Oral History Program Lonnie Chambers Barker Interviewed by Karla Chambers 13 July 1980 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Lonnie Chambers Barker Interviewed by Karla Chambers 13 July 1980 Copyright © 2012 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in University Archives. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The Weber State College/University Student Projects have been created by students working with several different professors on the Weber State campus. The topics are varied and based on the student's interest or task for a specific assignment. These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management University Archives All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Lonnie Chambers Barker, an oral history by Karla Chambers, 13 July 1980, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Lonnie Chambers Barker (b. 1955.) It was conducted in the family home on July 13, 1980. The interviewer is Karla Chambers. In this interview, Lonnie discusses her recollections and experiences growing up in a large Mormon family. KC: This is Karla Chambers. I am interviewing Lonnie Chambers Barker on July 13, 1980, at 2660 North 450 East in North Ogden. We are going to discuss some memories of being raised in a large family. I appreciate you being here, Lonnie. Would you please tell me your given name, and where and when you were born? LC: Lonnie Chambers. I was born at Saint Benedict's Hospital in Ogden on May 21, 1955. KC: Who are your parents and what can you tell me about them? LC: Marva and Lionel Chambers. With dad, the first thing that represents him in my mind is an old car, a Comet that he's driven for years and years. Everyone makes fun of it. It's not working right now, but he hangs onto it. It's blocking their beautiful new garage. I remember when we were buying the cars. He wanted two Cortinas, which were smaller cars. mom begged and begged him to buy this bigger Comet and he finally gave in. Then, when those Cortinas broke down, he took over the Comet as his car. He had a muffler fall off in the middle of the road and he wired it up and it was good for another year. With mom, I remember our girls’ days that we would have once a year. All the girls would get together and go to Salt Lake on a shopping spree or go to a 1 movie. We would usually eat and see a movie and go shopping in one of the malls. It was our big splurge of the year. KC: How many brothers and sisters were in your family and where do you fit in? LC: There's six brothers and four sisters and I'm right in the middle—five older and five younger. KC: Can you tell me something about each one? LC: Linda's the oldest. Mom wanted a girl right after Linda so that they would be sisters like mom and her sister were. She had four boys before she got her sister. That made it hard on Linda and me. We weren't that close, but we did have fun. I remember taking Linda's shaver and makeup and using them because mom always thought that we were too young to be doing things like that when everybody else had been doing it for a year or two before us. Craig is special to me because I was born on his birthday. I remember Craig being introduced as my twin brother who was born several years later. Randy was popular in school, which was so different from Craig. He was more outgoing. He had a lot more friends and he'd bring his friends home. At that time, I was in junior high and boy crazy. My girlfriends would always be at my house, too, just to see Randy and his buddies that he would bring by. Gary was quiet until he got mad at one of us, and then he would really let us know what he thought. He had quite a temper. But those three were the worst on us little ones because they were the toughest. Reed, the next one, was a lot sweeter and nicer to us but wasn't quite as tall and big as the rest of them. I remember once when Gary, Randy, and Craig were supposed to be watching 2 Reed, Lori, and me. We must have done something to get them mad at us or else they were tired of watching us, but they put us all in my bedroom and then tied a rope around the doorknob and tied it to the railing so that we couldn't get out. We screamed and yelled and pounded. They just went out and played basketball, or whatever, and kept us in the room. It was too far to jump, but we got thinking we would tie the sheets together and climb down and get out. Then we thought mom would be home pretty soon, so we would just throw everything out the window that we could. We ended up throwing sheets and blankets. It was my bedroom and I wouldn't let them throw too much stuff out. But they got in trouble when mom got home. Reed was always the helpful brother and understanding, trying to solve everybody's problems, too. He was a nice older brother, too, I never did get really close to him until high school when I was a sophomore and he was a senior. He was so helpful in getting me started in high school. He helped me find my classes and would always talk to me in the hall where other brothers and sisters would hardly notice each other. Lori is supposed to be a year behind me in school, but we are eighteen months apart. I remember her starting kindergarten and they didn't think she was old enough, so they had a special test given to her by the principal, Mr. Fietkau. For some reason, mom had me take her over to the school. He took us into a room and we were so little then and those desks were so big. I remember climbing up into that desk and feeling so big and important and my feet didn't even touch the floor. He gave Lori a test—he had her draw circles and squares 3 and different things like that to see if she was, I guess, coordinated enough to start kindergarten. She wouldn't do hardly anything that he asked her to— wouldn't even take the pencil, I don't think. So he said that she wasn't ready to start kindergarten. Mom asked Lori why she hadn't done anything because Lori could draw stick figures and make them a lot prettier and that. Lori said that she didn't like the way that he drew them and so she wasn't going to draw any of his ugly pictures. I remember Rodney in his high school years was just like Kelly is now—a very hard brother to get along with. He thought he knew everything. Then he went on his mission and when he came home there was