Oral History Program Bob W. Colvin & Howard Stallings Interviewed by Jane Blair 16 February 1973 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Bob W. Colvin & Howard Stallings Interviewed by Jane Blair 16 February 1973 Copyright © 2012 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. 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These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. 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It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Colvin, Bob W. & Stallings, Howard, an oral history by Jane Blair, 16 February 1973, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Howard Stallings and Bob W. Colvin. The interview was conducted on February 16, 1973, by Jane Frances Blair, at North Ogden Junior High. Mr. Howard Stallings has taught Utah History for the Weber County Schools for 38 years and Mr. Bob W. Colvin is Head of the Social Studies department and a Utah history teacher for 15 years. Mr. Stallings has a BS degree in History from Utah State and Mr. Colvin has a BS degree in History and a Master’s degree in Social Studies from Utah State. Both men have an avid interest in Utah history and have spent considerable time studying Orrin Porter Rockwell, who is discussed in the interview. JB: Mr. Stallings, what can you tell us about the early life of Porter Rockwell? How did he become associated with the Mormon Church? HS: Well, Porter and Joseph (Smith) were neighbors for a period of time in Manchester, N. Y. The two families lived on neighboring farms and the two boys became close friends and the friendship was maintained throughout their lives. Porter Rockwell became the body-guard of Joseph Smith and, I think, no man was more in Joseph's confidence than Porter Rockwell. JB: Why is Porter Rockwell such a controversial figure? HS: Well, you have got to remember that these were controversial times. Throughout the early history of the church there was conflict between the Mormons and the nonMormons and if you were a Mormon everything the Gentiles did was black. If you were a non-Mormon, the Mormons were scoundrels—everything was controversial. If you 1 read the history of these early times such non-Mormon writers as Achilles—oh! There were many of them—paint Porter Rockwell as being an agent of the devil. The Mormon writers, of course, have him "lily white". Right here in our own library you can find books— I read a book not long ago by, well, it's a master's thesis by a Mr. VanAlfern, and according to the author Porter Rockwell committed no sin. And, of course, when you read the writings of Achilles or Beattle, who were the editors of the paper at Corinne; why, Porter Rockwell was a devil. The Salt Lake Tribune in an editorial at the time of Porter's death laid 100—more than 100—murders at Porter's door. So, you can see that it was controversial times and the very nature of the times made Porter Rockwell a controversial figure. BC: I think it is also associated with so much violence. This made him controversial. And yet he always remained true to the Mormon teachings and the Mormon Church. And, I think this is where a lot of people get this idea of the "saint". In his early times when Joseph Smith gave him a special blessing about his hair and said that he would never die a violent death or be hurt by other men and the only time he would ever cut that hair was again in response to the Joseph Smith family. He went out to Benicia, California and there he met Don Carlos Smith's wife who through an illness had lost all of her hair and he (Rockwell) cut his hair off at that time and at a great sacrifice to himself showed real humanity and he gave his hair as a wig for this lady. JB: Was there such an organization as "The Danites" or "The Destroying Angels"? HS: Oh, I think there is no doubt that there was such an organization. I don't know that "The Danites" or "The Destroying Angels" was the official name of this organization, but certainly there was an organization in the early days and I believe it was organized 2 shortly after the Haun's Mill massacre. A man by the name of Sampson Averd was the man who organized it and the officials of the Church denied the existence of this organization, but there is good evidence that the leaders of the Church—Joseph and Hyrum Smith and Sydney Rigdon—attended one of the first organizational meetings of this association and gave it its blessing. Now, Joseph denied knowing anything about it in 1838 when he was under oath. He said he knew nothing about it and that Dr. Averd had been excommunicated from the Church. But, it seems to me that he certainly knew about it because he had the complete confidence of Porter Rockwell and I am sure that Porter Rockwell wouldn't have joined an organization without communicating the