Oral History Program Myrene Rich Brewer Lynn Miller 06 February 1971 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Myrene Rich Brewer Interviewed by Lynn Miller 06 February 1971 Copyright © 2012 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in Special Collections. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The Weber State College/University Student Projects have been created by students working with several different professors on the Weber State campus. The topics are varied and based on the student's interest or task for a specific assignment. These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Brewer, Myrene Rich, an oral history by Lynn Miller, 06 February 1971, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Myrene Rich Brewer. The interview was conducted on February 6, 1971, by Lynn Miller, in the home of Mrs. J. W. Brewer. Myrene discusses polygamy and her beliefs, and she also talks about her Grandfather, Charles Coulson Rich. LM: I'm Lynn Miller interviewing Mrs. Myrene Rich Brewer about her Grandfather, Charles Rich. This is for Dr. Sadler's Utah History Class, Winter Quarter, February 6, 1971. MB: I think it would be better to have Charles Coulson Rich because there are so many Charles Rich's that you've got to identify which one. They stress so much now getting the middle name because of the numbers that are named Rich. LM: Thank you. You are a granddaughter of Charles Coulson Rich and daughter of Dr. Edward I. Rich who was an Ogden physician. Charles Rich was a man of great accomplishments. Among which, he was an early Mormon Church leader, a General in the Nauvoo Legion. MB: Nauvoo. LM: Thank you. A San Bernardino colonizer, one of the first settlers in Salt Lake Valley and in Bear Lake Valley. He also must have had many other accomplishments, Mrs. Brewer. Can you talk to us about Charles Coulson Rich and some of his other accomplishments? MB: Well, basically, we always think of Grandfather Rich as the head of his family and as a loving father. My Father was his 47th child. And my father was only 15 years old when his father died and previously to this Grandfather had had a stroke. So he was quite ill 1 for the three previous years before he died which would make my father quite young. But, in talking about Grandfather, of course, we want to know about him as a man, a family man and as a loving father. One of the cute stories that Father had told us, one of the sweet stories, was that he was very anxious as a little boy to have a sled. And, of course, in those days in Bear Lake; my Father was born in Bear Lake. It's a land that has plenty of hard winters, lots of snow, so he wanted this sled. And, of course, it was very difficult to have sleds because life was so stark there. But, he said that his Father went to the blacksmith and had him make a sled for him. And then he had a barrel. He took the staves from around this barrel and took them to the blacksmith. He was so delighted that he would have a sled to romp and to have fun in the snow. And his Father, of course, went to all this effort so that he would have this little sled to play with. Another time, to show that my Grandfather must have been a very cautious man, my Father said that he was out for a ride with his Mother and Father and they were in the vicinity of Bear Lake and they came to a very rickety bridge. Grandfather got out. He didn't want to risk going on this bridge in case that it wouldn't hold the buggy. So he had my Grandmother and Father get out and then he took the horses over. He undid the horses and took the horses over. Then he came back and took the wagon over. Then he came and helped them over. He was a very cautious man. He didn't want to risk any accident you see. LM: Was he a big man? MB: My Father always said that in Charles Coulson Rich by John Henry Evans, that he exaggerated his size. He didn't feel, didn't remember that his Father was a giant of a 2 man. He doubted that he was 6'4", as was stated in John Henry Evan's book. He felt that he was probably about 6'1”. LM: What color hair did he have in his youth? MB: I think that he was fair, I don't really know. It seems to me like he had hazel eyes. Now, this I'm not sure of. He had a round full head and was a very imposing man. He was rather well built and filled out. He wasn't fat. He was a very well built man. LM: Now what ancestry did he come from? Was he English or Scotch? MB: He was English, and then he had some Scotch. His Mother, Nancy O’Neil was Scotch. They were Quakers. They were very religious people, and were Quakers. And, of course, there are many stories that have come down through the family about some of the escapades of some of the younger people because, of course, the Quakers frowned on dancing. And, I think, his Grandfather was told that he wasn't worthy to be a member of the Quakers because he had gone to a dance with his wife to be. They frowned on this. But they were very good Quakers. Grandfather was very deliberate. He investigated the Church for over a year before he joined. He wasn't a man that would hurry into things. He was very deliberate. I know my Father had great respect and love for his Father and that he was truly a giant among the leaders of the Church. I think that they knew that Charles Rich was dependable. His faith never wavered and whatever the Church wanted him to do, he did. LM: He certainly did. What was his trade in his early life, Mrs. Brewer? MB: As I understand it he was first a farmer because when they moved they had to clear the land. Then he was a teacher. 