Oral History Program Joe McCune & Dick Williams Interviewed by Reed K. Swenson Circa 1970s Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Joe McCune & Dick Williams Interviewed by Reed K. Swenson Athletic Director Circa 1970s Copyright © 2012 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Weber State College Oral History Program was created in the early 1970s to “record and document, through personal reminiscences, the history, growth and development of Weber State College.” Through interviews with administrators, faculty and students, the program’s goal was to expand the documentary holdings on Weber State College and its predecessor entities. From 1970 to 1976, the program conducted some fifteen interviews, under the direction of, and generally conducted by Harold C. Bateman, an emeritus professor of history. In 1979, under the direction of archivist John Sillito, the program was reestablished and six interviews were conducted between 1979 and 1983. Additional interviews were conducted by members of the Weber State community. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: McCune, Joe and Williams, Dick, an oral history by Reed K. Swenson, circa 1970s, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Joe McCune circa 1960s 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Joe McCune and Dick Williams. Mr. McCune and Mr. Williams were involved in the early professional history of baseball in Ogden, Utah. The interview was conducted by Reed K. Swenson, in the 1970s, in order to gather the recollections and experiences of Mr. McCune and Mr. Williams regarding Ogden baseball during the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s. RS: Martie Collett of Howell Library and Special Collections asked me to get Joe McCune, Dick Williams and Hansen Richie together and write up a partial history of the early professional baseball in Ogden. This account was made from some pictures, letters and other items taken in the early days that Joe McCune and others had. But, largely, it is drawn from the memory of those days. During the years of 1938 and 1939, Ogden was interested in having a baseball team in the Pioneer League. Many influential people of Ogden worked with the Cincinnati Reds to get a franchise to form a club. Most active was Al Warden and I can't recall others, but here is Joe McCune and he will tell you who was active in this year which set it up for the franchise. JM: Well, Reed, I think you were right. I think Al Warden should have a lot of credit for this, but he got such men as George Lowe, who was a prominent attorney, and Carl Hemingway, who was one of our local bankers and had a lot of interest in doing things for Ogden. I believe Mr. Hemingway knew Mr. Giles, who was the president of the Cincinnati Organization. But, through Mr. Lowe and Mr. Warden and Mr. Hemingway, I think they got Mr. Frank Browning really interested in it. 2 They were men that were in business. I recall Fred M. Nye was quite interested because he was, at the time, the president of the old Idaho-Utah League, which was years before. But, I believe Mr. Warden and George Lowe, and Mr. Harold Hemingway were the three that really put it together. RS: Well, that is good. There are so many things about it that you know behind the scenes. So, with this background and with this group of people, and with attorneys and motives and so on, President Warren Giles of the Cincinnati Reds baseball team, gave Carl their form director along with all of the people I've mentioned. They agreed upon the details so that the Ogden Reds were to be born. The first manager was "Wild Bill” McCorry, and at the same time, Joe McCune was elected as director. Now, what does a director do? How long does he work, and so on? JM: Well, being a director was an honorary position, and I never learned until years ago that Carl Hemingway was the man that turned my name in. I was given one share of stock in the Cincinnati Reds, which I held until the end of our League and then turned it back in. My relationship with Mr. Gaypaul and Mr. Giles was a good one. Mr. Giles ended up his career as president of the National League, and became a big man in baseball. Through Mr. Gaypaul, I was able to get tickets to World Series, which I went to several of, and the Ogden Reds grew right from there. Now, Bill McCorry, as Mr. Swenson has said, was the man who was sent here first to organize and I recall that the wind was bad out there. The Utah Power and Light made it possible for us to use this facility, but in two years, 3 we moved to John Affleck Park. The ground was donated for nothing but a park and the park is still there today. RS: Affleck was a businessman, wasn't he? JM: Oh yes; that the ground could not be sold for anything but recreation is the way he set it up. RS: That was in 1946 when we moved there after we had had a vacation from the war? JM: No. Well, we went out there a couple of years before they went into war because we were playing. We didn't play in 1945 or 1944 because we went to the World Series in 1945, John and I, which was in Chicago. RS: Ready Kilowatt Park—I was out there. The wind would blow from the mouth of the canyon. JM: Yes, I know. My wife would swear that she wasn't going to go again because there was too much dirt. RS: So again, this new location at Affleck Park was named after the man who donated the land and the money and so on, that built it. It has been a great asset to Ogden ever since. Now, the new Pioneer League was organized with J. P. Halloway. He was from Pocatello, wasn't he? JM: Pocatello. He was a druggist. RS: Yes, as president with six member teams, Ogden, Salt Lake, Pocatello, Boise, Twin Falls, and Idaho Falls. Then after the war—in 1946—Billings, Montana and Great Falls were added. JM: Yes, that's right. 