Oral History Program Tom Miner Interviewed by Alyssa Kammerman 8 February 2021 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Tom Miner Interviewed by Alyssa Kammerman 8 February 2021 Copyright © 2025 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Hill/DDO’95 oral history project documents the 1995 and 2005 Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC) process and its impact on Utah. In 1993, rumors started to circulate that Hill Air Force Base and Defense Depot Ogden (DDO) would be closed by the 1995 round of BRAC, causing state officials, local government, and local grassroots lobbying group, Hill/DDO’95, to spring into action to save Utah’s military installations from closure or realignment to other facilities. This project includes interviews from a wide range of players, from congressmen, state officials, members of Hill/DDO’95, and the civilian employees of Hill Air Force Base and (DDO). Their accounts describe the process of fighting for the base, the closure of DDO, the formation of the Utah Defense Alliance (UDA) and Military Installation Development Authority (MIDA) from the Hill/DDO’95 group, and their fight to save Hill Air Force Base all over again in 2005. Also discussed is the importance of the F-35 aircraft and the “Falcon Hill” Enhanced Use Lease project to the prosperity of Hill Air Force Base and military relations in Utah. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Miner, Tom, an oral history by Alyssa Kammerman, 8 February 2021, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: This is an oral history interview with Tom Miner. It was conducted on February 8, 2021 through Zoom. Miner discusses his job as Hill Air Force Base’s first civilian Executive Director during the 1995 Base Realignment and Closure. He describes his part in recruiting workers from the newly-closed McClellan Air Force Base and their transition to Hill Air Force Base. The interviewer is Alyssa Kammerman. Also on the call is Sarah Langsdon. AK: Thank you so much for meeting with us today, Tom. I really appreciate it. TM: You're welcome. AK: As Sarah probably told you, I am her assistant and I'll be conducting the interview. Today is February 8, 2021. We are interviewing Tom Miner for the Base Realignment and Closure Project. I am interviewing with Sarah Langston via Zoom. My name is Alyssa Kammerman. So Tom, I just wanted to start out with a little bit of background, since during the 1995 base realignment and closure, you were, as far as I know, Hill Air Force Base's first civilian executive director. TM: Yeah, that's right. AK: I just wanted to know a little bit of what your position was before that and then how you came to be the executive director? TM: Well, immediately before that, I was the deputy director of logistics in the headquarters of the Air Force Materiel Command at Wright Patterson. Before that, when I was the deputy director of Financial Management at headquarters. So, I moved from financial management to logistics. Then when the Air Force decided to make the change from the general officers to civilians with the 1 executive director thing, the commander of the Materiel Command at that time, Ron Yates said, “Hey, we'd like for you to go to Ogden and take that position.” So, that's where it came from. Prior to that, I'd been bouncing around the command for my whole career. When I first joined, I was what they called a management intern. I went to San Antonio and I spent two years rotating through all of the different departments of the logistics center there, trying to learn what a logistic center is, how it works and that sort of thing, and air base wing as well. Then I transferred back to Wright Patterson, worked in program management, contract depot maintenance, and finally in logistics. I worked my way up through the ranks to a GS-15 there. Then in 1987 I transferred to Ogden ALC as a GS-15 and took over one of the divisions in maintenance, director of maintenance. I had missiles, aircraft systems, that kind of thing. That lasted for about three years, then I got promoted to the senior executive service, moved to Oklahoma City ALC and was the deputy director of maintenance there. So, those 7,000 maintenance folks at Oklahoma City essentially worked for me and my boss. Spent three years there, transferred back to Wright Patterson as the deputy director of financial management, as I said, then moved to the deputy director of logistics management, and then to Ogden. So, kind of a migrant worker, I guess you'd say. AK: Well, a lot of experience under your belt, it sounds like. TM: Yeah, it helped. 