’s not what you know. It’s what you know that nobody else knows. Right? So that was very bad. It was a two year lessons of endurance. I can endure a lot but two years, that’s sort of my limit. So I called my parents and said, “What would you say if I wanted to come home?” And I came home fairly regularly. My dad said, “Well then I would say, get a ticket and come home and I’ll buy the ticket.” And I said, “No dad, what if I wanted to move home and drop out of law school?” And he said, “Then I’ll be there Saturday with the truck and you’ll move home.” And that’s literally what happened. That was very jarring for me. I didn’t know what to do. But I really loved school, and I missed it. So I went back to the U and got a second 15 bachelor’s degree in women and gender studies. I worked for the Utah Governors’ Commission for Women and Families. I didn’t tell my family that I applied to graduate school until after I had been admitted because I applied late. They were coming home from a vacation—a cruise that my parents had taken. I said, “Hey Dad, what are you doing in two weeks?” And he said, “Nothing why?” I said, “Do you think you can get a few days off?” and he said “Sure, what’s up?” And I said, “Well, I’m moving to Minnesota to go to graduate school, and I just wondered if you’d drive with me so that I could have my car? I don’t want to drive alone.” And my mom was like, “What?! What’s going on?” And my dad was like, “Well, tell me more.” So needless to say, I ended up moving to Minnesota going to grad school in women and gender studies. While there, I did a two year program in one year. They changed the degree requirements to a two year residential requirement after I graduated with a perfect gpa. The only program I’ve ever completed with a perfect gpa. But my internship for my program was with Mankato Minnesota League of Women Voters. I loved that because I got to pull together their history and go through these archives. They literally had just boxes of material that nobody had touched ever. I’m pulling it together and creating timelines and you writing these pieces. They were wonderful, and it was awesome. I got to go to their monthly meetings, and it was just this wonderful experience. Then when I graduated they actually were so kind because they gave me a graduation gift of a check to thank me, because I had done all of this work that people had talked about doing that had never been done forever. But I had very amazing 16 experiences. It was a place where when my dad dropped me off…Well, when we first got to Mankato, which is Little House on the Prairie Mankato. So when you are thinking—you go to Mankato for supplies, this is where I’m moving to. My dad and I took the Laura Ingalls’ Highway to get there because he’s that kind of dad. Very sentimental and sweet to me. But when we get there we look around, and I’m from Utah. Not heavily populated with Black or African American people. We get to Mankato, Minnesota and my dad says, “If you want to go home, we will turn around and no one will say anything. But if you come here, then I need to you graduate.” And I said, “Okay dad, I’ll do it. I’m in it, I’m sticking.” And it was amazing. At that time Mankato State University was the training camp for the Minnesota Vikings, and there were all of these really cool programs and events and opportunities. I lived with a convent of nuns! I mean… I’m not Catholic! But I lived with these nuns who were awesome. So I had these incredible experiences, and wrapped that up and moved to New Jersey to pursue graduate studies at Rutgers in political science. While I was in New Jersey working on that degree, I was asked to be an assistant to fill in at the New Jersey Secretary of State’s office. Her administrative assistant had to be out for medical leave, and it was during a weird break in the school calendar. I had convinced my sister to move to New Jersey and she worked for the New Jersey Secretary of State. She’s like, “Yeah, my sister can do this while Debbie is out.” So I became the administrative assistant to the New Jersey Secretary of State, who was an amazing women named Lonna Hooks. I had worked in the governor’s office here 17 in Utah, so this was not completely unfamiliar, but it’s New Jersey so it’s very different. I started out just as a fill in and then when Debbie came back they said, “Well why don’t you just let us know when you can work and you can work.” That being said, I was a full-time doctoral student in political science at Rutgers, responsible for a full course load of work and I was a research assistant. So I’m doing all of the things. I then became a staff associate, I am getting ready to do some different projects with my academic work, so I’m going to let this go so I can be focused there. We get a new Secretary of State, DeForest B. Soaries Jr.—Buster. And Buster says, “Oh you can’t quit, I have a new job for you. The governor wants us to create new programs for youth. I need you to go write that this weekend and come back and give me the proposal.” I’m like, “Okay.” So on Friday I’m a staff associate, on Monday I come back with a proposal to create the New Jersey Center for Youth Policy and Programs. I became a director, and I was 23. I got this huge million dollar budget, and I did a $100,000 grants program for young people. I had this huge staff, I had this office looking out at the Delaware, I’m a full-time graduate student, and I’m doing research, and that can only be sustained for so long. I literally had a physical collapse where my system stopped producing adrenaline, and I developed a ton of medical issues. I went from being warp speed all of the time, to zero. Initially I thought I would take a few weeks off and get some rest and recover. A month turned into two months, turned into six months, turned into five years. During which time I was determined to be 18 disabled and put on disability. All of my doctors said, “We’re really sorry, we don’t what’s happening to your system, it just doesn’t make sense. But you’re not coming out of this. This is kind of going to be your life.” I had brain fog, I couldn’t drive a car, and I needed help going to the bathroom. I went from having this very incredible, high energy, high performing existence to needing assistance in just basic human functions. It was devastating. At that time, my sister was finishing up a master’s at the University of Pennsylvania and she was the Director of Operations for the New Jersey Secretary of State. She said, “It’s time for us to go home. You can finish a master’s, I’m finishing my master’s—we’re going to go home.” So our parents came out and moved us home, and that spring I graduated with a Master’s in Political Science. She graduated with her Master’s in Organizational Management from the University of Pennsylvania. I rode the couch for four and a half more years. During which time, it was very painful— I watched all of my friends lives continue. They got married, had babies, and were traveling and doing these exciting things, and I was struggling and everything was painful and slow going. I had great medical care here. I was just trying to reconcile that reality versus the one I had created for myself. In the fall of 2004, the flu was really aggressive so everybody was getting their flu shots. My doctor was like, “You’ve got to come in and get your flu shot.” I resisted and resisted all the way to November. I finally went and got my flu shot and had a bad reaction to it. We didn’t realize how bad, but I ended up having a heart attack and had some cardiac traumas leading up to the more significant 19 issue. When I finally went to the emergency room and got it treated, everybody was like, “She is seeking pain medication”, or something. “Oh my gosh, she’s having a heart attack. We’ve got to deal with this.” That was on November 10, 2004. On February 23, 2005, I started working at Weber State University in Services for Women Students. This was 14 years and 1 month and change ago. It was called, Services for Women Students. I started working there in a three-quarter time position. Everyone was against it. My parents were against, my sisters were against it, my doctors were against it. I had felt better than I had felt in years. And they were like, “Still, you don’t know how long this will last. This can change on a dime. Because we don’t know what triggered you having this sort of systemic failure the first time.” I said, “You know, I can’t worry about that. It’s all working now, I got to go with it.” So I started working there, and I ran a “As Safe As Possible” (ASAP) which was sexual assault, prevention, and domestic violence awareness. I did, sort of, outreach and support of women coming back to school or starting school for the first time. I did really cool programs in an office with people that I adored, who made my entry back into higher ed wonderful. I was there for about nine months, and then Davis campus had a position called Special Populations Counselor open up. I was still living in Layton at that time. I got that position and moved back to Layton. I bought a townhouse right by Davis Campus, and I was there in that role for two years. I got to work with student leaders, and that was my first hands-on work with student leaders in a broader capacity than women students, getting them enrolled, and making sure that they had access to things. 