Oral History Program Blaine Parkinson Interviewed by Sarah Layton Circa 2001 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Blaine Parkinson Interviewed by Sarah Layton Circa 2001 Copyright © 2025 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. 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It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Parkinson, Blaine, an oral history by Sarah Layton, circa 2001, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Dr. Blaine Parkinson conducted circa 2001 by Sarah Layton. Dr. Parkinson discusses his involvement in the development of programs in Weber State’s teacher education department before and during his time as dean. SL: I'll just stick it right here. That should be good. You were saying that the four or five of you were pretty close, a close-knit group there. I think he said the closest you'll ever find at the college, or something like that. BP: That's right. The entire faculty, at that time, we started out small, so a very nice working condition usually. He hired Pete. We're very, very compatible and have very similar goals and ideas. Everybody has different ideas, but they were all willing to give us some of their preferences and cooperate. SL: So, were you the first one hired out of the group? Is that why you became the director over the...? BP: All of us, we went there in about '62. There used to be a little kind of building, just east of the building there, the science building, the last one. Is that what it is now? SL: I think so, the like technology— BP: Anyway, the little tiny wooden building that we called the Cub. It was [unintelligible]. We were about four or five at the start of it and slowly added faculty and moved to the basement of the library until we... It's not building, built [unintelligible for eight seconds]. SL: [Laughing] That's a nice thing. Okay, so you took over as dean, and for about how many years were you dean? 1 BP: Seven. SL: Seven years. What would you say would be the one or two major accomplishments that happened in that time span that you were dean? BP: Did he tell you about that program? I don't know the teacher education— SL: The will kit program? Yeah, he told me lots about that and he told me that you were the director over that. BP: You asked why I was a director. I was the director because I was interested in it. Four or five of us decided to try to, what could we do to have a good quality teaching position? Dr. Adamson in second there and Dr. Ferrin [unintelligible], and Justin [unintelligible]. I don't remember who else was at that meeting. We talked of this idea of having an entry-level program and identifying very clearly what this competency for a teacher needed and then teach them those competencies and let them check out, rather than just going to class so many hours, they would pass when they got the skills or competencies. So, we went in the Union Building and got a room, and said, "Let's just stay here till we get some good ideas." [Laughing] It takes all night, and we talked about it. At that time, we had an affiliation with the Rocky Mountain Educational Laboratory. It was a federal-funded program to try to improve education. It was a national scope and headquartered in Denver. They [unintelligible] the college worked half time with them and half time with the college. I volunteered for that, and as a result of that did a great deal of traveling to visit public schools that were doing things differently. 2 I traveled [unintelligible] a Catholic nun named Sister Thullerman from Loretto Heights College in Denver. We took several trips together. She was a lovely person, very bright, very good educator. So, I was exposed to quite a few ideas. I think out of that I got the idea. There was a program a man named Swenson, Carter Swenson, I don't know if that's his name or not. Anyway, they had little modules for public school students to take. I've been trying to think of the name of those. As we talked about our ideas in that little group, I mentioned these modules. I said, "Why don't we package the program and modules at this time?" Of course, everybody was contributing ideas, I can't say it was any one person. So, we then went to Dr. Burke and told him our ideas and he said, "Sure," because he was very supportive. That's the kind of dean he was. Most deans have an agenda, but Dr. Burke, his agenda was leading the faculty and supporting their ideas, because the faculty is diverse and I was an educational psychologist and there were people with different skills, different assignments, so everybody has ideas. SL: [Audio silent for eight seconds] from Carnegie? BP: Carnegie. But I wrote some of the grant proposal. I talked him into having [unintelligible] Gabriel [unintelligible last name], who was one of the professors at the University of Utah, polish it up so that it would sell good. So, I remember that and I remember I worked on it. I guess everybody must have written some of it. I can't remember how much everybody did. But we were given a grant. Again, we had money to develop the idea. We got money to develop the idea and to have 3 consultants come in. We had a lot of people come in who were nationally known around the country and talk to them about it and got ideas from them. I don't know if I had to do with further writing or identification, I think we did. I think we got $5,000 or something to begin, then we finished the grant request, and at that point they made me the director and kind of do that type of thing to get the grant together and everybody working on it and coordinate it all. Of course we were given the grant and at that time I became the project director to develop the modules and that whole thing. SL: How many modules did you eventually come up with, do you remember? BP: It was... SL: Lots? BP: I'm not sure. SL: The number 72 comes to mind. Could that have been right? BP: There's several for every course. That was an interesting project because