2 AK: So, was the Ogden Air Logistics Center the first ALC to start the civilian executive director program? Or was that happening with all five of them? TM: No, that was all five. Not exactly at the same time, but when brigadier generals retired, they put them in. If vice commanders got reassigned or whatever they put civilians in in their place, too. So, all five. AK: Can you tell me a little bit about the reason behind doing an executive director position as opposed to a vice commander? TM: Well, I'm not sure all of it. Part of it was a desire on the part of the Air Force to reassign those brigadier general slots to other places in the Air Force where they were needed. The other part is to bring probably more detailed knowledge into the command section, as far as the workings of an air logistics center. A lot of times the vice commander will come in out of an operating unit, or out of another job that may not have at least the breadth of experience. I mean, they’re a lot of outstanding guys and they work real hard, but they may not have had the background to handle some of the aspects of the business. So, I think it was twofold. They needed them somewhere else, and putting us in was probably a good idea. AK: That makes sense. So, during BRAC 1995, I'm curious what kind of involvement you were allowed to have with “save the base” efforts, because as far as we understand, the commander and different military personnel were banned from any kind of “save the base,” Hill/DDO efforts. Where you were technically a civilian worker, were you allowed to help with that at all? 3 TM: No, I had the same restrictions that the commander had. Although I'd lived in the community, I didn't live on base. So, now you're going to have contact with people. I couldn't overtly participate in any political activity. I could give advice and counsel to the locals, but as far as actually going out and advocating for Ogden ALC or anything or doing anything politically like that, no, I couldn't do that. AK: Okay, that makes sense. One question I meant to ask, as you started your role as executive director, did General Perez, who you had replaced, did he give you any advice before he left? TM: No, Carlos was gone before I got there, but I had known him a long time. When you rattle around command as much as I did, you get to know most of these people anyway, so he was a friend. As far as the job goes, no, not really. He was already happily on his way to Florida to retire. AK: Yeah [laughs] that makes sense. Okay, what was your experience with BRAC 1995? What were some of the things that you were allowed to be involved in, since you did have more of a restricted role? TM: Well, mainly my job was to make sure that Ogden Air Logistics Center was performing as well as it possibly could. You know, efficiently, making best use of our budgets, producing quality products, making our customers in the Air Force happy, to make sure that anybody that would look at Ogden and say, “Hey, should we close this place?” You know, if we're doing our job well, if we're efficient, if everybody is pleased with our work, that certainly helps. 4 Other things, of course, helped as well, and that would be the location and the proximity to the Utah Test and Training Range, the physical facilities we had that nobody else had, those kinds of things obviously helped. All we had to do was make sure we protected those, maintained them, and made sure they were working as well as we possibly could. AK: Okay, was there any interservice work that you brought on to make you look more valuable? TM: Yeah, many of the things that we managed and did maintenance on had more customers than just the United States Air Force. You try to do as good a job you can for all your customers, mostly foreign customers, which we had a lot of, and other services. Again, just keep the reputation high, keep your production high, keep it going well so you look good. AK: Absolutely. What kinds of things were you involved in for preparations for the BRAC commissioners’ visit? TM: Not a whole lot other than what I said. Trying to make sure that we gave the commissioners a very accurate picture of what we had at Ogden, how good it was there, how important it was to the mission of the Air Force to keep us open. But we were kind of, at that point, other than giving them briefings that they asked for, giving them the information they had, touring them around to show them everything—we're pretty much precluded from anything else. It was a very objective thing. You gotta show them what you have and show them your cards and say, “Hey this place is good.” 5 AK: I was wondering if you ever got to have kind of a feel of what it felt like for the workers on the base? Was there a lot of concern and tension? TM: Oh, yeah, there was tension across the whole command, not just at Ogden. Any time your jobs looked like they may be threatened, certainly people are going to be concerned. But at the same time, that also makes them focus very hard on doing their jobs well and keep 'em going. So, it was a concern everywhere. Obviously, you've talked to the folks in town, and their concern was equal to ours, I think, as far as keeping the base open and so forth. Having a viable economic base for the Ogden area. So, any time that's threatened, everybody involved is going to pay attention. AK: How would that have affected you, your job personally, if the base had closed? TM: Had the base closed? I'd have gone somewhere else, I guess. AK: You'd have been transferred, like a military worker? TM: Somewhere else. Sure. AK: Do you remember the day when you found out that Hill Air Force Base was on the list to be closed? TM: I knew all along that all of them were on the list to be closed. It was pretty much a given that there would be downsizing across the command. We all knew that pretty much over a period of weeks and months that there had to be some downsizing. There were Department of Defense budgetary restrictions, Air Force budgetary restrictions, pressure from private companies to take over their jobs, take over the workload. There was a considerable amount of concern. 