Oral History Program Wilford G. Frischknecht Harry Bonnell 18 May 1971 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Wilford G. Frischknecht Interviewed by Harry Bonnell 18 May 1971 Copyright © 2012 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. 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It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Frischknecht, Wilford, an oral history by Harry Bonnell, 18 May 1971, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Wilford G. Frischknecht. The interview was conducted on May 18, 1971, by Harry Bonnell. Frischknecht discusses conditions during the Great Depression. HB: I have with me Wilford G. Frischknecht, who was mayor of Manti, Utah during the economic depression of the 1930's. He knows the conditions there and over the country during those years. Mr. Frischknecht, why is that period referred to as the "Great Depression?" WF: I would say, Harry, it was because of the extent of the suffering and the duration of the period that lasted more than ten years. HB: Well, when did it start, and what were the conditions that brought it about? WF: Following the First World War in which most countries were engaged, there was a period of political and economic adjustment. There was a short panic in 1921, a normal aftermath of the war. This was followed by a period of good times, accompanied by inflation. People became overconfident. Stocks on the market rose to unbelievable heights. Speculation was rife. In 1929 the bubble of the inflation burst. And that crash is mostly blamed for the country's slipping into a deep, disastrous depression. The whole country was affected. The Hoover administration tried vigorously to restore confidence in the minds of the people. But their slogans of "Prosperity is just around the corner", "There'll be two hens in every pot and two cars in every garage" had little effect. Getting around the corner was too far and took too long. The country sank into mental panic and despair. Businesses failed. Suicides of bankrupt business men were many. On 1 March 3, 1932, the day before President Franklin D. Roosevelt took office; more than 5,000 banks closed their doors. They were unable to stop the run of people demanding their savings and checking accounts. Industry stopped. Men lost their jobs. People wrote checks on their banks which would not be paid even though they had money in their checking account. It was estimated that more than 12,000,000 people were unemployed and without income. HB: Well, living in this age it is hard to realize but I can appreciate somewhat the deplorable conditions with a stagnant industry— people losing their jobs—and no money, from checking accounts and savings. What were the conditions in Manti? WF: Well, Manti is a farming community and some people had food for a few weeks. Many families however had food for no longer than a week, and no money with which to buy. People sought credit at the stores. Soon the merchants found they could not continue credit, and it was stopped. HB: Couldn't relatives, neighbors, aid friends help the needy? WF: In most cases relatives too were without sustenance and burdened beyond ability to help. People who were in debt with homes and farms mortgaged lost their holdings. I recall one man, considered well-to-do, an employer of several others, lost two good farms, two herds of sheep and his home. When the bank had refused him further operating money and announced they were foreclosing on him he drove his sheep to the bank on Main Street, told the banker "Your sheep are out on the street, you take care of them. I cannot pay the herders any longer" and he walked out. HB: Huh! Were there many cases like that of foreclosures on homes and land? 2 WF: Yes, many—especially with homes where young couples had gone to Salt Lake City, Ogden, or Provo, and found jobs and there bought homes. When the crash came they lost their jobs, they also lost their homes—no money to make monthly payments. Many young families moved back to the country to the homes of their parents' where rent was not demanded. There were homes that harbored from one to six additional families. I remember the story of one small farmer who said, "First John came home with his, then Annie came, and so on until all 6 families were back in the home of the parents. HB: How in the world did they care for them? WF: Well, I asked one gentleman how he got along. Then the big Danish- man said, "we put long planks on trussels for tables and that table vas set from 2 to 3 times every meal." He said further, "Boy I too wondered how we’d feed them all." But he walked to the window, looked out on 30 acres of good land and said, "The good Lord makes that land produce, wheat, potatoes, carrots and beans. God bless that land." HB: Huh! Didn't the Federal government come to their aid or how did they get food when they didn't have any land? WF: The government did help. Soup kitchens were set up where hungry people could get a bowl of soup and "black bread." Black bread was a substitute made of wheat flour mixed with flour made from potatoes, rye or rice. It was dark in color and dubbed "black bread." HB: I understand that you were teaching high school at the time. How did you fare with school, city responsibilities as mayor, and running your sheep ranch? 