our faculty then had to decide what they were teaching. They said, "All you gotta do, you've got to decide what you're teaching. What are the skills people ought to end up [with] when they've had your class?" Some people didn't know what they were teaching. They had all these good things they did, but they didn't what the objective was. They had this project and they had their notes and they had their routine they went through in the quarter, but when you pinned them down and said, "Now just what are the skills you want those students to have when they finish, so we can identify and 4 measure," they were hard pressed, a lot of them, to do it. Some much more than others. Some had no trouble at all and some a terrible time. Then we got a huge module and we just said, "You know, that's totally unreasonable." You just gotta limit it [to] certain key objectives, skills you want people to have. So, we went through that painful, really painful process frankly, because they [unintelligible] experiencing type of things to identify objectives, and then to try to cull them out to sort of a manageable thing. SL: It's hard to put definitions on—you know, I'm sure you went through a while that, is this even measurable? Can we measure a person's public relation ability? BP: You know, granted, it's hard to tell what a college education is. Sometimes you look at a college-educated person and a non-educated person, and you know they're different, because a college education changes people. But sometimes it's really hard to say, "Well, what are the differences?" Everybody took a different set of courses, but somehow their outlook and how they approach life and everything is different. You can tell people, usually. Many people educate themselves [unintelligible], so I know there's that element of education, just having met challenges and gone through the process no matter what it was. You know, that develops a person and develops their capabilities to meet a second challenge. Then, beyond that, a person going to be a teacher, there ought to be some other specific things that they can do. So, that was a very interesting process, and we tried and revised and [unintelligible]. I told them, "You've got to cut it in two. You've got to just 5 [unintelligible]." So, we finally ended up with a module and tried it and kept revising. SL: Yeah, I'm sure there were quite a number of years where you were in that revision process. BP: Have they told you about the new relations training program? SL: I don't believe so. BP: That was a very key element. There were some people that worked for FICO, and we heard that they were doing things in the nation's training. There was job corps operations that FICO had a job corps by the U up there. They're still there, those buildings are there. You know, the other side of the gravel pit at the mouth of the canyon. SL: Okay. BP: You know where that was? SL: No. I was... BP: Well, they had a job corps there. They'd take you— SL: Oh yes, I do know. Okay. BP: —Everywhere in the world, ‘cause they wouldn't normally let school out and just have work experiences. So, we were involved with them, but we [unintelligible] some of the people at FICO. So, we talked to them once and we contracted with them to make us a human relations training program. Compare the word sensitivity training, or there were lots of words going around then, and it was a very popular notion to have these types of programs. 6 They varied greatly, even new training, what'd they call it? There were just all sorts of things, all sorts of labs to try to get people to see themselves and accept each other. They ran the gamut from the crazy to ridiculous. Dr. Allenson was a key mind in this. We told them the type of thing we wanted. We wanted to get sensitive to students and sensitive to what they're doing and how students are going to react to them. There was a program, a federal program, where they developed some materials, and it became sort of a model. I can't remember [unintelligible] used this now, but it has been used quite widely. But a fellow named John Campsnatter, he wrote the program for us. Of course, we tested it. We took the faculty [through it] first. Now, that was very interesting, because— SL: Oh, good idea. BP: —It put them all in the spot. But it was just a set of exercises. We would get together and we would present material and do a little game, and then we would talk about it. The group would go through, and we'd be on a first name basis, and people loved that. We called it the interaction and people loved it; the faculty liked it and they got to know students on a very first name basis. You know, there it's a very personal type of experience, but it made people much more sincere. Well, it made them more sincere, I don't [unintelligible]. SL: They still got that over there. BP: They still do it? What do they call it now? SL: It's the interaction lab. BP: Do they still do it? SL: Yeah, it's still the same thing. 7 BP: Did you do it? SL: Yes, I think it was my second... BP: Who was your leader? SL: Marilyn Lough Green, I believe. BP: How did it go? How did you like it? SL: Oh, it was great. It was great, because, yeah, we would do things to get to know ourselves, and we would do little games and role plays. So, yeah, that's still— BP: You know, that could have changed over the years, but that— SL: But it sounds pretty much the same. BP: Well, that was on the other year, you know, when they made a change. But that was a very important point of the program, both for the faculty, I think, and for the students, and the rapport we got with students. The fact that they're going to throw students out on their own, you now, they're pretty lost. But having had that experience and having a good time with the faculty in the beginning of the program, that sort of helped them be on their own and work on their own. SL: Tell me a little bit about your time as dean. Like I was saying, what were some of the big