Oral History Program Anonymous Interviewee Interviewed by Jim Miles 25 October 2022 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Anonymous Interviewee Interviewed by Jim Miles 25 October 2022 Copyright © 2024 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description Queering the Archives oral history project is a series of oral histories from the LGBTQ+ communities of Weber, Davis and Morgan Counties of Northern Utah. Each interview is a life interview, documenting the interviewee’s unique experiences growing up queer. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Anonymous Interviewee, an oral history by Jim Miles, 25 October 2022, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections & University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with an anonymous interviewee (denoted as AI), conducted on October 25, 2022 by Jim Miles in the Stewart Library. The interviewee discusses her experiences growing up queer in Utah and the struggles that accompanied it. Also present is Raegan Baird. This interview contains discussion of suicide and sexual assault. JM: It is October 25 at approximately 1:30 p.m., probably a little past that now. We are in the Stewart Library Room 333. I am conducting this interview. My name is Jim Miles. I use he/him pronouns. Behind the camera… RB: I am Raegan Baird. I use she/her. AI: [Redacted]. I use she/her. JM: Thank you. We've addressed this multiple times now, but we will go over just for protection. At any point, [if] you feel uncomfortable addressing anything, [or] we ask a question you don't want to answer, just tell us. Feel free to opt out of any uncomfortable questions. Take a break in the interview at any point in time. If a name is mentioned, please remind us how to spell it if it's an abnormal spelling. Thank you for being willing to sit and share your story. Are you ready to begin? AI: Yes. JM: Fantastic. You use she/her pronouns. Would you mind telling us how you identify sexually? AI: I just identify as queer. I didn't really want a specific label on it, more of like an umbrella term. JM: I'd say if I’m sharing as well, I do also identify as queer for much of a similar reasoning. [To Raegan] What about you? RB: I am straight. JM: There we go. We love a good ally. Let's just start at the very beginning of your life. When and where were you born? 1 AI: I was born here in Ogden, Utah, April, 2003. JM: Awesome. Have you lived here your whole life? AI: Yeah, I've lived here my whole life, right by the campus and everything. Never moved. JM: There you go. What was your family dynamic like growing up? AI: I have a really mixed family. My dad is 25 years older than my mom, and he had four other kids before I was born and they're a lot older than me. So, I was the youngest one and it was just like divorce, family, and half siblings, all that stuff. My mom worked. My dad doesn't work. JM: So you have four siblings? AI: Yeah. Four half-siblings. JM: Four half-siblings. Do you have any other siblings? AI: No. JM: You're the youngest, and then how old are they? AI: They range from like 24 to 45. JM: Fantastic. You mentioned how your family is structured. Has your mom always been the main one working? AI: Yeah, my mom has always worked. My dad's actually disabled, so he can't work, but my mom's always been working. I was pretty much raised by my dad. My mom worked really long hours, and it was just me at home usually and my one brother that lived at home. JM: You said you were raised by your dad; that's not the most typical experience. Do you feel like that had any differences you noticed from maybe other kids your age? AI: Yeah, definitely. I was more of a tomboy always, growing up. I was always doing that stuff with my dad, like sports and fishing—you know, the typical manly stuff. But 2 yeah, that definitely felt different. I didn't really have much of a relationship with my mom when I was a kid. It was different. JM: Of course. It sounds like it would be. You mentioned that you didn't have much of a relationship with your mom as a kid. Does that still stand true? AI: No. Me and my mom actually have a really good relationship now. We're really close. JM: Awesome. What kind of gender roles were you taught, especially in the earlier stages of life? AI: My parents were never really like that because my mom was always the one working. My dad was kind of like the stay-at-home dad, you know—did the laundry, cooking, cleaning, that sort of thing. It was almost reverse of the typical. It never was really super enforced like that, and we had both toys growing up. I had cars and a Barbie and just that sort of thing. JM: Awesome. Did you notice that difference between some of your peers? AI: I did, definitely, especially growing up here with a large religious aspect of it. People thought it was weird that my dad didn’t work or that my brother could do other things like play with typical girl toys, and that sort of thing. They kind of noticed that and it was just the way a mixed family was. JM: It makes a lot of sense. You've obviously mentioned strong religious communities we have in Ogden. Was your family particularly religious? AI: No, my parents are both atheists, actually. JM: Okay. Awesome. Any differences you'd notice? AI: Yeah, that was like a huge difference growing up. I was almost alienated because I wasn't LDS. So that was definitely something that was hard when you're eight and can’t hang out in someone's house because you're not baptized or something. 