Oral History Program Carla Vogel Interviewed by Caroline Olmstead 1 October 2013 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Carla Vogel Interviewed by Caroline Olmstead 1 October 2013 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description Business at the Crossroads - Ogden City is a project to collect oral histories related to changes in the Ogden business district since World War II. From the 1870s to World War II, Ogden was a major railroad town, with nine rail systems. With both east-west and north-south rail lines, business and commercial houses flourished as Ogden became a shipping and commerce hub. After World War II, the railroad business declined. Some government agencies and businesses related to the defense industry continued to gravitate to Ogden after the war—including the Internal Revenue Regional Center, the Marquardt Corporation, Boeing Corporation, Volvo-White Truck Corporation, Morton-Thiokol, and several other smaller operations. However, the economy became more service oriented, with small businesses developing that appealed to changing demographics, including the growing Hispanic population. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Vogel, Carla, an oral history by Caroline Olmstead, 1 October 2013 , WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Carla Vogel October 1, 2013 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Carla Vogel. The interview was conducted on October 1, 2013, by Caroline Olmstead. Carla discusses her memories of Ogden and 25th Street. CO: Today is October 1, 2013 we are giving an interview to Carla Vogel pertaining to the Mount Ogden area. I’m the interviewer, Caroline Olmstead, and my assistant is Lorrie Rands. So, Carla first of all where and when were you born? CV: In Ogden Utah, 1932. CO: Where did you grow up? CV: In Ogden on Darling Street just below Harrison. Then we moved to 32nd and Iowa when I was about twelve, lived there until I got married in 1953. CO: How many people were in your family? CV: My parents and my brother and myself. CO: Your father, what was his occupation? CV: He was a dentist. CO: The Vogel’s Drive Inn in Ogden, he was the owner to that? CV: Yes we built that. CO: So how did, why was that started? What made your father want to own a drive inn if he was a dentist? CV: Oh he always was interested in everything. He had that little piece of land, it was a garden at that time with apple trees. He thought that would be nice to have a drive inn and four little apartments upstairs. We had car hops, that was my first job. 1 CO: So if your dad was a dentist who managed the drive inn? CV: My uncle Ken Burrows. CO: On the drive inn there’s a really big sign, how did you guys end up being able to get that… CV: Oh, because Tom Young the man that started Young Electric Sign Company that has done most of the signs in Las Vegas. He’s one of my dad’s very best friends so he said George I’m going to fix you a really nice big sign. That’s how we got that. CO: Where did you go to high school? CV: Ogden High School CO: And did you play any sports or anything? CV: Yes, yes I was involved in all the sports they offered. CO: Did you break any records? School records? CV: Oh well in junior high I did for the pole vault, the high jump, and the long jump. Unfortunately I didn’t keep the newspaper article. CO: Did you have any pets? CV: Always had a cat and a dog. One time we even had a little goat. CO: What about your horses? CV: Yes started out with a Shetland pony that had a colt. So I had two Shetland Ponies and from there all of the horses I got were because some of my dad’s patients couldn’t pay for their dental work. If they had a horse I would get another horse. CO: How many horses do you think you had throughout your childhood? 2 CV: Oh, well I worked up to about five. Pretty much all the time, I had two mares that would have a colt each year so the previous colts you know I’d train them and break them and sell them and then get new ones. So I usually had four or five horses all the time, but over the years the total I don’t know. I may have had twenty that might be. I did have a great grandson of Sea biscuit one time. The government sent a stallion out to Syracuse and I got a colt from him. So he’s a great grandson of Man of War and a grandson of Sea biscuit. CO: And you said that you broke the horses by yourself and you sold them? CV: Yes I’d train them then sell them. CO: Would you get to keep all the money even though your dad helped care for them. CV: Even though it wasn’t a lot. I don’t really remember if I kept the money or not. I know I sold that particular colt for two hundred dollars and I probably used it for school. CO: Did you have a favorite horse that was your horse that you wouldn’t sell? CV: Well pretty much Goldie. She was a thoroughbred race horse from Roosevelt and her father couldn’t pay for his false teeth so he gave us this horse and yeah. She was fast. CO: So she was a race horse, did you ever take her out, did you ever race her? CV: No there was really no place big enough for her to run full-out. I would race her with neighbor kids once in a while, but that was all. There were no race tracks around here. CO: Can you tell us about the time when you took her to Hill Field Road? 3 CV: Oh yes. I was probably in junior high last part of junior high and she never was able