Oral History Program Matthew Godfrey Interviewed By Rebecca Ory Hernandez 21 October 2011 1 November 2011 i ii Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Matthew Godfrey Interviewed by Rebecca Ory Hernandez 21 October 2011 1 November 2011 Copyright © 2013 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Weber and Davis County Communities Oral History Collection includes interviews of citizens from several different walks of life. These interviews were conducted by Stewart Library personnel, Weber State University faculty and students, and other members of the community. The histories cover various topics and chronicle the personal everyday life experiences and other recollections regarding the history of the Weber and Davis County areas. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Godfrey, Matthew, an oral history by Rebecca Ory Hernandez, 21 October and 1 November 2011, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Matthew Godfrey ca. 1999 1 Abstract: Matthew Godfrey (June 30, 1970) was born in Ogden, UT. He spent his childhood years in North Ogden and attended Weber High School. Matthew attended Weber State University, where he got a master’s degree in accounting and was an All-American on the track team. Matthew sat down with Rebecca Ory Hernandez in the Mayor’s Office before the end of his third term. He shares stories of his life growing up and living in North Ogden, as well as his education and serving as Ogden’s Mayor. He reflects on his time running for Mayor and discusses some of the major economic and development projects he worked on in his several terms after elected to beautify Ogden City. His father was William V. Godfrey, mayor of Harrisville. Matthew is currently working as a consultant and continues to serve on various community boards. He is married to Monica. ROH: Today is November 21, 2011. Seated in Mayor Matthew Godfrey’s office are Rebecca Ory-Hernandez and Mayor Godfrey. We’re here to talk about your history. Let’s start with where and when you were born. MG: I was born here in Ogden at the old McKay Dee hospital that was across from Weber State. That was June 30, 1970. ROH: Did you have any brothers or sisters? MG: Growing up, there were five of us. I have an older sister, Malinda, then Jason and then me. After me were Deborah and Laura. I had another sister who died when she was eleven days old; her name was Rebecca. ROH: How much older are Jason and Malinda? 2 MG: The first four are all two years apart. Malinda was born in 1966, Jason in 1968, I was in 1970, and Deborah in 1972. Rebecca was born in 1974, and then she passed away. I think Laura was born in 1976. ROH: Did you grow up in Ogden? MG: I grew up in Harrisville. We lived right behind where the Wal-Mart is now. We grew up in the same house my mom grew up in. I never distinguished it much from Ogden. ROH: What are the names of your parents? MG: William Verl Godfrey and Carol Jeanne Godfrey. My mom went by Jeanne and my dad went by Bill. ROH: Tell me a little about your childhood growing up in Harrisville. MG: It was a wonderful place to grow up and I had a great childhood. We had land around our homes so we would go and play and ride bikes with friends. We did a lot of fun things together as boys—myself, my brother, and my cousin, after he moved in behind our house. It was a great time growing up. We got along really well. I enjoyed spending time with my family. It was kind of a family compound. Next door to us were my mom’s parents; behind us were our cousins, the Fields, which was my mom’s sister; behind them, later on, the Montgomery’s built, and they were the family of another of my mom’s sisters. ROH: Where did you go to school? MG: I went to Pioneer Elementary School, Walhquist Jr. High School and Weber High. Education was never stressed by my parents. Both of them went to a semester or two of college but didn’t graduate. They never pushed it or said it was 3 important that we be good at math or reading or other topics. We got good grades and we all liked school, but I don’t recall my mom saying I needed to go to college. I enjoyed school both academically and socially. I ran for some offices and had good experiences. ROH: What offices did you run for? MG: Eighth-grade president and then student body president at Walhquist Jr. High School. ROH: What other extra-curricular activities were you involved in? MG: I ran track. I really wanted to play basketball because basketball was a cool sport and track was not. I tried out for the basketball team. I was the last kid cut. I still remember that Lynn Wood and I had a one-on-one game at the end of practice to decide who was going to get on the team. He beat me by one basket. In hindsight, it was a good thing because if I’d made the team I would have pursued basketball and that’s certainly not where my skills were. I played football my eighth and ninth grade years, which is tough when you’re only a hundred pounds. I got my bell rung plenty, but I had a good time. My science teacher got a ferret and there were two of us that would go and take care of it. Those are the only extra-curricular things I did. ROH: What about high school? MG: I ran track and cross country. I was on seminary council my junior year and I was seminary president my senior year. It was against the rules to be a student body officer and be on the seminary council, so when I was asked to be on the 4 seminary council, I couldn’t run for office. I think it was a good thing. I did debate as well. High school was a fun time. ROH: What was a typical day like for you in high school? MG: We woke up around 6:30 and we always had breakfast as a family. We’d pray and read scriptures as a family, then rush off to catch the bus to school. In high school, my parents had a car for all the kids. They didn’t want us to have our own car. It was an ugly green GMC pickup truck that we were embarrassed to drive. We thought it was such an ugly truck. My junior year, much to my surprise, my dad bought a Fiat X-19. My dad bought it from my uncle who was glad to get rid of it. My junior and senior year I was able to drive this cool little sports car to school—when it worked, which it didn’t much of the time. School would start around 7:15 and end around 3:00. Then, I would go run track or cross country until 5 or 5:30. I was always famished when I got home, and we always had dinner as a family around 6 or 6:30. ROH: What did your parents do for a living? MG: My mom stayed at home with us. My dad was an insurance agent. He had a tiny little yellow shack of an office until I was in my senior year in high school, when he went to work for Heiner’s Insurance. My dad was the mayor of Harrisville and a councilman before that. I think he ran for mayor the first time while I was in high school and he lost by one vote. He ran again and won the second time around, which was just after I was married. He had a heart attack and was in the hospital the night he won the election. He came out of open heart surgery and found out that he’d won the election. 