Oral History Program Sam Speed and Taylor Degraffenried Interviewed by Lorrie Rands 8 July 2014 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Sam Speed Taylor Degraffenried Interviewed by Lorrie Rands 8 July 2014 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Utah Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum honors men and women whose lives exemplify the independence and resilience of the people who settled Utah, and includes artists, champions, entertainers, musicians, ranchers, writers, and those persons, past and present, who have promoted the Western way of life. Each year, the inductees are interviewed about their lives and experiences living the Western way of life. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Speed, Sam & Taylor Degraffenried, an oral history by Lorrie Rands, 8 July 2014, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. U. Grant Speed 1930 - 2011 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Sam Speed and Taylor Degraffenried. The interview was conducted on July 8, 2014, by Lorrie Rands, at the Ogden Station in the Utah Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum. Sam and Taylor talk about their father and grandfather, Grant Speed. LR: Alright, so my first question is simple, easy. When and where was your father born? SS: Oh dear, San Angelo. Date, I’m having a hard time with the date. TD: January. SS: Oh my gosh, yes, January 6. TD: I don’t know the year, I’m not going to lie to you. SS: I’m sorry I don’t know the exact year. LR: Okay so he was born in… SS: In San Angelo, Texas. Yep, to well, my papa, George, papa George, that’s what I knew him by and mama Opal. I was never allowed to call her grandma. I just had to call her mama Opal, so I don’t even know for sure what… LR: What her name was? SS: Her full name. I’d have to look in my genealogy. TD: He’s never even said anything besides mama Opal and papa George. SS: That was it. He has his older sister, Mary Joe, just passed away. George, his older brother, is still alive. TD: Rainey his younger— SS: His younger brother passed away just this last year. 2 TD: Shortly after he did. SS: After my dad died. TD: We were very close. SS: Really close, super close. Then we have Vergie, his little sister. She’s still alive and living, last I heard she was in Dallas. LR: Okay, so was he was raised on a farm or on a ranch? SS: He was raised on a ranch yeah, just a little small bungalow. Anytime it flooded you could feel the concrete squishing down into the grass. They had a bunkhouse. And they had running water obviously, but when we came up to visit as kids what I can remember is we had to have an old tank. It was an actual water tank that they would use to water, like it was basically irrigation water. That was our swimming pool. It was a big huge cinder block probably, like half the size of this room right here. Cinder block tank, it was painted white. TD: I thought it was yellow. SS: Well, kind of like a creamy white and it was probably about six maybe seven feet deep. That was irrigation water and they would use it also to help with the cattle, feed the cattle, and water the cattle. Anyway that was our swimming pool when the grandkids would come up for the reunions. We decided that we wanted a diving board so they had an old spring, it was just like a rusty old spring that was sitting out somewhere, we found. We put on the top edge of it and put a piece of wood and so that was our springboard to jump into this concrete pool of fun because it was what we did every day because that was like the only reprieve 3 because the heat was so hot. Massive bugs, crazy beetles like this big that were crawling around, locusts at night. That’s where he was born, San Angelo. LR: Okay, so he’s raised on this ranch. I’ve read that all he wanted was to be a cowboy. He wanted to be the best cowboy in the world. TD: Yes. LR: Was he? TD: Yes. SS: He was amazing. He was no joke. He would go down and spend the summers with his Uncle Boon. Uncle Boon was a pretty gnarly, kind of crusty guy. Not super friendly. TD: He always talked about how they would all drink and smoke, SS: Play cards and they were tough, they were the real deal. There was no joke, my dad— TD: He was always so absolutely proud that he never touched, he’s like, and “I never touched tobacco. I never touched alcohol. I just want to be a cowboy.” I don’t know, I liked that. I like that he was, I mean he could hang with them, but he wasn’t— SS: He was totally fine in that situation. He would go out there and he would be out there, that’s where he chose to be all summer long was at his Uncle Boon’s. Like roping, doing all that, fixing fences and he’s got stories of blisters on his hands, thorns in his sides. I mean that’s what he did. TD: He would spend a lot of nights alone too. Like if he was out herding he would, I mean, I didn’t realize that at least when I was younger. I remember him telling me 4 a lot about it and about how he would spend the night by himself out there. I think he’s like the best definition of a cowboy that I know. Along with all the things a cowboy does, I feel like he’s just a gentleman. I think that he taught me that that’s what a cowboy is too. He’s not a hick, you know he’s not like white trash or anything like that. He was the nicest most gentlemanly man. SS: Chivalrous big time. TD: Yes. LR: So he followed the code? TD: Oh absolutely. LR: The cowboy code. I’ve heard a little about it. He was that guy. TD: Absolutely. SS: Yeah, you don’t treat ladies wrong. You don’t do any of that kind of stuff. Even though that was kind of a hard life for some people and it kind of came off you know crass for other people, that’s never how he wanted to portray it. He often said, “I never wanted to be pretty. I just wanted to be a good cowboy.” He’s like, “I ain’t no drugstore cowboy. I never would be.” That in his terms when he said drugstore it didn’t mean drugs it meant that, I mean they had such small places to go shopping. You would go get your supplies you’re talking like an old drugstore, where you would have some clothes there, very few things like clothes, and some provisions or whatever. So he said that the guys that wanted to be the drugstore cowboys were not the ones that were out working the ranches. They just wore the hats and the belts and the outfits. That’s what a 5 drugstore cowboy was. Wasn’t like the real deal, they just wanted to look pretty. He didn’t mean that in any unmasculine term either. LR: No, I understand what you’re saying. SS: Does that make sense? LR: Completely. TD: He took it very seriously. LR: Did he rodeo? SS: Oh yes! LR: What were his events? SS: Saddle broncs, bareback and bull riding. LR: Really? SS: Yes. TD: He was kind of a badass. SS: Those are like the, TD: Can I say that? LR: Yeah, you can say that. SS: Kind of a badass? TD: He was a badass. SS: He was a full blown badass. TD: He wouldn’t call himself a badass. He’d put be, “Taylor don’t you say that!” SS: “Don’t say that!” LR: “Watch your language.” He