Oral History Program Dale Orgill Interviewed by Alyssa Chaffee 26 July 2017 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Dale Orgill Interviewed by Alyssa Chaffee 26 July 2017 Copyright © 2018 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The World War II "All Out for Uncle Sam" oral history project contains interviews from veterans of the war, wives of soldiers, as well as individuals who were present during the war years. The interviews became the compelling background stories for the "All Out for Uncle Sam" exhibit. The project received funding from Utah Division of State History, Utah Humanities Council and Weber County RAMP. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Orgill, Dale, an oral history by Alyssa Chaffee, 26 July 2017, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. USS St. Lo circa 1944 USS St. Lo exploding 25 October 1944 Dale Orgill 26 July 2017 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Dale Orgill. The interview was conducted on July 26, 2017 by Alyssa Chaffee. In this interview, Dale discusses his life, his time serving in the United States Navy, and other experiences concerning World War II. Michael Ballif, the video technician, and Joyce Cotton were also present during this interview. AC: Today is July 26, 2017 at 10:00 am. We are here speaking with Dale Orgill about his experiences during World War II. I am also here with Joyce Cotton, who is his friend, and Mike Ballif who is at the camera. My name is Alyssa Chaffey and I’ll be conducting the interview. So, Dale, where and when were you born? DO: I was born in Heber City, Utah on the 25th of May, 1926. AC: What do you remember of the Depression in Heber City, Utah? DO: I don’t remember much about that because we had lived on the farm. We had the garden and we had all the groceries we needed. I was a very young and tender age, so I don’t know much about it. AC: So, in Heber City, were you living on a farm? Or were they neighborhoods? DO: I lived on a farm. I was born and raised on a farm. We had milk cows, pigs, horses, a few sheep and chickens; just a regular farm. I learned how to milk cows at six years old. Dad was busy farming, being water master and bishop of the church. He didn’t have much time to teach me, but I watched my brother, who was quite a bit older than me, do most everything when they worked. So, I learned how by watching them. MB: You said your dad was the water master? Was that to do with the water shares? 2 DO: It was water master. We had water out of the Provo River that come down through a tunnel. We irrigated the farm by ditches, so we put a dam in it and sent the water out on to where we farmed. We’d tend the water like that. MB: What were your parents’ names? DO: Joseph A. Orgill and Lilly Mud Orgill. Her maiden name was Bell. She was born in Salt Lake City, I think, and her parents lived down on Redwood Road. Then they moved up to Daniel, Utah by Heber. That’s where we had our farm, about three miles south of Heber. MB: How many siblings did you have? DO: I had one brother that died right after childbirth. Then my older brother and a sister that was older than me. I had a cousin. Her mother died when she was born and a lady down in the ward took her and nursed her until she was 11 days old. Then my mother raised her 'til she got married. She’s really my cousin, but she was like a sister. AC: What number were you in the sibling line, the oldest, middle, youngest? DO: Youngest. AC: What were some of the things that were your specific responsibility on your farm in Heber? DO: I started out helping mother feed the chickens and getting together eggs. Don’t put the eggs in your pocket, one or the other. I put the eggs in my pocket so she hit my pocket. I didn’t do it anymore. At six years old, dad woke me up and he said, “It’s time to learn to milk. I’ll see you in the barn in fifteen minutes.” I said, “Dad, it’s my sixth birthday. I want to sleep in.” He said, “You’ve got fourteen 3 minutes,” and walked out. So I got dressed and went out the barn. He picked up a stool, set it by a cow and put a bucket under its udder. He said, “Now this is how you milk. You don’t go like that. You go like that and milk.” That took be about a week, but I finally learned how to milk. I finally got it, at six years old. The farm boys, you had to go to work pretty early, so, you learned how to do things. AC: How early would you typically wake up? DO: Wake up about five in the morning. The cows had to be milked at 6:00 in the morning and 6:00 at night. Dad was very stern about that. He was really a fair dad and my mother was really good. If I was out playing and mother called for supper and I didn’t make it, I didn’t get to eat 'til the next meal. You learn pretty fast. They were really good parents. AC: Where were you when you learned that Pearl Harbor had been attacked? DO: I was 15, in high school, Wasatch High. We’d been living in Heber City. We’d moved to Heber City, from the farm, and later we moved back to the farm. I quit high school after my sophomore year, so I was probably in junior high or high school. AC: You said it was Wasatch High in Heber City? DO: Yes. AC: How did you find out about it? DO: The radio. We had radio, no TVs. I didn’t pay much attention to it at that age. When I was 16 years old, we sold the farm and moved here to Layton and me and my stepmother went to work. My mother died when I was 10 years old and he married about a year later. We moved down here and me and my stepmother 4 went to work down at Hill Air Force Base. I told dad I didn’t want to go to high school anymore because I’d have to go to Davis for my junior and senior year in Kaysville. So, at 16, I went up to Logan to the agriculture college, to a air captain engine mechanic learning course. When I graduated from that, I went to work at Hill Air Force Base. As soon as I turned 17, I joined the Navy. I learned how to drive a big truck, semitrailers, at 15. They had to put