facts to Joseph Smith. So, I am sure there was such an organization—how long it lasted, I don't know. BC: You read several references to it—of course, anti-Mormon literature. You don't find a lot in Mormon literature about it. It seems to me that as much evidence as there seems to be there had to be an organization. HS: And, it is understandable too, I think. There were— tempers were at a high pitch during this time and it seems to me that it would be the natural thing to do to form some kind of an organization. In our government—has such an organization as the C.I.A. that attempts to gather material to find out what is going on on the other side of the fence— and so, it seems only natural to me for an organization like this to develop. BC: Well, we have right-wing organizations in the Church today that are somewhat violent that aren't really sanctioned by the Church, but still exist. JB: In today's political history are you talking about? Or— 3 BC: Right, groups connected with the Birchers—maybe not directly, but indirectly who were talking about getting defenses against Negroes and others a few years ago—and actually organized with guns and everything. HS: And notice what happened here during these last political campaigns—what's that called where the Republicans broke into the Democrats headquarters— BC: The Watergate— HS: Yes, The Watergate case. A case in point. JB: Do you think Porter was responsible for the attempted murder of Governor Boggs in Missouri? HS: Well, that is kind of a loaded question, but certainly there is plenty of evidence to connect him to the attempted murder of Boggs. In the first place he was in the vicinity at the time of the murder and they connected Porter with the gun that was used. At least he had been into the gun shop. He had been into the gun shop and looked at this particular weapon and then a few days later it disappeared and a day or two after it disappeared the attempt was made on Governor Boggs life. So, it seems to me that they did have a case, why they didn't try Porter Rockwell for that crime I don't know. He was shanghaied and taken to Independence and spent nine months in prison there waiting for trial and finally a Grand Jury assembled and he was acquitted. I suppose they felt that they didn't have a strong enough case to convict him. But whether he was guilty or not— it was a question. BC: It seems the evidence there was kind of circumstantial. They didn't have anything really too solid. 4 HS: Well, Porter— JB: Do you think he was instructed to do this by Joseph Smith? HS: Well, that is another loaded question. I don't think so. Porter never denied, so far as I know, the shooting of Governor Boggs. In fact it is reported that he told Colonel Conners many years later that he did shoot Governor Boggs but as far as Joseph's telling him or sending him to do that, I don't "think that ever happened. The reason I think that is because when Porter returned to Nauvoo a few days after the attempt had been made on the life of the Governor—or the ex-Governor—Dr. Bennett was "making hay" over the affair and he accused Porter of not only shooting the ex-Governor, but of being sent by Joseph Smith to do the job. And, Porter was furious when he read the article in the newspaper. He immediately went to Dr. Bennett's office and, I believe he kicked the door down, and went in and they had an argument about it. And, Porter said, "If you ever mention again that Joseph Smith sent me to kill Boggs I will come back and we'll go at it again." The thing that I gather from that is that he did make an attempt on the ex-Governor's life, but he was furious about the fact that Joseph was accused of having sent him. Now, I don't think that Joseph needed to send him. I think the very fact that Joseph had prophesied that Boggs would die a violent death within a year was probably enough to send not only Porter but other rabid Mormons to make an assault on the ex-Governor. So, you might say that it was a command. The very fact that the Prophet prophesied the death of the ex-Governor. Then, there is another point there. Joseph—I believe it was Joseph—that said, "It wasn't Porter because if Porter had leveled down on the Governor he would have been dead". But, it wasn't Porter's aim that saved the ex-Governor's life because two of the slugs went into the Governor's 5 head and another one into his neck. You see, this gun was loaded with buckshot rather than with just one slug and the load was enough to have killed any ordinary man. But, for some reason or another, the Governor, the ex-Governor Boggs was able to weather the storm and survive the wounds. JB: Now, Governor Boggs was hated by the Mormons because he was the one who sanctioned their being chased out of Missouri, isn't this true? BC: Right. HS: Yes, Governor Boggs