6 AK: I was doing a little bit of research and I found a January 1995 Hilltop Times article that talked about “down Fridays” and how they were beginning to cause problems with work efficiency, customer satisfaction. So, I want to get a little more information about what down Fridays were, exactly. Could that have affected your standing in the BRAC process? TM: Yeah, well, down Fridays is a part of the workload plan called five-four-nine, which is essentially four days a week, nine hours a day, and then you take Friday off. The problem is the Air Force runs every day, and to have essentially a down day when the rest of the Air Force is operating became very difficult. It was a little more expensive from say the depot maintenance standpoint, because there was overtime involved and things like that required to get the job done. If you needed something on a Friday, you had to bring somebody in and get it done, and that costs money. So, we tried to work around that as best we can, but it was kind of a challenge. I didn't like it, honestly. It wasn't my choice. None of the other logistic centers I worked at had it. They were on five eights and seemed to work pretty well. But you play the hand you're dealt. That was already there when I got there. So, I tried to keep the efficiency up, tried to keep the overtime and so forth down to as minimum as you can. I don't know if you understand how the depot maintenance piece of the center works, but the depot maintenance piece actually works as a small company—small big company—within the center. In other words, it gets no appropriated money to operate. You provide your services to your customers, 7 your customers pay for it, you use that revenue to pay your bills. In the case of this kind of company, you try to break even. You don't want to make a profit, you don't want to lose, obviously. But there's nobody handing out appropriations to keep you running. You got to run your business very, very efficiently, keep your prices low and yet cover your costs. So, it's kind of a challenge from that way. That's why the overtime and things like that became an issue. AK: Okay, that makes sense. So, it was more essential to have work efficiency, not just because of BRAC, but also just because that's how you would pay your bills, like you said? TM: Yeah, that's right. AK: Okay, interesting. I'm assuming that a lot of your customers were military, or was there some non-military customers? TM: No. They're all military, some of them were our own organizations. The logistics center includes program management, which are the offices that buy and provide their products and services to the rest of the Air Force. This includes contracting for depot maintenance services. But most of the customers are Air Force, either Air Force or foreign military sales to our foreign allies, people like that. AK: Okay, that's good to know. So, with the extra pressure of the base realignment and closure going on in the background, do you feel like different struggles, maybe in work efficiency, were more of a stressor to the workers? Were they afraid that that would affect their standing with BRAC? TM: Would you repeat the question? I'm not quite sure I understand. 8 AK: Yeah, absolutely. I'm just curious about the pressure that the BRAC process put on the workforce in general. Do you feel like there was more of a concern for maybe even perfecting your work efficiency? TM: Well, I think they all understood that if we weren't effective and efficient, that there's a chance that their jobs would be threatened. So, I'm sure they all dug in, most of them anyway, because their jobs were at stake. If the jobs moved somewhere else, they'd have to move with them or find other work. If Ogden survived the BRAC process, they were good where they were, you know. So, it had to be a concern. I think they reacted well to it. AK: In the aftermath of BRAC 1995, I read that there was a bit of an issue with President Clinton wanting to privatize the work from McClellan and Kelly ALCs. Would you tell me a little bit about how that affected you or your position? TM: Well, that's all part of the public private competition initiative that they started. Essentially what it was, is if there's a workload available, both private industry and the Air Force, Ogden specifically, could compete for it just like you do on any other contract. A statement of work is put out, you bid on that statement of work, and the best proposal wins. That's what we did with the entire