Oral History Program Fotis Konakis Interviewed by Elaine Markos 15 February 1971 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Fotis Konakis Interviewed by Elaine Markos 15 February 1971 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in University Archives. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The Weber State College/University Student Projects have been created by students working with several different professors on the Weber State campus. The topics are varied and based on the student's interest or task for a specific assignment. These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Konakis, Fotis, an oral history by Elaine Markos, 15 February 1971, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is a transcript processed directly from the original tape recording. The interview was conducted by Elaine Markos of Ogden, Utah, with Fotis Konakis of Price, Utah and interpreted by Nick Bapis of Salt Lake City, Utah. Present also was Ellen Konakis, wife of Fotis Konakis. All was conducted at the home of Fotis and Ellen Konakis in Price, Utah on February 15, 1971. EM: Where were you born? FK: Mytilini, Lesbos. EM: And this is in Greece? FK: Greece, Island (meaning it is an island off the mainland of Greece, near to Turkey). EM: Could you tell me something about the economic conditions? How the people lived? FK: Oh, lot of people over there...in the Turkish country. That time we belong to the Turkish country. EM: Oh, How did you feel about the Turks? FK: Well from the Turks after I been born over there, I been in Asia. (7 Years) Pretty good over there—the Turk--but no belongs to him, that place (his island). That's the trouble with those people all the time. They wanted me to go, to take me in the army too. To go fight Greece. No, can't do that. (This brings out the hostilities between the Greeks and the Turks; these small islands, etc. have been thrown back and forth between the two countries. The Turks have been trying to claim countries that the Greeks thought were theirs.) 1 EM: Did you get mad at the Turks a lot? FK: Married? EM: Mad? NB: Mad? At the Turks? FK: Oh yes, lots of times, you know some take the gun, you know, and I whip him one good. EM: Why did you leave Greece? FK: Greece, well that's Mytilini, Lesbos, that's all island. From there I left after, come to Greece and stayed one month in Athens and in the Parthenon. I stayed to see the old stuff, thousands and thousands of years old. Then I come to the United States. EM: Did the Turkish or did the Greek government give you any trouble when you wanted to leave? FK: No, no, no, I go over there (Greece), pass one month there, nice all over. I go to the ancient ruins. The acropolis, the big building you know the king— the palace, been 4 years that George (was king) at the time I pass through. Yes, been all over in Athens. I came and one guy I got with me. EM: Were there a lot of immigrants to Utah before World War I? FK: Utah? EM: Yes, to Utah. FK: No, I been to New York. (Understood the question to be asking where he went when he came to the U.S.). EM: You went to New York. 2 FK: I came in New York and stayed in New York and first work and I work, then comes one Greek guy and takes me to the President's home. I working in the President's home, Theodore Roosevelt. I make cement for 2 garages. EM: Did you enjoy working for the President? FK: I work over there and at noon time he bring me one gallon beer. I wait for bread and he no bring nothing. And after I work hard over there and I got brand new shoes and pants from Purees, Greek, country I buy. (He is trying to say that while he was in Pureas he bought new shoes and pants to come here and when he started working in the cement, they didn't tell him what kind of clothes he would need so he had to wear his new clothes). I come work for the cement, no tell me nothing. I started to working hard, you know, I finish. And after come the President, Theodore Roosevelt, and he comes here and he says, “Oh, by gosh, I thought one week here to working and in one day you finish!” He gave me one dollar. I pay car fares to go to the Madison Street, in Brooklyn live. On $.80 next two, three days no shoes and no pants. The cement make them break. EM: Did a lot of your friends come over with you? Any friends? FK: I got one of my sister's boys in New York. He's barber over there. But he's no good and I left him after from New York, and I go to Boston. EM: Did World War I influence the amount of people that came to Utah? FK: I came in Utah in 1910. NB: (In Greek repeats the original question of WWI's influence). 3 FK: No, no, no, I see in the paper Utah Fuel Company pays $7.00 a day to the people to cut the props in the mine. So I get the paper and I come out here. Big wastes only $1.00 a day you work. That's all. I came here and leave me in the mountains the train, down Cedar Mountains. I saw one little depot, one little toilet. I told to the man, which place I live now; the train no pass any more. One train in the morning at 11:00 pass from over there goes to Sunnyside (Utah) and come back. EM: This was in Sunnyside? FK: Yes, in Sunnyside and I sleep in the ties (railroad) that night. Put 'em some ties down there and get up, 17 July I remember that day. Next day I go up (Sunnyside) it’s a big holiday in my country. EM: Can you remember any of the laws or acts the government passed prohibiting any people coming over to the United States? FK: Oh, come lot of people. Lot of people you saw them. At the time I came I passed through Italy and Naples and another place too, from Italy--Rome. Over from two or three thousand women, (two or three thousand women came over from Naples and Rome). EM: When did most of the people come? NB: (In Greek repeats the question). FK: 1908. A Lot of people started coming that time. All over from Italy and all over those places. No fighting at that time Greece. No fighting from nobody at that time. Just starting (the fighting) Italy in 1909. 