Oral History Program Carol Merrill-Flitton Interviewed by Lorrie Rands 6 August 2024 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Carol Merrill-Flitton Interviewed by Lorrie Rands 6 August 2024 Copyright © 2025 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description Connecting Weber: History of the Cultural Centers oral history project documents the memories and history of the various cultural centers that were open at Weber State University. These centers included the Multicultural Center (later called the Center for Belonging & Cultural Engagement), Women's Center, Native American Cultural Center, Asian American and Pacific Islander Cultural Center, Pan-Asian Cultural Center, Black Cultural Center, and the LGBTQ Resource Center. The centers were closed in July 2024 due to state legislation. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Merrill-Flitton, Carol, an oral history by Lorrie Rands, 6 August 2024, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections and University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Carol Merrill-Flitton, conducted on August 6, 2024 by Lorrie Rands in the Stewart Library. Carol talks about her desire and struggles to obtain an education that ultimately led to her taking a job as the director of the Women’s Center at Weber State University. She also talks about the importance of community and belonging. LR: Okay, today is August 6, 2024. We are in the Stewart Library with Carol MerrillFlitton, doing an oral history interview for the—we don't actually have a title yet for the project, but closing of the culture centers here on campus. My name is Lorrie Rands conducting. Reagan Baird is on the camera. All right, that being said, thank you so much for your willingness to come and share your thoughts and memories about Weber State and the culture centers, specifically the Women's Center. Let's just jump right in with when and where you were born? CMF: Okay, I was born in Torrance, California, and grew up in Lakewood, California. LR: Okay. Torrance is? CMF: Near Compton. It's L.A. area. LR: Okay, and when? CMF: Oh, I have to give my year? This is scary. 1951. LR: Only if you want to. CMF: It's okay. LR: Did you grow up in that area of California? CMF: I grew up, yes, near Long Beach. Lakewood is near Long Beach. Borders Long Beach. LR: All right. What are some of your memories of growing up there? 1 CMF: Oh my gosh. You know, we lived right around the corner from a park, and so most of my childhood was spending probably more time at the park than at home. Even as a little kid, I was five years old, six years old, and I ran away to the park. One time my mom couldn't find me for hours and hours, like seven, eight hours, and it was getting dark. But I had hidden up in a tree in the park because I didn't want anybody to find me. Finally, my brother found me and I had to go home. But Lakewood was a great place to grow up. Neighbors were more than neighbors; they were your friends. The community was beautiful, and I loved it. Loved going to elementary, junior high and high school in Lakewood. LR: Okay. What was your family dynamic like growing up? CMF: Okay, this is where it gets really interesting. I had three sisters and one brother and my mom and dad. My mother never graduated from high school. My father did not go past ninth grade, and I was discouraged all my life. I was told not to ever go to college, that it was a waste of time, it was a waste of money. Just get a job and be honest in what you do. That's the most important thing. Family dynamics, my mother was a good lady, just really a good lady. Didn't really have a relationship with my dad. He was a heavy alcoholic, drug abuser, wife abuser, child abuser. When I said I ran away from home and I spent more time at the park, there were reasons for that, you know? So, it was tough, and my siblings and I, we talk about it a little bit, but we still don't talk about it a lot. We were all surviving. We were just kind of staying in our own spots, trying to do the best that we could, usually spending times at neighbors’ houses and that. 2 I learned a lot about what I didn't want in my life. I so vividly remember being 10 years old and walking down the streets—it was during a time when my father was doing his thing with my mom—and I was scared and thinking, “I'll never, ever marry a man who smokes or drinks or beats his wife.” Not that people that smoke or drink are bad, because a lot of my friends smoke and drink, you know? But for me, that was my safety. I had to find a place that I could feel like somewhere in the future for me will be a safe place. For me, marrying somebody that didn't drink for fear that they would drink too much, and somebody that didn't have anger issues. So, I married somebody that didn't smoke, didn't drink, and was never unkind to his wife, so it's all good. LR: Okay. You said you really enjoyed your education up through high school. Was there ever a time during that time that you felt like or was encouraged outside of the home to get an education? CMF: I was never encouraged outside my home. I always dreamt of going to college. That was my dream, but I always felt it was for somebody else, that it wasn't for me. I wanted it, and there was one point in time that I actually moved to Utah, and I thought, “I'm going to go to college. I'm going to.” I applied at BYU, and I was a decent high school student. I had a B average, you know, I mean, A's, B's, and C's. But I applied to BYU and didn't get accepted, and I was devastated. So, I went to what was then, oh gosh, was it Utah Tech? Anyways, I went to the community college down in Provo and Orem. LR: Oh, so that's Utah Valley. 3 CMF: Yes, technical school at that time. I took a shorthand class, and I was so proud that I had actually taken a college-level class, and then didn't have the chance to go back because I didn't have money. I ended up going back to California and working, and I ended up getting married. My husband had a master's degree, and I remember he was in the military. He was in the Air Force. I remember thinking, “I want to go to college.” I'd say, “Brent, isn't it a good idea if I go to college?” He goes, “Yes.” I said, “I at least want to get an associate's degree.” He said, “You can. After I get my PhD.” I said, “When are you going to get your PhD?” He goes, “After I retire.” Once again, I was told, “No, you're not good enough to go to college.” That's how I felt, that I wasn't good enough. We had four beautiful children, and when our baby was six weeks old, my husband was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and he was given a year to live. He died a year later, and during that time, I was thinking, “How am I going to raise my kids? How am I going to support my children? What am I going to do?” In my head is, “I'm going to go to college.” I knew that because my husband had been in the Air Force, I could go to college on the GI Bill. So, I was planning that in my head, and still my husband was not supportive of me going to college. The week before he died, he said, “Promise me something.” I said, “Of course, whatever.” 