Oral History Program Yolanda Lewis Interviewed by Kandice Harris 24 February 2025 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Yolanda Lewis Interviewed by Kandice Harris 24 February 2025 Copyright © 2026 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description Connecting Weber: History of the Cultural Centers oral history project documents the memories and history of the various cultural centers that were open at Weber State University. These centers included the Multicultural Center (later called the Center for Belonging & Cultural Engagement), Women's Center, Native American Cultural Center, Asian American and Pacific Islander Cultural Center, Pan-Asian Cultural Center, Black Cultural Center, and the LGBTQ Resource Center. The centers were closed in July 2024 due to state legislation. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Lewis, Yolanda, an oral history by Kandice Harris, 24 February 2025, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections and University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Yolanda Lewis conducted in the Stewart Library on February 24, 2025 by Kandice Harris. Yolanda discusses how she came to Weber State University and how she’s found community in Utah. She also discusses her experiences as the interim director of the Black Cultural Center and the closing of the cultural centers. Raegan Baird, the video technician, is also present. Note: Active listening, transitions in dialogue (such as “um,” “so” “you know,” etc.), and false starts in conversations are not included in transcription for ease of reading. All additions to transcript noted with brackets. KH: Today is February 24, 2025. We're with Yolanda Lewis. Kandice Harris is conducting the interview and Raegan Baird is the technician, and today we're gonna talk about the cultural centers. When and where were you born? YL: I was born in a small town—no [laughs]. I was born in Indianapolis, Indiana in 1969, so just a little while ago. KH: Would you talk a little bit about what it was like growing up? YL: Okay, so growing up for me in Indianapolis, I had fun. I look back and I have some good memories. Both my parents are still alive. I'm the oldest of three, and let's see, with my first cousins on my mother's side I'm number eight out of 18. I don't know what number I am on my father's side, nor do I know how many. There's more than 18 of us, so I don't know birth order, but there's a lot. Most of my dad's family is in Indianapolis, so I grew up around a lot of cousins. Every holiday we would kind of rotate to different uncles’ homes and see the family, so it was a lot of fun. 1 Growing up in school, my mom's a teacher, so, you know, we couldn't get in trouble. She worked in the same school district, so it was like, “If anybody says your name to me in a meeting, or if they come up to me and be like ‘Miss Hamiter, blah, blah, blah,’ no. Not allowed.” She knew everything we needed to do, all the things, so they’re kind of strict, I guess. But looking back I'm like "No, that was good, that was good," ‘cause I did the same thing with my kids when I had my kids too. It's like, “Oh, now I know why we had that rule. That's beneficial, it's good.” So no, I had a good time. I played the violin, played piano, took gymnastics lessons, played softball. KH: Sounds like a great childhood. YL: No, I had fun. KH: Good! Where did you go to school for higher education? YL: My undergraduate degree is from Howard University in Washington DC, which is an HBCU. So, a Historical Black College or University, that's what HBCU stands for. I went to Howard, and Howard just got a recognition and they’re R1 university now. We just got that, so I'm like "Yay, Howard!" I know, exciting, very exciting. Howard's a big school, so just about any famous Black American, most of them went through Howard at some point. Of course, Kamala Harris graduated from there. But yeah, there's a lot of famous people that went through the school. Great times at Howard as well. It was fun. KH: Would you be willing to share some of your memories from college? YL: Oh. No, they're all good. It was good for me coming from Indianapolis for one, I'll say. For the most part 'cause the high school that I went to, like junior high, high 2 school, all those schools were, you know, about 10, 12 percent Black as far as population goes, and I live in a predominantly white neighborhood. When I got to Howard it was all Black, and it was like, "Wow." It was nice, and it was like the—it wasn't the first time I had a black teacher ‘cause I had a couple, just a couple, going through K-12. But you know, just having professors that were like at the top of their field, top of their game was like, "Wow, okay," and they were not playing with us when it came to classwork and things like that. So, that was eye-opening. That was a different experience to see that, and they were like on our backs like, "You do this work." They would always call us by our last name, so it was like "Miss Hamiter, Miss Hamiter, Miss Hamiter." I'm like, "Wait, who does that?" And, you know, “Why weren't you in class on Friday?" "You noticed?" "Yes, where were you? You need to come to my office; you didn't do well on this test. You need to come to my office, see me." I'm like "…Okay. Yikes." They cared, and that was good. Looking back, you know, at the time of course I'm like, "Oh, professor is supposed to see me, I gotta go." But looking back, it was a good thing though. I do that now even with students that I have. I'm like, "I didn't see you in class on Friday, you okay?" I'm not as menacing as my professors were. I'm nice about it now, like, "Hey, you okay? You doing good? I missed you on Friday. You need help with your assignment? Come see me, I can help you." 3 My school sometimes people think is a party school. That's not my memory when I was in college, 'cause I was afraid to go home for having failed, 'cause my mom, like I said, was a teacher, my dad was a biochemist. Failure was not an option for me, so I didn't do that. I had a chance to play in the orchestra while I was there because I played in orchestra for the most part when I was in high school, all that. So, I got a chance to travel to Russia. KH: Oh, wow. YL: Yeah, had one trip overseas and it was to Russia of all countries. People are like, "Wait, you went to Russia?” I'm like, "I know." That was the summer after my freshman year, actually. Yeah, so that was cool. I mean, a lot of great memories. Of course, all of my best friends from college, I still have them. I'm in a group chat now. We were texting this morning, actually, about just random stuff. KH: Okay. Now that you work at Weber, and your experience at Howard, how do you think the experience was different between a HBCU school and something more like Weber? YL: It's different, for one. So, outside of it being in Utah, 'cause Utah... KH: Is its own thing. YL: Is its own thing, it’s just its own thing. Aside from that, Weber State would be considered a PWI, predominantly white institution, compared to an HBCU, right? So, there's that glaring difference. That's one. Weber State, to