3 JM: Yeah. There must've been a lot of differences with your peers. Going into school area—did you feel those play into effect? Did you have the typical school experience? AI: Yeah, from elementary to about middle school, I was just a kid. It was pretty normal. Nothing really crazy. JM: Fair enough. It's always a little good to hear that. What were you taught about sexuality at kind of those young ages? We'll go through elementary school period right now. AI: Elementary, I honestly didn't know a lot about it. I have this memory of when I saw two men kissing on the street and I was confused because I had never seen that. I just see my parents, you know, a man and a woman. I asked my mom about it and she explained to me that gay people exist, you know. As I got older, into like fifth and sixth grade, my mom actually started working with a lot of transgender people (she's a speech pathologist) with voice training and stuff like that. Hormones mess up your—I don't know the whole science part of it, but she started doing that. So I learned about transgender, gay, lesbian, I guess, younger than some people. JM: You were aware of them. Did you feel any dissonance between peers about that at that age? AI: No. I didn't really think about it, you know, as a kid. JM: Totally fair. Let's talk about elementary school and the community you had at those younger ages because a lot of interviewees will mention they were religious and they had that as part of their community. What was your community and your experiences throughout elementary school? AI: I actually got bullied a lot in elementary school. I guess I was just an odd kid and I always tried to hang out with the boys and stuff, and that didn't work. I didn't really 4 have a whole lot of friends in elementary school. It was honestly just like me, my dad, and my brothers. My group was my family, primarily. JM: Okay. Our next question on the list of ones I'm supposed to ask for certain is: what was your first exposure to queerness? Was that that kiss that you saw? AI: Yeah, that was my first time. JM: You were saying your parents just kind of explained it to you. They said just, “Queer people exist”? AI: Yeah, my mom, I remember she said, “A man can love a man, and that's okay.” JM: Do you remember having any specific thoughts at that point in time? AI: I just remember being like, “Oh, okay. That's cool.” JM: Awesome. We talked kind of about gender roles. Have you ever had any experiences—you mentioned transgender, being aware of that as a kid—was that kind of your first experience with different gender identities? AI: Yeah, that was my first experience with that. JM: Cool. Let's see. We've made it through the elementary school questions. You mentioned things kind of shook up a little bit right around middle school. AI: Middle school was weird for me. That's kind of when I started to feel more out of place around other people because I was having what I thought were weird attractions to my friends that I didn't really understand. Then in like eighth grade, I started to have a lot of dysphoria with my gender, my body because I was just really confused about going through puberty. But that's kind of when things started to shift more and I was just getting more confused every day about how I felt, who I wanted to be, like what I liked, all that sort of stuff. JM: So obviously with some confusion, specifically in your friend group. Did you ever talk to people within your friend group about that? 5 AI: No. I didn't know. I knew what being like, gay or queer was, but I didn't—I felt ashamed. Almost like it was weird to me, because a lot of the people I grew up around didn't agree with that, like, at all, or their family didn't. I felt dirty, almost, for having a feeling like that. I just kept it to myself completely. JM: I'd say that’s a common feeling that gets expressed in a lot of these interviews, is kind of that point of shame. AI: Yeah. JM: It's interesting that your family appears to have been accepting, but still kind of the broader societal themes. AI: Yeah. JM: Did you have conversations with your family? AI: No, I didn't talk to my family either. I mean, they're very accepting, like it's never been a problem ever. It felt so weird to me just because it wasn't—I don't know. It wasn't like what I had planned out in my head as a kid, you know? Follow the man and all this thing. I was just confused and just a lot of shame. JM: Definitely. Very common thing. AI: Yeah. JM: You mentioned shame, but you did also mention you had a friend group at this point. Did you start having more friends around middle school? AI: Yeah, I had some more friends in seventh and eighth grade. Kind of had to learn to talk to people better. JM: It's always fun to get the balance between sexuality and gender. Did gender roles ever become kind of re-present then, especially with a strong religious community? Did you ever feel as you got older, people started aligning more and you were different? 