Oral History Program Ronald Pace Interviewed by Bronson Pace 22 March 2014 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Ronald Pace Interviewed by Bronson Pace 22 March 2014 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Golden Hours Senior Center provides services to many patrons in Ogden, Utah. In 2014, the public history class conducted oral histories with several of these community members, covering topics such as World War II, education, segregation, Weber State University, Ogden City, and 25th Street during the 1940s and 1950s. These interviews add to the community history of Weber County. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Pace, Ronald, an oral history by Bronson Pace, 22 March 2014, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Ronald Pace March 22, 2014 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Ronald F. Pace. The interview was conducted on March 22, 2014, by Bronson Pace, in Ogden, Utah. Ron discusses his recollections of the experiences that highlight his life. Jessica Pace is also present as the recording technician. BP: Let’s start with when you were born, Ron. RP: I was born November 25, 1936, during the Great Depression, right in the heart of it, the worst depression that we have ever had in America. My parents had two other children at that point and I was the third child. My older brother, I think, was affected most by the depression, it was hard to get the chance to do things at the time. Of course, I was young and I was born in an old home that my parents rented and we stayed there for one year. On my first birthday, we moved across the valley and my dad had purchased a Texaco service station. BP: Where is this at? RP: In Hoytsville, Utah. The first thing they used to talk to me about is that we moved into this garage, but we were happy to have anything. I was a one year old, and stood up in the high chair and when my father walked in and turned around to talk to my mother, I jumped and threw my arms around him. He didn't know what was happening, so he took a step to the side and I fell and broke my collar bone. That's the first thing I did that I remember them saying. I lived in that home until I went off to college. BP: That would be tough growing up in the Great Depression. How was it during your school years? 2 RP: There was my older brother and my sister Leah Pace, the three of us that was a tough thing to endure in life. Some years later, we took a lot of the stuff at the store. My father was number one, a McNess salesman, and number two, the war broke out, and although he had a bad foot and couldn't go to war, he got a job working for the United States government. He worked nights guarding the railroad, then came home and sold McNess products. Some years later, in going through various papers, he usually would make ten cents a day, so practically nothing. He had a tendency to give stuff away that was worth ten or fifteen cents, which was a lot of money back in those days. And since we had moved into the store, my mother attended the store and my father worked on expanding it until we added a room to sell tires. My older brother and I would work at the store and fix the tires and sell groceries. My mother was there and would keep track of it all, and that was kind of an interesting look of what life is all about. I don't think my dad ever made more than a dollar a day selling products. Finally we had made a basement at the store and we would sell things out of our garden to keep things going. We were in better financially than a lot of people. Our store was across the road from the church. The church played a dominant role in my life because there were no bathrooms at the church so they would come across the road and use our bathroom. We therefore made a separate bathrooms for them to use. There was no water in it, we had a bathroom for those who would come to the store and another for our home. It is almost impossible for someone living in today's world to know what living like that was like. BP: You talked a little about the war. What was your affiliation with that? 3 RP: The war broke out in December of 1942. BP: What was your life like during that time? RP: Well, by the time I was age six, we bought a horse. Queen, was her name. I would get on that horse and deliver the newspaper with the Deseret News which was a ten mile ride as a six year old kid. To this day, I know all the families I delivered to. I had sixty-five papers to deliver. Usually they would see me coming on the horse. We had a thing called a stage, which was a truck that would bring the newspapers out from Salt Lake to be delivered by me. I would put two bags of paper, one on one side of me and one on the other. There was no saddle but these bags would hold me on and I would go deliver them. They would come meet me outside when I came to deliver them. I was too young to read, but the people would talk about what was going on. I still remember the day Japan bombed Pearl Harbor and declared war. They got