Oral History Program Wilma Grose Interviewed by Harold C. Bateman 7 October 1974 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Wilma Grose Interviewed by Harold C. Bateman Emeritus Professor of History 7 October 1974 Copyright © 2012 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Weber State College Oral History Program was created in the early 1970s to “record and document, through personal reminiscences, the history, growth and development of Weber State College.” Through interviews with administrators, faculty and students, the program’s goal was to expand the documentary holdings on Weber State College and its predecessor entities. From 1970 to 1976, the program conducted some fifteen interviews, under the direction of, and generally conducted by Harold C. Bateman, an emeritus professor of history. In 1979, under the direction of archivist John Sillito, the program was reestablished and six interviews were conducted between 1979 and 1983. Additional interviews were conducted by members of the Weber State community. ___________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Wilma Grose, interviewed by Harold C. Bateman, 7 October 1974, Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Ogden, Utah. Note: Although the interview with Wilma Grose took place in 1974, editing did not begin until early 1985. Thus, much time elapsed between the interview and the time when Miss Grose received the typescript of the interview. The editor, therefore, has made bracketed comments at those places where Miss Grose has made significant or lengthy additions to the original. On the other hand, where she has made only short additions, nothing has been inserted into the transcript since this would have disrupted the flow of the interview. In addition to these notes, the editor has used brackets within the transcript to enclose words or phrases which make the reading smoother but which were not part of the conversation. iv Wilma Grose 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Wilma Grose (born 1911). Ms. Grose served in several capacities in the library from 1939 to 1975. The interview was conducted October 7, 1974 by Harold C. Bateman in order to gather Ms. Grose’s recollections and experiences as student (1930), Reference Librarian (1939), Head Librarian (1953), and Head of Cataloging (1960) at Weber State College. HB: Wilma, I believe you attended Weber College from 1930 to 1931, did you not? Would you tell some of your experiences and some of your impressions of the college at that time? WG: Well, of course, the college was rather small at that time; we only had a student body of about eight or nine hundred. We were a junior college. These were the ending years of the period when the school belonged to the L.D.S. Church system. I think two years following my graduation, 1933, was the first year that the college became a state institution. We were small, but a very select group. We had an outstanding faculty, a faculty that certainly had a great influence on my future life. HB: Who was the president at the time? WG: President Aaron W. Tracy. HB: Could you name some of the faculty members who were here? WG: Let's see. There was Brother John Q. Blaylock who was our history teacher. Russell Croft hired for biology, Clarisse Hall was the registrar and Eva Browning was the librarian. Leland Monson was in English, Anna Stark was one of the 2 education teachers, Lydia Tanner taught foods and was in charge of the cafeteria. Marian Read [taught] English, Charles Osmond, physics, Ralph Gray, chemistry, and Guy Hurst, business. HB: Merlon Stevenson? WG: Merlon Stevenson was here in athletics and math. HB: What do you think of the students then compared to the students now, as far as their seriousness was concerned? WG: I think they were much more serious. They were here for a very definite reason. Since this was in the height of the depression, students really had to work hard to get enough money to earn tuition, so there wasn't very much fooling around. HB: Could you give us a brief description of the physical plant at that time? WG: The school consisted of the Moench Building which contained most of the classes, and there was the gymnasium which housed all of the gym classes and the administrative offices except the registrar's office which was in the Moench Building. HB: At that time, the Weber College campus was on 25th Street just above Washington, wasn't it? WG: It was on Jefferson between 24th and 25th streets. HB: Oh, they hadn't bought those buildings facing the south on 25th Street? WG: Only the gymnasium. They did have one or two buildings on Jefferson on either side of the Moench Building which they used as dormitories for students, and several on 24th Street. HB: What were your early impressions of the library at Weber College? 