Oral History Program Frances Greigo Duncan Interviewed by Marci Farr 31 August 2010 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Frances Greigo Duncan Interviewed by Marci Farr 31 August 2010 Copyright © 2010 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in Special Collections. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The St. Benedict’s School of Nursing was founded in 1947 by the Sisters of Mount Benedict. The school operated from April 1947 to 1968. Over the forty-one year period, the school had 605 students and 357 graduates. In 1966, the program became the basis for Weber State College’s Practical Nursing Program. This oral history project was created to capture the memories of the graduates and to add to the history of nursing education in Ogden. The interviews focus on their training, religion, and experiences working with doctors, nurses, nuns, and patients at St. Benedict’s Hospital. This project received funding from the Utah Humanities Council and the Utah Division of State History. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management Special Collections All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Frances Greigo Duncan, an oral history by Marci Farr, 31 August 2010, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Frances Greigo Duncan Graduation Photo Class of 1960 Frances Greigo Duncan August 31, 2010 1 Abstract: This is an oral history interview with Frances Greigo Duncan, conducted by Marci Farr and Sarah Langsdon, on August 31, 2010. In this interview, Frances discusses her recollections and experiences with the St. Benedict’s School of Nursing. MF: This is Marci Farr. We are interviewing Frances Greigo Duncan. She graduated from the St. Benedict’s School of Nursing in 1960. We are interviewing her at her home in Clinton, Utah. It is August 31, 2010. Tell us a little bit about your early life, where you grew up, where you went to school. FD: I grew up in Price, Utah and graduated from the high school there in Price. I graduated in 1957 and went right from high school graduation into nurse’s training. MF: Why did you decide to become a nurse? Was there a particular reason? FD: Yes my grandfather had been injured in the mine there in Price and he was in and out of the hospital quite a bit. I remember seeing those nurses in there and they just looked like angels all dressed in white going around and helping my grandfather. They were just amazing. Then when I was a junior in high school they offered a nurse’s aid class. Of course it was taught by one of the teachers there, one of the instructors that was a nurse and so we had training for about five or six months during the year. During that time we were able to go to the hospital and get actual hands-on orientation. It was just a wonderful experience. When we finished our junior year, during our senior year they hired us as nurse’s 2 aids. So I worked in the Price Hospital all during my senior year. It was between my junior and the senior year that I decided I wanted to become a nurse. At that time there weren’t very many scholarships. Our priest there in our Catholic church, Father LeBranch spoke with the nuns and told them my situation. I grew up with my grandfather who eventually passed away so my grandmother just raised me. So there wasn’t any money to go to school. Father LeBranch was able to get a scholarship and that is how I was able to go to… MF: Go to St. Benedict’s. FD: Yes. MF: Why did you choose St. Benedict’s? FD: Well it was because that was the only place I could get a scholarship. If I could have gotten one somewhere else maybe I would have gone there but I didn’t know of any other avenue other than that. I decided that is what to do. MF: Do you remember how much your tuition was? FD: Oh my goodness it seems like for the whole three years it was like two thousand and some dollars as I recall. MF: Well that was great you were able to get a scholarship. That always helps. Was this your first time away from home? FD: It was. MF: How did you feel when you first entered? FD: Very frightened because we lived in Price in a very small home where we didn’t have any hot water running, we had an outhouse so going into this everything was totally different—a shower. It was very frightening and of course I didn’t 3 know anyone. But before I went in there I was interviewed by Sister Berno, with the regular interview process so I did know her and she was very kind in getting me acclimated to the girls there and the nuns and everyone. MF: Who was your roommate? FD: Esther Satterfield. MF: Were you with her for all three years? FD: Yes I was. MF: Did you have a housemother? FD: Yes we did. As a matter of fact, I have a couple of pictures of her. Her name was Lena. She was a very nice person. She took very good care of us and made sure that we had whatever we needed, she was very kind. MF: What was your dorm room like when you first got there? FD: We had two floors. The seniors got to be down in the first floor and we were up in the second floor. I believe it was the freshman and juniors up there and then some of them went downstairs and the seniors were the lucky ones that got the first floor. But one of those days we moved down there. MF: How were the Sisters? Were they strict? What type of rules did you have to follow? FD: We had a lot of rules. They were strict but they were kind. They made sure that we were aware of the rules, we knew what they were and we had to follow them. Sometimes we didn’t. MF: Did you have a probationary period? FD: Yes I believe it was six months as I recall. 