5 ROH: Was he influential in your decision to run for mayor? MG: He told me not to run. Almost twelve and a half years ago I went to talk to him out in the garage and said, “Dad, I’m thinking about running for mayor.” He said, “Why would you do that?” I gave him my reasons. He said, “I would advise you not to do it. Maybe I’m being over-protective.” He shared with me some experiences he had had of people being mean-spirited. He said, “Your friends and the people you go to church with are going to yell at you and say terrible things about you and I would rather you not have those kinds of experiences.” He said that if I did decide to run, he would be supportive. I didn’t have a political bug in me—we had to deliver fliers when he ran for office and I did not enjoy that at all. I didn’t have much interest in politics, even though I’d run for two offices in school—that was more for fun. After I decided to run for mayor, my dad was a great support. ROH: Back up a little bit and let’s talk about what happened after high school. MG: I got a track scholarship to Weber State. ROH: What was your major? MG: My undergraduate was finance and then I went on to get a master’s degree in accounting at Weber, which was never the plan. The plan was to go away for a Master’s degree in International Business. The NCAA kind of messed that up for me. At that time, you couldn’t transfer schools without losing a year of eligibility. When I finished my undergraduate, I wanted to get a Master’s but I couldn’t transfer. Weber had two graduate degrees, the Masters of Business and the Masters of Accounting. I figured it out with the counselor and I could get four 6 bachelor’s degrees or I could get a Master’s degree, otherwise I would lose a year of track eligibility. So, I ended up getting a Master’s in accounting even though I had no interest in accounting. I got them together and graduated with both degrees in 1995. I started in ’88 and had a two-year mission within that time. ROH: Where did you go on your mission? MG: I went to Caracas, Venezuela. It provided a lot of great experiences and learning opportunities. A mission is an amazing amalgamation of experiences. It is extraordinarily difficult physically even though I ran track all through school. In Venezuela, we would walk several miles and then knock on doors all day in the sun. It was hot and humid and you’re wet all day long. Continual rejection is something you have to learn to live with. Then you have to learn to live with another person. You don’t choose your companion; they’re assigned by the mission president. I think I had seventeen companions in twenty-four months. That’s unusual. That was good but also hard. I had quite a few companions who were having problems and the president sent them to me—sometimes he told me in advance, but usually he didn’t. After the difficult companion transferred the president would say, “Thanks, that’s the longest he’s ever stayed with anybody.” It was a valuable experience to learn to live with somebody you don’t know and who is often from another country. Usually you’re living with someone with whom you have nothing in common except religion. I really like to get out, work hard and do things. I had companions who wanted to do what was easy, fun and enjoyable. Learning how to resolve those kinds of issues was a good experience and I think great preparation as well. It 7 was neat to see people change their lives as they listened to the Gospel and decided they were going to get baptized. I just got a call last month from a lady I baptized who was here in Utah. It was neat to talk with her and hear what was going on in her life and what she was doing. Those relationships were meaningful and they continue to be very rewarding experiences. I wish I would have kept better track of the people I knew there. It seemed unmanageable at the time, but today with Facebook and email it would be a piece of cake. The postal service is terrible in Venezuela, so I knew most of my letters wouldn’t make it through anyway. ROH: What did you think about the contrast in geography? MG: It was very tropical and there was a desert in one area where I served. It’s so beautiful and so ugly at the same time. It was fascinating to see how poorly the country was run; they had so much by way of natural resources and amenities of the earth, but they did a poor job of managing it. It was sad to see the poverty. I had heard about poverty, but when you see the depth of the poverty and the pervasiveness of it, you feel overwhelmed by it. It’s not like you can help them out of it alone. That was hard. All I could do was share a message that could help their lives get better and hope that over time they could improve their situation. It was a beautiful landscape and I enjoyed the climate knowing I wouldn’t choose to live in that kind of humidity. It was fun knowing I was going to be there for two years and then come back to this area. ROH: Did you run on your days off? 8 MG: A handful of times, but my philosophy was that if I put all my effort into serving well on my mission then things would work out with track. ROH: Did you get back into track and school when you got back? Or was it very different when you came back? MG: I got right back to both school and track. I hadn’t run for two years, so it took time to get back in shape. I had more injuries after my mission, which could have been from the time off, but I was very poor and didn’t change my shoes as often as I should have, so a lot of it I caused myself, I’m sure. I’m fairly bullet-proof with injuries, but I had a few years where I was injured quite a bit. Weber didn’t put much money into their track program, even though it was probably the best athletic program they had. We won more championships and had more national recognition, I’m certain, than any other team on campus. It’s not exciting when the cross country team places fourth or seventh in the nation. The coach was great and became a very good friend. I learned a lot from him about track and about life. The same with my high school coach—Dick Connelly. He passed away a few years ago. High school is such an impressionable time in your life and I thought I was a really good kid—seminary president, didn’t go to parties and always did what I was supposed to be doing— but he pulled me aside several times and told me I needed to be doing better. It was shocking to me because I thought I was too far on the good side and needed to let my hair down a little. I was really grateful to him. He coached me well in running, but also in life. He was a wonderful man. ROH: Once you graduated from Weber, what did you do? 9 MG: I was married in the summer of my junior year of college, which was in 1993. Monica and I were introduced by someone on the track team. I had a freshman who had a locker next to me and from the time he came in he wanted to set me up with somebody that he knew. To be honest, I didn’t trust his judgment. He was really fun-loving and kind of goofy, and I didn’t know who Monica was but I was certain that she would not be someone I would be interested in. He kept asking and asking, and finally said, “Just meet her.” We set something up where we would just pass each other and meet. We did that and she was much better looking than I had expected. We went out on a date—an almost-blind date. It wasn’t wonderful. It was a wedding reception for a friend of mine. It was one of the most spectacular storms I’ve ever seen during my life here—in that six hour period of our date, it snowed probably two feet. We had a heck of a time getting from Ogden up to the valley and we ended up helping cars on the side of the road. It took us two hours to get to my friend’s house and it was eleven at night by the time we did. It was still snowing, so we talked about just spending the night at my friend’s house. Monica called her parents to ask and they said, “No way, if we have to come get you, we will, but you’re not spending the night with a blind date in who-knows-where.” After I thought about it, I thought it was probably what I would have said