4 RS: Now, you were also a director in that organization weren't you? JM: Yes, I stayed on as director. I was still director for the Ogden Reds and the Cincinnati Reds. I represented Cincinnati and the Ogden Reds. RS: Recount for us some of the very many interesting things that came about because you were director of the Cincinnati Reds. JM: Well, some of the things, Reed, was actually that I was able to go to all the games. I don't think I missed a game. I went on the road with them any time I wanted to. I had to make at least two trips a year to different towns. I guess the most interesting thing was that I would have a pass to any baseball park in the United States. I still have some of the passes that were signed by presidents of the Leagues. This doesn't mean just the Pioneer Leagues. This means the Coast Leagues, International, National Leagues or American League teams. I used my pass several times in San Francisco to go to ball games. The pay wasn't very much, but the honor I got out of it and being interested in sports made it very enjoyable. The people I met were also very enjoyable, including the directors from the other teams in the Pioneer League. I recall Dr. Logan. He was from Great Falls, Montana. I think [Heber] Scowcroft was our president at that time. We went up there, and Art Mortersen, a local flyer, flew and I up there. We got up there to the game and it snowed. Dr. Logan invited Scowcroft and I out to his home and Art Mortersen, our pilot. I remember Dr. Logan made a bet that Utah Power and Light would be higher in the next two years than Montana power. But, it was an 5 enjoyable trip. We didn't get to see the ball game because it snowed, so we flew back the next morning. Things of that kind are what was enjoyable. RS: How come you are letting us in on it now that you were a great man in those days and we didn't even know it! The next item that I think is important on this history is to tell about the employees found at the Ogden Reds ballpark. All of them are local boys, and I think you will see that they represented almost every facet of the whole community. Our business manager was Johnny Sarlowe, and Joe, what do you think about that choice? JM: John was—I don't think anyone else could have done that job. He was under Mr. McCorry when he first got here, for the first couple of years. But they could soon see that John not only knew baseball, he knew a lot more about baseball than all of those big league scouts that had come through here. John was sharp on figures. I recall when John and I went to the World Series in 1945, Mr. Sarlowe had to go in and see Mr. Giles, who was president, and so I waited out in the waiting room. Mr. Trockman, at that time, was president of the minor leagues—which there was fifty-four leagues at that time. I think today there are about twelve. But, he says, "How well do you know John Sarlowe?" I said, "Well, we grew up in the same town." I happened to be a director on the ball club when we were back there. He said, "You know, that young man makes out the finest report of transferring ball players." There had to be six different letters, the team the player is going to, where he's come from, and then it has to go to the minor league, and he said, "I've never had a man like that. I've never had to send back one report on Johnny Sarlowe." 6 RS: At the ball park, there were a great number of local employees that played an important part in the operation of the park and the games. We had Johnny Sarlowe as the business manager. The ticket sellers were Dewey Herbert, Clyde Woodcock, Jim Dawson, and Boyd Jeppson. JM: Do you know where they were from? RS: Dewey Woodcock and Boyd Jeppson were from the First Security Bank, and the other two were from Commercial Security. They represented different parts. Now, the next important was the ticket takers. There was Reed Swenson, Walley Badley, and George Hyde. You would think that that was a minor assignment, but anytime that things went wrong and people had lost their bets, they would come out and blame us for the ball players not playing correctly. We also had many different excuses to get in. We've had somebody that comes along and their dad is in there and he's got to see him because they are having trouble at home and could he please go in and then back out. Well, of course, we let him but he never came back. I think you could find more excuses for getting in, and if they were choice and you could not dispute it, we would let them in. But, if they ever did it a second time, why then, we would hold them out. But it was a lot of