would say. TD: He totally would, but then I know that— 6 SS: He would secretly— TD: Still be like— LR: That’s my granddaughter. TD: Yeah. SS: I do need to get one of those. LR: Which one? SS: The poster if you have any of those to buy. LR: The Ron and Ginger? Or that one? SS: That says Ulysses Grant Swede, right here this one. July 11, 2014 and it has my dad’s name right there on it. LR: Oh yeah, we can, I’m sure that we can get Judy or even Sue to help you with that. SS: Okay. LR: Or even get you a copy of it at any rate. SS: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. LR: Oh yeah. TD: Is this the dinner? LR: Yeah, I just realized, that’s what’s on Friday. SS: This is on Friday. Yeah, this is what I’m saying. I just want one of those for myself. TD: Are we supposed to go to that? SS: Yes, we’re invited. You and I are going, then we can bring Kevin and Lucy. LR: You should totally go. 7 SS: You’re not going to go? LR: No, anyway, moving on. Best cowboy in the world. Why did he quit being a cowboy? SS: He never did actually. LR: No? I got that impression. SS: I do have to just say one thing, if you asked him who was the best cowboy in the world he would never ever say that to you in a million years. LR: Of course not. SS: He was never, in fact if you even said that to him he’d stop that off. He never quit cowboying in the sense, that wasn’t something he would go down for. He would go on trail rides all the time. Hunting, fishing, all of that. He never stopped doing those types of things. TD: He owned horses until he passed away. SS: Owned horses until he passed away. He was doing that, he was actively living that life to the best of his ability for his age. He was at, he was passing it on to his grandkids. He would go hang out with his friends, I mean some of his two best friends was like a horse doctor, an animal doctor. I mean there was not a day that went by that he wasn’t talking about the rodeo or horseback horses or cowboying days or all that. He wasn’t actively working a farm but he had two and a half acres down there in Lindon. He had horses and cows for a while. We have goats right now, they’re not our goats. He’s never been, roping he taught you how to rope. Go to the rodeos all the time. 8 TD: We had this little fake steer and I had a little pink rope. He would take me out into the backyard and he taught me exactly how to do it. He’d hold my hands and teach me how to rope this little fake steer. He taught me how to ride horses, he took me camping with the horses. I remember this one time my horse took off this mountain and I was having a meltdown because I’m stuck on the horse. I was really little so I didn’t know what to do. I don’t know when I was that little, now I’m it probably wasn’t that big of a deal. But to me he seemed so brave because he just took off right after me. He immediately got the horse to stop, grabbed me put me on his horse. All while he’s on this horse with me now he’s taking control of the one that ran away and in like five seconds, the whole situation like deescalated and we’re back down on the trail. LR: That was cool. TD: Amazing. LR: That probably wasn’t a big deal to him. SS: No, it wasn’t. TD: No, but I remember it was like this rocky hillside so the horse was kind of slipping. So I was just freaking out and so to him it was nothing, “Psh I got this,” not even worried. He told us that he wanted to go down to the Grand Canyon and it’s down a branch off of the Grand Canyon. SS: Havasupai. TD: Havasupai, and to get down there it’s like a 10 mile hike or you can take horses and so obviously he booked the horses. So we all rode the horses down with him and that’s like one of my favorite things. It was so much fun. 9 SS: That was too, he did that the year before he passed away. We went to Havasupai. We went down in 2010 and he passed away. TD: Cowboy Artist, or like the CA had a trail ride every year and he went every single year. SS: It was like in the afternoons, I’d get home from school and he’d be like, “Come on out and let’s do some roping.” So we’d sit out there and rope. Then it passed onto my kids, if my kids were spending the weekends down at grandma and grandpa’s house they’d be jumping on the trampoline you know on a summer day, summer night I should say. So he goes out and turns the spotlight on there right next to the barn. He’ll just go out there and rope, just hang out with the kids. Like he wasn’t interacting but he was just out there doing things that he still enjoyed doing and he would never turn down a good carnival ride. TD: No. SS: Until the day he passed away. It was every carnival ride and he would yell which was one of my favorite things. When I was little I would kind of get embarrassed because we would be there on the ride with my dad. My mom never wanted to go but he’d go on all of them. So we’re on like Space Mountain you know dark in Disneyland. Have you been on that one? LR: I was really young, but it’s one I remember. SS: He was yelling at the top of his lungs, “Hot tamale, yaw mule yaw!” LR: Okay, can you repeat that only slower? SS: Hot tamale, yaw mule yaw. TD: Yeehaw! 10 LR: Yaw mule yaw. Oh my gosh. SS: And he would do like a whip. LR: I love that. I want her, the transcriptionist to be able to hear that. It was awesome. SS: Hot tamale, yaw mule yaw! TD: I never thought it was embarrassing because I was just like you’re so cool. SS: Well, no because I got over it. I realized I got over it and I just thought it was hilarious. But when I was little, because he was older, I mean he was definitely older when he had me. So there’s that weird—which I look back now and I just want to—yeah shouldn’t have worried so much. But he was an older dad, so I’m really proud of him. I think he’s pretty freaking amazing. LR: I can tell. It’s kind of fun watching you two. I realized I asked the wrong question. SS: No, sorry. LR: What I meant to ask was, why did he stop rodeoing? Obviously, being a cowboy I’m beginning to realize isn’t just rodeoing, it’s a way of life. SS: Yeah. LR: So why did he stop rodeoing? SS: He was rodeoing up until he had Peggy Sue, his oldest daughter. She, I think he started kind of getting worried because she was a pretty sick child and she passed away when she was six years old. I think there was something in there that… LR: Life changing events. SS: A little life changing event where he didn’t— TD: Well, he had gotten hurt a couple of times too. 11 SS: He’d gotten hurt a couple of times but I also think he realized that he could only do so much. He wanted to be around for his family and he saw a lot of his friends that were getting hurt to the point where they were not, they weren’t able you know. Getting like in the ribs all that kind of—there wasn’t a whole, let’s be honest, back then they weren’t really, there was not a whole lot of safety involved. You know what I mean? So there was a lot of people, I mean you could die out there, doing that. That wasn’t like a joke anymore. It wasn’t something just oh super fun, I mean he had a wife and a daughter to take care of. I think he just started kind of thinking there’s a lot of rodeo stuff I still can participate in. There wasn’t one time we missed rodeos when they came into towns. We would travel to go see rodeos. We went to the NFR (National Finals Rodeo) in Las Vegas. TD: Every year. SS: He knew everybody on the circuit. We would never usually sit in seats unless we were in Vegas. He would always take us down by the shoots. We never sat in seats. Maybe for a second or the first couple of things, but as soon as any of the bull riding the steer, any of that was going on we were down there sitting on the edge of the shoots and he was talking to everybody down there. So in his own way he was still doing the rodeos when they were in town, does that make sense? LR: Yep. SS: He just wasn’t actively in the arena. LR: Okay yeah that makes sense. 