too, as a parent. So we made the trek back. We were married six months later. ROH: That must have been a busy time for you—a Master’s program and track and getting married. You had a lot of change going on all at once. What was that like? 10 MG: It was fun and hard, for the reasons that you’ve stated. I was taking a lot of credit hours. One semester I had either twenty-eight or thirty-one credit hours. It was really hard and I was really busy. I was also adjunct faculty and I taught between one and three classes a semester. I was the evening assistant manager at Godfather’s Pizza too. I was doing all of that and newly married and trying to figure out how a marriage works. My parent’s relationship and her parent’s relationship could not have been more different. I knew that and she recognized that our parents interacted in very different ways. That was hard because I had only seen things one way and she had only seen things one way. We had to figure out those dynamics and the personality of our relationship in a time where there was already a lot going on. ROH: Was she a student? MG: Yes. She ended up getting a degree in communications, which we both regret. She wanted a degree in nursing but her dad talked her out of it. He didn’t want her to be a nurse, but said that she should go to school to be a doctor. She wanted to stay at home and raise our children, but that knowledge base would have been very valuable for our family. In one way, it was good because communications was a faster degree and she was able to get her degree quickly. She got pregnant our senior year and we had our first child about six or eight weeks before she graduated. My father would come over to our little house and watch the baby while we were both in school. ROH: Where was your first house? 11 MG: It was 780 32nd Street. It was a tiny little house but we loved it. We were able to buy it because my wife had saved up some money. We drove past it because it was near where we were renting and we talked the owner into selling it to us on contract. We gave him the $2,000 that Monica had saved as a down payment. ROH: What was your first child’s name? MG: Natasha was our first. She was born in ’95. ROH: My wife stayed home with Natasha and I got a job at Lomega as a financial analyst. I made $28, 500, which was really upsetting. I felt like with the master’s degree and good grades—I was second in my class—I had hoped for more. But it was a job and I took it. It was a good experience, but I didn’t stay long. I was there for about six months when I got a call from Dutch Belnap who used to be the athletic director at Weber State. He said, “Hey, Matt, I have these guys that are looking for a chief financial officer, are you interested?” I said, “Heck yeah.” I talked to them and worked with them for three months. It was a disaster. I won’t be disparaging about what went on. It was not what I wanted to do or where I wanted to work. Luckily, I was able to go back to Lomega and they took me back in a position that was better than the one I had left. I ended up being a program manager and supervising the release of new products. Lomega started out with a ditto drive, a tape back-up drive. Later, I moved to the zip drive. It was very challenging and very fast paced. I was laid-off, which is a great story. I was in meetings until 6:30 or 7:00 p.m. one night and my card wouldn’t work to get back into my office. Somebody 12 came by and let me in. I went to my computer and my login wasn’t working. I called the IT guy and said, “Hey, what’s going on? My computer and my card aren’t working.” Then, all of the sudden, I realized I had been laid-off. We knew there were going to be massive lay-offs, but there were only two of us doing program management for the zip drive in the entire company and we went to our boss and asked, “Should we be worried?” He said, “No, if you guys weren’t here, there’s no one to do your job. There’s no way you could be let go.” So we both thought we were safe and yet we both were laid off. That didn’t last very long, but they didn’t bring me back to the same position. It was about two weeks later that they brought us back and they had me doing something similar but it was in the division in San Diego. I flew out Monday morning and flew home Friday night. I had been called to be a bishop in my church about a year before. I worked that schedule for about six months when I decided I couldn’t do it anymore. I had been applying for other jobs but my stake president worked for the city and suggested I apply for a job in neighborhood development with the city. I had been doing some real estate on the side. I applied and didn’t hear anything for three months. Then I was called in for an interview and again didn’t hear anything for quite a few more months. I left Lomega and worked at the city. I wasn’t very excited about that. ROH: What year was that? MG: I think it was the end of 1998. I told the city I couldn’t live on the salary they gave me and that I needed to continue to do real estate on the side. They said that would be okay. I basically helped with neighborhood development. I went to city 13 council meetings and presented new projects. I kept thinking that the way the city was being run didn’t make any sense. We had huge problems. Downtown was a mess and was continuing to cave, yet it seemed like we were the only ones doing anything to rebuild the town but we were doing it up in these neighborhoods. I said, “Why aren’t we doing some mixed-used development downtown?” They laughed at me and said, “That’s what we should be doing but the economic development guys aren’t going to go for anything like that.” I made other suggestions and kept saying, “Why doesn’t the city do this?” or “Why doesn’t the city do that?” I was brand new. I only worked for the city for six months total. One day, I got a call from the CAO, which is the guy right under the mayor. He said, “I understand you have a lot of ideas about what should happen in the city.” He asked me to meet with him. I went to his office and started sharing the ideas. He was mostly listening and from time to time would write things down. Then, I got to crime and I said, “We need to focus on crime. Factual or not, there’s a perceived crime issue. People think Ogden is riddled with crime and I think there needs to be a real emphasis on reducing crime.” He put down his pen and said, “There is nothing that can be done about crime. Crime is driven by demographics and the economy and there’s nothing you can do to change it.” I said, “Well, I think we can change it and I think there are cities across the country that have, though it will take a lot of work.” He put his pen down and folded his arms and I thought, “Well, this is over.” I didn’t say that, but I thanked him for his time and left soon thereafter. This was in the spring—in March. 