fun down there. Now, you had another one there at the concession stands, Dick Hendricks and Lawrence Burton. JM: Yes, Dick Hendricks left us and went on to be in charge of the concession stands at the University of Utah until he retired just a few years ago. I met him at the airport here not too many weeks ago, and he wanted to discuss all of the good times we had at the Ogden Reds Park. 7 RS: Another one that was in there was Carl Lancaster. Now, I don't know if he had any official connection with it, but at the end of a season he would always come in and buy for a very small amount, any of the supplies that were left over. Then he would sell them at the Lancaster Snappy Service for four times that price. Lawrence Burton, the other one in there, worked at the college and didn't get much money and decided to do other things to supplement that. He later became a very powerful political personality. The public address was by Lynne Folley. Can you tell me about him? That is the internal workings, isn't it? As a director you should know all about that. JM: Yes, Lynne was really dedicated. I didn't have to worry about Lynne being there on time. He was there, and he handled that public address system, and did it well. Like I say, when Lynne took over a job, he did it. If I was wanting anybody on my team to promote something, Lynne Folley is one man I would choose. RS: Yes, he played a very important part. Not only there, but also in the support booster clubs for Weber College. So much so that about three years ago at commencement, they awarded him the doctorate, so he became Dr. Lynne Folley, and it hasn't spoiled him at all. Now, the announcer was Len Allen. He was an announcer for KLO here in Ogden and took a very active part in many types of publicity. The next man was the score keeper which was Al Warden. He was score keeper, publicity and I don't know what else. What can you say about Al? JM: Well, I think Al has been missed more in our paper. Al was really—he knew more people than anybody I ever knew. You couldn't mention a soul—I recall one 8 instance in 1945, we had worked through the Ben Lomond Hotel, Mr. Atkins, through the Hotel Utah, and we must have spent somewhere around twenty-two dollars on phone calls trying to get a room. Rooms weren't very plentiful in Chicago and the furniture market was on at the same time. Al Warden came in my place one morning and said, "When are you leaving?" I said, "Well, Al, we got our tickets but haven't got a room." He said, "You come over at ten o'clock this morning." In less than two minutes, Al called Arch Ward of the Chicago Tribune. I didn't exactly hear what he was saying to him, but he hung up, and in about two minutes he said, "You're in the farm house." Now that's what kind of man Al was. RS: He did that, I know, when Governor Maw wanted tickets to the Kentucky Derby and couldn't get them. The Governor of the State! Al got them for him right away. JM: Al Warden could get tickets for any game that was going on. I remember another case about Al that Dr. Richey from Thiokol wanted to see the Army and Navy Game real bad. Now, as Mr. Swenson has said on different occasions that he knows he's got tickets. Four days is all that Dr. Richey of Thiokol gave Al. Al got him tickets in Philadelphia for the Army-Navy Game. Now that is the type of man that Al was. I had the pleasure of being pretty close to Al the last few years. He took me to Las Vegas to the Sahara Open several times and I think he has been missed in that paper very much. RS: Well, we had won the year. We had won the Intermountain A.A.U. and qualified to go to the A.A.U. Nationals in Denver. He called me and said, "Are you going?" I said, "No, we don't have any money. He said, "Give me a few minutes." He called me back within a half hour and he had raised enough money from the 9 people around town to take us over there. He drove his own car and I tell you I've never paid a cent. JM: Al Warden had a column in that paper that people enjoyed seeing. RS: He mentioned names. JM: Yes, he mentioned names of players that hadn't been here for years. Oh, he would have been great on this, wouldn't he? RS: Oh yes. The next one that I have here is the trainer. Now you know the trainer, Erick? JM: Bert Erick. I don't think anybody was as dedicated as that man—to be dedicated to the job as trainer and in charge of the locker rooms. The players thought an awful lot of him. He was there all the time. I don't think you could have gotten a man to do a better job than Bert Erick did for the Ogden Reds. RS: Well, now we have one more and that is the groundkeeper. Dick, you were groundkeeper in 1946. DW: 1946 to 1956. RS: What was your particular assignment? DW: Well, I really had a three-way assignment out there. I was not only ground-keeper but also club house boy. In other words, I cleaned the club houses every day, and also washed the player’s socks and shined their shoes every day. They gave me two dollars a month for that. Each player gave two dollars a month. Also, I cleaned the stands, picked up the paper, washed them down every day and our box seats. I had to take them out every day and wash them down also which was a major