signed the papers, the exterminating order, which said that the Mormons would be destroyed or that they would be driven from Missouri. And then, there were many other things that led to the hatred between the Mormons and the Governor. JB: What was the Council of 50? HS: Well, the Council of 50 was the group of Mormons that set the policy for the Mormon Church. And, they were specialists— men from all walks of life were called in and they attempted—well, they did set the policy for the Mormon Church. They were the brains of the group, I suppose. BC: Wasn't it true that there were non-members sometimes in this group? HS: I don't think in the early group. I'm not sure about that. There may have been some but I would think that in this early time here one of the requirements for the Council of 50 would be that you were a Saint in good standing. JB: Well, you said it was the brains of the outfit. Porter Rockwell was an illiterate person. Why was he a member of the Council of 50? 6 HS: Well, let's not be carried away by illiteracy. Porter was a very intelligent man, I believe. It is true that he was illiterate and I don't know that he ever learned to write his name. But, certainly in his field he was an expert. I mean that he was a plainsman, that he was a tracker, he understood livestock, he knew about all kinds of animals, he was trail wise; and so, I would say that Porter Rockwell was an expert in his field and throughout all of this period they were planning an exodus, they were very early. They had thought about the Rocky Mountains as a future home for the people and so I think Porter Rockwell was indispensable to the group. JB: Was Porter responsible for the death of Alma W. Babbitt? HS: Well, I don't think so. I think this is one case where Porter Rockwell was entirely in the clear. You see, Babbitt had fallen out of favor with Brigham Young and the rest of the Church leaders. He was a swinger and he was talking too much in Washington. Apparently on his way home he was attacked by Indians and I am sure he was murdered by Indians. Porter Rockwell was in the vicinity at this time, but Porter encouraged him (Babbitt) to slow down a little bit and seek the protection of the wagon train, but for some reason Alma Babbitt was in a hurry to get to Utah. Now, the thing that pointed the finger at Porter Rockwell was that after Babbitt was murdered Porter Rockwell came into Salt Lake with the goods that Alma W. Babbitt was bringing across the plains. And so writers like Achilles and Beattle took up the cry and immediately blamed Porter Rockwell for killing Babbitt and taking his goods. But, Porter Rockwell immediately produced a contract signed by Babbitt whereby Rockwell had been hired to transport this material across the plains to Utah. 7 BC: Well, there is army records of them bringing the Indians, either Commanche or Cheyenne, bringing in some of Babbitt’s material to Fort Laramie as I remember. They made a claim of killing Babbitt and there was even quite a story of how he was killed. He fought quite viciously. He killed four or five Indians before they got him. HS: So, I don't think there was any question about Porter Rockwell's innocence in this affair. In fact, he was never convicted, so far as I know, of any crime. JB: What was Porter's job in Utah? HS: Well, I don't think that Porter enjoyed the confidence of Brigham Young as he was not as friendly with Brigham Young as he was with Joseph Smith; and in Utah, while he carried a lot of responsibility; primarily he worked with the Indians. He and a young interpreter by the name of Bean were kept busy for long periods of time working with the Indians and checking— BC: Chief Walker in particular, wasn't it? HS: Yes, he was the guy that set up the treaty that ended the Walker War. He made all the arrangements and he did have a great talent with the Indians along with this young interpreter that went with him. And they went on quite a number of missions to the Indians. Then, too, I think Porter had the assignment of watching the trails and checking on people who were coming and going. He could make friends—he had qualities about him that, if you didn't know him, that is, if you met him on the plains and you didn't know that he was Porter Rockwell, chances are that you would have liked the man. And I think of a man, Jewels Renney I believe his name was. He and his friend had a brush with the Indians coming across to Utah and they were severely wounded. They got into 8 the outskirts of Salt Lake City and camped. Rockwell was immediately dispatched to their camp to find out about them and Rockwell talked to them and later he brought them into Salt Lake City and made them comfortable. He offered to guide them on to California. Well, these guys wrote an account of Porter Rockwell that was