20 Then Nancy Collingwood reached out to me and she was like, “You do all of this diversity work.” Dr. Forrest Crawford, life-long mentor, life-long family friend had just been an advocate and really helped get me engaged in that diversity work, which is what I had come up out of in the first place. She said, “Well we have this diversity center, and we are going to need somebody to be the coordinator.” I was very excited. At the same time I had another area on campus reach out and say, “We’ve got a position that we think that you should apply for.” So there were these two very exciting opportunities, but diversity spoke to my heart. It spoke to who I am. So I went for that position and got it. Came back to Ogden, and became the coordinator for The Center of Diversity and Unity, that was housed in student involvement and leadership, which Nancy was the director of. She became not only a friend, she became a mentor who is still my mentor today. She is somebody that I can reach out to and call and say, “Nance, I got a question.” Or, “How do I navigate this?” Or, “I’m thinking this, but I don’t know.” She’s right there in it with me. I absolutely loved having a chance to work for her and with her, and now I get to work with her in different ways through alumni. She helped raise me up in student affairs in a very meaningful, intentional way. As she moved on to other things and other folks took on other roles, Dr. Crawford actually stepped back from being the Special Assistant to the President, and he recommended that I apply to be in that role. At that time I thought that’s an impossibility because the only people who have been in that role—mostly Forrest for 20 years—but the other folks who had been in had been 21 faculty. It was a split position, so I didn’t think that there was a chance for me to get that. But, he said to apply, he’s my mentor, he’s going to steer to an opportunity not to an obstacle that I can’t get through. Even if I don’t get it, then it’s a good experience and sort of seeing what people want and starting to think about “I never did get to finish my Ph.D., maybe this is something that I need to be doing.” So I applied and President Wight, Chuck Wight, was the new president and he did select me to be in that role, which split my position. We talk about split positions, but I’m not sure any position is ever really split. They’re really just two full time positions where you do them both because you love them both too much. So I was over the Center for Diversity and Unity, which had a diversity board, in addition to being the advisor to the president on issues of diversity and inclusion, and serving on the President’s Counsel. During that sort of window of time we were so fortunate in that we had the support of leadership to create the LGBT Resource Center, which to that point had not existed. So we worked together. Dr. Michael Vaughn was the Provost, he was an incredible champion and advocate. Also a good mentor and advocate for me. He’s the person who really did get me to go back and I’m finishing the Ph.D. program right now, and it’s because of him. His belief in me that I could do this work, and that at the same time because it would benefit everyone at the end, it has just been outstanding. But I got to work closely with our president at the time, Chuck Wight. The position was a two year appointment, at which the president would evaluate, “Do 22 I extend this? Do we need to open a search? Something that we need to change?” I met with him and I said, “This position needs to be a Chief Diversity Officer. It needs to be full-time, even if I’m not in it.” And he said that’s when he knew I was really serious, because I said that the position was more important than my personal priority. We put things together, I had to interview for it, there was a selection process. I did get selected, which I was really grateful for because I’m like, “I might not have a job. This might not work out very well.” But it did. So I was promoted to Chief Diversity Officer, and then I started my Ph.D. program. In that window of my life, there was just a lot going on. But I became full-time in the role. I moved from having a little cubby in the IT department on the third floor of Miller Administration, to having this great space next to Dr. Norm Tarbox, who is our Vice President of Administration. He was our interim president after Chuck Wight left. There just was a lot going on, but I started my Ph.D. program which is in Education, Culture, and Society. I have successfully passed exams, a personal victory. I am finishing my very last class as we speak, during which I’m doing a pilot of my dissertation work. So hopefully it will show me that yes, this question has merits and I should keep going because there’s legs. So doing that, but at the same time, I was promoted to be the Assistant Vice President for Diversity, in addition to being the Chief Diversity Officer. Through that I’ve been able to do amazing programs, and work with the institution as well as with the community. Two of the things that are sort of 23 personal highlights for me: one, is that I was able to work with Ogden City and Bill Cook who was the executive director of the Ogden City Council. We were able to work with our community partners and just individuals who live, work, and play in the community to create Ogden’s Diversity Charter and to create Ogden’s Diversity Commission—which is now in year two. It is very exciting, but that was a project that took a long time and a lot of work because we wanted to be intentional and as inclusive as possible. So I think it was worth the time it took to get us to where we are because we had buy in across the board, because we wouldn’t move forward unless we had consensus. I loved that. The other project that is near and dear to my heart is one called Town Hall Conversations about Race. It sort of came to me as a direct challenge following about two and a half years ago, we had a summer of law enforcement and people of color, just significant clashes were questions of civil rights and civil liberty were being raised on a daily basis. Where questions of equity and equality in law enforcement and criminal justice were being raised daily. We had a series of deaths within a very limited time frame of African American males at the hands of law enforcement officers. Alicia Washington, who is a Weber State alum, was posting on Facebook about this, and that something needed to happen and we needed to have a conversation. She had reached out to Kaffe Merc off of Harrison and had said that, “Could we get some space so that people could meet and talk about this?” and then she listed a group of people calling us out saying, “You do this work, you need to show up and be at this meeting and engage the discussion.” I was 24 like, “Woah. I have been called out.” It just so happened that the night of the meeting, I did not have class. So I went to Kaffe Merc which was packed to the gills, and Alicia was amazing. She had called us and since she had gotten her community partners and friends and then their connections and friends together to talk about what were people thinking, and how people feeling, and what do we do with that. How do we make sure that this doesn’t happen in Ogden? I ended up helping to facilitate some of that discussion along with Reverend Monica Hall. At the end of the conversation, people were like, “This is really good. What’s next?” And as the Chief of Diversity Officer of the University, I said, “Weber State would be pleased to host a Town Hall Conversation on Race. We will figure out a date and a time, we will get a space, and make it accessible.” The Town Hall Conversations on Race came out of that. We continue to have them. We are working right now to try and nail down an April date, which is tricky because it’s graduation and the end of the semester. But there is just a lot going on in our world and we need to continue these discussions. At that first meeting we had over 200 community members and partners show up. We had a panel of the President, Chuck Wight was on the panel, our Chief of Police was on the panel, a police sergeant for Ogden City was on the panel, we had individuals from the mayor’s office. We had these open conversations which we then just have continued to have on different topics, with different foci. It’s just been amazing. I’m really proud of those two programs, which are kind of outside of the institution. But if we look inside, our institution responses have been really fantastic to me because we have worked really hard 25 to integrate diversity and inclusion across and throughout the institution. So when something happens, like racist posters or flyers showing up on campus, the ability to coordinate a response and to address that pretty quickly is outstanding because I see what happens at other institutions. But add to that, the willingness of our administrative to support me when I say, “We need to have follow-up discussions with students. We need to have follow-up discussions with faculty, with staff. We need to figure out where people are at and make sure that, one, we are not violating free speech, but two, that we are protecting people from hate speech.” Doing that work here in a place where people are committed to inclusion and diversity, it just sings to my soul and it makes me think, “My grandpa would be very proud.” At least, I hope he would. It’s a very long answer to your question. But you said you liked long answers. KH: I do, I love long answers. So as you’ve been going through your education and your career, what resistance and battles have you faced? AA: A lot of the resistance or battles that I’ve faced, in terms of my academic experience, is people simply just telling, “Oh, this isn’t for you. Or you can’t do this, or are you sure?” I’ve even had one individual tell me, “I will stop you from moving as fast as you are because you should not be able to do this this way.” KH: That’s crazy. AA: It is crazy. When I was younger, I was much more headstrong and, “I will prove you wrong.” But in the biggest, showiest way possible. Now, that’s not sort of my mode of operation. I’ll make sure that you understand that you were wrong. 