part of the job. 10 But, my main job was to get the field in play so the players wouldn't have any excuses on errors or things like that. The hardest part probably was keeping the pitching mound and home plate hard enough so the players wouldn't dig holes in it. This was also so that they would always be on ground level. I used to go out there in the morning and get it level, then I would roll it, and then I would put water on it and let the sun bake it. It was a mixture of clay so it packed down pretty good. Then on the infield, I would drag the infield and keep that smooth and watered down so it would be firm enough so that the players would have a good chance to catch all the ground balls. I used to mow the infield, and in those days, we didn't have any power mowers. We always mowed them by hand. So all the mowing of the infield and in the front of the dugout were all done by hand. I think the hardest thing, however, was to keep the ball park in shape—keeping the players from warming up in front of the stands because they would kill the grass. So, I had to make a rule that all warming up in pepper games was done below the warm-up boxes where the relief pitchers would warm up. They cooperated really well on that. That was one of my hard jobs—to get that so they wouldn't wear all of the grass out. RS: Well now, Dick, there were some other people who signed that helped with the grounds. What about the electrician? DW: Jim Francis worked for Utah Power. After work he would come down there after 5:00 pm and his job was to make sure that all the lights were on. He would be there during the game in case of a power shortage or anything. He would be there to repair it. But, I saw Jim there many times on top of those lights replacing 11 them before a game. I remember one instance. It wasn't him. It was one of his helpers that slid down the pole. He lost his belt. He lost contact there and slid all of the way down the pole. He ended up on his back and really injured it. It was quite upsetting to all of us. RS: Now, you also had some others there that were assigned by Mack Wade, the sheriff. Yes, Mr. Sarlowe always made sure that he had plenty of security there in case of any fighting or anything in the stands. So, he would have Mack Wade assign some of his deputies down there. Of course, the major ones were there every night. They were Jack Card, who was a former league player himself. He was pitcher for the Saint Louis Cardinals, he was there every night. Jay Reese, Ralph Spackman, Roy Hadley, they were there. I had a good relationship with those people because during the games the grounds were all repaired and I would go sit with them. We would have a lot of discussions on ball players and Jack knew his talent and we would discuss each player as they came in. We would try to predict the ones that would go on to the major leagues and the ones that wouldn't have a chance. That was always interesting for me to have a good relationship there. RS: Was there any other assignments with the people out in the score board? DW: Well, Mr. Sarlowe would always have some young kid out there. We didn't have an automatic scoreboard. What we would do in the press box is they would have a man up there and he would turn a red light on if it was a strike or he would turn on a yellow light if it was a ball. So the umpires would call the plays in the back of the plate then the people up in the press box would relay that by the light system 12 out on the score board. But John Sarlowe always had a young fellow to go out there and he would maintain that every night. He would put the number up there by innings. RS: You also had a couple of ball boys. I recall on one picture that Joe had, that Scott Ballif was one of them and Doug Sarlowe was another. DW: Yes, they were the bat boys at that time. You know, both of them have become great athletes around here. Scott Ballif went on in high school and was one of the great football players of Ogden High School. He coached at Wahlquist Jr. High, was assistant principal out to South Jr. High, and is now principal up the valley in Huntsville. Doug Sarlowe went on to be a good baseball player, good golfer, and one of the best bowlers around here. I think he is on the Hall of Fame of Bowling around here. RS: Well, that indicates that there were a lot of Ogden people who took a major part in running the park and the grounds and the stands and so on. They came from just about every section of town. They gave a lot of these jobs to young people. DW: We appreciated it because it gave us jobs during the summer doing something down here. We always made a little extra money and it really helped. RS: The Ogden Reds had at least five different managers during that time. The only one that I was particularly acquainted with was Wild Bill McCorry. He ran things with an iron hand. They did as he told them to do most of the time; if not, then he would have some problem about it. It was interesting, because he was the first and he was very impressive as a manager. He ran things the way he thought they should be. He was a good fisherman and I took him fishing with me one 13 time. We caught some small ones and cooked them. Hal