3 WF: Every day after school our home was deluged with people, old men, young men, women with babes in their arms begging for help, crying for food. It kept coming day and night. Having a farm, we kept about 500 pounds of flour on hand at all times. Mrs. Frischknecht couldn't stand the pleas and consequently dished out a few pounds of flour each until it was gone. After the first party got flour, then the callers rapidly increased. HB: Well, you must have been a busy man—with school, a sheep ranch and problems of the city. How did you do it all? WF: Well, I hired sheep herders and my uncle ran the farm. He often condemned me for not coming to the ranch at times when I said I'd be there. On one occasion when I'd promised to take him to see his daughter in a neighboring town 20 miles away, the callers at our home were so many I couldn't get away. So I sent the car to the ranch for him. When he saw the callers coming and going from 4 p.m. until after dark with no chance for me to get away, he said, "Get me back to the ranch. I'll never complain again when you don't come as you promise." HB: How did people employed by the city, county, and school district get along? WF: None of the public institutions received taxes as they usually had, in the amounts they used to get, although some people could pay. Every person employed by these units was paid salary with what was called tax "anticipation notes." If and when taxes were paid, we could get our notes cashed. Most of us could not wait-that long. A local grocery man would take our notes for food on a 40% discount. That is for a $100 note we could get $60 worth of groceries. The city paid me as mayor $20 a month. Sometimes 3 months would pass with no pay. 4 HB: How did people get clothes? WF: The government distributed clothing particularly work clothes through the Red Cross. Again the city fathers had to designate the receivers. I was in a food store one day when a man was pleading for credit in the amount of one can of coffee, two cans of milk, one pound of sugar, and a sack of germade cereal. His daughter was coming from California and he must have something in the house for them. "I don't know when I can pay you back" he said, "but I will pay you sometime." He got the groceries and did pay when he could. On another occasion, we had an honest man come to the City Council meeting, concerned because he could not pay his power and water bills. He proposed the city cut the water supply to his home. We told him not to cut the water for then he couldn't use the bathroom. His return was, "I can carry water from the neighbors, and others will think our line is frozen up. But if my lights are out they will know I'm financially destitute." Neither was shut off and in time his bill was paid. HB: How did they get things going again, getting jobs for people and money to buy with? WF: After three years of hardship, Franklin Delano Roosevelt took office as President, March the fourth, 1932, he immediately called a special session of Congress. Three days later, he declared a bank holiday. All banks not already closed were closed while their condition was investigated and determined. Those whose condition was OK were supplied with added money from the government and were allowed to open again. The government guaranteed payment on deposits up to $10,000. This gave depositors confidence. Many of the banks never opened again. Two banks in my county of Sanpete never reopened. A moratorium was declared on all debts to halt foreclosures and several laws were passed appropriating money to states and cities to get projects 5 going to give work. The government gave immediate authorization to spend $500,000,000 getting work started. The government would pay wages in the amount of $40 per work period and the city would have to furnish materials used for construction projects. HB: Did Manti have money to spend for materials or what did you do? WF: Manti was fortunate to own their light and power system and also their culinary water system. The telephone system also was locally owned. Some people could pay their bills for lights and water also their taxes, and thereby we had money for materials. HB: Could you just assign a job to be done and set people to work? WF: No, we had to submit proposals of projects to the state. Their engineers would study feasibility and need and also send engineers to get the project started, inspect the work as it progressed on projects that the state had approved. HB: With so many needing work how -would you determine who could go to work? WF: Well, the city council would meet every night to determine who could go to work the next day and those selected were notified that night to report the next morning. We knew the most urgent cases and they got first consideration. We moved from absolute necessity cases to those of lesser needs. The city offices were surrounded each night by men needing work. They pleaded, cursed, and threatened. I have often said since, "Every citizen should have the experience of being mayor through a depression." On some projects too, horse teams were needed. Because there wasn't enough feed to keep them in good working shape, they couldn't pull the plow and the scraper. They couldn't 6 even pull the wagon partially loaded with dirt on excavation