really something. They said he was a fine, up-standing, honest, helpful man and so Porter was able to make friends and to get close to people and find out what their intentions were. Then, of course, he was to report back to headquarters, I suppose. BC: It seems to me too, in that incident, they kind of liked the way he put the booze away. They mentioned the fact that he was quite a drinker. HS: After he cut off his hair—you know the prophecy was that as long as he was faithful to the church and didn't cut his hair off he would not die a violent death. After he cut his hair he said that he wasn't able to control his thirst for liquor. But, he was a drinking man and I suppose he drank all of his life. JB: Why was Porter not convicted for the shooting of Lt. Worrell? BC: I would think in that instance that the testimony of Sheriff Blackentos who was, I guess some people would say "in the pocket of the Mormons," he was very friendly toward the Mormons, he had asked Porter for his protection when the so called "Illinois Greys" were chasing him near where Porter was living and working at that time. He asked for Porter's protection and Porter gave it to him. As Lt. Worrell came into view with his group Porter Hock- well shot him. I think he was quite happy that he did get the man who, he felt, was responsible for the death of Joseph Smith. JB: Lt. Worrell was who he felt was responsible? 9 BC: Yes! JB: Who was Achilles? HS: Well, so far as I know, nobody knows who Achilles was. Achilles was a California writer. He was a rabid anti-Mormon and he accused Porter of about every murder that was committed on the plains. I suppose he remained anonymous because he was afraid of the Mormons and, so far as I know, no one knows even to this day who the guy was that wrote those articles. But, it must have been an important journalist because he must have been associated with one of the newspapers on the coast. But, I don't know who he was and I don't know that anyone knows that. Do you have anything on that Bob? BC: No, I'm not really up on Achilles myself. JB: What was the Aikens murder about? HS: Well, the Aikens murder was one of the notorious cases. And, so far as I know, it was never solved. The story is that the Aikens were men from California who when they heard that the army was on its way to Utah decided to set up a gambling casino near the army and take some of the money away from the soldier boys. And so they came to Utah from California. They came the northern route and, of course, their coming had been reported in Salt Lake long before they got here. When they got to Ogden they were arrested and escorted to Salt Lake. They were kept under house arrest for about a week and they were never brought to trial—they had committed no crime—but, they were told by those in authority that they would not be allowed to go east to the army. The army at this time was camped up in the vicinity of Fort Bridger and they (Church 10 authorities) told them that they could remain either in Salt Lake City or they could go along the southern trail to California. Four of them elected to go on to California by way of the southern route. They were given an escort which consisted of Porter Rockwell and three other men. They went as far as Nephi and they stayed at Nephi... These four men were pretty big strong husky guys and Porter and his group decided that maybe they'd better have some help. Now, this is an account. I am just telling the story here. They decided that they needed some help so they got four men from Nephi to ride out ahead of them. Then Porter and his party came along and the two groups met" and traveled that day. Then that night they camped on the Sevier River and at a signal Porter and his group attempted to club the Aikens party to death. One of them escaped with a few welts on his head. The other three they thought they had killed and they were dumped into the Sevier River. But, I believe it was John Aiken, came to. The cold water brought him to and he made his escape and went back to Nephi. There he met the other man who had been with him, I can't remember his name, I believe it was Wright. So, they stayed in Nephi a few days until they recuperated and then they decided to go back to Sale Lake. Two young fellows offered to drive them back to Salt Lake and they got as far as a spring along the highway. They stopped to drink and these two men were drinking when two men stepped out of the brush and shot them with shotguns. Then, something terrible happened to a man by the name of Jones. He was one of the six men of the Aikens party. They had stayed in Salt Lake but it wasn't long after the murder of these fellows below Nephi there that some of their horses showed up in Salt Lake. And some of their clothing that the men had been wearing was seen by