out an order when they were building the air force base up at Alaska. They needed truck drivers to haul that material, so I put in for that at 16 years old. They wouldn’t give me an interview. Finally I showed up at the commanding officer’s office and told them, “Why can’t I get an interview?” He said, “You’re just a kid, you wouldn’t do that.” I said, “I’m gonna walk out the door. You keep saying that because [inaudible]. So he gave me an interview. They had a semitrailer there. He said “You’ll have to drive that.” So he showed me how to start it and we drove around about a half hour. We had to take off from where it was parked, drive it between two rows of cars, out on the highway. We drove about 30 or 40 minutes and back. Then he said, “Oh, I want you to back it in. Don’t hit the dock.” So I backed it in to the dock and I told him, “Okay,” and I parked. He said, “I told you I didn’t want to hit the dock.” He said a few choice words to me. He got out and looked at it, come back on my side, the driver’s side and said, “I don’t know where you learned to drive but you’re one inch away from the dock.” So, I watched the shadows come together and then I stopped. He said, “I thought I’d make sure at work you were driving, but Jesus, where did you learn to drive?” I said, “I’ve been driving since I was 15.” 5 MB: Why did you decide to quit high school? DO: We’d moved down here, and it’d be a new school. I just didn’t want to go back to school. My stepmother was giving this heavy fleece-lined flying gear that the pilots wore in the plane and the heaters in the airplanes and she was in charge of putting that out. They gave it to the truck drivers who was going up to Alaska because there was no heaters in the trucks. My name come across her desk and when I got home that night, she said, “Dale, where are you going?” I said, “What makes you think I’m going someplace, Mom?” She told me, “Well your name came across at the desk today to issue you some heavy flying gear for going to Alaska.” I said, “Don’t tell dad about it because I will be gone here in a couple of days.” I had a suitcase all packed and under the bed. She told him, of course. He said, “Where’s your suitcase?” I said, “Under the bed.” He got out and dumped everything on the bed and said, “Put it away, you’re not going.” I said, “Well, if I go up there I’ll stay up there and work and I’ll be deferred.” This was in1943. I said, “Well I’m going into the Navy as soon as I am 17 and you’ll have to sign for me.” He said, “Okay. I’ll sign for ya.” I went to the Navy in June at 17. Went through boot camp. Come outta boot camp and was transferred to the receiving station in Treasure Island. From there, I got orders to VP 42 in San Diego, patrol plane squadron, C Plane. I worked there for a few months. Six of us that were new were transferred to China Lake, California because they could only take so many men to deploy overseas. So they transferred six of us up there. I found out where China Lake was, out on the desert. I said, “What in the world is a Navy base doing out on the desert?” There’s no lakes up there or oceans, but there 6 was a missile test center. They made missiles and shot ‘em. They had drones that they flew and they’d shoot these missiles at the drones. I made third class petty officer. I went up there and I made second class mech, but I wanted to be a photographer because it was so hot up there. You’d pick up a wrench and you’d burn your hands. I got into the photo album. Chief gave me an exam. I passed it alright, and they sent it to bureau personal in Washington to change my rate from aircraft engine mechanic to aerial photographer on my second class. That makes a difference. Sent another letter that I’d made second class mech and the message come in that you’d change over on this date from heavy ace machinist mate second class to aerial photographer second class, request B school. So you’re supposed to go through A school before you change your rate, but they changed my rate, with the exam the chief gave me, and I went into B school. I come out fifth in my class in B school in photography. We had to do ground work, movie work, all still cameras, and learn how to use most of them that the Navy had, plus the aerial cameras. When I come back to China Lake, I TAD down to Pensacola, Florida at the photo school and when I come back to my base at China Lake, we began flying in the jets to take aerial photographs, movies, of the missile firing. I took the air photographs of the Sidewinder missile. The firing plane would be right here and we’d be right here and I’d be shooting out this side. When they’d fire the missile, I’d follow it with the movie camera 'til it either missed the drone or hit it. If it would hit the drone, we immediately got out of the way because they’d fly the drone at about 250 miles an hour head-on; sometimes the side, but most times it’s head-on. Then I got transferred from 7 China Lake. I had orders to Hawaii. They canceled those out and sent me out to Whidbey Island, Washington to VP 1, Patrol Squadron 1. We flew in P2V Neptune aircraft, twin engine aircraft. I took aerial photographs during Korea, based in Okinawa for six months. When the six months is up, the squadron goes back to the home base because another squadron relieves ‘em. They’re there for six months and then another squadron relieves them. We come back to Whidbey Island and as soon as our six months was up, they sent us back to Okinawa. I put a year on Okinawa. Washington state is really pretty. AC: What year were you out in Okinawa? DO: In the ‘50s. When I was in boot camp, in the metal shop, I was told by the chief to go up and take the first class exam. They had the exams in their pots ready room and I said, “No, I’ve had aircraft engine mechanic experience so I should be third class.” He said, “No one skips a rate.” Well, I didn’t take the exam, but when my third class exam come out, he said, “Okay wise guy, go take the exam.” So