4 MF: What did you have to do during that time? FD: We had classes during that time and we had tests that we had to pass for our classes like anatomy and physiology and that and keep up our grades. Of course, we had to be socially following the rules. We had hours that we had to be in bed as I recall the first year it was by ten o’clock. As we got to be seniors it was twelve. Every time we left the house we had to sign out where we were going and what time and when we came back we had to sign in. They made sure that we were safe and where we were going and made sure that we got back. Then they would do room check every night to make sure that we were in there and that we were behaving, the lights were out, no noise. SL: Was there sneaking out? FD: Oh yes! There was. Between the hospital and the nurses dorm there was a tunnel and the nuns would go to mass real early like at five thirty in the morning so sometimes we were out not that late of course but they were working and going back and forth in a tunnel and sometimes we’d have to sneak in through the tunnel. MF: So you wouldn’t get caught. FD: Right. MF: If you had a night off what was something you would do for fun with your classmates? FD: That first year there weren’t many nights off because we were studying and trying to do what we were supposed to so we would be able to stay in. I didn’t have a car and had very little money so I didn’t go out too much. We just stayed in the 5 house and watched TV. As we got older we had certain requirements that we had to fill as far as where we were working in the hospital and sometimes when we had a weekend off we could work. That was not until our junior and senior year and then we’d get paid for that. We did have a little bit of money that way and were able to—sometimes we’d go to a movie, just routine things. MF: At this time were you allowed to get married while you were in training? FD: Absolutely not, no. MF: Would they kick you out? What was the policy? FD: Yes. That was absolutely not tolerated. I don’t know of anyone in the class that that happened to. MF: When you were done with your probationary period what was some of your first assigned duties? FD: As I recall, we were able to stay up on the weekends just a little bit later. During our probation they wanted to make sure that we were studying so we would be able to stay there. We were able to stay up a little bit longer. MF: Did you start learning how to do blood pressures and things like that after your classes? FD: Eventually. The first six months it was mostly classes as I recall. MF: So it was just after your capping? FD: Yes. Right. MF: Where did your capping ceremony take place? FD: It was there in the hospital. As I recall it was where we ate. MF: Tell us about a typical day when you started after your probationary period. 6 FD: Well we would have to get up right around six. If you were Catholic you had to go to Mass. Then we would have breakfast we would have classes starting around eight. An hour of chemistry, an hour of nursing fundamentals, and that was what we did. Did you say after probation? MF: Yes so after when you first started doing your rotations. FD: After capping there would be a lab where we would go to learn the routine, how to give a bed bath and how to take blood pressures. It seems to me as we got maybe into our second year was when we got to practice on oranges giving injections—eventually how to draw blood and we drew blood on each other. We didn’t wear gloves which now we are thinking, “Oh my gosh!” MF: So how long were you assigned to each floor? Did you have a certain amount of time you had to spend on each floor? FD: We did rotations and as I recall the medical nursing and surgical nursing floors were the ones we were on the most but we did have rotations to OB/GYN floors, the nursery. We did our psychiatric training in Hastings, Nebraska for three months. MF: Was that when you were a senior? FD: Yes. Then we did three months of training at Children’s Hospital in Denver. That is how we got our pediatric training. Then we did not quite three months at the TB Sanitorium. There was a TB Sanitorium here in Ogden. MF: Which floor did you prefer? Which rotation did you like the most? FD: I think I like the nursery the best. It was just nice seeing those little babies and just the miracle of birth. It was so amazing to see those babies come out and 7 here they are a human being. I loved it. I especially liked the big ones, you know, the nine pound ones. MF: They look like they are three months old. What do you think was probably your most difficult challenge in nurse’s training? FD: I felt like I was prepared for anything that came in my nursing career there at the hospital. I don’t remember any great difficulty because we were trained so well before we were ever let on to the floor I felt secure enough to do whatever was required of me. I think maybe one of the challenges that I had was working on the floor and being in charge of the aides and trying to do all of the charting that you had to do. We did it all by hand. For instance, in the evening the night shift we’d be the only one that would be in charge. There