Oral History Program Christian P. Hansen John Sillito 14 January 1978 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Christian P. Hansen John Sillito 14 January 1978 Copyright © 1978 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Weber State College Oral History Program was created in the early 1970s to “record and document, through personal reminiscences, the history, growth and development of Weber State College.” Through interviews with administrators, faculty and students, the program’s goal was to expand the documentary holdings on Weber State College and its predecessor entities. From 1970 to 1976, the program conducted some fifteen interviews, under the direction of, and generally conducted by Harold C. Bateman, an emeritus professor of history. In 1979, under the direction of archivist John Sillito, the program was reestablished and six interviews were conducted between 1979 and 1983. Additional interviews were conducted by members of the Weber State community. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Hansen, Christian P., an oral history by John Sillito, 14 January 1978, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Christian P. Hansen, conducted by John Sillito on January 14, 1978. In this interview, Hansen discusses his time as a Legislator in the Utah House, his experiences as a member of the Labor Movement in Salt Lake City, and coming to Utah from Denmark. A third, unidentified man is also present, his initials below are “UN.” JS: This is an oral interview with Christian P. Hansen in his home, 624 South 8th East Salt Lake City, Utah. It’s being conducted on the 14 of January 1978 and the interviewer is John Sillito. CH: Uh huh. I’ll try and do my best, if I can remember way back you know. JS: Okay, let’s talk a little about your involvement with the Labor Movement. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about how you got to be a barber here in Salt Lake City? CH: Well after I quit the brickyard I went to J.P. Cahoon, he was the President and I said, “Remember what I said to you when I asked you for a job?” And he said, “Yeah, you said you was gonna stick around.” I said, Yes, now I’ve stuck around for 10 years so I’m going to quit. I’ve got the highest pay I can get here so now I’m going to try something else.” So I quit out there and went to Barber College. Went to be a barber. JS: Was that here in Salt Lake City? CH: Yeah, right here in Salt Lake. The first job I got after I graduated was in the barbershop on Second South between Main and West Temple. They had a club 2 on West Temple and Second South in the Dooley Building were the old Post Office used to be. The Post Office was down stairs and the Alta Club was upstairs. JS: Now what year is this? This is 1908? CH: Yes, about 1908. And so I worked at a Barber Shop that had six barbers in the shop. And they had the bathrooms in the back where you could get bath for 25 cents and get a shave and a haircut for 35 cents. But what I was going to say, they we got a lot of trade from the Alta Club. And I made friends with a lot of them and so I quit. I built a house on Ninth East and between 27 and 33 South and I had a shop there and I ran that myself for a while. JS: Now, in those days that area, 9 East to 27 South, was really out in the country wasn't it? CH: Yes, it was way out there. JS: Did the trolley lines run all the way out as far as there? CH: Yeah we had two trolleys come through here when I started to have to ride the transits into Salt Lake and they combined, they merged, so they became on company. But where Nibley Park is now that used to belong to Collins and he made a park there, it became a resort like Lagoon and we had a dance hall in there and they called it College Park. And they had a big dance hall there. I became an assistant manager on that for a while and then finally became Londonier Park and then Nibley Park. But at that time they didn't have no street cars on 7 East at all. They went South on 90 East to a street that went down past 3 Forest Dale Meeting House there and then south on 7 East to past 27, Nibley Park and then it would stop there. The end of the line was College Park in them days. JS: So the end of the line was approximately 27 South? CH: Yeah, between 27 South and 33rd. That’s we got Applebee’s and all that. People on Sundays used to dress up and they'd either go to Lagoon or to Saltair or College Park. JS: Uh huh. You mentioned that you were in a barbershop by the Alta Club. Was that a shop that was frequented by prominent people of the city? CH: Yeah, all the members of the Alta Club patronized, shopped there. JS: Did you get to know some of those people? CH: Oh yes. JS: Are there any particularly that you remember as coming in quite frequently? CH: Well there’s… I can't quite recollect the names, I knew nearly all of them. There was one old backlick that came in there all the time. He had warts all over his head. I remember one time, I was giving him a shave and a haircut and he wanted his hair dyed. I got a little hair dye on his ear and I had one heck of a time getting that out. But I used to get a lot of tips from the Alta Club. We used to pat them with a towel and take care of them down at the barbershop and they liked that. JS: Were the barbershops unionized then? Do you remember the Barbers’ Union? 4 CH: Oh yes. JS: Who were some of the other leaders of the Barbers’ Union? Do you remember any of them? CH: Well, there was a Bailey. He became quite mixed up in politics here too. He was a barber. JS: You don't mean Bales? Marvin, Marvin P. Bailes CH: Oh yeah, Bailes. That’s right. JS: Did you know him pretty well? CH: Yeah, l I knew him well. He was a barber when I was in the Legislature and he worked there for labor stuff of that kind. JS: What sort of a person was Bailes? CH: Well he was a little radical on a lot of stuff. He was a pretty good guy though. JS: Was he pretty well respected? CH: Oh yes. JS: Now he was a communist? Member of the communist, party during the period you were in the Legislature? Did you have contact with him during then? CH: Well I know he used to come up to sometime in the Capital. Sat up there in the gallery when we was in session. JS: You don't remember him particularly trying to influence your vote on anything? 5 CH: No, but he was mixed up in politics. He was busy on Election Day and all. Like, I said before he was quite up and going in the Labor Movement. We had, if you remember, an occasion where two Italians debtors supported the honor case. JS: Sacco and Vanzetti? CH: Yes. You know, I was president of our Union at that time and we had a big rally. We believed they were innocent, you know. And we had all the police around there because we figured we'd have trouble and we had a big meeting there, a rally on the labor temple on 2 East. I was chairman of that committee. And now 50 years later it comes out that those guys were innocent after they'd been executed. JS: Yeah. But the Labor Movement here in Utah believed them then to be innocent? CH: Oh yeah. JS: And they were part of the protest movement against their execution? CH: That meeting was a protest against the execution of those two guys. JS: Do you remember any of the other speakers at that meeting? CH: Yes, there was Alfred Sorenson. He was a jeweler here in Salt Lake and he was quite a Socialist. And he was one of the main speakers there at that protest. JS: What sort of a man was Sorenson? CH: Oh, he was a good guy. Good humor. He was for the underdog, he was always working for the little fella you know. He made a big talk there and it was Thompson from the Telegraphic and the Tribune. 