said, "Let's cook them and eat them bones and all.” So he did that. But I said, "Let me bone one for you." He said, "You know, you had a much better idea than I did." But then, who were the others, Dick? DW: I'm acquainted with most of these others. The second manager was Earl Brucker, and he was a lot like Bill McCorry. He was very stern with his players, he had very firm rules and they had to obey them. They had to be down at batting practice on time and there was no fooling around. Everything was business with Earl Brucker. He was a good manager. Tip Clover was about the same. Tip was very firm with his players and he had a lot of rules and he made sure that he taught fundamentals to these young players. He also did a very good job. The next was Bobby Mattic, who came as one of the scouts for the Cincinnati organization. He came in the middle of the season and I can't remember whose place he took. He turned that ball club around in the middle of the season and as I remember, he got in the playoffs. Bobby was a very good fundamentalist and he was demanding of his players. They really hustled, and Bobby helped the pitchers a lot. The next manager was Butch Sheppo, who was a playing manager. He was the catcher, and played as well as managing, which is always a tough job. The thing I remember about Butch Sheppo was a personal incident. I was being the ground keeper in my spare time. I used to play a little softball. He said, "I don't know how you guys can miss hitting that softball." We used to joke each other about it a little bit. So one day I challenged him to a game after the season. 14 We would have a game between the Ogden Reds and our softball team. And we pitched softball to them and they would pitch hardball to us. We had two sets of bases, one softball bases and one hardball bases. We publicized it, we charged admission, and the players stayed around and we took in $2,700.00 which we gave to the ball players for staying around. Our softball team beat them 3-0. We always felt good about that. I always remember Butch Sheppo because of that incident. But, Butch was a good manager and got along with his players really well. He did a good job. The last one that I can remember was Dee Moore. He was a more loose manager with his players. He wasn't demanding but they wouldn't have to be at practice on time. But, yet, Dee did a good job and the players liked and respected him. But he is the last one I can remember, Doc. RS: Who was the manager when Ogden won the Pioneer League Championship? Do you remember what year that was? DW: Yes, I think it was 1953. RS: Yes, that's right. DW: But, I can't remember who the manager was that year. I know Vern Kilberg was the outstanding pitcher that year. I know he had over a 20-game season that year and he was the one that was responsible. But, I can always remember Vern Kilberg as an outstanding pitcher that year. RS: During that time, we had about fourteen pitchers and I will read them through and indicate which ones went to the majors—Clayton Lambert, majors; Eric Procowski, majors; Ken Lithga, majors; Hal Leif Erickson, majors; and Hal 15 Costello. Now the others that had great promise but didn't make it for some reason or another. Many of them went up higher in ranking. Cliff Ross, Stan Nocarotto, Don Guy, Hershell Highso, Bobby Long, Joe Frisby, Ken Lanning, Ray Esthes, and Vern Kilberg. Now, Dick, on these, tell something about each of them. You saw them in the workouts. DW: Well, Doc, besides these players that went to the majors, they had a lot of talent. They could throw the ball hard. Probably the one that had more talent than anybody but never did make it because of his wildness was that Cliff Ross. Cliff had a lot of talent; he could throw that ball as hard as anybody I've ever seen. He was a lefthander, but he just couldn't get the darn ball to the plate. He would walk so many every time, but Cincinnati stuck with him a long time before they gave up on him. They finally gave up on him. Stan Nocarotto was a good pitcher, but he was a temperamental guy. Everything had to be just right or he would blame it on everything. It was either the mound or something wasn't right with him. Don Guy and Hershell Highso were pretty good pitchers. They are the two that pitched against us when we had that softball game, and I remember them well. Grover Frisby, I thought, that was a little left-hander. That was a cunny thumber. That means that he had a lot of different speeds, a lot of different pitches, and had really good control. I thought he would go a long way. But, Frisby got married, had twins, and he finally gave it up because he couldn't make enough to support his family. But, he had a lot of ability. 