12 TD: I do remember when we would go to the rodeos we’d watch the bull riders or whatever and they all had masks on. We’d be like, “Oh my gosh why are we wearing those?” He’s like, “No, this is serious. We should have had those back when I was younger because I watched so many guys just get hurt to the point where you know they weren’t going to be able to fix that, they weren’t going to get better.” SS: Paralyzed. Faces ripped open from, like Tuff Hedeman there’s that, what is it, eight seconds I believe? That movie. Not Tuff it was Lane. Lane Frost, Tuff was his friend. Lane was the one that actually perished because he didn’t have anything on I believe. His best friend was the one that had his face completely ripped open. So that started, it started being a reality because they showed that on the movie screen. People were, that weren’t even actively going to the rodeos that didn’t really know anybody. That was something that was brought into the forefront that people were like wow. So, like I said, I think he was actively still participating in the rodeo he just wasn’t in the arena. LR: So is that when he really started looking becoming an artist or do you think he was always an artist? SS: He was always an artist. He was always doing art. In fact when my mom was doing his eulogy this is something I didn’t know. LR: Okay. SS: He was very, very private about, he never was a showboat okay? Back in the hay day he was making like over six figures a year and he was going shopping at the D.I. for his shirts because he just didn’t care. He always wore his Levi’s like his 13 wrangler’s, his boots from the regular places, his hats from the regular places. He was never a showboat. That was never part of my dad’s agenda, never not once. He could’ve cared less that meant nothing to him at all. He was very, very just like chill and casual. I was going somewhere with that right before I said that. TD: Well, so when he started sculpting and everything he didn’t want anybody to know, because he was, not embarrassed, I think kind of like the same way that we are. Unless I feel like I’ve done something really well I’m not willing to show it off. I want to know that it’s my best possible product of whatever I’m doing. So he, my grandma knew but he didn’t want anybody else to know. He would kind of do it in secret. Like hiding I don’t know. SS: This is when he had gone to BYU and he was teaching. I think it was math class or something like that. He was doing some math class. So if he had any visitors come to the house he would hurry and take all of his clay down, put it away, and actually cover it over and would not let anybody know what was going on. LR: Wow, really? SS: Yeah. I can’t remember where the first place I took one of his sculpts, when it was still clay. They had to keep the car, they were in their Volkswagen beetle and grandma had to keep fanning it. They were driving somewhere super-hot and there was no air conditioning in the beetle. They didn’t want the clay to start to melt because they wanted to see his artwork. So they were, I think my mom was in the backseat fanning it, spraying it with cold water doing whatever they could. This was like a long trek. I need to get that eulogy, I really do. Because there were some really fun stories in there. Things that I had never heard of. So I didn’t 14 know my dad hid his stuff. I thought something that was really amazing was after he had passed away, he had his studio in the house where he’d work and he would do stuff there all the time. Then he had his, not really a foundry, just underneath the barn where he would go work sometimes. I think he wanted just some quiet space and it was cool down there. The clay was cold. After he passed away a couple weeks later we went downstairs and it was like checking out inventory and seeing what was there. SS: There was this statue, but it was covered over with like a bed sheet and so we pulled back and it was my dad. LR: Wow. SS: He’d actually done a bust of himself and he didn’t tell anybody. So that was actually really cool because I think he was challenging himself, see if he could actually do a bust of himself because he was never going to bronze it. My dad never in a million years would’ve bronzed himself like, “Oh check me out.” I think he was doing it for himself just to see, “Can I do well enough work,” you know what I mean? He was challenging himself so it’s really awesome. It was so perfect that his hat, when he passed away, the one he wore everyday fit the head spot on. LR: Attention to detail. SS: He was so humble with his work. He never, like I said he was never a showboat. He didn’t mind coming and asking me or Taylor or Boon or any of the family members what they thought. “Do you think this is okay? Does this look okay?” He wasn’t, I mean he liked his family to help critique his work. Even some of the 15 names of his bronzes, he would be like, “Does this sound okay? Should I change it up a bit?” or whatever. He was so humble that way. He just was never a showboat. TD: No. If I could like just one word describe him I would obviously use cowboy but the second one would be humble. I mean if you met him for the first time you would never know that he was an artist. He wouldn’t go out of his way to tell you that. Just, I don’t know, I liked that about him. I mean everybody’s kind of met someone that they really love themselves. I feel like when you’re an artist sometimes maybe that’s just part of the territory because you know you get what you do. He just, I liked that about him a lot. I feel like he taught us all a lot about being humble. I think that that was really important. LR: So even with his, I mean he has some pretty important works that are very public. Did he have a hard time creating those public works or was it just what he did? Do you understand what I’m asking? SS: No, I don’t. TD: No, I don’t think he had a hard time because he wanted, I mean once he got to the point where I mean he’s a pretty big deal but, he was, SS: But he would so be shocked if you just said that. TD: If I said that, he would be like I am not. LR: I think you did it for him. Don’t say that. TD: He didn’t have a hard time doing that and he was always so happy. I remember when he was working on that Texas it was Texas Tech right? SS: Yes, the ranger. 