6 JS: Now that’s M.I. Thompson? CH: Yeah. He made a speech there too at that meeting. JS: Do you remember anybody else that was involved? Did you make a speech then? CH: Well, I was Chairman, I just kinda keep things going. I didn't make much of a speech JS: Another barber that was pretty prominent, I think, was a man named William N. Pigget, did you know him? CH: I knew all the labor leaders, but I can't quite recollect the name, but I knew all of them old timers. Yeah we had quiet a… JS: What about Charles L Speagle? Do you remember him at all? I believe he was a tailor. CH: Yeah, I remember when I was federation president I used to go around to different places that had trouble you know? And try to get things patched up and they used to tell me, “Oh, come here, the Union, they demand stuff and they we don't go for that.” Well I told them, I says, “I don't come here to demand anything because I know that’s not the right kind of procedure.” But they said, ”Well Hansen, you come on in here and we’ll talk business.” And I got cooperation from a lot of them. Often the picture moving operators and the transportation workers and a lot of them. One time, at that time, most of our merchants they closed their stores at 6:00 Saturdays. But, Sears Roebuck they kept open until 9:00. So I 7 tried to get Sears and Roebuck to quit at 6:00 like the rest of ‘em. I went to the management there, at the Sears and Roebuck, and they said, "We don't know what we can do about it because that's our policy all over the United States. We keep all our stores open until 9:00. Well I says, “I wish you'd cooperate with the ZCMI and Auerbach’s and Walker’s and all the rest of them that closed at 6:00pm. I think you oughta go along, do the same that they do here in Salt Lake.” But, anyway I sent a telegram to San Francisco to the coast, to their office and I didn't seem to get very much cooperation and they had made a rule that they kept open until 9:00 and that was it. JS: But did you finally get them to change? CH: No, they didn’t. I don't think they changed JS: Okay, let’s go back a little bit. You were a barber for about three years and then you went to work for the Utah Power and Traction Company driving a trolley car why don't you tell us a little bit about how that happened? CH; Well I thought I really got tired of standing over people with bad breath at a barber shop. So, I went over to a Mr. Hunt, he was the general manager of the street car company. I went to see Mr. Hunt and asked him for a job. He said, "Yes, come on. I’ll put you to work." So, I went to work as a conductor. JS: Now that was in 19 what? 10? CH: That was in 1907. And at that time we didn't have [recording device malfunctions] in the winter time when we had to, our clothes would stand straight up when we took them off because they were frozen. But we finally worked with a company, 8 the Union worked with the company and we got MS degree and got a glass put in front of us and we finally got air breaks. Oh gee, we thought we finally got something, when we got air brakes on there. We didn't have to stop the street cars with the hand break, you know? JS: You mentioned the Railway Union, tell us a little bit about that? Now I believe that was the Amalgamated Street and Electric Railway Union? CH: Yeah, today it is the Amalgamated Transit Union. I've been a dues paying member for over 70 years. I've been a union man for over seventy years. JS: Now, what was the labor situation at that time? Were all of the employees of the streetcar members of the Union? Or where some that were and some that weren't? CH: No, there were some that was and some that weren't. And then finally it got so that some of the nonunion members used to go to management and trying to get agreements you know. And management would say, “Well you better go and get on a Union. We only deal with one organization. And not the regular transit Union.” I said before when I first started there was two streetcar companies there. JS: Let’s see, the other was the Utah Power and Transit? CH: Yeah. JS: Was there tension among the men who were unionized and the men who were nonunion? 9 CH: Well there was a little friction there, but we overcame that though. JS: Were you an officer in the local there or? CH: Yeah, I was served on several of them. I was president in my local here for awhile in Salt Lake. JS: Of the transit local? Was it a pretty active Union here in Salt Lake? CH: Oh yes, yeah. We had a street commons band and on Labor Day we had a pretty big parade you know? JS: What about during that period, were there any streetcar men strikes? Did the streetcar men go on strike at all during that time? CH: Well, we had one strike and it didn't last long. JS: What year was that? Do you recall approximately? JS: About 1907? Do you recall what the issues were? Was it simply a wage issue or was it the conditions? CH: It was mostly a wage issue, a little extra, yeah. JS: You mentioned that there was some problems with working conditions and that took you a while but you finally got the windshield protection? CH: Car barns used to be where Freed’s Motor Company is now. JS: On 2nd East? CH: 2nd between the 4 South and South Temple, in the back there. And it didn't have too much place for the streetcars to be parked. Some of the streetcars were 10 parked on State Street between 1 South and South Temple. We used to go over there and get out grease cans in the morning and start out greasing them and getting them ready to go. JS: What time in the morning would you start? CH: Well, we started out about 5:00. JS: And a normal working day was 12, 14 hours? CH: 16 we worked on summers some days and then 14 hours were a short day and we finally got down to ten hours. And oh boy when we got down to eight hours we thought we had accomplished something. JS: Now was this primarily by the activity of the Union that this was accomplished? CH: Yeah, mostly. JS: What was the attitude of the management down there towards the Union? Were they pretty favorable? Or where they grudgingly favorable? Or what? CH: Yes. When I quit, I have been retired since ‘42. And like I said before I was captain of the safety team there. And won a big skull from the safety counsel and took it down to the mayor’s office and took our picture down there. E.A West was the manager. He finally quit here and became president of the Rio Grande Railway company. When he used to say, “Well, you guys is the salt of the earth.” And he says, “But, I can't do everything.” He was a good manager. JS: He was favorable to work with? CH: Yeah, he was a good friend of mine, I liked him. And