6 AI: Kind of. I don't know. It’s blurry years for me, but I don't know. I was a kid. I honestly don’t know how to answer that. JM: Totally fine. Was there anything that stood out during your middle school years that we've not touched on that you'd like to? AI: Yeah, my ninth-grade year, I got my first girlfriend because seventh and eighth grade, I was, like, really confused the entire time. Then I got on the internet more, started reading all this stuff and my friend actually reached out to me and said that she was having these feelings for other women, and she was really confused. I was like, “Oh my God, I feel the same way!” and then we dated. JM: Was this one of the friends you had during seventh and eighth grade? AI: Yeah, yeah. She's still my friend to this day. JM: How did that conversation go? If you feel comfortable. AI: The first one, when we were younger? JM: Yeah. AI: That was really eye-opening to me because I finally had this friend who felt the same way, and it was someone my age, because on the internet and stuff I'd been reading, it was like older people. You know? People who had gone through like their whole sexuality and they know. So it was nice to have a friend around my age who understood and it was just—I didn't feel, like, embarrassed anymore because it was finally like someone understood. JM: Of course. Well, you nailed that question as I was writing it. Was it that difference of just feeling like it was close to home and suddenly someone within your life understood? AI: Yeah. JM: Did your parents ever meet this girlfriend? 7 AI: They met her just because we would, like, hang out. But I don't think they knew that I had a girlfriend, that she was my girlfriend, because I still felt weird telling them. Even though my mom, like ever since I was a kid, had been telling me, “If you marry a man or a woman—” it was always that: or a woman—that's okay. We'll be here forever, you know?” Like, this whole thing. But I still felt like... I think it was just because it was like my first relationship too. I felt awkward even telling my mom that I was dating someone, you know? JM: Yeah. So obviously you're dating this person, you've come to recognize you have sexual attraction within the spectrum. Did you come out at that point? Had you come out to yourself at that point? AI: I had come out to myself for sure. I was like, “I like girls and this is okay.” You know? I still didn't want anyone else to know. We were dating, but no one knew we were dating. It was just me and her saying it because she was raised Christian and her parents were super religious and all of her other friends were really religious. It was not something that we wanted people to know. JM: Okay, we've kind of skipped over you coming out to yourself. When do you think you kind of officially came out to yourself? AI: I think probably going into ninth grade. Because eighth grade, that's when I started reading more on the internet about—I finally had a word: bisexual. I was like, “Oh, okay. This just makes more sense. I feel that way, and there's a community around it that supports it.” I think there's other people like that. I'd probably say just going into that ninth grade year ready, comfortable in saying that in my head. You know? JM: Any strong memories of that process of—I mean, you've always talked about learning on the internet—but do you remember that moment it clicked for you? AI: Yeah, I remember I was sitting in front of my mirror and I had this really good friend that I had been friends with for like, my whole life. I was sitting in front of my mirror 8 and I was like, “I'm in love with her.” It felt so weird. Then I remember I said that in my head, like, “Oh, I'm in love with her.” That's when it clicked. I was like, “Oh my God. Something else is happening.” Then I just like turned on music and I felt comfortable and things had made more sense now. It was like I found that part of me that was, like, in this gray area. JM: Awesome. You have people often actually closeting themselves. Do you feel like you had closeted yourself prior to that, or was it just kind of unconscious and then it clicked? AI: I think I had pushed it down a lot, like closeted myself. I don't know. It was just in the back of my head, but it was never something that I was, like, really pushing away, like, “No, I'm straight, I'm straight,” or something like that. It was just there, and then it just clicked one day, I guess. JM: You did mention that you're dating the previous friend at this point. Do you have a name that you're comfortable sharing with us? AI: Yeah. Her name's E. JM: Okay, so you're dating E at this point? I'm just going to write that down so I can refer to her proper. You mentioned she was your first girlfriend. Have you had relationships prior or is this your first relationship as well? AI: That was my first relationship. JM: Okay. If you were to compare the stereotypical first relationships of your peers at the time, any differences you noticed in having kind of your first one being a queer relationship? AI: I feel like it was a lot less awkward. I think in eighth grade when