in one of the cars that had a headlight and rang a bell and you would see them driving down the street, maybe the only car in town. They would say, "We are now at war with Japan." BP: What about life afterwards, getting into your school years? RP: Well, of course, the Hoytsville Elementary School was right across the street and down a house from our store. The thing I remember most is every morning they would have a parade where the kids would walk around the school and the kid whose parents would devote to poor would hand it out. It would usually be one or two pennies or ten cents from the whole class. There were five people in my class and there were two rooms in the school so we had three classes in each room and two teachers for six classes. It's hard to explain to people what it was 4 like because nothing was the same as it is now. Every Saturday we would have some kind of drive and we would walk around in the crevices and places and watch the trucks go by. When we declared war on Germany, Japan, and Italy. So we had a major task. We went after it and won. BP: What high school did you go to? RP: North Summit High School which was located in Coalville. I still remember as a kid, my dad got a job as the war went down. He drove the school bus and he passed the test and therefore and he would start in Rockport and drive to Coalville picking the kids up and when he got there he would stop. I was in 7th grade, would drive a two seated car to Coalville and he would get in his and drive to Coalville and work at the store. I would drive the car back to Coalville to pick him up. When I got to be sixteen and needed a driver’s license, I went to the court house and the guy said he'd give me a test and so we drove around the block. We stopped and he said, "You failed. If you're going to go backward you have to put your arm on the seat and look backward. Come back next week and put your arm on the seat." I said "I have to get back in the car and go drive to get my dad". He said “I know you have to drive for your dad, so you can go drive home and come back next week." So I got my driver's license the next week. Most kids would ride the bus to school, but I would drive my car. Things started to change by then, the war was gone, the economy started to get better. BP: Are you starting to date, play sports, and work on the farm? How did you balance all of that? 5 RP: We didn't have a farm yet. As a ninth grader I went to play sports. The church had a volleyball, softball, and basketball teams and so did the adults. I started playing those games with the Hoytsville ward. We would have teams come from Ogden and Salt Lake. They would have lights on poles, so you could play at night. The Browns decided to make stainless steel milk tanks. It was a big deal, because everyone wanted to work there. As soon as I got into the ninth grade, I would go work at the store and then for the Browns. We then bought six acres from another family there. Every day I got up and realized there was a lot of work to do and that was kind of my life. When we go to into the ninth grade that was very difficult, you had to catch the late bus to go home. I got on my basketball, football, and baseball team at school. I did that all through high school. We had some pretty successful church and school teams. When I got back from the mission field and got married, the church still had an all-church program. When I got married we had a ward that had some pretty good athletes. We went and played on a church wide basis with people from all over. People from California and all over would come over to compete. When I first got married I played for the Pioneer ward in Provo, and we would play for the championship in all-church and finally won it two years in a row. I got hit in the face and broke my nose. I went to the doctor and that ended me playing for the all-church. Athletics was really part of my life. In today’s world, if you can dribble a basketball you can be on a team for North Summit. I played for them every year and we went to State. I was the high point man for a couple years. I played football and basketball for 6 North Summit. So when it came time that I could graduate, I got a scholarship for Weber College in Ogden. For them I played football and basketball. BP: Was this before or after your mission? RP: Before. BP: Let’s talk about then, the years after high school and going into the college. RP: I graduated from North Summit. There were twenty-nine people in my class. They got me to be in charge of the reunions thereafter. I was not into dating very much. I was into athletics and sports. Once we got to Weber College, there were a lot of cute girls there! My closest friend from Hoytsville got married and asked "Aren't you going to get married?" I said "Probably not. Maybe?" He told me that he noticed I had been bringing a girl named Donette Brown home in Hoytsville. He asked if I could marry her and I said "I could so." He said he would get me a diamond ring. I was working for