Oral History Program Kenyatta Green Interviewed by Natalie Slater 5 April 2016 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Kenyatta Green Interviewed by Natalie Slater 5 April 2016 Copyright © 2023 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Weber State College/University Student Projects have been created by students working with several different professors on the Weber State campus. The topics are varied and based on the student's interest or task for a specific assignment. These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Green, Kenyatta, an oral history by Natalie Slater, 5 April 2016, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections and University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Kenyatta Green Circa 2019 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Kenyatta Green, conducted on April 5, 2016, by Natalie Slater. Kenyatta discusses his life and experiences as a minority leader in Northern Utah. KG: My name is Kenyatta Green and I live here in Northern Utah. I have a few different jobs. I work for the State of Utah as my primary career. I work for Juvenile Justice Services as an assistant program director. I oversee case managers and parole officers in Salt Lake County and in Utah County. I have been working for the state of Utah for 20 years now, and I am currently a student earning a PhD in diagnostic psychology. I have been in the state of Utah since 1994. NS: Okay, great. What about your education background? KG: I got a bachelor’s degree in sociology and political science. I earned my bachelor’s degree through Utah State University back in 1996. Then I started graduate school in psychology in 1996 at Utah State. I was going to be a graduate assistant coach. I did that for a year and didn’t really like it. When I stopped doing that, the funding went away for graduate school, so I started working for the State of Utah in Juvenile Justice Services. Then I went to graduate school at the University of Utah; I started in 1999 and graduated in 2001. I completed and got a licensure, and I have been on-andoff practicing mental health as a mental health therapist since 2001. I did it for a few years on my own. I didn’t really like it because I didn’t have a lot of experience to draw off of. I was single, not married, no kids, and so even though I thought I knew everything book-wise, I didn’t have a lot of experience to offer 1 anyone as far as skill building as a therapist or parenting—things like that. I just continued with program development of the state of Utah and worked in different aspects with the state like observation assessment, secure facilities, community placement programing, early intervention. I did that for a few years. Then I started doing mental health assessments again in 2011, privately, and I have been current with doing that ever since, just with a different personal company. That is with a personal business, then we have contracts with parole corrections—just doing some private things: dealing with family problems, developmental problems, you know, things like that. NS: Great! You left out the highlight that you were a superstar at Utah State. KG: Yeah, that was so long ago that I forgot! NS: Not that long ago! I was in college back then. KG: Yeah, so I did come to Utah on a football scholarship. I transferred from Ohio State University first. I played football there. I wasn’t playing as much as I liked. I went back to LA for a semester then I got a scholarship at Utah State and played football there—then I decided to stay in Utah. NS: Oh, okay, crazy transitions. KS: I had been away from urbanized areas. Well, Columbus, Ohio is pretty urbanized, but being away from home in itself is a huge adjustment, regardless of where you are at. It’s still not home. I had some experience from being away from home and getting over the homesickness and things like that. That was one thing that I saw a lot with people coming to Utah was when I was getting my bachelor’s degree, and even when I was getting my master’s—the adjustment of 2 living in Utah and people learning to live in Utah that had never lived anywhere else either—they just came from their home state, it was hard for them. For me, it was just another place to live. NS: So it wasn’t too much of a culture shock. KG: Yeah, for me, I came for a purpose, and I wasn’t going to let anything get in the way of progression. I just wasn’t going to worry about the different culture. NS: Okay great! Let’s start off by having you tell us about your background, your childhood, where you grew up. KG: Okay, my childhood, I grew up in Los Angeles, California. I grew up in Watts and in San Fernando Valley. I was adopted. Me and my brother—I have a brother that is 11 months older than me—we were adopted. My mother was 13 when she had my brother and 14 when she had me, so we were adopted into a great family. When I started school, I went to an alternative school, which would be like a charter school now. So when coming from an inner city, immediately I was going to a school with a diverse background. I went to school with Jewish kids, Asian kids, white kids, Mexican, Latino—I mean all different races—and that was instantly, so I went directly from playing on my street as a kid to going to this school that was so diverse, and it wasn’t until later in life that I had something different than a lot