Oral History Program Tylar Hall Interviewed by Lorrie Rands 11 February 2025 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Tylar Hall Interviewed by Lorrie Rands 11 February 2025 Copyright © 2026 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description Queering the Archives oral history project is a series of oral histories from the LGBTQ+ communities of Weber, Davis and Morgan Counties of Northern Utah. Each interview is a life interview, documenting the interviewee’s unique experiences growing up queer. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Hall, Tylar, an oral history by Lorrie Rands, 11 February 2025, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections & University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Tylar Hall conducted on February 11, 2025 in the Stewart Library with Lorrie Rands. Tylar talks about growing up queer in Northern Utah and their struggles with physical and mental health issues. Raegan Baird, the video technician, is also present. Content warning: Suicide ideation, sexual assault Note: Active listening, transitions in dialogue (such as “um,” “so” “you know,” etc.), and false starts in conversations are not included in transcription for ease of reading. All additions to transcript noted with brackets. LR: Thank you. Today is February 11, 2025. We're in the Stewart Library doing an oral history interview for Queering the Archives Oral History Project with Tyl— TH: Tylar. LR: It's exactly the way it's spelled. TH: It's a little funky. I've had teachers call me Taylor, Kyler for some odd reason, I've gotten it all. LR: Okay, so Tylar Hall. TH: Yeah. LR: It's around 11:00 o'clock in the morning. I'm Lorrie Rands conducting, and Raegan Baird is on camera. We'll start by doing our little introductions. My pronouns are she/her and I identify as lesbian. RB: Mine are she/her and I'm straight. TH: My pronouns, I go by any pronouns, and I like to use the term queer just because I have a wide spectrum. LR: Okay. I totally appreciate that. Which pronouns do you prefer? 1 TH: I prefer they/them if anything, but any really work. LR: Okay. Well, thank you, I appreciate that. Okay. I'm going thank you again for your willingness to do this and to share your story and to put it out there. Let's just start with when and where you were born? TH: I was born in Layton, Utah in September 20, 2004. I lived in West Point until I was about three years old, and I have lived in Roy since then with my mother. It's just me and her and, well, people have added on, but it's been me and her for the most part since I was born. LR: Okay. Has your father ever been a part of the picture? TH: He was lightly there. He was there every once in a while; he would pop in for maybe a couple months, and then he’d be gone for two years, maybe a year, and then he’d pop back in. I stopped officially communicating with him as of two years ago. LR: Okay. You said that other people would pop in and out? How did your family dynamic change as you got older? TH: It was primarily me and my mom. My mom did date around trying to find someone to kind of be that father role for me, so eventually my mom met my stepdad when I was around 11 or 12 years old. Then he brought in his daughter, which is my stepsister. LR: Okay, so instant family when you turn 11, or when you're around 11? TH: Yeah. LR: I know I've kind of skipped around a little bit, and we'll go back, but I’m curious how that instant change affected how you interacted with your family? 2 TH: It changed dramatically. I had just gotten diagnosed with type 1 diabetes around that time as well, so I had a very mental break. I kind of went into a deep depression, anxiety, so I was put into a mental hospital for some time. I thankfully got out of it, and I'm thankfully where I am now, much better. But it's still a little harsh sometimes, especially with like my stepdad. We just don't see eye to eye. But he loves my mom and he absolutely adores her, so I'll keep up with the punching bag every once in a while. LR: Okay. Let's go back a little bit to growing up in Roy. Do you have any memories of West Point at all? TH: I don't. I was three when we moved in the house that we lived in, so all my memories are in that house. LR: Okay. I was wondering about that. As you were growing up with just you and your mom, what were you taught about gender roles? TH: My mom, she never really taught me gender roles. Of course, like as I grew up and started to kind of mature, she explained puberty, she explained kind of the basic fundamentals of that. But other than that, it was kind of like, you're yourself, you identify as you, you know. You don't need to fit into that gender stereotype, you don't need to fit into that male, female, or any sort of box that people have to put you into. LR: As you've gotten older, how have you appreciated that? TH: I've appreciated it immensely. I went through a very hard time, especially in junior high, with figuring out myself. I tried to fit in so many other boxes and trying to be that stereotypical person that other people saw me as. Now, with me being queer 3 and just being who I am and who I want to be and not putting a label on it, really helped broaden my spectrum on how my mom raised me, and really helped me understand how if she didn't raise me the way she was, I probably would be a totally different person and wouldn’t have been able to figure myself out as quickly as I did. LR: Right. That's amazing. Kind of on that same vein, what were you taught about sexuality growing up? TH: My mom, she had a very harsh time with that. I was sexually assaulted when I was like, around seven years old. As soon as that happened, my mom was open, she was an open book. Any questions I had, anything that I needed to talk to her about, if I had a question about sex, if I had a question about sexuality, if I had a question about if I like boys, girls, if I liked anyone. She was very open from that point forward, because she realized that her being so closed off is what made me not realize what was happening at the