16 TD: Red Rider, is that what he was called? SS: Red Rider. TD: It’s a really big piece at Texas Tech, and I remember that, and he just was so happy to do it. So excited about it. He also did what was that? Wounded buffalo the one that was like three times life-sized? SS: Yeah, he did the buffalo. TD: I remember watching him work on that. He would take me to the foundry with him a lot when I was really little and I got to go see him do that. Those pieces are the ones that I remember the most at least when I was really little. But those are probably the most public ones. SS: The one I remember was Charlie Goodnight and I was pretty young still. He was being built in the studio and my dad we had the main floor. The studio was I believe like 12 maybe 14 feet tall. It’s definitely much taller. TD: It’s like two stories. SS: Then there’s just a little small balcony for like a working area. There was a crane. He’d actually had these people come in and do these like special hooks into the house someway to help hoist this massive, I mean honestly it was probably just that big up to the top of the Ogden drum. LR: Really? SS: Charlie Goodnight, he’s massive. I remember my dad working on him. He’d go stand on the steps because that’s where he wanted, because he felt comfortable working in there. So he’d walk up the steps in his studio and work on it. He was massive, that’s the one I remember personally the most. I know he did a Buddy 17 Holly and the John Wayne and the Buddy Holly, I believe is in Lubbock somewhere. TD: He does have some that are like out on the streets down in St. George I believe. LR: Right I’ve heard of those. Those are the ones I’ve heard of and in Texas. TD: My little brother and I went down with him when they were, I think they had just barely put it in, like installed it. We went with him when they were going to I don’t know show the piece now that they had installed it. I remember asking him what we were doing. “Oh we’re just going to go, I just have to be there for this. It’s not really that big of a deal.” Then come to find out he has this like bronze in the middle of the city and he’s like, “Oh it’s nothing really, I have to be there, you know it’s not that big of a deal.” I was like that’s really awesome and he’s like, “Oh I just thought it’s nice that they asked me.” SS: Yeah, exactly. That’s what’d he do, he’s like, “I’d like to bring you guys, just thought it would be nice if you’d come down with me, keep me company.” LR: Oh wow, that’s awesome. So of all of his pieces do you have favorites? SS: I do. LR: If you don’t mind, what’s your favorite piece that he did? SS: The Half Breed. LR: The Half Breed. SS: Yeah, she’s gorgeous. It’s exactly what it is. She’s the head, she’s beautiful. TD: I remember watching him do that, and watching, SS: No, you’re thinking of another one. The Half Breed is the one that you weren’t even, I was little when that was done. My mom actually has— 18 TD: Oh never mind, I’m thinking of woman with the hat. SS: You’re thinking of woman with the hat, yeah, that was with Laney Garrett. You remember that one? TD: Laney modeled for that and he had me model for that. SS: But the half breed my mom sat for that and at the time you know she’s got gorgeous high cheek bones. We have a little Native American on both sides of the family. So she’s got pretty gorgeous cheekbones and she had these beautiful hoop earrings in. He would have her turn sideways and I’d come downstairs in the basement. In the basement, he’d also work down there too. Not out under the barn, this was just at the house in the laundry room. I remember him that was his model, his muse or whatever you want to call it for that piece. She’s gorgeous, she’s absolutely beautiful. She’s like, it’s breathtaking. It brings little tears to my eyes. Then Lucy the youngest, my youngest her favorite piece was the picnic. No that was you, yours is the picnic. TD: Mine’s The Picnic. Lucy really likes that one too though. LR: Why The Picnic? TD: It’s one of his very first pieces. I’m sure that it’s not, I don’t know, SS: They did that one in the basement too. TD: A collectible or anything, but I like it because it’s one of his first pieces. I remember him talking a little bit about it and I had actually never been able to see it because I didn’t think that we had any and he didn’t think that we had any. Then when he passed away I was sort of having a meltdown because I wanted that. I wanted my own. So I was like crying and my mom went down in that 19 basement in the wax room. She’s like, “I bet there’s one down there, there’s got to be. There’s so many crates.” Come to find out there are like four so we were all able to have one of those. But my second favorite is definitely the, what is that one called that Laney modeled for? SS: She’s got the hat on and the earrings. I’m terrible with the names. We’d have to look it up. TD: Well it’s a bust. SS: The Boss is a Lady? TD: Is that it? That might be it. SS: I think it is. It’s The Boss is the Lady. TD: So it’s a bust of another woman and she has a little ponytail and she has a cowboy hat on. She’s got these earrings, I love the earrings. I remember watching Laney model for that which is a cousin. Would that be what she is? SS: Yes. TD: Yeah, and then I got to model for that for a little bit. I felt like so cool. I was, “Really you want me to model for you? That would be so much fun.” Come to find out I had to sit there and sit still and it was a lot harder than I thought when I was that young. I loved watching him work. I would, like I would draw a lot and he would come critique it and I loved that because he was so sweet about it. I would sit in there and draw with him or just do my homework in the studio just to watch him work on that. It was, that was I remember a lot. I don’t know just watching him was really, really fun. LR: Do you think he ever regretted giving up teaching to be an artist? 