I took it and passed it. Got what they call a crow. I got a third class and put on the uniform and then when I went into the metal shop he said, “You’re going to make coffee 'til I like it.” I said, “Chief, I didn’t come in here to make coffee. I come in to fight.” He said, “You’ll make coffee 'til I like it.” Those days, you didn’t sass the chief, or say anything, cause they pretty well run the Navy. Master chargers run the others because they were experienced. So I made coffee for a couple of weeks and he liked it so he took me off and put another fella in charge of it. I went up to the flight deck and there was a flight deck gas crew. I was 17. They had a fella 35 years old and they said, “You’re gonna be in charge of the 8 flight gas crew, nine men.” He said, “I’m in here for the duration of six months and when the times up, I’m leaving, so give it to somebody else. I’ll just do me job and that’s it.” They said, “You are the oldest one here. I am gonna assign you.” He says, “Sir, I do not want it.” They said, “Well okay, who would you recommend?” He pointed at me. He said, “He’s a farm boy. He’s worked on a farm. He knows what’s going on.” So I got it, this in charge, but there’s a lot. Your dad’s on the farm, he’s the boss, but you worked right alongside them, alongside of him. So we all worked the gas and the air cleared. We got taffy three, we were called. In our squadron we had six small aircraft carriers, three destroyers and four destroyer escorts. We weighed about ten thousand tons. The destroyers weighed about 2,500 tons and the escorts about 2,000 tons. Have you seen a map on Samar Island, the Philippines? Samar Island is out here and Surigao Straits comes down this way and San Bernardino Straits comes around down this way. We were out here in the sea. We were an air ship port so the army landed on there. Kurita, a Japanese commander, split his fleet and he sent half of them around this way and half up around. We didn’t know they were coming this way and the battleships down there that we had, had annihilated those. He didn’t know we were up there and we didn’t know he was up here and when they come around they had the CAP, Combat Air Patrol plane, up. He called the flagship with the French out bay and said there’s a Japanese fleet headed your way. The admiral said, “I need confirmation.” He said, “I’m being shot at, I’m being shot at.” He got out of there and give the directions. We were in a little shack there called the gas shack, where we had our life jackets 9 and things like that. Our life jackets were CO2 and we tried to climb on a plane with ‘em. We’d puncture them hard and they’d blow off CO2. So we hung them on the gas shack so we wouldn’t be setting them off all the time. We heard some explosions and we got out of the gas shack looked. There were three tall geysers of water going up and we just watched it. Then we run down and we was looking out on the horizon and we saw the flashes of the big guns. Have you heard of the Yamato? It’s the biggest battleship they ever made – 18 one-inch guns. We watched it fire our way. They were about thirty thousand yards away when they fired. We saw that and we run in the gas shack 'til we heard the explosion, then we ran out again and saw more geysers of water. They fired colored shells so they could see where they were hitting. They saw the general quarters. My battle station was about so far from the island on the flight deck, to gas the planes when they’d come in. I was up there and we had a look-out sitting in the middle seat with big binoculars. We had one on each corner of the flight deck like that. I was looking out on the flight deck at Samar Island. We could see Samar Island way in the distance and I said, “Call a bridge quick. Five Japanese planes at two o’clock, low.” You’d always give your time by the clock, so they’d know right where to look. I said, “Call the bridge and tell them that.” So he called the bridge, but by that time, I’d jumped on my catwalk from the flight deck and got a 20mm gun. When the Japanese fleet decided to leave, we only had part of the guns manned. So I jumped in the catwalk and I got a 20mm gun going, which takes three to really get going fast. By the time I got it going, I saw him turn back. I was in front of the island. Then I heard the sound of an engine speeding up. So I 10 climbed the gun across the flight deck, and I’ll get him when he comes across. He didn’t come across. He had one or two bombs on his wing and when he dove into the flight deck, he was right by the gas shack. I got up and I went back to get my flight life jacket. Lieutenant Palmer, flight deck officer, said, “Where you going?” I said, “My life jackets in the gas shack.” He said, “Burned up now, get forward.” So I started forward and there was an explosion in the forward elevator. It had slots about four feet between them. We tied the planes down to those. I was on the way back and I saw that the kid was on the flight deck in his underwear and it was kinda burned. He was burned real bad. I picked him up. Before I picked him up I saw the pilot’s helmet and I picked it up and I said, “You S.O.B.,” and threw it in the water. I picked him up and I took him forward to a first aid station and dropped him off. We got back on the flight deck. Then, I got a fire hose and we started pouring water down on the hangar deck because planes were burning there. There was another big explosion and I turned to get some more hose. There was a big explosion and it hit me. I got shrapnel in my right cheek and my upper right leg. Then we fired the water went out and was told to abandon ship. I said, “I might abandon ship. We’re only seven miles from land. The captain said, “Straight down.” So there was seven miles of water. You heard of Mariana’s trench? That’s where we got sunk. By the time the plane hit us, the ship sunk completely down in almost thirty minutes. You’ve ever seen that picture postcard with the explosion on