work. They had to be sent home. HB: Mr. Frischknecht, did all cities provide project work for their needy people? WF: No, some had no money to purchase materials and therefor were disqualified. Men from those cities would work on county projects or come to Manti for their work assignments. HB: Were your projects of lasting value or were they of the leaf raking and window washing variety? WF: The city graded and graveled streets throughout the entire town and to some of the farming areas. We constructed a new elementary school building, a new power plant for additional power, a large concrete culinary water tank, to more than double the storage capacity for city use. A new pipe line was installed high in the mountains to gather several springs for increased supply. The water line went through the new hydraulic power plant and thence into the culinary water system. A 6 inch pipe was installed around the city with adequate laterals, and fire hydrants were installed every two blocks. Every home within the city could be reached by the fire hose. This not only gave fire protection but also brought a lower fire insurance rate. A new county court house was erected of beautiful iolite stone. A new white way was installed along Main Street with nice lights on every pole on either side of the road. And the north entrance to the city was beautified with lawns and shrubs. The creek aqueduct was extended through the upper part of the business district. Men working on this project wore gunny sacks on their feet and legs to protect them from the cold as they had no boots or rubbers. The work went on all through the next winter. The city hall was also renovated and remodeled. 7 HB: The construction projects must have given good training for carpentry, masonry, cement work, and so forth. Can you comment on that? WF: Your statement is true. I urged men who had no homes to cooperate together, to first get a basement home of their own where no rent would have to be paid. With the cooperation of the different skills, much could be accomplished. They could later build above ground as they were able. Only four out of nine men got homes completed above the ground. HB: Some people claim that during the depression there was a bad drought. Can you tell me something about that? WF: Well, in the summer of 1934 and the preceding winter there was very little snow in the mountains and no rain in the valleys. Very few farmers raised any food for animals. The grass and the weeds did not grow. Even the brush had little growth. In my case I did not cut a stem of alfalfa and no grain. The following winter-that of thirty-four and -five-was very severe with deep snow. There was no feed that could be grazed. Alfalfa in the area was selling from §60 to $80 per ton and very little to be had. The government shipped several car loads of corn, maize, and wheat to help relieve the situation. We cut and dragged cedar trees making trails by which sheep could get some brush for roughage. They also ate the cedars. Losses were heavy. I lost one half of my herd of sheep that winter. Livestock people and especially sheep men claimed the drought was worse than the depression. HB: It was a tough period for you and one that you will remember, I'm sure. 8 WF: I had to hire much of my own work done, and the setting up of projects to keep men at work was time consuming. Many times I could not get to my class in school as I had to work with engineers in project planning, getting them approved and started. Projects were continued throughout the 30’s and men generally had work. They could get food and medicine although things were not lush for them. When the 2nd World War started and Japan made their sneak attack on Pearl Harbor this country rose in dignity and in unison, determined to win the war. Defense industries were established all over the nation. Men and women were both needed in the war effort. The long depression was now over. We hope we never have another one of that magnitude. HB: This has been very interesting and informative. Thank you very much Mr. Frischknecht. 9 Comments I interviewed Wilford G. Frischknecht of Manti, Utah, concerning the Great Depression of the 1930's, during which time he was mayor of Manti. He is a very remarkable person with a great deal of knowledge. Mr. Frischknecht talked about many things, some of which are not included in this interview. He has lots of background and experience in various other areas also. Mr. Frischknecht was born October 30, 1893 in Manti, Utah. He graduated from the University of Utah. Since then he has been a sheep man for many years. One of his sons now has his farm and his sheep. Mr. Frischknecht was a school teacher during the depression. He has always been active in the Democratic Party, in Utah and nationally. He was mayor of Manti during the depression. He served as the National Youth Administrator over the seven western states, plus Alaska and Hawaii, under Franklin D. Roosevelt (starting in 1937). He also served as head of the Office Price Stabilization (OPS) in Utah during the second World .ar. Mr. Frischknecht has since worked for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce in Utah. Mr. Frischknecht is an important man and I suggest that he is a good person from which to gain more oral information. 10