time. LR: Okay, that's interesting. As you're going through your elementary school experience, where did you go to elementary school? TH: I went to Freedom Elementary down in Hooper. LR: Okay. Oh, Hooper, just…? TH: Yeah, just down there on the verge of Roy. LR: Right, okay. My mind went to like, Herriman area. Was that a smaller school? TH: It was a fairly new school when I started. I started there probably maybe like five to eight years after it had started, so it was still fairly new. It was probably about 4 medium-ish, I'd say, for my grade at least. I know other grades had fluctuations, but with me it was kind of like that medium ground. LR: Okay. As you're going through your elementary school and your mom being so open with you—granted, circumstances made it that way, but having that, was there a time in elementary school when you felt like, “Man, I'm not quite like the other people in my grade?” TH: I felt that a lot. I had this term that I liked to use as a kid, and I think it was around first grade when I first told my mom. I always said, “I'm not like the girls, I’m not like the boys. I'm like that weird in between,” is what I would always say. I would always be like, “I hang out with boys, but I still like girly things,” and then I'd be like, “But I don't like certain girly things. I like boyish things.” I was very much that mix of like that girly, girly little girl and then that boyish boy. I had very strong attributes of both. With that came a little bit of confusion like, “Why don't I like hanging out with other girls? Why do I have a tendency to like this instead of that?” It was very much a back and forth constantly with how I was trying to present myself, because I was around a lot of Christian kids. There was a lot of LDS, a lot of, like, people who were in the church. Also, sorry for that term, I know that term is not very appropriate. LR: No, that's fine. TH: But it was very much they always were trying to get me to go to church because I was not raised in the church. My mom did not raise me in any sort of religion. She didn't see it as a priority for me. I was always told, “You need to go to church, you need a baptism party, because everyone else is getting one, and you 5 need to find God or else God can't help you,” and like all this stuff. I was very much stuck in that little in-between, because my mom was going through a lot of medical issues, as was myself. All these people would tell me, “God's gonna help you if you go and help Him,” you know? It was very much I wanted to do it for the sake of my mom, but not for the sake of myself. So, it was very much I needed to try and fit those stereotypes that they wanted a little girl to be, and essentially go with the flow, up until around junior high. LR: Okay. Going through that, did you feel the need to actually become a part of the predominant religion? TH: I tried a few times. I went to church with a few friends. I even did in high school, I tried again, and it was very much… it was not me. I knew right off the bat, as soon as I went there, I knew that it was not something that I personally believed in. To each their own, everyone can believe in what they want to believe, but I personally did not believe in what they were teaching, what they were saying. I kind of finally realized that it wasn't for me. LR: Okay. You said around 11, that's when your mom got remarried? I'm assuming that they got married. TH: Yeah, they got married. LR: That was a kind of a huge assumption on my part. At the same time, you were diagnosed with type 2 diabetes? TH: Type 1. LR: Type 1, I'm sorry. TH: No, you’re good. 6 LR: I know there's a difference between type 1 and type 2. What are those differences? Because I forget. TH: Type 1, you're actually most likely born with it, it’s genetic. It affects the pancreas permanently. Essentially, it is where your pancreas doesn't administer insulin, so you need a foreign body outside of the body to administer the insulin. Type 2 is where you eat too much sugar, and basically your pancreas can't keep up, so you need to compensate for those extra carbs, and that extra energy that you're trying to put in your body. You use that with either taking insulin or taking sort of medications. That's kind of the difference between the two. LR: Thank you, I appreciate that. That's a lot of change happening in a short amount of time, especially because you're just 11. What are some of the—what’s the question I'm looking for here? Which came first, the diagnosis or the marriage? TH: So, actually, it was puberty first, and then it was diabetes. Then my stepdad stayed with my mom throughout my whole mental illness period. Then they got married I think about three or four years after. It took them a little while to get married. It actually was the height of COVID, when everything lockdown was when they got married. LR: Okay. That's interesting. So, not only are you dealing with—that's just a ton all at once. You're trying to figure yourself out, you find out you have diabetes, type 1, that you have absolutely no control over. Then, you know, your mom starts dating your stepdad. I know you said you ended up having to go into a mental hospital. TH: Yeah. 7 LR: What are some of the things that you learned there that help has helped you move forward? TH: Some things I learned that were very helpful was being mindful and being in the moment and not focusing on the past, because a lot of it was I blamed myself for a lot of things that happened to me. Like my mom, she lost her eyesight and her kidneys having me, and so I blame myself primarily for that. I had a lot of mixed feelings about my birth relating to my mom's illnesses that she has still to this day. Being able to kind of be in the moment, to be in the present and be able to understand that everything bad wasn't my fault, was very helpful when going in. I think those were the key takeaways I got. They spewed so much at me in that hospital, but those were probably the most important things I took away from it. LR: Well, those are amazing things to take away. Were