i Oral History Program Steven R. Smith Interviewed by Christine Jouffray 9 March 2015 ii Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Steven R. Smith Interviewed by Christine Jouffray 9 March 2015 Copyright © 2015 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Weber and Davis County Communities Oral History Collection includes interviews of citizens from several different walks of life. These interviews were conducted by Stewart Library personnel, Weber State University faculty and students, and other members of the community. The histories cover various topics and chronicle the personal everyday life experiences and other recollections regarding the history of the Weber and Davis County areas. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Smith, Steven R., an oral history by Christine Jouffray, 9 March 2015, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Steven R. Smith March 9, 2015 1 Abstract: This is an oral history interview with Steven R. Smith. It was conducted March 9, 2015, by Christine Jouffray, and concerns his memories of growing up and working in the Smith & Edwards store and some of the history of the Smith & Edwards store. CJ: I thought it would be interesting if we could start with you describing this room and telling us how it came about and what it was used for. SS: Sure, when we added on to the store for the, oh, twelfth or thirteenth time, we added this upper floor. My dad bought these theatre seats from an army/air-force base somewhere in the country for very little, as surplus is. We reupholstered the seats in this turquoise vinyl. I guess that we had plenty of it. And we also painted and refreshed the sides of the seats. The walls are made from walkways at airports, kind of like jet ways. CJ: Really? SS: Yeah, the decorative trim around the upper part is left over lumber parts from another project years ago. CJ: You said that the store has been added onto twelve or thirteen times? SS: At least that. We added on as we could afford it. We paid for it as we went. CJ: What was the original store then? How big was it? SS: Well, it actually started at my dad's house in West Ogden, in 1947. The store was in his back yard and it grew from there. They moved to another location in West Ogden, and then moved out here in the fifties, almost on the Box Elder County line. 2 CJ: How old was the store when you were born? SS: It would have been at least twelve years old. My dad, he'd been running it about twelve years. CJ: How many brothers and sisters do you have? I would imagine that the store played an important part in all of your lives. SS: We all worked here. I have three sisters and two brothers; and one sister and both brothers are gone now. So my dad has outlived three of his six children. CJ: I've heard of Jim. SS: Yes, he was the president and his son is now the president. CJ: What's it like then to grow up in the Smith & Edwards environment? SS: I started working here fairly young. I was probably seven or eight years old. I would sweep the parking lots, and sweep the warehouses, things like that. I didn't really help people being so young; I would just do different projects. I would sweep the extra gravel off the parking lots and the back roads behind the store. CJ: Were you paid for it? SS: I was, probably fifty cents a day. Which added up. Back then the dollar went further. CJ: At what point did you move to where you had an active role in the store? SS: Probably when I was about twenty-two. All of us children also worked on the family ranch in Ruby Valley, Nevada. We all started very young there, too, for modest pay, but it was good for us. CJ: What is the relationship between the ranch and the store? Is there any at all, or is it just that your dad owned both? 3 SS: Mostly that my dad owned both. He and his eighty-nine year old brother own the ranch together. He'll be turning 95 this April. CJ: Your father? SS: Yes, and he's still involved here. CJ: That's impressive. I'd like you to tell us about the store. How it has evolved over the years, the changes you have seen. SS: My father and his friend Laurence Edwards were both in the military together in the Marine Corp. They saw the government wasting things. Even back then in WWII the government would, as the war was winding down, just throw the war surplus into the ocean. Not only was it bad for the environment, but it was wasting taxpayer dollars too. They are even better at wasting taxpayer dollars today! My dad and his friend Laurence Edwards, saw this waste. They called it waste, which it was, and decided that somehow they would get together and salvage some of that. When they were back from the war, they started the first part of the store in my dad's backyard in West Ogden, just over the viaduct from the train tracks. CJ: So that is the original Smith & Edwards? There is a building there that says Smith & Edwards. SS: Exactly. That's another story. CJ: Okay. SS: So that was the old Swift meat packing plant, and my dad bought that in 1970. He forgot to tell my mom, and she read about it in the newspaper the next day; that was in the spring of 1970. That became a warehouse until we added more 4 warehouse space out here. We still own that, but we don't store very many things there. Homeless people break in there and try to make their homes there. I guess it's a homeless hotel, almost, now. We rent parts of that building out. CJ: Going back to 1947 when your father was buying surplus army equipment; who was buying all of the amphibious vehicles from the army? Who is the market for this kind of equipment? SS: Farmers or ranchers are a lot of the market. And of