14 I went home that night and thought, “Nothing’s going to change.” Until there is a vision and somebody who has a desire to make something happen, we’re in a vortex and this town isn’t going to escape. The guys running the city— the CAO—didn’t believe things could change. I was upset by it and asked myself if I really wanted to stay here. I felt like I was on the Titanic. A week later the mayor announced he wasn’t going to run for re-election. ROH: Who was the mayor? MG: Mayor Mecham. He was having heart failure. Nobody knew it at the time, but he was getting a heart transplant. He was a nice man, but he had several people in key positions that weren’t making anything happen. I said, “Good, hopefully there will be somebody who jumps in the race who will do something.” Then Garth Day announced he was going to run. He was just indicted up in Morgan County and sent to prison for fraud. He was on the city council and I had watched him flip-flop on issues until it drove me crazy. One day, I got up and spoke out about an issue because he was pushing an ordinance that had to do with the city yard-care regulations. They were saying, “We have these ordinances that require people to take care of their yard, but people don’t.” Garth Day was trying to get something passed where you’d put a big billboard, placard-type thing up in the person’s yard that said, “This person is not complying with Ogden City regulations.” He said, “If we do that, maybe we can shame them into compliance.” While I was attending the meeting as a staff member, I figured that since I was also an Ogden resident I could address them as a constituent. I said, “What I think we should do is not embarrass people into 15 doing it, let’s just enforce the law. I am certain that if you started enforcing the ordinances, you will change behavior. We just need to give citations and let their pocketbook change their behavior. If you put the signs up, they’re just going to tear them down.” I got in trouble the next day from my boss who said, “You should not be speaking out at these council meetings.” ROH: Who was your boss? MG: Aaron Wolf-Burtling. He said, “I understand, but let wisdom dictate. We need the council to approve our plans.” I said, “I know, but it was a dumb idea.” He said, “I know, but you still need to be careful.” Anyway, I had seen Garth and I thought, “He cannot be the next mayor. He’ll destroy this town!” I like Garth; he and I developed a good relationship, but he was not the one to run the city. I kept waiting to hear who else was going to run. I heard there was another guy that everyone acknowledged was kind of a crazy guy. So, it was kind of depressing. There were some great people at the city and I’d rubbed shoulders with a lot of people who were really capable. There were some fantastic people at the city who wanted to do things but had been here for years and maybe just accepted that this was the way it was. I went home one day and said, “Monica, what would you think if I ran for mayor?” Her father was a state senator at the time and had been chair of the Weber County Democratic Party. He was very well known as a physician in town and very well-liked by everybody. Between my father and my father-in-law, you’d think that politics was kind of ingrained in me, but I had never had a desire to run for political office. My wife 16 and I hardly ever talk about politics. She was shocked. She said, “Why would you do that?” I said, “Who’s going to run for Ogden City mayor if I don’t? The town’s in bad shape and it pays $70,000 a year. You’re not going to get the capable executive who wants to come because he thinks this would be fun. No one is going to leave their career to be the Ogden City mayor.” ROH: Give me some examples of some of the businesses that were leaving at that time. MG: Weber State. They had a downtown campus that they abandoned during that time period. When there was an Ogden City Mall downtown, Weber State had an office there. Weber abandoned that, for safety reasons. Nordstrom left. ATK Thiokol was here and they took off in the late ‘90s. There were little shops and little stores all around that shut their doors. ROH: Downtown Ogden was the premier place to shop. MG: That was before there were national chains, to be fair, but those slowly closed. It was sad. Generational businesses were going. ATK was a significant and high-paying employer who uprooted. We had salvage yards in what is now our central business district. That was my point to my wife: “There’s no one who’s going to take this on.” We had our own business, a real estate holding and management company, so we decided that we were in a position where we could run for mayor. We talked about it and I talked to some people around town. I talked to my father-in-law and asked what he thought. He liked it. He said Ogden needed somebody with new ideas and new passion. He gave me a list of people to go talk to about it. After about a week of talking to a couple people every day—I still 17 worked at the city—I got called into the city attorney’s office. One of the attorneys sat me down across the desk and said, “I understand you’re thinking about running for mayor.” I said, “How did you hear that?” He said, “Word has gotten back to the mayor that you’re talking to people around town. Have you decided?” I said, “No, I haven’t, I’m just kind of going through the process of trying to figure it out.” He said, “You can’t do that and be an employee here. If you’re going to work for the city, you have to work for the city and not campaign to try to beat your boss.” I said, “I’m pretty sure my constitutional rights give me the right to run for office if I want.” He was the nicest guy and I said, “You don’t really want to be having this conversation with me, do you?” He said, “No, I don’t.” I said, “You were sent to do this.” He nodded. I said, “Well, I’ll tell you what, you can go and tell them I’ve made up my mind and I’m going to run for mayor. You don’t have to fire me, I’ll quit.” I went home and told Monica. ROH: I don’t understand how that could be legal. MG: It wasn’t legal and he knew it wasn’t. He was sent to talk to me and later I found out why. It was because the mayor had somebody who was running and he didn’t want me running against him. I’m sure that the CAO didn’t want me running either because it was clear that his ideas and my ideas weren’t aligning. I was twenty-eight at the time. I went around and talked to everyone about it. Inevitably, as I went around to people like, John E. Lindquist, and they’d say, “Why don’t you run for city council first?” I’d say, “I don’t have any interest in a political career and spending time to work up to become mayor because Ogden has problems now. If you and others think that my ideas are good ones and that I 18 can help turn the tide for the city, then great, I’m willing to do it. If not, I’m not going to try for the council.” John A. Lindquist said, “How can I help you?” I said, “I need money.” He pulled out his checkbook and wrote me a check. I felt like I was on cloud nine because I had the support of John A. Lindquist, who was the patriarch of the city and he’d just endorsed me. That was a real turning point for me. From there it was a lot of campaigning. ROH: Today is December 1, 2011 and we are in the office of Mayor Matthew Godfrey. Present is Matthew Godfrey and Rebecca Ory-Hernandez from Weber State University. We’ll pick up today from where you started campaigning for mayor. MG: People started calling me and I had a few surprise phone calls from businessmen who said, “I want you to meet with somebody. He’s run political campaigns across the country and he was a political advisor to Ronald Reagan.” I met with the gentleman and he was very helpful. His name was Chuck Bailey; he’s passed away since. That began the journey of knocking doors and meeting people and trying to win an election where you’re virtually unknown in a community. It was probably the end of May when I made the decision and then in June I had my campaign declared. There were a lot of us who ran. My strategy and belief was that I needed to knock on every door in the city. I wasn’t sophisticated enough to know that you don’t knock on every door—you only knock the doors of those who actually vote. I was fortunate