to run as far as she wanted. Once she started running she never wanted to stop and it was kind of a problem around here on 32nd street. So one day I just was a little bit cool so I didn’t put a saddle on and I just rode her out from 32nd out up the hill to the Hill Field Road. There used to be great big huge hayfield, just huge. So I let her just run as fast and as far as she wanted and by the time we got clear down to the end she was pretty much was satisfied. Then I rode on home and never told a soul. 40 years later I mentioned it to my mother when we were on that road and I told her and she just, she started shaking she says good grief I can’t believe you did that, but it was pretty fun. CO: Did you ever take Goldie on night rides? CV: Yes, sometimes. Not a lot, but two or three that I remember. If it was a full moon and clear, I had a friend out that lived by 37th and Harrison. Well, her house got torn down when they built the college. We would meet after my folks were asleep I would go out. We would meet and ride around in the hills. CO: So you never told your parents that you were going out? CV: No, no. CO: So right next to your house was the Mount Ogden Park? CV: Well this present house, yes. CO: Do you remember when Mount Ogden Park was built or has it been around forever? CV: No because I think it was built probably when we were away. We were away for 23 years, from 72 to 95. So it was built sometime in that period. 4 CO: Just a little bit farther down from the Ogden Park is Wagon Wheel Road. Did you ever hang out around there? CV: Oh yes, yeah one of my good friend Beverly lived on that road and I remember once in a while picking her up early in the morning and just putting her on the back of my horse. We’d just go riding around up in the hills. CO: You mentioned one day you found a distillery? CV: Yes it was all underground. I would say a couple hundred feet up from 32nd. We just kind of dug around a little bit and here was this great big underground room with all these old wood stoves and barrels and buckets and yeah even though we were young we knew what it was. CO: Did you guys ever try to light it up? CV: Oh no. We never told anybody about it either. If we had told some adults they probably would’ve come and caved it in. That was probably really dangerous to be under there. CO: Do, so you never told anybody. Do you think that there would be a chance it would still be there or probably not? CV: I think it is. I could show you where it was. I imagine you know there’s grass over it now. It’s part of the playing field of Mt. Ogden Junior High School. CO: So you wouldn’t know where it is unless you had seen it before? CV: Right, yeah. My friend Penelope Dovenspike lived right close to it too. So we went to Polk School together. CO: So skipping forward quite a few years, did you attend Weber College? CV: Yes 5 CO: What was your major? What were you studying? CV: Psychology and secretarial. CO: How would you get to school each morning? CV: Well I had access to a little old 1937 Ford Coup and that’s pretty much what I drove. By then a cousin was living with us her mother had died so she would go too. She took cosmetology so she only went for one year. CO: So you got to drive to school? Was that common for most students? CV: Actually I drove to Ogden High School in that little car because it was my brother’s and he was away on a mission. So I think I was practically the only student that drove a car to Ogden High School. I parked right in front of the south door on 29th street. CO: So after your college education you said you were trying to study being a secretary. Did you ever get a job with that? CV: Oh I got a very good job for Makesson Robins Drug Wholesale Company. CO: Where was that? CV: Down on 24th and Lincoln. It’s been torn down since, but it was national drug wholesale and I was the secretary to the manager, Mr. Tinney. CO: Do you know about what year that was that you were a secretary about what time? CV: 52 CO: Just out of curiosity do you know about how much you were making as a secretary for them? CV: Yeah I think I got about 65 dollars every other week. 6 CO: How many hours were you working? CV: Oh full CO: Full time? CV: Probably either 8-5 or 9-5. CO: So speaking of that part of Ogden, so you were a secretary on 24th street right next to that was 25th street. Did you ever spend a lot of time there? CV: Not in those days, it was very run down and there were so many men around that were drinking and sitting on the gutter. So we drove by, in fact my cousin more than once saw her father down there because he was an alcoholic. So she would say there’s Frank Taylor. My dad became her dad. CO: Are you familiar with electric alley? CV: Oh yes CO: Can you tell us a little bit about that? CV: Yes, it started on Wall just a little north of 25th street in the back of the buildings. There would be lights burning in some of the windows, upstairs windows. So one day I picked up my two friends and their mother came with us, she was very worried when I turned up electric alley because she said I don’t have my girdle on I shouldn’t be down here. She was a very proper lady, but we survived the little two or three block trip. We wouldn’t have ever thought of getting out of our car down on 25th street back in those days, no not at all. It was just bars and saloons and yeah. Later