3 LM: What is your line of descent, Mrs. Brewer, from Charles Rich? MB: My Father was the son of the third wife, Mary Ann Phelps. He was the youngest son. Edward I. was the youngest son. He had three brothers, four brothers. And Grandmother had twins that were born in San Bernardino and the boy died. So there were really the five boys and the four girls, I guess. Let's see, Pauline, Minerva, Mary Ann and Laura. The first little girl also died. LM: Did she (Mary Phelps Rich) live in San Bernardino with Charles Coulson Rich? MB: Yes. Grandmother was very thrilled and happy to go to the warmer climate of San Bernardino. I think that these were maybe some of the happiest days in their married life. She was rather frail. She said that it was so wonderful to go down where it was warm where there were lovely trees, the fruit trees and all. She was very happy. The trip down was terrible. Grandmother, I think, fell and broke her arm on the way down. It was a very tiring, hazardous trip. And when they were called back I think she was quite sorry to come back. LM: How long was she there then? MB: I think that they were down there about four years. She loved California, she really did. Then, after they came back, I think it was just a year or two that they were called up to settle the Bear Lake Country. That was directly the opposite. It was cold. The first winter there they almost froze and they didn't have adequate living conditions. They were just in kind of a little lean-to because they hadn't had time to (build anything). And she said their black bread froze. She said that it was a miracle that they didn't all die. It was hard, very hard on Grandmother. She didn't complain because she wasn't a complainer. But 4 I'm sure she had visions of that beautiful San Bernardino Valley and wondered why they couldn't have stayed on down there. They were called back. LM: Yes, why were they called back? MB: Well, they were having problems with land jumpers down there. And then there was a feeling just as they had been in the other areas that they had settled. A feeling of jealousy and trouble- making to the pioneers, the Mormons, because they were so eager to settle and make something of their lives, stabilize the community. And then, of course, at this time too, they had the Johnson War, they called it the Utah War, where they were called back to consolidate the people in the Church. Now, you ask why they were called to Bear Lake. It was the policy of the Church because they had so many converts to make these settlements, to anchor the Church and to spread out. Also it helped them to homestead. It anchored it for the United States. So they were constantly going out and investigating to see if it would be profitable. Not profitable, but safe to colonize in this area. Well, Grandfather was asked to go up to Bear Lake to investigate it and to make his recommendations if it could be colonized for a permanent settlement. So, he went up there. Of course, Bear Lake is a beautiful lake and it's a beautiful valley. But it was very cold. The season was so short that it was hard to grow very many crops. But he recommended that it would be suitable for colonizing. So he was called, along with a number of other families, to go up to Bear Lake. They really had a rough time of it. I remember Father saying that some of the men came to him and said, "We just can't take this. It's too hard and life is too hard here. It's too hard to grow (things) and make a living". They were going to go back to Salt Lake. LM: Didn't one of his wives go back? 5 MB: Well yes; let me finish this. Grandfather said, "You can do what you want, you have your free agency. But as for me I will stay here until I am called back. The Church has asked me. I've recommended that this colony be settled here and I will stay." This shows how faithful he was to the direction of the Church. His first wife did go back to Salt Lake. I think she stayed in Bear Lake three years. But you see Grandfather was on the legislature and he had to cross over the mountains. He was one of the Twelve Apostles and he was needed in their councils. He felt that also the first wife, Sarah Dearmon Pea, was rather delicate and he felt that it would be find to have a home in Salt Lake for him to go to, for the family to come to because he had to spend quite a bit of time there. So he established a nice home in Salt Lake and his first wife lived there, which everyone felt just fine about because she was respected as the first wife. And I do think it's rather unusual that she was such a wonderful woman. They all loved her very dearly. She did so many wonderful things. I'm thinking of the fourth wife. When Grandfather was away and Sarah wrote her a letter and said that she was impressed to write to her and to find out how she was. She wanted her to come down and stay with her so she could take care of her. So the fourth wife, her name was Sarah too, had twins. And she said how thankful she was when she received this letter. She (Sarah Pea) was just like a mother to her or a big sister, you know. She was a wonderful woman. While she was in Salt Lake she would