would be a nursing supervisor that would be over the whole hospital if we ever needed anything. I just felt pretty secure. I don’t remember other than making sure the aides did what they were supposed to because we were responsible for that. The charting—oh my goodness that just took forever and giving report—you had to have everything just ready to go. We did it all verbally. MF: That would be a challenge. Do you remember any traditions associated with St. Benedict’s at Christmas or holiday time? FD: We always had picnics for all the nurses. We would get together and have Christmas parties—the traditional things that you would do. I didn’t have much money so I didn’t go home for Thanksgiving even though I lived in Price. I remember one of the nurses took me into her home for Thanksgiving. I was able to go home for Christmas. 8 MF: Where was graduation held? You graduated in 1960. What month did you graduate? FD: It was in August. We graduated at St. Joseph’s church. That is where the ceremony was held and it was just beautiful. I remember going across when it was your graduation, you had your cap and your gown, fully dressed and you received your diploma that you had finished all three years adequately, everything was as they required. Your family was there, my grandmother and my brother, they were there. Everyone else had their family and friends there. It is something you just don’t forget. MF: What did you do after graduation? Did you stay at St. Benedict’s? FD: I stayed at St. Benedict’s for awhile. I went to—at that time it was the Dee Hospital and I worked there for fifteen years after I graduated. I knew what St. Benedict’s was like and I worked there after and I wanted to know what else was there. MF: When did you retire? FD: 2001. MF: Did you stay with Mckay Dee? FD: No. I left there after fifteen years and in the mean time I had three children. During my fourth pregnancy I decided that I was going to stop working and stay home and take care of the children. I was there at home for three years and then I was offered a job with the state. They were opening up a clinic for individuals who did not qualify for Medicaid or Medicare. It was kind of the individuals who didn’t have the money to go to a clinic or doctor or hospital to get care. We 9 would interview them and if they qualified then we would send them to get whatever they needed treated. MF: How do you think your training at St. Benedict’s helped you in your career? FD: When I worked at McKay Dee, I worked in every department. I started out working in the operating room but I decided I didn’t like that. At that time the doctors were Gods. If you didn’t do something right you would be berated. I remember one time I handed him the wrong instrument or something and he just threw it back at me and he contaminated the whole table. So I had to quickly get the nurses in to get me a new table to set up and I thought, “Nope, that is not for me.” Then I worked in orthopedics and pediatrics and psychiatry. I wanted to stay home and take care of my children and only worked a couple of days. After a while it got that I couldn’t work on the floor because I was only working two days and I needed full time. I worked as a PRN, just working wherever they needed someone so that is where I got the experience of working everywhere in the hospital. Then when we made the transition to the McKay Dee Hospital I worked there for awhile. When I got the state office I went there and was there for another twenty years. Then I left there and went and worked at the Department of Health in Salt Lake with Quality Assurance. Even though at the time that I graduated I don’t even remember a whole lot of quality assurance because of the training that I had you knew that whatever it was you would be able to do it. You just felt secure. MF: How do you think nursing has changed over the years? 10 FD: Oh my goodness. I wouldn’t even dare go back to work now. When we were working in the emergency room we could start the regular IVs and draw blood but at the time when you were able to insert a catheter and leave it for an IV we could not do that. We didn’t have all these machines that you could calculate how much IV to get and what time and the number of hours. We just hung up a bottle and say it was 1000 cc’s and it was supposed to go in in eight hours we would have to calculate it, put tape on the bottle and mark each hour where it was supposed to be. That was our method. MF: Did you have to reuse the bottles and the tubing? FD: No. But I just look at what they have instruments now and I think, “Oh my gosh.” MF: There is no comparison. FD: Oh no. It is frightening. I worked in a clinic as a clinic manager when I was working with Medicaid and Medicare I really didn’t have hands on nursing, I was more administration but I was aware of what was going on in the medical field and then when we did medical—when I was there in the Department of Health it wasn’t hands on, it wasn’t hands on nursing like you have in the hospital. It was more administration and quality assurance. Then I was away from the hospital so to go back into a hospital situation and see all that. Although, when I was working with Medicaid and Medicare, they hired nurses to go wherever they needed a nurse in the valley—so I went to Primary Children’s and University and nursing homes and all over. MF: Did you have anything that you wanted to ask her? SL: Do you remember anything about your instructors? 