workload at McClellan Air Force Base. We bet against two, three, four other private companies, and you give it your best shot. In our case, we won it, so that's good. AK: You won it, but then it sounded like President Clinton was trying to take that workload away and privatize it in place. Is that correct? TM: I think I don't know if he was trying to take it away from the Air Force and give it to private industry. I can't really speculate on that. But I think maybe one of the 9 objectives was to get as efficient as possible to make sure that whatever work we're doing is being done as efficiently and effectively as we could. I don't think there was any vendetta against the Air Force or anything like that. I think it was more of an economic thing. AK: The other thing I read about is, in the aftermath of BRAC 1995, you were assigned to lead the workload transition team at McClellan Air Force Base. Would you tell me a little bit about that? TM: Well, essentially, we won the workload from McClellan, and we had to work to transfer it back to Hill Air Force Base. Which means, number one, you got to make sure you've got the facilities at Hill to do the work, and we did because we wouldn't have won the competition if we didn't. But then you have to go out and find the workers. The people at McClellan were skilled. I mean, they are longterm employees. They're skilled at what they do. When I went out there a few times, you know, with meetings with them and said, “Hey, your workload's coming. If you want to come with it, we'd love to have you. We'll move you to Ogden and put you to work. Your job's not threatened, it's just a matter if you want to leave California and come to Utah.” Many of them did. I'm glad they did, because replacing that kind of experience is just very difficult. The visits out there were pretty positive, the local press out there first thought we had a war going on, but essentially we were trying to get the workload moved efficiently and get it done, but we're also trying to give the people an opportunity to continue their careers, and finally, I think we got that across to them. 10 AK: Okay. I noticed that you guys had been some sort of almost like a job fair day out there, showing what it would look like to move out to Utah. Would you tell me a little about what you did for that? TM: Well, essentially, we took a cross-section of people, some from the community, many from Hill Air Force Base, and went out to them and just explained, “Here's the Ogden area, here's what it has to offer, here's why it's a good place to live, and here's Ogden Air Logistics Center. Here's what we do, here's what you would be doing if you came here,” and tried to paint as good a picture as we can to attract these people. For the most part, it worked pretty well. Obviously, they didn't all come, but enough of them came that we didn't have to struggle too hard to get that work in and get it going well. So, we got a cross-section of people, both from the community, I don't know if we brought any politicians or not, I think one of the mayors may have come. But it was kind of a cross-section, and sort of a sales job, really. AK: So, when you say cross-section, what do you mean? TM: Well, the downtown folks—the politicians, the Chambers of Commerce, Utah Defense Alliance came along I’m sure—I don't remember all of them, but also people from the logistics center. I was there, and several of the people that ran the individual parts of the logistics center came to explain to them what would be going on in their areas. We tried to cover as many bases that we could for anyone that had questions about living in Ogden or working at Hill. We had somebody there that could address them. 11 AK: Did it seem that the McClellan workers were nervous about transitioning up to Ogden? I mean, I'm assuming that they would be in some way, but what was, I guess, the morale? TM: You know, any time you change locations, you've got a certain amount of reservation about, “Where am I going? What am I going to do? How are the schools? What are my kids going to do? Am I going to fit in?” All those kinds of things. That's why we brought that big cross-section of people along with us to try to say, “It's not a bad place.” AK: With how hard Utahans fought for Hill Air Force Base I imagine that Utah workers would be really devastated. Did you get that feeling from the California workers? TM: Well, you know, they're certainly disappointed. They'd rather stay in Sacramento and do the work at McClellan. That's their home, that's where they were rooted. But some went to private industry, a lot of them came with us. Certainly, any time you move there's a certain amount of concern about where are you going, how is it going to be, how's my family going to be? Am I gonna like the work? Is Tom Miner a jerk? You know, those kinds of things. AK: We had been reading through Representative Hanson's papers, and there were some letters from, I believe, Defense Depot Ogden workers, who were saying that they’d had to move before, and if Defense Depot Ogden had been closed, they'd