Oral History Program William Strong Interviewed by Lorrie Rands 9 May 2019 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah William Strong Interviewed by Lorrie Rands 9 May 2019 Copyright © 2024 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description Railroad Sesquicentennial Project. In 2019, the joining of the railways at Promontory Point in Utah celebrated its 150th anniversary. This oral history project was conducted at the Union Station in Ogden, Utah, on May 9 and 10, 2019, and captured stories from individuals and their family members who worked on the railroad throughout the intermountain west. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Strong, William, an oral history by Lorrie Rands, 9 May 2019, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections and University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The Following is an oral history interview with William Strong conducted on May 9, 2019 at the Union Station in Ogden, Utah with Lorrie Rands. William shares his knowledge of his ancestor William Barstow Strong who was the president of the Santa Fe Railroad in the early 1900s. He also talks about his love for the railroad and the impact it has on his life. Also present is Alyssa Dove. LR: So today is May 9, 2019, we are at the Union Station in Ogden, Utah talking with William Strong about his memories of the railroad. My name is Lorrie Rands and Alyssa Dove is with me. So your ancestor William Strong, were you named after him? WS: Yes. LR: Okay, and what was his name? WS: William Barstow Strong. He had three sons. William J.H. Strong, the youngest of the three, was my grandfather. My father was William Leavitt Strong. I’m William Kendrick Strong. My son is William Montague Strong. So we’re in a rut. LR: Wow, a lot of Williams. WS: My ancestor moved to Beloit, Wisconsin at the age of fourteen. I’ve done a fair amount of research on him growing up and starting in the railroading in southern Wisconsin. He was a station agent as a teenager, and railroading was just coming into southern Wisconsin during that period. I’ve generally traced his employment on various roads up until the time when he joined the Santa Fe. All this information is second or third hand to me. The information on Beloit, a lot of it’s second-hand from my mother and from my research, on reading things about Beloit and picking up on him. I’m not so strong, excuse the pun, on his career 1 with the Santa Fe. I’m working with an author working on a book on him, and that’s his bag. I’ve filled in a lot on William B’s retirement, ‘cause he retired in Beloit and he was a very wealthy man then. He bought a lot of parcels of real property and I’ve researched the original property records to get an idea of what it was all about. Then I’ve somewhat followed up on his moving from Beloit to the Los Angeles area. LR: Where did your love of the railroad come from? Why do you love it so much? WS: My mother. My father died when I was very young and my mother tried to educate me on William Barstow Strong, who she knew generally as a, quote, “Great man.” She told me a few things about him. William Barstow Strong was issued a silver railroad pass for the Silverton Railroad for the year 1889. I made a belt buckle reproduction of that, so this is a full-sized copy, or replica, of the silver pass. LR: That’s so cool. WS: The silver pass only weighed one ounce. Anyway, I was given that as a kid and for a while, even carried it around in my billfold. Now, they’re very valuable collector’s items. I’ve also written a book on the Mears, Otto Mears, silver passes, so I’ve enjoyed all that. LR: As you were learning about William, your ancestor, what about him really sparked your interest to continue? WS: I guess it was I was told that Barstow, California was named after him, and the details on that were filled in later. The Santa Fe had a line running from southern California, I think it was, or maybe Arizona, down to Guaymas, Mexico and the 2 Southern Pacific had a line running across southern California. The Santa Fe very much wanted to get into southern California and so the Santa Fe essentially traded its Guaymas, Mexico branch to the Southern Pacific. In fact, if I have the name of the railroad correct, a division point on the Southern Pacific was named Waterman Junction and when the Santa Fe took it over they immediately renamed it after the president of the road, Barstow. LR: Okay, that makes sense. WS: What I’ve done, as I think I’ve mentioned to you, is to assist Tom Hoback in researching my great-grandfather. I’ve visited the town in which he was born in Brownington, Vermont. He was born in 1837. His parents ran a temperance inn, the town was on the main road between Boston and Montreal, and it was a overnight stop there. There was a non-temperance inn right across the road. But the temperance inn, I won’t go into detail but it was really abstinence not temperance, and his parents operated that. They moved to Beloit, Wisconsin in 1851, William B. was fourteen years old then, and they were stalwart members of a little congregational church, which is still there and an active church. William B.’s education, we don’t have much information about his formal education but there was a grammar school there and, undoubtedly, he went to that grammar school. In Beloit, Wisconsin, the only records of his education is that he went one semester at the Beloit College Academy, which was like a high school. He also had a year at Bell’s Business College in Chicago, and that was the extent of his formal education; back then there wasn’t nearly as much to learn as there is now 3 so he made a great deal of it. His older brother, James, was a station agent for his city area, the Milwaukee Road, which had a station in Beloit, and William B. probably hung around with his brother doing stuff in the station and was generally familiar with what happened