enough to win in the primary in October and then the office in November. ROH: What was a day in the campaign like for you? 19 MG: I had my own real estate holding and management company which I’d been building for several years and was doing full-time. I had three days a week that I would go and run that business. In the evenings, I would knock doors from five until 8:30 or 9:00. During the day, when I wasn’t knocking doors or working, I’d organize volunteers and put together materials. There’s a whole logistical side of it, with vendors and signs, and I had to organize volunteers for much of that. I knocked on doors Tuesday night through Friday night and then all day on Saturday. I learned that you can’t go out at 9:30 a.m. or even 10:00 a.m. on Saturday, which was strange for me but for other people that was still sleeping time. ROH: How many volunteers did you have? MG: It was mainly family and friends. One of the ones who helped me a lot was Brandon Stevenson, who is now a city council member. We’d gone to high school together and I knew who he was but we weren’t friends. I was better friends with his little brother. I got a call from Brandon saying he wanted to help and he was extremely helpful. He helped knock on doors and campaigned in his neighborhood. A lot of my family came out and knocked on doors and handed out fliers and put up signs. In the last campaign I had a large group that came to help, but usually it’s a small group willing to put in the time to help you out. ROH: How much money were you expected to raise for your first campaign and what was your platform? MG: The most that had ever been raised previously was $14,000 by Mayor Mecham. I figured that if I raised more money than that, then I’d be in good shape. I ended 20 up raising about $28,000, and I was still outspent two-to-one. I think Bob Hunter spent $64,000 or something like that. I had probably as many signs out as Bob did, but I remember all of his four-by-eight signs had pictures of himself placed on top the week before the election. It was like Bob was everywhere. It was discouraging and we thought, “There’s no way. He’s spent way more money and put out more fliers and more signs. He’s inundated the town with Bob Hunter.” The platform that I ran on was three very specific things: lowering taxes, economic revitalization, and reducing crime. There were also components of that like getting into neighborhoods and making a difference, but I thought that those three main ideas were what people wanted. I had plans for each and everything mapped out. I still have the brochures—I kept them so I would remember what I told people I would do. We would have meetings with my directors where we would go through and check some of them off. Some of them came off the list because I came into the office and realized it was a bad idea. I should say; I realized it wasn’t the right place to put resources. Things changed as I learned more, but we really focused on accomplishing what we told people we were going to do. You naively think that people will remember what you told them you were going to do and when you’d tell them you did it, they would applaud. To this day, when I tell people, “We lowered your property taxes three times.” They say, “No, my taxes go up every year.” I say, “No, your city property taxes were lowered three times.” Nobody remembers and nobody believes it, but it was important to me and, I hope, to our team that we did what we told people we were going to do. 21 ROH: What was your reaction to winning your first campaign? MG: I was surprised. My wife and I worked really hard up until the last day and did everything we knew we could do. Bob Hunter came over to my house the morning of the election. He gave us flowers and said it had been great to run against us. He was a real gentleman. He said, “If you win, I’ll be your biggest supporter.” I thanked him. After he left, I said to my wife, “Not only has he outspent and he’s everywhere, he’s now out-classed us!” We went out to breakfast after that and we’ve actually made it a tradition that every four years on the Tuesday of elections, we go out to breakfast as a family. As you wait, it’s a very anxious day. It was a fun evening that night at my house. Bob had rented the Radisson Hotel and had a fancy shindig there across from the city offices. It wasn’t as advanced then as it is now—at that time you had to have somebody there at the recorder’s office in order to relay information. I had someone down at the office getting the tallies and we were calling him and getting updates. As the results came in precinct by precinct, I think we won every single precinct. There may have been one or two we didn’t win, and we only barely won each precinct, but one after another we won almost all of them. I think it was down to the second or third to the last when I did the math and realized we had won, there was no way he could beat us. It was surreal. I don’t think anyone in the room thought it was going to happen. That’s the moment when you give your wife a hug and kiss and say, “Now what do we do?” We needed to go and shake Bob’s hand and thank the community, so when the results were in, we went down to city hall. They were relaying the data 22 from the old council chambers and it couldn’t have been a colder reception by everybody. We all felt so awkward when we went in. There were a few token congratulations, but mostly it was really gloomy and we felt like complete outsiders. Bob was gracious and we thanked him. He reiterated his promise to be our biggest supporter. He is a very close friend and ally. I have appreciated that and really respect him. We left soon after because it was so uncomfortable that night. I think most everyone there supported Bob and had expected Bob to win and they were worried about the change of the new guy coming into office. I had to sell my business because I wanted to start working for the city right away. I was coming in and meeting with people and trying to get to know what was going on. They were nice enough to give me an office. It was in a corner by the library and had a lot of old books in it. They put a desk in it for me. The mayor did not support me. He was going to remain neutral in the race, but after I won the primary he came out and supported Bob. He was not cordial to me. I had made no bones about my intent to replace two of his main people. I’m sure if a mayoral candidate were saying that about my people, I’d feel the same way. I started work in that little corner and I worked pretty much every day. I met with people and started to form a budget and a plan. I started figuring out who my team was going to be. I went up to Weber State and met with Mike Vaughn, Dick Richards, and Chuck Bailey, some guys from Iomega and other members of the community that I trusted as good business minds in order to figure out, “What do I do? How to I transition this kind of an organization? Do I come in and take it slow or do I come in and make changes right away?” We had 23 a lot of dialogue as a group and laid out a plan, which was to take things slow— to come in and learn the landscape, let people prove themselves, and make changes as they became necessary. We transitioned quickly between November and January when I was thrown into office. The mayor had one meeting where he met with me and it was fascinating because he didn’t have a computer on his desk. When I came in, there was not a single file in his desk. I’d asked for the meeting to have him pass along nuggets of wisdom and projects and whatever else he felt