yes, when they had nice restaurants years later we would yes. CO: But not during that time? 7 CV: No. CO: I would like to know how you met your husband. What was the story with him? CV: Okay, well like I mentioned my brother who was three years older than me was up in Oregon serving a mission for the church. He left a book of Mormon next door to the boarding house where my husband was living, he was about 19 or 20. The lady didn’t want to keep the book so she asked bob if he would keep it for a week which he did. He’s always read everything he could ever get his hands on so he had it nearly half read when they came back a week later to pick it up. So they said, “Well did you read the book?” “Yeah I read some.” “Would you like to know more about it?” He says, “Yes I really would.” That’s where it started, they taught him all about the church and he joined the church and then not too long after that one of the missionaries was finished with his mission and came home to Salt Lake. My brother was still in Oregon, but this other got a job at Sear’s and also got a job for Bob. So Sear’s called Bob one day and said you’re to report to Sear’s store in Salt Lake on such and such a day. It was a surprise to him, but every time he applied for a job he applied for Bob too. He got a job, he packed his little suitcase and took the bus to Salt Lake and started working at Sear’s. I think it’s on about 7th and State or Main. Anyway once he was there, now he not only didn’t have a car he’d never driven a car. He was 19 or 20 and so I basically taught him how to drive. So Cliff brought him up to dinner and then you know I thought he was cute and Lola didn’t care for Cliff too much unfortunately because he really liked her. 8 Then they went home and I don’t know if we’d have ever seen him again except that mother and dad went to Salt Lake, seemed like it might have been a few months later to a missionary farewell and there was Bob. They said to him and Cliff well why don’t you come up next Sunday for dinner? So that’s really where it all started. CO: Then it’s interesting I noticed that your husband’s last name was Ellis. CV: Yes he was Bob Ellis. CO: So can you explain how Vogel became your married name as well? Can you explain the situation behind that? CV: Yes we did start going together, but then Uncle Sam called. He had to go in the army and he’s been blind in one eye from birth, but when they gave him the eye exam and I have to say that’s one of the only two times I’ve ever been mad at him. When he covered up the good eye he said he couldn’t see anything. They said well look harder, he says well I guess there’s an E up there. So they said okay you’re in the army. Oh when I heard about that I just about went through the ceiling. CO: Were you already married to him at this time? CV: Oh no, we had been going together but I didn’t know if he was the one or not. He went to Fort Lee Virginia for boot camp and while he was there my brother came home. He married his sweetheart that had waited for him, Gwen Fronk. She went to Weber too. So he wanted Bob to be his best man and he told mother that you know that there’s no one else I want to be my best man. Well he’s back in boot camp. Mother says I’ll see what I can do and she did, she was quite the lady. 9 She could pretty much do anything. The next thing Bob knew his orders were changed and he was to go to this private airport and was going to be picked up by a private plane and flown to Ogden the day before the wedding. So he was at the wedding. They were going to go to Sun Valley for their honeymoon. Anyway, the next morning Bob was at our home, that three level home over on 32nd, he was in the basement. He came up the next morning and here was the whole family there including the newlyweds and he wondered what was going on. Mother said, “Bob would you like a family?” He says, “I don’t know what you mean.” “Would you like us for your family?” He grew up in an orphanage and many foster homes. That was the only prayer he ever had was for a family. So he says, “Well usually you adopt little kids and raise them.” Mother said again, “We would like to adopt you.” So anyway, half an hour later we were down in the judge’s quarters and got him adopted. The next day he had to leave for Seattle to take the troop ship. Probably what saved his life is he could type. So he was over there typing throughout the Korean War and he would accompany the dead bodies to Japan where they could be shipped home, that was his job. So the fact that he could type probably saved his life because not many of them came back. So he came back April 15, 1953 and we were married May 15, 1953. CO: Didn’t waste any time then CV: So the second time I got mad at him I didn’t see where he needed to change his name because I kind of wanted to change my name when I got married. So he 10 was good to write nearly every week. Private Ellis was on the envelope and pretty soon it was Sergeant Ellis, but then the date came it said Sergeant Vogel. I just about went through the ceiling again. Years and years later I found the adoption papers where it said that he was required to change his name and I didn’t know that all those years ago. He did the right thing because Ellis to him meant all these broken marriages, all these drunken fathers, it was nothing good. My mother and dad was the first happy