me, it's more like a commuter campus. I mean, there's just a couple of dormitories, right? Whereas at Howard there were several dorms, and most of lived on campus. Some lived off 4 campus too, you know, right around. But I mean, campus was our life for the most part. I have so many students that work full time while they go to school, so they just come here, go to class, and they go away, so they don't connect with anybody else, and that was just not my experience. I mean, just on a surface of like, that's a big difference. I see 'em like, "You guys don't even know each other." Like if somebody's absent, like, "Has anybody talked to Colby? Do you guys know him? Have you seen him? He hasn't been here in a week. Have you seen him? Do you know him?" Nobody. “I don't know.” I'm like, "I knew all my classmates. Like, we all knew each other." So, that's different. I mean, there’s just something really nice about being in a Black school as a Black person. Like, nobody's asked me about my hair, nobody needs to touch my hair. I mean, like we all understand each other, 'cause we have similar experiences in a lot of ways. Then of course we're all still very diverse at the same time too, ‘cause we had a lot of international students that would come, so there's that experience as well. I've got close friends that are from other countries, or you know, grew up in other countries. I don't know, it's just different. It's a different time too, ‘cause I'm 55, so technology has changed a lot since I was in college. Students now, their experience is just so different in a lot of ways. I'm ooh, I'm jealous of their technology they have now. I'm like, "Man, if I had the internet when I was in college do you know what I could have done? My papers would have been so much better. Like, wow." 5 Yeah, I would say just from that socialization standpoint, that's the glaring difference, at least to me, aside from the fact, you know, between a HBCU and a PWI. KH: What degrees do you have? YL: Ooh, okay, my bachelor's is in economics from Howard University and I have a master's in communication with an emphasis in education from Grand Canyon University. So, I have those two. KH: What is your relationship with Weber State? YL: What is it? I work as an adjunct communication professor, so I'm part time. It's a fancy word for part time, basically. That's what I do now. I came here just to do that, actually. Then I got tapped to do some other things once I got here. I'm like, "Ooh, okay sure, why not." KH: Okay, what other positions have you held? YL: I got the privilege of being the interim program manager for the Black Cultural Center. I did not plan to do anything like that, I didn't come here for that, I came to teach. I knew a couple of people, and they had said my name in front of other people, and I'm like, “Stop doing that.” I know Betty Sawyer, and I've worked with Betty Sawyer as a volunteer with her organization. I went with her—'cause there was an incident on campus— and I went with her to meet with Jessica Oyler about something. My plan, really, was just to sit and watch Miss Betty work. That was all I was gonna do. I was just gonna be a fly on the wall, Miss Betty's gonna say the things, I'm just gonna, "Oh wow, yeah. You go Betty." That was all I was doing. 6 But someone had said my name to Jessica Oyler, unbeknownst to me, and in her mind when Betty introduced me to her, she's like, "Oh wow, I was just talking about you and here you come to my office. Wow." I didn't know that, but she then told me is like, "You know, we're looking for somebody," because they initially offered the job to someone else who didn't take it and they're like, "We need somebody now to fill the role until we hire somebody. Are you interested?" I'm like, "No, I teach. I don't have time." Then they were like, "No, but really." Then Miss Betty says, "Well you know Miss Yolanda, blah, blah—" But I knew when Miss Betty talks you just, "Yes ma 'am. Yes, I know. Yes ma'am. Yes. Yes ma'am. Okay." She goes, "You think about it," and I’m like, okay, I already know what she wants me to do. I would like to say I prayed about it, but that's probably not the truth. It was more like Miss Betty, and I didn't want to face her again if I said no. Yeah, that's how I kind of fell into that role. KH: When did you start working with Weber State? YL: Spring of 2023. So, yeah, I've just been here a little while. KH: What started your desire to teach and to be into communication? YL: You know, I didn't want to teach. I have said I don't like kids. I've said that before. So, don't ever say what you’ll never do. Just in general, don't ever say that, because God will be like, “Yeah, right. Okay. We'll see.” I went to college to be— my major was economics, my minor was broadcast journalism, so I went to college to be a reporter and I wanted to work in television news. That was what I 7 wanted to do. I changed my mind about being a reporter while I was in school, ‘cause I worked on the TV station on campus, and I decided to go behind the scenes and do directing and producing, that kind of thing. So, I did that professionally right out of college. My husband is the breadwinner of our family, so he moved us around; I started off working in New York City. Nobody starts working in New York City in broadcast. Like, you don't start in the number one market. But I was moving backwards through TV markets, because I worked in New York and then we moved to Chicago, and Chicago's number three market. I'm like, "Why am I moving backwards the markets? Honey, you're not helping my job. I need to stay in New York. This is it. New York is the place." Then we moved to Cincinnati, and I'm like, “I don't even know what size market that is. I don't even care. Like, what? No, I'm not doing—” I was a member of the union; I didn't want to do that. So, my husband at one point was unemployed for a while, and I told you my mom's a teacher. My parents had been after me to be a teacher for a while. I'm like, "I'm not doing that 'cause they don't make any money. I don't even like kids. No." My husband was unemployed and my mom was like, “You know”—and my kids were still young too—and she said, "You know, you could be a substitute teacher, and then you could still come home after school, or be home shortly after your kids come home from school, or still pick ‘em up and still be a part of their lives and take ‘em to do the things." 