a complete change. It was unreal. So I'm looking forward to Kelly going on his. While Rodney was on his mission, he remembered each one of our anniversaries and our birthdays. I remember how much it meant to our boy, Jason, when Rodney sent him a birthday card. How fun it was to get a letter in the mail from his uncle that he didn't even know. Lorraine was older, but it seems she's always apologizing for everything if we get upset with her. But now that we're married, you get closer, I think. I remember Lori and I would be responsible to get Lorraine into bed with us at night—the three of us slept in a double bed. Lorraine would fool around and tickle us, she must have been only two or three years old and we'd get so upset with her. We wanted to go to sleep and we'd finally get so upset with her that we'd walk slowly to the door and then we'd hurry and turn the light off and slam the door shut. Lorraine would be in there and she couldn't reach the light and she'd 4 be crying and crying to get out, and then we'd finally open the door. She'd hug me and stay so close and go right to sleep. We did that quite a bit to get her to sleep, and I feel bad that we did. I hope she's not scared of the dark because we did that to her. With Lorraine, it's funny to see the difference that school and things made. She dates many different kids. She is popular with the fellows, too. Then there is Kelly. I can remember him being little. He's really good with the nieces and nephews right now, and yet he's so obnoxious and mean, too. You can't see how they all like him so well. LeeAnn is the baby of the family. I was old enough when she was born to remember coming down to breakfast one morning and Dad told us that Mom was going to the hospital. I didn't know why she was going or anything. It was strange that he fixed breakfast that morning for us and got us off to school. I remember him loading the youngest kids into the car and taking us somewhere. The next thing I remember is driving back home and looking over in the front seat. Mom was holding this new baby and I was wondering where it came from and what it was doing with us. It was LeeAnn. KC: What do you remember about your early childhood or your school years? LC: I think it was in second grade and there was a fellow that fell from the banister down to the next floor. He broke his front teeth and had to have some silver caps put on. He talked with a whistling sound after that. I remember the ambulance coming and all the kids watching out of the school window. They said afterwards that that his older brother had pushed him over, but we never did know what happened. When he came back to school, he was quite a slow learner and always getting in trouble with the teachers. I felt sorry for him one day at school 5 and I told him I would help him with his homework, but he'd have to help, too. So I think I gave him my papers to copy because the teacher told him he couldn't go home until all of his homework or assignments were in that day. The whole day he just sat with his feet up and just really didn't try at all. I told him I'd help him. I remember looking at a paper that he had done and thinking what a sloppy writer he was and that I'd have to write the worst that I ever could. I wrote really sloppy and the teacher never did say anything. He was able to go home. I remember that more than anything. I remember all of us kids got to eat lunch for free over at the elementary. We got special tickets and we didn't know why. Later, we were told it was because there were so many of us and they thought they were helping mom and dad out, I guess. We lived only a little ways from the school. It was always so much funner to eat over at the school than to bring a lunch or go home. I remember on our birthdays mom would always make sure that she made something special. We could come home the last ten minutes of lunch and pick it up and take it over so we could give it to our class as a treat. A lot of other mothers would just send hard candy or something, but because we lived so close, we could run home and she would have some cupcakes or something ready for us to take back. KC: I bet it would be interesting to be in a large family around mealtime. What do you remember about that? LC: We had a big bench along one wall and then four or five chairs along the other side for the adults. That was kind of fun. They had to have that big table in the 6 kitchen to feed all of us. I remember we would throw the rolls around the table instead of passing them around. That's the biggest thing I remember. That started from one of the guys and carried on for a long time. KC: What about chores? LC: Saturdays were when we were supposed to get everything done. My main responsibility was to do the bathrooms. Mom and dad hardly ever went in the one upstairs. So I'd get mom's done, say to heck with it, and leave the upstairs until they found out how dirty it was. Gary had the job of cleaning the freezer and the fridge every Saturday and he'd get a quarter every time he did it. When he got older and it became my job, I never did get any money for doing it. KC: What do you remember about family activities? LC: In summer, we'd go camping a lot, two or three times at least. We'd have to take two tents. We'd have one for the boys and then the girls would sleep with mom and dad. As the family grew older, we could leave mom and dad in their tent and then go into our own tent by ourselves, and that was fun. I remember my favorite spot was up at Tony Grove Lake because it's so pretty up there. All of us girls went up to get the campsite early and then dad would come up with the boys after work that evening. We decided we'd surprise them and have the tents put up. I remember helping Lorraine and Lori try to put the boys’ tent up. It was like a circus tent. I remember putting Lorraine and Lori in the middle to hold it up while I was pulling out the sides. I heard a motorcycle coming. I had seen this kid driving around on his motorcycle before. I didn't want him to think we didn't know what 7 we were doing, so I hurried and pushed them down when I heard it coming around the circle there. They came out screaming and yelling and he went by. KC: Are there any other family activities that were especially memorable? LC: The ball