1911 (they) finish. Then after start the Greece in 1911 and keep going after, until Wilson.... 4 EM: Did a lot of people come after the War? FK: Oh yeah a lot of people. EM: Could you describe the founding of the Greek Church here? Did you help build it? (This is in Price). FK: I start first to collect the money. EM: Tell us how you collected it. FK: From collect the money from any people, I don't care. Mormons, Turks, or anyone. I told him please give dollars here to build the church and everybody give me. Of course I give receipts. EM: How did you build it? By hand or? FK: Oh the church, we put the man to build it. You know that Greek guy (mumbles in Greek) Ah! Arriba. He came from some place outside from Athens, some place like that. EM: Did you have a hard time gathering money from people? FK: Oh, no. I sent, I get every month—I collect $600-$650 I send them right to the bank. Yes I send them with the depot. We got post office at that time. After got one little one. Everybody to get money have to...go there. EM: What year was it finally built so you could hold services? FK: From 1914 I started to collect money. In 1915 started to build them, in 1916 finish. EM: Did you have the priest come over from Greece? FK: The priest come from the Greece same time she (his wife) come and marry to me. 5 EM: And what year was this? FK: Oh I marry up to Sunnyside. Yes, I no come down here (Price) because I got all my friends, Austrians, Italians, everybody working in the mine. All my friends (are) up there (Sunnyside). 640 Greeks up there. And I take the old power (house) and marry up there. It cost me $600. There were horses, and trucks, and everything at the time I got married. See the picture, I got the picture here. EM: Do you remember when the first school was built? Schoolhouse? FK: Who house? My house? NB: (In Greek) the first schoolhouse, when was it built? FK: (In Greek) the first hospital and school were built in about 1912, 13. EM: The new school (first) was built in Sunnyside, in 1915, 1914. FK: They played tall, they built a gymnasium, got tables for pool, everything they got up there. I started building my home from the rocks. (Told a man from Kentucky how he built his house from rocks and mud and he was amazed. The house he is talking about is a boarding house. Before the people were living in tents and when Bill, the man from Kentucky, saw his house they started making houses.) Before my time I come, they got tents up there. (Sunnyside) EM: The people lived in tents? FK: Six men lived in one bed. Like this—(indicates that they slept with their feet down). EM: Do you remember the Greek person who was mobbed? FK: You mean the priests? 6 NB: (In Greek) No the people hung a Greek person. FK: He was no Greek, he was Nigger. EM: He was Black? Why did they hang him? FK: Make trouble in Castlegate. In the coffeehouse. The Greeks and somebody else from over there report him and they take him some guys, Americans, and hang him up. They go outside from Price in a tree. From Sunnyside everybody take their guns, come down. Want to hang him. EM: Did you go too? FK: Oh, yes! NB: (Translating) the police people didn't get there in time. FK: At that time, you know, the jury—anything done, the jury did it (legal matters). No go in the court at all. Anything take it there, the jury. This told to me by Pete Jones. (Pete Jones at that time was the only farmer and he conveyed this information to Mr. Konakis). In 1916-17, I marry that time and I got a ranch there. EM: Was there a lot of crime In Price? A lot of thieving? FK: (Understood the question to be what Price had at that time). No Price no got nothing here. The time I come down just Bruffet (?) right down to the depots has the Bruffet, a lawyer. He got one place over there and after started Mike Salivourakis a hotel across from the depot. Then after below the tracks the French people build another building, some sleep the people. The people build them and build them every year so now got big place. 7 EM: Do you remember the Ku Klux Klan? FK: Oh, yes! That time I been in the ranch in Dugway and all over you see guys make ‘em fires and burn them up all the time. Burnt the cross. EM: Was it pretty bad? FK: Oh one time when I shoot to the sheriff and his Klan from back East, he (they) came to Columbia. Made a lot of trouble. EM: Were there a lot of Mormons here when you came? FK: Mormon? Well Mormon Church, they got up there (Sunnyside) one church that's all they go, little one. The Mormons make it. The Greeks (populated) most, 640—Greeks no go work, mine closed, no work. After, the superintendent told to Charlie Georgedes, he die now, how many holidays got the year the Greeks. He told him every holiday and the night before the holiday at 9:00 the people heard the whistle blow, no work (the next day). EM: What time did you go to work? FK: No work the holidays. Every morning at 6:00 (on regular days). Then after they made two shifts, night and day. EM: Were there a lot of Italian people here? FK: Italians, they be at that time about 150, 175 something like that; Japanese about 40; Austrians maybe about 30, 35 something like that; EM: Now was this when you first came? 8 FK: Yea, some Serbians, I believe about 8, 9 Serbians. Not many people up there. If work the Greeks, work the Coke Ovens and work the mines (if the Greeks worked, the mines, etc. would be worked in; if they didn't there weren't enough other people to work the mines). EM: Was there any prejudices or any discrimination when you went to find a job? NB: (Translates