8 I was like, "Eh, yeah." I mean, it paid more than retail, right? I didn't want to, like, “Eh,” 'cause retail. I did retail too at some point, but I started subbing and I liked it, and I was mad that I liked it. Like, what? This is actually kind of fun. I subbed and I just kept subbing, and then I figured out—'cause people always start off in, like, elementary schools; they think it's easy. Elementary school is hard, 'cause you really have to teach all the lessons. So, I'm trying to figure out how to do this math 'cause I'm like, “I don't know how to—How do you teach someone how to do this?” Like long division. They've changed it since I learned long division! I'm like, “Wait, that's not how you do it now?” So, all that, and I was like, “This is so hard.” Then I moved to junior high, and there’s people where it’s like, "Don't go to junior high, high school. They're scary, don't do it." I'm like, "But are they?" So, I went to junior high and it was better. I'm like, “Oh, this is a little bit easier, I don't have to work as hard,” 'cause I don't have to lecture. But they're a little sassy, and I'm like, “Okay, I'm not good for that level of sass, 'cause I'll say some things that's not appropriate for junior high kids to hear.” But that's my knee -jerk response, right? I'm like, “Okay, I got to go where it's safe for me.” So, I'm like, “Let me try high school,” because you can't like say shut up in junior high. They freak out over shut up, it's a bad word. I'm like, "No, it's not." So, I went to high school and there's no lecturing at all. It's just who's here attendance-wise, your assignments on the board, or I'm proctoring a test. I'm like, “I can do this.” I could just read and do other things and talk to kids and pick on 9 'em. [Kandice laughs] So, I stayed in high school—oh, I'm good at picking on kids. So, I'd be in high school and I’d just hang out with high schoolers, or we just talk. I’m like, "Hey, so how are you doing today? What's going on?" "Well, I hate my teacher. She's this." I'm like, "I mean, I know, but you know she's doing this for a reason. Here's the reason why you're doing this assignment, this is the purpose of it, blah, blah." They'll be like, "Oh. Can you be my teacher?" "Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm just here to make sure [unintelligible] keeps going on. She'll be back on Tuesday, it's fine." So, I just kept doing it. I’m like, “You know, this is actually kind of fun.” A friend of mine said to me—'cause she was working at a community college in Dayton, 'cause I was in Cincinnati—and she said, "You know, if you had a master's we could hire you.” I'm like, "Really?" She says, "We'd hire you." "I just need a masters? Okay, what do I get my master's in?" I'm like, "Well, my work experience is communication. I’m gonna do communication,” ‘cause I can just draw from my work experience and I can just use that so it's not wasted. Because teaching is something different, this way it's not wasted. I'm like, “Oh, I can do college. Then I can cuss.” Not that I cuss all the time, don't get me wrong, but I mean a word’ll fly out here and there. It's like, they're not gonna be like, "[Gasps] She said shut up.” 10 Anyway, that's what I did. I went back to college, did grad school in my 50s. Who does that? But I went back, and Weber State's my first job in higher ed and I'm having a blast. Like, I'm really enjoying it. My department is phenomenal, my colleagues in communication, they're amazing, like they've all embraced me well. They've helped me out, and I still go to them now. I'm like "Hey, can you help me with this?" and they give me assignments or ideas for assignments. I'm like, "Yes, oh this is great." It's been wonderful. Weber State's been great to me. I have no complaints, like real complaints you know, other than like, better food options on campus. But like, I live close, I can bring my lunch. I'm fine, I can't even complain about Weber State. It's been great. Great experience for me. KH: Great. So, what's your experience been like moving to Utah? YL: Oh, very different. It's very different. Literally culture shock. I have been the only Black person in the room before. Like, it's just an experience I think most Black people have had at some point in their life, so it's no big deal. But when I got to Utah, I'm like "Are there any Black people here? Are there any brown people here?" Like, where—? To me, there was like no diversity, and then I'm like, “Now I understand why there's so many issues here.” Because you just don't know, 'cause there's nobody here. Like, “Oh, it makes sense to me now.” So, it was eye-opening in a lot of ways, 'cause it helped explain some things. I'm not Mormon either, so I've learned some things about the Mormon culture, and like, "Oh. Ooh. …Oooh," you know. So, there's all those different things too. I would say it's definitely a culture shock, but it's really pretty. The mountains are gorgeous. I love that. Yeah, so that's different. I will miss that if I 11 ever leave. You know, like, “Oh.” Even when I actually travel away from Utah, it's like, "Wow, it's so flat here. There's nothing to see, there's no scenery, it's just flat." Like I was in Dallas last week, and I'm like, “It's just flat.” Yeah, I miss it. KH: Where did you find your community here? YL: I moved here in 2021 actually, to Utah in 2021, middle of the pandemic. I didn't come to Weber till 2023. So, in between that time I was really just at home. I mean, I'd go out a couple times, but it was just, you know, my husband and my daughters were here. So, I didn't really have community necessarily. My husband's a member of fraternity, and so the fraternities and sororities here—Black fraternities and sororities—have a group chat. We would attend events for the D9. We would go to a couple of events, so I would meet some women and find them. Eventually, some of them figured out what I do or what I've done and, you know, how I can contribute to the sorority, and like "Hey, you need to join. We could use you to do these things." I'm like, "No, it's fine. I can just come to the events and participate, it's fine. I don't have to be initiated. It'll be fine." "No, you need to join us." I'm like, "But do I?" Then I thought about it and I'm like, you know, that's my community. I do need to join, because here I need to be around educated Black people. I need to be about people that are about social action and just the issues that Black Americans deal with in the country. At this point in my life, I need to be a part of the solution, and so how do I contribute? Looking at the sorority, it's like they've already got this coordinated effort to fight against or to do 12 whatever. I'm like, instead of me being out here by myself trying to rally whatever, I can just join this group that's already doing the work and just add my expertise to that. That's why they're like, “No, that's exactly what we want you to do.” So, my community, I'm a member of Delta Sigma Theta sorority. There are other sororities here in the area too, but we all huddle together a lot and coordinate and support each other on different events and so forth too. The Divine Nine is my community in a lot of ways. Then of course my department too, 'cause I do talk to my colleagues here just as communicators and professional teachers too. I do talk with them and be like, “Hey, what are we doing? How do we do this? How do you get better at that?” They help me kind of level up my teaching and my skill set, so that's my community, yeah. KH: Okay, great. I mean you kind of talked about this a little bit, so if there's anything you want to add, how do you feel you're serving your community in your position on campus? YL: I am the Black professor. I said this to my class this semester the first day, 'cause I realized a lot of them have never ever had a Black teacher, and I know that. I said that to them, and they're just kind of like [looks side to side]. I'm like "It's okay, I know. You're in Utah. I know where I am." They're like, “Oh, ha ha”—you know, they relax a little bit. I'm like, “Yeah.” So, for me just showing up in a lot of ways, 'cause it's exposure. I'm no different than any other professor. I might be a little more animated or, you know, you can tell I'm just a little quirky goofy, but that's just me, really. But in essence when you find out that like, “Oh, no, they're just as tough as any other professor,” ‘cause I 13 am tough. I'm easy, but I'm tough at the same time, so I don't know how that works, but it just works. KH: You found the balance. YL: Yeah, 'cause I'm like “No, you better get your assignment in.” And it’s like, "Okay well, yeah. No, that's good. You did good. You can do better, but you did good." 