Oral History Program Mr. Al Aoki, Mrs. Al Aoki Interviewed by Janet Anderson 10 March 1971 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Mr. Al Aoki, Mrs. Al Aoki Interviewed by Janet Anderson 10 March 1971 Copyright © 2012 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. 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These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. 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It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Aoki, Mr. and Mrs. Al, an oral history by Janet Anderson, 10 March 1971, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Mr. Al Aoki and Mrs. Al Aoki. The interview was conducted on March 10, 1971, by Janet Anderson, in Ogden, Utah. Mr. and Mrs. Aoki discuss World War II, the bombing of Pearl Harbor, and their lives after the war. JA: At the outbreak of World War II, where were you living? AA: We were living in San Francisco. I was living with my mother, father, wife and son, who was about ten-months-old at the time of the evacuation. JA: How soon after the bombing of Pearl Harbor were you notified of your evacuation? AA: It was April 7, 1942 when we were sent to Santa Anita Relocation Center. JA: That is also centered in California? AA: Yes, it is in Los Angeles. At the time of the Pearl Harbor, we were living along the waterfront in San Francisco and those who were living along the waterfront were the first to be evacuated from San Francisco. There were quite a few others that were evacuated from other areas, but it was quite a while after we left. JA: When you went to Los Angeles, how long did you stay? AA: Until October 7, 1942. Then we were evacuated to Topaz. JA: Where is that located? AA: That is located in the southern part of Utah, a few miles northwest of Delta Utah. 1 JA: In what way were you transported to the Relocation Center? AA: It seemed like after Pearl Harbor we were given about a week or so notice. They told us we would only be able to take as much as we were able to carry. So we were not able to take too much with our child, except shoes and clothing. We were told to meet at a place on Venice Avenue where a bus was waiting for us and from there we were taken to the train station and loaded in a car with all the shades pulled down so we couldn't see where we were going and before we knew it, we were in Los Angeles at the Santa Anita Race Track. There were rumors that we were going to Manzanar, but I guess it wasn't completed yet. JA: Then you stayed there until October and then traveled by train again to Topaz? AA: Yes. JA: Did all of your family go to Topaz with you? AA: Yes. My father, mother, wife and my son and I. JA: What kind of living accommodations did you have at Topaz? AA: Topaz had regular Army barracks and partitions were put in for individual families. It had an old-fashioned big black pot belly stove, that we never see anymore, that we had to burn coal and wood. That was our heat. The restroom and bathing facilities were in another building. We just slept in the barracks. JA: How did you spend your time while you were there? AA: Well, those who wanted to work were able to do something. You could either mess around with gardens, cooking, other work like carpentry, electricioning or hoeing. 2 JA: Were you ever able to leave the Relocation Center? AA: Well, after I got into Topaz, about a week or two afterwards, I had a chance to go to Salina, Utah to top sugar beets, so I took this opportunity and left my wife and child in camp and worked outside for a while. JA: What were the security measures around Topaz? AA: Well, Topaz had high wire fences, in fact, both the Relocation Camps had the barbed wire fences, but soldiers were on the other side guarding the camps. JA: How many soldiers were there? AA: Well, I don't know exactly. I guess they were stationed every seven or eight feet apart. I guess it was about like you have seen in movies. There were quite a group of men. JA: Were you ever allowed to go into Delta shopping? AA: Well, there might have been many that were able to go, but I don't think everyone was able to leave camp. JA: To your knowledge, were any of the people physically or mentally mistreated? AA: Oh, I don't think so. JA: Did they ever interrogate you? AA: No, they didn't interrogate me at all. JA: Was there always enough for you to eat? AA: Well, there were those who were growing food as a hobby, and I am sure they were able to eat it but there was enough food furnished in the center. 3 JA: At the time you were sent to Topaz, did you have any contact with anyone in Japan that could have threatened the security of the United States? AA: No, we were not able to contact anybody. JA: Do you think this was the purpose of sending you more inland? AA: No, that wasn't the reason. I guess the reason was they were afraid of sabotage, but nothing ever happened. JA: How long were you centered in Topaz? AA: I was only there for one or two weeks, but the wife was there for about six months. JA: So Mrs. Aoki, you were only there six months? Then what happened? MA: We were given permission to leave camp and moved to Salt Lake. I have a halfsister that stayed in Topaz until they actually closed it down and made her leave. JA: Was that at the end of the war? MA: It was before the end of the war that they actually closed the camp down because they were taking the boys in for military service in the European area. There were some even serving in the Intelligence Branch at that time. JA: In what way were you released? AA: After we got through with the sugar beets in Salina, my brother-in-law, my wife's brother, was here in Salt Lake City, working at the Hotel Utah, and he got me a job at Hotel Utah. So when I got back from Salina, he came down and picked me up and I went up to Salt Lake City and worked at Hotel Utah. Then after I had 4 enough money saved, I went after my wife and child and that's when they got out. I don't know if they received any money there or not, but I believe most of us should have gotten something to help us to get started again. JA: Yes. How long were you in Salt Lake before you moved to Ogden? AA: Well, I went to NYA School in Salt Lake. My trade was always mechanical. I had had some welding training in San Francisco before the war. So I went to this NYA School and was told that if I finished the school, I would be promised a job in Chicago. So I went there for awhile until I finished. After I finished the school I went out to Chicago to look for work and was unable to find any. So I came back to Salt Lake in 1943 and got a job in Ogden. JA Is that the reason you settled in Utah? AA: That is right. But since the war wasn't over, we were not allowed to go back to San Francisco. JA: What are your attitudes now towards what happened to you? Are you angry at what happened or can you see the reason for this? AA: No, I don't think I'm angry or bitter. There is no use being angry or bitter about something that is over the bridge. It's all in the past now. I guess most of us felt hurt; in fact, my draft card read what you call an undesirable alien. That is what my draft card said. I don't see why we were undesirable aliens when we were citizens of the United States and born and raised in San Francisco. Even younger men than myself who were of draft age weren't able to enlist in the army until sometime later. 