you able to finish your elementary experience in school, or…? TH: I did all elementary in school. I had an incident where I tried to commit suicide in sixth grade, and I thankfully wasn't administered into the hospital for that. It was actually seventh grade when I was put into the hospital. LR: Okay. That timeline makes a little bit more sense now. Where did you go to junior high? TH: Roy Junior High. LR: Roy Junior High, okay. How—and also, before I continue asking questions, if there's a question I asked that you're not comfortable with, just let me know. TH: For sure. 8 LR: And we'll move on. Do you think that part of the catalyst for the mental break was going into junior high? TH: I think a lot of it was a mixture between going into junior high, but also like with my stepdad moving in, because he moved in, and I have a condition where I have hallucinations. I hallucinated something that was not very appropriate and I felt guilty for it, and that's initially what got me put into the hospital. Essentially it was all that mixed with PTSD, anxiety, depression, and it was very much a jumble of a lot of things happening at once. LR: Yeah, it sounds like it. Also, during this time, again, you're still trying to figure yourself out. What was your first exposure to queerness? TH: I think my first exposure was actually in seventh grade when I went to gym class. My teacher actually was lesbian, and I saw a picture of her wife on her desk. I asked her, “Who's that?” She was like, “That's my wife.” At this point, I had no idea that you were allowed to like different gender, same genders. Like, I had no idea that any of that was kind of like apparent. After that, I kind of started thinking about myself and about how I felt throughout the years and like starting to kind of put the puzzle pieces together. Very slowly, but surely. LR: Did you find that there was… I want to use the term genderfluid because that's kind of what I'm getting. Did you ever feel like there was one gender that you were more comfortable being around? Or was it just kind of…? TH: I was more comfortable around men. I wasn't comfortable like, in the aspect of being alone, but like, in a group, being with guys and being like, in that sort of 9 sense, being able to hang out with the guys. I was very comfortable with that. But as soon as when it came to women, I was terrified. I was like stone cold. I couldn't talk to a woman to save my life. LR: Okay. Was that more because of the—was there more of an attraction there, or was it just that…? TH: It was just a sense of comfort, really. LR: Okay. I guess I'm trying to understand if it was just like, not feeling like you could relate, being with a group of women, just like you could relate to them? TH: I couldn't, because everything they talked about, I didn't know. It didn't make sense to me. But everything that a guy would say and everything a guy would like talk about, I could instantly flow off that. It was just a sense of I felt more comfortable in that sort of social setting. LR: Okay. How did that influence you figuring yourself out, you know, where you fit in? TH: I very much was questioning my sexuality during that time as well, and I, of course, don't care about gender. I love who I love. Essentially, figuring that out very much was difficult. I dated a lot of women in junior high. I tried going on dates. I tried, like, doing all that, and I felt most comfortable dating women, but hanging out with guys I felt most comfortable doing. There wasn't like this sexual attractedness towards men yet, so I thought I was lesbian for the longest time. Until about high school-ish, is when I started to realize, “Well, I like guys too.” It was kind of like that whole middle part where I was like, “I don't know if men or women,” and kind of like that. 10 Then I met someone who was also androgynous and also didn't use any, like, gender terms or anything, and I had the hugest crush on them. With that sense, I kind of realized that I didn't really care about what's in their pants, what gender they go by or pronouns they use, and that essentially, it's just the person that I like. LR: Okay. I'm trying to think of the term that fits that, and I'm not very good with any of the terms. TH: I'm pretty sure the term is pansexual. LR: I was wondering if that's what it was. TH: Yeah, I just use queer just ‘cause it's a little bit more encompassing. LR: I get that. Honestly, it gets confusing for me. TH: Yeah. I don't like to put the label on it. I don't like to put like—that's why I just use like genderqueer or queer, just ‘cause I don't like putting labels on myself, just ‘cause I was raised that way. LR: I love that, absolutely love that. Going back a little bit to junior high, were you able to attend Roy Junior High eventually? TH: I was put in center for two weeks, and then I had to keep going back every day, like during the weekdays, for six weeks. So, it did take a huge chunk of my seventh-grade year out. I was definitely a lost goose with my head cut off running around. As soon as I got back in, I didn't know what we were doing, I didn't understand anything, so it was very much I had to pick up where they had left off and figure out the rest on my own. That wasn’t the only time I went to the hospital. I had to go back in for a second time, probably about like six months 11 later to a different institution for two weeks. That one definitely is where I got the most out of it. After those two weeks, I thankfully don't have to go back. I was able to keep back up a lot better because it was only two weeks. LR: Right. I'm trying to think of the right question and it's not happening. [To Raegan] So, do you have any questions? I'm putting you on the spot, sorry. RB: I have one. LR: Okay, awesome. TH: Perfect. RB: Were you able to find a place like during your junior high years where you felt like you fit in and that you were being like, you didn't have to worry about your mental health state, you could just be you and not have a care in the world? TH: I did for a short time. It was with a group