'Cause I want to encourage them too, ‘cause, I don't know, I think kids are soft nowadays. You have to balance how you critique them so they're not going home crying. ‘Cause, you know, I went home crying a few times and I'm fine, but kids nowadays can't handle that, so you have to be softer but still get it across. KH: You mentioned that you were the interim director of the Black Cultural Center. Would you talk about what that experience was like? YL: Crazy. [Laughs] 'Cause I didn't know what I was doing, and I said that. I was like, "I don't even know what to do. How do I do that? I didn't come here for that. Like that's not—my brain doesn't function in that kind of capacity to think outside the box to do things." They're like "No, no, no, just be there for the students right now. Just be there and maybe help them organize some events that they want to do." I'm like, “Okay, I can do that.” So, it was a little hard at first, but I'm like, “I can be there for students, so how do I do that?” I'm just like, “I'm just in the room. I go into the office and I will just be there.” I had to be there at 7 a.m. for myself just to get my own work done, ‘cause after they started coming in I could get nothing done. So, there's that. I would come in at 7 a.m., so I know the janitors and all the people, 'cause I was there that early in the morning. 14 But you know, just showing up for the kids and just talking to them, like I did with the high school kids. Just talk to them. "So how are you doing today? You okay? How are classes going? Okay, what are we doing? How are your professors treating you? How are you doing with that? Okay, they said what to you? Okay, but what did you do? Like, okay, let's talk about the situation." It was just helping them talk through whatever they were going through, helping them balance their life, their social life, and school. I'm like, "Okay, listen baby, you need to go to school. You don't have time for that. What are you do—go to class. Why are—I know you like talking, go to class." So, it was just like being a mom or an auntie to a lot of students. That was my job, in essence. "Okay but we gotta have a party. What are gonna do? We need to get together, ‘cause y 'all need to know each other. Let's get together." So, it was organizing them. Then it dawned on me that we have Black faculty and staff here at the university. Well, where are they? Some of Black students don't even know that we exist. I'm like, “You know what,” 'cause I didn't know we existed. I gotta find us. I went on a search, and I'm like, “Okay, where are we?” I knew Doctor Corbin in my department, ‘cause she's there of course, but there's others. I went on a mission to find others, 'cause the University of Utah has Black faculty and staff organizations, so I'm like, “Why don't we have that here? Let's start it. Let's go.” I organized that, so we have Ujima, which is ideally—well, it started off as Black faculty and staff here, and then we changed the name. House Bill 261. Our focus is for Black faculty and staff, but anybody of course can join. So, I organized the Black faculty and staff here so we have a little group, and we're 15 just a social group really, just to have community here on campus so we know each other. Then eventually we would like to be able to serve our students too so they know us, but we haven't gotten there yet. I'm not a social director; I'm learning. It's hard for me, and I've told people like, “This is what I want, but I don't know how to go about doing that.” That's been part of my role, is just like figuring out things and finding out who I am and what I do. This is what—I bring the fun. I need somebody else to coordinate it, but I'm just gonna show up and bring the fun. I had to realize that's what I do, and I'm okay with that. They figured it out, so they hired Maryan of course. I told the hiring committee like, "You gotta find somebody quick, 'cause this is not what I do. I'm fine to hold the spot, but please get somebody who can do this job." So, Maryan's here now and she's amazing. She's amazing. When I look at what she does, I'm like, “Oh my gosh, yes. I wouldn't have thought of that.” I'm so glad that she's here, 'cause she's so much better at it than I am. She's so much better. KH: So, how long were you the interim director? YL: I started in October… I think just through Black History Month, just through the end of February. So, just a few months, yeah. KH: Had the space already been decided? Were you part of that? YL: No, I had no idea what was going on with that. The space was already set up, and Adrian Andrews was still here at the university, so she had already ordered furniture and those kinds of things and like set everything up. I just kind of came in, and I was actually physically there so they could bring the furniture and kind of 16 help them finalize, 'cause she had left the university before I started doing that. Just little things like, you know, the door doesn't shut all the way ‘cause it's not hung, and the lights doesn't work, this outlet’s not working, because I was in the space to help them kind of facilitate getting that done. So, that was also part of my job too, like, I could do that, right? Let's get somebody, and I had to be there so somebody could come and fix it or tell them when it'd be done, so I was able to do that. I don't know, it's not interior design, but you know. I was able to do that. KH: Sorry, let me think of how to ask this question. In the four months that you were there, what were the hours of the center? Were you there like all day, you were there for like half the day…? YL: Yeah, that was a hard thing to do because I already had a three-course load, and I think I was limited by how many hours I could work because I already had three classes. I'm already part-time. You know, 22 hours I think is what they calculated. Initially, I was only gonna be there for eight hours a week, and then I went back to Jessica. I was like, "Jessica, I don't know what I'm gonna do in eight hours. Like, that's just not enough time to make any kind of impact." Eight hours is not enough time for me to even be in the space for students to even find me. What, am I just gonna go to work one day a week? Like, I know what you