Oral History Program W. Earl Garr Interviewed by Mack S. Taft circa 1960s Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah W. Earl Garr Interviewed by Mack S. Taft circa 1960s Copyright © 2016 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Great Depression in Weber County, Utah, is an Oral History Project by Mack S. Taft for completion of his Master’s Thesis at Utah State University during the summer of 1969. The forty-five interviews address the Great Depression through the eyes of individuals in several different occupations including: Bankers, Laborers, Railroad Workers, Attorneys, Farmers, Educators, Businessmen, Community and Church Leaders, Housewives, Children and Physicians. All of these individuals lived in Weber County from 1929 to 1941. The interviews were based on what they remembered about the depression, how they felt about those events and how it affected their life then and now. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Garr, W. Earl, an oral history by Mack S. Taft, circa 1960s, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. 1 Abstract: This is an oral history interview with W. Earl Garr. Mr. Garr discusses the closing of the Ogden State Bank, bank runs in Weber County, and the federal bank holiday declared by President Roosevelt. The interviewer is Mack Taft. MT: Mr. Garr, will you give me your full name for my recording, please? EG: My full name is W. Earl Garr. MT: Where did you live during the time 1929 to 1939? EG: Well, for a short period my wife and I lived at 2826 Adams Avenue, Ogden, Utah. Shortly thereafter we built this home, at 1118 Liberty Avenue. We’ve been in this location since that time. MT: Where were you employed during those years? EG: I was employed at the Commercial Security Bank during those years, and I was with the bank forty-five and a half years, up ‘till the time of my retirement. MT: When did you retire? EG: January 1st, 1970. MT: What do you remember about the year ’29 and the crash and things along that line? Is there anything that particularly sticks in your mind from that period? EG: Well, of course 1929, as you mentioned, was when the stock market really took a slide. That was the beginning of the Great Depression, as I recall. 2 MT: What is your recollection of the Ogden State Bank? What do you remember about its’ closing and so forth? EG: Well, the Ogden State Bank at that time was one of the larger banks, probably the largest bank in the area. They’d probably overextended on their loaning, and some of their loans just weren’t properly covered, and they closed their doors – I believe that was in ’31 or ’32. MT: 1931 as I recall. EG: Which was probably one of the – what can I say – the closing of the bank affected the economy of Weber County more than anything, I believe, in this area. MT: Looking back on that now, do you think there are things that might have been done to prevent the closing of the bank? I realize that’s a rather tough question, and only an opinion type thing. EG: Well, of course the way things are now, the government would step in on any emergency like that and try to avoid the collapse of an institution like that. Of course, provisions have been made since that time to guarantee the deposits and guarantee to the people that the banks will remain open. MT: Now, in your personal life during that period of time, were you fully employed all during those years? EG: Yes. I was very fortunate. I haven’t missed one day’s work throughout my working period, from ’29 till the time I retired. 3 MT: That is an excellent… EG: However, during this time I’ve seen many people laid off. We had some layoffs at the bank during that time. I’ve seen many people laid off during the depression. MT: Do you recall somewhat of – did it seem that you earned sufficient money during that period of time to take care of your needs and so forth, or did the Depression affect you also? EG: No, I can say that we lived very comfortably through the Depression, for the simple reason that prices were down. During the Depression, prices decreased, and although there did come a time when Roosevelt put a freeze on prices and wages – but up to that time, prices went down, prices of food and so on. MT: In general then, could we generalize that a person who was employed and had regular work got along fairly well during the Depression? EG: Oh, yes. Definitely, I would say so. MT: Due to the low cost of goods and so forth? EG: Yes. Mrs. Garr: Good morning. MT: Good morning, Mrs. Garr, how are you? Mrs. Garr: Just fine. MT: Why don’t you sit with us, here? 4 Mrs. Garr: I was just coming in to get a book, I have a lesson to give tonight. EG: You’re on the tape, I guess you know that. MT: That’s fine, nothing wrong with her being on the tape. Mrs. Garr: Well, he can remember everything, I’m sure. I’ll be in the kitchen if you need me. MT: Okay. What about the banking business at that time? What were your major problems, as you recall, in the bank, which might give a clue as to the economy of the time and so forth? EG: That’s a hard one. MT: It is. EG: Well, of course, at that time there were no guaranteed loans. At the present time, the government guarantees your real estate loans; the FHA, the veteran’s VA loans, and half a dozen other loans. They’re guaranteed by the government. At that time, the banks were on their own. They made loans that they thought were good loans, secured properly, and there was no government backing as far as loans were concerned. MT: What you’re saying implies to me, then, that maybe the other banks in the area at least had their anxiety during the time of the close of the other bank. Is that correct, or how would you evaluate that? 5 EG: Well, there were at that time, just as there is now, conservative bankers and bankers who were not so conservative. Now, if you’re referring to the Ogden State Bank, perhaps they were a little more liberal in some of their loans, and they didn’t have proper backing for some of their loans. MT: Now, some of the other bankers that I have talked to