in a railroad station. He served as the station agent in Janesville, Wisconsin, as a teenager on a temporary basis. Janesville station was the second most important station on that particular railroad after the one in Milwaukee. LR: So I’m curious, you mentioned that he moved to California, that William Strong, he moved to California, correct? WS: Yes. After his health declined, as a fairly old man. I can’t give you an exact year but it was probably 1908. LR: Okay, so I’m curious. He started his career in Beloit, Wisconsin and he created quite a name for himself there. Is that correct? WS: Well, if you want me to speed up I can. LR: Yeah, we have about twenty-five minutes. WS: Okay, he had experience as a temporary station agent in Janesville. After that was over, the same railroad hired him to be the first station agent in Milton, Wisconsin as a teenager. He served in other railroad stations in southern Wisconsin. He ended back up at Janesville for, I think, a period of eight years before he graduated to bigger and better things. He worked for the Burlington Northern group, and we would think it was of some city areas of Burlington, Quincey, and I’m not sure. Anyway, it was the Burlington Northern. He worked in various capacities for them for several years and grew up in management. 4 He had a year at the Michigan Central, on loan from the Burlington as the general manager of the Michigan Central. He came back to work for Burlington and the Santa Fe Railroad wanted to hire him as its general manager in about 1875 or 1876. You can compute his age at that time, maybe in his forties. I have seen a copy of his written contract with the Santa Fe and it was a thousand dollars a month, which was a princely sum then. He was hired on as a general manager, he became vice president quite quickly and then he became president. As president, he was required to live in the Boston area and he built a home in Boston and would go out traveling in the West in the summertime to see what was going on with the construction. While he was with the Santa Fe, it had extended from its origin in Kansas to Pueblo, Colorado. He was the general manager of the Santa Fe when it won the race over Raton Pass against the Rio Grande Railroad, and he was at its helm through the Royal Gorge War. The Santa Fe actually built the first trackage through the Royal Gorge and the famous hanging bridge. A lot of other things were done just besides the expansion in that period of time. But the Santa Fe, by settlement of the Royal Gorge War—it was called the Treaty of Boston—it was forced to expand to the south, going down through New Mexico and then circle into Arizona. At that time, there were probably no real railroad business to come from New Mexico so they had to get into southern California in order to be economical and I mentioned how they bought the line. They bought the line in southern California from the Central—I’m sorry, I can’t remember the name of the line right now. 5 LR: That’s fine. WS: The entry of the Santa Fe into southern California was focused first on San Diego. There is a beautiful depot in San Diego that wasn’t built when Santa Fe first arrived there and then that was the key to the Santa Fe moving up to first Los Angeles and then San Francisco. I think when the Tehachapi Pass railroad was built that the Santa Fe was a participant in that. LR: So did your ancestor help create all of this with the Santa Fe? Or was he just working for them at the time? WS: Well, he was the president so he would set policy and that sort of thing. LR: Okay, alright. That’s kind of what I meant. I don’t think you had mentioned that he was president of the Santa Fe. WS: Oh, he was. He was hired as general manager and became vice president and later president. I can’t tell you the year he became president, but he retired as president at the end of 1889. LR: Did the Santa Fe ever come into the Utah area at all? WS: No. LR: Okay, I thought I remembered stories of—maybe it was just the Southern Union Pacific that I remember—I thought the Santa Fe came into Utah, but apparently it didn’t. WS: I don’t think so. I think its first line was in through Arizona. LR: Okay, I’d like to know a little bit more about your history of your involvement with the railroad; is it just a hobby, the railroad, for you? Or did you work? WS: Yes, I’m a retired attorney. 6 LR: Okay, when did you start getting into it the way you are now? WS: Oh, it was pretty gradual. I went to the Durango and Silverton railroad, it was then part of the Rio Grande system, and rode on it and showed my pass and they said, “Gee, that’s pretty unusual.” They wouldn’t honor it though, I didn’t blame them ‘cause it was for the year 1889. They gave me a clue that I had an unusual piece of railroad history. I talked about having a belt buckle reproduction of it made, and it was made in about 1982. I bought a motorhome in the year 2000 and I think I joined the Golden Spike Chapter of the Family Motor Coach Association in the year 2001, and through that I’ve learned a lot about railroading in general. I’m particularly interested in Colorado early days railroading and I have most of the major history books on Colorado early days railroading. LR: That’s cool. Why is today, this event so important to you? WS: Well, it’s an important event in the railroad history and I’m interested in railroad history. Our group is having a big rally here. Our rallies are usually fifteen to twenty rigs, we have something like thirty-five for this one. LR: Okay, so like double. You mentioned it’s an important day in railroad history. I know the why, but I want to know from your point of view, why is it important to you? Why is this event important to you? WS: Well, I’ve been to Promontory on three occasions. I think it’s important to me because I’m in the Golden Spike Chapter of FMCA, otherwise, I wouldn’t be here. 7 LR: Okay. I really wanted