want me to do, but I can't do that in eight hours’ time, like it’s not gonna work. So, she's like, “You know, you're right.” She made it so that I could stay 20 hours a week. I'm like, okay I can do that. Then I think I did four hours, six hours, something like that, Monday, Wednesday, Fri—'cause I taught on Tuesday 17 Thursday, so I had Monday, Wednesday, Friday scheduled, or maybe it was the opposite. I can't remember now; it's been a year or so. But I worked it out so I was in the center on my days that I wasn't teaching, and then on days that I was teaching I still would pop in for a little bit, just to see who was there. “What are you doing? Why aren't you in class? I know you have class, why are you here? Go to class, get out. Come back when you're done.” You know, so I would pop in just for that reason, 'cause I knew students would try to hang out 'cause they knew I wasn't gonna be there. They thought, "Well, she's in class, she's not coming." I'm like, [tilts head and hums]. I show up. KH: So, the Cultural Center would probably be open the entire day, but you wouldn't necessarily be in there. YL: I wasn't, yeah. I want to say I may have had them like officially open it at eight, 'cause like Shepherd Union will open the space for me if I wasn't there. So, from like eight to maybe five. KH: Okay. Do you remember what kind of events you would do for that short period that you were there? YL: I know right, the short period. I think I managed to—by the end of the semester in December, we had an event. What did we do? We were in the bowling alley. We had an event like that night at the—I want to say it was the last night at the end of the semester. We had bowling and we took over the arcade space, and it had music, like Jody Perkins was still here. He was always our DJ, so he had music, 18 and we got food and just kind of hung out and had some students come. So, it was good. It was good. I was trying to get BSU, which is our Black Scholars United, trying to get that back up and running and, you know, that's still a hard thing, because I'm like, where do I find Black students? Like, I know they're here, how do you find them and get them to come and send them information? 'Cause it's a commuter campus, and it's hard to get students to come back here after noon. It's like, “Okay, but what are you doing at six o'clock on a Friday? What are you doing at six o'clock on Thursday?” They're all at work, and so it's hard. It's hard to get students on this campus to come back after noon. So, I'm like, ugh, it's a struggle, it was a real struggle. So, that one event, and then when it came to Black History—I want to say Maryan started I think in January, so she came in and really had to hit the ground running with Black History Month. I think the only thing I managed to pull off for Black History Month was a D9 panel discussion to introduce what is D9, what are the Black fraternities and sororities, and what do they do. I had members of all those organizations—not all of them, but most of the organizations that are here in Utah, had them come and talk about their organization. How do you get in, or just like what do we do, just to expose the students, ‘cause lot of them didn't know. They had no idea. I'm like, “Oh, let's start the conversation.” So, I managed to do those two. It's so sad now I think about it. I only did two things, two major events. KH: I mean, that's not bad in a four-month time period though. 19 YL: I know right, yeah. KH: Especially where it wasn't your job to begin with, and it wasn't... I think you did amazing. YL: It wasn't, but it was. But yeah, it was hard. You know, I tried. I tried, and looking back I think there's probably some things I could have done better. But I didn't know, and I told 'em I didn't know, but I still was open to doing it ‘cause I know the student needs somebody to see, and they more than anything need just a body there to come and just talk to the kids. I'm like, I can do that. I can talk to students. I can talk. KH: Have you worked with the cultural centers much since you’ve stepped down as the interim director? YL: Oh yeah, for sure. Just about any event that Maryan will put on, I try to go as much as I can. Sadly, this month was Black History Month, and there are a lot of events have been happening while I'm in class. I'm like, "Maryan I have class, you can't—you got to do it when I'm not in class. Tuesday, Thursday, or after 12:30. You can't do it when—" She's like, "Girl." I’m like, “I know, I know. Do what you can.” But no, I really do try to support, but not just the Black Cultural Center. Like, I try to go, you know, the Hispanic Cultural Center, Native American, I try to do all of them, because they were all very supportive of me when I came on board too. Even though I was just there for a little bit of time, they were all very supportive of me, so I'm like, “Oh, absolutely.” But it's also important for all of us just to support each other, 'cause 20 we're here by ourselves, just representing Black and brown people in Utah, right? I'm like, “No, we're all in this together.” If I can make it, I'm there. So, I try to support as much as I can when I can. There's a few events happening this week that I'll actually be there. Sabrina Fulton’s coming Wednesday and there's a gala they're having I think Thursday night this week, so I plan to be there, I'mma drag my husband. He doesn't know it yet, but I'm making him come Thursday night. He's gonna be like, "What?" I'm like, "Yeah, you're coming with me, ‘cause I talk about you, but nobody knows you really do exist. I got to show them that you're a real person, it’s not Big Bird and Snuffleupagus." You know, so that’s how we do it. KH: Are there any other favorite memories that you have with the cultural centers, either the Black or any of the other ones? YL: It's always just been fun for me. I like to hang out and talk and get to know the students, and the workers there, my coworkers there, the other program managers. It's fun to kind of get to know each other and share our experiences too. I look back and it was a good time. I had a good time, again, talking to students, and learning about other cultures too. There was a powwow, you know for Native Americans, that they had, and I've missed it and I'm gonna miss it again. This year it's coming up in March and I'm gonna be out of town. I'm like, “No!” I know, I'm so sad, 'cause I've never been to a powwow before. But I look back, no, I had a good time, and I learned a lot, ‘cause I don't know everything, and I know that. It's fine. But yeah, it's just the camaraderie and the friendships 21 that I've developed, both with students and then the other staff. It's been good. I got to know a lot of people on campus. KH: How has the cultural centers impacted or influenced you in your time at Weber? YL: Influenced me? I'm actually grateful that we had them. I'm really, you know, upset that they're gone. 