someone's having their first relationship, it's super awkward and they like side hug in the halls or something like that. I just didn't feel it was awkward. I don’t know. 9 JM: That's totally fair. We've got a lot of ground to cover with coming out. So, you have not come out to your parents at this point? AI: No. JM: Okay. Has E come out to her parents? AI: No, she hasn't. JM: Okay. You said she had a strong Christian family. You mentioned you weren't trying to share it, but did you feel the need to hide it? AI: I know she did for sure. She definitely hid it a lot more than I did. I didn't really feel the need to hide it, because at that point, I was warming up to more of this was an okay thing, and my parents obviously would have been fine with it. So, I didn't really feel as much of a need to hide it as she did, but I did at school, a lot just because I was scared of getting made fun of or, you know, whatever they would do. JM: You mentioned that you were bullied a little bit in elementary school. Was that kind of that lingering, like, “Oh, if I let them know, I'm susceptible to it again?” AI: Yeah. JM: At this point in time, had any other queer people you knew within your friend group—and you mentioned you had awareness because of online, but in your personal life, were there any queer people that you saw? AI: Yeah, there was. I went to school with—I can't remember her name, honestly, but she told everyone that she was a lesbian and I think a lot of the kids were like, “What? What is that?” I remember seeing her; she had really short hair and was cool and like all this. I was like, “Oh, I want to be like her.” She was just so comfortable with it. She had a girlfriend too at the time, and they were just super open about it. But that was really the only other like queer person I knew at that time. JM: Did that affect your perception of queerness in any way? 10 AI: I thought it was cool. I was really jealous of her. Honestly, I was just like, “Dang she's just out there and doing her thing. Good for her,” you know? JM: Awesome. I feel like we've spent a good chunk of time in the middle school years. Is there anything else you want to mention during this time? AI: No. JM: You did mention prior of a trigger warning of a suicide. Were there any mental health things? This can be a time where mental health develops in people in terms of depression, stuff like that. AI: I think there was in ninth grade, but I didn't know what it was. I think it wasn't like a full depression, but I had started feeling more sad than normal. You know? Probably around that time, but that more happened in like high school. JM: Well, unless there’s anything else to share, why don’t you just lead us into high school? AI: High school, yeah. My sophomore year of high school, it like, flipped. Everything just flipped. I was in a different school, there were all these people, super nervous. I remember on like the third day of school, someone actually did a burnout with their truck on a gay pride flag. My third day of high school. I remember seeing that and it terrified me because I was just starting to accept myself on the inside and I was getting ready to put it on the outside. But I had seen that on literally my third day of school, and I was so scared. So my sophomore year, that's probably when I closeted myself the most. I was like, “No. See how much people hate this? It's not okay.” That was sophomore year. JM: Okay. Obviously a very jarring experience. A lot of us in the community have had our run-ins with homophobia, but that’s a pretty blatant act. Were you still with your girlfriend at this point? 11 AI: No, we had broken up. We only dated for like four months because we were like 15, but we were still friends at that point. I remember we were both mortified. It was just really upsetting. I cried a lot because it made me feel like that weird kid again, you know? JM: Yeah. You said you talked to E about it. You're not dating at this point. Do you look for what E felt? AI: E was just as upset as well. She was like, "I can’t believe they did that. Why would someone do that?" She was more angry. I think I was more afraid. Yeah, she was mad. JM: Do you know if anything happened? Did the school make a comment or anything? AI: I don't think so, because it was like an outside-of-school event. It was just the third day of school and everyone was meeting up in the parking lot to do stupid stuff. I don't know what they were doing, but that happened. I don't think anyone ever got in trouble or anything like that. JM: Speaking of school culture outside of this incident, did you feel there was kind of a positive or negative perception of the LGBT community in your high school here? AI: Outside of that? JM: Yeah. Obviously, it's a very negative interaction, but beyond that, were there pride events or people open, or was that kind of emblematic of what continued to happen? AI: I had a lot of moments of homophobia in high school. There was always like one weird event every year of my high school that was just so homophobic, so it felt like it was just negative all around there. But I never really felt like there was a positive thing. They had a GSA, but literally no one