16 This Vern Kilberg, he was the outstanding pitcher when Ogden won the championship. The only championship they won, and he was in over twenty games. I was sure that he would go all the way. I know he did move as far as Triple A Ball Club. I never did hear about him getting in the majors. But, they did have a lot of pitchers come through here and the ones that I can remember that went to the majors, you already mentioned. RS: Well, now, the next ones that we should say a few things about would be the catchers. The pitchers and the catchers seem to stand out strongly in any ball club. Here again, too, on these catchers, I recall many of them. But there was Oggie DeBarrow who was the first one. And he was around for quite a long time. DW: He played out at the old Ready Kilowatt Park. He is the first catcher that I can remember when the Ogden Reds came in. You know, we remember him a lot because he stayed around and married a local gal and was the announcer for the Ogden Reds for quite a few years. Eventually, he was the announcer for Weber College basketball games. He used to travel with us. RS: Dutch Dover was another. DW: Dutch Dover was another one of the finer catchers here, but I never knew what happened to Dutch after he left here. Of course, there was Ed Bailey. We all know him. He was a big bonus player when he came here. And in those days, $15,000.00 was a big bonus. But, Ed Bailey did go on to play for Cincinnati for quite a few years in the major team. Of course, Guy Wellman—we all know him because he came here twice. He was the one who was here one year and then 17 left and then came back. Then Doc, you remember, you hired him as assistant football coach and basketball. RS: Not only that, but he then stayed with us for about two or three years. Then he was called back to be a scout again, and was located in a little town just out of Chicago. I kept track of him for quite a long period of time, but I haven't heard much. He was a super guy. Ed Bailey was a super man. Now, your next one is Jess Gogger. DW: Jess wasn't a very big man, but he played well and had an excellent arm. He was one of our outstanding catchers. Doc, those are the only catchers I can remember. RS: Now, Butch Sheppo, our manager, was a catcher. But did he catch for us? DW: Yes, he was a playing manager. RS: Yes, that is right. Now, you have another here which is the players: infielders and outfielders. DW: Billy Herbert was one. He played out at the old Ready Kilowatt Park, if you remember. He was probably on the first team out there, great little hustler. He couldn't keep that uniform clean. He would get a brand new uniform on him and the first two innings, he would have it black because he was always in the dirt sliding or something. He hustled all the time, diving after balls. He was just an outstanding little ball player because he hustled so darn much. But, I remember Bill Herbert with a dirty uniform on and of course, Bobby Adams, one of the best players we ever had. He did go on to the majors, and then after that he was kept in the organization as a scout. I think he even managed down in the lower 18 league, down in the C or B Leagues. They really thought a lot of Bobby Adams. Bobby seemed to have all the limelight at that time. Probably one of the most colorful players we had was the shortstop Chico Terry. I tell you, there was a guy who could do anything. He could go to his right, he could go to his left. He had a great arm and he was just a fun guy to watch out there. Don Paylor was the third baseman, I remember. The only thing I remember about him is that when the team worked out, they would always come a week before their season started. So we would always go down and watch them work out. I remember we were sitting in the stands and one of the fellows I was with had to say, "Hey, that third baseman isn't going to last a week. They will send him out in a week." Funny thing about it was that Don Paylor was the third baseman the whole year and made the all-star team. Jim Baumer was a second baseman at Ogden, one of the outstanding ones. I remember Jim played a year or two for Cincinnati. Not too much, but I remember Jim made the majors. Johhny Tempos was probably the greatest short stop that we ever had here. I remember him because he played for Cincinnati for several years and did a super job. I remember they used to tell me about Johnny Tempos back there. Everyone knew him back there because he drove a purple Cadillac back in Cincinnati. Of course, Lefty Pearson, most people of Ogden know him. He was a local boy. He went to Washington Junior High, Ogden High School, and played American Legion ball. He tried out with the Ogden Reds and made it. He was there a year with the Ogden team. Burt Delayborn was one of the first early ball 19 players in Ogden. He was a short stop. He married a local gal here, and came back here to live. I saw Delayborn here last year and had a nice talk with him. He liked it here. It wasn't long after that that he died. Ed Cavanaugh was one of the classiest first basemen, and he was a left-handed first basemen. He had a lot of class around the bag; good fielder, and not a bad hitter. I thought he might make it, but I don't know whether he did or not. Dale Long was a first baseman also. He did a good job here. He was one of the homerun hitters. I don't know whether he went up to the majors, but I know he went up as high as Triple-A ball. Jack Cassini was always your favorite. He was a second baseman and he could run like a deer. Every time he got on base, he would excite everyone because he would steal it every time. I know he used to talk about Jack Cassini all the time. I