like he should pass on to me. It was a very brief meeting. He gave me a handful of suggestions; there was an individual that he said, “Whatever you do, don’t fire this person.” He said, “Of all the conferences and conventions you should go to, this one is the most valuable.” He said a couple more little things and that was it. It wasn’t, “Here’s what we’re working on, here’s our strategy, here’s the lay of the land…” We really started from scratch. Luckily, the administration stayed. I was so new. I had been here about two months when Christie, who had been his admin and was mine, came in and said, “So, are you keeping me?” I said, “Of course, why would you think not?” She said, “We didn’t know if you were keeping me or if we were leaving.” I said, “I’m so sorry. It never even crossed my mind.” I had no idea that they often change out administrative assistants. She was a phenomenal assistant. Those kinds of things were all new to me, but luckily Christie was there and helped out a lot. The CAO and the economic director both resigned the day I took office; I had said I would replace both of them. I felt that they were not doing a good job, but 24 my intent was to work with them and if they could step it up. We hired Stuart Reid to be the economic director, and brought Nate Pierce up from within the organization to be the CAO. You’re inundated when you’re new. Everyone wants to meet you and you have a million new best friends. You go through a process where your just trying to figure out what’s going on and what’s important while you’re building your team. It takes time to figure out how to work together as a team. Mecham’s style was very different than mine. There were a lot of changes. We put more resources into the police department and into economic development while we were cutting taxes. We had to make significant changes in the organization while we were making those things happen. We tried to ease into them gradually, but from the city’s perspective, it was lightening speed and dramatic organizational changes almost overnight. ROH: How would you describe your style? MG: I am very team-oriented. I believe in having a clear vision of where we are headed and what we want to happen, then establishing clear goals and giving people responsibility to make those components happen. I think my role is to make sure there is that vision and then to push the organization, to make sure that they know that we’re going to make these things happen. My role changed over the years, depending on who was there. For example, Stuart Reid was a very strong leader and liked to own everything that was in his box. He did not want anyone meddling in economic development, which was too bad because I loved economic development. He wanted complete control and so I just held him 25 accountable for the outcomes and he would deliver. He had his own way of going about it and he wanted to be left alone. On the other hand, our current economic director wants me to participate and comes to me for help. That’s Richard McKonkie, a wonderful man who has been the deputy director of economic development in the city for many years. I’m fine adjusting my role depending on what is needed. Some departments do everything on their own and as long as they’re producing their outcomes, that’s all I care about. It’s been fun to see the changes in the organization and how my work has changed. ROH: How many terms have you been mayor? MG: Three. I’ll be finishing up twelve years as mayor. I’ve been here longer now than anybody except Lorrin Farr, who was the first mayor of Ogden. He didn’t actually have elections. He was appointed and once a year at church he was sustained as mayor. He went to serve a mission and another mayor came in and Lorrin Farr came back after his mission and served a few more years. I think he served twenty-three years as mayor. He had quite a different environment. ROH: Who appointed him? The church? MG: Yes, basically. When they settled the territory, people were given assignments to go and settle different areas and fill different roles. ROH: How would you summarize your first term? MG: It was hard. The council relationship was really difficult. I was, obviously, brand new to politics and leading an organization of this size. City government was very different from the private sector. I knew it would be challenging, but in my first meeting with the chair of the city council, he told me that his relationship with 26 Mayor Mecham was terrible, that the council hated Mayor Mecham and Mayor Mecham hated the council until the last two years. He said, “The mayor learned he had to come to us and listen to us and once he figured that out, it was fine.” I went back after this meeting and my staff said, “Don’t you dare do what that arrogant bugger is telling you to do.” I also knew that Mayor Mecham had serious health problems in those last two years and he wasn’t working as much, so maybe that made him easier to get along with. I took my staff’s advice and tried to be cordial and work with the council, but the chair would chew me out for not going to him about things. I said, “I have advisors and they are the people advising me on things. That is not your role.” It was a difficult relationship for a few years. In hindsight, I wonder what would have happened if I’d gone to him and said, “Sure, I’d love to partner with you.” If I’d made them feel included and a part of things, I wonder if it would have calmed the waters. I would love a chance to go back and try to change that dynamic. It was really hard to get projects through. It was an ambitious agenda. We wanted to recruit 2,000 jobs to the downtown, 2,000 people living in the downtown area, and the last one I think was 200,000 square feet of new retail, office, and entertainment in the downtown area. That was hard because there hadn’t been new housing in the downtown area in over 120 years and the businesses were leaving. From the time I was elected to the time I took office— Nordstrom had already left, J.C. Penny announced they were leaving and Mier Frank announced they were leaving. I thought we were going to be rehabilitating this mall and it emptied out within days of my taking office. That was challenging 27 because the community loved that mall and preferred it to the Newgate Mall. The community wanted Nordstrom and J.C. Penny and Bon Marche back. I can’t tell you how many times I heard that. Well, we tried. Nordstrom was livid with Ogden because they had tried to stay and when they had come out for a trip, apparently they had a meeting scheduled with the former mayor and his economic development director and Nordstrom got blown off. The economic development director was skiing and the mayor wasn’t available to meet with them—and it was literally one of the Nordstrom family members there for the meeting. After getting blown off, Nordstrom said, “We’re done.” They wanted their space rehabilitated, they wanted their entrance re-done, and they wanted to know there was a commitment to seeing the mall flourish. Apparently, the owner of the mall had died or gone bankrupt and so Nordstrom was coming to make sure the city was monetarily committed to the mall, but the city blew them off and they said, “We’re out of here.” That started the chain of events where all the anchor tenants vacated the mall. We met with Mier and Frank several times. We flew back east to see them. It didn’t work out. The feeling was, “This mall is never going to work. You’re going to have to tear it down.” We told the community that all the developers were saying the