of my childhood friends in my neighborhood. The kids in my neighborhood—they had never really been exposed to that. I lived 30 minutes from the beach and I had friends in my neighborhood that had never even been to the beach before, because they just believed that Black kids weren’t supposed 3 to go to the beach. I had been to the beach, I had been camping, so my family had done a lot. NS: Now, how old were you when you had been adopted? KG: I was adopted at birth. My brother was 11 months old when he was adopted. My mom was from Great Falls, Montana, so I was adopted into a family that even though we lived in an inner city because of the segregation laws in L.A., we still went camping, we went to Yosemite. NS: So even though you lived in the inner city, socioeconomically, you were high up in culture. KG: Yeah, we grew up in a family where my mom was educated and my mom taught school and worked for the federal government, so even though we were in an inner-city neighborhood, I had exposure to a lot of other things that my friends didn’t have. So growing up in that type of school, I had a lot of blessings and was very fortunate to experience a lot of different things. Then my mom got remarried, and the person that she married—he was very much the type of an AfricanAmerican that was used to being segregated. He checked me out of that school because he felt like I didn’t know how to interact with “Black” kids, but I played with the Black kids every day in my neighborhood. NS: Yeah, you are aware of what color you are. KG: Exactly! You know! I did dress differently going to that school. I rode a BMX bike, I raced BMX bikes. A lot of my friends didn't do that, but a lot of my friends going to that school—I would do things like that with them on the weekends. My mom just had me in different things, like unconventional activities around that 4 neighborhood. I played baseball and football, but I also rode bikes and skateboards, which is odd for someone in the inner-city back then. So he checked me out of that school, and I ended up going to a school in my neighborhood. Now that was a culture shock for me because I had never been to school where students talk back to teachers; it was the first time I heard a student say, "The teacher doesn't like me 'cause I'm Black." It was a big shock to me. I just didn't know how to take it. NS: How old were you then? KG: I was in the fifth grade. Yeah, I was young, but I felt like I was old compared to others. NS: Maturity-wise, you were older. KG: Yeah, and going back into that environment, it was so weird to hear things like that. I remember having a conversation with my mom over and over and for two years; I tried getting back into that school and it was a fight with my parents—of me really wanting to go back. In the end, it was actually another blessing that I had, because I was able to learn some harsh realities of the world by going to this school. Like just the bullying, fighting; I was fighting every day—first day of school kind of fight. Things like that—you just learn to survive. It was the first time that my best friends at the time—the kids I grew up with in my neighborhood that live right next door, they were Mexican; there were 12 of them. Albert was my best friend that was Mexican, but you know, at school, Mexicans and Blacks can't really hang out, but he was my best friend. I remember getting into a fight with 5 these Black kids because these Mexicans were my friends. It was a learning experience. It’s funny, because as I got older, to the junior high and high school level, learning how to be with others, it really helped my personality and helped magnify my personal disposition and how I felt comfortable with myself. Even if I was being discriminated against, my mom always enforced that you never use that as an excuse. Like if you got to work twice as hard, you got to work twice as hard—that's just what it is. You just don't let anyone hold you back. So just learning to be around others, that helped me with sports. Being on a team helped me. You know, I had a couple of pretty rough years in junior high and high school. I lived in a pretty rough area, so, you know, sometimes you would just have to do things—you would have to fight your way out of situations. NS: Sure. It’s hard to just turn the other cheek and walk away from things. KG: Right. So it was tough for a few years. I had some good friends and I had some bad friends. I still had some basic friends that were good people and I have always interacted with them. I get to high school sports and I get on a team where you have people from everywhere—you have white kids. It's funny because at the high school where I went, all the white kids were LDS at this school. But you had Mexican kids, kids from everywhere, which meant gangs from everywhere. That was the tough part. On this football team, my high school coach told everyone, “You can't be on this football team and be a gang member at the same time, so you have to pick one or the other. You can't do both. If you want to play football, you have to 6 put all the other stuff to the side. So we had gang members from everywhere, but we were all on the same team. Everyone put their differences to the side and we were all playing on the same team. That is where I learned the leadership part at. I really learned a lot of great leadership from my high school coach. He