3 WG: The library consisted of one room actually, upstairs, which later became the reference room when I became reference librarian. Miss Browning's desk was in front of a little alcove, and what books the library held were shelved in this alcove. HB: Was that in the Moench Building? WG: Yes, the second floor of the Moench Building. But, of course, it wasn't long before she started expanding into other parts of the Moench Building. HB: I guess the number of books then was of course modest. WG: Yes, I have no idea how many books were in the library at that time, but I know that the students were well satisfied with the service that they were given. Miss Browning was very competent, and our needs were certainly met by her. She started with one to two hundred books, mostly donated, and by the time she retired she had built it into one of the best junior college libraries in the West. HB: From what you've said in the past, she sure was interested in the welfare of the students as well as the faculty. WG: Yes, she was. She was certainly instrumental in getting many students to come to college. As I said, this was during the Depression, and it was really hard for students to get the money together. Miss Browning persuaded many students to come to college, traveling all around—even up into Idaho—in the summers, and she did everything she could to keep them here, helping them get jobs. Of course, we had a National Youth Administration work-study program then, too, and so she was able to help students stay in school by giving them so many hours of work a week. 4 HB: When you were a student at Weber did you know you were going into library science? WG: Well, not really. I had always been interested in books, and I had spent some time as a student assistant in the Carnegie Library. At that time, Dorothy Wheelwright was the librarian, and she would have students come down and work shelving books and waiting at the circulation desk without pay. My ultimate ambition at that time, I guess, was to become librarian, but I felt that that time was far away in the future. I felt that I had to get into an area where I was sure of getting a job, so I went into education. But I've always been interested in books and reading. HB: Did you work at the Carnegie Library at the time you were a student at Weber? WG: No, I worked in the registrar's office. A very good friend of mine, Joan W. Emmett, a friend of Mrs. Hall, was instrumental in getting me a job working in the registrar's office. But I worked at the Carnegie Library mostly when I was a senior in high school, and then after I graduated from Weber I worked at the Carnegie on the extra board. HB: Was Miss Hyde, Mrs. Hall's sister, head of the registrar's office? WG: Not when I was there. That was before. Mrs. Hall was the registrar. I forget how many hours a week I worked, in my free time and on Saturday mornings. Sometimes I recorded grades. I think Mrs. Hall came in 1926; I was here during 1930-1931. I graduated from Weber in five quarters, so I didn't start until January 1930. HB: You graduated from Weber in 1931? 5 WG: June 1931. HB: Then after graduating from Weber, you took extension work at the University of Utah. WG: I was unable to go on to the University, so I took correspondence and extension work from there for the next three years, for a year's credit in university work. And then I went to the university in September of 1934 for my senior year and graduated the following June. HB: You received your major there in elementary education? WG: Yes. HB: After you received your Bachelor of Science degree from the university, you worked six weeks under Superintendent Karl Hopkins of Ogden didn't you? WG: Yes, I was an assistant in the first grade under Sadie Irene Divine. Then Dr. Nuttall, who was then superintendent of Salt Lake City Schools, contacted me and offered me the position of librarian in the Salt Lake City Schools. HB: You were in the Salt Lake City Schools how long? WG: For four years. HB: You taught language and spelling one year and then you were a librarian at West High School your second year? WG: The first year, I was librarian at the Liberty Elementary School where I also taught the one class in language and spelling. And the next year, I went to West High to substitute for the librarian who was on leave. Then the following two years I was the librarian at Bryant Junior High School, and that was where Miss Browning found me. 6 HB: Miss Browning contacted the University of Utah placement service, Mr. Carlson I believe, and he highly recommended you for the position, I understand. WG: Yes. During the year that I worked at the university, I worked in the library, in the reserve room mostly, and Mr. Carlson was aware of my work at the university and was also aware of the fact that I had worked on and off on a temporary basis under the N.Y. A. program at the Carnegie Library during the three years that I was out of school. When Miss Browning saw my name, she remembered me as a student here at Weber, and she got in touch with me at Bryant. HB: And you became assistant librarian at Weber in September 1939, is that right? WG: Well, actually my title was reference librarian. HB: In 1940, I believe, you entered the University of Denver to study library science? WG: I had already had one summer of work at Denver in 1939 when I came to Weber, and of course I came with the understanding that I would complete my degree and get my library science degree, which I did in the summer of 1941. HB: You have two Bachelor of Science degrees, haven't you? WG: Yes. Actually at that time, the Bachelor of Science in library science was a fifth year degree. It was later made a master's degree. HB: Then you went to the University of Southern California and entered the graduate school. What degree did you receive there? WG: I got the master's degree in secondary education. Again, I felt that my best training should be in education since I was working so constantly with teachers. At that time, it was recommended that librarians go into a subject field rather than a doctorate in library science unless you intended to teach it. 7 HB: Let's see, you graduated from the University of Southern California in the summer of 1952, did you not? WG: That's right. HB: Was Eva the first trained librarian at Weber? WG: Yes, she was. Of course when she became librarian, she didn't have her degree, but she got busy as soon as she was able to take leave and got her bachelor's degree from B.Y.U. She also took advanced work at Columbia, the University of Chicago and the University of Oregon. She accumulated enough credits in library science to have the equivalent of a master's degree. HB: You were the second fully trained librarian at Weber? WG: That's right. HB: Would you mind reviewing some of the history from 1939 to 1954 with respect to the approximate number of books? WG: I have no idea how many there were as I never helped with the inventory. We have the accession records which give the number, but I think we had about forty thousand volumes in the library. Of course that was according to the inventory records. There might have been some missing books, so I don't have any idea. HB: Let's see, was this the period that the library was on the lower campus? When was the move made to the new campus? Was it in 1954? WG: Summer of 1954, yes. HB: You might give us a little information concerning the growth of the library area while you were working with Miss Browning. 8 WG: When I came back to work in the library, it had expanded beyond the one room, which was the reference library, and as I remember Miss Browning's office was adjoining the large reading room. [Miss Grose added considerable detail to this section, clarifying her taped description. The following two paragraphs include these changes.] This room was later used to house the books which originally were located behind Miss Browning's desk in the reading room. Still later Miss Browning took a room west of the stacks, which was called the Green Room by the theatrical people, and made that her office. Then the northwest room from the reference department was acquired and made a periodical room as well as a study room. As the library continued to grow, Eva moved the book collection downstairs in the area which used to be the cafeteria, and she made the adjoining room to the east, the dining room, her office. The stack area upstairs was made into a group study room and her old office housed the hour reserve books. The room downstairs across from the stack area (north) which had been Miss Marian Read's classroom was finally acquired to house the children's literature collection. Miss Read had sole access to this collection, and she taught her classes in children's literature in this room. And this was the final arrangement until we moved up to the new campus. Before Miss Browning went to President Dixon with her request for more space, she had her plans well drawn and all the necessary statistics to justify her need. She was a wonderful organizer and was always most persuasive in her 9 requests. President Dixon knew her well enough to know that her needs were legitimate. HB: How many employees were there in the library, just you and Eva, plus some students? WG: When I first came, Ruth Ames and Arenis Wright were both working full time. They had been student assistants of Miss Browning's, and she had trained them in library procedure. And then there were also student assistants beyond that. HB: Was Weber fully accredited in 1939? WG: Oh yes. I think they were accredited in 1932 by the Northwest Association. Yes, Weber has always been highly rated. HB: What would you say about the budget during the time you have been at the college? WG: I have no idea what it was when I first started to work. I think our book budget, as far as I remember, was no more than a few hundred dollars a year. Possibly. I'm sure before the period of time I took over, it was not more than $4,000. I don't know about the periodical budget; I imagine it was around $1,000. And the binding budget was about the same amount. For many years Eva just had a few hundred dollars to buy books so she had to select very carefully. HB: How did you select your books during those early years, and also magazines and newspapers? WG: Well, Miss Browning worked very closely with the faculty asking their recommendations for books that they needed for their classes. Through Miss Browning's studies in library science, she was made aware of basic materials 10 that were needed for a junior college library. So it was a joint effort between Miss Browning and the faculty. HB: Yes, Well, I think it's always been cooperative while I've been associated with Weber State College. WG: Miss Browning always had good rapport with the faculty and the students. There was always a very friendly atmosphere. People respected her and admired her, and I think that the library had a reputation for being a friendly place. HB: Did the American Library Association provide any guidelines at all? WG: Yes, they set up standards for the number of books in the different areas. HB: When was that organization