put up fruit. She loved gardens and was quite a gardener, she loved to grow things. She would send back all kinds of preserved fruit and anything that she had done to the other families in Bear Lake. Then when Grandfather would come down he would bring cheese and he would bring maybe meat and things that they had there. So, she was thinking of the other wives constantly and what she could do to make their lives 6 a little easier. And, of course, after Grandfather built them nice brick homes they were happy because it was a beautiful valley. If you've been to Bear Lake you know that it has a lot of charm and it was a wonderful place to raise children. The home was the important thing in those days. Well, now, let's see. About polygamy. Grandfather was very deliberate about his marriage as you probably read in the Charles Coulson Rich book. He wasn't in a hurry to get married. I think more than anything else, he wanted to marry a woman that was a faithful member of the Church and who had character. She was suggested to him by some missionary friends, you know. And also, they had told her they had a friend. Kind of coy. You know how you do—"Well, I know somebody who would be just a great date for you". And, of course, this courtship was almost like it was a fairy tale. After she had received this letter, you know, she said that she had turned to the Bible and turned to "Ruth" where it said that your home will be my home and your people will be my people. Then she tells about when she met him, when she went to, I guess it was Kirtland. She immediately picked him out of the crowd. She must have been a tremendous woman. She wrote this beautiful autobiography which just brings forth what a wonderful character she was and how valuable it has been in the family as the first wife to tell of her feelings of being so loyal. When it came to—he had been approached by the Prophet to take another wife. So many people have a misunderstanding of polygamy. It really was a restoration, you see. Our Church is a restoration of the Gospel as it was practiced in the early days at the time of Christ and even beyond that to Abraham. The Gospel has always been on the earth. So they made it a matter of prayer. I think it was very difficult for these men to go into polygamy 7 because life was hard. It was hard to provide for your families and to assume the responsibility of a large family, say fifty children. Think of what a struggle that was LM: He must have been a wealthy man to afford it. MB: No, he really wasn't wealthy; depending upon what you mean by wealthy. In those days, of course, a man that has to spend so much time away from his family doesn't have much time to gather wealth. He devoted his whole life in service to the Church. How, he was a good provider. How I know from Bear Lake that they took up land. They were the first there to take up land and so he took up so much land as he needed for his family. He established a grist mill, and he established a lumber—so that they could cut the lumber for their homes, and their dairy herds. He had to have something for these boys to do. He was very fair. He built these four homes just exactly alike on the corners up in Paris. They all had a common field and then fields of their own with cattle and horses. This was what kept his family going. Father said when he would go down to Salt Lake in the Fall; he would bring these wagons. He could see the wagons come into the big yard. He would call usually the oldest son of each family to come and get things for his mother's family. He would divide them up. He would bring shoes, clothing. He would bring all kinds of foodstuffs. He wouldn't bring flour because they had their own flour mill there. But he would bring everything that a family would need. Then he would divide it. He would make four piles. The second wife only had the three girls. He would divide them and say to take these home to your mother and have her do the best she can with them. LM: It must have been a tremendous management job for the women. 8 MB: Well, it was. They had to have strong women. You see these women, like my Grandmother, the Church was everything to her. It was total commitment. I think the physical side, as people are so prone to think of nowadays, didn't enter into their mind much. They felt that they wanted to have a family because they were building for eternal life. To create and have a family was your guarantee of a glorious hereafter and also here because at this time, you know, it takes manpower. It isn't like now when there's all this mechanized industry. They were mostly pastoral people. They had farms. They had to have sons. I often think in the Bible in the "Psalms" where it says that your quiver shall be full of arrows and that your sons will stand at the gate when your enemy approaches. I don't know just what it is. But I think that a man's family is his strength. Even now, you know, I know I'm very proud of my family, my sons, because I know how thankful my husband is that he has fine sons to work with him in his business. LM: How many children do you have Mrs. Brewer? MB: I have six, four boys and two girls. My husband felt this way too. He said that when he got married he wanted to—my Mother- in-law said, "Well, my Joe wouldn't have married anyone who wouldn't have had a family for him". That was what he