4 “That you will not go to college, that you will get a job and support the kids.” So, like a kindergartner, I raised my head and I did this, [fingers crossed behind her back] and I said, “I promise I won't go to college.” But I knew I had a five-year plan, and that five-year plan was to spend the first year making sure my children were secure and that we were okay. Then I was going to start college, and I did. My first semester—or, it was quarters back then—my first quarter, I took a social work class and the professor said, “You have to do 20 hours of community service.” I thought, “What can I do? My goodness, 20 hours of community service.” So, I started a support group for young widows and widowers who were raising their children. It was called You're Not Alone, and I facilitated that group. I didn't know, I wasn't a therapist; I didn't know what to do. So, I'd invite speakers, and speakers that I knew were professors at the university. I'd have different people come and speak at my group. That group stayed intact for quite a while. At the end of the four years, I was getting ready to graduate from Weber, and the group was still going, and I was connecting with the community. I was connecting with all the different mortuaries. Lindquist Mortuary, all the different mortuaries and funeral homes, and had pamphlets so that they could give it to people that were in that situation, so they could come to the group. At the end, last quarter of my senior year, I had a professor that said, “Carol, where are you going for your master's degree?” 5 I said, “I'm not, I’ve got to get a job. I have to raise my kids. I've got to support my kids.” She goes, “That's not what I asked you. I said, where are you going for your master's degree?” I said, “I'm not going for my master's degree. I will someday, but I can't right now.” She goes, “Carol, I'm asking you, where are you going?” I said, “Well, I don't know.” She goes, “I'm going to fail you in my class if I don't have an application for grad school on my desk by Friday.” I said, “You can't do that.” She said, “Watch me,” and I believed her. I got an application for the University of Utah, filled it out, went to her office and said [slams hand on table], “There's the application, now I deserve my A,” because I was graduating with honors. She said, “You'll get your A.” What I didn't know is she wrote a letter of recommendation. She submitted my application to the University of Utah, and I got accepted on a full ride scholarship. LR: Oh, wow. CMF: How do you say no? LR: Yeah, how do you say no? CMF: I still get chills about that. She changed my life. She truly changed my life. I learned that one person can make a difference. She saw in me something I didn't 6 see in myself, so I made that kind of my internal how I wanted to see other people. I wanted to see in them what they didn't see in themselves, and over the years that happened. When I graduated with my masters, I knew what I wanted to do, and I knew that I was going to go into mental health and become a therapist. I had a job lined up, and I happened to run into her at a conference. She goes, “What are you going to do?” I told her, she goes, “No, you're not.” I said, “Yes, I am.” She goes, “Carol, no you're not.” I said, “But—” “Carol, no you're not.” I thought, “I owe her something.” She goes, “You are going to apply for the job as a counselor for women at Weber State.” I thought, “Okay, I could do that, and I'll apply, but they're not going to hire me. I don't have that kind of experience yet.” I applied for the job, and I got it. I thought, “Okay, I'll work here for a year, maybe two, gain the experience and then go into private counseling.” I loved it. I absolutely loved everything about it. After being a counselor for three years, I became the director. At that time, Toni Weight, who—you know the name Toni Weight at Weber State? There's the Toni Weight Awards now. She had been the Vice President of Student Affairs, and she was phenomenal. She goes, “Carol, where else do you want to go at the university? I'll help you get wherever you want to go.” 7 I said, “I don't want to go anywhere else. This is my heart. This is my soul. This is my passion.” She said, “Okay, I'll support you 100%.” I stayed in what was then called Services for Women Students and then later changed to the Women's Center, because all the departments were changing to “centers” rather than Services for Multicultural Students or Services for International Students. They all became centers. LR: Okay. I have questions, but we’re gonna kind of go back— CMF: That's okay. LR: For a little bit, because I think it's important. You mentioned that your husband was in the Air Force. Was he active duty or National Guard? CMF: No, he was active duty full-time. He was the director of intelligence for the Air Force. LR: Okay, so were you traveling with him? CMF: We usually moved about every two to three years to different locations. LR: My question is, how do you think that experience helped you as you then had to embark on being a single parent, you know, finding, navigating your way through that? How do you think that helped? CMF: Oh, the fact that we had moved so many times, and we were living in California when he was diagnosed. I knew that I couldn't afford to live in California. My family was all there, but my family wasn't real connected. We looked for an economically depressed state. Utah was it. We moved to Utah, found a small home, but it was bigger than any place we'd ever had in California. Three months 8 later, after we moved here, he died. So, he didn't live long, but he lived long enough to see us get settled. I felt comfortable, and we never told anybody in our neighborhood that he was dying. It came a little bit as a surprise to them, but they were so supportive and so helpful. When the time came that I wanted to go to school, there was a woman in my neighborhood that said, “I will watch your children for you. I will take care of your kids so you can go to school.” LR: Nice. CMF: To this day, I am forever eternally grateful for this woman. I ended up paying her what I could. I'm an artist and so I paint a lot, and I'll share a little more later with that, but I painted her a large painting for her home as a thank you for all that she had done for me. LR: When you moved to Utah, where did you move to? CMF: To Layton. LR: Okay. This is just my own curiosity, which part of Layton? CMF: East Layton. Right on the border of Layton Elementary School. Just really close to Layton Elementary School. LR: Okay. I raised my children in Layton, which is why I am asking. CMF: Oh good. LR: They all went to Layton Elementary. CMF: Okay, we have so much in common. LR: I know, it's kind of funny. So, what year did you start at Weber? CMF: Let's see, Brent died in ’88, so in ‘89. I'm sorry, it would have been in ‘90 because I waited a year. 9 LR: Okay, so was it a university then? CMF: Wasn't a university yet. Weber State College. LR: I'm not as versed in the university history as I am Ogden. CMF: That's okay. LR: I apologize about that. All right, but while you were getting your degree, did it become a university? CMF: It did. My