founded, do you know? WG: No, I don't know. It was in the nineteenth century. I don't remember the exact time. HB: What would you say concerning the use of the library during your early tenure at Weber? WG: The library was always well used; it seemed like the reading rooms were always full. The faculty seemed to come often, because they were made to feel welcome and they got good help from Miss Browning. HB: I remember that you used to get out a data list of the books used by the faculty members while you were librarian, and I thought that would help in stimulating instructors to see that their students used the library to a great degree. I guess Eva used that? WG: Yes. There was a period of time, during World War II, when the library wasn't used too much. I don't know if it was a sign of the times or not. The 11 administration was quite concerned that the books that were being ordered weren't being used by the faculty and students. President Dixon, and President Miller later, used to ask us to make monthly reports to show the use and the circulation of books in the library, to try to stimulate more use of the books. HB: Then that was an institutional policy, getting out that data to the teachers? WG: That's right. HB: You became director of the libraries in 1954, I believe? WG: Yes. Miss Browning was forced to resign in April 19541 due to her health, so I was appointed head librarian. Miss Browning continued to work in the library for several years as the catalog librarian. HB: Do you remember the approximate number of books in the library at that time? WG: No, I don't. It seemed like a whole lot when we moved up to the new campus. HB: Yes, quite a few had to be moved. You've said that Weber's always been fully accredited during your stay at Weber. What do you say about the budget during the time you were the director of libraries? WG: Well, the budget didn't increase too much. Once in a while, if there was an extra thousand dollars toward the end of the school year, Dr. Foulger would notify us of that. We always had a list of books ready to be ordered; but our book budget remained basically about fifty-five hundred dollars annually. HB: You were director of libraries from 1954 to 1961, weren't you? 1 Although during the taped interview, Miss Grose said the year was 1954, she corrected the date to 1953 in reviewing the transcript. As Dr. Henry Aldous Dixon, who appointed Miss Grose head librarian, left Weber College for Utah State Agricultural College in the summer of 1953, it is evident she received this appointment in 1953. 12 WG: Actually, it was July 1960 when Mr. Tolman came. As we became a four-year college, I didn't want the responsibility and I didn't want a twelve-month contract. They had new jobs, because of the new building in the offing and so I asked to be relieved of that responsibility and to become head of the cataloging department. HB: Were many books donated to Weber to your knowledge? WG: Oh, yes. We've always had books given to us. Our faculty had been generous in donating books to the library, and we've had townspeople contribute books over the years. Of course, our greatest contribution was Judge Howell's library of over ten thousand volumes, which was given to us in October 1954 right after we moved to the new campus. We knew we were going to get the collection because it was in his will, so when he passed away in the fall of 1954, we obtained the books. HB: What would you say concerning the quality of the books that were donated by Judge Howell? WG: It's an outstanding collection. It was a literary collection. His purpose was to collect outstanding English and American authors up to the 1900s. (The only exception was Pearl Buck from a later period.) This was his hobby so when he would go on vacation, he would go to the secondhand bookstores and pick up books. He went about it in a very systematic way; he certainly knew his authors and did his best to collect the complete works of these authors. Weber received his literary collection and the University of Utah received his law library. I asked Judge Howell if he'd ever had his collection appraised, and he said no, but he felt 13 that the books would be valued in the neighborhood of forty thousand dollars. Of course since then, we know that it's worth many times greater than that because there are many rare and out of print books. HB: You obtained it right after you became the director of libraries? WG: Yes, it was kind of a bad time, because we just had the four classroom buildings up at the new campus, so our library space was very limited. (The library was housed in the north end of the second floor of building four.) It presented a problem to house the collection. Finally, a classroom was given to us, and we stored the books in that area until we were able to catalog them. HB: How long were you a member of the administrative council? WG: During the time that I was head librarian, from 1953 to 1960. In June 1960 I stepped down. HB: I wonder if you'd give a statement concerning President Tracy and his contributions to the college and anything else you'd like to say about him. WG: I think President Tracy was a true scholar. He was a dreamer, but certainly many of the things that came true as far as Weber's future was concerned had their beginnings under President Tracy's term of office. We used to have daily devotionals, and he would stand before us and dream about Weber's expansion. Way back when I was a student, he forecast a time when Weber would become a four-year college. He felt very strongly about Weber's future. HB: At that time, the college was under the church, I guess. WG: That's right. 