to get that so that’s why I moved off of your topic. What I find interesting is you said your mother talked to you a lot about William Barstow Strong, and there were so many different types of railroads back in the early 1900, late 1800s, and the fact that he made his name being the president of the Santa Fe Railroad, that’s kind of cool. From learning about him and learning his history, how has that impacted your life? WS: I don’t think it’s helped me particularly. William B. was raised in a rather devout Christian family and he applied those principles in his actions as a manager and president of the Santa Fe. He was very well liked by the employees. He could call many by their first names when he went out on the line. He had a lot of innovative development—he pushed a lot of innovative transactions in the Santa Fe. I learned about this from Tom Hoback, the Santa Fe could get freight from the West Coast to Chicago in a day less by avoiding tracks going through every little burg that would give money, bond issues, or land to the Santa Fe. The Santa Fe built what is called an air line probably from Kansas to Chicago and that was making the railroad as straight as possible over the topography and that was very significant. Why, it’s cutting off a day in delivery of freight to Chicago. That doesn’t sound very exciting to a layman but to somebody in the railroad business it would. LR: Right. This is really fascinating to me, so I’m enjoying this. The fact that you know so much about him and the research that you’ve obviously done about William 8 B., how has that changed your perspective on the progression of the railroad? Knowing that you have a strong connection to it. WS: Well, Mr. Hoback highly respects William B. as being a standout in the moral approaches taken to the railroad business, and that’s something that I think needs to be emphasized. He wasn’t guilty in many of the shady practices of his rivals. One thing that gives some humanity to him, Fred Harvey was prominent in having restaurants along the Santa Fe Railroad, and he had one when William B. joined the Santa Fe and then a lot more were built. Fred Harvey’s children, I read in a history book on Fred Harvey, called William B. Uncle Bill, so they were close socially. The Harvey Houses are an example of how railroading should have been done in the era, but only the Santa Fe did them. LR: What are the Harvey Houses? WS: The Harvey Houses were eating establishments for passengers to get off the train, have something to eat, and then get back on and continue on their travels. The Harvey Houses were served by Harvey girls who were recruited to serve as waitresses. In the Harvey Houses, people were served on tables with linen tablecloths, actual silverware, or at least good quality tableware there, and the food was always good. The Santa Fe Railroad carried the beef for nothing in refrigerated cars to the various restaurants that Fred Harvey operated on the line. There was a close association between Fred Harvey and the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe. All of this resulted from an oral contract that both parties honored LR: That wouldn’t happen today. WS: Even in that era, sometimes complicated, oral agreements were not common. 9 LR: So how many of these Harvey restaurants were there along the line? WS: I have no idea. LR: Okay, ‘cause it’s kind of a cool thing. WS: Fifty or seventy-five perhaps. It ought to be in the book on Fred Harvey. LR: Okay. So only the Santa Fe had these? WS: Yes. LR: I wonder why? WS: The Union Pacific for example, and I’ve not yet done any reading on it, probably used local restaurants, and they were not the quality of eating that were provided in the Harvey Houses. LR: Hmm, that’s just cool. I learned something today. Before we wrap up is there anything else that you’d like to share about your love of William and the things that you’ve learned about him? WS: Yeah. William B., when he retired from the Santa Fe, moved back to Beloit, Wisconsin. He bought a farm of a hundred acres and he bought adjacent land to it to bring it up to four hundred acres. He bought some other parcels of land and those parcels have since been developed as part of the eastern end of Beloit, in terms of residential and commercial. He became ill with Parkinson’s Disease. It’s a debilitating disease of the brain that causes death over eight to ten years, and your body just generally deteriorates. Apparently, he took that all very graciously. There’s no record that I was able to read of his complaining about the poor deal he got from life. 10 He moved to southern California for his health and he died there in 1914. His death certificate gives the name of the disease that he died of, but I can’t remember what it was. His wife, at that period of time, preferred to live in the east, it could be in the house that he was required to build to live in while he was president of the Santa Fe. She came out to visit him a few times. Paper railroad passes, similar to the silver one that I showed you, were issued—probably 50 of them—to him by other railroads, as an element of the respect that they had for him even in retirement. LR: That’s cool. Did any of his descendants work on the railroad? WS: No. Once he was out of railroading there was nobody else in the family in railroading. LR: So are you the first one then, to really get into this, of his descendants? WS: I think so. LR: That is really fascinating and I’ve learned a lot so I’m really appreciative of the time that you took to sit and talk to us about your ancestor and the history that you gave us. WS: Well you’re welcome. I’m glad to share what I could, there’s a lot of it that I didn’t get into but I hope that it’s been informational. LR: I’ve learned something today. I just love the Harvey stuff. I had never heard of that and so I think it’s cool. WS: It’s spread out in the Fred Harvey history book. 11