saw him steal home one night. Somebody told me earlier, Joe McCune said that Wild Bill McCorry jumped all over him because he went on his own and made it. Probably he won the ball game for them. But, he was a colorful one, no question about that. Yes, the colorful ones—that Chico Terry—the crowd used to get excited about him, and Johnny Tempo. He would go to his right side and backhand that ball way down in the grass and make that throw to first base. Boy! He used to get a hand. That is the talent you need is as shortstop. Another shortstop there was Bob Murphy. He was a big, tall short stop. At least, he was tall for a short stop, but he would cover a lot of ground and he was pretty popular with the Ogden fans. Billy Ford was third baseman. But, after Bill left here I don't know how high he went. I remember Dave Bristoe. He was a 20 second baseman here. I know Dave went to Triple-A and I don't remember whether he ever went to Cincinnati or not but I know Dave had been a manager to two different teams in the major leagues. It seems like one of the teams was Milwaukee for a few years and right now he is one of the coaches for a major league team. So, Dave really went high in professional baseball. RS: Well, now we have a couple of outfielders. I remember a lot of those because all of them were great hitters. In the outfield I remember Pete Hughes. He wasn't a great fielder, but he won many a ball game for Ogden with his heavy hitting. DW: Yes, Pete Hughes was probably known for his homerun hitting. He was always putting them in right field because he couldn't run. When he came to Ogden, he was a little bit older than most of the ball players. He had been around but he had broken both ankles and for some reason he always walked like a duck and he couldn't run very fast. But, they would put him in that outfield and he would do the best he could. When he got up to bat he was a potential homerun every time he got up there. I saw one game where Ogden was losing by six runs in the last inning of the game and with his starting a rally and a homerun with the bases loaded, we won it. He played at the Ready Kilowatt field with the wind and he still would hit the ball against the wind and hit it out of there. Probably one of the greatest ones that we had in the outfield was Frankie Robinson. RS: Yes, when Frank Robinson would hit the ball, that ball would go over the lights and so far out of that ballpark. One of the longest balls hit was by Frankie Robinson. 21 DW: He was an outstanding player in both major leagues. He was the first black manager of Cleveland and now is at San Francisco. And this last year he won most valuable manager. A lot of our boys really hit the top when they left here. That is what is fun—to watch these kids become major league players, it is really interesting to read the news about them and how well they do. This Jim Langeford went to the same high school as Frank Robinson and played on the same American Legion team in Oakland, California. They thought he was going to be better than Frank Robinson. When he hit the ball, it would go and he probably had the most powerful swing I ever saw. But, he struck out so many times trying to get that homerun that we used to call him Mr. Switch because he would strike out so much. Jimmy Valentine was a local boy. As you remember Doc, he was our quarterback at Weber College in football and he also had excellent baseball ability. Jim played right field a couple years for the Ogden Reds and was a really good hitter. He didn't go up, mostly because of his age I think. He was a little bit older. Bobby Gooth was a center fielder. He had a lot of speed and had a really good arm and was one of the better outfielders. Charlie Woolf came here. I think he played football at Michigan State University. He was a big, burly guy and because of his strength, he looked like he would be an outstanding ball player because he could hit the ball all the way. If I remember right, this next one, Johnny Moore, was one of the more publicized players at that time because they picked him to be outstanding player because they gave him a big bonus like they did with Ed Bailey. He got one of the bigger bonuses, but never did make it. But, I 22 remember when he came here he had all the publicity and those are the outfielders that I can remember. RS: Well, I have listed others here not designated by position. William McConnell, Al Ensley, Ward Trick, Myron Cassman, Marion Watson, Ed Twitchell, Ray Ostos, Ken Creaves, Larry Collins, Carl Pagan, and that was quite a few. The ones we remember were spectacular here and then went on to the majors and made terrific names for themselves. DW: I can remember one here, Doc, that we left out one of the infielders. His name was Chet Rokeland. He was the third baseman for one of the first teams that played over at Ready Kilowatt Park with Bill Heber as second baseman. This Lenny Lamont was probably the classiest first baseman I've ever seen. He was a left-hander but, gee, he could move around on that bag and he almost looked like a natural over there. He was a good fielder. Frank Santos was a second baseman. He was one of the good ball players, also of Ogden.