Oral History Program Richard “Dik” Bowring Watkins Interviewed by Kandice Harris 16 August 2018 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Richard “Dik” Bowring Watkins Interviewed by Kandice Harris 16 August 2018 Copyright © 2018 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Weber State University Oral History Project began conducting interviews with key Weber State University faculty, administrators, staff and students, in Fall 2007. The program focuses primarily on obtaining a historical record of the school along with important developments since the school gained university status in 1990. The interviews explore the process of achieving university status, as well as major issues including accreditation, diversity, faculty governance, changes in leadership, curricular developments, etc. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Bowring Watkins, Richard “Dik”, an oral history by Kandice Harris, 16 August, 2018, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Richard “Dik” Bowring Watkins 16 August 2018 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Richard “Dik” Bowring Watkins, conducted on August 16, 2018, in his home in Mendon, Utah, by Kandice Harris. Richard discusses his time as a student at Weber State from 1954 to 1955 and his experiences after Weber. Tanner Flinders, the video technician, is also present during this interview. KH: The following is an oral history interview with Richard “Dik” Bowring Watkins. It is being conducted on August 16, 2018 in his home in Mendon, Utah. The interviewer is Kandice Harris. The subject of this interview is his time spent at Weber College as a student from 1954 to 1955. Also present is Tanner Flinders, our video technician. Let’s start out by telling us about your early life. Where you were born, where you grew up, that sort of thing. RW: Alright, I was born in Brigham City, Utah, on April 20, 1936. Attended Lincoln Elementary and Box Elder High School. Well, I was a senior in 1954 at Box Elder High School. Sitting in a school assembly, a performance was offered by a dance band from Weber College. I don’t know if they called themselves a stage band, dance band or a jazz band. Anyway, when the curtain opened the stage was full of musicians, all male. It wouldn’t be surprising back then. When they opened up, it just about blew me out the back door. I was overwhelmed. I was hearing live big band sounds quite different from a humble record player in my house. I was really in a state of ecstasy, especially due to a trumpet player seated on a second tier. He was playing some high notes on the trumpet that I hadn’t heard live before. 2 KH: That sounds amazing. RW: I could hear such notes from recordings but it’s much different to be able to hear live, some of those high notes. Everything was so smooth and well done by that Weber Band. I said to myself, “I’ve got to track down somebody about this band.” I don’t know how I got the trumpet player’s name, but he was my focus. I headed to Ogden and started knocking on doors and asking questions and finally found out that the trumpet player was Dave Felt, one of the freshman members of the band. I found his home. I was well received by his family. Dave and I immediately connected. We would sit at the grand piano in his home playing juicy chords from Stan Kenton band arrangements, then experimenting and exclaiming, “Oh listen to that.” We were really into it as far as those initial connections go. Then I asked him about the band. Now this Dave Felt was a wiry and fun loving kind of guy. Really a high voltage character. Very thin, always a big smile [Appendix A]. Well, I don’t know how the negotiations evolved, but I ended up having his endorsement as the next band leader at Weber. KH: Oh, well that’s great. RW: Boy that was for me. What an experience for me. I received a little scholarship from Weber. I’m thinking that by the time the high school assembly took place, I already knew that I would be going to Weber. It was a music scholarship. Anyway…where was I? Let’s go back a little bit. I described Dave Felt and how I became the band leader. Well of course there were those bandsmen that graduated. It took some key players. We also had to do some recruiting. Dave 3 and I may have gone to Ogden and Weber High schools to talk to students and music teachers. But there had to be some other negotiating going on in terms of how I would fall into the band leadership. Weber music teacher, Delmar Dickson, a fun loving fellow, kind of a jokester, seemed supportive of my involvement. My acquaintance with Delmar Dickson began in his office, it was a congenial setting and everybody got acquainted and we talked a little bit about the band and what instrument I played. “Will you be in the Weber concert/marching band?” he asked. “Of course I will”. Then he showed me a little mechanical gizmo and there was a place to blow on it and attached was a little bird. Well, Mr. Dickson handed it to me and said, “Let’s test your wind power.” Or something like that. So I took in a big tank of air and then blew with gusto. The device was full of flour! I wonder if Mr. Dixon’s family still has that device. Anyway, there was a lot of laughter in that office. I was coated with flour. KH: Did anybody else get covered in flour or was it just you? RW: No, I think the others may have known. I just got singled out. KH: What other instruments do you play? RW: Well, I played sousaphone in high school. I played a little piano, a little bit on the drums. I was in a little dance band at Box Elder High School. By then, I was pretty much on piano, which was quite helpful. I wasn’t very good, but enough to find my way with arranging and composing. KH: Did you compose a lot of music? RW: In later years, quite a bit. 4 KH: Any of it get published? RW: I’ve had some songs published by the LDS church for primary children. KH: Okay. RW: Several of those go back to the 70’s. I’ve never had a passion to publish. At Utah State, I worked with performance groups there. I did a lot of arranging for these groups. But back in my college years, after I left Weber and a short stint at