was ornery from day one. You know, he was just— NS: So you didn’t talk back. KG: Oh yeah! You know back then everyone had pagers and that was the thing. But if you had a pager, you were considered a drug dealer, so you couldn't have one. I saw him throw pagers right down the toilet. He didn't play around. He had strict rules. When I started playing high school ball, I wasn't one of those kids that people thought I was going to go somewhere. That was like the farthest thing people saw. When I said I was going to play ball, even my sisters laughed at me. I played little league sports, but I was more into BMX riding, skateboarding, kick boxing. I was just more into that. I was built more like it, but I wanted to have fun. I wasn't really good at [football]. I was just there and I got my 10 plays and that's what it was. But my coach was really interested more in who I was, my disposition and how I interacted with others, and so playing high school ball, there are two things you have to do if you want to play. You have to be eligible. And after my sophomore year, now looking back at it, he was probably just saying it to keep me motivated in school, but he told me I could probably get a college scholarship. But looking back at how I was built and my size, I was thinking there was no way anyone was looking at me at that time, but he kind of 7 fed me that to keep me motivated. And so I got good grades, never missed a day of school—but you couldn't, ‘cause he would go nuts. I ended up earning a scholarship and that is when I left home. I was in LA when things were pretty rough. Rodney King got assaulted like two blocks from my house. That was my senior year of high school. I remember the night that it happened. Those same police had arrested my cousin that night for doing something stupid, but the reason that we got off was because a cheerleader at my high school was a lieutenant for the Foothill Police Department. So she came to the scene where my cousin was doing something stupid and told them her dad was the lieutenant and so they let us go—which was lucky. So that was kind of my childhood and I had a really a really good childhood. My mom was really supportive. She got divorced by the time I got to high school, so she was a single parent. My siblings were really supportive. Great siblings, great friends. NS: So how many siblings did you have? KG: There was me and my brother, and then I had two sisters and one brother that were older than me. They were my mom's before we were adopted. They were a lot older than me. My sisters graduated in 1978 -1979, and my brother graduated in 1973. I was born in 1972, so there was a significant difference in age. One of my sisters lived at home. She went to Cal State Northridge, so I was always pretty close to her. My close brother moved out, very early—he went back to my [biological] mom's family in Compton. They had made some promises to him. My mom's family, they were huge heroine dealers. They were very 8 "prominent" in that world, and so they can give a lot. My [adopted] mom is very structured and she didn't just give. If you got a $20 pair of shoes, that was a big deal. We had to work, we had to do a lot of other things. I did papers very early. She just established a work ethic in us. Every Christmas break and summer we would go to visit my natural parents' family and they would give us a lot. My brother really liked being given things without having to work for them. He got all the fancy shoes and everything, so he left eventually. He had made it miserable for my mom, so she let him go back to our natural family. So that's where he left at. NS: When did you find out who your biological family was? KG: I knew early. NS: So even though it was an early adoption, it wasn’t kept at all? KS: I knew as early as I could remember. I knew who she was and she was just a kid—you know, looking back. NS: And look at the life you have had because of the adoption. KG: Yeah, and we talk now. She has a lot of regrets and I feel bad for her because she was a victim herself—my dad was significantly older than her, and she feels bad for a lot of things, but it was the best thing. I think she feels more badly about my brother and his situation now. It wasn't really her, it was her parents. They were very mean to her. Something happened in between with one of our visits when her dad was very mean to her, a lot of name calling, and that's when I decided I will never go back there again and I never have. I have visited a couple 9 of times, but I never forgave them for treating my mom so bad. But I still talk to her. NS: Would you say, then, that your football coach growing up was probably one of your strongest leaders? KG: Oh yeah, by far. Yeah, my football coach and my sister's husband. There was probably a couple of other men in my community that were real good—my kickboxing instructor, and my friend's dad was also a great man that taught me a lot. NS: This is a two-part question. What are your core values, and how have your values influenced your leadership experiences? KG: You know, that's a funny question. As I run and work out, you know, your core values never really change, but maybe some of your qualities do. I think as you grow as a person… I've learned that as I stay very concrete with certain things, then I don't grow. It's been hard to be open-minded about some things, but you have