senior year. LR: Okay. When you were looking for a place to live in Utah, why Davis County? CMF: That's a good question. It's a really good question. LR: I'm just curious why Davis County? CMF: Well, we knew that Salt Lake was too big, was probably going to be more expensive. I loved the mountains; I had never lived close to the mountains, and Layton. I remember saying I wanted to be close to a college. I couldn't say that to my husband, but I could say it to me. Layton was as close to a college without being in Ogden, and Layton was just a beautiful community. Our realtor had told us Kaysville or Layton and, they said, “You don't want to live in Kaysville because it's landlocked. You can't grow, so move to Layton.” So, we did. LR: All right. You started at Weber in 1990. This is more of a question about the way campus looked: When you first started, how was campus different than it is today? CMF: Oh, my goodness. Much smaller, much smaller. The School of Social Work, all the classes were right there. I mean, I didn't have to go to any other building it seemed like. If I took an English class, it was in the same building. Math classes 10 was in another building, and I still think math stands for mental abuse to humans. But yeah, it was so much smaller. I went to very few buildings throughout my career of getting my education. Everything was really, really close. Other than the science building, I had to walk a little bit. LR: So, most your classes were in the Social Science Building? CMF: Yes. LR: The one that is now Lindquist Hall? CMF: Yes. LR: Okay. Throughout your time at Weber, and I'm going to get to your career in a minute. CMF: You're fine. LR: What are some of the changes that you saw on campus throughout your career? CMF: Oh, I haven't even thought about that. What I did see is, I saw a growth of the university trying to identify how to help other populations, because it didn't. I wasn't as familiar with what was really happening because I stayed in my own little area, very rarely ever even went into the Union Building. Because my job was to go to school, study, go home, be a mom, do your homework, go to bed and come back to school. But I did see that there were changes. In fact, I did see this, probably more so after I started working at Weber. But there was more outreach to the Ogden community to bring people onto campus that hadn't thought about coming to campus before. Because my office was right next to the Multicultural Center, we worked together and going out into the community to do presentations to bring women and other population, women 11 and men onto campus, to help them to know that scholarship funding was available, that there were ways to go to school if they wanted to. LR: That's amazing. When you first started, you said it was Services for Women Students. Where was your office? Where was that located? CMF: Now it's in the—you know where Career Services is? RB: It’s in the Student Service Building. CMF: Student Service Building? Okay. So, in the lower level of the Student Service Building, and my office overlooked the pond. I was just right there in the little corner office. You know, everything that was important for me—Academic Advisement was in the same building, Special Populations was in that building, the Health Center was in that building. I loved it. LR: When you initially started, you didn't have any experience, you were shocked that you got the position. CMF: Absolutely. In fact, I was shocked that I was invited to be interviewed. When I was hired and Doctor Sharon Parkinson, who was the professor that was my advocate. She was amazing. Her daughter applied for the job too, and she told me her daughter was applying for the job. I thought, “Well, there's no way that I'm going to get the job if her daughter is applying for the job.” Sharon Parkinson had been the director of the Women's Center at one time, or Services for Women Students at the time. But it ended up that her daughter and I were both hired at the same time, so I got to know her daughter very well. LR: That's amazing. You're sitting in this career that you've always wanted, working with students. I can’t think of the right way to ask this question. 12 CMF: Let me let me input this. What was very different about Services for Women Students was at that time, because I was hired as a counselor, we did counseling in the Women's Center. So, we worked with students that were going through difficult situations, whether it was sexual assault or domestic violence or personal issues, whatever those might be, for up to three sessions. At the end of the three sessions, three to five sessions max, then we would refer them to the counseling center. They would kind of initially come to us, and then we would refer them to the counseling center. Sometimes if the issues were more serious and we knew they were going to be long-term needing counseling, we would refer them immediately to the counseling center. We didn't have as many programs at that time. It was more one on one interactions, and it was helping nontraditional students as well as traditional students coming in. Getting them connected with enrollment, getting them connected with scholarships, getting them connected with academic advisors who could help them create their plan for their education. It was very, very different than what it later evolved to become. LR: What are some of the other—I’ll just ask it the way I wrote it down. What else did the center provide when you initially started? You said there's counseling, what else? CMF: One-on-one advisement as to how to get into school, how to find the funding to go to school. We worked with the financial aid office and we would refer them for Pell Grants. We would work with the enrollment office. We worked to help them actually fill out their paperwork to get admitted into Weber State University. So, it 13 was very one-on-one, but let's get you into school, let's help you find a way to stay in to school. LR: So, were they referred to you? CMF: A lot of times they were coming through the high schools, because we did outreach to high schools to encourage students to come to college. We were very involved with going into the community to agencies and organizations that work specifically with women. So, Safe Harbor, Your Community Connection, you know, really reaching out to women that might not otherwise think that they would ever have the chance to come to college. Outreach into the community was really important to us, and that's how we got a lot of students, or potential students to come. LR: That's really cool. How long did you work as a counselor in the Services for Women Students? CMF: Almost three years. LR: I think you said that. I know you might have already mentioned it, but what did your title become after that? CMF: When I applied for the job as director, I didn't think I would get it, because there were too many people from out of state that had the experience, and too many other people that had been at the university a lot longer than I did that were applying for that position. I really didn't think that I was going to get it, and when I did, I was