BYU, I then went to California, and then finally ended up at the University of Utah. That’s where I did my graduate work and so on. Leroy Robertson was my chief mentor. I didn’t major or focus in instrumental, rather it was music theory and composition. KH: Okay. RW: Well, back to Weber College. Now, we are approaching the opening of fall quarter 1954. I took several trips to Ogden the previous summer to start pulling the group together. We had Melvin Edvalson a freshman trombonist in our group out of Ogden High School. Back to Mr. Dickson: We had to negotiate a little bit. “Oh Mr. Dickson” says Dave Felt, “This is Dik Watkins, he’s going to be the next leader of our college band.” This would be under the department of music, Mr. Dixon: “Oh thanks for letting me know.” He was very jovial. I don’t think he was a jazz guy. I had some stock dance music. “Stock” arrangements from various publishers were the usual source for band material. For example, the Les Brown band, offered simplified scores of some of his pieces, the so-called stocks manuscripts. I accumulated some of them, from my days at Box Elder high 5 school, which were added to Weber’s collection. The agreement with Weber came out this way: I would use my name of the band for dances, but it would be “The Weber College Band” for school promotions. It worked out really well and nobody said a word about it. That negotiating led to the “DW” on the old Weber music stands. They were kind of falling apart anyway. I also took art classes and in one of the classes I met a very nice fellow by the name of Paul Farber. I said, “Paul I wondering if you would do a caricature on me.” He willingly whipped out what we see in Appendix B. [Appendix B] KH: That’s a fun picture. RW: It is a fun characterization. In later years, I tracked down Paul, he was living somewhere in West Salt Lake. I said, “Paul, I love your artwork. Would you do a caricature for each of my children? I’ll pay you” He said, “I’ve bagged it. I don’t do it anymore.” KH: Well that’s too bad. RW: It is. But that is a very well done piece. I’m pictured with a baritone sax. I didn’t own one. Weber had one, for my use. Then I played either sousaphone or baritone sax in the marching band. To give you an expanded picture of this Dave Felt: Mr. Dickson was telling us the particulars about the football intermission the marching band would be a part of. It was a period of raining cats and dogs outside. KH: Oh good. 6 RW: I think this was a Friday, so we would be performing around noon on Saturday. Dave Felt said, “Mr. Dickson, I’m going to wear my duck boots if we are going to march on that field.” That he did! He came with duck boots clear up to his hips. Anyway, there’s a story about Dave that you need to have in your archives. KH: I agree. RW: Oh let’s see here… ’54, ’55. Well there’s Dave Felt [shows a newspaper clipping]. He was in the United States Navy and died of cancer. KH: Oh that’s too bad. RW: You know, Dave and I had no contact after our year together at Weber. KH: Oh that’s too bad. RW: It is. I actually feel very bad about it. Very bad. His younger sister is Liz Felt Goff. I think her husband was once mayor of Ogden or an administrator there for a period of time. Okay, now, let’s see. I think Weber also has a copy of the “Roberta” musical program in ’54 or ’55. I took these materials in and they asked: “Oh could we copy this?” “Sure, you can!” Okay, so let’s see. Oh there’s Mr. Dickson, right there. There he is [shows photo, Appendix C] down in the corner. With that extra-large baton. You can see the mischief in him, can’t you? KH: Yes, you can. Did you also work with Glen Hansen? RW: We did in the “Roberta” production. KH: Okay. 7 RW: This production came about…. Okay, this would have been about March. This would be toward the end of winter quarter, wouldn’t it? KH: I think so. RW: Okay, so March, 1, 3, 4, and 5. Winter started January, February. Okay… Well, getting into the year ‘55, I continued to have some band vacancies. Musicians come and go. I had look beyond the college student population for needed talent. Right here [pointing to photo, Appendix D], this bass player was not a student. He lived in Brigham City. And then this gentleman also from Brigham, a trumpet player, he was not a student. But, they loved to participate in the big band experience so much that I was able to get them to drive all the way from Brigham to Ogden for practices and dance engagements. KH: Well that’s good. RW: That says something about the course of popular music shifting. We’ve now got rock-n’ roll emerging, where more and more small combos in the Ogden area are emerging. A number of commercial dives or dance places had their live bands. I suppose this sort of band transition came about as the “Dik Watkins band” was playing for the Miss Ogden Pageant. That was March 12th. So we are still into winter quarter, aren’t we? KH: I think so. RW: This was in the Miss Ogden Preliminary. Here’s my band and here we are at the White City Ballroom. That’s what it looked like [shows postcard]. It was right across the street from Ben Lomond Hotel. 8 KH: On the north side of the street? RW: It would be, if you were in the building you would be looking at the Ben Lomond north—south, excuse south. Across the street south. KH: Okay. RW: Yeah. KH: It’s a beautiful dance hall. RW: It was. It was a marvelous place. I think my band was the last big band to play in the White City. It wasn’t long after that it was torn down. The demand for big bands was waning. That’s about where I was in that period of time. A lot of the main bands were still traveling. Universities and colleges were hiring them for their proms and so forth. So yeah, there was more than a trickle of activity. But overall, we are in a transition period. So here are these guys [Appendix D] that— I mean they didn’t make any money. None of us did, but it was such a joy to play and enjoy that big band punch, you know. I’m working with Weber to identify some of these band members who we hope are still living. Oh, there I am. Yes, I’m still here! Let’s see, I’ll have to look up some of these fellows. Then, later