to learn that you have to let some people just live their lives, and I can only be concerned about—not that I can't be concerned about them, but I can only control my life. I can only choose to be offended if I let them offend me. After I started having kids, it changed a lot. Not only do I have to nurture myself, I have to be this role model and example for my kids. I have to pay attention to who I talk to on the phone with, the type of music that I listen to, just everything. My interactions with them—when things are good, how I respond. I have even had experiences lately where I have had to retract and say, “Hey, maybe this was a bad idea. Kenyatta, you should have done it that way." But 10 having a partner that you can talk about that is always helpful. Me and my wife have been learning continuously how to get better at that. We have been together for… I can't even tell you how many years it has been, but you just continue to learn and to grow. But as far as my core values, one thing that I was always taught was, “It's not what I do when people are watching, it's what I do when people aren't watching,” and that kind of just speaks for itself. If I can look at myself in the mirror, if I can do the right things, even if I am not being watched or monitored or caught—and always having that approach has kept me from doing things when I was younger that I probably wouldn't have done if that hadn't been instilled in me early. You talk about principles and things like that—I just did this race and we had a guy on our team, 70 years old, and I was in awe of this guy. He had done lronman, was 70 years old and had done all these things, and at first I thought, "Man this is a great guy!" and after you have been with this guy for two days and all you hear is "Me, me, me, I, I, I," you're like…? NS: "Maybe you aren't as cool as I thought?" KG: Yeah, I was just really surprised! I was like, "What about your wife or your grandkids?" He didn't ask anyone else about what they had done, and I was thinking, “I hope I never sound like that or do that,” where I am just talking about myself or not thinking about other people's interests or wanting to know about other people. So I think it is things like that that have helped me as I have become a leader. 11 I was real young when I become a supervisor/administrator for work. I had no kids, no family—I was only three years out of college. I had been the captain of the football team and stuff like that, but in football it's like, "No matter what, you do it." You sacrifice for the team, you don't miss. I kind of had that same mentality with work—you don't call in sick. I had never called in sick. I am trying to hold people to this standard, but I hadn't even taken into consideration things like, “Oh, this is a single parent," or, “This parent has five kids at home,” or, “This person wants to see their kid's school play.” I didn't think like that. I had this lady, Dianna Savage, that said to me, "You know, Kenyatta, not everyone is going to be like you. Other people have families, have things going on.” I am so glad that I was receptive to listening to her where I can take a step back and say “Oh, other people have lives.” It's helped me a lot. It's helped me mature as an administrator and a boss, and taking time to find out what your employees' interests are, or how their weekend was, or just the little things where you're not saying to get an answer. You know, one of my pet peeves is when people say, "Well, how are you doing?" but people say it when they really don't care how you are doing... NS: Yeah, then they walk away and don't really care what the answer is. KG: Yeah, being sincere. So if I don't ask a person that, I really don't want to know. You know what I mean? If I don't say anything to you, there is a reason why I am not saying anything to you. Being sincere like that has really helped me with my personal values. It's your investment in others. It's easy to invest in myself, but 12 it's about the investment in others' growth that has been very important to me, because it's not about just me at the end of the day. My biggest thing I am happy about is the people that I have worked with have gone on and done way bigger things, but you have tried to provide that platform for them to grow and move on and not keep them for yourself, like, "Oh no, you can't go work anywhere else. You need to stay here so you can make us look good." But rather helping them develop so they can move on. NS: Yes, and that's what makes such a good leader: someone that doesn't hold you back and likes to see the growth. KG: I have had bosses that have wanted to keep you to themselves, and you want to just go and break away and learn something new. I think wanting to learn new things has helped me to not just be comfortable. I have had a couple of positions where I could have done it for 30 years and been happy—even if it was no promotion at all, just done that, things would be easy, I would be fine. But it's like I wasn't growing as a person. So if it gets to a point where I start looking for if things are wrong, if that became a daily routine, then that's when it was time to move on and go find something new. NS: So what do you see as one of your biggest challenges of being a leader, specifically more in Northern Utah, and what have you done to try and overcome these challenges? It could be you or