marriage he ever saw in his life, my mother and dad. He was very determined to be a good father, more so I think than most people. CO: After he got home and you guys got married. What did he do for a career? CV: Well something he was afraid to tell me that he didn’t have a high school diploma. He was afraid if he told me I would kick him to the side. Well I didn’t care, but he just took some odds and ends jobs. He worked for a T.V. repairman for a while. He took the GED test? He took that, he did so well he got a scholarship to the U, but we had just moved into little duplex in Ogden and we didn’t want to move down there. So he turned it down. He started at Weber and he went days, nights, and summers. Graduated fairly early and then he worked at Baker’s Shoes on Washington Boulevard and helped the folks with those four little apartments where Vogel’s Drive Inn was. Bob was their handyman and their painter. He became a good painter so he would clean and paint the apartments and work at the shoe store. Kind of barely got us through. CO: You also mentioned that later on he would go around and he would speak to people and tell his story. 11 CV: Yes he did get his master’s. He had to go up to Logan to get it in Elementary Education. So his first teaching job was at Polk School, that was in the early 60s. He taught some pretty famous people like Rocky Anderson, Doug Felt, the Frishneck, and a lot. He taught with Edna Hardy, she was quite a fixture at Polk school for many many years. I think she taught until she was about 72. Then he went on to, he became a principal down at Washington which has been torn down, but it was on Washington. His secretary Elaine Richins, I believe it was her, one day brought in an article about Charles Mansen. Bob said, “Well I know him quite well. He was in the next bed to mine in the orphanage.” She said, “Oh my gosh.” He had never told people much about it, but he told her a little. She said, “Oh would you come and speak in my ward?” So he did and every time he spoke a couple of people would come up after and ask him to speak in their ward. It just grew really big. He was pretty soon speaking every Sunday, well it lasted for years until eventually we decided that we would just ask them if it was out of town if they would come and get him and bring him back after. They were happy too, even somebody in Blanding they wanted him. So they came up and got him, took him to Blanding, got a place for him to stay and brought him home the next day. People would take him to Provo and bring him home. One time they flew us both down to California for him to speak to a big group in La Canyada California. People just kept telling him you need to write your story, you need to write a book. He started several times over the years to write his story and he just couldn’t seem too. So I don’t know if you want me to mention a little bit more about that or not. 12 CO: Yeah feel free CV: Well one of our friends when we lived in Price just before we moved back here. She was good on the computer and you know this was back in like1989, not many people were. She really wanted to write his story and so she would call him, get together with him, take notes, record his stories until she had, she actually wrote his story. She would call him, she moved to Texas we moved here. She would call him to get all the details so she finally did finish it. She mailed it to us and he set it aside, wouldn’t even look at it. I know why now because I found that manuscript last Friday. So it gives his story in his own words up until the day he was adopted in 1951—61 pages actually—telling about the vision of him, his sister, and his brother. The mother bathing them, putting clothes on and telling them this lady is going to take you for a ride in her car. These three little kids being taken to the orphanage it was a huge big building called The Widows and Orphans Asylum. That little detail I had never heard, I knew he went to the orphanage, but I didn’t realize it was like that. The mother never even said goodbye. She was very mentally ill so maybe you have to be happy she knew she couldn’t take care of them. Anyway this friend also made another manuscript, same story but changing all the names because they thought in case they made it into a novel they would call it a novel based on fact. Fiction based on fact and all the names were changed. So that was kind of what we thought, but she had a couple of different people read it and they both said this can’t be true. This can’t be true, all these coincidences. How he finally left the orphanage at 18 and went to Mesa, 13 how he got to Oregon when my brother was there. They just said all this can’t be true. She did submit a small version of it to the New Era Magazine, but the editor says, “I find it very fascinating, but I don’t know what to tell you. Maybe you need to find a professional writer.” Well I have a granddaughter just graduating from Weber College that has specialized in writing so I found this 63 pages Friday. Saturday I read it, it took two hours and I gave her a copy. She said she will write it and I think we’ll use the version with all the right names because everybody in it is dead except for me. So I guess I think that as a family we need to self-publish the book. Anyway guess I’ll be putting it together over the winter. LR: That’s quite