beyond ecstatic. I was so excited because I had a vision. I had a dream for the center. I had a dream for the women on campus, and I wanted it to be bigger and better. That's when we started implementing programs. Some of 14 the programs we needed money, because every department needs extra money. We created a Women's Fair. The Women's Fair reached out to departments on campus that really wanted to let women know that they could come and graduate with those degrees, because there were a lot of areas that were more typically men. You know, when you think of automotive technology, not as many women. But then we reached out to the community, and as many organizations and agencies that worked with women, regardless of their circumstances, we invited to the Women's Fair. We charged them $100 for a booth, and that gave us money and funding to add to our budget, and we provided lunch for them. I remember our first Women's Fair, we had 73 booths, and it grew from there. It was wonderful to connect with the community, because that gave us more and more opportunities to go out and teach them. We spent so much money on pamphlets because we wanted every agency and organization to have information that they could give out to help women come to college. LR: Right. What year did you become the director? CMF: That would have been, let's see, I came to Weber State in ’96, so it would have been in ‘99. 1999 or 2000 is really close. LR: What was the first year of the Women's Fair? CMF: Oh my gosh, I don't know exactly. Honestly, I’d have to go look through all the scrapbooks that are here on campus in your library. So, there's a lot of books there. LR: Good to know. How long did the Women's Fair continue? 15 CMF: About three years until we were told not to do it anymore. LR: Why were you told not to do it? CMF: They didn't like the idea of us getting money for our own budget. What was really fun is that the person, the director of Career Services, Wynn Stanger, saw us doing that as a way of making money. So, he started the Career Fair, which now are huge. He's been doing those for years. It started with the Women's Fair. Then it became, you know, he did his, and did that. LR: Being told to not do that, did the university provide a way for you to gain more funds? CMF: A little bit. You have to always apply for, you know, your student fee funds, which is what's helped us. I said, “Fine, we need more money because we are doing more programs, and here are some of the other programs we're doing.” We were doing Wisdom on Wednesday, was WoW. But I had a really deep-rooted need to find a way to get money for students to go to school. Yes, there's the Pell Grant, yes there are other scholarships that are available, but some people may not be eligible for a Pell Grant just because it's just slightly over. So, how do you help those people that couldn't go to college because they can't get the Pell Grant? You know, they can't get other academic scholarships because maybe they weren't that great of a student in high school. We started a new program called Elegant Evening of Recognition. We did have donors in the Women's Center that provided funding for our scholarship. There was a woman named Jane Breen. I only met her briefly, but she had worked at Weber State, and she had been a single mom and then she 16 had gotten married. She had a significant amount of money. She donated $10,000 a year for single moms to go to school. Unfortunately, Jane passed away early, but her husband continued to support that Breen scholarship. I thought, “Okay, we need to find a way to acknowledge those donors.” Some donors only gave like $2,000 a year, maybe five, more maybe one, that didn't matter. We really wanted to acknowledge them, so I started an event called Elegant Evening of Recognition, and it was where the students that had received scholarships could speak and talk about their experiences, and the donors could be acknowledged for what they did. I thought, “Okay, well, if we have just the donors and just the scholarship recipients, what if we invite the board of trustees? What if we invite some of our community members to come to that event?” Our scholarship funding went from 28,000 to 163,000? I can't remember the exact amount. That became a yearly event, and every year the funding increased and increased and increased. Then we had, and I probably am not going to say the name, but a vice president of student affairs that didn't like our event, thought that it was too dressy because everybody got really dressed up for the elegant evening. We had Christmas trees with the white lights, even though it wasn't Christmas time. We really decorated nicely and made it elegant, and he didn't like it, so we had to cut the program. That was unfortunate, because I think the funding could have continued to grow throughout the years. But we just looked for other programs and other ideas, and I never stopped reaching out to our donors and sending thank you notes. It became kind of a policy, if you will, that our scholarship 17 recipients were always asked to come into the office and hand write thank you notes to send out to our donors. LR: That's amazing. Out of curiosity, what year did that event end? CMF: Oh, I knew you were going to ask me. I am horrible at dates. I am really horrible. LR: How long did it run? CMF: It ran for about three years, and you’ll have that in the library. I kept scrapbooks of all the years and all the services and things that we did. When I left, one of the scrapbooks got thrown away by the incoming person, so I asked if I could collect them, and I took them and donated them all to the library. So, the library has most of those. LR: Okay, that's good to know. You mentioned that you had a dream for the Women's Center, and you've talked about a few things, but what are some of the other things that you wanted to implement as a director? CMF: I wanted more information to go out to keep women safe. To me, that was a huge issue. Maybe it was my background, maybe it was just the fact that I could see so much happening with different students. We really enhanced our sexual assault awareness program and our domestic violence awareness program. With Sexual Assault Awareness Month, we bought hundreds and hundreds of red flags about this big, and we placed them all over the ground all over campus, so people would easily see them and identify and wonder what they were. Then we put posters and signs around campus. Red flags, these are, you know, the warning signs for Sexual Assault Awareness Month, for Domestic Violence Awareness Month. Be aware. Be safe. We kept those flags out for years, and 18 you know, they would only stay out for the month, and then we would collect them again. But just bringing awareness to those types of situations. Breast cancer awareness, women's issues, I wanted awareness for all women's issues and Breast Cancer Awareness Month. It's like, how do you get the word out to women? Well, I saw something online and I thought, “We need to do that.” What I saw online was something that was called "bra-haha," so we got several hundred bras donated, and students came to the Women's