on, I had arranged to—well, I wanted to say something else about the forming of this band. KH: Okay. 9 RW: With the help of Dave, all of the band members chosen were very good. I was telling my wife, Paula, the other day—or somebody. I guess it doesn’t matter who I was telling it. But, the—oh it slipped my mind. KH: You were talking about forming the band. RW: Yeah, the formation of the band and keeping it going and promoting it and so on. Now we are into winter quarter (1955), moving into spring quarter. We were going to some of the area high schools to play for matinee dances. That was part of the public relations deal with Mr. Dickson, you know. That was the plan. We didn’t charge any of the schools for these dances. We went to Weber High School, and Ben Lomond. I think we played at Ogden High. Then I booked an assembly at Davis High School, I’ll come back to that a little later. Later, we played a prom at Bear River High School. So we bussed the whole band up there. Anyway, as we were moving into winter quarter, there was a positive momentum with the band. We were playing pretty well. No beefs or rumbles. Well, I talked them all into getting some classy performance duds [Appendix E]. I went downtown to an Ogden clothing store on the opposite end from Beuhler- Bingham. Downtown Ogden was such a blast in ‘50’s, honestly. KH: I bet, I saw pictures. It looked like it was just moving and grooving. RW: It really was. Washington Boulevard and right down in the center of town, oh gosh. All these interesting stories. Anyway, we were all outfitted. These guys were willing to pay out of their own pocket and we would never generate enough band business to recover the cost of their coats and pants. I had white jacket, 10 my Las Vegas special. I think we were reaching an encouraging threshold. But not enough momentum to stem the tide of personnel changes and all of us trying to hang into school. I began to realize graduation would be coming in a few months and we would lose more personnel. But we did have the proms and matinee dances and some Weber College dances. Then a few more of the group went on to other things, graduation and so forth. RW: I want to say something about this Davis High School experience. KH: Okay. RW: Davis High was a great fetter for Weber. I guess it still is. You know, recruitment. We pulled a lot from Davis High. To Mr. Dickson, “Oh yeah, we are going over there to do an assembly.” Well I had picked up some additional musicians, a couple more that were not students. I was pulling a little bit from Utah State University. There was a Bob Summers who was doing graduate work at Utah State. He was a terrific trumpet player—razzle dazzle. Dave Felt continued to be our lead trumpet and very, very good, very reliable. I just loved what he was doing. So as I pulled in some of these other musicians. Some were trumpet players. Dave was always very good about it. He didn’t seem threatened. We showcased him plenty of times. “Cherry Pink and Apple Blossom” was a Dave special. That was one of the numbers we featured. It was a good dance number. Always got the group out. Okay, well back to Davis. So this Bob Summers, I said, “Bob, the Weber College dance band is doing a performance at Davis and 11 I’d sure like to feature you.” He said, “Okay.” And I had a little bit in my fund, so I helped to pay for his gas. Anyway, I wanted to feature Bob on a nice ballad that was still around. When the band performed the piece, I had Bob stand, step forward and play his version of the piece. And boy he put that up so high, he was squealing up there. It was absolutely stunning. I feel like we left those Davis High kids with a real treat. For them to hear live, a unique high range on a trumpet. It was a beautiful ballad. Well now, do you want me to zero on any places? Where do we go from here? KH: What classes did you take while you were at Weber? RW: Well, let’s see [looking through folders]. Here I am, in the black coat [shows image]. I was trying this on to see how the band boys would look in the black coat. Okay, so … Oh I think it was in the winter. ’55, ’54, here it is. I think it’s in here somewhere. Here’s a little card that I published trying to promote the band [Appendix F]. Now this “Continentals” Business, I didn’t have enough sense to contact band leader Harry James to see if I could use his band’s group name. Harry James was a national band leader—Glenn Miller and Harry James and jazz. I should have given him a call, if I knew where to find him, to see if he’d give me permission to also use “Continentals”. I was just a freshman kid from the great little town of Brigham City. KH: What made you pick “Continentals”? RW: It sounded good to me. KH: Okay. 12 RW: The implication is that, “Hey, we can get around.” KH: How many people did you have in the band? What was the largest amount and the smallest amount, do you remember? RW: Sixteen with a vocalist. KH: Okay. RW: I didn’t always have a vocalist. But yeah, about 16 with a vocalist. Well, okay. I can’t find my first quarter grades and so on. But, I’ve got them in one of these folders. I took English and gym—physical ed, and music, and art that first quarter. I was knocking off requirements including “orientation”. I don’t know how I did it, but I got a C in orientation. In the English class, H. E. D. Redford was the English teacher. KH: Okay. RW: He came out of Utah State. He was a firey guy; he really got into theatre and so on. Well, we had an assignment to write a letter to the local newspaper. So I wrote one up. I’ve got a copy of it somewhere and I was saying, “Ogden city needs to have better places for youth to dance.” I was selling my own program. Anyway, there was one rebuttal. I wish I had kept it. I can still research it and find it. Somebody from the Ogden Musician’s Union, which was quite strong in Ogden, challenged me. I was a little out of line. Anyway, that was my… I think I got a B- in English. KH: Okay. 13 RW: That was a better grade than I thought I might get, especially with this rather interesting teacher, H.E.D. Redford. But I enjoyed taking the brush lettering class. I’ve always