a coincidence having a granddaughter that writes. CV: Yes and I didn’t know it. I was telling my one boy about it yesterday and he says well you know Amy graduated in writing. She was there last night, we had us a great big family night here at the park last night. I made root beer and they brought treats. So yeah Amy will help me do it and I have a friend that’s a printer, has his own printing company here in Ogden. You know what? It kind of had to happen after he died. He didn’t like dealing with it and you can just see why. How horrible, he says Charles Manson would cry himself to sleep every night. His mother was alive too. Anyway I think finally it’s going to be a book and I think everyone that knows him is going to want a copy. Won’t be a big book. LR: That’s great thank you for sharing that. I think it’s fantastic. His story will finally be not just something that’s told, but you can read about it. CV: It will be in print and I know it’s all true because over the years he’s told me all. See he wouldn’t tell me some of the little details that he did with his friend when 14 she would just have him talk. It’s not full of extra wordage at all, no. It’s pretty much fairly precise. It’s not overly wordy. I visualize it being in the neighborhood of maybe 85/90 pages, something like that. Some of the people that read the one manuscript where they changed the names wrote to Ann later said whatever happened to Bill and Connie? Did they get married? She made him Bill and me Connie. So I don’t know where it might lead, but I have friends that think it should be made into a movie. It would be one of the LDS movies I know because it’s a fabulous story, but it’s all true. One little thing I didn’t know at one point after he’d been in the orphanage for a couple of years they brought him home. He was so happy but guess why they brought him home? His mother remarried another man named Ellis and had a little child so they took Bob out of school—the orphanage—and brought him home to tend the little boy, his little half-brother. That was bitter sweet because he had grown to love him. He felt like he was the only person that loved him. He didn’t ever know his brother loved him so here was this little half-brother, but he really missed school. He did love school. So I don’t know long that lasted, maybe a year or two. That was what he never mentioned, but it was in the 61 pages. He ran away a couple of times, but he’d end up back in the orphanage so he was going on 18 before he actually got away. Anyway I guess the recording’s stopped. LR: No it’s still going. CO: There was only one other question that I was going to ask that I forgot about. You mentioned that you had a Korean brother. 15 CV: Korean? CO: Yes CV: Oh yes, Sun Chu. That’s his picture, he’s my age. CO: How did you become acquainted? How did he become part of your family? CV: Okay there were a bunch of young Koreans that wanted to learn English really bad and the young men really wanted to go to American universities so they got permission to teach them English. Bob a couple of other soldiers would teach them English. The only book they had was the Book of Mormon so some of these, I don’t remember how many. It seemed like five maybe five or six, I have the picture up there. See they all had to have their heavy coats on—it was winter. Some of these kids wanted to join the church and when Bob baptized Sun Chu in the China Sea, they kind of had to sweep away the ice. Bob and Sun Chu became very close, like brothers. They were refugees from Seoul, they had had to run and leave everything behind and there they were just living in Puson in very shabby conditions, but his family would have Bob over for rice and fish. So then later when three or four of these young men wanted to come to America so bad they each had to find a sponsor. Well of course my folks sponsored Sun Chu so by the time he came over Bob and I had been married three or four months so he lived here. Lola got married a month after us, but they had taken another girl in, Betty. She was still living with them so Sun Chu and Betty were there and he went to Weber for two years, then he went down to University of Utah. Got his engineering degree and when the Korean government knew that, the minute he got his degree they whisked him back. We didn’t get a 16 forwarding address or anything. It was just kind of so fast, didn’t get to say goodbye. He maybe didn’t even, well anyway he went but he was just here part of the family. I mean he would tend our first little baby and he was very close with my brother and their two little babies too. We trusted him completely to tend our little baby. So then all these years went by and in October of 2010 fortunately it was 2010 and not 2011. He came over to the U.S. and picked up his son in San Francisco, came from Seoul. His son Don who’s an architect in San Francisco. They drove up to Salt Lake for general conference and a little while after it ended the phone rang. It was our boy George that lives in my family home now. He says, “Sun Chu is here.” I just couldn’t believe it, he had to keep repeating it. He says, “He’s here at our house I’m going to bring him up.” So I started down the stairs and halfway down the stairs I just started to bawl. It was just so unreal, I mean happy. I just started to bawl so bad I couldn’t talk. Poor Bob he knew