26 But I will always work hard to do the right thing because it is always the right time to do the right thing. That doesn’t mean that I need to try and be more aggressive about doing it because of something that you’ve said or done. It’s just the right thing to do. So my attack has changed. After my heart attack, I went from being high strung, high stress, Type A, to being much more laid back and relaxed. Which is how I end up with an office that’s this messy. Because old Adrienne—pre-heart attack Adrienne—I know where all of the things are. I know how to put my hands on my things. But old Adrienne would have had every file in a drawer with a label, organized in a particular format that anyone could have come in and figured out and located what they needed. After a heart attack, there’s some things that need less of my time. But there are people pushing against my goals, especially educational goals or aspirations. That happened more frequently than I care to admit. Sadly, more often than I would hope to have to say anything about. I graduated with my master’s in political science from Rutgers in 2001. I did a conflict, resolution, and mediation program in 2006 with the University of Utah. Then I didn’t start a Ph.D. program until 2015 at the University of Utah. Outside of my Ph.D. program at the U and my conflict resolution program at the U, I would say pretty consistently throughout any of my programs of study people told me, “No, you can’t do this, you can’t do this this way. The questions you are asking aren’t important questions.” I disagree. I think understanding and knowing whether or not gender makes a difference in campaign finance and contribution, I think that’s a critical question. That was my master’s thesis, 27 looking at the 1996 elections and whether or not women could raise money comparable to men. What my research bore out was when women run not only do they raise more money than their male counterparts, they also win more often. That was not information that was in my hands or that I was aware of. That’s powerful information because a lot of times women are conditioned to believe, “It will be harder for you”, and, “There may be things that are harder for you.” But money isn’t necessarily going to be one of them, right? Having these experiences in my life where people questioned me and my ability, or sort of erased aspects of my identity, that’s painful. But I have to decide whether I’m going to own that or let them own their own stuff. I’m trying really hard to let people own their own stuff. I don’t have the bandwidth to own it for them. I’ve got a lot on my plate, I have a lot to do. KH: What drew you to Weber State? AA: So interestingly enough, when I first started at Weber I thought, “I’ll be here for three years.” You know, Weber is kind of home. I’ve always known Weber. One of my sisters was a Weber State student. I have an aunt who is an alum from Weber, my dad attended Weber, it was familiar to me. It felt like this was a place I can go back to higher ed, because I really missed higher ed. I can start that here at Weber. Then I’ll figure out what’s next. I didn’t realize that when I came to Weber, that Weber would unfold in ways that helped me figure out myself, and that would allow me to be my best self so very often and in different ways and in establishing relationships with people who I could not have conceived of having relationships with. And yet would be transformative, not only maybe for the work 28 that we were doing for whatever project, but just how it transformed me as an individual. 14 years later, it’s very hard for me to imagine being anywhere that’s not Weber State University. The commitment to student success and learning is unparalleled. I’ve never been anywhere in all of the institutions I’ve either attended, or visited, or worked at, I’ve never been at an institution that is as committed to student learning and success as this institution is. That’s why it’s easy for me to go out and ask strangers, “Do you have a degree? Are you in school? Where did you go? What are you thinking about?” That’s exactly what I did with Lori, let’s share a table. You think I’m kidding, but at every checkout line I have no fear of touting this university because its excellence is obvious is to me. So when I’m checking out at my neighborhood store, “Are you a student? Do you want to go to school? Have you thought about it? Let me give you my card.” Because I know that this is a place where whatever in that little kernel that is inside of you that says, “Well maybe there’s this thing that I can do,” We can turn that into whatever you want that to be. So there is no reason for me to leave here. I’ve been married now for almost seven years. My husband moved here and we have a seven month old baby who is absolutely the light of our life. He’s already a wildcat. He may not be able to comprehend what this means, but he’s a wildcat. I can’t imagine being anywhere else. KH: What was Weber State like when you started? AA: This is really interesting. When I started Weber State, it was almost ten thousand students less than what it is right now. It was an older institution, 29 meaning the buildings were older, resources were there but not a lot of extra resources. Still a commuter environment, but just a little bit slower. The Weber that is today, this is a Weber that has pride of place that is happy to say, “We are Weber State. We are Wildcats. We are faculty who are winning awards for our research and our teaching excellence, and students who are performing at incredible levels and being recognized for their undergraduate research and getting into all of these great graduate programs. We have a nursing program that is renowned across this country and is held up as a model and an example.” We have hospital systems in our area that tell us that their nurses of choice are Weber State alums because they know what they are getting. They know the rigorous training that they have had will mean greater patient success. That is the difference. When you walk around this campus, you are walking around a place that says, “You are possible, there is not anything impossible at this institution.” I am grateful to sit at tables throughout the day in meetings with people who are committed to figuring out how do we serve all of our students. How do we make sure that we are not losing people, because no matter how hard we try that happens. But what are different ways that we can look at this? What are we missing? How do we do this better? How do we have a better student experience where learning is increased? Where faculty experiences are optimized? That is happening all day, every day at this institution. It’s not that it wasn’t happening before, I think that the energy with which it’s happening is radically different. 30 When you walk on this campus and see the buildings on this campus, whether they are brand new from scratch, or they are like Lindquist Hall over here which went down to the bare bones. I did not know we could do that. That we could take it down to the framework and transform something so fully that if you hadn’t been looking at your window every day, you would never know what it had been before. That’s what we do every day here with students and faculty and staff. Every day. Yeah, this place is absolutely outstanding. I’m going to be honest when I tell you that the majority of that goes to Dr. Norm Tarbox. He’s the Vice President of Administration, and his commitment to place and what that means for this institution and what that means for students, for folks in our community, it’s so huge. When you come on this campus, when we want you to feel welcome and like, “This is your place.” But we want our learning spaces to be high tech, high touch, engaging—places that you want to be. Not, “Ugh… I have to go to class in this room in this building.” We want you to want to be in this space. To utilize the services and resources. When you go to the library, we want you to go into that building and be like, “Oh my gosh, look at how much opportunity there is for me. I can do a gallery stroll.” See, look right here, what do I have? Signpost exhibit, right? I went to it, thank you very much. I looked around. But, spaces where I want to congregate with other students. I want to ask difficult questions. I want to wrestle and disagree and find out why you believe what you believe and maybe reconsider why I believe what I believe. This is that place. 