Center, and they got as many bras as they wanted, and they decorated them. Then we displayed them in the Union Building, and it brought so much more awareness to Breast Cancer Awareness Month. Then we gave that to the National Breast Cancer Awareness in Salt Lake City, and they found out about us and they loved it. So, when we were done with our Breast Cancer Awareness Month, we donated those bras to them, and they used them and they auctioned them off, you know, for funding for Breast Cancer Awareness Month. LR: That's real fun. What are some other things that that you implemented? CMF: Oh, I wish I would have brought my list, because I was thinking about it. You know, one of the things that we did that hadn't been done before is practicums and internships. The Women's Center hadn’t offered those before, and I always think of one particular student, that I sent you her name. But it was in the beginning of us accepting practicum students, and she came into my office, and I remember her sitting there with the professor right next to her, and I know she'll be okay with me sharing this story. 19 She came in, they said she couldn't get a practicum internship anywhere. Nobody would hire her or accept her as a practicum student because she had a felony on her record. I said, “There is something about you,” and I remembered what Doctor Sharon Parkinson said, you know, and how she made me feel that you have to look in a person, not at a person, and what's their potential? This woman to me just glowed. She wanted so badly to get a degree in social work. She wanted to do something for somebody else, and I saw that in her. I said, “I'll hire her, I will have her here.” She went on to get her bachelor's degree, her master's degree, started her own therapeutic clinic. She's opened her second one. I don't know how many employees she has now, but multiple, multiple therapists. I think of her as somebody who had a passion but didn't think it could be fulfilled. I think of so many other students that came into my office, and single moms a lot, who would say, “I can't do this. This is too hard. The money is hard, but even if I had the money, I can't do it because I have two little kids or three little kids.” Then I would share my story and say, “I had four little kids, and here's some of the ways you can do that.” As I said, make it a family event and go to your local library. They have children's sections in the library; let them get as many of the books as they want to look at. You do your homework, let them look at their books. Is it easy? No, but just giving them ideas of things that they could do that incorporate their children, that help their children, and will help them to be successful. I said, for me, I knew that as soon as class was over, if I went home 20 and picked up my kids from the daycare provider, from the woman that was providing daycare, I wouldn't have time for homework. So, when I was at school, I was a student, and when I was at home, I was a mom. I'd stay at school, get my homework done, go home and be a mom. LR: I'm curious if there are any other stories that stand out to you of women that the center and you were able to help that just pop into your head? CMF: I do, I think of several. I think of one woman. I remember Marisol so well because she was always saying, “I need to quit. I need to quit. I can't do this. I can't do this.” I said, “Marisol, you can, you can.” She is now a full-time employee at Weber State and she is working as an advisor. I think, “Marisol, you had it, and you're doing it. You're a great example to your kids.” I think of another woman named Stacey, who her personal circumstances were really difficult. She had two young kids at the time, and she's graduated and she's done really well. She now funds a scholarship, the I Can I Will scholarship. I remember her saying, “Carol, you found a way for me to have funding to go to school. I want to give back to help somebody else go to school.” So, those students stand out so much. This is personal, but for me, I knew my parents hadn't ever gotten their education. I knew what it meant to me to be a first-generation student to get that education, and I wanted my kids to have it. So, when my oldest daughter was 14, I blackmailed her, and I said, “Someday you're going to want to get married, and I will do the best I can to give you whatever wedding reception, wedding I can 21 afford to do, if you have a college degree in your hands.” I told my other daughter that, and they both believed me, and they both got their college degrees before they graduated. I'm a proud mom to say that my oldest daughter is currently working on her doctorate program, and she is the executive director over a campus very similar to the OWATC in Texas. My oldest son has his PhD and is a psychologist at BYU. My other daughter is a financial analyst, and she does analytics all the time. I said she didn't get her math skills from me. My older son graduated from the police academy at Weber State, and he's the director of a security firm. So, I think, you know, one person, it takes one person to make a difference. Doctor Parkinson made that difference for me, and I hope I made that difference for my children. I know that they are making the difference for their kids, so that cycle of undereducation, I believe, is broken. LR: It seems, as you've been talking, that there's this idea of paying it forward that is almost like an unspoken reality of what the Women's Center was. How did you see that continue as your career progressed? CMF: Oh, it evolved. We still were really focused on outreach and community and doing things, but I think it was also encompassing more of the campus. We, the staff of the Women's Center, would contact faculty in all different areas and say, “Could we please come in for just five to 10 minutes in the beginning of your class and talk about—” whether it was scholarships, whether it was services, whether it was domestic violence, sexual assault? We did that. 22 Then I decided, “You know what? We're not really addressing the issue of men in the Women's Center.” There were a few men that would come in from time to time, and there was one man in particular. I remember him because he would always come in, but he always wore his high heels, and he would come in. He knew that the Women's Center was a place that he could feel comfortable, and I loved that. So, I started doing outreach to the male soccer team, the football team, basketball team. “Could I please come before one of your meetings when you are training and talk for just five or 10 minutes?” We started doing some very quick, very specific, very short on what domestic violence is, what sexual assault is and what it isn't. But there's things, if somebody says no, that's it. You don't go there. I don't know if it was a direct result of us going to those teams, but there was a wonderful organization that was created that was called Men of Weber. Men of Weber focused on domestic violence and sexual assault and that they were the strong men; “This is what a real man is.” So, we created a poster campaign of real men at Weber State. We put men and their