he liked me too. 11 JS: One of the people that I’m interested in was a man named Parley P. Christiansen. This is a photograph of him. He was the legal counsel at one time for the streetcar men’s Union in about 1917-18. I was wondering if you knew him at all? He was an attorney here in Salt Lake and in 1920, he ran for president in a third party ticket. The farm and labor party ticket. Did you know him? CH: I must have done because I knew all those guys mixed up in all that. But I can't quite recall. JS: I know he used to live not too far from here. Another thing that’s interesting to me is the extent of radicalism and socialism in Utah and in the Labor Movement. Did you have any contact with these people during the time you were with the streetcar men’s Union? You’ve mentioned Alfred Sorenson for example, did you know any other of the leaders of the Socialist Party here in the state? CH: No, but of course in them day Eugene V. Debs, he run for president several times and there was of course William Jennings Bryan, I voted for him several times. JS: For Bryan? CH: I voted for him several times. JS: Did you vote for Debs too? CH: I only voted for him once. JS: He was quite a railroad man. 12 JS: Let me just run some names by you to see if you remember any of them. William M. Knerr? CH: Oh yeah. He was in the utilities commission in the Capital. Oh yeah I knew him well. JS: What sort of a gentleman was he? CH: He was a good guy. He was really he was well learnt too. He knew his business. JS: He'd been a Socialist at one time? CH: Yeah. He made a good commissioner JS: Did he? CH: Yeah. JS: Pretty favorable to the policies of labor? Did you have much contact with him in terms of his activities in the Union Movement prior to his becoming a commissioner? CH: Well, we had he came to our Unions once and a while and made a little talk and so on and so forth. And of course then under Governor Dern I worked with him as well. He was a good governor too. He finally became… Oh what was it? JS: Secretary of War. Within the streetcar Union, were there many radical Socialist type people in the Union? Did they try to influence the Union towards the party? I know for example the State Federation of Labor endorsed the party in 1910. 13 CH: Yeah, we had a guy whose name was Sullivan, he was great agitator for Socialism. JS: Do you remember his first name, Sullivan? CH: Sullivan… I used to have his name here on the roster. JS: Well it doesn't matter. He was an agitator for Socialism, huh? CH: Yeah, finally some body gave him a job down the coast. He went down there and quit us. He was a clever and a good leader as far as that goes. JS: So there was some Socialist influence in the Union but it wasn't predominant? CH: Oh yes. JS: What was the politics of most of the people in the Union in that period? I’m thinking 1907, ‘08, ‘09, ’10. Were they primarily Democrats? The working people? CH: No, they were all mixed. Some were Republicans. JS: There were a couple of attempts, one in 1906 and one in 1910, to form a labor party? Did you have any involvement in that? No, sympathy for that at all? CH: No, I was all in the main party, the Democratic Party. That has always been my baby. JS: Another thing that interests me is the labor press in the state. I'm thinking of papers, like the Intermountain Worker and papers like that. Did you know any of 14 the people involved with that? For example, the editor was Murray King, did you know him? CH: Well, I must have known him but I never had much connection there. JS: Let me run past a couple more names. Did you know either of the, there was a couple of Socialist clergymen in the state that were involved with labor. Bishop Franklin Spalding, who was an Episcopal bishop. A man named William Thrusten Brown, later a bishop named Paul Jones. Did you ever have any contact with any of those individuals? Is there anything else about that period of time that you'd like to say that I haven't asked yet about your activity in the streetcar men’s Union particularly? CH: I can't think of anything special. JS: Okay. Earlier when we were talking you mentioned that the labor Union had held a protest meeting in support of Sacco and Vanzetti. What about the Joe Hill case? Do you remember that? And do you remember any activity on behalf of the labor moment on behave of Joe Hill? CH: No I don't. But I remember one fella that served 20 years in our prison out here as an innocent man. He was accused of murdering someone out at Pelican Point, or something. Some fella by the name of Wright in Denver, before he died he owned up to it and says I’m the guy. The other guy was innocent and he had been in our penitentiary for 20 years, an innocent man. I remember that. 15 JS: You mentioned that you were a Democrat during this period of time. You were first elected Justice of the Peace, I believe, in 1905. Tell us a little bit about that story. How did that happen? CH: Oh, there used to be a little red school house that still stands on 33 South near the Granite School, opposite the Granite School. We used to have debates there. And old what’s his name… I used to debate him. He used to say, well you could learn two books if it comes, this that and the other. I took the other side and says, “The best way to learn something is by practicing.” I used to win some of the debates on that at the school house. In them days, I wasn’t mixed up in politics down in that neighborhood. But there wasn't much activity in them days on that. JS: After you were elected to Justice of the Peace did you ever run again for office before you ran for the State Legislature? CH: No. JS: You were never candidated again? CH: No, I didn't bother much with politics. JS: You weren't involved in the party too much between those years? CH: When I became a mixed up in my Union, of course, then I used to go to conventions and one thing or another and when I ran for the State Legislature, a lot of my friends said, “How do you dare to do that? You don't have no education.” So when someone said that, I said, “I’m not afraid. I try anything, but you can't lose, you might learn something.” And I sure did learned something. 16 JS: How did you make the decision to run for the house? Did labor ask you to run or was it your own decision to do it? CH: My own decision to do it. They even wanted to back me, but I said, “No, if I can't be elected on my own I don't want it. I don't want it. I don't want a dime of donation in my election.” I was elected on the majority over a lot of them. I had even support JS: Was this in the days were the Legislature was elected at large or were you elected from a district? CH: No, when I was elected, that was when, Franklin Delano Roosevelt was elected President. That was the year that I was elected. JS: Now you were elected in 1928 to the Legislature, to the house right? And you were reelected in 1930, two years later? Did you think of yourself as a representative of labor in the Legislature? CH: Oh yeah. I was for sure. That was my main object was do something for labor. JS: You were president of the Federation then too, weren’t you? CH: Yeah. JS: Were you ever charged by your fellow Legislatures or people at large as being simply the, you know, the rubber stamp of labor? Or were you a pretty independent legislator? CH: I was independent. 