was in it. The posters got ripped down. It just felt really negative like all throughout high school. JM: This was at Ogden High? 12 AI: No, this was at Bonneville. JM: Oh, Bonneville. So is that Bonneville in... AI: The Terrace. JM: The Terrace, okay. I’m still a little bit of a transplant, so I’m just trying to make sure I know where it is happening. It’s at Bonneville High. Was there any discussion of queer people in classes sometimes for social studies classes? AI: No. None. JM: Let's see if I'm doing my math right. You would be a sophomore at this point, you will be 15. So, this is 2018-ish? AI: Probably. JM: Then if we're doing our math right—I am a little remiss at missing some stuff—we do have some kind of historical trends. Did you hear of Prop 8 at all? Does that mean anything to you? AI: No. JM: That's totally fine. Around 2015 was kind of a marriage equality question. Did you have any interaction with that? AI: I remember my dad watching it on the news when it got legalized and everything in that area. I just remember watching it and I cried and I don't know why I was, because at that point, I was still like, “No.” JM: So was it a negative cry? AI: No, no, it was positive. I felt negative if that makes sense. But yeah, I remember that. JM: Okay. Sorry to take us off course. I was going based on my experience; this would been about sophomore year. So [you] had that experience for the first day, and then you feel like that just continues on that feeling of negativity towards the queer 13 community. Did you have any discussion with people in the community during the rest of this time? Did you have any idols or people you were looking to? AI: Not at this point. That first year of high school, I really just shut it down immediately because of that. It scared me so bad. JM: Did you date anyone else during this time? AI: I had a boyfriend for like two months that I hated. JM: Anything worth mentioning there? AI: No. JM: Okay. So you did mention prior that depression was kind of near the end of ninth grade. Did you feel any of those feelings coming here? AI: Yeah, it was still very mild, though. It just wasn't anything that I couldn't handle or that needed, like, immediate help. It was just kind of like a back-burner thing at that point. JM: Then one last question before I move on to the next stage of life. Have you come out to your parents yet at this point? AI: Yeah, I have come out to my parents. JM: How did that go? AI: Oh, wait, at this point? JM: At this point, so sophomore year. AI: No, sorry. JM: Right. Well, then let's move on to junior year of high school, then. AI: Yeah. Junior year of high school, I feel like I just kind of got over what had happened. I felt a lot more open and I actually started gaining a social media following. I had a TikTok that was private, but I would make videos about being queer and stuff like that. Just stupid text videos. It started getting attention and everything, and that's when I kind of felt like I had more of a community, like even if 14 it was online. I feel like in person I started to not be as afraid to be myself. That's pretty much it. JM: You came out to your parents during junior year? AI: No, I didn't come out until after high school to my parents. JM: Perfect, then I'll stop asking that question. You mentioned you got kind of a social media following. This is 2019, 2020? AI: Yeah. JM: Okay. What year did the pandemic happen in your high school career? AI: Junior year, like the end of my junior year. JM: I'm sorry. TikTok got popular around then, so that was a marker at some point. You mention you get a social media traction. Did you have people following you? Were they good interactions with them? Were people reaching out to you at all? AI: Yeah, it was like a really positive experience. I would just talk about especially being gay in Utah. That's what I would talk about a lot. I had a lot of people from around Utah or from other places reaching out to me through Instagram or whatever, just by telling me, "Oh I love this video,” or like, "Thank you for talking about this." My comments are filled with stuff like that. It just became like a super positive thing for me, so I had this online support. JM: Did Bonneville shut down at the end of the year for COVID as well? Did you go online? AI: Yes. JM: Okay. So is this happening while you're still in person? AI: Yeah, most of this when it really started picking up was during quarantine and everything because I didn't have anything else to do. JM: Okay. Let's put a pin in that for a little bit and go back to kind of in-person stuff you mentioned. There always was one event that was kind of homophobic. 