5 JA: Then do you feel that your right as an American Citizen was taken away while you were in the Relocation Camp? For example, did they ever have a national election while you were there? AA: No, not anything outside of the camp. Anything inside the camp we were part of, but I didn't know what was going on outside of the camp. JA: You didn't have access to newspapers? AA: I don't recall, but we didn't have any radios, cameras, or firearms. It was just a city by itself. JA: Do you know if all the Japanese were relocated or did the government just relocate the ones on the coast? AA: Well, I believe Hawaii had a few, didn't they? MA: No only Washington, California and Oregon. The people out here didn't have to go. They gave you a chance during a certain period to leave on your own if you lived within the military zone. My brother had a friend that he had grown up with who lived in Honeyville with the same name as ours, Aoki. He called him up and asked him if they could come out here and stay, so they put a small trailer on their Pontiac car and put in what they could and came out here. This happened before they were forced to evacuate like we were. JA: They came to Utah anyway? So it was just the people on the Pacific Coast and not the people on the Atlantic at all? 6 MA: In fact, if you were far inland enough you didn't have to leave at all. It all depended on what zones you were put into. So that mostly included Oregon, Washington and California. JA: The U.S. was also at war with the Germans and Italians. Why weren't they relocated? AA: At the time we were relocated, they said it would be Japanese, Italians, and Germans, but as far as I know, it only worked out to be the Japanese people. I don't know what happened to the Italian or the German people. MA: I think they found it to be a pretty expensive process. It was expensive, really. I didn't hear Al mention that we all ate in a mess hall. After a while we were each paid eight dollars per month, but it all depended on what you did. If you were a cook, you were paid sixteen dollars because you had to have someone cook in a mess hall. Someone had to clean up --maintenance type work and they got paid eight dollars per month. There was a period when we were in Santa Anita, when we were allowed to order from a Montgomery catalog for some clothing. That's one time I remember we were given clothing. JA: Did you know of anyone that went into Delta to shop? MA: From the camp? Oh naturally, once you got your clearance you were allowed to go into town. A lot of the people were given permission to work, for they asked for volunteers. My husband went out to Salina to top beets. You were able to go into town, weren't you, Al? 7 AA: We didn't have any guards out there. We had run of the place out there. The only place that was actually guarded was at Topaz. I think they were quite lenient in Utah. It wasn't quite as strict as in California. MA: Also, he forgot to mention that in each one of these centers we went to blocks with block leaders and we ate together. JA: How many people were at Topaz? Do you have any idea? MA: There were quite a few, probably about 10,000. Of course they allowed you to practice your own religion. At Topaz there were nearly 2,000 students in school. The teachers were evacuees also and were paid about sixteen dollars a month. Also, the adults who couldn't speak very good English were studying. Topaz also had a library where we could get books. We kept busy at Topaz, but at other centers some of the people didn't have anything to do and that's when they caused trouble. JA: That's very interesting. AA: Topaz was mostly people from San Francisco. JA: Did you know any of them? AA: Yes, we knew quite a few. Santa Anita was a relocation center for the area around Los Angeles, a lot from Long Beach, Downey and San Diego. We were kind of side-tracked. We were supposed to go to Santa Anita and stay there, but we were sent to Topaz. They called Topaz the “jewel of the desert." And that's what it is--desert. 8 MA: Also, we bathed in one place; it was sort of like living in a trailer court now. You're centralized. You have a place where you go do your washing, tend your baby, etc. In Santa Anita, I couldn't get over it; we all had to bathe together. They think all Japanese are that way, but some of us Japanese are shy. JA: I don't blame you; I wouldn't have enjoyed that too much. MA: I'd like to make one more comment. It's something I hope won’t happen to anyone else again. They are trying to repeal this law that they have about what happened to us. But I don't think they've passed it, so it might happen again, perhaps to the colored people that they want to get out of the way. JA: I can't imagine anything like this happening when everybody is supposedly equal, then they take people away like they did to you. MA: But it's easy at the time when something like that occurs. There are some people who could have hurt the United States, no matter what. People now are having strife with the colored people because they don't like each other. JA: Were people against you like that? MA: Well, I imagine people had instances where they called them names like Japs. We ran into that kind of problem. JA: But was it prevalent back when the war with Japan broke out? MA: There were instances, but we happened to be living in an Italian area, North Beach, in San Francisco and they were supposed to be at war with the United States, also. 9 AA: They say after we were evacuated then the Chinese were left there. Some people can't tell the difference between Chinese and Japanese, so a few of the Chinese took a beating. After the war when everyone went back to their homes, still it was hard on the Orientals, so some of the Japanese, second generation, changed their Japanese names to Chinese so they could get jobs. JA: But you didn't have trouble finding work? AA: No, I was here ever since I left camp and the people out here were nice to me-maybe a little hesitant, but nice. I think the thing that hurt the most was being sent from San Francisco and moved into a horse stable at Santa Anita where they kept horses and made those our living quarters. This really hurt. Maybe it was the best they could do, but it just didn't seem right. JA: Is there anything else you would like to add? MA: Of course, you're only speaking to two of us out of thousands in the camps. There were lots of instances of strife in the camps, but riots were often blown out of proportion. 10