14 HB: I didn't gather that President Tracy was much of a politician; if he was, he was certainly a straight forward politician. WG: Yes. He antagonized a lot of businessmen in the community because he did speak his mind. As a result, he didn't have the support of the community like, for instance, President Dixon had. I feel that President Tracy made a real contribution to Weber. During those times, during the time of transition, the last year or so that Weber was a church school, things were very precarious, and I think it's through President Tracy's efforts that he kept the school open. Things were pretty serious, even at the time when I was a student although I didn't realize then how serious things were. HB: I've heard talk about the politics that apparently occurred at that time, but I think everyone with whom I have conferred was favorable with President Tracy, even though they disagreed with him on some areas, and I think your evaluation of him, from what I know about the man was very, very fair. WG: I think Weber had been very fortunate in having the type of president that was needed at the time. I think that President Tracy built the library. As I say, he was a scholar, and many of the reference books that we still have in our collection were purchases when he was attending the University of Chicago. He would send them back to the library, and Miss Browning would catalog them. He sent many complete sets of authors' works. HB: They've had a long, enduring value then. 15 WG: He was very library-minded. Of course, he was an English major and so he had a good understanding of some of the basic materials, so I think that he certainly made a real contribution to Weber. HB: When did he leave Weber, about the time that the college went to the state? WG: Yes, I think it was between 1933 and 1935. President Dixon came back in 1937 and the two years prior to that, Dr. Creer was president, so it must have been 1935 that President Tracy left. HB: I sort of wondered in my own mind whether President Tracy would have liked to stay at Weber. I think some of those things are a little sensitive, and I wondered if politics had anything to do with his leaving. WG: It could be. I think there was controversy there, although of course I don't know. It was only hearsay. (He would have liked to come back as an English teacher.) HB: You're not taking sides, either. WG: As far as I'm concerned, President Tracy was a fine president, and I had a deep respect for him. HB: Then President Creer came in about the time that Weber was turned over to the state? WG: Yes. That was during the period of time after I graduated and before I came back to work. He was here for the two-year period 1935-1936 to 1936-1937 after Weber became a state school. Then he went to the University of Utah where he was the history department chairman. HB: Did the administrative council exist under President Tracy or was that created under President Creer? 16 WG: That I don't know, of course. I'm sure they must have had some sort of administrative body but what it was and how it functioned I don't know. HB: What do you think President Creer's contributions were to the college? WG: I really don't know. I haven't heard too much about his administration. HB: President Dixon had been president of the college, and he came back in 1937. WG: Yes, I think he was president between 1919 and 1920, in that period. HB: What would be your evaluation of President Dixon? I believe you worked with him rather closely. WG: Yes, I think again President Dixon made a great contribution to the college. It was through his efforts that we moved up to the new campus. He certainly worked hard to get Weber on a four-year basis, and he did a lot of organizing. President Dixon worked well with the businessmen of the community. He introduced a lot of worthwhile projects on campus. The students and the faculty respected him; he was a very friendly person and knew every student's name on campus. We used to call us the great Weber family. We had some fun times together. We were small enough so that we knew and enjoyed everybody. It was a nice period of time. HB: I thought he was a very outstanding person. He sure seemed to love to visit with people and particularly with students. I guess it was President Miller who appointed you director of libraries? WG: No, actually, it was by President Dixon just before he left. Eva resigned in April, and President Dixon left the end of that school year. 17 HB: Well, President Dixon was, I thought, a very splendid, wonderful man. Could you give your evaluation of President Miller? WG: Again, I had a deep respect for President Miller. He was a very conscientious person, a very sincere, dedicated person, and it seemed that he was the right type of president to come as we moved toward four-year status and moved up to the new campus. He was certainly well liked and respected by the faculty. Of course, by that time, the student body was getting larger, and the demands on his