20 SS: No. TD: Not at all. LR: I’m getting that. SS: Not even kind of. I think that was to facilitate. I think he thought, he wanted to have— TD: He would’ve kept doing that— SS: If it wouldn’t have panned out. TD: His main priority was to take care of the family, but I think as soon as he found out that he could actually make money doing something that he really enjoyed he wanted to continue being an artist. LR: Good for him. TD: I mean he would never tell you that he hated teaching, but I always got the feeling that it was not his favorite. LR: Fair enough. TD: But I’m sure he was a really good teacher because the way that he would even talk to me when I would draw or he would teach me about things like that he was very sweet about it. I don’t know, just the way that he went about it. He was very easy to understand and he was very thoughtful. He really tried to learn about how you learn. I think he probably was really good at it, but art definitely suited him better. SS: He was good because there was quite a few students that he ran into from time to time in completely weird, random places. They’d be, “Hey that’s Grant Speed.” He’d like, “Oh hey how are you, Oh yes I remember you.” “Oh yeah I remember 21 being in your class,” or “I remember looking up to you.” Tons of guys especially at the rodeo would be, you know they said how awesome they were I mean how awesome they thought my dad was just because he was so humble. I guess that’s the perfect word to describe him. He never wanted to be in the spotlight. It just happened that he was. So when that was the case then he was as humble as possible. But I mean no, he never would’ve gone, he never would have taught. He probably would’ve found something else. As far as I know when I was born, the house got built in ‘73 and that’s the year I was born, he never had to have a full time job outside of doing art. So that’s what took care of the family. That’s what he chose to do. He loved it so much that he made sure we all went on trips, family trips together. We’d be at Disneyland and he got himself a motor home. So he’d be at Disneyland and he’d come in and do a bunch of rides with us. Then he’s like, “I’m going to go out and do some art and I’ll see you guys in a little bit.” So he’d take time out from the trip and go out and do some art. So he felt like he was still getting his work in because that was important to him and he might’ve had a deadline and then he’d come in and then he’d finish the day with us. That’s kind of how it was, it was traded off. He usually would do it around lunchtime when he’d go out there and do a few hours. He was very much doing that, very supportive. TD: Family was definitely his first priority. He would tell anybody that. SS: Little small sacrifices obviously had to be made here and there but that wasn’t, as far as family that was not a sacrifice that he wanted to make. 22 TD: Every time he had any sort of show everybody in the family was invited, he was willing to pay for it. He just wanted us all to come. He wanted us to be there. I don’t remember as much as I wish I did but it was really special to be able to go with him, to go see the… LR: So he did a couple of stints in the Air Force. Did that have any influence on his work or was that just something he did? TD: I wouldn’t say that influenced his work. LR: So it was just something he did? SS: I honestly think that he was brought up very, they didn’t have a lot. Really did not have hardly anything at all. I think that’s one of the reasons he liked to go cowboying in the summertime is because it kept him busy and probably out of doing some random job that he, during the summertime, that he didn’t want to do. He was doing something he enjoyed doing and getting probably just like food and board for it. I think that was kind of a way to maybe get out of San Angelo, not that he didn’t like it. I think he saw that as a way to, one of the only ways to kind of get up and out of there. You know what I mean because there wasn’t a lot of money to be made in that area. I haven’t been back there, Lucy’s 13, I haven’t been back there for over 12 years through that area, it’s pretty destitute still. LR: Okay, so what brought him to Utah? SS: BYU. LR: That’s right he did, he managed to get into BYU and he never left Utah? SS: No. LR: He just stayed? 23 SS: Well, he met my mom. TD: Yeah. LR: That might have something to do with it. TD: I think something really important about the Air Force though is he was very proud that he did that. He was very proud to represent his country. He always said even when he got older and when I was younger I totally didn’t understand the draft and so it terrified me. I was like, “If anything ever happens are you going to get taken away?” He’s like, “Well honey it’s not going to happen but if it did I would gladly go at any age because I’m so happy to represent my country.” He talked about that all the time. SS: Also that is something he did love though too. He actually did enjoy the Air Force. He was an airplane mechanic and so that’s something he had a huge love for flight too as well. In fact he was trying to get some hours in so I don’t know how far, how close he got to getting his pilot’s license but that kind of petered off. Like my son even, he got him interested in wanting to fly so aviation’s always been, my dad loves that. Loves, loves aviation too as well. TD: This might be one of those stories that’s kind of off topic, but he, ugh this is going to make me cry. We would go on family vacations all the time. We’re all Disney nerds and so there is this ride down there where they have these I don’t know if you’ve ever been down there it’s called Soaring over California and it’s so, like you get on a hang glider and it’s really great. SS: It’s a simulated ride. 24 TD: While you’re waiting in linek, it’s almost like a little museum and they have these different pictures of all these different aircrafts that maybe were, I don’t even know test sort of planes. He knew everything about every single one of them, all these photos. Tons and tons of photos and he would tell me about all of them while we sat there in line and it just made it so much more fun for me. Every time we go now I’m like I can’t even look because I’m just going to cry. He, I don’t know, he knew so much. It wasn’t someone that was, “I know everything.” Honestly, he was so knowledgeable about it. Like he could’ve schooled anybody. It was crazy. SS: He was a huge history nerd, big time as far as that goes. He would always be watching the history channel and the military channel. I mean he was really into that. He’s back there sculpting and doing what he loved best too but also watching the things that he loved on the television. I’m going to throw in Looney Tunes. TD: Yes. SS: He was a huge fan of Wiley Coyote. LR: Really? SS: Big, oh massive. I mean it didn’t matter how many times he watched the Looney Tunes especially like Wiley Coyote and the roadrunner, you would hear him back there just busting up laughing. You’d hear laughter coming from back there, he was like a little kid when he watched it. TD: You could guarantee that for Christmas he was going to get a history book from every single person and then like one Looney Tunes item. 25 LR: Wow. I want to know more about this individual that was your father. I’m jealous almost. SS: He’s pretty darn cool. Got to say I think I had the best dad in whole entire world, no joke. TD: No you, he’s my dad too. I mean he absolutely was my dad and he was a great one. SS: Very, he had his own mindset for himself. He was very open and loving and caring to the entire world too as well. Very nonjudgmental you know. TD: He could absolutely forgive anyone too. There are a lot of things that happened, just personal things in our family that I feel most people couldn’t forgive. You know these people for the things that they did and he was the first person to be like, “You know maybe you should try and