of kids that were a grade above me, and they were all also in LGBTQ. They were all queer. It very much kind of gave me a sense of they didn't care. They didn't care if I wanted to be this or that, if I like this or that. I just kind of was able to be myself around them, so I hung out with them for a year, and then I kind of lost that. I went to a group of guys for some time, lost that, and then I, in high school, I actually got back with one of my exes from junior high and was friends with her group for a while. We broke it off, and then I went back to that group of guy friends and unfortunately, I had dated one of them. It had a bad falling out, and I haven't talked to them since. Ever since, I've kind of been a loner; don't really have a group of friends, don't really talk to anyone, just besides my boyfriend and besides, like, his few friends that he has. But I definitely had that 12 sense of belonging with that one group in junior high, but unfortunately lost that when they all moved on to high school and everything. LR: Where did you go to high school? TH: Roy High. LR: Okay. Were there any organizations or anything within your high school or junior high where you could go, like a GSA? TH: I think they had a GSA. I personally wasn't ready to do that. I was terrified of being judged because I hadn't figured myself out. I didn't put a label, ‘cause everything was about labels in junior high and high school. LR: True. TH: With me, they'd always ask like, “What sexuality are you? What gender do you go by?” I never wanted to say like, “Oh well, I use all pronouns.” I’d have to explain that every single time. I, of course, just kind of steered clear from that. That's why I kind of liked that one group, is ‘cause they never asked; they kind of just let me be. I know they had one in junior high and I think they had one in high school. I think they had like a small one that really never got up and running. LR: Okay. How was your high school experience different from your junior high experience, do you think? TH: It was very different. Junior high, I started kind of figuring myself out. I started getting there, but high school, I backpedaled a lot on that aspect. I started dating a guy. He was in the Latter-day Saints Church, and so I very much tried to backpedal to being that perfect woman, to being that sort of stereotypical woman 13 that needs to be in the church, that mother will approve of when you take her home. I very much lost a lot of myself doing that. I dressed very differently than I do now. I acted very differently than I do now. I essentially kind of just tried to put on this facade all throughout high school until my senior year, when we broke up. We broke up the summer between junior year and senior year, so my senior year I was able to kind of be more me and start to try and figure it out a little bit more. Thankfully, I was able to. I started to reach out a little bit more, I met my current boyfriend. We had been acquaintances, but we actually started talking. We started dating end of our senior year, and we've been together ever since. He very much was full supportive and everything in me figuring myself out and me being who I am. He very much was that leverage that kind of helped me get to where I am now. LR: Okay. Did you find a specific subject, like theater or politics? My mind is not coming up with the correct term. Was there something that you gravitated towards in high school that kind of shaped what you would do from then on? TH: Yeah. I gravitated towards theater. Theater was the biggest thing. LR: Not to be stereotypical, I apologize. TH: No, no, no, no, no. Be stereotypical, at least for me. For me, I am that stereotypical theater kid. I very much was a theater nerd. I did competitions. I did everything you could in high school, theater-wise. I was that kid that was on stage probably screaming your ear off. LR: What about the theater drew you in? 14 TH: I started when I was in junior high, because at first I got this sense of I could be someone else for a day. I got that sense of I could leave my life and essentially be something else, live someone else's life, essentially. But as it started going towards more high school, it kind of started more as a way to express myself. LR: That's really cool. Were you able to do that all through high school? TH: Yes, thankfully. LR: What year did you graduate? TH: I graduated—God, it was an odd number. I know that. 2023? No wait, hold on. I'm doing math wrong. Sorry. My brain is totally confuzzling right now. Let me think. Gosh. Yeah, I think it was 2023 because… Yeah, it was 2023. My brain is confuzzling with numbers right now. I just did 1060. LR: Enough said. TH: I'm out. LR All right. The majority of your high school experience was like, COVID. COVID happened as you were starting high school? TH: It started at the end of my ninth-grade year. So, end of junior high year, and then kind of starting in high school. LR: Okay. That's a huge change right there. TH: Oh, yeah. LR: Going from in-person to all of a sudden—so, the first part of COVID was the end of your ninth-grade year? TH Yeah, I remember that they—it was lockdown as soon as, like the end of my ninth-grade year was when it happened, was the lockdowns and everything. 