mall had to be torn down and the universal response from the community was, “It’s a beautiful mall and it’s only twenty years old, you can’t tear it down.” We were saying, “Nobody wants it. If we want a unique retail and entertainment center, we’re going to have to tear it down.” The community was 28 angry, understandably so. They didn’t understand why we had to put money into this and why we couldn’t just get Nordstrom to come back. We announced the river project, which was a sixty-acre development project on both sides of the Ogden River that we wanted to start. That meant we were going to have to be buying homes. When creating an RDA at that time, we had the ability to use eminent domain to acquire those properties. People were livid. It barely passed in the council. It was very difficult and was controversial. There were always huge groups of opposition when we did these projects. We did several projects on 25th Street, like the five-acre parcel that had been empty for forty years that we wanted to rebuild. Many members of the council and much of the community wanted to do this stuff for free and nobody wanted any risk. It doesn’t work that way. It’s our town and we need to invest in our own community. It was very challenging. We didn’t have any money, so we had to be really creative in how we moved forward whether it was rebuilding the mall, developing the river project, or redeveloping 25th Street. Wall Avenue was a disaster, there were two different salvage yards in that area—our central business district had two salvage yards. We had to get those out of here and buy up property. ROH: How did you manage that? MG: We were very creative in finding little pockets of money. One of them was the IRS building, when we came into office, the IRS was reported to have been looking around for a place to build a new campus; their buildings were old and non-functional. I was thrilled when I heard about it. As soon as I hired Stuart Reid, I said, “Stuart, here’s a contact. Our guy has been working on it. Will you 29 call the IRS and tell them that we’d like them to move downtown.” They had already looked at downtown and said nothing suited their needs there. Well, Stuart and his guys found two administrative orders signed by the president; one said if there’s downtown space available, then they needed to occupy it; the second said that they had to use a historic building if one was available. We found a historic building in downtown and took it to the IRS and said, “You have to come. Here’s a site. It’s downtown and a historic building we want you to use.” They said, “No, we’re not going to do it.” I wasn’t in the meeting, but it was reported back to me that the IRS was told, “You will do it or we will sue you for not following your own rules.” Can you imagine doing that to the IRS? So, kicking and screaming they came. We purchased the property and sold it to a developer and we actually made a little money in the deal. Those early projects were critical to revitalizing the downtown area. It gave us a story to take to other people, “Look at this, here’s a new development on 25th street and here are these new buildings downtown and all these new jobs coming to the area.” Little by little we would build on the success and get people to come. Virtually every time we had to come up with some creative incentive to make these things come together. People will never appreciate how challenging it was. In fact, the development director came in one day and he said, “Do you see my hands?” They were all red. I said, “What’s going on?” He said, “I’m losing the skin off of my fingers. This is so stressful. I can’t sleep at night because I’m trying to figure out how to bring these things together and now I’m literally losing the skin off my body because of the stress.” 30 We had a city council member who sort of had this constant theme of, “I’m supportive of the project. I just don’t think we should be funding it. If it’s such a great idea, the private sector should do it.” It was like, “Where is a decayed downtown where the city just steps aside and the private sector just comes in and solves all the problems? I want to see the economic model where that has ever worked.” It hasn’t. Cities have to jump in and take part. We heard that all the time and it was like their justification not to participate. One council member had her daughter going around in the river project handing out fliers that told them what they had to do to stop the project from going forward. It included some kind of lawsuit or legal action that they could take against the city. I understood voting against it, but why in the world would a city council be acting against it? She too supported the project; she just didn’t think the city should fund it. We kept asking her how to fund it without the city taking the primary role, and of course she had no suggestions. Apparently, it was just that the way we were doing it was wrong and there was surely a better way to do it but she didn’t have any idea what it was. The same thing happened with The Junction. The same city council member opposed it. Mary Hall was the biggest opponent to all the things we were trying to do. It took about a year for us to realize we had to tear down the mall—it was about 2001 when we realized we had to take it down. We were talking about it all through 2000 and I think we finally got it down before the Olympics. We had to create some anchors and draws for the Junction. There were three key pieces to make the Junction work. One was the Tree House, 31 which eventually got put together but was so hard. The Tree House was one, the second was the Salomon Center, and the third was the movie theater. I got several phone calls saying the Tree House wasn’t going to come, but they hung in there through great difficulty and eventually they did. That piece came together and the next was working with Larry Miller. There’s a huge story behind that, but Larry Miller finally decided to build theaters in the downtown area just to help out the community here. Larry asked me if he would make money if he built the theaters in Ogden. I told him I didn’t know if he was going to make money but commented, “We need you to come and do it because you have the Midas touch. If you come to downtown Ogden and build this theater, I’m convinced that the rest of the mall will come together and the downtown area will revitalize.” That’s turned out to be the case and he’s made money. He’s been very pleased. He told me that before he passed away. They agreed to come in if we got the Salomon Center. Tree House was already moving forward, expecting that we were going to do the rest of it. The Salomon Center was tough because the private sector wasn’t going to do it unless the city was committed. We ended up having to be the owner of the property. We got a lease from two different entities that were going to run it. One was the Gold’s Gym who also runs the Flow Rider, iRock and iFly. The second was the Fat Cats, which includes Costa Vida and the Pizza Factory. They agreed to lease the building from the city and we were using tax increment to fund about half of the construction cost. Once again, we had people saying, “This is never going to work. You’re crazy. You’re going to bankrupt the city. If this is such a 32 good idea, why wouldn’t the private sector do it on their own?” We heard it over and over. I was sued personally as well as in my capacity as mayor. I had to hire a personal attorney out of my pocket because they sued me as a candidate and the city couldn’t cover my