the back end of the ship? It’s burning real bad. You see that ship, before I showed you where 11 the elevator is going? It was 700 feet in the air from explosion. That elevator was big enough to hold two fighter aircraft. That’s how big it was. AC: When you were told to abandon ship, what did you do? Were there boats you could get on? DO: I didn’t have a life jacket. You know the little sign they have on a car that gives you information on it? Chief got that, tore that off of the plane and he burned his hands. We wore gloves, flying or gassing airplanes. He come up to me and says “Where’s your life jacket?” I said, “I don’t have one.” He had the old CO2 on him and he had oil-inflated jacket on a pouch and the belt. He said, “I’ll trade you the pouch life jacket for your gloves.” So we exchanged and he put the gloves on and I put the life jacket on and then went down the line into the water. I was going past, trying to swim out away from the ship. The ship's engines were stopped and it was coasting, like a car out of gear. It went away and I was in the water for about an hour with the punctured life jacket. Shrapnel from that big explosion punctured my life jacket. There was a lot of people standing out on the Swanson. I saw legs and bodies flying out through the water. OJ Fought, my section leader in the metal shop, said he went over there and he went under and saw propellers of the ship and come back up. It had starboard list from that big explosion and it started to sink. The back went away and over and down. I had my head in the water and I watched it go down. When it went under, there was a big explosion and the ship that picked me up felt that explosion. They said that they thought we were gonna sink, it rocked the ship so bad. 12 AC: What did you do after that? I assume you had to recover for a while since you had all the shrapnel in your leg. DO: JC Butler was the short destroy escort that pick me up outta the water. It had a cargo net over the side. They had a boat out picking ‘em up but it was too slow so they just tied a line, got onto a floating net for about an hour and just holding on to it. I was so tired. We started to tow, pulling the line up to that ship and my ring finger caught between two floating blocks. I was stretched out and I was the last one off the net. I climbed as high as I could down the cargo net to get on the ship. I said, “I can’t go any higher. I just can’t make it.” Two fellows reached down and each of them grabbed a cheek and hoisted me up onto the deck. The gasoline officer, he saw me. He had a sweet roll and a coffee cup and when he saw me, he said, “Sit down and eat this.” So I stood there and ate that and then they took me down below and cut my clothes off of me. The sick bay on the destroyer escort is so small, and they didn’t have any instruments. They were all being used in there. They put some salve on my back, it was burned. Then they sprayed Merthiolate on my cheek and my leg, it was burned quite bad. I went up through three seal decks because it hurt, so bad. You’ve heard of Merthiolate? It’s like putting alcohol on it. After that, I stayed down there all night. The next day they gave me prayer dungarees, jeans and a shirt and a pair of black socks and a white hat. I went back up on deck and I couldn’t lay down except on my left side. We’d take our little white hats, we’d unfold it and make a pillow out of it. We slept on the deck till it got down, and they took us down into the Lady Gulf that night. The next day we left there and went down to the Mariana Island, I think it 13 was. When we got down there they put us in a Quonset hut with folded cots and the survivors they had on that ship. The next morning when we woke up, we were all sleeping on the floor, the cots were too soft. A ship was torpedoed and it came in. They call it watertight integrity; they seal off the ship to win the battle. If you’re in that compartment, its sealed off, and it hits there, you’re gone. They were holding electric cords, or to the beams, and they had their head up trying to breathe, but they just drowned. We had to go in and pick those fellas out. We was still waiting to go into the ship when an officer come along and said to the chief, “What are these fellas doing out here?” “They’re going to take those bodies, out of that ship that came in there.” He said, “No, they are not. They’re survivors off the Sego. You get them outta here.” So we went back to the Quonset hut, so we didn’t have to do that. Then we got a transport into Pearl Harbor. When we got to Pearl Harbor they gave us Navy dungarees and said, “If we give you uniforms here, they’ll just have to bring more out.” So, the navy doesn’t let their people in work clothes go short, not on Liberty. We went on the Liberty and they said, “What are you doing in dunagrees?” “Their off the St. Lo.” “Okay, have fun.” So they told ‘em not to bother us when we were on their ship. I spent about three months in the hospital, but I got a 30 day leave to come home. I couldn’t sit down very well and just lay on my left side with third degrees up on my back. I had been in the hospital for about two or three months. They got most of the shrapnel outta me and so I just started getting well. AC: So you said they took you to Pearl Harbor? Was that still a working base, even after the attack in December? 