testimonies of what it takes to be a real man, and we had posted all those around campus, named The Real Men of Weber. I was shocked and surprised. I have it, these little awards, that I was given the Most Compassionate Woman of Weber award from the Men of Weber. That meant the world to me. I don't know how long that group existed and how long it stayed. There were some people that liked our posters, Real Men of Weber, and there were some people that didn't. Some people graffitied over it. It only lasted I think two 23 years, you know, but the idea was getting the word out that there were real men that respect the rights of women, and we wanted them to be acknowledged for who they are. LR: When did the Women's Center move and actually change the name to the Women's Center? CMF: It changed to the Women's Center before we actually moved out of the center, so it did change before that. Moving where we did, where we were next to and in the same area with the Nontraditional Student Center, it became just kind of our little hub. We didn't do as much collaborating as we could have. I think that we were just both so focused on what we wanted to get done to meet the needs of the students that we were representing in that. I think Debbie Kragen, who is director of the Non-Trad Center, was really good about sharing students and helping and putting our information out and supporting any programs that we did, and we for them likewise. We didn't collaborate as much on programs, but we did a lot in supporting each other, and the students on programs. LR: You moved into the Union Building? CMF: Yes. LR: Remind me which floor? CMF: Second floor. LR: Okay. You don't remember what year that was? CMF: I'm sorry. I'm really bad. LR: It's all good. How long into being director did the move happen? Do you recall that? 24 CMF: Oh, my gosh, it would have been at least five years. LR: Okay, so we're looking at the 2000s and like— CMF: So, your guess is going to be as good as mine. LR: 2010 almost, right in there. Maybe. CMF: Maybe before that, because I've been retired for 10 years, so it would have been before that. LR: Okay, so with that change of location, the change of the name, do you think that made a difference in what you offered? Did it make it more easy for women to find? CMF: I don't know that it made it easier to find. I think being in the Union Building, we have more direct access to the food court and putting up signs and saying we are here. I think what really changed from being in the Student Service Building and then changing is that we had so many more focuses on programs. When I first started at Weber State, we had a sheet of paper with all the checkoff lists that we would give to students. Yes, we showed you the admissions office. Yes, we showed you enrollment. Yes, we showed you financial aid, and check, your academic advisor, you know, all this checklist so that the students knew, and then we took them on a little tour. We didn't do those checklists anymore. Now we were focused more on how many programs can we create that will really make a difference for women? What can we do to provide as much as we can in as many different ways as we can to reach as many populations? So, we did outreach, and we did some collaborations with the 25 Multicultural Center, we did collaborations with the international students. We just wanted to reach as many students as we could. We even did programs specifically for students with disabilities. I remember as a little girl, down the street from me was a boy that was blind. His mom taught me how to read braille. I don't remember much except for ABCD and you know, the little things, but I remember being eight years old and learning to read braille, because I wanted to be able to do something so Johnny didn't feel by himself as a neighbor. As my husband says, “Carol, you think too much about other people.” I do, and I love that, I love reaching out to other people. It's not about me. The year that I received a woman of the year, I didn't expect that at all. In fact, my mom came from California and I said, “Just know, I'm not getting the award, Mom. I'm just one of five nominees, so don't be disappointed, because I'm not going to be getting it,” and I did. I was really, really shocked and really humbled. But I think it's not about the awards that you get, it's about the rewards that you feel from within. People could have stacks and stacks of awards but you know what, those could all be put in a trash can. But the difference of how you feel about yourself and what you did for other people, that's what really matters to me. LR: I keep asking the year, but what year did you receive woman of the year? CMF: Oh, golly. I think 2010. LR: Okay, and was that through the Women's Center? CMF: No, that was the university-wide. That's Crystal Crest Woman of the Year. 26 LR: Thank you. CMF: Sorry. LR: It's okay. That's kind of important. How long were you the director of the Women's Center? CMF: Most all of my career. I spent 18 years—so, 15 years. LR: Okay. So, that means, 18 years, you retired in— CMF: 2014. LR: It just doesn't seem right. Okay, so in your time in the Women's Center, how did the women's population change here at Weber in the sense of their needs? CMF: I think basic needs are still the same. Money's always an issue. You know, having time, balancing, whether it's family, whether it's jobs, work. Trying to find that balance is always the same. But I found that the transition—women felt less needy, emotionally needy, and that sounds really odd, but I think women were beginning to find their inner strengths more so as time went by. When they were coming to campus, it wasn't, “I don't know if I can do this,” but it was, “I'm going to do this, and this is what I'm going to do, and then I'm going to do this, and then I'm going to do this.” I found that women were beginning to see strengths in themselves more readily than what had happened when I first came to Weber State. I don't know if that makes a lot of sense. LR: That actually does. This is a total opinion question, but what do you think brought that about? CMF: Going back into history, I think the women's movement had a lot to do with that. I think the fact that women were beginning to see that they had equal rights, and 27 for a long time, many women didn't feel like they had equal rights. I mean, I was one of those women that didn't feel like I had equal rights. I got married, I was happily married, I was a wife and a mom, and that was my role. To go to school and be a student was not a role my husband thought I should have, so I respected my husband because he was the patriarch of the family. I kind of did things his way. But then when I went to school and got my degrees and found out who I was inside, I stayed a single mom for 23 years, raising my kids and being the best woman that I could be and doing things. Yes, I worked full time in the Women's Center. I also taught part time adjunct in the social work department. I taught part time in the first-year experience program. I worked a lot. Actually, two other nights a week—I really did spend time with my kids—I taught art. I taught the techniques of Rembrandt and Leonardo da Vinci, classical oil painting. I'm still doing that to this day, you know, and I have a waiting list for students to get into my classes. Some students stay for six months. One woman has stayed, in fact she just had to drop out. She's been for nine and a half years. She's 85, and her health is just a situation where she can't drive and come to classes any more. But I think that was my dream. There were two things I wanted before I ever got my education. I always wanted to be a social worker, because I wanted to help other people. Either a social worker or a psychologist, those were my dreams, and I always wanted to teach art. Those were my passions. The art has continued all throughout that time period. 