wanted. That was what made life worthwhile. I wanted this too. I wanted to duplicate my Father's family. Because if they hadn't had seven children I wouldn't have been born. I often tell this to my son-in-law, because he's not much for a family. And I said, "Well Chris, if I hadn't had six children you wouldn't have had Mary". My last two children were so darling together. They were fairly close together and they were just so sweet and such a joy to us that I often think well this is where the payoff comes. So a family was a great strength and this was their purpose. This was part of the doctrine to build the family and 9 also to build the Church. I had Dr. Orson Whitney Young over to the College in a Sunday school class. He felt that this quality of faith was passed on through a family just as much as any other quality. He said, I think, that this was one of the reasons that the Church grew to be what it has become. Because these polygamist families had this tremendous quality of loyalty and faith to the doctrines of the Church. They passed it on. And they were really almost the backbone of the Church in getting it started because they had this tremendous faith and they accepted the Gospel under such trying circumstances and, of course, were buffeted. My Grandparents went all through the buffeting of being driven and being burned out and being in jail and you see if takes a great deal of faith not to succumb when things are falling apart. So I think that this was one of the reasons that—you can say it goes back to Adam or to Abraham and Sarah when she gave him Hagar. I often think that the trouble between the Jews and the Arabs: the Arabs were from Hagar and the Jews come from Father Abraham and Sarah. And, I think, it's the old jealousy there. You know that Sarah told Abraham that he would have to let Hagar go because she scoffed at Sarah and called her an old lady. She wasn't very nice. So Hagar and Ishmael were driven out. I often think, you project yourself back and you can see these tendencies coming down. They were driven out into the desert. And I thought, well what is the overall picture of this? Is it ever going to be resolved? Quite thrilling though isn't it. One of the joys of this large family was that the boys and the girls were welcome in all the homes. Sometimes they’d stop in to Aunt Em's. They called the other wife "aunt" and felt very close to them. With all these boys think what a wonderful time they had there and the girls too. I think too that the wives all had special traits. My Grandmother loved the finer things and she loved to read. She 10 always had a book in her hand. She was eager to learn. Father always said that when Brigham Young or any of the Authorities came that he took them to Grandmother's home because she was such a good cook and such a good housekeeper. The second wife was rather a delicate little woman, but she was a tremendous seamstress. She had, I think, the three girls. She did so much of the sewing for the family and made Grandfather's clothes. Everything in those days was handmade. They even wove the wool. This is something that I think, "Oh dear, if I had to do this". But it was the only way that they could. They had nothing else. They kept their clothes and took such good care of them. Because, think of all that work carding and weaving the wool and growing the wool right from scratch. LM: How did it become to be called Rich County? MB: When the legislature met, of course, it was a territory. They didn't become a state—Utah really comprised the territory of Deseret, part of Idaho, part of Wyoming. When they had their statehood, they had to organize and have their counties and all. Because Grandfather had been the original settler and had been head of it they honored him by naming it Rich County for the original settler. LM: Was he the governor? MB: He was the President of the Stake. It was all spiritual because they were all Mormons. There wasn't any need for anything else. He had charge of it. Now later they did have another President of the Stake because his duties as an Apostle carried him beyond this, he was called. One of the wonderful traits of Grandfather must have been his ability to get along with people, and his organizational ability. He was a man of patience and great wisdom. And even with the Indians there are so many stories that Father has told 11 about how the Indians loved him and called him their Great White Chief because he was fair but firm. I think there is a story in Charles Coulson Rich book by Evans about the Indian Chief who wanted a particular heifer or steer. He said no that he couldn't have it. The Indian Chief was determined that he was going to have this one. He said "No. You can have any other steer but you cannot have this one because it belongs to a man that needs it." Finally he gave in and backed off. "I say no and that's it". I think they realized that he was a very fair man. They used to go up to Round Valley, the north part of Bear Lake. This was their hunting ground. When they would come Grandfather would always butcher steers and take up to the Indians. Father said that the boys used to have lots of fun going up and running foot races and pony races. They had very good contact with the Indians. Sometimes this was rather frightening too, but they had an understanding, so they had no trouble. 12