14 DO: Yeah, that was way after the attack. This happened in 1944. The ship went down 25th of October 1944. AC: So they still used it as a working base even after the attack? DO: Oh yeah. AC: Your father worked at Hill Air Force Base, is that correct? DO: Yes. AC: What did he do there? DO: He was running some compressors in the engineering ship. My mother worked as a office personnel. When I graduated from the college up there in my class, I come down and worked at Hill. We all come down and worked at Hill in the engine repair shop, tearing the old aircraft engines apart for overhaul. I worked in what they call the dunk tanks. They’d put the small parts in a cage. I had an electric hoist. I’d drop it into a vat that would take all the old grease off of it, and raise it outta there and put it in neutral stuff to neutralize all the acid or water that was taken off. Then pick it up and put it in another hot water tank to kind of wash it off good, raise it up and it would drip dry. Then they’d put it on a stand and take it away to measure and check the parts and see if they’re alright. I did that extra because they didn’t have folks come in. The shop foreman come through and he said “You’re gonna have to work a couple more weeks in the dunk tanks until you’re transferred into the disassembly shop.” So I stayed there a couple more weeks. My brother was foreman, right at the final engine assembly line. The foreman said, “You’re gonna work for your brother over there.” I said, “He won’t let me work for him and I don’t wanna work for him.” He said, “I’m the foreman, 15 you’re gonna work for him.” So, Monday morning I punched in and I was standing over there by his line. He said, “What’re you doing over here? Go back to work.” I says, “I’m gonna be working for you.” He took me by the hand and we went in to the foreman’s shop. He said, “He’s my brother. He’s gonna learn like everybody else. He isn’t gonna work for me. He’s gonna learn.” Purcell said, “Who’s the foreman of the shop?” Dell says, “You are.” He said, “That’s right. Get out of here and go to work. Find him somethin’ to do.” So we went out and he give me a bucket of kerosene and some rags and I had to clean the drip pans. When they filled the engines up, they’d drop oil and safety wire and bolts and things like that down to the bottom of the pan and I have to pick that out, separate ‘em a little bit and then clean the pans out really good. Purcell would come along twice a day and watch me cleaning those pans out. I worked in there for one week and then he said, “Okay, you’re gonna go in this bay here. Start putting the engine together.” I worked a week there. Went to the next bay, worked a week. Next one a week, and the next one a week. Finally, final assembly. Put the needles on and torqued the thresh net, and sent it to the test block for testing. Gerald lost his partner up there, went to another job. So my brother said, “Pick one of the fellows that you want work.” He said, “I already got him picked out.” He said, “Okay. Tell him to come to work with ya.” So I went up with Keller and started work for him and Gerald come along to me and my brother said, “What are you doing up here?” I said, “I’m working for Keller.” He says, “Like hell you are. You go back to some of the other lines.” So I went another trip to Purcell’s office. He said, “I’m the foreman here and he’s working up there, so you might as well get out. Go to 16 work.” Then I joined the Navy after that. Turned 17 when I joined the Navy. Went to Treasure Island and got orders to VP 42 in San Diego, so went down there. MB: After the St. Lo was sunk, you were detailed back to Pearl Harbor for recovery, then? DO: Come to Pearl Harbor and then traveled to the states and went to a hospital in the states. MB: Were you in a hospital in the states when the war ended? DO: Yes. MB: Was that in Opal? DO: No, I wasn’t in there when it ended. I was in a squadron in California just when it ended, Los Alamitos Naval Air Station. I was hitchhiking into Long Beach when the personnel officer at the base picked me up and he says, “Whatcha gonna do now that the wars over?” I said, “I’m gonna get out.” He says, “I have authority to give you another rate if you stay in. Real nice.” I said, “No, I’m gonna get out.” So, I got out on points with a Purple Heart. It was 1946. 1947 I got married and 1950 I went back in. Stayed for twenty years. That’s when I went to another squadron and worked around in the Navy various places. I retired, 26 years, at Oakland, California. By this time I’d made lieutenant and retired as a lieutenant. I went from E6 to three stripes up there, red stripes. I missed Chief Petty Officer, which is E7. Get the three stripes with a rocker over it for E7. My first job as Ensign, was photo officer down in Guantanamo Bay. I went two years down there, photograph officer on the base. Then I was transferred to VP 62 in Florida. They were the squadron that took the pictures of the missiles in Cuba. I was in 17 that squadron when they did that. From there I went over to Pensacola to the photo school. I was assistant of public affairs officer first, and then I went as a A school assistant officer. Then I became an A school officer in charge of A School. Then I was supposed to go to B School, as the XO. New XO and I checked into that school together. He called me and said, “Okay it’s time for you to go to B School instead of A School.” A School is where all the new kids come in. I said, “I’m well acquainted with that.” Then I stayed for another six months. Nobody ever was transferred. He left me there and I stayed there until I went to the America for 25 months. Then I went from there to Oakland, California and retired from Oakland. My career has been just real good all the way through. MB: Why did you decide to go back into the Navy? DO: I was married and we had a little boy. We were both working at the Naval Supply Depot in Clearfield. We’d come home and had dinner one night. We talked about where we gonna be twenty years down the road. We were looking long range and we discussed civilian life and military life. I said, “You know, if I go back into the Navy, I can retire after twenty years and 50% pay.” We thought about that and both of us decided that I would go back in. So I went down to Salt Lake to the recruiting office. I had a lot of pains when I got out. I went to a dentist in Kaysville and he looked and he says, “Are you in pain a lot?” I said, “Yes.” He said, “Your teeth is so bad.” I said, “But all I got is a couple of small cavities and I had ‘em all filled.” He