Browns and was going all around the United States as far back as Arkansas installing milk tanks. I was going to Weber College, playing football and basketball. I was driving a lot to work. I was attending Ogden 37th Ward. That's around where Donette lived and I lived over on 3184 Eccles, right there in the basement. I had my buddies who played on the football team staying with us. They didn't have any student housing. There was a chiropractor and his kids have gone into chiropractic’s over on 12th Street over there. Here it was, I had finally gotten Donette and proposed to her. Then I went up back to Hoytsville to go to church once and the bishop said "Oh, hey, I need to talk to you!" I went into his office and he says, "I'd like to call you on a mission." Well it was the end of my sophomore year, the last year at Weber. Utah 7 State had sent a guy down and proposed I go to Utah State on a full-ride scholarship and play football at Utah State. I got engaged to Donette to get married, so I walk in and he's calling me on a mission. I said “Are you sure? I'm not very sure." "Well you've always been very active and we want you to go on a mission." I think I was one out of three or four people from Hoytsville that went on a mission in that period of time. So finally I talked to my parents, they said yeah they'd like me to go and we'll help you financially with it. I accepted the call to go on a mission and good grief that changed my life quite a bit there. I had realized this girl that was I was dating was a little too short. I wanted a girl taller. She was very popular, pictures of her in the Weber yearbook, type of thing. Alright, she'll wait for me, I'll go on a mission. I got called to Minnesota and it was quite a change. They said it'll be cold there. So I got a coat and once I got out there they said "That is nothing, you've got to have a big warm thing. Fifty below zero here often and we were out knocking on doors." Anyways the main life changing experience is I'm in the place where the Mayo clinic is. You know the Mayo clinic? Well it had to be in Minnesota and the Mayo clinic is, I think even today the premier medical facility and my companion was a kid from Ogden here, and we were there together and a lot of the people we taught were doctors from the Mayo clinic in Utah here. There I got acquainted with them and Elder Obathes said "Hey somethings happened here, what it is?" "My brother's just been released as the president or the head of the mission in the Netherlands and he's coming through and so if you don't mind he's going to 8 stop and stay overnight with us." But we got to pick him and bring him back he said "Oh, that'll be fine." So he comes in, Robert Obathes, he lives in Ogden right now, in fact I've talked to him. He's a very nice guy. He came up to me and he said, "What is that picture on the wall or the window there?" I had put Donette's picture there. "Who is that?" "Oh she's the girl from Ogden." "Oh that's where I'm going, I'll stop by and talk to her." I said, "Oh that'll be great." So the next thing I know she sends a letter to me saying that she's going out on a date with him. I wrote her and said, "Well I don't mind you going out on a date, but don't be wearing my engagement ring and stuff, just send them back to me and you date whoever you want." So she sends the rings back. I had about another six months before I'd go home, so finally I kind of just broke off that thing at that point, came back to Ogden and she seemed too short. She's still around here and lives in North Ogden here. I said, "I don't know." I got back on the first of November, 1959, and they said what are you planning to do? I said, "Well I've got a full-ride scholarship to play football at Utah State. A buddy of mine up at Eccles said, "Well while you're waiting, why don't you ride down with me to Provo because I’m going to BYU." He was a returned missionary but he worked with the state to earn some money to go to BYU. I said, "Ok I’ll go down with you." So we rode down in his car, he got a brand new Pontiac convertible. We rode down there he said, "What do you do to get here?" He said, "Well, you see that girl that’s talking?" So I walked up to her and said, "Hi how are you? What do I need to do to go to BYU?" 9 "Well, where have you been the last couple years?" "I've been on a mission for the church in Minnesota?" "Oh good. Well what did you do between graduating high school or did you graduate high school?" "Yeah I graduated high school." "What were you doing?" "Well, I went to Weber College." "Well, what were your grades like?" "Good." "Well that’s great, the only thing you'll have to do is come up to the window tomorrow morning and you can go to BYU." And of course at that point they were on a quarter basis so we would start in January. Well, okay I'll just be with my buddy but there's no place to eat or anything like that or where to live? What are we going to do? Ride in your truck back to Coalville? He says, "No I was just talking to some guys