been interested in art. But music prevailed. Well anyway, now we are into spring quarter of ’55. I spent one year and then the next summer in Ogden, affiliated with Weber. KH: Okay. RW: Along with bands and such. I had a few little part-time jobs. I really liked Ogden, I very much liked Weber. It was an absolutely wonderful… well I was treated so well I just. I waltzed into an experience of inestimable value. KH: Did you live in Ogden while you were going to Weber? RW: Yep. KH: Did you spend more time on the lower campus or on the Harrison Campus? RW: I had a part-time job at the lower campus theatre, under Mr. T. Allred. KH: Okay. RW: That kept me down there some of the time. There must have been good shuttle service. I’m fuzzy about inner campus transportation, but then, of course, buddies had cars and there were various ways to get to the lower campus. The gym, I believe was at the lower campus. The football games were at the lower campus. No they weren’t; they were at the new campus. Gym classes I think were still down at the lower campus. That’s right, because we marched on the new field. 14 KH: Did you go to the upper campus? The Upper campus opened in ’54, so did you go to the ribbon cutting or whatever it was? Did they do a program when they started at the new campus? RW: Not that I remember. KH: Okay. RW: Was the ribbon cutting and all in ’54? KH: Yes, I believe. RW: Okay, I did not realize as a student that this was the first year. Somebody probably told me and I don’t remember. But that’s interesting if in fact, it was part of the upper campus. And of course the dances we played were at the lower campus ballroom. KH: Was the ballroom in the Moench building or in the gym? Was it in a different building? RW: Well, all I can tell you is that it was a beautiful ballroom. It must have been separate from the old gym. I don’t remember a gymnasium in ’54 on the upper campus. There were four classroom buildings and the heating plant. KH: Yeah, but on the lower campus was the ballroom in the Moench building, or was it in a different building? RW: I think it was in the Moench Building. KH: Okay. 15 RW: As you look at the picture of the band, the back wall is the south wall of that building it seems to me. Come spring of ’55, I hung around Ogden. I had a few part-time jobs. I helped a little in building the Bon Marche department store, which now is something else. Or is it torn down? KH: Do you remember where it was located? RW: Yes, it was about—it was across the street west from a pet store that I loved to go to when I was a boy. That doesn’t help you. KH: It doesn’t, sorry. RW: And a lot of other little stores and it seems to me that it would have been south of the temple grounds. Somewhere in that block. KH: It might be torn down then because that’s a movie theater. TF: The arcade. RW: Anyway, here we are in the spring quarter. I received a call from an uncle in Hawaii. He was serving as president of the Hawaiian LDS Temple. His son and I are the same age. Well, his son contracted polio in Hawaii. KH: Oh no. RW: He went through quite a difficult rehabilitation. About the time that I’m at Weber, spring quarter, he’s at a point where he can get around with crutches. So the family wondered if I would consider going to school with “Cousin Johnny”. “Well sure.” Well they thought maybe BYU would be a good fit there. So I agreed to go to BYU. That would have been classified as “fall quarter”. BYU was on the 16 quarter system at the time. Well, at BYU I tried out for their main band, the “Wise Men”. They were a little too hot for me. Anyway, I didn’t make the audition. By then I had my own new baritone saxophone. I was playing fairly well. I decided to organize a band at BYU. They had the Wise Men and so on. So here’s a clipping that says something about Dik Watkins forming a band at BYU. So anyway, it was kind of the proper thing, if you’re going to play for dances at BYU, to have proof of credentials in meeting certain standards. Okay fine. So I arranged a matinee dance at BYU and then I invited this BYU faculty who was over all the entertainment groups and marching band. They both came to see what was going on, and to see if we could get their stamp of approval for additional dances. They were fairly courteous but seemed a little concerned about some of the local “reprobates” that happened to be seated as band members. Going through thousands of students to find capable musicians called for some real hustle. But I did find, mainly students, some very good ones. By the quarters end, my cousin and I were feeling that BYU wasn’t quite the right fit for us and by now my uncle Ben, had been called as the first president of the Los Angeles Temple. He said, “Why don’t you two come and live with us and go to school in California?” And that’s when I left Utah for a spell. Later, my brother had finished medical school in Salt Lake City. He wasn’t married, bought a nice home up above East High School and invited me to come and live with him. And that’s where the U of U enters in. There’s the journey. 17 KH: Okay, so back at your time at Weber, did you deal with Delmar Dickson the most from the music department? Or did you work with anybody else? Was he over the music department? RW: It was mainly with Delmar Dickson, yes, for that year. When we did the musical, I was working under another director. I think Delmar Dickson helped to kind of prep for the show rehearsing. KH: When your band would rehearse, how often would you rehearse? RW: Well I tried to get them once a week. KH: And how often do you think you preformed that year? RW: If you include matinee dances and such, ten to twelve times. KH: Okay. RW: That’s not a lot. But for a big band at that point in time we did pretty well. I could have done a lot better if I had the savvy. I remember Dr. Claire Johnson was my music theory teacher, a sweet man. That was starting to open one eye to the musical world. But going back to high school, about the time the Weber College band showed up, somebody suggested I take some piano lessons from an Ed Berry in Ogden. Ed Berry, a heavy smoker, didn’t seem concerned for