15 LR: Okay, that makes sense. As you were going into your 10th-grade year, going into high school, were they doing in-person yet? TH: They had started, but it was major masks, major distancing. It was very much trying to keep that sort of, like, quarantining, but in a personal aspect. I remember the start of my year it was all masks, but by the end of that year, no masks, which I was completely shocked by, considering how short of a time span it really was for the high schools to be like, “You don't need a mask.” There was still distancing in place, but it wasn't like as prominent. LR: As you went into lockdown, what were some of the things you would do to help with your own mental health? You know, to stay grounded within yourself? TH: A lot of it was very much I did like theater on my own time. I did monologues, I would recite poetry, I would read a lot, and I would do a lot of things like that. Now I've shifted away from the reading, but I would do that a lot. I never, like, associated with people really during that year. It was very much I associated with like a few people, but like, it was very much writing was my go-to. It was my outlet. LR: Okay. As you were finishing up your high school, did you have aspirations to go to college? Was that on your radar? TH: It was. I was planning on going into pre-med. I've, of course, changed directories and have decided to go in a totally opposite area instead. LR: Okay. Why pre-med? What was that about? TH: My main thing was thinking about, like, I had a very bad diabetes doctor as a kid. It was awful. I would cry every single time I'd leave that office. I was like, there's 16 got to be something better. But there was very rare—at least when I was younger—there was very rare children diabetes doctors. There was probably one in my area, and all the others were down in Salt Lake or down in St. George. So, like, the only person I could go see was really that one person. I wanted to try and broaden that spectrum. But of course, I'm not good with science, I'm not good with chemistry, and I dropped it. LR: Okay. I'm kind of curious how, you know, your own health issues with diabetes, with your mother, the health issues that she had, how do you think that informed and impacted you as you grew up? Do you think it had an important impact on how you presented yourself and how you found yourself? Does that question make sense? TH: It makes sense. I very much had to grow up very fast. I was someone who had to take care of a mom who was on dialysis. I had to take care of a mother who was legally blind. But I had some positives, though. I learned how to read at a college level in third grade. I had a lot of things that were very positive when it came out. But also, with me having to grow up so fast, I didn't really have much of those childhood dreams. I didn't have a lot of that fun time, you know. I very much was kinda stuck in I had to be an adult for my mom, because I had to help her. I had to be there for her if she wasn't feeling good, I had to cook dinner if she wasn't feeling good. It was very much I had to grow up very fast. I think what really helped me was with that growing up so fast, in the long run, really, it made me who I am now. It made me get to where I am now quicker. I don't think I'd be sitting here talking to you about this if I didn't go through those 17 things. I probably would still be in the closet talking to myself, wondering what is wrong with me. I would still be asking those questions, because I kind of grew up with that methodical mind of, you need to figure things out fast. You do think through things because there wasn’t time, you didn't have time, and you need to figure those things out quickly and efficiently. A lot of it was I went through a lot of stages very quickly throughout my adolescence, and I think it helped me get more reliable as well. LR: Okay. What do you mean, you be more reliable? What do you mean by that? TH: By that I mean like, I very much am someone that my family—everyone, extended family—I have people coming asking for things all the time. I have them asking for me to help them with things, because I think of it as like an adult. I don't think of it as a young adult that's stupid. ‘Cause stereotypically, most people don't go to a 20-year-old to watch out for their seven kids. Usually, I get asked a lot to do a lot of things, and I'm very responsible when it comes to certain stuff like that, just because I did have to grow up faster and I did have to learn to adapt very quickly with the stuff that was presented in front of me. LR: With your mother being legally blind through most of your childhood, I'm assuming most of your childhood… TH: All of my childhood. LR: Okay. What would you do when you needed to go somewhere? I mean, how would you navigate that? TH: My mom would call family. She'd call people. My grandma was our biggest one. But if we couldn't find a ride, I couldn't do it. Like, I wanted to do ice skating so 18 bad, that was a dream of mine. Thankfully, they have an ice skating course now, so I do that all the time. But as a kid, I wanted to ice skate and I couldn't do it because no one could take me. I couldn't get the rides. So, it was very much me and my mom had to schedule around other people's schedules, so we learned to adapt that way very quickly as well. LR: All right. So, you learned very quickly how to rely upon others. One thing that I'm finding really fascinating listening to your story is the difference. The majority of individuals that we've interviewed were very isolated; they isolated themselves. They were very like, alone, purposefully. You didn't have that luxury. TH: No, I was around people all the time. LR: And you were kind of forced into this position of you had to be out there. You couldn't just, you know, kind of be a loner by yourself, even if you wanted to. It's really fascinating, and there's really not a question there. In my head, it's just amazing how circumstances that are completely outside of one's control can have such a profound effect on how we're raised. I'm just kind of in awe a little bit. So, forgive me for having my moment of… TH: No. You're good. LR: Thoughtfulness. When you were old enough to get your license, was that important for you? TH: It was. I don't drive now. Personal reasons. I just don't like driving. When I got my license, it was a sense of freedom, especially for my mom. That was my biggest idea, was I needed to be able to drive my mom places, I needed to be a reliable resource for her. She needed me. I kind of became her stationary, kind of like 19 drive her to doctor's appointments when my stepdad couldn't, drive her to things that she needed when she needed them. I'd go grocery shopping with my mom every week. It was very much driving wasn't about my freedom, it was more about my mom's freedom. LR: Okay. All right. That's