said, “Well, as long as you have those teeth, you’re gonna have pains.” So he give me the name of a dentist in Salt Lake at the old arms’ plant and said, “Go see him.” So I went down there. He said, “Your teeth have 18 got to come out.” So they pulled most of ‘em out, and sewed ‘em up. When that got better, he said, “Come back and get the rest of ‘em.” Well they give me the dentures and I went home. Have you ever tried to put a teaspoon in your mouth with it full of new teeth? It took me a while to get on to ‘em real good. I was told that the doctor wouldn’t even give me a physical cause I had dentures. Looked in my mouth and said, “We don’t want you.” They can take new recruits if they wanted, but they could only take six veterans back. He said, “We won’t even give you a physical so don’t ever come back.” When I got back to the Navy base in Clearfield, I told the boss about it. He said, “You really wanna go in, huh?” I said, “Yes sir, I really did wanna, but I can’t now.” So I went back to work and a few days later, he called me and he said, “You go out there to the recruiting office in Salt Lake. They wanna give you a physical.” I said, “No, the head commander down there, the officer in charge told me ‘Don’t come back because you’ve got dentures.’” He said, “Well you go down and talk to ‘em now.” So when I walked in, he said, “Who do you know in Washington?” I said, “I don’t know anybody other than the president. I know his name, but I’d never seen him.” He said, “Well, we got orders to give you a physical.” So they gave me a physical and that was the only thing wrong, my dentures. They said, “Okay, you be here on this date to be sworn in.” I said, “I’ll be here unless something happens and I can’t make it.” So when I went back I told the boss and he said, “We got to train somebody so you won’t be able to keep that date.” I said, “Well, okay, I’ll forget about the Navy then.” So I trained a fella to take my place and he called me in and he said, “Okay, you’re supposed to go down on this date to be 19 sworn into the Navy.” I said, “My date’s already passed. That lieutenant commander won’t do it.” He said, “Well, you go down and talk to him. I sealed it.” So when I walked in, he said “Who do you know in Washington?” I said, “I don’t know anybody, except the president, like I told you. I know his name, but that’s all.” He said, “Well, we have orders to swear you in now. You missed the original date that I told you about, but we got the orders to swear you in.” So they swore me in the Navy and he said, “Be here in two or three days and you’ll be transferred to Treasure Island and receive your station. Wait for orders there.” So I went down to the receiving station at Treasure Island. I was third class, so that means same rank that I come out as. I met OJ Fought down there, who was chief petty officer. He was E6, first class, and my shop chief in the Navy in World War II. He stayed in and he made chief. He was down there awaiting orders. The seaman had to sweep the roads and the petty officers just had to oversee it. One officer looked over at me, we made eye contact and he gave everybody a job and left me standing there. I said, “What am I gonna be doing?” He said, “You’re gonna go with me. I’ve got a special job for you.” So we went up to PX and got a cup of coffee and sit on the table and I says, “What am I supposed to do?” He said, “Drink your coffee.” We talked about the St. Lo going down. I was there about a week, and all the week I was there I didn’t have to do anything. We just went to the PX and got coffee. Then I got transferred to VP 42 in San Diego. From then on, it was just good Navy, flying and reconnaissance work and watches and things like that. 20 AC: What did you do during the time between the end of World War II and when you went back into the Navy? What job did you have? DO: I was an inspector at the Clearfield Naval Supply Depot. They had the warehouse full of old aircraft engines. We had to unbox them, look at them and box ‘em back up. They were selling them off surplus and we had to make sure that they looked pretty good. I was there until I went back into the Navy. AC: Did you have any other brothers that served during World War II? DO: I just had that one brother, Gerald. That first one born died. AC: So your one brother, he didn’t serve in World War II? DO: No, he didn’t serve in the war. He was a foreman in an assembly line. Then he left there and go a better job down in Los Alamitos, California, right down there by the engines. AC: Before you joined the Navy, when you were a teenager during war years, how did that affect your personal life? Did you and your friends talk about the war a lot? DO: No, not really that I can remember. After my sophomore year, we moved down to Layton and I didn’t go back to school for junior or senior year. I didn’t think much about it, other than listen on the radio. We didn’t talk much about it. AC: How did you meet your wife? DO: Oh, that was funny. I was out of the navy and living in Layton. My friend had been in the Navy and he had a girlfriend and they stopped by to see me. They said, “We’re gonna be driving around town, come and go with us.” Just nothing to do, so. I said, “I’ll be alone. I don’t have a girlfriend or anything like that. Don’t 21 know anybody.” So, his girlfriend said, “Well I know a girl, maybe she’d go with us. We’ll stop and see.” So I got in the car and we drove down to Jean’s place and she knocked on her door and said, “We’ve got a nice fellow out in the car that doesn’t have a date. Would you go with us? We’re just gonna drive around town.” She said, “Well I guess so.” She was 16 or 17. We started driving around town and I said, “Have you girls ever been out of the state?” “No, we’ve never been out.” So, I told them, “Evanston, Wyoming is only about 70 miles from here. Let’s drive up there and I’ll buy us lunch and we’ll come back. That way the girls can say they’ve been outta the state.” So we did