15 AI: Yeah. I always get them mixed up. So, my senior year was... At this point, I started coming out to my friends because I was, like, way more comfortable with it. I started telling my close friends and everything and… It's coming back to me. I started coming out to my friends and everything, and then we went to a party and this was before school shut down and everything. We went to a party and I was talking to this girl who I guess is straight. I don't know, but we were talking and hanging out. One of the friends that I had told at this point I was identifying as just bisexual went up to the girl I was talking to and was like, "Don't be around her. You don't want that." It’s like she viewed me as predatory almost. JM: This is one of your friends? AI: Who I had told. JM: Who you had told, and they tell the girl you're talking to? AI: Yeah. JM: They told this girl not to be around you because they thought you were being predatory? AI: Yeah, and then that kept happening, and that's when people around school started to find out more that I was bisexual at that point. I got called the F slur like, a bunch. But that same girl that I was just talking to at that party that my friend who I told about the… Sorry, getting a little confused here. Her name is S, the friend. JM: That’s okay. Your friend is S. AI: Yeah, the friend that I told. The girl I was talking to is N. S had been going around and telling a bunch of people that I was, like, being creepy and all this. I remember this: I had a gym class and S was in that class. Apparently, she had been telling a bunch of people I also had gym class with that I was staring at them and going to do something inappropriate to them, which was not true at all. That started happening and that's when more people started to find out. But it was never anything insane, 16 you know? I didn't get, like, targeted specifically, but it was just kind of like gossip at that point. JM: You're calling S a friend. Do you remain friends after this interaction? AI: No, just a friend at the time, I guess, is a better word. JM: That's fine. I just want to make sure I'm understanding what's going on. Did you ever have a talk with S? AI: I was driving with her one day because I knew this was happening, but I didn't know what to do. I had a feeling that it was her going around telling people this. I was driving with her, and I remember this, she was like, "You could never actually marry a woman, though, right?" I was like, "Oh, no, I could." It just all switched and she got super uncomfortable. We were in the car together even. I had to pull over and she was like, "I just can't be your friend." That's when I said, "I know you're the person who's going around and saying all these things about me, that I'm creepy because I'm staring at girls in the hallway or something like that." It was just a blow-up argument and then we never speak again thing. JM: I'm sorry to hear that happened. Do you have any thoughts you want to share about that? How you felt after? AI: I remember I was just so angry because at this point, I was becoming comfortable with myself again. I was just like, pissed that she was acting that way because I thought this person was my friend. I didn't feel gross or something like that. I wasn’t like, "Oh, she's right. I am being creepy." I didn't feel that way. I was just more angry, and I kind of honestly just brushed it off and moved forward, because I was like, “If she's going to not like me for who I am, then why am I wasting time?” JM: Did you ever talk to any of your other friends about this incident? 17 AI: Yeah. She was kind of like in a separate friend group from my main friend group, if that makes sense. I had talked to my really close friends about it, and they were all very accepting. E was in that friend group, my close friend in high school. They were like, "What the hell? What do you mean?" Just stupid. JM: Yeah. I'm trying to think of where to go from here. Are you still comfortable talking about these experiences? Do we need to take a break at all? AI: No. I'm good. JM: Just sometimes people hit these harder moments [and] they want to take a breather. We'll keep going through then. You mention it was kind of a side group, and you mentioned N was the girl you had talked to. Did you interact with N much after that? AI: No, no. I'm pretty sure she told S, “What are you saying? That's stupid. She's normal. She's not doing anything." JM: Okay. You did say you never felt extremely targeted. Did you feel kind of lingering? AI: Yeah. It was just like there. But I did know kids in high school—most of them were trans—who were being directly targeted. I never felt that much impact, if that makes sense. They were totally being targeted, bullied, harassed, all this stuff, and I was just getting stared at in the hallway. Nothing intense there. JM: Sounds like some pretty severe stuff. Do you have any experiences along the lines of what was happening with trans kids? AI: No, I didn't really know a lot about what was happening. Again, it was just gossip or what I heard or something like that. But there was this one person who—I believe they were non-binary or transitioning, I'm not really sure at that point how they identified—but they would get harassed a lot in the hall. Just like getting their backpack ripped off of them or something or people—slurs always and stuff like that. But other than that, I just would just hear about it and I didn't even know. The 18 kids really who were getting attacked like that, the school didn't do anything about it, of course. JM: I guess I didn't follow up on it much. You did mention that you'd had some questioning about your gender identity. Where did that kind of culminate? AI: That was