course, some of the heavy-duty military equipment was not available. But whenever there was, they'd find a customer somewhere for it. Even at his own ranch we have army vehicles that he was able to obtain. CJ: There is always a buyer for something. SS: Usually. My brother often jokes that we should have declared war on Canada because the army surplus would have been even more available and less expensive to transport. CJ: That's great! What about the smoking cabin on the upper floor? What's the story with that? SS: That came about in the early nineties. It has a ventilation system that takes the smoke outside, so I guess it's still legal. Although, the employees who do smoke usually go outside on their lunch break. It's ventilated enough that I guess it would still meet the code; kind of like the airport smoking lounges. CJ: How did the breakup between your dad and Mr. Edwards, his partner happen? Was it a friendly parting of ways? 5 SS: For the most part it was, from what I understand; I was only one year old. My dad, decided to buy some buoys which are about six feet in circumference, and big, half inch thick metal. Big round buoys that were in navy yards or in the ocean. They were used to rope off certain areas of our navy bases or to mark hazards in the bays or harbors. There were several thousand that were available at the Freeport Center. It was an army base as well; army and navy combined. There were several thousand of these buoys that the government was getting rid of. My dad bought some and Mr. Edwards was not as keen on selling them. That was the end of things, he said I don't agree with that, and he left in 1960. He went on to pursue other things; he went panning for gold in Alaska among other adventures. The purchase of the navy buoys brought the partnership to an end, but it was amicable. Mr. Edwards just didn't see eye-to-eye on that transaction. It took several years to sell those, but they were used for lots of different things. CJ: Like what? SS: They were used for feeding livestock; Dad even used a few on his own ranch. You take a cutting torch, and cut the big sphere in half and the two halves you use as feeding troughs for livestock. You can put in hay or grains, even as a water tank. You just run a water line to it. You can also use it as an air tank or a fuel tank; you just need to retrofit it to whatever you need it to do. On his own ranch he used a couple of those buoys for fuel and air. You get a compressor next to the big sphere and outfit it and put the proper fittings and you can run the compressed air into it and have a big storage for filling up tires and things like that. 6 CJ: Your dad sounds like a real handyman. He can look at something and see all of the potential for it. SS: Right, that is what he prides himself on. To this day, even as government surplus is getting less prevalent, he still has an eye for the good pieces but it's on the computer now. They used to send out flyers. I remember growing up, his desk was cluttered with the flyers that the government would send out for helicopters, battleships, all kinds of things. His desk was always cluttered with the flyers from the government from some navy yard or army base around the country. CJ: Do you remember how much of an investment it represented to buy those big buoys? SS: Yes, it was a few thousand dollars. CJ: Did he have to buy Mr. Edwards out then? SS: Yes. He gave him a little bit to keep the name too. I don't remember it being a big settlement, he just bought his half. The agreement was to keep the name for continuity. CJ: Mr. Edwards thought that those buoys were kind of strange. What was the strangest thing you have ever seen going through here? SS: Oh, probably a box of army briefs, thousands of pairs in one big box. I think they were all size 28, so for a smaller guy. It will probably take us forever to sell those. (laughs) CJ: And you still have them? SS: Yes. CJ: When did they come in? 7 SS: Oh, probably in 1980 something. CJ: Do you ever just put everything on sale? SS: Yeah, there are times when it just needs to be cleared out. CJ: Now, the store itself, it started out army surplus. That is machinery and whatever the army is dumping. Today, it's very diverse. When were the different departments added? SS: Probably in the mid-sixties. In 1965 we started a natural component to army surplus, hardware. That was the next natural way to go. And then we added clothing and work boots, and a little bit of housewares. As things got snug we started the aforementioned adding on. The original store, in the fifties, was army barracks stacked end to end. We added a freight room and then we added what was known as the main part of the store. As I grew, I watched the store grow, one addition at a time. The army barracks were taken out as we built over the top of those. CJ: You built over the top of the army barracks. How did you do that? SS: We had the supplies, and my dad had the plans in his head; he probably sketched them out a little bit. We would add over one side and make it so the weather and the rain wouldn't get into that side, and then we would take out one of the army barracks, a little at a time, and add the next roof to the other side. They joined up pretty well. CJ: If you were to look at the building from an aerial view today, would you see the seams of the different additions? 