it in Greek) did they ask you what nationality you were when you applied? FK: (In Greek) did they ask of race or nationality? NB: (In Greek asks more of the question about discrimination). FK: (Explains in Greek that there used to be a middle man that would negotiate between the mines and the applicant— job, that is--and the person looking for a job would have to pay the middle man in order to get a job). Had to pay under the table. (This middle man was Sklerios). He (Sklerios) was king in Utah—railroads, mines, everyplace. If you no pay him, no job. I hear that guy is now some place in Denver. But I hear no got nothing, working in the bar. Him and W. B. Williams that's all; they make the money and go in the Utah hotel, that's the place they spent all the money. But you no can get job if you don't pay $20.00. EM: Did World War II change the conditions in Price any? NB: (Translates the question in Greek) FK: From the War and after is when everything changed and became good--for the better of the country. From 1916 the situation started to change. Country since Wilson went to Europe got better. (Wilson's visit to Europe helped prosperity in U.S.). (There was) more money, more wages. (It) raised them up ten times better from before. Before work in 9 free in the mine. Thirty days make $39.00. One month I remember from one year I make $41.00. George Orphanakis--got two boys in Salt Lake now, lawyers—$25.00 he made, worked real hard for 3 or 4 years through holidays and everything, New Years, Easter Sunday, Christmas, all the time working. They would call to make coke. And no money, no. EM: When did you buy your goat farm? FK: Oh, I buy that, I rented Gus Mamakakis's place when I marry back in 1917. 1918 I be down to the Icelander. And after I get that place from the government in 1927 but I make proof 1939. EM: You bought it from the Government? FK: In ‘39 I make proof. NB: He bought it in 1927 but he had to make sure it was his. The Government made him show proof and he showed proof in 1939 that's when it was final. EM: What did you have to do to show proof? Did you have to sign some papers or what? FK: Oh, yes I sign the papers and send to Franklin Roosevelt in '39. EM: Where did you buy your goats from? FK: That time. (Bought all from the government at the same time). EM: Could you tell us about your goat cheese and goat milk market? FK: Well, I send them all over: New York, California, Chicago, Denver. All over I send them cheese. NB: Who delivered this cheese? 10 FK: I send them with the depot. EM: With the train? FK: Yes, yes. EM: Did these people come and visit your farm? Or did they write to you? FK: Write to me, yes, write to me. EM: So you were pretty famous, right? FK: Well, write to me there in New York. And these crazy Greeks and Italians come and get the cheese. EM: What kind of cheese was that? FK: Oh, all kinds. EM: What are they called? FK: They call, the kassere-the dry, make the other Roman cheese for macaroni, make that fresh feta, dry ricota in Italian and mizethra in Greek I don't know what they call in American. EM: Did a lot of people come over to your house to visit you? PK: Oh! Lots of people come. EM: Did they buy your cheese? PK: Buy the cheese and fresh milk. Every week come the people. We don't know some, come from Durango, Colorado, come from all over. EM: Did you grow any crops or did you just have the goats? 11 PK: Oh, by gosh, I make the pumpkins, 130 pounds each one. Send them to San Francisco to get the first prize at the fair. Make potatoes, watermelons, cantaloupes, fruit trees. EM: Was it hard to sell these? Did you sell these? FK: Sure I sell these. I sell (vegetables) green stuff. I make more money from sell the green stuff. EM: Now what is being done with your property now? FK: Now? I got rent them to the Pete Munis. French people. EM: Do you still have the oil well on your property? FK: Yes, (In Greek says he still has it but is now capped). EM: How did they ask you if they could drill for oil? PK: Well that company now dose 'em (the well) up and leave 'em. Now I rent them, George read the papers. (The company is a gas company from Salt Lake City). EM: Do you think you'll be rich some day? FK: I be more rich than anybody because I got 48 grandchild’s already now! EM: 48 Grandchildren? FK: Yes, sir. EM: How do the Greek people feel about the grandchildren? FK: Oh feeling nice! Best! Now 18 married already. Yes, 18 married already. EM: How many great grandchildren, then? FK: Fifteen, no sixteen. 12 EM: Well, it has been nice talking. Is there anything you would like to say? FK: Well, what I say (I could) say all day. But now the country is different, the United States. First time I come here, people hungry. Theodore Roosevelt no look nothing except look go hunt deer, and go hunt the stuff that's all. Wilson's time, be all right. From Wilson be alright. It's nice. EM: How is the United States different now then? FK: Oh yes, is different. EM: You like it better now? FK: Sure! My God, you figure the time I come here be 65 million population. Now it’s 200 million. You figure now the time I been in U.S. 65 (million) that's all. EM: What about the trouble we are having in the U.S. now? Was it worse before? NB: (In Greek translates the question). FK: They have trouble now but it is a lot better there is still more opportunity now. There is more money for everyone if they want to work for it. (Translated by Nick--said in Greek) FK: Before you know you see them beggars, a lot of beggars now lot of work. EM: This is Elaine Markos interviewing Fotis Konakis with Nick Bapis interpreting. We must end our interview. Would you like to say good-bye? FK: Alright, good-bye. EM: His wife Mrs. Konakis would like to say good-by, too. EK: All right, goodbye. 13