games. We were always going to somebody’s ball games. The guys played a lot of sports. It rubbed off on us girls, too, but all we really had was church softball games. They didn't have city leagues until my senior year of high school. When they finally had it, I got a team together and had Craig coach us. I can only remember playing one game. I can't remember the guys' ball games, either. KC: You would play as a family, though, wouldn't you? LC: We'd get together on Sundays and go over to the school and have our own little game. A lot of times we would challenge the Ellis family up the street to meet us over there, because they had about nine kids, but I think they were mostly girls. I think they only had two boys. It was always fun to have mom there because she always did crazy things, but yet be so happy that it would make everything worthwhile to see her. Then we played a lot of volleyball together, which was fun. KC: What do you remember about holidays? LC: Before dad's mother died, Thanksgiving was always at her house. She had a really large living room and she had three or four tables put up. Our family had half of the people there. I think she had twenty-two grandchildren and we had half of them. She always put out her best china and her best crystal. I remember thinking how fancy it was when we were holding those big goblets and drinking our punch out of them on Thanksgiving. We would also meet for Christmas Eve 8 at Grandma Chambers'. On Thanksgiving we'd draw names. The cousins would each draw a name and then we'd exchange our gifts. Then we’d watch the parents open "don't want" presents for the names they drew. We were so thrilled with the stuff that they were getting most the time and really it was just junk. The other uncles and aunts, when they'd open theirs, they'd keep having us come over and they'd say, "Well, here, you can take this home." Mom and dad would say, "Stay away, stay away!" Grandma Chambers always had her checkerboard cake on Thanksgiving, too, which was a white, pink, and chocolate cake. She put it right in the middle for a centerpiece. KC: What are some of the tragedies that you remember? LC: A tragedy for me was when Gary dropped a saw on my knee when he was trying to get it down off a shelf. It slid out of his hand and came down and sliced just an inch, or maybe it wasn’t even that big. But it was big enough to have to have stitches. I knew our family doctor, but it scared me because we never had to go to the doctor at all. We went to the dentist a lot, but we never had regular checkups with our doctor, unless it was for camp or something. I was only ten or eleven and I remember mom saying that after she got through with her piano lessons she'd take me to the doctor’s and get stitches. I was scared to death. I just cried and cried and cried because I didn't really know what stitches were, and didn't know what to expect at the doctor’s. Then we got out there and found out they weren't all that bad, but I sure was scared. Our family didn't have too many tragedies. 9 KC: What are your happiest memories? When you think of a happy time growing up, what was it? LC: We always had things to do and we always had a lot of fun. We didn't have a lot of free time while we were growing up. And our friends—some of the ones we had in school—weren't always close enough that we could walk to their houses. But we always had each other. I think my funnest and happiest times would be when we'd go to Lagoon and places like that as a whole family. We would spend the day and take it easy and have a fun time. The Deseret News used to have a drawing contest. I was the one that was in the age bracket to enter it, so mom would cut the picture out and I'd color it. Then she'd say, "We need to do more to it." She'd show me how we could put lace around it or border it somehow. Then we'd send it in. One year, I was boss of Lagoon for a day, so I got to take the whole family down there and we rode the whole day for free. Mom had to bring a picture to prove all eleven were one family. There were quite a few who didn't believe her and she'd pull out the picture to show them. We probably made them go bankrupt that year, because other years they'd just send five dollars’ worth of free tickets or something. KC: What would you say is the hardest part of being in a large family? LC: I thought I was picked on because I didn't have the fancy things that my girlfriends had. I remember a girlfriend—she was an only child for about eight years and we were in the same ward. It seemed like every Sunday she'd have a different purse. I envied her because she had a purse all the time. Then she'd always bring little cans of dried fruit that were bought in a store and little pieces of 10 all different kinds of sweets. We'd cough so that we could slip some in our mouth during the meetings. I always thought how lucky it would be to be in her shoes and have all these purses and things. At Easter she'd always have a little bonnet. KC: What do you think is the nicest part of being raised in a large family? LC: The closeness we had as a family. I wouldn't have traded places with my girlfriends, who maybe didn’t know how important brothers and sisters were. There was always someone there to help you or someone that you could talk into doing your turn at the dishes. Being able to brag them up all the time, too, was fun. One thing I remember at school—at elementary, especially—was when a new person would come, the first thing I'd ask them is "How many children do you have in your family?" They'd say, "Two or three?" and I'd say, "There's eleven of us." They'd say, "Really?" KC: Just out of curiosity, how many children would you like to have? LC: I want to have a big family. I'd like my kids to have a lot of brothers and sisters to grow up with in the same way we did. Maybe we won’t have the luxuries and the things that take away from having another child, but I think that having friendship is more important. We're a lot closer, especially Lori and I, since we're married and can talk more than we ever have been in our lives growing up. Our kids are about the same, too, for some reason. They're starting out at the same ages. I'm closer to mom, too. I can talk to her more easily than anytime that I was growing up. KC: Thank you, Lonnie. 11