his students seated in a smoke-filled room, in the basement of a huge furniture store on Washington Boulevard. He was in the lower end of the basement in a little compartment. But Ed Berry really opened my eyes to chords, how chords are formed and so forth. I was getting some good jazz theory and background. He 18 wasn’t a classical guy. He was a pop guy. He razzle-dazzled me. I was starting to want to arrange a little bit, but I didn’t have those skills developed enough by the time I fell into this opportunity. But I had enough initiative and determination to lead a band. I felt comfortable kicking off the tempos and executing cut-offs while playing with the band. I wish I would have known more so I could have arranged for the band. I hen I think it would have increased our band success. We weren’t engaged in a great many performances or dance gigs. Overall, it was a terrific experience. KH: Were you part of any student organizations like Phoenix or Excelsior or anything at the time? RW: No, I was kind of an independent guy. I lived on Pierce Avenue with several other students. There were about five or six of us from Brigham City that headed to Weber. A couple of them were football players or in basketball. We were all buddies in high school. KH: Did you go to a lot of the activities at the campus? RW: Umm…. KH: Like did you go to the football games? Did you go to the basketball games? RW: Well I wasn’t in the pep band, but I was in the marching band, so I caught some football. You know, socially I was a little backward. Really. I didn’t join any student organizations. But, I did a little dating, not a lot. I wasn’t much of a socialite. I didn’t crave being involved except with the band. Those band members, I just really bonded with every one of them. They were all so willing to 19 work with a nobody freshman. Some of the older guys, such as an Ogden fellow named Prentice Agee, a trumpet player, were very supportive. Prentice Agee was an old army band player. If you played trumpet in an army band, you had to have a lip. Well, this guy did have a lip! He was another squealer. I had him for a few gigs. He would put an edge on the band that just sent chills up and down my spine. KH: Did you like being the band leader? Did it seem like a daunting task when Dave Felt asked you to do it? RW: I would have to say I was gutsy enough to do it. I had the passion. Looking back on it I’m a little surprised that I believed that much in myself. But with Dave’s encouragement—and he’s the guy that pops his arm around your shoulder saying, “Let’s sit down and play this thing.” That’s the way he lead me into the band. And away we went. To this day, I owe enormous credit to Weber College. I’ll say this, it was a very friendly school. When we played the dances, the students were so appreciative. We were really a little bit behind the times because Rock was coming on. We didn’t have anything in our play book like that, but we had crowds that knew how to dance the standard steps. In the youth’s feet, ballroom dancing still resided. I kind of stepped into the picture and that eventually faded out of the picture. I must say that that experience, again a rare opportunity at a young age—has left me with deep memories of youthful students gathered around the band stand listening to a special number (you can see it in picture). I’m kind of ashamed of myself because of my tendency to have not circulated more across 20 the social spectrum. I was given a couple awards at the Weber awards assembly. I wasn’t even there. I’m ashamed of myself. I was just kind of an independent dude. Thanks to my Weber days experience, I had a pretty good piece of hands-on confidence when I went to BYU. I was a little more emboldened, and yeah, a little forward in terms of, “What instrument do you play? Would you like to play in my band at BYU?” In that layer under of sociality, I was trying to fulfill some of my purposes. In California, I was active in the jazz band and the concert band at the Santa Monica City College. But I didn’t stay there very long. My brother’s offering of lodging in Salt Lake City, brought deeper thinking: “I’ve been having some wonderful opportunities, but what am I going to do now?” I had heard quite a bit about composer Leroy Robertson at the University of Utah. I thought, “Well the U is a good place, I think I’ll get into composition and theory.” Dr. Robertson was an intriguing man. I really took to him. I believed in his artistic skills. He was exceptionally patient with me because I was really a country bumpkin. I’m sure I did some very strange things in his eyes. But he was, in his gentle way, starting to groom me. I did graduate and post graduate work with him until he retired. I would like to have seen the university to keep him longer. Then, while finishing up my master’s degree… KH: What year did you finish your bachelor’s? RW: ’59. KH: Okay, and when did you finish your master’s? 21 RW: ’61 or ’62. KH: Okay and both of those were at the U? RW: Yes. KH: Okay. Sorry, please continue. RW: Both at the U, under Dr. Robertson. A delegation from what was called College of Eastern Utah or Carbon College, contacted University of Utah’s Dean of Humanities—Dr. Lowell Durham, asking if he had anybody in mind to take a music position at the Price College. Dean Durham knew me and knew of my work so he recommended me, and that’s where I ended up for another three years. And that’s where I met my wife. We married and came back to the U. I was doing postgraduate work, and she was working on her undergraduate degree. We returned to the college as promised for another year. I was then hired at Utah State University. KH: What did you teach at the College of Eastern Utah? RW: Instrumental, music theory, music history, we fattened up the program. We were trying to establish a two-year music program. Again, based on my experience at Weber, taking programs off campus in the name of Weber College, I was now taking programs out in the name of Carbon College. Later, College of Eastern Utah. Again, my experience at Weber greatly benefitted future endeavors. In the summer of 1967, we moved to