Jones so he started to talk. He had been threatened and a man in Davis County somewhere 11 offered him protective custody. He said, "Come and live at my house and I will give you protection." So, he (Jones) was on his way to this fellow's house when a Bill Hickman— now, this is from Bill Hickman's, I have forgotten the name of the book, but it is from his confessions. He said that he stepped out and stopped the horse and put the shotgun against Honesty Jones' head and killed him. So that was five of the Aikens party that was killed... JB: Do you think Porter would have been convicted of these murders? HS: Well, I don't think so. You see, there was a man with Porter. His name was Collett and he talked a great deal about the murders. In fact, he told the whole story to several people and the story that I have told about the Aikens was from the trial of this man Collett. He was tried before Porter was. Well, Porter never did come to trial and I suppose the reason why he didn't was that they couldn't convict Collett. But, they had no bodies, you see, it was 20 years after the murder. This man, I have forgotten his name, but he was the hotel keeper at Nephi, he testified that he had taken two bodies out of this spring. After Wright and Aiken had been shot at the spring their bodies supposedly were sunk in the spring and the hotel keeper at Nephi JB: This is Side II of the interview with Mr. Stallings and Mr. Colvin on Orrin Porter Rockwell. You were saying, Mr. Stallings, about the hotel-keeper at Nephi finding two bodies in the spring. HS: Now, the hotel keeper testified that he took two bodies from the spring and the defense made a big thing about this. They put witnesses on the stand to prove that the bodies could not have been identified after that length of time in the water. So, Collett was found innocent and Porter Rockwell was never brought to trial. He was out of jail on a 12 $15,000 bail at the time and he died before he could be brought to trial. But, I don't see how they could have convicted him for this murder. BC: I would think if they had tried this case with a non-bias group earlier, shortly after it had been committed, I think they would have been able to get a conviction of either Collett or Porter Rockwell. It seems to be quite over-whelming evidence that the property of these men was in the hands of the people in Nephi and Porter Rockwell himself. They had a large buckskin horse which was very beautiful and Porter Rockwell had this. I think that some of the mules were also in their possession. A witness talked about a coat with a bullet hole in it that one of the people associated with Porter was wearing. They had testimony to this. There was quite a bit of evidence that he was strongly involved in the thing and if they had had a trial probably earlier and not 20 years after they probably could have convicted them. JB: Do you think that Porter Rockwell has been unjustly accused by history as being a murderer for the Mormon Church5 or, do you think that he could possibly have been involved in some of the murders to aid the Mormons in their building the land of Zion? BC: Do you want to answer that? BC: That is a very tough question. Porter Rockwell was certainly a violent man. He was a religious man. He probably was very zealous in carrying out what he thought to be the will of the Prophet Joseph Smith or Brigham Young in many cases. Whether he was a hatchet man is pretty hard to say (for the church). Although he may have done it on his own in many cases. I think, though, if you will listen to Hickman he was a hatchet man. Hickman in his confessions said that he and Porter were instructed by Brigham Young to do these kinds of things. But, it is questionable whether you can believe Hickman in 13 everything he says. So, my own feeling was that I think he kind of did these things on his own; what he thought was right and he thought some of these people needed to be killed because they were wicked or evil. JB: Mr. Stallings, would you like to say something in summary? HS: Well, I would agree with most of what Bob said for I don't think his conscience ever bothered him. I think everything he did was done in the name of the Lord and so I think that that cleared his conscience. I am sure that he was not as black as he was painted by many and I am equally sure that he was not as white as many would have him. JB: Thank you gentlemen for this interview 14 BIBLIOGRAPHY Harris, Beth Kay, The Towns of Tintic, Denver (Sage Books), 1961 Schlindler, Harold, Orrin Porter Rockwell, Man of God. Son of Thunder, Salt Lake City, (University of Utah Press), 1966 Stenger, Wallace, The Gathering of Zion, New York, (McGraw-Hill Book Co.), 1964 VanAlfen, Nicholas, Orrin Porter Rockwell, Mormon Frontier Marshal, Salt Lake City (Deseret), 1971 15