17 JS: Were there any issues you disagreed with labor on? That they criticized your vote on? CH: Well, I introduced a bill for the railroad people, a full crew bill and somehow or another, Mr. Stack, he was an attorney for the D and R.G. and, he came to the Capital with stacks of literature saying that they were able to take care of that mission themselves and all of that well. Anyway, I had introduced the bill in, but we didn't get no place with it. They kind of beat us to it. but I was always working for the guy. Anything pertaining to the betterment for the working class was what I was for. JS: What other specific pieces of legislation are you proud of introducing? CH: Well there was a minimum wage for women and as I said before there was no old age pension law. I was instrumental in helping getting that on the books, as I said before. I hollered in the Capital when we had that session. I said my colleague, I says, “Now is the time. Do you remember when Christ was on earth? He said whatever thou doest to the least of you, you do it unto me.” I told him, I says, “Now is the time for you guys to do something for the little fella. Let’s put this measure on the books.” And he put it on. And then there was a labor laws about, they wanted to get the inmates at the institution in Provo, they wanted to be able to use them guys for working and we was opposed to that, so I stopped a lot of that, of course. JS: How strong was the Labor Movement in the twenties in Utah? Very strong? CH: Yes, I think so. I think we progressed a lot. Tremendous. 18 JS: What about the attitude of the LDS Church towards Unions? CH: Well, I and representative Beck from the Bakers Brewery in Ogden, we introduced a bill. This was in prohibition days you know? And we introduced a bill to try to get the Hewlitt brothers and the people that put up fruit and stuff like that, get some alcohol to help them preserve their stuft and we got that. And my church they had a piece in the paper about me that I shouldn't vote for anything like that. But I didn't vote for anybody to drink it. I just voted for it so they could get it and push over food, you know, like the Hewlitt brothers. I didn't think there was anything wrong with that, but they kinda called me on that. JS: You were an active Mormon while you were an active Union man? CH: Oh yes. JS: Was that pretty rare? Weren’t most of the Union men not all that active? CH: Yeah. There was some of my brothers that I didn't like to sit along with in church. There was some of the officers in the manufacturers association that were strongly opposed to Unions and of course I didn't appreciate them being against me. I didn't have any bad feelings, only I just I didn't like that, of course. JS: Liked the policies? Were there ever attempts when you were president of the Union, that you can remember, were the church itself through some of its general authorities or anything like that, attempted to dissuade you as a Union man as a from doing certain things? To influence your vote in the State Legislature? 19 CH: No. I'll say this, they used to accuse our church for being one sided. I don't think our church never was one sided. They always gave you a free hand to vote for whatever you want to. So, of course, I appreciate that part of it. Oh JS: What about the nature of the Democratic Party in those days? I get the feeling that the party was pretty conservative. Sas there some tension in the party itself over the rights of labor or just how much influence labor should have? I'm thinking about people like Senator King who was very conservative. Perhaps W.W. Ray, who was party chairman, was very fairly conservative. Was there a split in the Democratic Party over labor? CH: No. No I don't think so. I don't remember any but I remember B.H. Roberts he was a good orator. He was sure good. JS: He was an active Democrat, wasn't he? CH: Yeah and there were Moyle. JS: James H. Moyle? CH: Yeah. I don't know if he was a Democrat or not, a Republican, but anyway. JS: Were you active as a Democrat in promoting the candidacies of other people for office during that period of time? You mentioned Governor Durn. CH: Yeah I worked for him. Of course I worked for all the Democrats in the House. JS: Now, you were elected again in 1930 and served two more years and then did you decide not to run for reelection in ’32? Or what was the situation after you had served the two terms? 20 CH: I don't remember just what made me quit, but something happened and I just didn’t get interested in it much more. JS: Let’s see. Now after you were elected president of the City Federation of Labor too. Was that before or after you were president of the State Federation? CH: Oh that was before I was in the State Federation. Yeah I was president of that sort for a number of years. Yup. JS: Was the City Federation pretty strong? CH: Yes. We had all kinds, all the labor Unions belonged to it, you know? We had some interesting conventions and meetings. All the Unions had conventions here and all over the state. JS: What was the relationship between the City Federation in labor and the State Federation? Was the City, the unionization in the city the strongest, the dominant element in the state? Were there other areas in the state were labor was strong? CH: Well the locals they had their own way of making agreements and who that works for them and all of this. Any time they came up when the State Federation stepped in inside of and try to level things up. You know? JS: So by and large, the locals were pretty autonomous? They were not too dictated by the State Federation. CH: No, they all they had bylaws they had to be approved of. We all had to work together of course 21 JS: What about your context with the National Federation of Labor in that period? Were they pretty interested with what was going on in Utah? CH: Oh, yes. JS: Did you attend any of the national conventions? CH: Nope, I never did. I remember Gomes, you know? He was our international for years and years. JS: What about black workers in the Union. Where there many blacks in the Union? CH: No, we didn't have very many blacks in Utah. JS: Is that simply because there was a very small population? CH: There was a few black boxcar drivers in the early days but not many. JS: Were they members in the Union? CH: Yes, I think they were members of the boxcar Union. If I remember right. Some of them not many, but there was a few of them. JS: Why don't we discuss a little bit your activity after you left the Legislature in the Union. How long did you remain as President of the State Federation? CH: Oh, I think Nick Thompson of the [inaudible] for a year and he took after I quit and then there was Scholar, another one. JS: Did you know a man Oscar W. Larsen, who was a labor man, who I think was deported, sent back to Sweden. During that time? 22 CH: I suppose that I did know most of those fellas but right as old as I am I can't quite recollect