indicated to me that actually, if a real sizable run came on the bank, that there was probably no bank in the area that could have withstood this. Does that seem like a reasonable statement? EG: Well, of course most of the banks belonged to the Federal Reserve System, and they could put up their notes and their loans as collateral with the District Federal Reserve for actual cash if they needed it. Of course, that wouldn’t, as you say, be enough to withstand a run on a bank. MT: As you remember back now, do you remember having any personal anxiety as to whether Commercial Security Bank might be pressured to where they might start a run, or something along this line? I know that’s asking a lot of you, to remember back that far, but do you remember anything along this line? EG: Well, the banks of Weber County did have runs. We had runs on our banks. However, this was at the time of the closing of the Ogden State Bank, which was ’31. It was at that time or shortly thereafter that Roosevelt declared the Bank Holiday. Now, when was that? ’32? MT: That would be ’33, when he first entered office. 6 EG: But at the time the Ogden State Bank closed, we did have runs on the local banks. MT: Now, do you remember anything that your bank did to prevent runs or to restore confidence in the people at that time? EG: Are you referring to the bank holiday? MT: No, during the period of time when the Ogden State Bank went out. EG: There were runs, but I can’t recall – I was thinking that was the time of the bank holiday. MT: No, the runs came earlier than that. They came right along the same time that the Ogden State Bank closed, in ’31. Now, do you remember staying open late, or anything along this line, during that period of time, to accommodate people who wanted to come in? EG: Well, I think we impressed upon the people that they could receive their money if they wanted it, and now you mention it, I believe we did state that we would have our doors open as long as people wanted to come and get their money, which did restore confidence with the public. MT: Yes. That’s a point that one of the other bankers had mentioned, and I wanted to see if that did correspond with your remembrance on the thing also. What was the general feeling of people of that time? As you recall it, did they lack confidence, or what was their general feeling as you recall, in conversation and so forth with different people? 7 EG: Well, I think it was more or less a panic situation. The people had lost confidence – speaking of politics – with President Hoover. Of course, this was brought out in the 1932 election, when there was a landslide, and Roosevelt was elected President. I think that was the thing, that people had lost confidence in the nation as a whole, I guess, and the President – President Hoover. MT: Are there any characteristics that you feel are in your general makeup today which might have come through as a result of the Depression? What I’m fishing for here, do you feel you’re more conservative or less conservative than you may have been, or – just elaborate on that, if you would. EG: That’s exactly the thing that came to my mind when you asked that question. A lot of the people who came out of that area, I think are pretty conservative. MT: What advice, now, do you give your children along this line, Mr. Garr? In conversation, say, with Orrin or some of your other children, I’m sure you must give them advice. What is your advice to them? EG: Well, I’ve given my children advice along the conservative line. I’ve found out that over the years, I’m too conservative. I have an older son who’s in the motel business, and he’s just exactly the opposite. He’s done so well financially, down on the coast, that had he been conservative, as I am, he just wouldn’t have gotten along in this old world. MT: That’s an interesting twist to the thing. Very interesting. There are, of course, areas where conservatism is necessary, even for a liberal – where would you draw the line on those? What, in other words, air your views a little bit on – oh, 8 the present move to different credit card systems and so forth along this line. Say, MasterCharge, bank merit cards, and this type of thing. What’s your views there? EG: Well, of course I think this credit situation, speaking of credit cards, is probably a little bit out of hand. It’s so easy to establish credit, and also easy to overdo the thing. Of course, we have so many bankruptcies, which is probably partially caused by some of this easy credit. MT: Is there anything else that you remember about your neighbors, or people who were closely associated with you, as to how they lived, how they got along, maybe some of the trials and so forth that they had during that time? EG: Well, like I’ve stated before, there were many layoffs during that time, and at that time, we had no employment compensation. So it was up to the head of the family if he was laid off from his job to walk the streets and try to find employment, and if he couldn’t find employment, I’ve known men to buy these little knives and trinkets and so on and go from door to door to make a dollar. Of course, we hear about people in the East selling apples and so on – I don’t think things like that happened in this area, but it was just a matter of making a job for yourself if you couldn’t find employment. We also hear about the soup lines in the larger cities. I suppose we had that here to an extent, but there again, the Depression probably wasn’t felt in this particular area like it was in the East Coast. 