attorney costs. ROH: Citizens of Ogden? MG: Some were citizens of Ogden, a lot were not. Dorothy Littral sued me and ended up losing. The judge ordered her to pay my attorney’s fees. Those were dark days. There was a petition drive going on to stop the Salomon Center. If they got a certain number of signatures they could get it on the ballot and we knew this was going to be a tough project to explain to voters. This was a blue-collar community and it was not lost on any of us that going out to these sixty and seventy year old retired Hill Field and railroad workers and say, “We need to build a center that has indoor skydiving and it’s going to be good for you. You need this.” We knew it was a tough sell, but we also knew we needed to do something unique that would have a regional draw. It was going to be impossible to communicate in a way that our demographic was going to grasp. A referendum was going to be challenging. I went home one day and said, “Monica, if they get the signatures, we’re done. We won’t get the Center, which means we won’t get the theater. Nobody is going to come to our town if we’ve got twenty-acres of city center sitting fallow.” We barely had four votes on the council. I asked Monica if it was okay if I used personal money to make fliers and spread them out. The city couldn’t use money to tell people not to sign the petition. After work, I would go home and print fliers 33 and deliver them. My wife was so awesome. She would go to the places that were allowing people to set up booths to sign a petition and she would go to the owner of the place with a flier and explain to them why it was so bad to have people signing the petition. She called me one day just sobbing because she’d explained it to a store owner and he was not very nice about it. People in line to sign the petition had been very rude. I felt so terrible—here I am making my wife go out and do the dirty work for what the city needed. ROH: What year was this? MG: It would have been 2005. Those were really dark times. If the Junction didn’t happen, the town was done. It was hard to come up with an optimistic vision of what might happen if the Junction didn’t get built. Luckily they lost their lawsuits and didn’t get enough signatures on their petitions. We barely got enough votes to get it through. One of the former council members came and spoke at the meeting the night of the last vote to get the Salomon Center moving forward. She said to the council, “You know better.” I’ll never forget her words and her fervor. She said, “You guys are smarter than this and you know better than to approve this.” It was a 4-3 vote, barely passing. A couple of them lost their seat because of that vote. That night, there were several that were claiming that Larry Miller wasn’t going to build a theater and that it was all a farce and this was all going to collapse like a house of cards and we were indebting our citizens. We knew it was a huge gamble, but we knew that anything less was sure to fail. We needed to do something big enough to show that this was a new Ogden and a new vision 34 for the community. We didn’t know if it was going to work. We had done our research, but none of these things had been built in a community our size before. We knew it was a roll of the dice, but we were obviously thrilled a year later when it was successful. Even now, in this recession, they have done remarkably well. ROH: What about the economic development along 25th Street? It’s doing so much better. MG: Luckily, we had some great anchored tenants on 25th Street and unlike the rest of downtown, we weren’t working from scratch. We had Roosters and Great Harvest that were doing great. MG: [Addition submitted by Matthew Godfrey] I believe the year was 2005. That was a dark time for all of us that were working so hard to turn the city around. It felt like mission impossible and that everything that could go wrong did. The financing was enormously complex and it was challenging to keep all of the players in the project from the private sector engaged because they were taking a big risk and were being bloodied by the CAVE (Citizens Against Virtually Everything) people in the process. I was working long hours and it was highly stressful. What made it bearable were all of the good people that stepped up to help. We had citizens that I hadn’t met previously who showed up to support the idea. Dave Hardman from the Chamber of Commerce and Dan Musgrave from Downtown Ogden Inc. rallied their organizations to show up to the city council meetings and show support. I believe the contrast they provided against the negative people helped us get the four votes we needed to move the project forward. We feel gratified that the project worked as we had hoped. The Salomon Center was built, Larry 35 Miller theaters and Boyer built out their portion. The hotel was even completed east of the Salomon Center as we had planned. The Junction has been a catalyst for further redevelopment in downtown and has been the regional attraction we hoped for. I will always be grateful for those people that stepped up when times were hard. My family was always there. My father passed away during my tenure as mayor, I think about him often. My wife has always been and incredible support. I couldn’t have asked for anything more than she provided. My parents as well as Monica’s parents were equally supportive. My kids took a lot of grief from other kids in school because of the things I did as Mayor and I feel terrible that all these people that I care deeply about had to suffer for what I did at work. Hopefully, we made a difference in the community. We exceeded all of our goals and ended up recruiting over 8,000 jobs, leading the nation in job growth my last year in office. We were also able to recruit over $1.2 billion of private investment, redevelop over 130 acres of downtown with another 80 acres underway. We facilitated the building of well over half a million square feet of office space and in the process lowered crime by over 30 percent. We left Ogden City in a much better financial position then we found it, having established a “rainy day” fund for the first time in the city’s history, to my knowledge. We were able to turn the tide on some of the historic housing in downtown that had turned into terrible rentals and recruit home ownership back to the area. We also added significant amounts of open space, new trails, kayak parks and other recreational amenities. We cleaned up the extremely blighted Ogden River 36 and made it the public asset it should have always been. We lowered property taxes three times and never raised them. Along with all of that there were many projects that we weren’t able to finish that we really wanted to complete. Connecting Ogden to Snowbasin is a project that needs to happen. It will create the opportunity for Ogden in terms of new high-paying jobs, new tax revenue and retail that wouldn’t come in any other way. I’m sure I’ve studied this issue in more detail than any person on the planet and I’m convinced of the good it will do for Ogden. There were many projects and initiatives we worked on that I regret not being able to finish. The last year or so in office, it felt like the City Council and other members of the community felt like we had done enough. I don’t think they understand that if we don’t continue to improve our town it will decay. For all of the enormous difficulties of serving as mayor for 12 years, I am grateful for the experience. I hope we have made the Ogden City better for the coming generation.