time were such that he wasn't able to circulate on campus as much as President Dixon used to, so I don't know that he knew as many students, but he was every bit as interested in them. [Miss Grose added the following later.] One of his outstanding contributions was acquiring all the adjacent property around campus for future expansion. He was very far sighted. HB: His health wasn't too good during the last few years of his administration. I don't know how he was earlier, but he certainly had some very serious problems. I think you've already mentioned some of the people in the library who have excelled. We ought to at least mention Joseph L. Bishop who is the current president of Weber State College. I guess he's interested in maintaining the budget we've had under the administration of President Miller? WG: Yes. Our budget is about the same. We've been lucky these last several years in getting some government money over and above the average appropriation for books. Of course, that source has now dried up, so we're back to about ninety thousand dollars, I think, for books; and I'm not sure what the periodical budget 18 is, but it's increased considerably. But as we became a four-year college, it was necessary to pick up periodicals and books that weren't needed as a junior college. The administration has tried to get us all the money that they can to build our collection to where it should be. We should have around 350,000 volumes. And we're in the neighborhood of around 200,000 volumes now. [Miss Grose later added.] We had a very good book collection for a junior college—one of the best in the west, but it was inadequate for a senior college. HB: I guess we ought to say a word about the new campus after the move from 25th Street and Jefferson. I guess you and Eva organized the library on the top floor of the science building, didn't you? WG: I didn't have anything to do with the organization. Eva planned the library and organized the move. As ill as she was, she drew the plans not once, but many times because in order to get the whole campus up here, it was necessary to consolidate space, and so she finally ended up with half a floor on the second floor of building four. And I know that Mr. Lawrence Olpin who was the architect at that time said that he had never seen such comprehensive plans drawn by a layman as were drawn by Miss Browning, so there was a very useful arrangement, from the librarian's point of view. The interrelationship of the rooms was outstanding. It was a very easy library to manage and organize. Miss Browning drew the plans, and she was also responsible for planning the move. She was very interested in the library and certainly gave me all the help and support I needed in order to get things moving up here. 19 HB: I've heard you comment on this so many times so favorably. Would you mind giving us a physical arrangement of the library at that time after the move? WG: Well, as I said, we were on the north end of the second floor and the library consisted of a reference room on the east side of the area, and a group study room on the west side, and in between, the hallway. As you came to the end of the hall, you opened into the lobby area, which contained our card catalog and the circulation desk. In back of the circulation desk was the stack area, and to one side on the east was the librarian's office and the cataloger's office. And in the very back, we had a little work area. Actually we didn't have any more floor space than we did down in the Moench Building except that it was compactly arranged on one floor, not scattered throughout the building. HB: I remember it being very close and well planned and well organized. WG: It was very well planned, from a librarian's point of view, not from an architect's point of view. HB: It was sort of a temporary arrangement, wasn't it? WG: Yes, it was. But we stayed there from 1954 until 1964 when the library building was completed. HB: Who helped with the planning of this building, this new-library building? WG: Before I stepped down, I wrote the prospectus for the new building, indicating the philosophy of the library, the needs in terms of interrelationship of departments, square footage and specifications and so forth. And then Mr. James Tolman, who succeeded me as head librarian, worked very closely with the architects in 20 planning the actual building, and the staff was consulted by Mr. Tolman and the architects in drawing up the final plans. HB: When was this building completed? WG: We moved in the summer of 1965. HB: I wonder if you'd describe the physical arrangement of the new library building. WG: The library had a basement, but we weren't entitled to use very much of it, because of the lack of space. The education department was housed in the basement, but we did have area for the documents collection and for the curriculum library. And on the main floor was the head librarian's office, and when we first moved in, we had the card catalogs in the main lobby downstairs. The circulation desk now is on the main floor, on the north side, and then immediately in back of the circulation desk is the technical services area which includes not only cataloging but the acquisitions department, and that's where my office is. Then on the south side of the lobby are the periodicals and