problems that came up? What were, in your mind, the biggest changes or the biggest advancements in the program during that time? BP: Can I ask you another question before we move on? SL: Sure. BP: Are you aware, do they have the operation center there now? Do they use the will kits now at all? 8 SL: No, they got rid of the will kits—I actually was just finding out about that this morning—I believe in '93, '94, with the new dean that's in there now, Dean Green. I found out that the College of Education didn't get accredited for two years, it was on probation, and then to get re-accredited they had to make some changes. But the basic things that you're telling me that I've spoken with Dr. Burke about too, they're all still there, but they've put it into a new kind of format. Right now, the focus is more on multicultural education, bilingual education, but you've still got the interaction lab and the really personal part of the education program. So I mean, the roots are all still there, but it's now in a different program called TREK, and it's like, Teachers... Oh, I don't know what it stands for. BP: It was an operation center where they did all the scheduling for students and give them the will kits and they'd pick the test. Maybe you're familiar with that. That was a key part. We published our own materials. SL: Was that on the second floor? BP: Yeah. Well, [unintelligible] the operation center. SL: On the top one? BP: Yeah. Then we got a little lift and we got a person to do it, and we printed all our own materials. SL: They've still got the printing stuff up there, but it's now the technology lab. BP: We had hundreds of people coming to visit us, and lots of schools bought them from us. They told you about the award we got, didn't they? SL: Yes, I've actually got the newspaper articles right here. 9 BP: So, the program was highly recognized, and we had absolutely zero problems getting credit. But the program, people aren't pushing it. People aren't committed to it. New people might have their own agendas, and it's easy for a program, [unintelligible] program, it wouldn't work. So, I have no idea. One idea, and I think the biggest thing is getting a graduate program. Dr. Burke had been working on that long before I became dean. But he did a graduate teacher education program for a master's degree. It was a combined program [unintelligible] University 'cause [that was the] only way we could get it. So, that was the... SL: Was that the first graduate program at the college? BP: Yes, and that was very tough. We had to sell it to the higher education and the school, and so that was amazing [unintelligible] working and [unintelligible] everybody excellent support on campus. You mentioned Sadler, he was always very supportive of teacher education, he and [unintelligible]. Anyway, I don't remember any other [unintelligible]. We're just continuing the program. In teacher ed, of course, I became involved in with health and physical education. You know, there were four departments. One after second ed, health, physical education, and child and family studies. SL: When did they put the child and family studies and the health into the college of education? Was that during your time or was that before? BP: No, that was before. SL: Okay. BP: Wasn't it always that way? SL: I don't... 10 BP: I'm not sure it wasn't always that way. SL: I don't know. BP: I don't remember. I thought it was. SL: Could easily have been, I just don't remember. I've read... BP: Because we were in that building. Just a matter of time to refine the program and continuing the thing we're doing. SL: You weren't dean when they built the new building? BP: No. SL: Okay, you were in the library at that time. I think Dr. Burke was saying that the place before you called it the tub was like Army barracks or something? Is that what it used to be? Something like that. BP: [Unintelligible] just the little things. SL: How many students did you have at that time in the college of education? 100, or...? BP: [Unintelligible]. SL: Okay, I was just... BP: [Unintelligible] see how many graduates we had back then. We probably had one section of each class. Well, I don't know if that's true. We might have a few sections of each class. Like I taught a class in learning theory, and [unintelligible], and [unintelligible] development. Those are the two classes I [unintelligible]. SL: Were there any big changes in the curriculum at that time that was being taught, or in classes that somebody said "Hey, we really need a class in this area," or a module? 11 BP: From that early period? Or when I was dean? SL: When you were dean, if there were any changes as far as curriculum went that you can remember. BP: Well, you can tell 'em I built the parcourse [laughing]. SL: What's that? [Laughing] The park horse? BP: Just east of the stadium, there's a mile little trail there with exercise stations, and that was the new idea of the country [unintelligible] in physical education. SL: You see sometimes the Army will use those things. BP: And lots [unintelligible]. I walk there, but then I go on beyond it every day. SL: What, the parcourse? BP: Yep, and that was, you know, exercise. We [were] just getting more people interested in jogging and exercise. SL: Well, that's a good thing. BP: But you have to have John [unintelligible], he's still a teacher, for the [unintelligible]. SL: Oh, really? BP: But in some family studies, in PE, I think we're both sort of growing and expanding, but I don't know any particular significant change in respect [unintelligible]. SL: That's okay. I've been really—I mean, when I first started this project, started finding things out, I was kind of like, "Oh, this is going to be some really interesting reading." But it's really neat to see how what you guys started, that a lot of it is really still there, and just to see sometimes there were little changes 12 made, but just the stability of the program that was set up from the beginning