and they rented a house and they're calling it the House of Israel and we'll put three people per room and it makes it pretty cheap. Twenty-five dollars a month for a place to live and there’s another home that has been populated by some girls and they will come over and fix supper for us every day. "Oh good, so what’s that cost?" "Well about thirty dollars a month for food and board." "Oh well that's pretty good, I can go here till fall?" 10 "You've never been to BYU, we call it BYWoo because it was a good place to meet girls to marry." So we had a dance every day and others and lots of places to go and so I made an agreement with one of the girls that I'd dated that I'd go to the Cougar Eat, which is by the Joseph Smith Building and I'd meet her and dance with her, then go down and eat hamburgers for dinner and I walked into this room and it was bare except for one girl sitting in a seat. The girl I came with wasn't quite through dancing yet and I was waiting for her. So I walked over and said, "Is there someone sitting in this seat here?" There were chairs all over the place. So she moved her books over and said, "Yeah, come on, sit down." And her name was Ellen Bonelli and she was from Kingman, Arizona, I've never heard of such a place. I asked her if she'd like to go out to a movie that night. I looked at her and she was a taller girl and fit the bill, so by the end of the summer I'd ask her to marry me. Now her sister called, Mary, and said she wanted to get married to Don Ashworth and she was wondering if us guys were thinking of getting married or anything? I said, "Yeah, I think we'll do that, just ask her how we can work it out." So we did, got married on September 21, 1960. BP: What was that like? Let’s talk about early marriage." RP: Well, by that point I was twenty three, something like that and she was about that, she's six months younger than me and we asked to get married, but I had a problem. I was going down to school and BYU, but I also had a job in Coalville. So I'd go up and work there and in the summer I had to go into the reserve, I was in the united reserve. I'd got back and gone back to work and usually the other 11 people would come and take your place, two to three people wouldn't be there so you'd have to for sixteen or eighteen hours or something and then I'd go clear down to Kingman, Arizona. Holy Camoley that's a long ways away. But finally your grandma got in the car and came back and was going to BYU School and so we decided to get married and she said "Well, why don't we do it in December?" "No, no, no, if we're going to do it, we might as well do it now." So we got married and rented an apartment, and I got a job working at the Dairy at 1 in the morning and when I graduated from college we didn't owe a penny to anybody. I worked there and had jobs on the weekend, working at the store. I worked up on there at the oil wells. That was a tough time in life. But finally here comes James along and it was wonderful. BP: When was that?" RP: He was born on July the... what is it? About the 28th or 20th, 1961, just about a year later and then lo and behold comes Jon along and when was your dad born? BP: ‘63 RP: So just two years later, just like you and Brock and then I had a rather shocking event. My wife had two children and she got sick. And it put her in the hospital and they couldn't figure out what was wrong with her and I didn't know what the heck was wrong with her. Do you know what was wrong with her? She's still here and has the problem. BP: I know the radiation... 12 RP: Yeah, she got a job working for the atomic test site down in Nevada a hundred miles. We had gone there and left it and got up there and she looked healthy enough to me. After that second child, your dad came into the world, she was in the hospital. The doctor called me and said you have a tough decision to make. I said "What is it? What are you talking about, I got to get up at two in the morning and work at Hot and Dairy." "Well you might have to change your things a little." "Well what is it?" "We're not seeing any progress in her getting better, can't figure out what's wrong with her, but it looks like it's not getting any better. So your decision is for you to take her home and let her die at your home or she can stay in the hospital and die. Which decision would you like to make?" You think that's a tough one? I don't think you've had any problem like that. She was ill and my sister had come down, Joy, and watched the boys, James and Jon. He said what's your decision? And I said well I just graduated from BYU and I got into the... where's that book? That's my master's thesis. This I wrote to your grandmother, appreciated her and everything. Family had a lot to do with this. 