documents area. Originally that was the reference room when we first moved to the building, but the reference collection was later moved upstairs to the second floor. And the reserve book room was originally adjoining the room that was the reference room on the main floor, but they have been moved down into the basement. On the second floor, we have the stack area and the young people's collection and the special collections: special books, locked case, and Judge Howell's library are there as well as the porcelain collection and the Becraft collection. The card catalog is now housed up on the second floor also. 21 HB: What do you feel were your basic contributions to the library during your directorship? WG: Well, I don't know that I made any real contributions. I tried very hard to maintain the standards and the ideals that Miss Browning had set up as far as working relationships with the faculty and the students. We did change our system of circulating books. We had a closed stack area during the time we were in the Moench Building and in building four.2 By closed stacks, I mean that the students were required to get the call number from the card catalog and ask for the books, although faculty and students were allowed to go through the stacks and browse whenever they had a definite purpose. Later we instituted the open stack procedure. But I guess, during the period of time when I was head librarian, I was instrumental in continuing to build the library, aiming toward the time when we would become a four-year college. Plans were definitely going ahead toward that day, so I was constantly meeting with the curriculum committee planning for the courses that would be offered by the four-year college, and the library had to try to pick up materials that would be needed at that time. HB: That would probably be one of your greatest contributions, the transition from a junior college library to a senior college library. At present time you're the chief catalog librarian? WG: Yes, head cataloger. HB: What are your duties and what personnel work under you? 2 Miss Grose indicated later that the change from closed stacks to open stacks took place while the library was still in building four. This correction is accurate as she resigned as director before the move from building four to the new library. 22 WG: I'm responsible for seeing that all the books and periodicals are cataloged and the card catalog maintained. Right now we're in the process of reclassifying our collection. We have been under the Dewey decimal classification, but in 1967, it was decided that we should switch to the Library of Congress classification since that's a more expansive system for larger libraries. HB: Who made that decision? WG: Mr. Tolman. He felt if we were ever going to change, that we should change then, while the collection was rather small. WG: You concurred in that? WG: Yes. We felt that it was a good move because it seemed like the Dewey Decimal classification was coming out every three or four years with major changes in the classification schedule which meant that we were constantly reclassifying books and there was a very definite swing toward the Library of Congress classification by all the college and universities of any size in the country. HB: It's a superior system then, isn't it? WG: Yes, it is when you think that the Dewey is divided into nine large classes plus a general class, and the Library of Congress is divided into twenty-six. And there's thus unlimited room for expansion unlike the reclassification of numbers still happening in Dewey. As far as my personnel is concerned, I have Mrs. Stella Chang, who is an outstanding cataloger; she obtained her training from Peabody. Scott Birkinshaw is a good cataloger who obtained his master's degree in library science from BYU. I have two part time catalogers, Mrs. Kay Fillmore, and Mrs. Virginia Herdti, who are both very conscientious. I am sorry to say, we are soon 23 going to lose them. They are both moving out of town. And then I have Ardell Carter who is my right hand man; she's the head of all the clerical personnel. And then we have Clara Andrews who is the head typist; she is supervising all these student typists that we have. Jane McDowell is in charge of filing the catalog cards, and Jane Floto is in charge of processing all the books. I guess that's my staff as it's constituted now. I think we should mention that Craige Hall, who was employed to be a cataloger, has made head librarian, in which capacity he is serving now. I think we have a very good library for its size. Its potential is great. We have a very good staff which will continue to grow under the administration we have now. HB: I surely wish to thank you very much for your contributions. I don't think I know of anybody that's been more professional than you have been. I mention the fact because of your good work. You're the only person in the history of Weber State College who has worked in the library and who was made a full professor. WG: Well, you're very generous, and I want to thank you for your support and cooperation over the years when I was librarian. Of course, you served on my library committee, and I've always appreciated the support and loyalty that you've shown to me. HB: I’ve certainly enjoyed working with you and thank you.