really interesting. So, last question kind of about your childhood. But considering the close dynamic you had with your mother, when your stepdad came into the picture, it almost sounds like there was a sense of like, “Now what?” for you, like, “What's my role? What's my purpose?” What have you done to like, take care of yourself in that respect in finding where you fit, now that there's all this other, you know, this change? TH: Yeah, it was very hard when my stepdad came in, because he took over everything. He was my mom's go-to. He was the one that my mom went to for everything. I was so used to being that, I was so used to being so close with her, that it very much—that's when I kind of started to be isolated, was when my stepdad sort of walked in and kind of started to take over the picture. Of course, I appreciate what he did because he's a great guy. But it was very much trying to find myself, as well as trying to find a purpose for myself, because like a lot of kids don't really think of them needing a purpose when you're 11, 12 years old. But my purpose was my mom, and essentially kind of having that taken away kind of irked me in a sort of negative fashion. I had this urge against my stepdad like, “Oh, I don't want him here. He's taking away my mom. He's kind of doing that.” 20 But I think with me growing older, I was thankful for it because I got my independence. I got my ability to stand on my own without needing someone there with me, without needing to help someone else stand up with me. Essentially, it was kind of like being able to find that independence, being able to find that sort of perfect ground where I'm still there for my mom—I'm still there for her for many, many things—but being able to still have me be an adult and me be able to have my own life while correlating with that. ‘Cause I don't think if my stepdad wasn’t there, I personally do not think I would have my own life. I’d still be living with my mom and helping her out with many different things. LR: Okay. Do you think him being in the picture affected how you came out, how you discovered yourself? TH: Yeah, 100%. With a man in the house, ‘cause we hadn't had a man in the house, I was very scared. I was very irritated. I was very agitated. I very much became very hostile very quickly towards my stepdad. It was always this back and forth and it was always butting heads constantly, and so it very much made me realize I needed that sense of belonging with my mom. So, I came out to her super early because I was like, this is something I can talk to my mom about, and this is something I can kind of connect with her with. I can be able to talk with her with this and she'll be able to understand. It was a way for me to kind of try and reel her back in into my side, ‘cause it was very much sides back then. LR: Okay, and that makes sense, thank you. [To Raegan] Do you have any questions? Okay, I'm gonna move forward now to the end of high school and the 21 beginning of your college experience. Did you know where you wanted to go to college? TH: Weber was my number one choice. LR: Was there a reason for that? That Weber was your number one choice? TH: It was close to home and I was able to afford it. It also had a lot of different degree programs, so if I didn't want to go into premed, I had a lot more options and had a lot more variety than going into like a technical college or going to something like that. LR: That’s true. Did you live at home and commute to campus? Is that what you did? TH: Yeah, I did that. I currently live in the dorms for this year, but I'll probably be going back and doing the commuting again next year. LR: When you first started here at Weber, what were some of the resources that you took advantage of? TH: The LGBTQ Center was a big one that I did take advantage of, and so I got that. I also used a lot of the Student Success Center. I used a lot of, like, what they have there now currently, but like it was obviously in different centers and everything. I also used other centers, like the Black Cultural Center. I used a lot of different centers that, essentially, I wouldn't fit that demographic. But they were still welcoming, they still opened arms to me, so I kind of went to them willingly. LR: Okay. So, even though you didn't necessarily fit in with the demographic, you never felt out of place? 22 TH: No. They were always welcoming. It always felt like I belonged, and that I essentially have that community that I can go and talk to and go and be myself around. LR: That's really cool. As you were going to Weber, how has that impacted how you present yourself? I mean that by being out—I'm not asking the right question, and yet I can't think of another way to ask it. Just being yourself. I have a question in my head, but it doesn't quite make sense yet. You don't put labels on yourself, you just are who you are. How has that affected just the way you present yourself? I don't even know if that's a fair question, if that even made sense. TH: I think I get where you're trying to go with that. I get it a little bit. LR: Go ahead and answer the way you get it. TH: Okay, the way I get it. So, with me, coming out of high school I was very much that stereotypical “had to be girly girl, had to be that woman,” because that one relationship changed me. Coming into college and seeing the wide variety of different demographics and seeing the wide variety of different people around me and seeing that people were just who they wanted to be and who they felt that most resonated with themselves. It really made me realize that being who I am and just being able to present myself with how I want to was not that big of a deal here. It was kind of like changing everyday clothes. It was kind of like, I had met this one girl in my math class, and she was also queer, and she would wear the wackiest outfits and she would put on the craziest stuff. I always was like, that is absolutely amazing. I was like, there’s no way I could ever do that. Now, usually I don’t look—like, I have a very dark 23 persona. I think