kids you have had to work with... KG: You know, that's a tough thing. This is going to sound very ignorant, but I feel bad for kids that grow up here and aren't exposed to anything. Now, anything meaning not exposed to anything outside their immediate area. When it comes to 13 that being a barrier, I'll be honest with you, from day one, with the way my mom has raised me—there's times when I have thought, “Is that what they are meaning?" NS: Like, “Do I really look different than everyone around me?" KG: Like, "Is that what that person meant when he said that? Is it because of my skin color?" I refuse to give someone that power over me, and so I have always ignored it, or just haven't let that become a barrier, even if it is right in front of me. I just feel like I can get through it. And honestly, if it's a place that has that belief, then why would I want to be a part of that? I can't force someone to change, the only thing I can do is to help someone think differently about us, and if I can be that representative for a group of people, fine. But sometimes I think that's unfair, because I tell people, "Just because I am a very nice guy and you can get along with me, don't think that everyone that looks like me is nice and you can get along with them because that's not true... And I am not always like this.” I try not to think about that and I've never let that be a barrier for me. I have just never let that deter me, and if I keep that in my mindset and if you feed the negative thoughts, you will never be able to get by it. After 20 years of experience at work, and I have actually had someone complain about something like [the color of my skin] and it was the biggest shock to me. I was like, "Wow!" NS: Someone you have worked with? KG: Yeah! And the most disheartening thing about it was I knew the truth. How sad it is of this person to think that when it wasn't even remotely close to the reason 14 that this person was in that situation. But when people refuse to accept responsibility for their actions... NS: It doesn't matter what they look like, it's just who they are. KG: Yeah, and it's tough because I will not sit here and say [discrimination] doesn't happen. Like for me, myself, I run around my neighborhood in Farr West, and sometimes if there is a new sheriff in Farr West, guess who gets pulled over? I get stopped while running, and I get asked what I am doing running in the neighborhood. One day, I was finishing a run, and I am running down the street, and the sheriff—the funniest thing was she had passed me like three times, and I just thought “At what point is she going to stop me?” ‘cause I was in the different subdivisions and the business park... NS: And you have your big dog with you? KG: Actually, that day I didn't! I was over here by the farms, and I was thinking, “Okay…” I have been running, and remember when there had been house robberies? I was thinking that something was going on in the neighborhood, someone is doing something. Then I started thinking, “Man!” NS: She's checking you out! KG: Yeah! So I start going down my street, and she's going down, and she's coming back and it was probably right in front of your house—but my kids come outside, and she stopped me. She threw her lights on, and I said, "Okay, you are stopping me, you have your lights on, but I need you to be very mindful because my kids are approaching, and what you do is going to affect their opinion of people in your position forever.” 15 She says, "You live right there?" I said, "Yeah, I live right there on the corner.” She turned her lights off and said she was sorry and just left. But if I would have responded aggressively, it would have been totally different. NS: An altercation like you hear all over the news. KG: Yeah, it's funny because my wife always says, "How come you always get out of tickets?” I says, "I don't always get out of tickets. I have never gotten a ticket until I came to Utah.” She said, "But you clearly have been speeding, no registration with your tags on the car, and you get away with it.” I says, "Because when I get pulled over, I don't act the fool when they come to the car.” Also, especially if my kids are with me, I don't want them to learn to act like a fool or say something disrespectful or 'smart' or something like that. They could be pulling me over for all the wrong reasons, but I don't want to show them that that's how they respond, because I have seen it. I grew up seeing it, I grew up in an area that police didn't come into our area unless there was a problem, and when they came in, they didn't come in to say, "Hi, how are you doing?" They came in for business. So I have always learned to be cautious, and if something happens—and I am not saying if I am nice it's not going to happen to me—but if something happens, I don't want to be the reason to have something happen. 