see it from their point of view. Maybe you should you know everybody makes mistakes and you just have to remember that.” SS: He would never shame anyone I guess you should say. There’s plenty of times he could’ve come down and been extremely disappointed in somebody, not necessarily, let’s not say biological family let’s say parts of other side that’s not biologically. I don’t know how else to describe it. TD: Through marriage. SS: Through marriage. LR: Yes, I understood what you were saying. SS: Where he could’ve been extremely disappointed in the person and he never did. He was very, very, he had the way that he treated people. Even if he didn’t, he 26 never led on that he didn’t necessarily like or appreciate you. He was very, very kind and respectful. TD: Even when he was wronged even when someone had done something to him he was the first person to let it go. LR: So let me ask you this, with this whole thing with the induction. Would he be forthcoming in letting people just say, “Here are some examples of my work.” It sounds to me like he would be more, “Really? I have to show you?” SS: No, he would be happy but he would be doing it with giggles. He laughed a lot and giggles. TD: I would say, I wouldn’t say he was shy about it I mean at first he’s definitely shy… SS: He’s not shy about his work. TD: I don’t know maybe like in the company of other artists or people that he felt comfortable around. SS: Then he’d be like, “Oh you really want me to be inducted? Well hey thanks that sounds nice. Sure, what would you like me to give you?” TD: He, instead of him picking what he would show you, he would ask you. SS: Yeah, he would, he would tell you to come down. He’d like, “Why don’t you tell me some examples of something you want me to show?” TD: Honestly, if he would’ve asked our little, if he would’ve asked me when I was younger, because I remember him asking me. “Well what do you like? What are your favorite things?” If I would’ve said like this dinky little teeny bronze that, you know not a collector’s item not worth very much. I was like, “I really want to take that,” he would have. He would have just to make me happy. 27 LR: Right. TD: Well, are you going to come with me then T? SS: Yes. TD: You want me to show that one off? LR: This might be a little harder question to answer but what do you think his legacy is? Because it sounds to me like there’s a lot. Could you narrow it down? SS: If he wanted to pass anything on, I think to be extremely humble, to live in the moment and be extremely happy. To treat your family with love and respect and family definitely comes first. Go out there and be the most badass cowboy you can be whoever it is. Even if you’re badass coffee shop chick. You know what I mean? Just go out and live everyday as much as possible. TD: Also, like don’t hold back. I think he was very, very true to himself. He definitely, even though he may not have liked some of the things that I choose to do he I don’t know... SS: Oh Taylor! TD: I think in a way he would still be like just a little teeny bit proud that I did what I wanted to do you know?. SS: Oh no, not even a teeny. No, you’re going to get a teeny bit of crap but he’s going to be, you’re going to get like five percent crap and 95 percent happy. Especially if he saw that he’d be oh Taylor oh gosh! TD: He told me specifically not to do this so I waited until after he passed away. SS: He would secretly like it. I don’t care what you say. 28 TD: Oh he would secretly like it, he just wouldn’t ever admit it and just be, “I can’t believe you did that.” SS: And then he’d walk away. LR: What do you think he would want those artists coming up now, what do you think he would want them to learn? SS: Humility, like full blown humility. So many people come into this and they’re thinking they’re so bad A and look at me look what I can do. I think that’s just something that is so off putting to a lot of people. I think he would have a hard time saying that. He’d probably word it in a different form, but to be grateful. You know if you get the opportunity to do this especially in this time now, this is a huge, that’s a huge leap of faith for yourself. If you can even get your foot in the door and start you need to be very humble about that. Take what you can get when you can get it when you’re getting it offered in a nice way, a positive way, and grow from that, get your foot in the door. That’s what my dad always said if you can just get your foot in the door you know then grow from there. But you need to be humble and you need to slowly work up. Don’t just go, “This is mine now I can do this.” TD: He did have some local artists that would come in and talk to him about what they were working on. He I mean he would make time for any of them, even people that he didn’t personally know. He was always so willing to give, just help them either with their skills or they’d bring their pieces over. He’d sit over there and go help them and work on it. I think also he did ask everybody, “What are your thoughts? What do you think about this piece?” I think that would be 29 something that he would tell them as well. Is to not necessarily take constructive criticism, but I think that it’s important for you to ask others in your community and see like what and maybe not community. SS: I think that’s part of being humble instead of just assuming. You’re able to ask grandkids and your kids, you’re not just asking like artists that are doing the same thing and can grow from that. Nobody was beneath him, he was never too proud to ask anybody for advice or help or any of that kind of stuff. There was a time when I was extremely angry. We had a family member who my dad helped tutor and mentor because that’s what he wanted to do, the same thing as my dad did. I went up to, I was just randomly going to a home show up in Park City. I see this piece back there and I was with my mom. “These houses are multimillion dollar homes, Park City, you’re going to have artwork all over the place. I looked at it and just from afar because it was in front of the window and the sun was shining in so I couldn’t actually see the piece very well. I could see that it was a bronze and I could see the base. I started walking over to it and I said, “That’s not papa’s piece.” I looked at it and I’m like, “Oh my gosh,” the base was ripped off. His little small bronze tag that had the name on it he’d ripped off. You could just tell it was something my dad, almost a replica of something my dad had done. I don’t even want to be in here. I was so angry. I went home and I was so mad and my dad just looked at me and he’s just like, “There’s no reason to get mad, he’s going to do his own, calm down Sam.” I think he knew that his work stood well enough for itself. That he’d been out there long enough to know that there are people that are going to copy your work. That 30 there are, that’s basically what work is, different types of copying people or whatever. I think he knew well enough to know at that time that his