a lot of that stuff. I used to know most of everybody in the Labor Movement at that time. JS: One thing that's interested me is that you were a member of the Chamber of Commerce later as well active in the Union. What led you to associate with something that many people would think would hostile to the interest of labor? CH: Well I'll tell you. When I was a member of the Chamber of Commerce, we were building our post out here in Salt Lake and I was opposed to the activities. The Chamber of Commerce reported people coming from California. They hired a lot of people from California come in here and I was opposed to that. JS: This is during the Depression? CH: Yeah I says, “We got fellas here that can do that. We should hire our own.” I was opposed to it. I was strictly for hiring our own citizens, but that job was still importing people from the outside. But most of that work was done with California people. Of course, I was opposed to that. I was opposed to all such actions as that, you know? JS: How were you accepted within the Chamber of Commerce? Did they look at you kind of an enemy because you were such a staunch labor man or? CH: No, when I was elected to the Legislature, as I said before, my boss at the streetcar company, he says, “By golly that's good. We are going to give me a big party at big party at the Chamber of Commerce.” I would say they were good to me. They really thought I was a great guy. 23 JS: So, they let you off during the Legislature? They let you work? CH: Oh yes. JS: Did they pay you while you were in the Legislature? CH: Yeah I got my wages while I was… JS: During the time you served in the Legislature, Herbert Maw, I think, served in the Senate and later became Governor. He was a friend of labor wasn't he? CH: Oh, Maw he helped me with over the… I mentioned his name in my book there. He helped me with the Workers Compensation Law in the state of Utah. He finally became Governor. I remember when we had our committee meeting, he was running for the House and I was running on for the Senate. We changed. I told him he'd better go for the Senate and me for the House. JS: So he was one of the people in that Legislature that labor could count on for support? CH: Yeah, he supported labor. JS: Were there several people like that in the legislature? CH: Well we had half of them that were Democrats and half of them were Republicans, you know? Of course when issues came up that way, sometimes the Democrats would support some of the measures for the Republicans had and the Republicans vice versa would vote for some of ours bills. JS: Was Reva Beck Bosone in the Legislature then or was that later? 24 CH: No, that was way later. But, she made a good judge. I remember her I voted for her several times. She was a good judge. JS: What were your contacts with the Democratic Party after that period of time? You retired in 1941. Through the 30s were you at all active in the party or in the Labor Movement itself or had you figured you had already done your bit by then? CH: Well I figured I had done my share, so I kind of retired. I didn't get mixed up much. But, I thought that they had almost forgotten me until they had a big convention here in Salt Lake so they honored me by inviting me as a guest as you read there in that piece. Oh yeah I got a kick out of that. That made me feel good that they invited me. Told me I was the oldest Union man between Kansas City and San Francisco. JS: Well, that’s a pretty good honor. You've lived 100 years, you've just had your hundred birthday last year in December. As you look back on over your life, what is the most significant change that you've seen between the time you were younger and the time now? CH: Well I look back and I don't think I could change. I really enjoyed every minute of living, as far as that goes, I would do it right now. As old as I am I enjoy every minute of life. I enjoy siting here taking to you two and I am glad to be alive for one thing. UN: That's why he won't get on the air planes. JS: Not taking any chances, huh? [Laughter] If you could come back 100 years from now. We assume that you won't live another 100, but you might. But if you don't 25 and you could come back in another 100 years from now what would you like to see? What would you like to see the world change from the way it is now? CH: I'll tell you, if I had the power as to do what I want to do, I would fix it so that in the United States you wouldn't be afraid of anybody. We wouldn't have no murders. We wouldn't have no hold ups. I would make the law so strict and make an example of a few of them and I would free the United States from murder and robbers and all violence, I would. I make the law so strong that they wouldn't dare. I sure would. I believe in that right today and if I had the power I would do that. JS: Carrying that idea a little farther, if someone 100 years from now says, “Who was Chris P. Hansen? And what did he do? What did he accomplish?” What would you say? What is the thing that you are most proud of in terms of your life? Your accomplishments for labor or what? CH: Well, I don't know that I could pinpoint any one thing, except that we are doing things today that we shouldn't do. We are committing, nationally committing suicide. We are poisoning the water we drink. We are putting chemicals in the food we eat. We are poisoning the air we breathe. And why? Why don't we get back to the old days when you could go out in your garden and pull out a carrot and eat it and not be afraid there was chemicals and poison on it? And eat nicer foods. You can't even get a good piece of hickory smoked ham anymore. They shove the meat full of poison that you eat. Our sugar is refined so it's… Why I could go on and on, so what's the use. 26 JS: I think I can conclude from what we've discussed that at your age of 100, in your one hundred and first year, you’ve had a keen interest of what’s going on around you? CH: I sure do, yup. JS: Well we appreciate talking to you about these things about your experiences with Labor Movement in Utah. It’s an interesting story. CH: I could tell you about earthquakes. I have seen floods come down the Sevier River. I've seen the canals flood and fish laying in the fields. Clogs almost the size of pigs. You could almost go out and ride them. I have experienced that JS: I guess the years you spent down in Sanpete County in that area they were pretty tough, physically hard years weren't they? CH: In Ephraim, when I first worked down there for room and board when I was a young fella, they didn't have water in the houses. Every house in Ephraim had a ditch, each lot had a little stream of water running past the houses, and they had a hole in front and you'd go out and put a bucket in there. Used to carry the water in there for a bath and everything. JS: You lived in Ephraim most of the time down there? CH: I lived in Ephraim, Moroni, Mount Pleasant, Gunnison, Redmond, Chesterfield. I worked and had shares in the Antelope Valley Canal Company that run from Sterling into Gunnison. I worked on that. 27 JS: I'm interested in a couple things about your early life. I'm