back in middle school, I think. I was just so confused about what was going on in my own body, and that's when I had been reading more about being transgender. I was like, "Oh, am I transgender, or anything like that?" But that diminished pretty quickly. JM: Sorry, I didn't follow up on that back then. AI: Oh no, you're good. JM: So, this is all still in-person school. We've not gone online, which is when you have your TikTok following. Any other events between those two? AI: No, no. Not really. JM: Okay. Let's do a check up on the depression again. Is it still kind of on the back burner? AI: At the in-school part? Yeah. That was just the back burner. JM: Then let's go ahead and jump to when things get shut down. AI: Yeah. That's when it got bad. I had started gaining all this following and everything, but school was shut down. I couldn't see my friends or anything, and all I had was this online thing. I think it was just making me go insane a little bit. I don't know. Just at that point, it was still pretty new. JM: The pandemic is new? AI: Oh, like those feelings, like feeling really depressed. I didn't know what was going on. I was just confused. JM: You mentioned you couldn't see your friends. Did you still interact with them— talking to and texting them, or was it no interaction? 19 AI: Yeah, we would text every day and talk, but I couldn't see them in person or anything. JM: So it just kind of all feels online. AI: Yeah. JM: No in-person interactions. Obviously, people who lived at home, sometimes they'll have kind of a turning point with their family, for good or bad. How did quarantining, shutting down affect your family life? AI: My mom works in the hospital, so she was gone constantly. It was just me and my dad again, and honestly it didn't affect our dynamic very much. My mom was gone more, but we were used to that, so it felt normal, honestly. JM: That's fine. You had mentioned at one point you had an older half-sibling staying with you. Were they still staying with you at this point or had they moved out? AI: They were still living with us at that point, but he had work and was gone. JM: That's totally fine. We'll kind of hit back to some of the social media questions. So you're garnering this traction on social media and everyone's kind of going online, and you said it was mostly positive experiences. Did you feel like you were doing outreach with communities or you were helping people out? Was vice versa happening? AI: I didn't feel like I was helping people come out, really. I would just make relatable content, you know. I did have some people who would just like, put it into perspective for me, like, “Oh, this makes sense now. Maybe I am queer.” Something like that from a stupid video, so maybe in that way. JM: So, that's what you just mentioned; it was queer-centric. I was curious what kind of content it was. AI: Yeah. 20 JM: Okay. You're having generally good interactions, but depression is kind of kicking off. Is there anything junior year we should talk about? Summer following junior year? AI: I guess I should have put this as, like, a trigger warning. JM: It's fine. It's all good. AI: I got assaulted my junior year, summer. Sexual assault. JM: I'll make a note of that really quick. Thank you. AI: Yeah, that's kind of where it all started. It was by a man and I was like, so disgusted because at that point, I had no sexual experiences, so I was pretty grossed out that it was a man, and that it happened that way, obviously. JM: It’s as much as you would like to share. Is there anything to share of the actual experience that you feel is relevant? AI: No. I don't. JM: So then let's talk about the aftermath. Did you tell friends? Did you tell family? AI: No. I kept it a secret completely, because again, I felt this embarrassment that that had happened. It felt like my fault, like that sort of thing. But that's kind of when I started to get more depressed. I think the fact that I was assaulted by a man just confused me even more about my sexuality, because I hated it, obviously. JM: That’s okay, that's hard stuff. Does it make you feel isolated that you're keeping it a secret? Does it isolate you more from people? Do you feel like you're hiding stuff? AI: Yeah. It felt like my shame that I was carrying or something. I did feel really isolated because the person who did it was, like, relevant in high school. So I didn't want to tell anyone. I didn't feel like making it a big thing, I guess. JM: Will you explain ‘relevant’ a little bit? AI: He was the football captain, you know, popular. I don't know, I almost feel bad if I told someone about it. I don’t know. 21 JM: Thank you for clarifying. You mentioned depression kind of kicks up after this. Is there a progression that you'd like to share along those lines? AI: After that happened, I just felt like I was so upset that that had happened. It was really when it started to kick in. It was right before my senior year and everything and I didn't know what I was feeling, honestly. I was really isolated and then on top of that, I was so confused about being so grossed out because it was a guy. So my sexuality, I was like, “Oh, I'm a lesbian.” But yeah, over those