the phone had just rang he thought surely somebody had been killed. Finally I was able to get it out, “Sun Chu is here he’s coming to our house.” The whole evening was like a dream. I’d never had one like that. It just kept feeling like I’ll wake up in the morning and none of this happened. All of the grandkids that were available that could come came and they all sat in a big circle around on the floor here. Bob and Sun Chu sitting here reminiscing and talking. It was so special, so special. He wanted us to come to Seoul the next summer. I wish we had, but we had all these grandkids getting married that summer. We were kind of a little bit tied down. We’ve been in contact ever since 17 and it’s just been a wonderful friendship. He married Dr. Kim’s daughter, she was one of the other ones that was baptized. Beautiful woman, I have their colored family picture when they had their 50th wedding anniversary. They were all in their Korean clothes, it’s a beautiful family. So I e-mail him, I never hear from him unless I e-mail him first then he’ll message right back. He won’t ever take the first step, but very sweet lovely man. He was a handsome young man, now he’s just a sweet older man. LR: So you mentioned the name Lola. CV: Yes, my grandmother and her grandfather were brother and sister so we’re second cousins. When her father (well her mother died) had these two little girls her and her sister he just gave them away to a lady. I think her name was Mrs. Moon out in Roosevelt and they were just doing all the work for her. Herding the sheep and doing the gardening and all that. Lola was about 12, I was 12. The little sister was about 9. Well the dad needed false teeth, didn’t have any money so he said he had a thoroughbred race horse so we hooked up our trailer and went to Roosevelt. It was such a long ride in those days that we had to get a hotel. The next day we met Lola and Dorothy. Two little rag muffins you know. So what I really don’t remember now is how we went home and mother said I can’t leave those girls there. She asked me if they could bring Lola home I said, “Yes,” so we went back out. I’ll have to ask Lola how long it was, I just don’t remember that at all. She felt like she went from rags to riches. She had appreciated that so much and she’s had a wonderful life. Her sister went back to New York to live with the older 18 sister that was married and my mother regretted that the rest of her life because she led a pretty bad life. They weren’t religious at all and just very sad. They’re both still alive too, but one’s paralyzed in a wheelchair for many years and the younger one is divorced and poor, very sad. Lola has had a very good life in California. LR: The last time we were here you talked about over where Mount Ogden Park is now. The little shack that had that little family in it. CV: Oh the stone house? LR: Yes CV: The rock house, yeah. It’s where the club house is. It’s just barely a stone’s throw east from that. It was just square inside, probably about the size of half of this room and they had either three or four children. The Crosley’s, the Crosley family and they were feeble minded. So the state automatically sterilized their children even though I have a friend that went to school with a couple of them at Polk School and she said they were totally normal. Kind of sad so yeah they were just so poor. I guess most poor people I ever knew. LR: Oh the house that is down on 32nd. Now didn’t your father build that? CV: Yes, but Art Grix did the place LR: My question is, it’s kind of a new art deco home. Was that one of the first art deco homes in Ogden? CV: Yes I could show you about eight of them that Art Grix did. There’s another architect that did a couple, but Art Grix mainly did most of the art deco in Ogden. LR: He’s the one that designed that home? 19 CV: Yeah and all of them are white except for ours. Mother said no I have to have yellow brick. So it was yellow brick and the upper part was yellow stucco. Self-cleaning stucco and to this day it’s beautiful stucco. The people we sold it to in the 70s while we were in Louisiana put a pitched roof on it, kind of ruined the look oh dear, so sad. They didn’t need to make it quite such pitched because they had to cut into the windows and make the windows little, it’s very sad. The only improvement inside they did was in the kitchen and they made it so you couldn’t have a kitchen table and chairs in the kitchen anymore. So the one improvement they made was not very much of an improvement. So they had to eat in the dining room for all their meals. We ate in the kitchen when Bob and I lived there. We had five boys, we had room. Then Sundays we ate in the dining room. They have to eat there every day so kind of sad, but it’s still a lovely home. LR: So you mentioned that in 72 you moved to Louisiana. When you came back how had things changed? CV: Well we came back every summer so it wasn’t like a big change. LR: Wasn’t a big CV: Every single summer we came to Ogden because in Louisiana it was so miserable in the summer. The humidity just killed you so the minute school was out and if Bob wasn’t through university we came and he would fly home. So we would spend the full summer here and in the basement of the home because it had its own kitchen and bath and living room and all that. It was kind of run down, you know