work stood along for what it was and that if he saw somebody coming up that there was no way that he was going to go say anything to that family member. There was no way he was going to even bother with it. That just wasn’t who he was. TD: And if that family member would’ve still come back to him and said, “Hey Grant, I really need some help with this.” SS: Oh sure. TD: He still would’ve helped. SS: We were all just [chaotic]. LR: And he was chill, calm down. SS: Oh completely. TD: He was all, “You guys need to relax, people are going to do what they’re going to do and there’s nothing that you can do about it. You just need to take care of yourself.” So I liked that he was, he never got mad over anything like that. There were a lot of people that asked him for help. I mean it’s one thing to get inspiration from someone but it’s another thing to blatantly rip someone off. That just never bothered him and sometimes it would frustrate me. I was like, “You know you need to stand up for yourself a little bit and maybe offer less help.” He’s like, “I’m not going to do that. I want to help everybody.” SS: Everybody needs a little help from time to time, Sam. LR: Is there anything else you’d like to add I mean I’ve kind of exhausted my questions. 31 TD: I feel like we’re just going on like rants. I hope all of your interviews have been like this. LR: This has been fantastic. That’s all I can say. SS: He was the best, like the coolest grandpa in the entire world. I can’t even tell you if we weren’t even talking about art and just him as a person and him as a grandpa. I could’ve never asked for anyone better. Like not even kind of. There’s nothing that my dad, he exceeded expectations as far as being a grandpa. When we was building up his art there was some times he couldn’t always be with me when I was doing certain things because he was either gone to do some shows or things like that. When I was younger it hurt my feelings, but now I look back and realize that was his job. Just because he was working at the house didn’t mean that it didn’t take him away from time to time, because he did travel quite a bit. As far as the grandpa thing goes he exceeded expectations beyond and above. I don’t even think a dad, TD: We don’t even call him grandpa. We call him papa. SS: Because you couldn’t say grandpa. That’s where papa started. TD: Oh really? Well papa he was definitely not just a grandpa. He was my dad. I spent so much time with him. SS: By his choice too. TD: Oh absolutely. He tried to spend as much time with us as he possibly could. There were times when he would be working on his art and if I needed him to do anything he was the first person to help me. Like I had programs in school you know just like every kid does and he was the first person to get to the program 32 hours early because he wanted to save a spot for everybody. Once that spot was saved and the rest of the family he’d go stand in the back. SS: He’d go stand in the back because he didn’t like to sit down. TD: He just wanted to make sure that the whole family had a space and that they were all going to be able to see me. SS: That’s what he always did. TD: He drove this old Ford and he loved the Ford. SS: The blue truck, the high boy. TD: Yeah, the blue truck. It was pretty old and it still looked pretty nice from the outside but when you got inside there was actually a hole in the floor. So when I would, he picked me up almost every day from grade school I guess. I went to a private school and they would walk you out to the car and let you get in. It was so funny because the teachers that would help me get in the car knew that there was this hole in the floor. SS: He just got particle board and put it over it eventually. TD: Eventually, but they would be okay just don’t mind the hole, just don’t step in there. SS: It wasn’t that my dad was a cheapskate. He liked the truck, the truck ran. We’ll just work around it. LR: Right, why get rid of it. SS: Exactly. TD: Yeah, he loved it. SS: It wasn’t like cheapskate kind of a thing at all. 33 TD: It was so fun when he would come pick me up. It was fun because everybody else was at work so I got like these two or three hours every day with him. Which I look back on now and I was pretty young but I wish that I would’ve tried harder to spend more quality time with him. To him any time with me was you know great but I don’t know. I remember in his studio he had that little balcony and so I would go do my homework and hang out up there. While he was working on his pieces I would do dorky little kid stuff. I remember I would always put these little envelopes on strings and drop them down so they were like hanging in front of him. I’d be like the mail’s here. He would not even hesitate just get up from what he was doing just to play along with me and do whatever I was doing. He never, he always had time for me, always. SS: Yeah, the same with Lucy too. The one story that I really—my sister, like I said she passed away when she was six so I wasn’t even in the picture so. I just remember my dad telling me one time we’d go up to Ripples up there in Provo. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the area. It’s just like a little old drive inn. LR: Okay. SS: Like old fashioned, you drive your car up to it you walk up and order. LR: Right. SS: Okay, so like an old fashioned drive inn. He got some type of a milkshake and Peggy Sue asked if she could have a drink of it and he’s like sure. I mean it didn’t matter what it was. He could’ve had two bites left and you asked to have it and he’d be like oh have the rest of it. It could’ve been almost full and he would, “Oh here I’ll just go get me another one.” I mean he was so chivalrous that way. So 34 anyway I guess Peggy Sue had a couple of drinks and gave it back to my dad. My dad went to go have a drink and it was like (sound effect) she had like backwashed a piece of food. TD: She’s a little teeny girl. SS: She was teeny. He still, that was one of his favorite thoughts. That was something he told me when I was little like he shared. When he was super sick that’s something he did say. That he had comfort in knowing that he was going to go and see Peggy Sue. LR: So it sounds like it’s safe to say that he would consider his greatest legacy to be his family. TD: Oh absolutely. SS: Yeah, absolutely. TD: If you asked him he would not even hesitate. Everybody that we talked to at that funeral was, “You know you’re so lucky that you had Grant as your grandpa. You don’t even know how much he cared about you.” Oh here I go. LR: Sorry. TD: No, it’s fine. I tried so hard. I was like, Taylor, you’re not going to cry and I’m doing it. On Memorial Day my husband and I went to go pick wildflowers because he would do that every single year without fail for Peggy Sue, his daughter that passed away. So we went to go pick those flowers and we went over to the grave to set them there for him. While we were there this older man walked over and I was sort of crying. I was having a little meltdown. He