8 SS: No, because we've added over the top of those seams. You can see it from the inside if you know what to look for. Of course I know where they are. I could go through and show people where the additions were. CJ: Tell us about some of the material that your dad uses when he builds. You were telling me that he takes apart rocket launchers. SS: Right, in the fifties when the cold war was in full swing there were some temporary missile bases around the country, in case the Russian airplanes breached the costal defenses. When those were no longer needed, the launcher bases were scrapped, and he was able to purchase those from the government, for pennies on the dollar. We made a pile out back and when each addition was added on, he would take those beams and make the next section of the store. The program was called Nike/Ajax missile defense. CJ: When he bought them, do you think he had in mind that all of those would make good rafters? SS: Yes, I think he did, he had that in mind. I'm not sure if he ever sold any to other stores or individuals. But, he stockpiled those out back somewhere. We probably put tarps over them to keep the weather off and then as he added on, he added those into the roof line. CJ: You have, outside, your rocket tower tank. What is the story behind that? SS: Well my dad was able to obtain a basic army tank. And, as I understand, it wasn't a full-fledged battle tank, but had other purposes, reconnaissance or something like that. He built a tower with engine containers, again, from government surplus. They were welded together, each are about three to four feet high and 9 then about six feet in diameter. He stacked those together and then put a dummy bomb on top as decoration. That's been in about three locations. CJ: It's been moved North to South, hasn't it? SS: Yes, as parking expanded. CJ: Okay. SS: Yes, as I mentioned earlier, from surplus we added the hardware, clothing and then also western tack was right there as an early department. Saddles and horse goods were also early departments. As we added on we expanded each department. Sporting goods was started in the late sixties as well, with guns, ammunition and archery but not so much the athletic things, more outdoor things. CJ: You probably have a world famous gun counter at this point. Did it come in later than the sporting goods or at the same time? SS: It was under the sporting goods department. Camping, hunting and fishing are really the mainstays of our sporting goods department. The department was started probably around 1967. CJ: Did you ever go on family vacations? Or was it just the store all the time? SS: We went on a few, but they did have to have a business purpose, or were a family reunion. My earliest recollection of a family vacation was the World's Fair in Seattle, when I was three. I have a distinct memory of the Space Needle, where my older brother who was fourteen years older, just wanting to be nice and friendly, lifted me to the window of the Space Needle, so I could see. But all I could see was a long ways down, and I started kicking and screaming. I hope I didn't hurt him, but that is burned into my memory. 10 CJ: Yeah. SS: I've had opportunities to go back to the Space Needle, and it brings back good memories. CJ: You feel like you are suspended in air. SS: Yeah, I had that feeling. That's a good way to put it. The Space Needle is on a pedestal more or less, and as I looked out to see the ground six hundred feet below, I had that feeling of being suspended. I started, (laughs) a tantrum. CJ: And what were some other vacations? Where else did your dad's business take you on vacation? SS: We went to Arizona, on a family reunion when I was six and ten. He was also a member of the National Cattlemen's Association, so we had the opportunity to go to Oklahoma City. And I remember feeling uncomfortable without the mountains. It was just flat for miles; it's funny what we get used to. The first eight years of my life, the mountains were what I was used to, when I didn't see them, it felt, very different. We also went to a cattle convention in Hawaii, of all places. That was exciting to go as a ten year old to Hawaii. He took that opportunity to take my married siblings as well and their spouses. It was a big, immediate family reunion. We did things while he was in meetings. CJ: Are you the youngest? SS: I'm the youngest of six. CJ: The span is fourteen years? SS: Seventeen. My oldest sister was seventeen when I was born. She lives in Colorado, in the Denver area, my next oldest brother was six years older than 11 me. There was quite a span between me and the next oldest sibling. The age differences between the first five aren't as big. CJ: You mentioned earlier that your mom learned about your dad buying the old Swift building in the newspaper. How implicated in the business was she? SS: She helped quite a bit. She worked in the office, and helped keep track of records and things. When I was in elementary and Junior High, I can remember her working out here quite a bit. Dad credits her with being the foundation of the store. She made lots of sacrifices herself to help the business get started. She was as frugal as or more frugal than he was. CJ: Really? SS: He always credits her as the founding glue. She agreed to invest any extra nickels and dimes they had, to keep things going. CJ: So when your dad came home with a thousand buoys, she was OK? SS: She got used to it. My brother called her a saint for all the things she put up with. I tend to agree. CJ: That's interesting. Can you think of other things that you'd like to tell people about the store? SS: We are a member of a buying group. The first one was in the sixties and early seventies called the National Buying Syndicate, but that didn't have a good ring to it so they've changed that name to Nations Best Sports. We left that organization and went to a buying group based in