is really incredible, because you can't find that in other colleges and other departments. I have to commend you for it, 'cause it's just been great. I know that in my time over [in] the education building, I've enjoyed it. I've always wanted to be a teacher, and it's helped me a lot, so it's been good. BP: Well, we got a Teacher Corps project federal grant. Are you familiar with that? SL: I don' think so, I don't remember anything about it. BP: Right after we established the program, then we applied for a Teacher Corps grant. Bill McClaren, he and I wrote the proposal for that, and the federal government sponsored Teacher Corps project for the idea of bringing minorities into teacher education. So, we wrote one, a grant, to get them in. These are kids that might not normally go to college at all. We got Chicanos we would call them in that day, and Indians—we went down in the Navajo reservation for the Indian kids—and we had Blacks and whites, so there were really four ethnic groups. We got the grant. There were maybe 10 or 12 of these around, I don't know, maybe even 10, 15 around the country. So, we did get a grant and stuff that you teach toward, got a group in, and of course, running them through the program and getting them into public schools. It was a very interesting project, and, you know, it was a good project. SL: I'm glad you told me that. I hadn't heard anything about it, but that's the start. I mean, I think that's neat, because that's really where... The emphasis today is right on that, so that is neat that that's... 13 BP: I think this had some spillover in the entire college, because these kids were almost radical. They were very assertive and aggressive in promoting their agenda and getting known. You know, they wanted things, and it wasn't easy to handle because they weren't just a docile student that we would normally get here. They were outspoken and rabble-rousing, a lot of them [laughs]. So, it was a lot fun. It was a very interesting experience. And of course, it did us a lot of good, because we were exposed to the personality and the kids that we never would have met otherwise. SL: And this Teacher Corps, is that like an abbreviation for something? CORE, or it's just called Teacher Corps? Teacher Corps group, okay. I'll have to look. BP: You know, you might call [first name unintelligible] Ferrin. Dr. Ferrin would... They made him director of it, and [unintelligible]. These kids, you know, they stick up their lines and they were challenged, we were always challenging them. We got involved in lots of consulting out of the country. I went to Indonesia for a couple months. We kind of helped evaluate some of their teachers education programs and explain our program, going to [unintelligible] and Pohnpei. [Laughs] Do you know where Pohnpei is? SL: I have no—it's gotta be down by the Philippines or something somewhere. BP: Yeah, Pohnpei is [unintelligible] Hawaii, and half everything Hawaiian [unintelligible] this little island. Then of course we did a lot of consulting around the country, around the US, and a lot of schools wanted to follow our lead in the program, but they couldn't sell it to their schools, and they couldn't get cooperation from faculty. Those that were in-city usually buy modules and try 14 them and try to adapt them, but that let us know how important it was to have the right kind of leader and a faculty that could really cooperate, because it just changed it. SL: Did that seem to be the biggest problem with the other universities is they couldn't get—? BP: They couldn't get enough of the faculty to try and get support. SL: Is it just because they were, you know, they were set in their ways, just—? BP: They had their notes and they had their way of teaching and they knew what to risk. So, that was interesting, but we had hundreds of people coming from all over the world. SL: Yeah, that's right. It was like 800 or something was the number I found on that. BP: Is that right? SL: Yeah, there were like 800 visitors. BP: That was, you know, that's broad. We had a lot of them into our homes, and we went into their homes. I went to Texas once to [unintelligible], and I didn't know [unintelligible] these two black colors came up. I had no idea they were Black, and [unintelligible] Black college. I stayed in their home, and it was just a great experience, because you just don't have some of this [unintelligible]. SL: That is neat. Wonderful. BP: But I'm sorry, don't remember much about each of the cities that I've been. SL: No, that's fine. 15 BP: Just found the grouping [unintelligible]. I think there was... Much went on on the college level. We had a new president, and he was going to fire all the deans and find new people. That's when I went in as a dean. SL: Oh, that's what Dr. Burke was saying. He said it was a real surprise. BP: It was kind of a crazy situation. He just wanted to make a change. He was there a while and didn't last terribly long, so it seemed like there was a lot of college-level change, development, growth, growing changes. That's when you take my interest in molding the curriculum, because once you get to be a dean then, well, originally, the dean was Burke. He was quite close to the curriculum development [of the] teacher education program. The school got larger and got more faculty in all of the areas, the four departments. That takes a lot of your time. [Unintelligible] personal problems, and it's involved in the curriculum. I guess that's what makes [unintelligible] the graduate program [unintelligible] general administration to do this. SL: I guess the role of the dean would have changed in a developing program like that. All right, well, Dr. Parkinson, this information is wonderful. I'm definitely going to go see if I can find anything else in any books anywhere, any papers. I have been going through some files up at the archives. I've got Dr. Burke's file out and a bunch of stuff, so I'll see if there's any more. 16