31 KH: You mentioned starting or working with ASAP and the Town Hall. What other programs have you started or helped run throughout your time here at Weber? AA: Oh my gosh, the Annual Diversity Conference. We just had our 20th Annual Diversity Conference. I was on maternity leave but I helped plan it. It was amazing because we were able to bring back the folks who started it. Now, this was last fall, so it was 2018. In 1998, Weber State University was talking about diversity and inclusion, “Are we doing the right things? What could we be doing better? What should we be doing differently?” In 1998. Weber State was the first institution to have special population senators. So while each of the colleges has a senator, we also have veterans, non-trad, trad, disability center, and international… we have all of these senators that represent the variety of identities. I got to help work with that. It was already created, but I got to help enhance that, and work with different areas to make sure that students were supported and engaged. The Diversity Conference has a special place in my heart because that was the first thing that Dr. Crawford invited me to work on with him. It’s an institutional event. It has student components, it has faculty and staff components. We invite the community, and we bring in national keynote speakers. We open it at Davis Campus because we have many campuses, but we are one university. But we open it at Davis to make sure that Davis is a part of that conversation and engaged. We have the following day a series of workshops, some of which are student driven workshops. Then we have a keynote speaker and a luncheon that people can engage in conversation about 32 what they thought about the conference, what did they learn, what did they disagree with. This is the marketplace of ideas, everybody is not going to agree and that’s okay. We need that push and pull. That inspires learning. I think about those programs, I think about the academy of leadership and how much it has changed from when I started in Student Involvement and Leaderships, and what it is today. When I think about the diversity requirement, and how we are trying to figure out signature assignments and how do we measure diversity and inclusion in course pedagogy and practice. One of the projects I’m working on right now with Dr. Eric Amsel, Associate Provost, is inclusive excellence in the classroom. In particular, working with faculty to give them tools and resources to be more effective and meet the needs of all of our students. It feels like every day there is something new. Creating the LGBT Resource Center and getting to work with students, work with faculty, and staff. To pull that together and actually create the framework, create the mission, the vision, and goals and then get to hire the person who would lead it—Jayson Stokes. Jayson had been one of my student leaders. I had written a graduate admissions letter for him for his master’s degree and have him go off and then come back to this place and institute what he had learned. He was uniquely positioned because he had been a student here. Those things are amazing! Creating the Diversity Task Force in Student Affairs. At that time, Toni Weight was the interim VP of Student Affairs. She tasked me with creating the first diversity task force in student affairs. Which is long running, continues to 33 operate, and now it’s a part of my larger Diversity Steering Committee. It’s part of the standing committees. So across the institution we have diversity committees in all of the colleges. Then in program areas, we have diversity task forces or committees. Then the leadership of all of those committees are the steering committee. So they bring back all of the, “These are the issues that we are facing. These are the unique needs that we have here.” Well we have those conversations at this level. Well guess what? Maybe I’m in continuing education and I’m talking about some issues that we are facing or obstacles that we are encountering. But maybe you’re over the College of Health Professions, “Oh we dealt with something similar, this is what we did. Here’s the best practice that we followed. Here’s a resource that we utilized.” We are not operating in our silos trying to figure it out alone, we’re operating together as an institution to figure out, how do we strengthen all of us? How do we share that information? How do we make sure that we are supporting people in ways that’s going to meaningful and transformative across time and not just in the moment? Those are some of the things that I love. I get to continue with the Native Symposium. I get to participate on boards and commissions to represent the University and help improve diversity, equity, and inclusive practices. I get to work with awesome programs here on our campus, whether that’s Teaching and Learning Forum, or access and diversity in student affairs, or undergraduate research. Just all of these very different cool places where we get to engage in diversity and inclusion discussion. My calendar usually looks like a train wreck. I’ll give this example, the Dean of Engineering 34 Applied Science and Technology is Dr. David Ferro, and he’s wonderful. His college has a really terrific diversity task force. The associate dean, Allyson Saunders, chairs that committee and she’s outstanding, and her team is really committed. He had reached out to me to invite me to meet with a guest they had coming to campus. My calendar, I already two meetings double stacked in my day. So I declined, and he sent me an email back saying, “I thought you wanted to meet with this person.” And I’m like, “It’s not that I don’t want to meet them.” At this point, I can’t clone myself. But then something happened in my day, and one of the meetings ended fast, the other meeting got pushed back. So I had this 25 minute window. Even though I had declined it, I leave declines on my calendar, so in case there’s a window, I can go. I high tail it up to engineering technology, which is no feat. This is not a high tailing it body. I have the room number that it’s supposed to be in. I walk in, and the dean is there and he looks at me and he says, “I thought you couldn’t make it.” And I’m like, “I’ve got 25 minutes.” And he’s like, “Okay, they changed the room, this a different meeting.” So he takes me outside and he’s like, “Really I thought you couldn’t make it.” I’m like, “I really can’t, but I’ve got 25 minutes where I can make it work.” And he just looked at me, and I said, “Look, I’m committed. I’m just stretched out. If I can do it, I’ll do it.” I said, “I know the work that you’re doing in this college, and I’m committed to supporting you. That’s why I’m here.” And he just looked at me and he said, “Thank you.” That’s a testament to my commitment. If I can make it happen, I’ll make it happen. If I can’t, I’ll try and give you all the resources I’ve got to make it a 35 success on your end. Because it’s not about me, it’s about student success. Everything we should be doing at this institution should be about student success. I know that our students cannot graduate and be successful if they do not understand diversity, equity, and inclusion. We live in a global economy, in a world where before you might never talk to somebody in Zimbabwe or Zanzibar or Austria. But now, you just click on your computer or your phone and facetime and skype. We are much closer to each other. We have greater access more than ever before, and that means that we have to have a greater level of understanding and respect for each other. It’s hard to respect what you don’t know. It’s hard not to fear if you don’t have information. We just tend to be afraid of what we don’t know. So the more information we have, the more access we have, the more capacity to ask questions and to get comfortable with being uncomfortable, the better off we are—In just a holistic individual sort of frame, in an employment sort of frame, in a global economy sort of frame, and as a part of humanity. KH: Switching from being the Assistant to the President for Diversity to becoming the Chief Diversity Officer, how did your position change? What type of things were added to your plate? AA: So, in many ways, it was just an expansion. I was able to let the diversity and unity pieces go back to Student Involvement and Access and Diversity. Then I was able to really affirm and connect with our external community in ways that we hadn’t been able to do before. So we had many conversations and partnerships with Student Affairs to improve the understanding of what the 36 university does. In particular, for students of color, to demographic groups in our community, first generation, some religious minorities. But often times, individuals with intersecting identities, LGBTQ+, community partners—how do we serve our students? How do we reflect these students in our curriculum, in our leadership, in our services, and in our outreach efforts? Those all require relationship building. If there isn’t trust, it takes a long time. I am a person who is willing to wait. That is definitely post heart attack. Before I was not patient. I have a lot more patience. This work fundamentally shifted from having conversations here and there about, “Well this isn’t something that