Mendon; I was hired to work in the area of student services. I was very fortunate with that position because my wife and I thought maybe we’d prefer to live in Northern Utah rather than the Price area, even 22 though that’s where she grew up. We wanted to move north. It worked out quite nicely. My main responsibility for many of the years at Utah State was working with student performance groups. KH: Right up your alley. RW: Yeah. Here we go again. USO show tours to Vietnam, Germany, the North East Command, and the Caribbean. KH: Did you get to travel with them? RW: I never did. KH: Well that’s too bad. RW: There were a couple of reasons: I’m kind of a homebody. So while I loved what I was doing at USU, and I appreciated a wonderful way to make a living, I liked to head home from work. We have this little farm here and lots of kids. But this is where we moved, and here we still are. But I really—as I said, I just credit Weber for that marvelous… okay I need to add one more dimension to this. Yes, I was… and we sent out a lot of high school shows, just like Davis… yeah we were in your territory. Ogden High, Ben Lomond, these assemblies. Our performance groups to various high school audiences, and our USO tours, seemed to go well. The last USO tour was to Germany. It was a vocal group called, “Mixed Company”. The leader of the group for the tour was a very talented and mature student. This group went to Germany, a very powerful group, highly successful. We used them for high school shows prior to their USO tour. This was a knock- 23 out group. A USO policy stated that at the end of the tour, if the students wanted to delay returning to the states, they could do so and the Air Force would pick up the tab. Several of the group chose to delay returning to the states. That’s the nice part. But then the sad part: Our lead singer, from Tremonton, Utah, a freshman with a marvelous soprano voice, was one that opted to stay behind. She called her parents and told them what she was planning that she would be returning a week or so later. She hung up the phone at the railroad station. As she was walking along the tracks inside the station, with her back against an oncoming train, the train had a metal arm extended outward. It knocked her down into the track where she died on impact. That was an extremely sad and tragic outcome. But there was a lot of success too in a way and these students represented our school. We needed to do something to honor her memory. She was crowned “Miss Freshman” at Utah State before the tour. I pulled together our various performance groups and asked, “How would you feel participating in a special scholarship fundraising show in memory of the deceased performer?” They were all very willing. We had Danny Cramer, a KSL Radio personality at the time, come up and MC. He did a great job. It was a great evening. We had an excellent turnout, and able to establish some funding for the scholarship. I then thought, “We’ve got do something more to extend the honor and memory. If this is going to be an annual event, we’ve got to do more than just another banquet.” That’s when I thought of the Glenn Miller orchestra. You see, we played some of those Glenn Miller orchestrations, at Weber in the 50’s. 24 I started visualizing a Glenn Miller extravaganza at USU. We would create an imaginary supper club to be called the “Sunburst Club”, and Glenn Miller and his orchestra would be invited as the guest orchestra. This would take place in the late before Glenn Miller entered the military. You’ve both heard of Glenn Miller? I just had to check. My age is running away with me. Anyway, I looked at my colleague Jan Benson, and I threw my idea out at him. We had a couple other staffed people that worked with the USU “Aggiettes” drill team and other performance groups. “What do you think about this imaginary supper club as a means of generating additional income each year towards a memorial scholarship?” They took to the idea. As I was talking to this Jan Benson about the idea as a performance package, there arose the question of a suitable impersonation of Glenn Miller. That would be a critical component to the show. As I said that, I looked at him, “Oh my gosh, there you are. You’re to impersonate Glenn Miller.” KH: Well that’s good. RW: There’s a lot that went on about this Glenn Miller fantasy. When we put the little round glasses on Jan Benson… shock! And it so happens that this Jan Benson had just returned from Vietnam, a reference to Glenn Miller’s military duty. Jan also played the trombone and had the same birthdate. When we dressed him up, glasses and all, the effect was riveting. The show was a sell-out, I think we staged it two nights then about eight months later, performed it four nights. It’s been going and going, now it’s been moved from the campus to the community. 25 It is still a popular event in Cache Valley. Still includes a banquet, dancing, and a floorshow at the “famous” Sunburst Club. The Miller band has included faculty from the USU music department along with student and community musicians. When the show first opened in a “Sunburst Club” setting at the USU student Center. We had a piano, bass, and drums providing background music during the smorgasbord fare. As the lights lowered it was time for the Glenn Miller band to enter on stage. They came in quietly in their white coats. I was at a hidden microphone. The banquet tables had been removed from the dance floor. The setting now creates a mood of excitement and anticipation: “Ladies and Gentlemen, the Sunburst Club proudly presents the Glenn Miller Orchestra.” The lights now feature The Miller band as they play “Moonlight Serenade”, the Miller theme song. “And now, America’s number one band leader, Mr. Glenn Miller.” I wish you could have seen it. KH: I wish I could have too. RW: I retired from USU in 2001. All that I’ve told you, I attribute to my fortuitous year at Weber. KH: Do you still play? RW: Not very much. KH: Did you play throughout your career? Did you help with the performances? 