the openness of Weber State and the sense of how diverse it is really helped me realize that everyone comes from different backgrounds, everyone is different in some shape or fashion. No one person is the same, and no one person relates to someone the same exact way. We're all unique in our own way, and with me, I didn’t need to put a label on what was unique to me. LR: Okay. There are a few things that have happened the last few years that have kind of changed the, like, everything. I'm curious, because you were still in high school when Roe v. Wade was overturned. What, if any impact did that have on you? TH: I was sexually active in high school, and I very much was terrified, because I was of course with an all-guy group, and they were all very, very all for overturning Roe versus Wade. As a woman, I was surrounded by these guys who were like, “Yeah, abortions are bad, abortions are evil,” and being a woman who was terrified of having to think about if—'cause with me, I have a lot of genetic disorders that I personally don't want to have kids, at least on my own, because of that. Being able to have that option to where I'm able to be in control of my own body was really important to me. Having that taken away like with just a snap of the fingers really just scared me. Especially with being in all-guys group, they were all for it and they were all like—I remember the conversation that we had very clearly, and they were all talking about it and they're like, “I think it's good because there's going to be more kids and it's not like our population’s going to dwindle,” kind of like viewing women as kind of like birthing machines, essentially. 24 I did not want that. I did not want any aspect of having a kid. I didn't want to be a mother. I didn't want any aspect of that. Of course, my ex was of the pro no abortions, and of course, he didn't care. He very much was, “If you ever do get pregnant, you have to have the kid. You have to go through with it. Like, we have to get married, we have to do all these things.” It was that scary, kind of like, what happens if it does? Like, if we don't have abortions in Utah and if it does happen, what happens to me and what happens to that kid afterwards? LR: Right. Do you think that had an impact on the ending of the relationship? TH: It definitely did. It was very much we had very different views on how we wanted our lives to be, and I think thankfully it didn't work out. Because seeing who I am now and who I want to be, it very much would be I would be stuck in a situation that I couldn't get out of. LR: Right. As you have been, you know, having your college experience, what are some of the things that you've done to be active? When I say active, I mean… TH: Engaging? LR: Yeah, like engaging with your community or just like a sense of activism. I'm trying not to be assumptive, but obviously I know that you were part of the… TH: WSUSA. LR: Thank you. RB: It’s a mouthful. LR: It is a mouthful. TH: It is a lot. LR: What are some the things that spurred you to be involved in that way? 25 TH: My biggest thing was my uncle. He works at Weber State as part of the janitorial staff, and he recommended me to try out for the senate position because he said that it would be a very good way to put on an application, and it would be very good in the spectrums of a long run. I was like, “Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, like, I’d totally be up for it.” I was a write-in candidate for the former position LGBTQ+ Senator, which changed to Senator of Engagement for many of the senate positions due to HB261. I think being able to engage with the community and being able to get to know more people and being able to kind of get more people from a lot of different backgrounds, cultures, diversity really helps gauge the community that Weber has. My position is now officially the Safe@Weber Senator, which is a new position. My sort of position is essentially helping represent the Safe@Weber ambassadors, all the people who are associated with Safe@Weber, which is every student on campus. LR: Right. They might not know about it, but they’re associated with it. TH: They may not know that, but they are always welcome and they're always able to walk through those doors whenever they need something. Being able to kind of feel like you're a bigger part in the community that Weber State has been able to build, and be able to kind a progress on, really helped me realize that it wasn't just me I was here for. It wasn't just me that I was doing this position for, it was for a lot of other people and it was for a lot of other aspects. That's what helped me get to the degree program I'm going into now. It was very much that sense of being there for people that really helped me. 26 LR: What is the degree that you are going for now? TH: I'm going into physical education teaching, to be a PE teacher and specifically for junior high. LR: Okay. That's interesting, almost like full circle for you, your first exposure to queerness. TH: That kind of is really what ties it in, because really all kids are going through a hard time at that age, and being able to be there as a sense of comfort and be able to help support those kids when they're going through such a hard time, going through such a crazy demographic like I did, essentially. Just being able to know that you're there to help support them really benefits me in the most of why I want to go into the degree. LR: With the way things are now politically, how comfortable are you being out and open? TH: It's very hard with mine, because with me, with not putting labels, I prefer just to be queer and everything. It's very much hard, especially with me going into teaching, of course I have to use the term “Miss Hall,” and of course I’ll have to use sort of stuff like that most kids will probably use. Especially with the political climate that we have right now is kind of scary, to be honest, because a lot of things are changing. A lot of things are going to change, and honestly, we don't really know what they are until they