have to move again. They were concerned about that. Did you have any involvement with seeing the process with Defense Depot Ogden closing at all? TM: No, not really, other than I think there were a number of people that we picked up to do some of the McClellan workload. Defense Depot Ogden is a totally 12 separate activity from Ogden Air Logistics Center. I knew the people there, I knew the commanders, and the people that were working there. But as far as a decision to close them, like I told you earlier, I had to stay hands off on all that kind of stuff. So, once the decision was made, then we did what we could to help accommodate those folks whose jobs were in trouble. Other than bringing in the ones we could, that was about it. AK: That makes sense. I was reading that McClellan workload, that Hill Air Force Base had to compete for the workload against Boeing North America Inc. and the AAI Corporation. How much workload did Hill Air Force Base end up getting and what was that workload? TM: Well, it was the entire workload of the center, with a few exceptions. Whatever they had on aircraft, the composite workload and the component workload that was out there, essentially the entire workload of that air logistics center was distributed. Most of it came to us through the competition that was in the proposal, and the rest of it they found other homes for, or they tried to contract in place the things that just couldn't absolutely be moved, like a couple of radiation facilities and things that were very critical that we couldn't move. AK: About how many workers did you get from McClellan? TM: I wish I knew the number. It was multiple thousand, maybe. I don't know, maybe fifteen hundred. That's a wild guess. It was a long time ago and I can’t remember. AK: That wasn't a fair question, so no worries. I know it was a long time ago, but do you happen to remember some of the workload from McClellan that Hill Air Force 13 Base got? I know we already had F-16s. Was there any kind of missile work that came along as well? TM: Well, we had F-16s and missile work already at Hill. There was a significant amount of composite material workload to gain. They had a very good composite facility out there, and we picked that up and included it in our own. We also had an excellent composite facility, so that fit together very nicely. The other components that came, individual pumps, avionics systems and things like that, fit into that which we already had. So, it was a pretty smooth translation. That's one of the reasons we were able to compete. We had existing facilities that would take that workload and pick it up in a hurry and do it well. AK: So, you already had the infrastructure in place, okay. Could you tell me a little bit about what the Core Plus program was with the workload transition? TM: Well, the core workloads are typically those most important to the Air Force. In Hill's case it was the aircraft, F-16, C-130 aircraft, landing gear. We had landing gear overhaul facility, and missiles, obviously. We managed and maintained all the missiles. It's mostly the maintenance side and it's also the program management side. The folks that buy, they managed the program. Like landing gear, you've continually got to be buying replacement parts in satisfying landing gear demands out in the Air Force, those kind of things as well. So, kind of across the board. AK: Okay, what was the "Plus" side of that Core Plus program? TM: Well, any time you get more workload, you spread your fixed costs over a bigger base so you're more efficient. That's the plus part. When you can compete for 14 something above your core workload and you bring in several thousand hours’ worth of work that may not be considered core to the Air Force, but still well within the capability of Ogden ALC. You bring more workers in, of course, but you also spread your fixed costs over a bigger base and that improves your efficiency considerably. So, we went pretty aggressively at the things that both the plus side do. AK: Okay, so how did that program help to manage the workload coming in from BRAC 1995? TM: Well, as I said, we were pretty well set up facility-wise and capability-wise to take it in. It's just a matter of managing growth, you know, more equipment, more space, training people, if that were necessary, to do a new workload. So, it's a challenge to bring it in smoothly and not have an interruption and support your customers. But we were well positioned to take that workload in. We had a very good core of experienced, capable people that made that possible. AK: Since you were living in the community, did you get to see any of the transition of the McClellan workers into the community and how the community welcomed them or received them? TM: Just a few. I can tell you, though, that the feedback coming in was that the reception and the community was outstanding. They were glad to see them there. They were welcomed. I don't recall any instances where there was a serious issue with Californians coming to Utah and moving in. The real estate people were glad