'Cause I think it's hard for students to find community in a lot of ways, and because the centers are gone, it's like, “Where do I find my community now?” It's harder, I think, to find us. You know, some of the culture center heads are still here on campus, but they're in different roles now, so it's like, “Well how do you—?” Like students later on in years to come, how are they gonna find them, right? So, I think it's hard, from that standpoint, for students to find community. It's just so important to them, ‘cause it makes a difference as far as, you know, how they feel about their college life. So, that's hard. They're also necessary because students need to understand their culture. Not just Black students need to understand Black culture, but other students need to understand what Black culture is too. Like, you know, why is it not okay to touch my hair? Like, don't do that. Like, why…? I don't—no. But you need to understand why, and where do you find that information? You're like, “You can go to the Black Culture Center and find out,” right? But you can't do that now. It's also maddening because the House bill did not dictate that we needed to get rid of them, but the university's decided to do it anyway. It's like, really? You didn't have to. You went too far; you didn't have to do that. I think the students really need it. Not just the students that identify, but I think all the students need it, just so we're a place to gather. We need a central— 22 'cause like, where do students gather now when they're on campus? Where do you go to gather to find just anybody, not just a Black student or white, just where do you go to even find a friend, right? Where do they go? I don't know. So, I feel like the cultural centers were a good place to start, and you could go with a friend who would go in there and find, you know. KH: Is there anything else that you want to share about your feelings about the closing of the cultural centers? YL: They shouldn't have closed. They really shouldn't have closed. I mean, I'm sure there's others that agree with me and there's just as many that disagree with me. I've heard this that just because the sign on the door said Black Cultural Center, some people read it to mean that they couldn't come in, and nowhere on the door or the window did it say non-Blacks are not allowed. We never said that, we never implied that, and even the other culture—we never, that was not—like, if you discount yourself, that's on you. We never said you couldn't come in. It's just about Black culture. Come in. Like, we don't care. I think Black people as a community, we've been the most inclusive of social groups, right? I'm like, “I don't...” [Sighs] I feel like that's one of the reasons why they got rid of all the cultural centers, because they checked themselves out. They're like, “Oh, it says Black culture, means I can't go in.” No, that's not. It’s a space of learning, it's a space of community, that's what it was about. It wasn't about keeping you out. I think sadly it's gone, so where do you learn Black culture now if you're not taking a Black history course? How much longer can we even do that now? I don't know. We've got a new administration, so even all that's changing, or it's 23 under attack, sadly. I wish we didn't—I mean, we're just missing out. I think we're really missing out on a place to find community, not just, again, for the students that identify as that, but for anybody. I wish we'd rethink it. I don't know if I'll live long enough to see that, for people to come around. KH: How do you think students are reacting to the closing of the cultural centers? YL: I don't even think they know. I honestly don't think some of them know. 'Cause it happened over the summer, and a lot of students are not on campus, and so they came back and they were like, “Oh wait, that's peer mentoring? Oh, what's happening?” Students don't read, they just don't read. If it wasn't on TikTok, they didn't hear about it. I mean, it's kind of sad. Some of them came back to campus that fall and were like, "Okay, what happened?" Then some were like, "Oh, we had a Black Culture Center?" "Baby, yes we did. Where have you been?" So, yeah, I don't think students—and I feel like it was strategic in having them close over the summer to begin with. ‘Cause had they closed like in February, students would have known it was happening and they would have had a chance to respond. By it happening over the summer, they didn't have a chance to organize and respond. So, yeah, I don't think they know. KH: How do you envision students will be helped or hindered under the restructured department? YL: I think the help is still there, but you've got to seek it out. I think students at this age are learning how to advocate for themselves and finding information, and they just don't know how to do that, or they don't know to do that. But that just 24 comes I think with the age, so any campus, because there's always resources on campuses to do things, right, but students just don't know it's there. The cultural centers were intentional about reaching students. We would find them and be like, "Hey, did you know you can get psychological help over here? You can go get tutoring over here. You can get this, you can go get help over there." We were intentional about finding and letting them know you can get this help. I do this now with my students, ‘cause I recognize that they're not gonna read and they're not gonna go and get the help that they need. I tell them. There's four or five pages at the end of my syllabus devoted just to resources that are available on campus. I mean, yeah, they can click it in Canvas, but I also give them a physical copy. I’m like, “Here.” ‘Cause they may not come to me and say, “I need help with child care, I need help with food insecurity,” and what have you. You may be comfortable asking me for that help, but I'm like, “Here, it's available to you.” I feel like students are just not—it's here. It's here. But you got to find it. You got to be intentional. I think Student Success right now, I mean, there's so many things happening under the umbrella of Student Success, and it's all there. But are students reading it to find it, is the question. It's like, “How do we get them?” Their social media is great, I think they do some cool things on there. I follow, of course, student success and see their cool videos they put out, but if students aren't following the account, they're not gonna know. I think it's gonna be hard always, but again I think it's just that age group, because they're learning. They're still learning. Bless their hearts. 25 KH: Yes. I was an undergrad over 20 years ago, and I remember the only thing I knew where it was, was the employment office, because that was the one place that I used on campus. I don't know that I knew any other ones that existed. So, I think at least starting at my generation moving forward, they just don't know about those things. YL: Yeah, I know, you just don't know unless somebody tells you, "Oh, did you know, you need help finding a job, there's a whole career center. They can help you with your resume and help you with your LinkedIn or whatever. Go see those people." The Writing Center, I don't think we had a writing center on campus when I was in school, but by the time my daughters went to school I'm like, "You have a Writing Center? You mean I can just [slides paper forward on table and points at it] ‘Help me.’ Wait, what?" We didn't have that on campus in college. I'm like, "Wait, you can do that? And it's free? What?" You know, so even that. I'm thinking about making it an assignment to go to the Writing Center, ‘cause I teach public speaking and a couple other classes. I'm thinking about next semester I'm like, “You're gonna go to the Writing Center, have them help you with your outline for your speech. Show me that you did it, 10 points,” right. Or, “Go over here and get help with this, 10 points,” or something just to make them find the services, 'cause they're all here and they've paid for them through their fees. I'm like "Go. There's people ready, willing, and able to help you on this campus, but you got to go find ‘em. They're waiting for you." Subject librarians especially, because they had to do research for my class. I'm like, "Go see the subject librarians. They're sitting there. These people 26 got degrees in this stuff, go. They know all the things. They know everything. Go ask them, ‘cause they're just sitting there twiddling their thumbs ‘cause you don't go see them. Go find ‘em. Go see my friends." 'Cause I know a couple of them too. I met so many people in this job when I was interim program manager. I met so many people. So, that's been helpful. That's one of the benefits I've had; I met a lot of people on campus. KH: That's great. Why is community important? YL: For mental health. It matters, yeah, for mental health. I mean, we didn't talk about mental health when I was their age in college, like that wasn't a thing. I mean, for us mental health was, you know, schizophrenia, or like something extreme. We didn't think of it as self-care necessarily, and so it's been kind of redefined and shaped nowadays. But no, it's about community. I mean, mental health, it's necessary. ‘Cause I can find people that are like-minded, I can find people that can help me get through, you know, “I got this student that's doing X, Y, Z. What did you do? ‘Cause this kid's driving me crazy.” Or, "This kid's gonna fail, and they don't need to fail. How do I help them?" Or, "This student has this issue, what do I do?" You know, I need community to help me with that. Then just to hear about my students’ struggle, I mean, I'm hearing this and this is impacting me too. Like, “Oh this kid told me—I'm stressed about this kid, are they alive and well? What is going on with this kid? Ohhh,” and they're not my child, but how do you release that and still sleep at night, right? Because I'm like, they got moms and dads too. Community helps me deal with that. So yeah, I'd say mental health, and then good for laughter. 27 KH: Yes. What do you think we as individuals can do to foster relationships and meet the needs of the underserved communities of Weber? YL: That's a really good question. 'Cause I'm the kind of person that I'm gonna talk to you anyway, but I mean that's just me. That's always been my personality. Well, not always, I had to develop it later in life, but I'm gonna talk to you. So, I think you have to be intentional, ‘cause I have students like in my classes, and some students never talk in class or what have you, right? Well, public speaking you have to talk. But I have students [who] don't participate in discussions or what have you, and you have to be intentional to make a connection with them. They're in my class, and I make sure that I'm like, "Hey, how you doing? You enjoying class? Is it working—Why are you taking public speaking, like did you need it?" You know, or just like, “Why'd you pick this class? Why did you pick me, even?” But you've got to be intentional, I think. That's gonna help. Then when you're dealing with, you know, somebody that's other than you and you don't have any experience with that, do your own research. Like, Google is your friend. You can Google why you should never touch a black person's hair and you'll find a response. Why you should never throw a black girl in the pool ‘cause she's not gonna want to get her hair wet, she will fight you. Like, you can Google that. You know what I mean? There's some cultural things like, “Don't get my hair wet, ‘cause I'm telling you.” But you know, we got to be intentional, I think. There's some things we can learn from each other, but I feel like be intentional, and not asking us to change. Like, I am who I am. I cannot change the fact that I'm Black, nor would I want to, 28 so why would you want me to change? Do you know what I mean? Like Doctor Krovi came to my class and spoke this morning to share his experience as a public speaker. One of the things I had him talk about was—‘cause he has a thick accent, right, 'cause he's born and raised in India. He took some classes at one point to get rid of his accent, and then he was like, “You know what, but wait. This is who I am, why am I taking classes—why was I even told to take a class to anglicize my accent? This is a part of who I am.” He was like, “No, I'm not doing that.” Of course, now you hear him talk, you can still hear his accent. He said, "All I did was just slow it down. So, I'm still me, I just slowed it down so you can understand, but it's still the same accent." I'm like, yeah. Don't ask us to change to fit your narrative or your box of what you think we are. Let me be me and just accept that, but also be intentional. Stop trying to change me. Not all of us do the same thing. Don't assume that just because we're Black we all play basketball, we all can dance, like that's not true. I mean, a lot of us know who our fathers are, and they are very much a part of our lives, so don't make those assumptions. I'm not an angry Black woman, you know, all the stereotypical things. Yeah, be intentional. KH: I like that, thank you. I have one more question, and then in case there's anything else you want to share after that. So, you talked about starting the Black Faculty Staff Association. Would you talk a little bit about that process? Like, did you have to get approval from the university? Was just something that you grouped together? 29 YL: I did throw it together, like basically yes, I did [laughs]. I had help. I think I started with Doctor Corbin and asked her like, "Okay, who else do you know?" Then I’d met some other people like Elizabeth Hammond in the international office and I'd asked her. I'm pretty sure between all of us, like, we went through the website and would look at pictures of staff and faculty and be like, “Oh,” and just jot down names and emails and I just created a list. The university does—well, we have employee resource groups, so I'm like, “Okay, we'll just be an employee resource group. That's what we're gonna do.” So, I had to go through HR to be like, "Okay, we're gonna start this group. Here's our mission, here are our officers." We had to have officers and certain, I guess, how do you change officers, some rules that we had to have already in place. I think they had started this years ago, and somebody forwarded that information to me. I was like, "Oh it's already—oh, well let's just cut this out and we'll take the top and submit that." So, that's what we did. Yeah, so we're an employee resource group, so we're on the website, so if a new employee comes, they'll see Ujima is there and there's a mission statement there for it, so anybody can reach out and join. But we're also pretty good spies and looking out for who's here. I was at something last week and I was like, "Hi, and you, who are you?" You know, in a nice way. I’m like, "Do you know we have Ujima? Are you a part of that?" ‘Cause I'm like, I know everybody on the list, and I’m just like, "What's your name? I don't have you on my list; let me add you to my list." So, you know, we find—and people email me like, “There's a new person over there.” 