'This thesis by Ronald F. Pace is accepted its present for by the Institute of Government Service of BYU satisfying the thesis requirements for the Masters of Science' There it is. BP: What was the thesis on? RP: I was testing out one of the theories how a person wants to get into politics and certain developments occur. Kind of an interesting thing. The guy that was in 13 charge of it with me was Dr. Grove, head of political science department. He said, "Well that's good enough for a doctorate degree." I said. "Well I’ve got to leave and get out of Provo." Geneva and Ironworks, I thought that was the problem. So I took off and went to Oregon and taught school in Oregon and it was kind of an interesting thing because it's an Indian reservation. Most of the guys were this tall, short Indians. But they were nice good kids. I liked them and I accepted the job of being the head basketball coach and head baseball coach and the assistant football coach and assistant track coach, so I was teaching about six classes. So we headed up there and she seemed to be better, but then in about a month or so she was in the Corvallis which is about fifty sixty miles away and not living very well. After two years there, that was part of my life, the baseball team for the first time, and they were pretty good baseball players. Some of them were bigger strong kids, but we went into Multnomah stadium in Portland and played for the championship of our division, small schools, and won that. So in fact I remember when I announced I wasn't coming back next year because the climate seemed to be part of the problem. We needed to do something about that. So I had your grandma write out a bunch of resumes looking for a job, about fifty and got fifty replies. It was a good deal. And she seemed to get a little bit better and we finally moved and headed back to Utah when school was over. I still remember one thing about that, the kids got up in the final assembly in Oregon and applauded for a half an hour. But they wanted to try and influence me to stay, but I went back or went back to California, but on the way back we went to my parents in Hoytsville for about a month or less and 14 they put the church farm up for sale and asked me if I'd like to buy it. I said, "I don't know much about it." But I said yes. We could. "Well you need to come to raffle to draw names for those who want to buy it. There were about fifty people which he mixed up and the high counsel men came and picked it and "Ron Pace." That's how we got into the farming business. But we've moved down and went on teaching at El Central on the border of Mexico and California and I was the assistant basketball coach and football coach down there and it was kind of the middle of the basketball season. I got a phone call from the superintendent of North Summit who was the superintendent when I was there, but offered me a job teaching and he said, "I heard you bought a farm up here and you could make just as much money farming and teaching." So I accepted. Your grandma had gotten a lot better. I thought, whoa, she had found a way to handle it. We went up to Utah and I got into the house up there and we played for championship of basketball in the state in that division. For the first time in North Summit's history, we won the state championship in basketball and as soon as that was over, I announced that I would be leaving to Ogden because you know, she started to get worse and we came back here and it's a mile high in Hoytsville and it's not as bad here in Ogden. We moved in over at the terrace and had our, well two came in Hoytsville, Laura and Maria, then Diana was born here. Then the day that Ronna was born, we moved into this house. I've had two boys that were crazy and nuts. They'd get in the old pick-up truck with me after school and we'd be done by ten o' clock. We'd ride clear over to Coalville and feed the sheep and feed the cows then drive all the way back. I taught school all day, usually Jon 15 would sit on my lap and drive the truck while I'd sleep, or James would do it. So that's kind of where we've come from. BP: To wrap it up, you came here to Ogden and then where were you teaching? RP: Bonneville. BP: What subjects were you teaching? RP: They had an opening for the Advanced Placement American History teacher, that’s always been my thrust. And so I accepted the job. I worked very closely with Weber College's history department until 1970 something after I retired. BP: So you also have some farms? RP: We kept the farms going. I was there with Jon until way late last night. BP: What farm? RP: Peterson. BP: When did you purchase that? RP: Well, that's your dad's doing. He got married and had these two little boys. He was at BYU and he purchased the Peterson Farm. He convinced me to buy the farm with him and he would live in the house and commute to BYU. We've only got another year or two until we've got it paid off. We used to travel to Hoytsville that was fifty-seven miles. This is much better. BP: Currently what's going on? How many grandkids do you have? RP: You'd probably know that better than I do. I've got two great-grandkids and one on the way with you and Jessica. It’s all worked out. BP: You’ve had a good life. RP: Yeah, there's still a lot of possibilities.