interested on how you joined the church. And also, I’m interested in what it was that brought you to this country at the age of twelve. You obviously had some relatives here but just a handful? CH: No, I didn’t. I had a sister who got married and came here. But, my mother was the first one in the old country to join the church. And in them days we were persecuted. I myself, when I was old enough to be baptized, I was baptized in the North Sea on the fifth day of January. And we had to sneak out of town, the elders of the church and then my mother and one or two others, to get outside of town along the coast and be baptized in the ocean. JS: So there was real persecution against the Danish saints? CH: Oh yes. Whenever we would have meetings they'd throw rocks on the doors and they'd mob us, you know, if they found out what we were up to. JS: Were there many Mormons in Denmark during those days? CH: No, there wasn't very many, but what there was they really lived their religion. Believe me. JS: Were there many missionaries that came to Denmark? Do you remember the missionaries coming when you were a young man? CH: Yeah I remember a man by the name of Hissy. He came from Mayfield, Utah. And I must have been about ten years old. They used to come to our house and our mother used to cook dinner for them once and a while. And this fella he had 28 walked in there and he grabbed me and got over to his side and got a hold of me and he says, “Here’s a little boy that's going to live to be an old, old man.” And by god here I am over 100 years old. Yeah I never forget that. If he was alive I would call him now and tell him here I am. I'm still going. [Laughs] JS: Do you remember any of the other missionaries? CH: Yeah there was a friend of mine, his name was Geoff. He live in Draper and finally moved to Logan and died up there. But when I was over there on a mission, I had several pairs of shoes and he was up there in my room one time and saw the shoes I wore. He said, “Oh gee, I’d like a pair like that.” Well I took them off and gave it to him. They fitted him and he walked off with my shoes. Oh yeah and then I used to go on a mission to headquarters and we used to have some good parties. JS: In Denmark? CH: Yeah. JS: What were the circumstances like in terms of the church there? Did you have your own chapel where you met? Where would you hold your church services? CH: Yeah we had one where I lived. I remember when I was a young fella. As a matter of fact when I left the old country. We lived in the rear of a house and upstairs was had a big meeting hall. That was what the Mormons hired. The Mormons hired that. They were upstairs we lived in the back, so we used to know all the missionaries that came there. 29 JS: Now this was in Aarhus? CH: No, it was the second largest city in Denmark. Yeah, I remember that clearly. When I went back there in 1909. You know I want to tell you this story. My mother had a friend that was a Catholic. While they were good friends they had got in some arguments about the Bible. And my mother she knew her Bible. She says to this friend of hers, she says, “Well, this thing you are talking about is in your Bible and I can prove it to you.” So, the lady went back and bought a whole Bible back and my mother she took and opened up the Bible and showed her that right there in her own bible. So she says to my mother, she says, “Well that must be Mormon Bible. You can have that.” And the funny part of that was you know, in 1909 I was about thirty years old at that time when I went back there. I thought I’ll look to see if I could look up that old lady and I found her in the Catholic home for old people, a nice clean apartment and when she saw me she says, “Gee are you that little guy I used to carry around?” And she hugged me and we had a great reunion. That made me feel good you know JS: And she stayed a catholic though? CH: Oh yeah she was a staunch Catholic. And my mother was a staunch Mormon. JS: Were the other members of your family Mormon? You were the fifth child of your parents. How many was there in your family? CH: There were six. Yeah, there were six in our family, the three girls and the three boys. I and my sister are the only two left in the family now. JS: Oh you have a younger sister? How old is she? 30 CH: She's 91 or 92 now. JS: Oh she's just a kid then huh? CH: Yeah, she was the baby. JS: Does she live here in Salt Lake? CH: Yeah, she lives right close by. JS: What about your dad, was he a member of the church? CH: Yeah. But he… Poor fella he lost his life waiting on his job. JS: He was a merchant man wasn't he? Sailor? CH: Yeah. JS: What was it that brought you to the United States? You left in 1889 when you were just 12 years old. Why did you come here and leave your family? CH: Well, as I said before the Latter-Day Saints they really lived it and they all wanted to come to Zion. My mother was one of them. She wanted to come here where the main church is you know and so somehow or another she… in the old country they had lotteries, you know, somehow or another her and her other friend they took a chance and got a ticket here to come. They got a few dollars. So mama thought here’s a good chance for me to get my son or somebody to America. So I could go at half price. So that's why she figured she better let me come to America. And so that's how I started out. 31 JS: Now did all of your family finally come over to America? Your mother and your other brothers and sisters? CH: Yeah, I got that in that book too. All that. JS: Another thing that has interested me, the trip. You came from Denmark across the ocean and you landed in New York. And then you came all the way, and remembering you are 12 years old, all the way to Salt Lake City by yourself. That must have been a frightening experience for young boy? CH: It really was but I made it. UN: Could you speak English? CH: Couldn't speak a darn word. JS: Was it difficult to communicate and get around? CH: Well they sent me from Aarhus to Copenhagen. I got on a freighter there that took me over to England, to Liverpool, and was there overnight and then to Liverpool and then to New York. When I was out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, I was so darn homesick I wanted to come home. But I couldn't of course JS: How long did the trip over take from Denmark to the United States? Was it several days? CH: Oh yes, it took quite a while. Nine or ten days crossing the Atlantic Ocean in one of them steamers. Yeah, when they went to New York, they chucked us over to Ellis Island. That's quite an experience. JS: What was that like? 32 CH: That's where all the incoming immigrants from the old country they had to be examined. If they were sick or anything, they didn't want them in the United States, they sent them back. So I was among them, you know, and I remember that. JS: Were there a lot of Scandinavian immigrants? CH: Yeah, there was a lot of people there. They had a Russian one place and Polish and Scandinavian, all the different places, you know, and they examined all of ‘em. Quite an experience. JS: Did the people that examined you, could