28 LR: We haven't really talked about your art. First of all, [to Raegan] do you have any questions? Okay. You said you always had this love of art; how long have you been painting? CMF: My first painting, one of the first paintings that I remember that I still have is a rock. I was 10 years old. It's about this big and has a hole in it. Well, my dad was a heavy smoker, so I made it for him for Father's Day, painted a face on it to put the cigarettes out in the hole in the mouth. I've just always painted. When I was in high school—I take that back. I was in ninth grade. They had an honors art program, and they chose two students from each school to attend a summer art workshop class. I was one of the two students selected from my school, and that to me was like, oh my gosh. Then in high school when I was a senior, they said, “Carol, will you paint in the classroom, in the art room, will you paint a mural, a forest?” So, I painted a mural. I found a picture of it about a year ago, had totally forgotten about it. A friend was going, “Look at the trees.” I remember that. I look at it now and I think, “Oh, that was poorly done,” but at the time it was realistic. Now my passion is I will paint large paintings, large landscapes, and I'll show you later, but large landscape paintings. I donate them to our fire departments and our police departments, and Huntsman Cancer Institute, because there are so many. My current husband's wife, first wife, died of cancer. My husband died of cancer. That's another whole story, meeting him, but when my first husband and I moved to Layton, we moved into the same neighborhood as my current husband and his wife and family. So, I worked with his daughters in the young women's 29 program, he worked with my sons in Scouts, we knew each other's families. We weren't close friends, but we knew each other, knew each other well. Then I moved out of that neighborhood after living in that house in Layton for 12 years, moved to a different house in Layton. Fast forward 10 years, the Davis Conference Center asked me to exhibit my artwork. They were opening a gallery, and they said, “Could you fill the gallery?” I said, “Sure,” so I fill the gallery with all my artwork. The mayor could not be there that day for the opening ribbon cutting for the gallery. My current husband is on the City Council, and the mayor asked him to go for the ribbon cutting, and that's how we reconnected. We got married a year later. LR: That's interesting. CMF: Just unexpected, but I have been painting passionately for a long, long time. Giving back, for me, hopefully it's a life mission; I always want to be giving back in some ways. So, hoping that every Davis County Fire Department, police department, has a painting in their station. LR: Having that outlet of art, were you able to incorporate that into how you helped in the Women's Center? Do you understand my question? CMF: I'm not sure. LR: I've found that having an outlet—forgive me, I'm getting tired. What's the word I'm looking for? RB: Creative? 30 LR: Creative outlet, thank you, has a way of just calming. Were you able to incorporate that into how you helped in the Women's Center, helping these women find some form of creative outlet? CMF: I would always stress for my students, whether it's music, whether it's dance, whether it's exercise; whatever it is that's of value to you, make sure you find the time to do something for yourself. I said I used to run away from home, even as an adult, and get a babysitter for my kids. I would run away to a hotel in Salt Lake, and I would take myself to a movie, and I'd take myself out to dinner. Then I would read a book until whatever hours in the morning, and then I'd go home. It was just a chance to give to me. This one student, Teresa, who has the counseling centers, she goes, “I remember that there were times when I would send flowers to myself at work. I would say, ‘Because you are loved.’ I would never sign my name or anybody else's name to it, just a reminder that you are loved. At times, people say, ‘Who sent you the flowers?’ ‘I don't know, they didn't sign it.’” Years later, I’d tell students how you should send them to [yourself] and they said, “What a great idea.” Sometimes you have to give back to yourself. If there's nobody there to do it for you, then you have a responsibility to do it for yourself. It doesn't have to be anything big. It doesn't have to be anything expensive. Sometimes, maybe it's just going for a walk. But doing something that feeds your soul, something that helps you feel like you are of value. 31 The other thing, most all students that come to my office will know this, because I always had chocolate. I mean, there was never a day that there wasn't a bowl of chocolate. Every student, whether they came to the Non-Trad Center, whether they came to the Women's Center, they know they could come to my office, they could grab a handful of chocolate of whatever it is. I still have that for all of my art students. There’s never a time that there isn't a lot of chocolate. There's always chocolate, music, and laughter in my classes. Even at Weber when I taught social work, before an exam I would pass out chocolate, because I'd say, “Chocolate stimulates the brain cells, good luck on your exam.” LR: What prompted you to retire from the Women's Center, because you still teach? CMF: Yes. LR: Because it's something that you were so passionate about. If you're willing to share. CMF: No, that's fine, because I always thought I was going to stay till I was 110. I mean, I loved it, but two things. One, I always thought that when you have to leave something, leave when you're at your very best, leave when you're on the top. I felt like I had given the Women's Center the best of everything that I had. I thought, “Maybe it is.” What I didn't tell you is that when I reconnected with my current husband, he was retired. He's 10 years older than I, and he was retired. He married me, he got a job at Weber. He was working at Weber, and I retired. It worked out really well. So, he's still here. He's thinking of retiring probably in January, but he's 82 and he's still working and doing amazing. He loves it, and they love him. 32 We have that connect and that commonality of the importance of students and staff and working together. Because working in the Women's Center wasn't just about students, we did a lot