9 MT: Do you remember where you secured your food at that time? Say, your fruit and vegetables and things along that line. Did you go to the stores to purchase those, or did you go direct to a farmer, or how did you secure those for your own family? EG: Well, over the years, we’ve had a back yard garden, which helped us out some as far as vegetables and fruit, but as I recall at that time, many of the farmers couldn’t sell their fruit or their vegetables, and they would advertise that if people needed potatoes or fruit or vegetables, if they’d go out into their garden or farms, they could secure them without cost. MT: I interviewed Earl Paul, who was a bishop at that time, and he mentioned this – he mentioned that he called a meeting of the unemployed in his ward, and filled the building. They organized on that basis, where they would pick up potatoes and so forth on a share basis, where they’d take a certain percent of whatever they picked up, or the same with other fruits and vegetables. EG: So that worked out pretty good then. I don’t think that would work now. People don’t want to work, that kind of work. MT: All right. That’s an interesting comment. Is there anything else? Oh, one other thing. When were you married? EG: ’29. MT: 1929. Boy, you got in just on the start of the thing here. ‘Course you were fortunate enough to be employed through there, so you didn’t feel the pinch of it, did you. 10 EG: Now, let me talk a little bit about that. My wife was working for a stock broker’s office. J Hoagland Company in Ogden, at the time. She was eighteen and I was twenty-one, and I was at the bank. We were married July the 3rd of 1929. Now, when was the crash? You’ll have to tell me. MT: It was in October. EG: October. So from October, for the next few years, we had some nervous times, wondering whether she would lose her job, or whether I would lose my job. Now, at that time, also, during the dead of the Depression, there was a lot of talk about laying off the ladies who were working in industry, which people thought would relieve the thing, if they could get the ladies off the rolls of the employed. MT: In talking with some of the schoolteachers, I find that almost all lady teachers, if not all, who were married were laid off during that time. Now, this was an interesting thing too. EG: Yes, I think that was the thing they tried to accomplish in the schools. That probably carried over into some industry, to an extent. MT: Now, is there anything else that you think of that might be of interest? Is there any interesting happening that took place that you can think of that might indicate the spirit of the times and so forth, such as what you did for entertainment or anything along that line that you’d like to share with me? EG: Well now, you probably already talked to somebody about the bank holiday, haven’t you? 11 MT: Yes. But if you have some comments on it, let’s go with those. EG: They’ve explained to you about the script that was rented? MT: Just briefly. Go ahead on the script here, I have four minutes. EG: Well, President Roosevelt called a bank holiday. And as you say, I guess that was in ’33 or ’32, because actually many of the banks were having a bad time, they were having runs. So the holiday was called, and all of the banks in the country were closed. Now, we in Weber County, just like in any other town or county, we didn’t know whether the banks were going to open in a week, or two weeks, or a month, so we prepared here by having script printed so that we could have some currency or money to transact business with here in the area. I was called out of bed probably at midnight one night, and was told to go down to the Ogden litho, where the script was being printed. So down there, as they cut this script into currency size, it had to all be signed, personally signed, by a bank – either an official or employee. So we worked all night signing this script, putting it in bundles and verifying it, getting ready to use it if we had to. However, it was only a day or so until the banks were reopened. The President asked that the banks be reopened, and the funds were guaranteed. That was the beginning of the FDIC, the Federal – well. The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation. Of course, the banks since that time – that is, the members that participate, which is most of the banks, have the funds guaranteed by the federal deposit guarantee – by the FDIC. MT: Back again now, what did you and Mrs. Garr do for entertainment? 12 EG: Well now, there again as we mentioned a little while ago, actually we weren’t affected very much by the Depression, because we were both fully employed. Now, what do you have in mind? MT: Oh, just what kind of entertainment did you participate in? Did you go dancing, or to the movies, or were you alone at home, or what did you do? EG: At that time, the large dance halls were in operation. White City and the Berthana were two large dance halls, and they were used a lot for dancing, every night of the week except Sunday. Of course, the movies. MT: What about church activities during that time? Were they more prevalent than they are today, or what’s your recollection there? EG: Well, of course we’ve always had lots of church activity. Plays, drama and things along this line. Of course, at that time the wards did go in an awful lot for one-act plays and three-act plays. Our drama department, I’m sure, was more active than at the present time. MT: Well, is there anything else you think of that might indicate a spirit of the times? What kind of an automobile did you drive? EG: When we got married, we had a 1927 Chevrolet Coach. They called it a Coach. Shortly thereafter we got a 1929 Chevrolet Coach. MT: Do you recall approximately what an automobile like that cost you then? EG: Yes; as I recall, that ’29 Chevrolet Coach, which was a two-door automobile, cost me around $900. Now, an interesting thing about that was, I kept it for almost ten 13 years when I made the change, and this was during the time when they weren’t making passenger automobiles for sale. I think that was 1940 or ’41 when I let that thing go, and I got almost $900 out of it, after driving it all that time. MT: That is an interesting thing. EG: ‘Course, that $900 would only be worth two or three hundred actual, comparatively. MT: Well, I surely appreciate your help, and you sharing these ideas with me, Mr. Garr. I’ll try and keep you posted on how I come out with this project. EG: Okay. It’s been a pleasure talking with you, Mack. MT: Well, thank you very much.