needs to change.” To, “Okay, so this needs to change, let’s create a plan, let’s create a timeline. What’s our accountability? How are we doing this? Is this in line with our institutional mission and vision? Does this fit within the institutional strategic plan?” It changed the capacity of what could get done versus let’s fit lots of small needs all over to the place, to having larger more sustained needs being addressed in that. Does that make sense? KH: You mentioned that the LGBTQ+ Resource Center was started under your tenure. What was the process to starting that resource center? AA: The interesting thing to give you some context is, the other institutions in this state that had a resource center, just created them. But one of the things that we knew at Weber State was if you just create it, it can just go away. So for Chuck and for Mike, it was really important that we follow protocol and procedure so that if we had it, we had it. It wasn’t going away. To that end, we, meaning they shared their input and I put together documents about what this plan would be of 37 why we need a resource center, what the articulated need is, who we would serve, what the goals, etc. would be. There’s actually a template that you fill out to create a center. Then that goes to the President’s Council to review and the President’s Council can ask for clarifications and make changes, send it back to you, or it can then go to the trustees. At that time, it would go to the trustees who would then forward it to the regents. Now we don’t have to forward it to the regents. But at that time, we did. People were not doing that, they weren’t sending it to their regents. They weren’t sending it to the trustees. So we went through all of those steps, and our trustees came back with questions. We needed to be able to address those questions. But we also needed our trustees to understand who our students are. One thing was a happy accident, one thing was planned. The planned thing was we reached out to some of our students who had been very active in articulating a desire, a need, to have a resource center, and we invited them to come and present to the trustees and to share their experiences and stories. It’s much easier to dismiss something that you don’t know if there isn’t a person attached to it that you have a connection with, right? So these students were amazing and they really kind of covered a broad range. We had three students who presented a broad range of identities in the LGBTQ spectrum, sharing what their experiences had been, including a student who had left the institution because he did not have the support he needed here. Who then came back because we had started doing some programing and some safe zone training. Eric Ashby brought the safe zone program to our campus 38 and was working with different offices, and faculty, and staff to provide some educational awareness—some language awareness around sexual minorities and sexual orientation identity expression. Because it’s lots of big categories that need unpacking, and if you’re not aware that’s daunting and stressful and “Please don’t make me bend my brain that way.” Right? Except if we can sit down and have some discussion, and some engagement, and I can read some materials and I can start to think about things and ask questions—it’s that whole learning process thing that we do at Weber that changes everything. So we were giving information, and we gave these students who spoke to their experiences, and then we had a student who just sort of took things into their own hands and they created a petition. They sat in the Union Building and they just ran off these sheets that said “I support” or “I do not support an LGBT resource center.” And then, “Here’s why.” We had probably close to 200 of these that were filled out. The bulk of them were filled out by students who did not identify as LGTBQ+, 98% of whom said, “This is not a psychological issue. This is an academic success issue.” If students don’t feel welcome or like they belong or have the support on campus, how can we expect them to be successful, contributing members to society? We have resources for other oppressed groups and we need to make sure that people are okay to get their education. That was incredibly meaningful to trustees because we had members of the population who self-identified. That was one of the trickier aspects is, when we think about ethnic or racial identity, we collect that data on many of our forms. 39 So we have an idea of what those numbers look like, because everybody doesn’t mark it. So there’s an unknown quantity or an “N” out there. But we don’t ask about sexual identity, expression, or orientation. That’s a harder one because we don’t know out of 28,000 students, what’s that number look like. Well, we don’t know, we don’t collect that number. So we knew that the students who did identify on the LGBTQ+ spectrum were very much wanting a resource center. They were very much wanting a coordinator who could help do programming, and support student clubs, and help with faculty engagement. That’s one of the things that we did was three LGBTQ and the curriculum retreats that were awesome and we gave away some grant money for faculty members to do research, create content, or to find the right content for their programs. Which was awesome. We brought in great speakers and it was a really great experience. But for the trustees to hear from the larger student population that they wanted to support their LGBTQ+ peers, I think that’s what helped move the needle. So then we had unanimous support at the trustee level. Which then went to regents and that support. So then we got our center and we were fortunate because we had—I have to think. We have a particular type of endowment that was covering some initial resources, but then we were able to leverage development office individuals to help us cultivate over $300,000 in endowment resources for the resource center. That’s speaking volumes. It’s not easy. I think an endowment right now has to be $65,000 or maybe it’s $50,000. It used to be $30,000, so I know it’s at least $50,000 but maybe $65,000. But to exceed that by so much 40 and to create the Marquadt Peace and Possibility Speaker Series, to have a library resource piece—to have all of these really cool programs and resources, have some dedicated financial dollars in addition to student fees is outstanding and it speaks to the institution about the commitment not only of the students here, but of the larger community and in part, alumni who are like, “Oh no, if we have an opportunity to support that resource, we are going to.” Because imagine how different my experience would have been if I had that resource when I was a student. That just was a game changer. But to have the folks who operated behind the scenes and said, “Look, this is a good way to move forward. Here’s how we build buy-in. How we develop understanding and support.” Because at the same time that we were creating the LGBT Resource Center we were experiencing and continue unfortunately to experience extremely high suicide rates of our LGBTQ+ community members. In particular, young people, college aged students. Unprecedented amount of homelessness of our LGBTQ+ youth in this community in particular. In fact, this is the first community to have a homeless youth shelter that focused on LGBT youth because of the number of homeless youth was so high in the LGBTQ+ community. This is the community that started with Ogden Outreach, which has gone through different iterations in terms of its growth and the support resources. It offers young people in our community from 14-27, in terms of identity, support, counseling resources, connections and just getting a sense of, “It’s okay to be whoever you are.” Add to that, the support resources for families, where individuals feel that they don’t 41 have knowledge or perhaps there’s a religious identity or ideology that runs counter to LGBTQ identified individuals. How do you work through that? How do you as a family, if you have a child that identifies as LGBTQ, how do you support that child at the same time? It may not be in alignment with your religious values or beliefs. We have all of these things happening at the same time we are constructing the center. It’s just been successful. Next year will be the five-year anniversary. KH: Wow, it’s been five years? AA: I know. See you’re saying that, and I’m like, “That was only five years ago that we were doing that? That feels like two weeks.” But that’s when I say that a lot of these things take a long time. They take a long time and then once they happen it’s like, “Haven’t we always had that?” But we haven’t. Which is why it’s important to honor the history and to circle back, “What’s changed between then and now? How are the resources used? How is the center used? What do students look for?” Because students are changing constantly and every time we think we have a handle on what students want or what they need or what they expect, those students graduate and it’s new students who want something else and are looking for something else. It’s a little bit bananas, but it’s also the beauty of higher education and living in a culture that’s always transforming. KH: So kind of changing tracks a little bit, what committees and organizations