16 With work and with clients, I work with a lot of prison gangs, and a lot of prison gangs that I am with, I get a lot of white supremacy. I do individual therapy with them, and I have never had a problem with them. I have a guy that found out where I lived; he drops off food to my house, like potatoes, butter. He's been reformed. He's a very nice guy. He's working, he's really well, and he told me that when you're in prison, it's a survival thing, you have to do this. “Though I have all these tattoos,” you know, “when you spend 40 years in prison, this is what happens to you.” He said, "But you treated me like you didn't see all these tattoos all over my face or on my arms." I told him I wasn't here for that. I told him, "What you do behind that wall, that's all you, but when you come into my office, we are all about business, and our goal is to get you the right skills to have a productive life.” So that's where I am at; I can't focus on that other stuff. I have never had a problem with all the differences regardless of what race with any of my clients. I have had Black adults, like this Black adult called me a sellout. I said, "Why am I a sellout?" He said, "Because you do this for a living—you get paid to do this so you really don't care.” I says, "Well, I hope I get paid to do this. Would you do something for free? Wouldn't you have to be compensated? Would you really sit here for free when I have four kids at home that I should be taking care of? I have to be compensated for something, but my intentions are to help you. I can't just sit here and get paid and not do anything, so let's be productive." 17 He ended up being fine, but you know, when you get a lot of people that don't accept responsibility, they project a lot of things and it ends up being why you are there. It happens not only with criminals, but it happens with others, if it is discrimination or anything. There are times when you can be discriminated against, but at some point, you have to move by that, or you just live in it and it becomes your life. Like no matter what interaction you have with someone, you are going to take it as something negative. If a white person doesn't say hi to you, it could be racist, or you could go by it without even making eye contact. Maybe I am living in some kind of fantasy land, I don't know. NS: No, that's what makes you a strong leader, it's what adds a different perspective. KG: I am not going to say that those things don't ever exist, but if you harbor that hatred and continue to feed into it, that's all you'll find yourself around. You'll almost look for it. You'll gravitate towards it. It just happens, it becomes part of that. It's weird because one of the funniest things was when I was in grad school, because the most hated person in graduate school was the ‘white Mormon male’. It was this guy, Evan, the nicest dude! He would not harm or say anything bad about anyone, and the things that were said about him, I would come to his defense. NS: People couldn’t stand him? KG: I just couldn't believe it. I couldn't even come up with the words at how disappointed I was in everyone else. What has happened in your life to make that person feel that insignificant, when he has done nothing to you? You are only judging him based on his background, without basing him as an individual. 18 Everyone is an individual first, regardless of what race, color, or whatever. I mean, I have anxiety where I am walking down the street and I see five Black dudes dressed in khakis and red Chuck Taylors and red hats; I'm going to be worried because I have always had negative experiences with that crowd. It can be something as simple as a color that they wear that triggers, "Boom!" I have more anxiety over that than going into a board room full of white people. It just happens. NS: Well, like you said, it's what you grew up with. KG: It made me feel bad that they felt that way about [Evan]. So how do I deal with it? I don't. I just do me and I can't worry about others, because if you do, then that's all you will be consumed in. My high school coach always told me that I had to sell myself. You don't walk into a college weight room with recruiters wearing a knee brace. You know what I mean. You sell yourself. Do 500 push-ups before you walk in there. If you are so caught up in these other things, it defeats the purpose of why you are there. NS: That's true. Well, what kind of advice to do think you could give to emerging young minority leaders to be successful, then. What do you think with the group that you've worked with or even that are in that minority class to become a leader? KG: You have to work hard. Success doesn't come overnight. You're not going to get the keys to the dealership on your first day of work. You're not going to be the manager day five. Your friend that helps you get the job, you're not going to get his job instantly. Making someone else seem like they aren't doing their job or 19 may not seem as significant is not going to place more value on you. Your work ethic and what you do and what you contribute to that company or to that business will speak for itself. I graduated from college and I made $7 an hour as a college graduate, but I couldn't let that stop me. I had to work. I had to learn. I felt like the more I learned, the more options I had to offer. You always have to have something to offer—a skill set, something that's not just going to make you better, but something that's going to make everyone else around you better. How does your performance increase others’ performance? It's like that Michael Jordan scenario. Michael Jordan made Steve Kerr an all-star, because he made everyone around him shine. Larry Bird made everyone else better. It was a team. You have to make everyone else better. You can't just be you. But if I am running a business and I am going to promote someone, for me and my position, if I am going to promote a businessman or an administrator, they have to know they aren't just representing themselves, they are representing me, they are representing the company, they are representing the state, representing families. It's not just about them, they are representing everyone. Their actions and their behaviors will always be a reflection on that, and that's just what it is. If you want to be successful, you have to work hard and you have to start from the bottom. It's just one of those things—you aren't just born with a silver spoon. NS: So even if you are a minority, you don't think, like, “Okay, let's give them the special scholarships?” 