renters they wouldn’t mow the lawn. So it was kind of sad so that’s why in a few summers I put it up for sale. Bob wasn’t real thrilled with the idea, but he 20 knew we had too. An older couple bought it. When they died, this was about in 1999, I think, 2000, right around there. We went by one day and there was a for sale sign out in the yard so man we stopped. The realtor was inside so we didn’t tell him it had been our home and we knew every nook and cranny we just let him show us around. Anyway we told mother about it and she helped George get a down payment to get it as he needed a bigger house. She was thrilled to have it back in the family. LR: I just kind of have one more question. Having been up here the majority of your life, up here meaning in the Mount Ogden area, all but those 20 years in Louisiana. Well you were in Price too right? I’m thinking of someone else. CV: 6 in Louisiana, 17 in Price LR: So you were in Price okay. CV: When we first got married we lived in Salt Lake for three or four years. LR: For the most part I mean the majority of your life has been spent up here in Mount Ogden. You’ve watched it go from a really rural area to more of an urban area. Has the change been something that you’ve liked or is it been more of a you wish it would go back to the old ways? CV: Oh dear. Well like I say, we were here every summer all those years. We noticed changes every year. Yes I remember like in Salt Lake we wouldn’t see much change, but up here we would see year to year quite a bit of change all around town. Of course like I told you I have a photograph taken from our house on 32nd to St. Benedict’s and Ogden High without one single house in between. I may have to get those printed, that was on slides. I was very happy that dad didn’t sell 21 any lots over there between Iowa and Tyler, between 32nd and 30th until after I was married. I had all my horses until I got married and sold them. I had to sell them, but people over the years were always begging for building lots. All those little houses on Harrison, 48 I watched all those 48 houses get built. They sold for like 6,000 dollars, cute little homes. Some of them have fixed them up nice and some of them have let them go. We were kind of sad when they built those because I was still at home, didn’t seem right to have all those houses so close together. Then finally dad relented and started selling a few lots and then a developer/builder George Stettler I believe his name was, Mr. Stettler. He pretty much bought all of them and built all those homes. Those are nicer homes, but the city has a master plan to take all those little houses on Harrison down and put up high density housing. I hope they don’t, those are cute little homes. That is in their master plan for someday. You can go anywhere like out in Clinton where one of our boys live. Every time I go out to visit there’s 50 more homes and over the winter there’s a 1,000 more homes. I mean it’s incredible, but once you get past Harrison Boulevard life just kind of slows down, traffic slows down. So I really appreciate living up here and especially having Mt. Ogden park there. There will never be homes right in front of me like most people have. So I’m very fortunate. Two of my boys live within walking distance and two are ten miles away and one is in Price. All the grandkids, everyone is in Utah. I don’t think I have a friend that doesn’t have kids all over the country. 22 LR: I lied, I have one more question. Where St. Benedict’s is now, last time we were here you mentioned that the LDS Church was thinking of putting their temple there? CV: Yes at one time. They debated whether to put it there or downtown. LR: Do you know why they chose not to put it up here? CV: No, but I heard that they thought it would kind of help the downtown area. LR: If they built it down there? CV: Yeah LR: I just think it’s interesting, it’s a perfect spot. St. Benedict’s is huge, you can see it CV: From all over, the freeway. It would’ve been nice for me, very nice for me. LR: That was it. CO: Thank you Carla for your interview LR: Unless you have anything else you’d like to add. Sorry I forgot to say that. CV: Oh, well other than you know the two years I had at Weber gave me wonderful jobs. A secretary job here because of the shorthand and typing that they don’t need that anymore, but it was wonderful back through those years. Then in Price I got a good job. In Louisiana, I got a good secretarial job. In Price I worked as a law secretary for a number of years. So you know the training I got at Weber look how valuable it turned out to be for me. Plus I took all the psychology classes I could get for two years and I couldn’t put a price tag on how valuable that has been, especially in raising five boys. Knowing how to interact with them that has positive outcomes, I mean you just can’t put a value on that. So I really am very grateful for Weber and especially Dr. Stratford, William Stratford. He lived up into 23 his 90s I believe. Yes Weber’s been a big part of our whole family and still is. I’ve got a lot more grandkids that will be going there. I have a 30 year old grandchild that just started there last year and he’s found out he’s so good in math that he just got a scholarship. So he may meet Mrs.Right there. LR: You never know. CO: Thank you Carla for your time CV: You’re welcome. 24