26 RW: Mainly at the piano grinding out parts on coaching vocalists and such. We took the Glenn Miller Package to Sun Valley several seasons. Glenn Miller and his orchestra made a film called “Sun Valley Serenade”. KH: Oh nice. RW: Yeah. We sent performance groups during the summer to Sun Valley then caroling groups during the Christmas holidays. We had a nice relationship with Sun Valley. The resort decided to hire the whole Glenn Miller Package, band and all, to perform during Christmas. They had great success with that. Years later, the university made administrative changes that the Glenn Miller era ended on campus. The Cache community took on sponsorship of the production. In a letter I sent to the Ogden Standard in 2000, I tell of my experience with Dave Felt and my Weber College experience. My last paragraph reads: “Reading Dave Felt’s obituary last year in your newspaper brought on warm memories of his place in my expansive year at Ogden and a new realization of another influence that 24 years later prompted the return of Glenn Miller and his orchestra to college crowds, including hundreds of boys back from overseas who today, with wives and grown children, show up at the Sunburst Club to again listen and dance to the music from home, Major Glenn Miller and his orchestra.” I don’t know if anyone would want to add this to my interview. It does emphasize the influence the school had on a freshman years ago, and that’s kind of the essence of my story really. KH: Are you still connected with Weber? Do you do alumni stuff? 27 RW: No, I get letters and program notices from the campus, and I do like to get to the Weber library certain research purposes. I really miss Ogden. I really liked the community and the school. There were a lot of little capers along the way that I won’t tell you about. KH: We love capers. RW: Well, I’ll tell you one. KH: Okay. RW: We were so eager to get our housing situated for the school year. The college was assisting. They sent us Brigham boys to check out an apartment at the Stromberg Home. Which was just a short walk east from the campus to one of those nice homes. Well, this was an older couple, and they had a very nice basement apartment. This was great. We checked our funds; this was right for us. So we moved in, and this I remember as the first day—no classes but freshman activities, etc. Well the word spreads, “Where are you living? Let’s check it out.” Soon we had a whole slug of kids gathered in the back lawn of this Stromberg house. Well, we weren’t thinking very responsibly. Soon the crowd left and we decided that we were going to downtown Ogden to bum around and then come back and have our supper. Such excitement and independence. Well, on the kitchen stove I had put a pan of potatoes to heat while we were gone. I forget about it. The place was smoking when we returned. We had to look for new lodging. That was a very short-lived residential experience. We were a little smarter the second time when we moved to Pierce Avenue. Not 28 smart enough, in my estimation, but smarter. Well I have to tell you a little caper about it. This is getting into student life off campus, isn’t it? But that’s all part of college. This home on Pierce Avenue was owned by an Ogden Judge, a very nice gentleman. I can’t quite picture him being a judge. He was very pleasant. The family was nice. We were in the basement of the house. We had our own entrance. The family had an interesting dog named Bruce. He was about that tall [holding hand about waist level]. This dog would allow a new comer to stroke him a little, then suddenly he would turn on you with a glaring fangs! We all learned quickly about this dog’s nature. Well, I’ve always been a dog lover, and I’ve always liked being challenged to win over a dog. So I started working on Bruce. We became very good buddies. He liked and trusted me as time progressed. Some of the boys in the apartment would come home quite late and be quite noisy. One of them, Baty Morrison would be home late, making his usual disturbance. I decided to put Bruce in his bed. You get the picture? Anyway, it was a satisfying outcome. Bruce played his part. KH: That sounds right. RW: In this picture, of the band that I’m leading, I think that second trombone player, Humphreys was student body president that year or the next year—Ray Humphreys. Then there was a Nelson Wright. I thought…he might have been the year before. Ray Humphreys was a very nice fellow. Well anyway, I better not get into any other capers. That’s probably enough. I don’t want to ruin my reputation. KH: Okay. Are there any other memories or stories you would like to share? 29 RW: Are there any other areas you would like me to touch on? KH: Were there any other teachers that were really impactful on your year at Weber? RW: There was a philosophy teacher that I thought was quite interesting. That would have been maybe the next semester. He was Jennings. KH: Jennings Olsen. RW: Jennings Olsen, yeah. He had a lot of interesting ideas. Again, I was not a good student—average. A lot of his ideas left me: “Huh? I haven’t heard that before.” And then Delmar Dickson and I mentioned Dr. Clair Johnson and Mr. Strong in the art department along with a great artist there—Everett? Very famous painter. KH: Okay. RW: I didn’t get into trouble. KH: Also very important. RW: My first quarters grade’s were sent to my parents. KH: Oh good. RW: Attention: Mr. and Mrs. Watkins. Weber today is quite a place—got a huge nursing program, haven’t you? You have had for years, one of the founding attractions, I think, for Weber’s expansion. But you were an Aggie. KH: I was. RW: [To Tanner Flinders] And you were a Wildcat? TF: Correct. 