either on campus or otherwise have you been a member of or are a member of? 42 AA: Oh that’s really funny. I’ll have to see if I actually have this document. I had created something, more for myself than anyone else, to try and understand how many committees am I on? Let’s see… Let’s see…Let me look in one other place. Okay, I can’t immediately find it, but what I can tell you is this—outside of the University I’m on the McKay-Dee and Layton Hospital Board of Trustees. I am on the Executive Committee of Women and Business for Ogden Weber Chamber. I am the Equity Officer for Complete College America Utah Chapter. I am on the Utah Governor’s MLK Human Rights Commission. I’m on Ogden’s Diversity Commission. I’m a member of The League of Women Voters. I’m a member of the NAACP. I am a supporter of Imaged in Northern Utah. Those are the ones that immediately pop into my mind. But then let’s think about what committees am I on. I’m on President’s Council, I’m on the Student Success Steering Committee—the SSSC. I’m on the Student Recruitment and Retention Committee. I’m on the Faculty/Staff Hiring Committee. I’m on the Inclusive Excellence Committee. I’m on the State’s Chief Diversity Officer’s Committee. I’m on the Educational Talent Hunt Committee. I’m on the Transitions Committee. I’m a faculty fellow with the Center of Community Engaged Learning. I participate with the Women’s Leadership Project on campus. I’m on the Recruitment and Enrollment subcommittee. I’m on the First Year Experience subcommittee. I’m on the Library Diversity Strategic Planning Committee. The BSU Celebration Anniversary Committee. All of the events that are major events—so The Diversity Conference, Native Symposium, Allen Holmes Diversity Symposium, Women’s History Month, 43 Holocaust Remembrance, I’m either on those committees or chair those committees. Those are just the ones that are in the last two weeks. KH: Oh my goodness. AA: I mean, it’s tricky right? If I look at my top ten highlights of 2017-2018. I completed more than 10 high profile keynotes, presentations, and workshops or participated on panels for signature programming, representing Adobe, Ogden Weber Chamber, Davis Chamber, Ogden City Dual Mission Conference, Juneteenth. In addition to serving as a discussion facilitator at numerous state and community wide events. I also did a ton of trainings. I lead the campus and media response to hate flyers posted on campus through workshops, faculty discussions, staff Q & A sessions, and student Affairs workshops. In addition to providing the media response from the University on a variety of local network news channels. Which I didn’t even think about. I write a monthly column for the Ogden Standard about Diversity and Inclusion. I was a discussant on NPR’s, “To the Point”, regarding the differences between the war on drugs and the opioid crisis. That was huge because that was NPR and it was a national NPR program. I regularly record public service announcements on KSOP for Black History Month, MLK Human Rights Day, and Juneteenth with Dick Jacobsen. Like every year for the past six years I’ve done those. I coordinated and hosted four signature events, including the 19th Annual Diversity Conference, The Native Symposium, Black History Keynote, Holocaust Remembrance. I interviewed Cornell West when he was here for MLK Black 44 History Month in between. That actually will be a publication that comes out in the fall. KH: So your job is pretty much 24/7? AA: Yes and on top of the Ph.D. program and on top of having 7 month old. Oh, I also co-advise Campus and Outdoor Recreation with the Dean of Students, Jeff Hurst, who is the Associate Vice President of Student Affairs. Campus and Outdoor Rec has around 100 professional and student employees. It has year round programming, it has high risk management, like I’m regularly—my first meeting yesterday morning was with current Dean of Education, Jack Rasmussen, future Dean of College of Ed, Kristin Hadley, and the VP of Student Affairs, Brett Perozzi, to talk about intentional collaborations and partnerships as we expand the OCUR of Graduate Program and outdoor research and resources and management. I sponsor speakers for continuing ed classes. So last year, I sponsored Dr. Nasser Kaadan who did a Fall Semester class on the Syrian Conflict. In 2018, as well as this semester, I sponsored the sciences of human variation with Dr. John Marshall and Maria Parilla de Kokal. John is in Zoology, and Maria is in Psychology. It’s an interdisciplinary course that engages students to consider the biology, physiology of identity, as well as the social construction of identity. Oh I’m on the Oportunidad Scholarship committee, the Women and Gender Scholarship Committees, the Women and Gender Studies Executive Board. I sponsored two performance arts events. One was “Shared Ground”, which was an awesome collaboration where it’s a happy accident where I can connect 45 people who don’t know that the other exist to make something really cool happen. So we had performance arts faculty and music faculty, looking to do a diversity piece, but not sure how or what. I said, “Well there’s this great faculty, his name is Dr. Jeff Richey, he’s in history. He teaches this really cool stuff on undocumented individuals, as well as the history of Hispanic folks and this country.” So we put them together and they did these focus groups where they interviewed undocumented students and then they created music and dance performance to their stories, which were then played and performed in not only here, but at Carnegie Hall! KH: Oh Wow. AA: Right? I host new faculty lunches for all new faculty across the institution last year, helping connect them to the resources of my office as well as connections that would be helpful to them as they become integrated to the campus and the community. I coordinated and sponsored the “You are Welcome here” campaign as part of the national campaign to recognize the value, diversity, and unity at Weber State. Those were the top ten. KH: Wow. So the list is like ten times longer. AA: Literally when I write these, I just go back through my calendar over the course of the year and I’m like, “Oh yeah that! I forgot I did that! That’s kind of…” Like this year, Associated Food Stores reached out to the University. Neal Berube is their CEO and they had an issue that had happened and he said, “We really need your help. Would you be willing to help us?” Of course I would be willing to help 46 you. First of all, you are a major employer of our students, supply chain management. Like there are all of these overlaps that we serve on the McKay- Dee board together, and it’s diversity and inclusion work and if the university can help build bridges? Shouldn’t we be helping to build those bridges? So there’s a lot of stuff, but as I go through the calendar, like it’s like, “Oh yeah!” I was actually feeling kind of bad because from mid—August to early November, I was on maternity leave. I’m like, “My top ten is not going to be very great this year.” And I just did an initial look and I’m like, “I’m not that bad. I’m okay. I got a little bit of time. I can get more in, but I’m okay.” KH: What topics have you written about? AA: Oh my goodness, what do I write about? It’s every month, it’s different. So I’ll write about everything from speakers we bring to campus, what happens when hate posters show up in your community, the one I wrote this month was about— I tell people all the time get comfortable being uncomfortable. I had to take that medicine myself. My husband is from Minnesota. Spent 20 years in Wyoming, but he’s got Minnesota roots and they show sometimes. When we got married he said he wanted to do this really cool thing when we had a house with a really good driveway. So five a half years ago we bought a house, it has a great driveway. As soon as we got this house, he was like, “I want to do like a chili cookout with a fire pit outside and just invite all of the neighbors in the winter, and we can hangout while it snows.” And I’m like, “No.” But he would not let go of this idea. Every year he would bring it up and there’d be a new addition. So, “We could do 47 s’mores. We could have the fire pits, kids could roast marshmallows and make s’mores. How cool would that be?” He’s like, “Everybody brags about their chili. We could do a chili potluck.” It just kept getting bigger in his mind. And I’m like, “No.” He brought it up again, we have this new baby and I’m looking at my husband and I’m like, “Why are you telling him no?” That does not make any sense. Who are you? This is uncomfortable to you, get over yourself. So he says, “If you make the invitation, I will do everything else.” Okay. I go online, who knew that people did this, that this is actually done. So I make this invitation and I go Pinterest, because that’s what I do. I find ideas, and people are doing all of these things, and I’m like Chili in the Chill could be what this is called. And he’s like, “I love it! Chili in the Chill!” So we get the invitations out, I mean he’s just peppering neighbors houses with these little postcards with, “Chili in the Chill.” Then he gets nervous, like the day before. “What if nobody comes?” I’m like, “It’ll be fine.” I’m like, “Please let somebody come.” And we had people show up with crockpots of chili, with