that and just as we crossed the line back into Utah, coming back, I turned her head to me and I kissed her. She went to grab my arm and I grabbed her arm. She slapped me and I grabbed her arm and I told her, “You know, my dad told me never steal. I stole a kiss but I will make restitution.” Before we got to her place, I kissed again and she didn’t try to hit me. That started us dating. Then, we got engaged in November and were married in February. AC: When was that date again, that first date? DO: It was in November sometime. I never thought about it much other than that. AC: So you dated for about a year until you got engaged? DO: Well we dated until February, then we got married in February. We got married the 7th of February. We brought one boy and one girl into the world and she died of cancer at Travis Air Force Base. We’d been married for four days short of forty-four years. She was with me all the time throughout my Navy career after we got married. 22 AC: What was her name? DO: Jean Bergener. She invited me to dinner one day. I was sitting at the table, and we’re talking. Come to find out, she was born in Park City and I was born in Heber City. They were miners and her dad said, “What was your last name?” I said, “Orgill.” He says, “You’re Orgill?” I said, “That’s my dad.” “Well I know a Jew real good, we were in the mines together.” Her mother was born in Center Creek, which is suburb of Heber, like Daniels was. When I gave her a ring, she went in and told her dad and mother about it. They said, “Okay. He’s the guy to be married to.” AC: How many children did you two have? DO: Just the two. A boy and a girl. AC: What were their names? DO: Paul is the boy. And Julie was the girl. Paul got to be heavy smoker. He went into the Air Force and retired out. He was only retired a year and died from smoking. My daughter, she was a dispatcher in Layton for several years and retired. Her husband was an officer in Sunset City, police officer. They both retired and moved on to Whidbey Island, Washington, where her son moved. She wanted to get out of the area here for the traffic. I was living with her down in Clinton and we’d see officer that she knew as we went into Wal-Mart and Target. She’d stop and talk to them and they’d say, “Okay, Julie, when you coming back to work?” “No, I’m not coming back to work.” “Oh, we need you back to work.” People really liked her. She worked nights cause the chief wasn’t around to bother ‘em. That what’s I did at one of the races, worked night shift, changing the engines on 23 torpedo planes. Nobody around there to bother you. She liked the night work. She trained quite a few of the gals to do it also. When a new officer would come in, “Why don’t you call so-and-so, I need to talk to ‘em?” Julie would say, “Well, you’re new here. You have to make your own phone calls when you’re in the office. I’d be glad to do it when you’re out on the road, but when you’re in the office you make your own phone calls.” The chief happened to be in this one day, so he said, “I’m gonna tell the chief if you’re not going to make any calls for me.” So he went and talked to the chief and chief said, “You go back and talk nice to Julie and see what she says.” So he went back and he was quite nice. The first time he wasn’t, the second time he was. She said, “I told you, you have to make your own phone calls. I am telling you very nice again that you have to do that.” He said, “I’m gonna have to go back and tell the chief.” She said, “Okay.” He could hear all this going on and he knew what was gonna happen, knowing Julie. She was really good. So he went back in and told the chief what she said, and he said, “Well I guess you’ll have to make your own phone call then.” JC: She worked for the FBI too, didn’t she? DO: Yeah. She went to Washington and worked for the FBI. I was inspecting Holiday Inns after I retired out of the Navy, and I went into Washington with Jean. We stayed there with her. They had three girls in the apartment. We stayed there that night and she and Jean went to Congress. Sat in there and saw a session. Julie was working for the FBI then. They had to work for a year, otherwise they had to pay their own transportation back home. They paid their transportation to get in. When she quit, we came home, she went to dispatching again. 24 AC: After you retired from the Navy, you said you were inspecting. What was it exactly? DO: Holiday Inns. Every place there was a Holiday Inn, we went to inspect it. In the states, the territories, they call it, we went out for three months. When we finished the territory in three months, we get a new territory. Well I’d have my territory done a week to ten days early. I came back in and the boss would say, “Everything done?” I’d say, “Yes.” He’d say, “Polly, get Dale airline tickets to San Francisco.” We lived in Memphis, Tennessee. He’d tell me, “You gotta go down there and inspect an Inn.” So I’d fly down there and inspect it and come back. I’d call my wife and tell her that I’m going to San Francisco, I’ll be back tomorrow. I got a lot of trips like that because he trusted me. I did my work good. Ed told me, “You can get a lot of jobs you won’t like, but you do the best you can because someone is watching.” It paid off for me. JC: What are some of the countries you went to? DO: I went to Italy, Germany, England, Africa, South Africa, Botswana. JC: There was one place where they had a war going on. Where was that? They had some trouble in their country. DO: Vietnam? JC: No. I thought it was another country. DO: I was in Vietnam a few times. I can’t remember all of ‘em. I learned to speak ‘Thank you’ and ‘Please’ in each country, but I didn’t have time to really learn any more than that. I spent 41 days over in South Africa. We went to Botswana. Botswana is where the fella got in trouble for killing that lion. They had a stand 25 made up for the bus stop, for the natives. There was a lion up on top of the bus stop, and I