they talk to you in Scandinavian or did they would they only talk English? CH: No I don't remember that, but I know that I had a little cold sore hair in my lip. I remember that. They examined that pretty thoroughly. Yeah and so when I got on, when they approved me so I was okay I got on a train, they got me on a train and I'll never forget that. Out of the car windows all the way from New York to Salt Lake City. When we were out in the prairie, I’d see them little prairie dogs out of the holes you know. I used to think they are such cute little rascals sticking their heads out like that. But I came to Salt Lake. Where the Hotel Utah stands now they had an old tithing yard. Right on the corner was an old adobe house and Johnsons’ Studio was there. And so I stopped in in the tithing yard, they had hay and the saints used to bring the hay and meat, anything you know, that was a gathering place for Salt Lake City, for tithing. I had some money. There was a guy that had a little stand out there on the sidewalk, he was selling grapes and I 33 used to think that a dime was smaller than a nickel because it was little, you know. And if I give him a nickel he'd give me a few grapes. If I gave him a dime, he'd give me more. I thought that was funny. I got more with the little coin than I did for the big one. JS: You stayed around the tithing yard didn't you? For a few days. Did they have a hotel there or what was? CH: No, there wasn't, but there was a shoe stop around the corner, north of Main there was a shoe stop, a little printing shop there and they had some rock pillars with holes in them and they had chains through it ever so often along Main Street there at the time. JS: That would be about where the Hotel Utah is? CH: Right there were it is now. JS: Where did you sleep then? Did you just kind of find a place in the corner? CH: Well, I don't remember this but, I slept alright. Yeah and so somehow or another I got on the train again and when I got down to Spanish Fork the conductor said, “That's where you get off your ticket ran out” I didn't know nothing about that. I couldn't talk or anything, but they put me off the train there in Spanish Fork and at that time the rail station was off side, was west of the city. And there I was standing, a kid who couldn't talk, all by myself. So I thought about a name, bishop. So I started to walk and the first fella I come to I said, “Bishop. Bishop.” And somehow or another they knew Bishop Anderson from Spanish Fork, so they took me over there and when I got there in the kitchen, they were pulling 34 they had some girls that were pulling candy and had a party there and invited me in, of course. And so they found out I was an immigrant boy and I was stranded so they took me in. I stayed there for a few days and finally I made arrangements. By the way, before one of my sisters had married a fella and he had a cousin living in Mount Pleasant and this cousin of his wanted him to come over to run his farm on shares. And, so they came over. They had just come over before I did. And they lived in Mount Pleasant, that's where I wanted to go. So of course, I made arrangements with the bishop, I says, “Well if I can get down there with my sister, I'll get the money and sent it back to you.” Well made arrangements and put me on a train and instead of putting me on a Rio Grande that went up through Spanish Fork Canyon and the Sanpete Train that went straight to Mount Pleasant, they got me on the Union Pacific that went down to Nephi. And of course there in Nephi I had to change and go to Sharp Creek Canyon. So when I got to Nephi they put me off then. They says, “You have to get off here and get on a train to go up to Salt Creek Canyon.” Then I was stuck again by gosh, I didn’t know what to do. Anyways I got on that dinky little railroad that run, at that time it ran from Nephi to Manti, and of course when we got up there at Moroni, they knew I had to go to Mount Pleasant that's why I asked you to get off so. They put me off in Moroni, and there I was again. They couldn't talk so, I just put my thinking cap on and I thought, Oh heck, we knew some people that belonged to church all the time but they would Nissen to you and they migrated to Utah. JS: what was there name? 35 CH: Nissen. N-i-s-s-e-n. And I thought they might do Moroni. And I was thinking about that and so I walked up towards Moroni and I knocked on a door and I said, “Nissen. Do you know Nissen?” “Yeah he lives up on the hill some place.” They sent me up there and they greeted me with open arms too, you know. And that was great so. I stayed overnight and the next day I got a ride over to Mount Pleasant with a fella who was taking some wheat over to Mount Pleasant to have it made into flour. And when we got half way between Moroni and Mount Pleasant, the place they called Fiddlers Green, there was a sizing machine one one side of the road and the house on the other and some guy was driving across the road in front of us and I happened to see the guy. By golly, he was my brother in law. JS: What was his name? CH: His name was Peterson. JS: What was his first name? CH: Karl. Karl Peterson. And I says, “Stop here. This is where I get off.” And by golly if I hadn't seen him I would have gone to Mount Pleasant and would have been stuck again. JS: Because he wasn't there anymore? CH: No, no. So, I had one heck of a time but I finally landed there in Mount Pleasant. JS: This was in 1889? And you stayed in Sanpete County for the about the next ten years? 36 CH: Yeah. JS: What did you do there farm? Work odd jobs? CH: Well, as I said before, the first money I made was right there at that place where I got off. He had a 100 acres and they wanted to have somebody to clear a couple of acres he had that he wanted to clear off. So I took that job. As a kid with a grubbing hoe, cleared two acres of land. And, of course, from there I went to Ephraim and got a job with a fella by the name of Emerson Mastock. He lived there in Ephraim. His parents lived there and he had a home on 2 East there in Ephraim and I worked for him for my board and room. He was a freighter, he went around, gathered up cheese or potatoes and stuff and went over to Black Rock or mining camps, you know, and while he was doing that of course after I had a team of horses there, I took care of the place. Milked cows in the morning and night, do what chores that had to be done. And it finally got so I went out in the field plowed one thing or another I got used to farming, you know. I left after staying there for a while. UN: Tell this gentleman what you got for leaning those two acres off with a grubbing hoe. CH: This was Grover Cleveland's time and he said, “I’ll give you twelve and a half dollars and acre. And I said I'll take it.” I got a grubbing hoe and I got two acres. When I got in there they couldn't see me the brush was higher than I was. But I chopped away and finally cleared two acres and I can never forget this he gave 37 me $25 in gold. A $20 gold piece and a $5 gold piece. That was when gold was something you know, that was our real money. JS: The rest of that period