homemade cornbread, with s’mores fixings, with kids, with family members. My husband strung lights in our driveway so these little twinkle lights, and he had fire pits out. We had lawn chairs, and it was cold, and people hung out for three hours outside in the driveway, and we had a really nice time. It was great because I work a lot, so I’m not often meeting my neighbors. Outside of having a bar-b-que when we first bought this house, I don’t see my neighbors very often. At one point, my husband ran into one of our neighbors and he was like, “We thought you guys moved because we don’t ever see you.” 48 There was a woman there, and she was like, “Oh, you always seem so busy I never want to stop you because you’re right under the mailbox, you’re hopping in car, and you’re driving away. Or you’re pulling in your driveway and into your garage.” She’s like, “You just seem very busy.” I’m like, “Oh. It’s not that you don’t like me. It’s that I haven’t given you a chance to get to know me. So, what? Have I been making you uncomfortable? Wait a minute, what’s happening here?” I was able to go inside a couple of times, because you know, I have a little baby and so people will forgive you for going inside for a little bit. But it was a total success, and it was about how we prejudge people and decide, “Oh they like me. Oh they don’t like me.” without giving them a chance to get to know us, and then we start judging them. “Well they must be this kind of person because they don’t ever talk to people.”, “Well I don’t give you a chance, wait a minute.” I write about literally everything. I wrote about bathroom stalls when we were really talking about gender-neutral bathrooms a few years ago. Do you remember that? That was one of my very first columns, and I had people who were just livid. Like, “How dare you write this column.” But then I’m like, “Um… at home, do you have gender specific bathrooms? Or do people just use the bathroom?” But why do we not think that? So I try to write things that will engage in discussion, and hopefully positive discussion. Occasionally, I will write things and people will interpret it completely outside of the intent that I have. So then I have to ask myself, “Okay, let me read that again. What are the lenses I would need to have on to read this and get that outcome?”, “Oh okay.” So how do I address that? How do I try and build a 49 relationship? Or work with somebody who has got those lenses on? And why didn’t I notice them before? So, I just write about everything, if you do a google of, “Ogden Standard and Adrienne Andrews” they’ll come up. KH: What other publications do you write for? AA: I used to write for the Wasatch Women Magazine, but it’s no longer in print. I wrote a dating column for a very long time. I was a prolific dater before I married my husband. But most of my writing tends to be academic at this point and it’s all in pursuit of my doctoral degree. Otherwise, I have two publications coming out in the Contemporary West. One is an interview with Cornell West and the other one is an interview and Richard Ray Perez. Both of those will come out soon. But hopefully after that, my next publication will be my dissertation. KH: That will be exciting. AA: That will be extremely exciting. KH: What recognition have you received for your accomplishments? AA: In 2017, I was selected as the Ogden Weber Chamber Athena Recipient, which is a really big deal. I didn’t know very much about the Athena award until after I was selected for it. It’s right there, which is one of the most beautiful awards I’ve ever seen. It helps that I have it. But, it’s just a very heavy award. Both literally and figuratively in that, it challenges me to be mindful of the Athena principles, and to make sure that I’m actually practicing those things in my day-to-day work. I was awarded in the Fall of 2018 the Community Servant Award by Omega Psi Phi fraternity. The Iota Iota chapter awarded that in recognition of my 50 contributions to the youth of our community. I’ve got lots of Student Affairs awards and Weber State Awards. Hill Air Force Base presented me awards of appreciation for work… I forgot I was the keynote for MLK Human Rights Month at Hill Air Force Base this year. So there are just a lot of things. The tech college has recognized me for a collaborative partnerships and appreciation. Let’s see, Community Action Program has recognized me as a Community Advocate. I won the Crystal Crest Friend of Student Award. I won the Women of Wit Award. I don’t know sometimes how funny I am. I received the Chamber Award for Women in Business. So those are just some of the recognitions. Which are all cool to get, that’s not what it’s about. I just want to see the work get done and people build relationships and connect with each other and have better experiences. That’s the reward for me, like when I see that happen. When I see something come together that’s been… when the Ogden Diversity Charter came together, I probably went home and cried for three hours. Because there were so many people who said it would never happen. To me that was the award, the award was that people showed up. Even up there, you’ll see their signatures— organizations and individuals who signed the charter with their support. To have those people show up and commit to being supportive was just outstanding. Because when we started, that was not happening. KH: How have you become a mentor to others in your field? AA: Hopefully, every time I see an opportunity if I think of you, I call you, I try and connect you. One of the things that I tell everyone, “I don’t know how I can help 51 you if I don’t know what you want.” If you tell me what your goals are, where your hopes lie, an experience you want to have—if I know that, then when it comes up I’m going to call you and I’m going to let you know. I’m going to nominate you for awards… I was thrilled, Weber State won the Davis Chamber Employer of the Year Award this year. I nominated us for it. I’m like, “We do not toot our own horn, we are doing awesome stuff. We need to be out there.” I work with a lot of people who are like, “No, no, no, we just need to do the work.” And I’m like, “Yeah, but people need to know we’re doing the work, and the only way that happens is when there are awards and we get recognition.” So I try really hard to nominate people, but you also know, I’ll mentor anyone. I don’t have to know you. I just have to see a sense of openness in your face or in your eyes and I’ll do anything I can. Again, I’ve had outstanding mentors and continue to have outstanding mentors in my life who have supported me and who have shown me how to be a better mentor. At Weber State we have a mentor program—Peer Mentor Program that’s operated by Olga Antonio. She is wonderful. She has her students so engaged that they actually have gone through the certification process to be peer mentors, recognized from the National Peer Mentoring Organization. They actually have course work and hours, and all of these things that they have to go through to be certified. She works with the students to get them through that. How phenomenal. I did not have somebody training me as a young person to be a mentor. I was getting molded by example. But a part of that is: I am an advocate, and I try very hard to advocate for all of the students I 52 encounter. Anyone I encounter who seems like I might have something to offer. I like to mentor, but I’m a very strong advocate. KH: What advice would you give to students and women starting in your field? AA: The advice I would give is read everything. Ask questions, show up. Showing up is half of the battle. I would say, remember that you get to fill your own cup too. You can’t fill somebody else’s if yours is empty. Self-care is critical, and I’m not good at it. I’m just not. I’m very fortunate in that I have a partner who will say, “Hey, your family gets some of your time too.” Or, “Hey, you need some personal time, I called up your girlfriend Amanda. You guys are going to go do something because you need break, not a breakdown.” Right? So taking care of yourself and recognizing that you don’t have to do it all. Talk to people. We find connections and collaborative opportunities when we talk to each other. If we don’t talk, those are missed opportunities. We miss collaborations. You’ve got to talk to people, we’ve got to build relationships. It is all about relationships. KH: What advice would you give to someone who wants to become involved in Diversity? AA: Do some self-work first. Know who you are, know what you believe, know why you believe it. Investigate, what are your biases? We all have them, all of us. What do we do when we see them rear their heads? Do we just ignore it? Or do we do some reflection? Do we try and figure out like, “Why am I having that response?”, “Where’s that coming from?” Do some self-work first, and then start reaching out. If you are interested in Diversity work, find people doing Diversity 53 work and say, “Tell me more about what you do? How do I get involved with what you do?” If you are a student, we have got unlimited options on this campus. We’ve got a Diversity Board, we’ve got Undergraduate Research opportunities, we’ve got the Center for Multicultural Excellence—which includes all students. The Diversity Center is for ALL