was like, “How do you know Grant?” “Oh he’s my grandpa.” He was, “You know I didn’t know he passed way 35 until I walked over here today and I was wondering who’s this new grave was. My wife’s buried right over there.” So he sat down for a good 20 minutes and told me all these different things about my grandpa. They were in the, SS: Military. TD: Military together and he was, “I just want you to know that I’ve never met you but I know how much your grandpa cared about you. I’m sure that he knows that you’re here right now and he just loved his family to pieces.” That was probably my favorite thing that he would say is just that he loved us to pieces. SS: Yeah, he loved you to pieces that’s for sure. LR: Awesome. TD: That’s definitely the thing that we hear most when anybody recognizes any of us in town or anything. “You’re just so lucky, you don’t know how much he cared about you. That’s just all he could talk about is his cute little grandchildren.” SS: That’s pretty much, again, I got nervous talking about his art you know when you first talked to him just like cold call, cold talking. He’d be like, “This is Taylor this is my granddaughter.” That’s what he would do. That’s how he started, I think he needed to have his comfort zone. So he could roll in and then every once in a while he’d be like “What do you think my favorite piece is Taylor? Which one do you like the best?” TD: Even if he wasn’t necessarily presenting his best piece that he should probably be showing off. It would be, “Well Taylor here likes this little teeny,” I remember it was this little teeny horse and I loved it. That’s what he would’ve told you. 36 SS: We took that one up to the Utah State Fair because of you. I think River was two or three and he was on my hip and that’s the one. He had these two gorgeous heads and then like this little, the little teeny horse. TD: Not that it was bad but it was like this little teeny dinky thing. SS: No, it’s great. Then he was, “Well this is actually a good idea Taylor because then you know we’ve got different, someone might be able to afford this one before they can afford one of these so I think that’s a good idea.” TD: He, did you go to that party where I passed out? SS: No. TD: Holding his award. SS: Were you sleepy? TD: No. We went to, he was getting, I don’t remember what it was, and it was that big glass award that he got. It’s like a bowl, do you remember that? SS: Oh yeah. TD: So it was up in Salt Lake, it was at this like fancy hotel type thing. He was getting this award and as we were leaving I think it was just me and my grandpa and my grandma. I was holding this award because he was shaking hands and I don’t even know what happened. I don’t know if I was sick or something but I passed out and I’m holding this huge, I don’t even know how much, it’s pretty heavy. SS: Yeah, it was really heavy. TD: It was really heavy, it’s a really thick, big glass bowl. SS: It was crystal. 37 TD: Oh crystal whatever. I totally passed out and it fell on me. So he just basically blew everybody off and picked me up. Just was like, “We’re done, we’re done, I’m done. Sorry guys, bye.” Just took care of me and made sure that I was okay. SS: How old were you? TD: I was probably only like ten. SS: Yeah. TD: I mean obviously that was just a priority to him. SS: You were just exhausted. TD: He was just like, “Nope we’re done, and we’re going.” I was, “No it’s okay like I’m fine now, we can stay.” He’s, “No we’re going to go home, we’re going to take care of you. I’m so sorry I made you hold that.” I was, “No you didn’t, I wanted to hold it because it’s this pretty crystal bowl,” and I’m ten. I don’t know, he was just the greatest person I think I will ever know. LR: Lot of awards. He won a lot of awards. TD: He wouldn’t tell you that though. SS: No. TD: You would never know. LR: Well there’s a list on the application and when does it end? It’s a long list and yet talking to him he would never brag about it. He would just oh maybe I won this. TD: He wouldn’t even talk about winning anything. LR: Okay. TD: I think the only thing that I remember him telling me is because I asked about this big belt buckle that he had. It was in his rodeo days and so it was something that 38 he got in the rodeo. He was pretty excited about that. I don’t know, he wouldn’t have told you. SS: Unless we got invited or unless he just mentioned it in passing at breakfast, “Oh hey I’m getting an award, I’m getting honored for this and this and this. If you guys want to come up to do this.” I mean he was in the, what do they call it when they’re in the parade up there? At the Days of 47 parade. LR: Yeah, he was the Grand Marshall. SS: Yeah, he and my mom. He was the Grand Marshall. LR: Didn’t say a word. SS: Just random, and I’m like wow you know. I’m too young to really understand how actually cool that kind of stuff is. So are we running out of tape? LR: Not that I know of. TD: He one year, it’s just like a little Lindon Days thing. There’s just this little teeny baby parade that goes through town. He was, “I really want you to be in it. I just want you to ride in it. I just think that you look so pretty up there on a horse. I’m going to talk to this woman and I think we’re going to get you in the parade.” So he forgot to talk to this woman and I didn’t know that so I’m getting all ready for the parade. I didn’t find out until after he had already, we went, we got up there and he just kind of like, just okay go. He just sort of inserted me into the middle of the parade. SS: I remember that. TD: So I’m riding down the street waving and I didn’t know what was going on and then I got to the end and he’s, “Okay come on, come on let’s go.” So come to find 39 out I was not supposed to be in this parade. He was just like go, just go. He didn’t care at all. SS: I was actually just going to, I was going to try to show her that one picture of you guys just because that would probably sum up him. He’s all dirty from working in the studio and you’re sitting on his lap. Like you’re a year and half old, two. TD: He just cared so much about his family. I mean his art was very important, but he definitely would put anything on hold for us. LR: Well, I really appreciate you guys taking the time to come up here. TD: Yeah, of course. I feel like we’ve just been rambling. LR: No, you haven’t been. SS: That’s a random sleepover when we’re up in Heber House. He just missed us, he didn’t even tell us he was coming up. LR: He just came up. TD: Oh, he’d do that all the time. SS: He would come up. He’d randomly just come up and want to spend the night with us and just hang out. We’d watch videos and stuff like that. I’m just trying to find that one of Taylor because it’s so— TD: Quigley, his favorite. He would watch Quigley Down Under every single time he came up to our house. LR: Oh, that’s kind of fun. TD: Yeah, we spent every Christmas Eve with him. He’d always come up and sleep at our house and hang out with us. LR: You guys mind if I turn this off? 40 SS: Oh that’s fine.