of time you were in Sanpete County, did you do pretty well do the same things? Worked at odd jobs for different people? CH: Well then, I went down to Gunnison and I got a little older and I worked for Henry Kerns. He had a ranch down there, a cattle ranch, and that's really were I got started, I became a cowboy. I rode horses and took part in branding cattle, rounding them up. And cutting them off one thing or another. I really got busy there, that's where I really got woke up and in the summertime on that ranch we use to hay, we used to work all summer haying. When they got to one end of the field, they started another end. Well there was a guy down there they called him Julius Bear and he was a champion hay pitcher. So, during the hay time they would team me up with him. He was on one side of the wagon and I was on the other. They called me the cub because he was bear. We were the hay pitchers and had several others besides us. JS: Was his last name bear? Or was that just his nick name? CH: No, his name was Nielson. JS: Julius Nielson. CH: They called them Julius Bear because he had wrestled a bear and that's how he got his name. A lot of them days people had nicknames. But anyways. And then I got pretty handy with horses. So, one day we had some wild horses come in from Nevada and this particular day we threw one down and it looked like he was 38 going to be a good riding horse and put a saddle on him. And I got in the saddle before he got on his feet. And when he got up, there he started to buck. And I was just hanging on and the guys they had their hats up and they were going like this, you know. And he finally got out of the corral and he got running around the canal that had water in it, you know, with a little ice on either side of the canal, so I thought if that darn critter jumps, you know, they don't have bridles on wild horses, they just had a hack them all. So I thought here's where I get a bucking if I don't get off. So I was just in the act of trying to get off, I threw my leg over when he makes a plunge and throws me over the other side of the canal. I stuck my hand out like that, this hand here. These fingers hit here and my fingers went over here. Like that. Just bent it right back. So I got up and held my hand like this come carried it down to the ranch house and they saw what happened, they got me in a chair in the kitchen. I put a handkerchief in my mouth and some guy got ahold of my elbow and another guy got ahold of my fingers and they just pulled my hand straight down and put something on here and wrapped it up. And then I got on a horse and rode 15 miles to get some ointment oil to put on it. Now, what I was going to say is that in them days we didn't have doctors. We had to do it ourselves. I never spent a dime for a doctor for this hand. If it would had been here in Salt Lake it would have cost me a thousand bucks maybe. UN: He had a blacksmith pull your teeth. CH: Yeah it took me six months until I could finally use it, but I finally made it. I used to carry an old flat iron fetter under my arm and finally got it strong, so here it is. 39 JS: Another thing that interests me is that you live in Sanpete county way before the turn of the century and during the days when polygamy was just beginning to be ended. Were there many polygamist people in Sanpete County? CH: One of my chums down there was a son of a polygamist. JS: Do you remember his name? CH: His father’s name was Jense Hansen and he had three wives and each wife had children and one of the fellows with his first wife… I used to go over there and sleep sometimes, you know when good chum with the guy you know. Well anyway, I will never forget him either. He had a nice place there, he hada nice big two-story house there. That was right there near Fiddlers Green. And a little further up in this field there was another house that was his second wife. And across the street on another plot of land there was his third wife up on the hill. Well this gents Hansen used, well he was a good man you know. He used to go to town you know. Drive into town and maybe get a little shot. JS: A little whisky? CH: Yeah, I guess. They’d get him in his wagon in Mount Pleasant and the horses would come home to his wife right in his yard. That was funny but that was... JS: What were the attitudes of the Danish people in Denmark? I know you were young then, but what in general what where there attitudes toward polygamy. Was this a bother to them? Did this upset them? When did you find out about this concept of polygamy? 40 CH: Well I think it was in 1906. Wilford Woodruff was our president at that time. JS: 1886? CH: Yeah. I never believed any of it myself. But those I did know they lived their lives alright. Now this gent Janse and his wife was faithful and all his children was brought up nice. No trouble there, they worked together and everything was ok. JS: One thing that Sanpete County has always been noted for is that the Danish saints had a kind of more liberal attitude toward coffee and tea and perhaps even alcohol. Anton H Lund for example, who was Danish, was quoted one time or said one time that he didn't mind if the church made members drink stop drinking beer, he could see that, as long as it wasn't good Danish beer that they made him stop drinking. So they had kind of a different attitude. Was that true down in Sanpete County? CH: Yeah, they didn’t think it was wrong to take a drink. No, I don't think so. They really lived their religion right down there. If anybody had trouble, by golly ,we would go there and help them out. If they had burnt the house or had help with we'd go help build their homes. If they had trouble with their crops, we'd change work to help them out. JS: Their attitudes towards tobacco and tea I guess were the same way? CH: Oh yes. 41 JS: Was there much rivalry among Scandinavian people there? For example, you had Danes and Swedes and Norwegians. Was there much rivalry between the groups? CH: No, no they really, we worked together. We all was like one family. By golly. While the times were poor, we had some wonderful times. People lived in homes down there that didn't have windows in it. Glass was a luxury and floors, just straw for floors. And dug outs, they dig a hole in the mountain and cover it over. It was nice and warm in there. CH: And then, of course, they had log houses. They put in the cracks of the logs, they’d take chaff and mud and put it together and pack it in there and have and build a fireplace at one end of it. And that's where they'd done most of the cooking. JS: You left Sanpete county and came to Salt Lake in 1898 and you went to work for the Interstate Brick Company? CH: Salt Lake Brick Company. JS: Salt Lake. And that has been discussed quite fully in the oral interview you did with Tom Alexander. You were there ten years and after that you went, you became a barber and went with the streetcar and we talked about that part of your life. Well, I appreciate sitting down with you for a period of time and going over these things. It has been very interesting for me and I appreciate your willingness to participate.