20 KG: Oh, there are no special scholarships, and it's funny because I hear people say that. I heard someone say, "You know, the African-Americans get all the scholarships at Utah State.” I say, "That's funny, because we're less than 3% of the total population of the entire school.” Those are the types of things that will generate that mentality. But then when you think, “What do I have to do? What do I have to give or contribute?” Regardless of what color or what race you are, even if you get a job for some affirmative action reason, you are going to have to perform. You don't perform, you're going to go, and if you are in the private industry, you're going to go. It's as simple as a barber. You go up to the ATC and you are going to be a barber, you aren't going to get business if you can't cut hair. So you learn to cut hair by building a skill, by listening to your instructor, by taking your course seriously, by showing up on time and learning all the things you need to learn to be a barber. Punctuality—you aren't going to have clients if you can't be on time to an appointment, you don't show up, or your business hours are bad. If you want to be a machinist, no one is going to waste money on these precious metals if you keep making mistakes. You aren't going to make those mistakes if you keep coming to class and paying attention. You are going to learn. NS: It's those simple skills that seem to be hard for some. KG: Yes. I think for me, that's my advice—not just young, but for anyone that wants to become something and that comes at a sacrifice. When all your friends are partying and having fun, if you aren't willing to put in the work… Everyone wants 21 to be the star on the team, but talent only takes you so far. You have to sacrifice and put the work in. Even with college football or professional football—those guys on TV make it look really easy, but they do it repetitively all the time. They put in the hours—all the hours for those two hours on Saturday, relentless hours training, off-season, winter, spring; you get three days off in the winter, three days off in the spring. That's it. You have to be willing to sacrifice that other part of life. You have a family—you have to sacrifice for your family. You can't walk around in $200 shoes if you don't have food to put on the table and clothes. If you can sacrifice those things, you will be able to sacrifice with business and learning. Continue your education. Not expecting the company to pay for it—you taking your money and investing it in yourself to get better in something. That's what school is all about. It's investing in yourself. It's what going on and getting a higher education is all about: investing in yourself. NS: So no regrets on the education thing? KG: No! The only regret that I have is that I didn’t put more effort into it when I was younger. That would be my only regret. I love what I do, what I learn in school. Sometimes I regret when I write that check for school, think to myself what I could do with that money, you know. I could be driving around in a $100,000 car right now. But it's all for a sacrifice, and I think if I do it now, when I am 55 or 60, I could be retired. I could enjoy in my kids' life, I could invest in my kids' futures. I can continue with that. That’s the whole purpose, is that you want the people that 22 come behind you [to have a better life]. And it's not just about having a better life, it's about having an opportunity for things and to be able to grow. When I was younger, I always thought, "Man, if I just get that right job I won't have to work hard." That was the biggest misconception I had about having a good job, or being successful. I thought, "Oh, I could be rich and don't have to work hard!" You always have to work hard, regardless of what you do. Businessmen who trade stock, they are up at 3 o'clock in the morning, they are putting in the hours. So, whatever it is you are going to do, it is going to take sacrifice. You have to be willing to get out and take that first step. Sometimes you don't know what's next, you just have to take that step. NS: I think what I take away from you is that the minority thing just isn't an issue, and your mom had just instilled that it wasn't going to stop you and your education. You look back at all the things, and you didn't let that handicap you to continue to succeed. KG: There are things that have happened, but it lessens the blow if that’s not your focus, so when it does happen you just take it and move on. NS: There are so many people that are just drawn to you. It's because of your true genuine care for people. KG: I try to care for people sometimes. NS: Thank you so much for helping me out today. Such great information. 23