with faculty. In fact, I started a program that we also called WoW, which is Women of Weber, Women of Wisdom, Women of Wit, Women of Wonder. Women of anything—not of wealth—women of anything that's said for WoW, then individuals could nominate a faculty, a staff, or a student. We gave a list, if it happened to be a Woman of Weber or a Woman of Wisdom, there would be a student, a faculty, and a staff member that would receive those awards. We would do that. That was a wonderful event and well attended, but it was a way to bring faculty, staff, and students all together. LR: That's brilliant. You've been away from the Women's Center for quite some time. What was your feeling when you heard that the Women's Center would be closing? CMF: Heartbroken would be a good one. I looked at all the offices. When you think of DEI, diversity, equity and inclusion, everybody needs a place where they feel that they're welcome, that they belong, that they feel safe. Each of those centers provides that, and it doesn't matter your culture, your ethnicity, your gender. What matters is there's some place that you can go that you can meet with people that you can relate to, and that you could be a part of. For me, with the Women's Center, I embrace all those populations. But I also learned a long time ago, my mom taught me, “Carol, learn to look in a person, not at a person,” so I've always done that. I don't care what people look like; I don't care their skin color. I matter about who you are as an individual and as a person. 33 Having those centers not available is sad, and yet I hope that people can learn and do more. Looking in a person, not at a person, and embracing people for who they are and bringing people together and sharing their differences and finding out that their differences are beautiful. You can learn, if you listen and you learn from other people, you're going to be a better individual. But if you choose not to listen to somebody else because they’re different, you know, and you don't learn from what they can bring to the table, then it's your loss. LR: How do you think the closing of these centers will affect students? CMF: I think it'll be very, very difficult for some. I mean, regardless of the center, I think that it's going to be very difficult for some people. I think that there are these people that will find the negativity in it, and there will be people that will look for positivity in it. I hope that in some way that when we look at diversity, equity and inclusion, we think of inclusion as unity and that we find a way to unify, to bring together where we are the same rather than where we are different, because we all have those emotions, and we all need to find a way to express those emotions in a safe way that helps other people be better. LR: I really like that. Before I ask the final two questions, do you have any other stories or memories you want to share of the culture center or the Women's Center specifically? CMF: Oh, there's so many. My life is full of those memories. It's the students who have enriched my life far more than I could have ever enriched theirs. You know, I think of groups we had. When I first came to the Women's Center, they had a single mother group support group, and that was great. We changed that to be a 34 relationship separation support group so that it included both men and women. It didn't matter that you were divorced, didn't matter whether you were never married, if you had been in a relationship and you were separated and you needed support, that was a place to come. Seeing the changes in the Women's Center, and how those lives have been impacted. I chuckle and I smile when I think of a young man that had come to the relationship separation support group and a woman that did, and a year later they were married. It’s the fun stories, it's the stories that can make you laugh, and there's some of the stories that I don't cry very often at all, but that get you choked up and a little bit teary eyed. It's the beauty of those relationships. RB: What would you say is your favorite program or event that you put on while you were director? CMF: Honestly, it would probably have to be the Elegant Evening of Recognition and the Wow Awards, because it was so inclusive of all women on campus. To see the excitement and the joy that people receive because they got a little trophy and a certificate. I'm all about giving to people in ways that might create a memory. It was not uncommon that I would create certificates of appreciation, or certificates of you make me laugh, or a certificate of you make me smile and handing those out to students in different ways, because everybody needs to smile, everybody needs to feel appreciated. LR: Why is community important? CMF Oh my gosh, because we all need it, and community means different things to different people. Sometimes community is your family. Sometimes community is 35 your neighbors. Sometimes community is an organization or an agency. But when you find out what's out there to really support you and things that you can do to support your community, it strengthens your love for your surroundings. I think for me, I have the Ogden community, which I spend a lot of time in, which I love and I respect immeasurably. I think of Davis County, where I live. I was so surprised Davis County did a single parent of the year award and they gave it to me. I had no idea they even did that kind of award. But community is looking out at other people saying, “What can we do to enrich them? What can we do to bring them closer together?” I think of something simple like Layton Surf and Swim. You know, kids love that, so we rent it out one night here for all our family and friends so that they can come. It's just our little sense of community, of using our community and utilizing what's there to strengthen our inner community. But I think community is incredible. I have endless respect of those people in our communities who do things that we don't know, that risk their lives like police departments and fire departments and our military, I can't do enough to give back to them to say thank you, because they never question what they can do for us. LR: Finally, what do you think we as individuals can do to foster relationships and meet the needs of the underserved communities of Weber? CMF: I think that's really good. I think that to not have a definition exactly of underserved, because then you put people in groups. I think of me as a student, you know, was I underserved? I didn't know there was a Women's Center. I didn't know there was a Pell Grant. I didn't know there was all these other things. Was I 36 a first-generation student? Yes. Could I have been considered underserved? Possibly. But you find a way. I think serving the underserved is looking at the person next to you and doing whatever you can to make somebody else's life better, because we all have something to give, and we all have something we need. LR: I mean, I don't think we can end better than that. Thank you so much for your willingness to talk about your memories and to share on this. I am really grateful, so thank you. CMF: Thank you. 37