students. Sometimes people are like, “No, it’s for… I’m not diverse.” We are all diverse in our own ways. In some groups we are very diverse, and in others we are not diverse at all. It’s a fluid component to living. We just use some categories of diversity to articulate what we mean, but it’s so much more than that. But ask questions, do some self-reflection, read books, go to events, be willing to be uncomfortable with connecting with people that you don’t know. I have to do that too, I show up in places where I don’t know people and that can be unnerving, right? But then you’re there, and there are other people there. So you may as well talk to each other. KH: What are some of your favorite memories at Weber State? AA: Oh my gosh. I used to be in Student Involvement and Leadership, and we used to do two and three day overnight retreats with student leaders. Like, 80 student leaders at the time, really big groups. Working with those students and seeing them connect with each other and themselves in ways that they never had before, that was really powerful. Being in faculty meetings or staff meetings and having people really be honest and vulnerable because they want to get it right— that fills my cup. 54 When we are willing to be invested and present and show up to do the work, and to recognize that we can’t do it alone and that it means that we do have to be a little bit vulnerable. When those things happen it’s like, “Woah.” Seeing our students succeed. Going to—I didn’t go to this one this week, but I’ve been to the Chick Hislop Student Athlete Academic Awards Banquet. If you ever have a chance to go to one, Holy cats! These athletes who are doing service, who have crazy great GPA’s, and who have these beautiful dreams that they are building a pathway to. It just like breaks your heart open, you are so excited. Whenever I get to go to the Multicultural Youth Conference, or Latino’s in Action Conference, or Senior Night for our Trio Students, and seeing them talk about their own experiences moving into higher ed and what that looks like. That just reminds me that this work is incredible. Going to an event in the community where partnerships were strained or non-existent, are suddenly fruitful and thriving and where there’s commitment. Opening the community education center on 26th and Monroe, have you been there yet? I gave opening remarks after the lieutenant governor and mayor. Seriously? What are trying to do to me? You may as well have just put a kid in front of me, and then told me to speak. Being in a room full of community members who were so overwhelmed with the university’s commitment to their access and learning to their engagement and higher education, that just makes your heart grow three times and be barely contained in your rib cage. That’s wonderful. Those are the things that just made me so happy. It makes me so proud to be a wildcat when I’m 55 someplace else and I see somebody else in a Weber State sweatshirt. I go up and I say, “I’m a wildcat. How did you get that sweatshirt? Are you alum?” and just being able to strike up that conversation and see the pride in their eyes over what Weber State is and has done for their lives. I mean, all of those things, if you’ve ever gone to WSU Salutes, have you done that? KH: I have. AA: Okay, Lorrie, get thee to Fall ’19 WSU Salutes, it will be in October. Because Homecoming is… it’s kind of crowded. KH: It’s in Austad Theatre normally. AA: it used to be in the Alumni Center, but now it’s just too big. But here’s the thing, you will get alums who graduated 50 years ago, and are just tickled to share their stories and experiences. You will get young alumni who are like, “This is the place, this is where my life started.” You will get community partners who— because of their commitment to learning, their commitment to providing employment or engagement opportunities—are being recognized, and you will look around a room of people who could be anywhere else they wanted to be on this planet, and they choose to be at Weber State celebrating during homecoming. It is phenomenal. It’s just the academy awards on steroids. Does that answer your question? KH: It does. How do you think women receiving the right to vote shaped or influenced history, your community, and you personally? 56 AA: So women getting the right to vote transformed this country, because even though there was still a very clear articulated gender divide, it gave women access to power they hadn’t had. It also helped men to recognize—and by men, I mean, white men who could vote— it helped them recognize that the pie is bigger and there is enough room for all of us to have a piece of it. At the same time, voting rights also helped outline a problem that we did not address. Which is, that women were divided. That when we were seeking the right to vote, there was a point at which time the group of women largely, white women, was willing to separate and say, “Well if we can get the vote for white women, we can worry about women of color later.” Right? And that divide and conquer strategy is something that we’ve seen throughout civil rights, the ERA, and other women’s movements. We have not resolved that yet. So it points that out. It’s a good place for us to recognize that breakdown. But then for the generations before me, it transformed civil rights because you had women like Fanny Lou Hamer who were willing to vote even if it mean being beaten and brutalized because they were voting. It helped shine a spotlight on the nation that where it might still not be great to go vote in some places. In the south, there was brutalization over voting rights, which really meant civil rights. Then as you come into the 70’s and I’m born, you come into the 80’s and 90’s and I’m a registered voter, my vote counts what I believe, and what I have to say with my vote has meaning. We have seen elections that turn on a vote. It also means personhood, individual personhood. One of those original arguments was, “Well women don’t need to vote because they’ll vote the 57 same way their fathers, husbands, or brother’s vote.” And sometimes that’s true, but guess what? That means that fathers, husbands, and brothers sometimes vote the way their wives, daughters, and sisters vote. Right? But it also means that I don’t have to vote the way that you do. In fact, that’s why it’s a private experience because what you know is that I voted. Unless I tell you, you don’t know who I voted for. That’s transformational. I know that my vote is important, I know that if I sleep through an election, then I really can’t complain about what’s happening. I know that if I show up to a vote, then I can continue to press for things that I support as well as against things that I oppose, and know that I have the right to do that because I have participated in the democratic process. We need to engage more people and recognizing the value of the vote, the importance of voter education, and then I don’t even know what our world would look like. But pretty freakin’ amazing is what I’m thinking. KH: Is there anything else you’d like to share? AA: I am a new mom—seven months, 12 days. I did not know that I was going to get to be a mom. I did not think that I would get to be a mom. I did not know how much it would change the way that I look at the world, because I am absolutely looking at the world thinking about my son. And thinking about what this world will not only be for him, but offer for him. What opportunities or obstacles will he have to engage in? What will this world be like? How do the choices I make for myself, how will he have to pay for them later? I’m reminded that native and tribal cultures think about things in terms of seven generations in decision 58 making. Because how will the decision that I make today impact seven generations from now? We in general as a culture in this country do not think about the long-term effects of our decision making. I think that that is a beautiful gift that we have access to, that we need to engage. I need to do better because I have a son, and one day he may have children of his own. The other thing that I absolutely know is critical, that without my parents there’s no way I could have done the things I’ve done. But in the last decade without my husband who is my partner, who stands beside me, who champions me, who encourages me, who reminds me of my best self when I’m struggling. Without him, I could not do any of the things that I do. I just couldn’t. He is absolutely amazing. My dad calls him the Adrienne Whisperer. But you’ve met my husband, and he’s just outstanding. I don’t even know what husband or father who’s been committed to his family in the way that he is committed to ours. Other than that, if there’s something that I can ever do for you or anyone else for that matter—because I have no problem talking to strangers or encouraging them—then let me know. If I don’t have the answer, I might know somebody who does. Then if I don’t, then maybe together we can find out. We just have to be willing to ask and you know, no means next. Probably that’s the other thing that I would say is, “No, means next.” When you hear, “No”, “Okay done with that here, but I’m going to try something different. I’m going to connect with somebody else.” KH: Okay. Great, well thank you so much of your time. 59 AA: You bet.