30 I'm like, “What?” [Mimes writing] Email, and we [spreads hands], “Welcome!” ‘Cause you're automatically in it whether you want to be or not. I just assign you. But yeah, so the employee resource group I had to go through HR to establish the employee resource group, and then I just email people, and again we're just a social group. We had a happy hour in October I think, early October. We're supposed to be doing something else, but I'm not good at planning events, and I told them that. I'm like, "I don't need to be your chair, I'm not good at that." They're like, "No, but it's your thing." I'm like, “Ah, fine, whatever.” But we need to have more events, and I'm a social butterfly but I'm not social coordinator. They keep trying to make me something I'm not. KH: You mentioned that the name changed. What is the new name of the resource group? YL: It's just called Ujima, which means collective work. So, we have collective work, yeah. KH: What language is Ujima from? YL: You know... KH: [Laughs] Sorry, didn't mean to put you on the spot. YL: No, I'm just like it's… I think it's Swahili. Swahili, collective work, yeah. KH: Okay, great. Is there anything else you would like to share? YL: I don't know. Did I cover everything? KH: Yes, you did. 31 YL: And I gave you more than you needed, I'm sure. KH: No, you gave me exactly what I wanted. YL: Oh, exactly [laughs, makes face at camera]. KH: I love it when people will just start talking and just tell me everything and it's like, “That's perfect!” YL: “Yay, she went there,” yes. You know, at one point you asked me what positions have I held, and I only told you that I teach and then the Black Cultural Center. I'm also a volunteer coach with the speech team here at Weber. We have a speech and debate team. I do that as well, and I'm like, "I didn't even mention that." We're fifth in the nation, by the way. KH: Congratulations, that’s awesome. YL: We're gonna try to keep that, ‘cause our national competition is the week after spring break. We're hoping we can climb up, ‘cause I think the year before we were sixth and now we're fifth, so hopefully we're gonna go fourth or third or something. We're a small but mighty team. Yeah, Mark Galaviz is our coach, our official coach, so I’m volunteer coach with him. KH: Would you talk a little bit about what the debate team does, like the sort of activities they do, or competitions? YL: It's heavy. It's hard. I actually did speech when I was in high school and college, I was on the speech team in high school and college. I attended—the speech team has like a thing at the end of the year, just for the parents to come and say this is what we did, we won all these awards, and show off all of our hardware, right. I went because one of my students was on the team, and I was like, "There's a 32 speech team here? We have one, what? Okay." So, I went to the thing, and I was like, “Oh.” Then Mark was like, "If anybody wants to volunteer, I can always use help." I was like, "Really?" I volunteered, and nobody's approached him ever, and I was like, “I did this in high school and college, of course,” you know. So, the speech team, we do speech and debate, but we also have a separate debate team too, so there's two different things. Our debate, we do IPDA. I don't know what IPDA stands for, but in essence is layman's debate. The students there will get a resolution, and they have either affirmative or negative; they have to argue whatever side they get. So, sometimes they're arguing something that they're wholeheartedly against, but they have to argue for it, or what have you. Those topics change by the round, whereas the debate team I think they get a topic and that's what they debate for the entire season, so we don't do that. Yeah, so ours changes all the time. We have three levels of debate for that, like beginner, intermediate, and advanced, basically those levels. Then the speech part is there's several different categories, so students can compete in like informative or persuasive speeches that they actually write themselves, communication analysis, where they take an object and they do a communication analysis and like what it communicates, that kind of thing. Then we do dramatic things, like dramatic interpretation where they'll take maybe a scene from a play and dramatically interpret that scene. There's dramatic duo, so you can have a partner and you could do a scene together. I did that in college 33 with a partner of mine, and we're still in contact to this day. I did informative as well in high school, ‘cause I'm still kind of nerdy, so I did those two things. We have poetry, I'm thinking of… Yeah, so there's dramatic interpretation, duo, there's poetry, prose, where you can take just some literature and put it together—'cause it could be different types of literature—and it can be themed. I think one of girls is doing something about… Now I'm drawing a blank. But it can be themed so you can put different things together. So, maybe let's say immigration, and so one poem could be about immigration specifically, another poem could be about immigration from the standpoint of an immigrant, and another poem would be from somebody who's not an immigrant, and putting those together to have a theme throughout with poetry or prose. There's all kinds of things. It's really cool because our students that are on the team are really smart and really with it. Like, these kids know things. They keep up with current events, ‘cause you have to with debate, and I am in awe and also encouraged about the future when I see them when they're doing the things that they're doing. 'Cause just some of things that come out, like how they feel about different issues, and I'm like, "Really? Wow. [Places hands on chest and exhales] I’m so proud," you know? It's really inspiring. Not just our students, but when I go, 'cause I have to judge when I'm traveling with the team, and I'm just hearing other students in other rounds and I'm just like, "Wow you thought—? Like, wow." Because these kids have a voice, and doggonit they are voicing their opinions and their perspectives on all the 34 things, and it's beautiful. Yeah, I'm definitely encouraged. So, I think that does it, right? KH: Yeah. Okay, thank you so much for your time. YL: Yeah, you are welcome. I gave you more than enough. What was that, an hour? KH: It was perfect. 35