30 RW: Yeah. So what’s the hot stuff in your area? What’s exciting? Any new areas of research that’s uncovering? Any exciting photographs? KH: There are a lot of faculty collections that we’ve processed. They are in the process of naming the nursing department after Ann Dee, I believe, who started the Dee School of Nursing back in the 20’s. They are working on that. I know you were on campus last year. Do you remember the social science building? It’s on the west side of campus, kind of where the Moench Statue was? RW: I’m sorry, I don’t. It’s on the west side, north? TF: Across the street from the LDS institute. RW: Oh okay. KH: Yeah, they’re remodeling that and that should be done at the end of the year. RW: And for what purpose? KH: It was an old building that needed to be updated. RW: Oh, I see. KH: Sadly, there aren’t any of the original buildings left. They’ve torn them all down. RW: Isn’t that something. Even the Heating Plant? KH: The Heating Plant is still there. The Heating Plant and the Rock Wall are pretty much the only things that are. I mean the stadium is still there, but I feel like they’ve remodeled that enough times that it’s not the original stadium anymore. RW: Yeah, it’s expanded a little bit, hasn’t it? 31 KH: Yes. TF: Yeah, Weber is just growing. It’s getting bigger and bigger. RW: Oh absolutely and growth will continue almost explosively. I Imagine housing for students has become quite critical? Well, you’re more of a commuter school. KH: Yeah, we’re more commuter. RW: Big time. TF: Yeah, I lived off campus. KH: They do have five large dorm buildings that students can live in. Three of them are more of the dorm style and the other two buildings are more like apartment housing. They have a couple of apartment complexes close to campus. So there are places that students can live. RW: Oh yeah. But you have to provide a lot of parking and you have some pretty good bus service. Ogden is such an interesting city. I have to tell you one other little story related to my early days—my early connection with Ogden. I would have been maybe eleven years old when I started a little store out by our house in Brigham City. It was called Dik’s Fun Shop. I went up to the furniture store because they used to ship their refrigerators in thin plywood containments. Well I would go gather up those thin panels from the back of the store. That’s how I built my fun shop, along with some other wood that I found out by our barn. I started selling some candy and I had a soda pop distributor stop occasionally. He provided a nice cooling tub, an old Coca-Cola unit or something, but not 32 motorized. I would fill it half way with water and put the pop bottles in there. I then went up the street to the ice plant to get a couple of blocks of ice, and that’s how I kept the pop cold. As for candy, I came on to the name of Ira Davis, a candy distributor out of Ogden. I recognized his truck, tracked him down, and said, “I have a little store down the street there, could I buy candy from you?” He said, “Sure.” So once a week in the summer time here he came. It really inflated my ego. He’d open the back of his truck showing a dazzling assortment of candy stacked on both sides penny candy. (You kids missed the real penny candy era.) You just can’t imagine the variety. It would almost stun me each week to have those doors fly open and behold all these colored boxes of candy. Well, I would get a stack about that high every week [raises hand to about chest level]. I had lots of penny customers coming from all directions. A storeowner up the street on Main Street (I was on first west) began to recognize that his candy distributer was also delivering candy to me. I didn’t have a business license, and my store was on city property. Well, I didn’t see Mr. Davis again. KH: Oh that’s too bad. RW: I had made a tactical mistake having gone up the street to ask Mr. Davis if he was going to stop at my store. This took place inside the store on Main Street. I never saw Mr. Davis again. In my little store, I was tending to business on warm summer day when the Brigham City Police chief pulled up. He leaned on my little counter and said, “Are you selling fire crackers here?” I honestly said, “No, sir.” He got in his car and drove off. He didn’t say one word about the fact that my store was on city property and that I didn’t have a business license. I’m sure 33 he knew my dad and if my stores non-compliance came up the chief probably thought, “Oh, summer will pass and let’s just not fuss with this one.” I’m so sorry that I didn’t make the effort to track down Mr. Davis and thank him for the great boost he gave me as a store keeper. It meant so much to me that he would stop at my store and sell me penny candy. Gee wiz. I have more research to do. I’ve learned where his business was located. I look into Polk books and different phone books at the Weber library. You’ve got such a nice assortment there. I eventually found where this Ira Davis lived—his residence. I stopped there, puttered around in the neighborhood asking questions. Little luck, I need to establish contact with Mr. Davis extant family. I would like to have a picture of Mr. Davis standing by his truck. Anyway, that points to the value of history, these little things, these connections that you make in daily life. It’s thrilling when you come up with a new piece of history about your life or your family or your school. KH: It’s true. TF: We agree. RW: So you two are in the right place. KH: Yes, we are. RW: Anything else I can try to address? KH: No, I think you addressed all of my questions. RW: Have you heard of Joe McQueen? TF: Oh yeah. 34 RW: Okay, he’s quite a guy. TF: Yeah. RW: Old Joe. KH: Did you ever get to play with him? RW: Not with him. But along 25th street, on the south side, there was a basement club, a black club I guess. Not exclusively black, the name of it slips me right now. The gentleman that owned it—it wasn’t Joe—but Joe was there at different times, and maybe on a Saturday night he was there regularly playing. But another other black fellow invited college students to come down on a certain night to play jazz. I enjoyed doing that. I’d take my baritone sax and we’d go down and join in a session. I don’t remember being offered alcohol. We could get a 7up or something. KH: Okay. RW: It was just a great hangout. I played a few combo gigs on the top floor of the Ben Lomond. KH: Oh nice. RW: That was a really nice experience for me. KH: Okay, great. Thank you so much for your time. RW: Thank you for your time and interest. 35 Appendix A 36 Dave Felt Appendix B 37 Dik Watkins Appendix C 38 39 Appendix D 40 Appendix E Appendix F