really put it out in front of us on written papers. It's kind of like having your life hang in the balance between a document and who you are. Because really, with a lot of stuff that whatever politics wants to go through or whatever they want to change, it really is hanging the life of 27 thousands and millions of people for a weaselly little document that’ll justify someone's actions or someone's opinions. Essentially, it is scary. I, of course, am not one of the people that are mostly affected by it, since I don't put labels on it, I don't essentially, like, use—I kind of use any pronouns. I'm just kind of neutral on everything, but for the people who are transgender, the people who have to have like gender affirming care, it's scary. I have a best friend, and she's terrified for what our politics has in store for us, because she's massively affected by whatever they come up with. It honestly makes me feel awful, especially towards all the people who are heavily affected by it. LR: It's so weird asking this question now, because—how is it different now from when you grew up, being a part of the community? Does that question make sense? [To Raegan] Am I making sense? RB: I mean, you make sense to me because I know—like, I’ve sat in on enough to know what you’re talking about. LR: Right. Okay, and that makes sense. With the way things are politically now, and they're just kind of happening, you know, it's almost been like this dramatic 180, right? How is it different for you? Because it is interesting in the sense that you don't have those labels for yourself. You just are who you are. I guess you’ve kind of answered the question already, but I'm just kind of curious how it's different now from when you were growing up to be out, to be open. TH: With it being how it was, because when I was younger, I questioned a lot. I went through so many different labels. I went through lesbian, bi, pan, and I went 28 through so many different pronouns. I used they/them for a while, I used she/her, I used he/him for a while, and it was very much that aspect of just wondering who I was. But now, like with me fully figuring myself out, and thankfully when I was younger, I didn't really get involved in politics. I didn't really notice the political instances that were going on around me, besides when Roe versus Wade was turned. That was the biggest one for me throughout my junior high and high school experience. I think the biggest one culturally that affected like the LGBTQ was HB261 affecting Weber State. With that one, it really affected me heavily, because I found my sense of community in those centers. I found my sense of belonging. I found friends, I found people that I could talk to, people that I could relate with. To have those places essentially be ripped away, essentially be taken away as if they weren't even there to begin with, really affected me because it was kind of that sense of—it's like you have this certain place that you go to. You have this certain place that you go to when you're stressed, when you're anxious, when you're having a hard time. That was my go-to, was the LGBTQ+ Center. That was my go-to. To have that comfort, to have that community, to have that sense of belonging be stripped away just in a flash was very disheartening. Especially with what we have politics today. Once again, we don't know what's gonna come waltzing through those doors tomorrow even. We got no idea, and it's kind of that fear of is that safe place gonna be taken away? Is that sense of self gonna be taken away? Because once again, like with me, I of course identify as queer. I am queer. Like, 29 I know my labels are very different than a lot of different aspects. There's a wide range of people. There's a wide range of backgrounds, diversities, and of course I won't be as affected by it, ‘cause I'm once again in a “straight” relationship. I identify still as female. I still have that sort of sense that I fit outside of that demographic. But with the people who don't have that, people who are transgender, people who are gay, people who have that difference, who don't have that same way out. It's hard to put into words exactly, because there's not really any words that can explain how hard it is to feel like I can be who I am. I can be who I want to be. But those people don't have that same honest reliability, because we have politics that could snap their fingers and change everything in a day. Makes me feel, essentially, dread. Feel awful about what could happen for the future of our community, the future of the people who are with us, who want to be themselves, who want to be able to express themselves like how I do, how I express myself how I want to. To have that possibly be taken away with the snap of fingers really is just hard. LR: Yeah. [To Raegan] Do you have any questions? I really just have one more question. Before I ask it though, is there anything else you’d like to add or say? TH: No. LR: Okay. I'm just kind of curious now, as you think about moving forward, what is your hope for the future? TH: My hope is that people can be who they want to be without judgment, without having to be this sort of demographic, because of course I don't fit the 30 demographic. I don't think a lot of people do, and so being able to see each other as equals and being able to see each other as people, not just as the labels that we make of them. Because once again, the world is made up of labels, and my opinion is that you don't need labels to make up yourself. You make up labels, people make up labels; people created labels. People created everything that we got here. People essentially construct our social norms. Being able to see that one day, possibly, be able to just see each other as another person, as someone who is just living day to day and being able to be who they are and who they want to be is my biggest dream for the world, because I think it’d fix a lot of things. LR: Yeah. I'm really appreciative of your willingness to share your experience. I'm just really grateful for your willingness. 31