to see them, the grocery stores are glad to see them, 15 everybody. So were we, because we needed their expertise to do the work at Hill. AK: Absolutely. Did the Utah Defense Alliance have any part in helping with that transition? TM: Oh, sure. UDA's been involved in this thing from the beginning, and they still are. I mean, they are very active, strong supporters of Hill Air Force Base. Not just the Ogden Air Logistics Center, but the whole Air Force base. You know, fighter units, the test and training range, they are avid supporters of that whole facility, and they work every day very hard to keep it going. They’re good people. AK: They are. So, it looks like you retired in 2004. Were you around to see any of the beginning stages of BRAC 2005? TM: Yeah, I was around. I stayed another seven years in the area. We weren't quite as threatened, I didn't think, because there were three solid air logistic centers left. Nobody had the capability to pick up anybody else's work, and if it didn't get contracted out it was a little bit safer, given that there wasn't a lot of political pressure to close these things now. It was more of a focus on efficiency and effectiveness, I think, rather than, “Hey let's shut another one down.” The politicians actually hated it. I'll say "voter rage," but any time your local area is threatened with people losing jobs, obviously politicians are going to work very hard to protect it. They certainly didn't want to go through that again like they did the first one. AK: I'm assuming that the military side wasn't allowed to be very involved with BRAC 2005 again, is that correct? 16 TM: Yes, that's true. AK: Okay. Did you have the opportunity to work with Representative Bishop or even Representative Hansen? TM: Yeah, both of them. We spent time with them. They visited the base often. When I was there it was Senator Hatch and Senator Bennett, until he moved on. Senator Lee. They were around frequently, they kept in touch frequently, so they were strong supporters, obviously. AK: Were you part of any of the efforts to bring the F-35 to Hill Air Force Base? TM: No, that's the tactical command. That's the fighter unit. Other than doing anything we had to do with the physical facility to make sure that they were accommodated there, that's not something I got involved in at all. AK: Okay. Sorry about that, my computer was freezing, but I got what you said there at the end. TM: Short answer, no. AK: Thank you. I apologize, Zoom's always interesting. Well, is there anything else about the BRAC 1995 process that I haven't asked about that would be something you'd like to share? Any memories you have or involvement? TM: I think you covered it pretty well. You know, you got to be proud of the people that worked there. I mean, everybody from the senior management all the way down to the guys working on the aircraft line, knew what was involved. They knew what they had to do, and they gave it everything they had. It wasn't a fun experience, but it was certainly enlightening that when somebody feels that their 17 position, their jobs or their futures are affected, they're going to buckle down and do what they have to do. The ones at Ogden ALC certainly did that. AK: Why do you think that Hill Air Force Base was so important to Northern Utah, or Utah in general? TM: Well, it's got fantastic facilities. The logistic center has got outstanding facilities both in the maintenance areas for the aircraft, the missiles, the landing gear, avionic components and all that kind of stuff. Strong program management capability. The contracting and the other support activities are first rate. But beyond that, you've got an operational fighter wing, you've got a reserve unit, and you've got an outstanding test and training range. It's a whole package, and strong community support. It's as I said, it's a total effort that supports the Air Force, and I think they do it very well. AK: What would you say is the legacy of BRAC 1995 on Hill Air Force Base or Utah? Kind of how it impacted us? TM: Well, I don't know. I think it makes you aware that you're not totally secure at any one time. You got to stay focused. You got to stay effective. You got to stay efficient. You got to do your job, and just take the opportunity wherever you can to make improvements and to shine the center of the base, the surrounding area, as best you can to anyone that might be looking at it. They look at Hill and say, “Obviously we can't close that place for all those reasons.” AK: Absolutely. Okay, I think it was all of my questions, thank you. I really appreciate it. TM: Well, you're welcome. 18 AK: Thank you for your time, and if there's anything that comes up afterwards that you think of, once we hang up from the call, feel free to email us. We'd love to hear any other memories you wanted to share. TM: Okay, yeah, I'll do that. I'm sure you talked to a whole lot of people that have been involved in this thing. AK: Yes, but thank you so much though. It's been very valuable being able to interview you. TM: Well, you're welcome. 19 Alyssa Kammerman