11 FD: Most of them were nuns. We did have some doctors that were instructors. For medical ethics we sometimes had the nuns but then a priest would come in and talk about the medical ethics part of it. But they were all very strict but they were very kind at the same time. SL: What do you remember about the sisters? FD: They were kind but like I said they were strict. When I graduated from Price we did have nuns there at the church where we went but they were not nurses. I remember the habits that they wore, big long dresses and the big hats. I remember one time we were being funny but we snuck downstairs where we knew the nuns kept their clothes when they had them laundered. We snuck down there and got their outfits and we got dressed up in them. We were seniors then, I believe. It must have been like a weekday or something. We went upstairs to the freshman and we disguised our voices like we were the nuns and we said, “Are you sleeping or are you awake?” And we would open the door and they could see the outfit and boy they were just quiet as could be. I don’t know where it is but I think somewhere I have a picture of one of us dressed up like a nun. SL: Did you have any nuns that were going through school? FD: Yes we had one that was. She didn’t stay there in the dorm with us. She was with the other nuns. But the nuns were very kind but again, like I said, they were very strict. You had to toe the line because they were very strict in the hospital with everything that you did. They wanted to teach us everything had to be just perfect. I remember one time we were assigned patients. You would go in there 12 and take care of them all day. At that time we gave them bed baths from top to bottom and cleaned their rooms, we had to make sure their tables were cleaned off and everything was just right. Then the nuns would come in and check everything. We would be there saying, “Oh my gosh.” I remember the nun was in there checking my room and I was in one of the other rooms. She comes in and she says, “Miss Greigo? May I see you please?” “Yes Sister.” So then I went there and she says, “Do you see anything wrong with this room Miss Greigo?” “No, Sister I don’t.” “Would you mind looking at that waste basket? Has it been emptied?” “No.” “Well, Miss Greigo that is part of your duty.” That is how strict they were to empty a garbage can. I didn’t think we had to do that but we did. From then on I made sure the garbage cans were emptied. SL: Were you able to go up to the canyon with them? Were they involved in outside of the hospital activities? FD: Yes they were. Yes we did go to different places. I remember we went up to the canyon. I remember we went on a picnic with them someplace. I can’t even remember where it was. I remember one of the priests would come down and say, “Who wants to go skiing?” There was Father Kearns, he loved to ski so some of the gals that skied would get a chance to go up skiing. We would do different things—go to the movies or walk around town, we walked down 25th street which we weren’t supposed to because that was such a bad place but we wanted to see what it was like. Of course we didn’t tell them that was where we had been. SL: Did you have any LDS or non-Catholic girls in your class? 13 FD: Yes we did. SL: Did you ever talk about how they were feeling, not being Catholic and being in a Catholic run institution? FD: I don’t know that we discussed it a lot. I do remember that some of our practices they didn’t agree with. They were okay with it, they just weren’t a part of it, which was okay. There was never anything as I recall negative about it. They just knew that was a Catholic hospital and were told when they got there that this is a Catholic institution and we have practices that we have. Medical ethics—there is different things there that we practice that they didn’t. There was never anything at that time that was derogatory in any way that I can remember. SL: Did you have a favorite patient that you remember or a hard one that stuck with you over the years? FD: I remember an incident where we had learned how to give injections to an orange, then we gave them to ourselves. It was our first time to do it on a patient and the instructor is there with you. I was so nervous. We were all nervous when we had to do that first injection. I did everything right. We had alcohol swabs—cotton balls that you put in alcohol and I remember it was an injection in the buttocks, I cleaned it off, I drew up the medication because it came in bottles and we had to draw it up and make sure it was the right amount, check the patients name with his wrist band and everything was going right. I took a deep breath, got up the skin and gave the injection, pulled the syringe back, no blood, wonderful. I gave the injection, pulled the syringe out, and the needle stayed in there. I just nearly died. My instinct was right—I just pulled it out with my fingers 14 by the hub. The instructor didn’t say anything. Apparently this has probably happened to her before and she didn’t say anything. That is one thing that I just remember. I never forgot that. That was so frightening. MF: What they don’t know won’t hurt them, right? FD: Yes. MF: Well we appreciate you letting us visit with you and share your memories with us.