Seattle, called World Wide Distributors. It's a group of about two hundred and fifty stores. They get together 12 and buy things together to help compete against the big conglomerates, the big box stores. Also, to further help out our buying power we joined Ace Hardware in 1980. So, we are an Ace Hardware store and it's been a good partnership with both of these organizations through the years. To back up and answer your other question about my involvement, as I mentioned earlier, I was sweeping and cleaning and things like that. Then into my teenage years I helped mark things. I was still in the back, in the warehouses, putting price tags on things, helping put merchandise out, and stocking shelves. I worked, of course, on the ranch, in the summer months, once school wasn't in. CJ: Did you work while you were at Weber State University? SS: I did. After I returned from my mission in British Columbia, Canada, I went to school in the mornings and then worked out here. I was pretty much full time while I was going to school; and as I got married and started having children I finished up school. It took a little while, but I did it. CJ: Did it take you a little bit more time than traditionally? SS: Yes, working fulltime it was about twelve years, I hate to admit. I graduated the Friday before our fourth child was born on the next Monday. CJ: Good timing. A lot of academic careers are sometimes longer than people plan on. SS: Right. CJ: And today then, what do you do in the store? 13 SS: I manage the footwear department. I purchase the athletic shoes, hikers, waders, winter boots, sandals, and work boots. I also help on the floor selling those items too, after buying them and stocking them. CJ: What is it like growing up as one of the kids from Smith & Edwards? Does that have any kind of responsibility or any kind of idea attached to it? SS: Yes, fortunately a lot of people didn't put a lot of expectations on it. I was painfully shy growing up. I was probably teased a little bit sometimes about it, and that was okay, for the most part it was positive. Some people probably thought that we were more well off than we were, owning a store. We lived in a very humble home; I wore very humble clothes. I guess looking back I had saved up a pretty good savings. I could have taken that and gone and bought better clothes. But, I'm glad I didn't, because interest rates back then helped me build that savings, so it would help me later. CJ: You weren't raised that way. Both of your parents are very frugal too. SS: Yes, I mean I picked up on it too. Our house had surplus items around all the time, and things that most people would get rid of. Sometimes I find it hard to get rid of things. When parents are raised in the depression, saving isn't just a habit, it's a lifestyle. Their frugality comes from the depression. It carried over to some of the kids. CJ: Yeah, I remember reading on the website that your mother saved all of the money from the sale of your father's truck fleet before he went to the marines. SS: Yes, right. She was very careful with that and it did help, as I mentioned before, that did kind of help start the store. 14 CJ: Would you like to say anything more? SS: The store did grow out of my dad's vision, his ability to see the worth of an item, where other people couldn't. He was always the salesman's salesman; he could sell ice to an Eskimo you might say. He'd take an item and sell it to almost anybody. He'd have an idea of what they could do with it, and name off several things. That's really how things started. I remember coming out here with my mom and dad to work. One particular time I was about nine or ten and I noticed some hippies, as you would call them back then, in the late sixties, with the long hair, and kind of scraggly looking. They were going out the front door with some things. I alerted my mom and dad and mom called my brother-in-law, and they went out there and chased after the guys. One got away, down the highway; he was too fast. We recovered the merchandise out of the back seat of their car. They were filling the back seat and trunk with items and nobody saw them until I did. My dad and my brother and brother-in-law started fighting them, they ended up in an actual altercation. But, they recovered the merchandise, the police came, or the sheriff, or whoever it was who came at that time to take them away. CJ: So the police did get involved then? SS: Yes, later, the response time wasn't as quick as now days. CJ: But they got there. SS: Yes, they got there. CJ: You started to tell another story. 15 SS: Yes, there were other times too. We were more isolated, there were not as many businesses and houses out here as there are now. There were more break-in attempts so there were some dangerous situations. The criminals would always go for the guns. That was the big item, and sometimes they were armed as they were in the building. As time went on, our alarm system had to be more sophisticated, to put an end to the break-ins. Because we were so far out in the country, away from everything, sometimes the criminals were armed. My brother-in- law came close to being taken out by one of them. One night, in the middle of the night, in the store they didn't have the lights on: they were trying to find some guys who had broken in. One of the criminals had a bead on my brother-in-law. The sheriff yelled out just in time. They were able to apprehend the criminal and take him away. CJ: What year was that? Do you remember? SS: That was probably around 1975. CJ: Okay, anything else? SS: I can't think of anything else. CJ: Thank you very much. SS: Thank you.