was with a rancher in South Africa. We went in to Botswana and he saw that lion laying up there, so we drove alongside in a Land Rover and I opened the hatch, stood up and took a picture. I could reach out and rub its front legs. It started to raise up, and I immediately come down and closed the door. JC: It almost had Dale for lunch. DO: I had a fellow innkeeper from the company in South Africa, and he and his wife was with us. She kept pulling my pant leg. “He’s gonna get you. He’s gonna get you. He’s gonna get you.” When I come down, she said, “Why did you come down so fast?” I said, “Well, I really didn’t know whether he was gonna kiss me or bite me and I didn’t want to take a chance.” “You didn’t want to take a chance? You stood up there!” I’ve never taken any chances in my life. They’ve all been opportunities. JC: Then he took a chance with me. DO: No, an opportunity. The lady that I married, Wilma. She lost her husband in South Carolina and moved up here. I met her at the Senior Center. We got married. Her daughter lived with a fellow who was a paraplegic. After Wilma died, I went down to visit them for a few days. Then he died, so she wanted to come up here and see me. So she came up and I couldn’t drive any more so she drove. We went up into Yellowstone and showed her around there cause she didn’t have much time. Then we went up to Jackson and went on the lift going up the Tetons and back. Then we went up to Yellowstone in May and it snowed on us up there. My daughter and her husband were up there and we had dinner with 26 them. They had their two grandchildren. They were on their way back down here; so we got together and had dinner. Then they come on back and we went on up to Yellowstone. When we got outta Yellowstone, I got a picture of a bison and a calf nursing and I titled it ‘Lunchbreak.’ AC: Did you do photography professionally or was it more of hobby of yours? DO: I did that in the Navy for about twenty years. AC: After you got out of the Navy, did you sell photographs of wildlife and such? DO: I did mostly Navy photography, not wildlife. I did the wildlife after I retired. AC: We’re gonna go ahead and wrap up, but I wanted to ask you, how do you feel that World War II has impacted your life as a whole? DO: I was busy working and it didn’t bother me ‘til I seen the ship went down. I didn’t think too much about it. I wasn’t scared. I still kept my wits about me. There wasn’t anything to worry about. When I was in the water, I said to myself, “I’ll never worry, I’ll never have anxiety, and I’ll never be depressed.” I’ve lived up to that, since I was 18. I was 18 when the ship went down. After I retired, we lived in Layton and we had a Japanese exchange student with us. The students usually went to doctors in the area for their tour. I’d been working and I was in bed when the two doctor’s wives came in to interview us. My wife woke me up and she says, “Come on out, they’re here to interview us.” I didn’t have a shirt on and I just put my pants on and my socks and walked out. Jean was beside herself. We had the interview and after they left, she said, “Well that’s the end of the interview. You should have put a shirt one.” I said, “Well, that’s the way we are. So, if they don’t like it, they can leave it.” Next thing, we knew we got the 27 exchange student. Her name was Maki and her dad was an inspector for the Bank of Tokyo. He had a friend in San Francisco that had the Bank of Tokyo in there. We took her to Disneyland, and when she got ready to go back, we stopped by San Francisco. Her dad wrote a letter and told her, if you ever go to San Francisco, you stop in the bank to see him. She wasn’t allowed to ride the snowmobile or fly in a private plane or anything dangerous like that. We wanted to go out with my young niece and her husband snowmobiling, but we couldn’t get permission from the authorities here in the states. So she wrote to her dad and her mother about it. He wrote a letter to them and said that he has a daughter, and she’s with him and he’s responsible for her, and what he lets his daughter do, she can do anything, she’s in charge. So if she calls you and tells you she’s going up and flying in that airplane, all you can do is say yes. So we went snowmobiling and then we went to San Francisco and Disneyland. We went into the bank to see his friend and I went up to the teller and I ask her to see this fellow. Well he’s the president of the bank you can’t go up and see him. I said, “Would you call him?” “No, I can’t call him.” I said, “Please call his secretary and tell him Maki Ogawa is here.” “Well, I can’t do that.” I said, “Let me talk to your supervisor.” So he come over and I told him about it. She was standing there with me. So he called him, and he says, “Just have them stay right there, I’ll be right down.” So he come down and he was kinda surprised, you know, and he greeted her and give her a hug and shook my hand. He says, “Come on up to the office.” We went up there and talked for probably an hour. When we come back down he says, “If they walk into this bank again, you call me. Her dad and me are real 28 good friends.” We had a pretty good time with her. They’re all taught to sit with their legs together. We bought Julie and her a pair of jeans, because Julie would come in and sit down and throw her legs up. So Maki tried it with the jeans. “My dad would kill me if he saw me now.” I said, “Well, you’re wearing jeans so everything is alright.” We got along real good. She couldn’t eat margarine though. She said, “There’s no way I can eat margarine.” Jean says, “What do you think you’ve been eating since you’ve been here?” We never bought butter. She says, “I’ve been eating margarine?” I said, “That’s right.” “I didn’t know that.” She was very good. We got along really good with her and the other exchange students. AC: We’re going to go ahead and wrap up now. Thank you so much. We really appreciate your time and all your fantastic stories.