months leading up to senior year after it happened, it just got increasingly worse. I started doing drugs and stuff like that to cope and it just starts to spiral down. JM: Of course. We'll leave that one for later. I do at one point want to talk about how that made you question your sexuality. But since you just mentioned it already, you said drugs as a method of coping, and lots of people mention self-harm is something like that. Was drugs kind of the scope of... AI: It was drugs and self-harm, mostly. All these like, nasty ways to cope. JM: Okay, we'll keep that brief and then we'll try and move on a little bit more. But you said it made you question your sexuality. You specifically said, are you a lesbian? AI: Yeah. JM: If you're comfortable sharing, do you want to walk us through kind of how you were questioning? AI: Yeah, at that point I still had attraction for men. I have crushes on boys and stuff like that. After that happened, I was just so repulsed by men and it just felt like it was back when I was younger again, because I was so confused. I was like, “Oh, I thought I was bisexual. This was all making sense.” Now this happens, and I don't even want to be in the same room as a man, you know? I just started getting super uncomfortable with the thought of doing anything sexual with a guy or even getting 22 close to a guy. It just kind of progressed into more of like, “Maybe I am a lesbian.” Just kind of that thought process there of confusion. JM: Sounds like a very reasonable circumstance and progression. So you didn't tell family or friends? AI: No. JM: Did you seek any help at any point, just trying therapy? AI: Yeah. At this point, it was like a month before my senior year started. I had told my mom—we were at dinner and I was like, “I think I'm depressed.” She put me into therapy. We started doing that whole thing. I did reach out to my mom just in a really simple way. I just said, “I might be depressed. Can you do something about this for me?” She didn't make it a big thing or anything. I just got into therapy and everything. Still told no one about it and none of my friends; I didn't even tell my therapist until quite recently that that had happened and everything. JM: That's totally fine. It is a life story, so trying to just parse out what's happening chronologically. You are seeing a therapist at this point, and you've told your parents it’s general depression. Did that kind of help with these mental health issues that you're facing as well? AI: No it didn't. I just think it didn't help because I wasn't ready to get help or something. Especially with the drugs being a part of it as well; you can’t send someone to rehab and expect them to get better overnight, that sort of thing. They're only going to get better if they want to get better. I feel like that's why it didn't help in those beginning parts. JM: Is there anything else you'd like to talk about summer of junior year? AI: No. JM: Okay. We're moving into senior year. Is Bonneville still doing online school? 23 AI: It was mixed. It was in person for a bit, and then we had to go online, and then it was just kind of like a weekly thing that was different. JM: But so you start in-person? AI: Yeah. JM: You go back to school in-person, you're seeing a therapist. You don't come out to your parents till after high school, right? AI: Yeah. JM: Okay. You've not come out to them yet. You're in person. You're talking to your friends. That friend group that you've had? AI: Yeah, yeah. It's still my same friend group. JM: How did it start? AI: My senior year, I met this person who at the time identified under the name of A and used she/her pronouns. We started, I guess, dating, I don’t know. We started talking. She was a year younger than me. Homecoming was coming up, so I asked her to homecoming. It was an outdoor homecoming because of COVID and everything. At homecoming, I remember we went together, and I think we were both afraid because we were both girls at this point. We were just afraid of going together because it was known in high school that I was queer, but it wasn't known that she was. There was this fear going on there. I remember we were dancing together because it was a slow song, and someone threw something at her head, and these boys just started yelling at us, so we ran back to my car full speed because we were afraid. People started following us, stuff like that. That was not a great way to start my senior year . JM: That would be very difficult. AI: It’s the immediate homophobia. You know? 24 JM: Of course. You mentioned people were following you—are we talking negatively, positively? Are they trying to make sure you're okay, or are people chasing you out of the event? Or you don’t know? AI: Both, because my one friend saw it happen, so she started running back to my car with me. But then the person who threw it at her had got his friends and they got in their trucks and tried to follow my car and everything. It was both, I guess. JM: That obviously would be very difficult. You talk with A at this point? I assume that they transition at some point? AI: Yeah. He goes by E now. JM: How would you like us to refer to E? AI: He prefers that when we talk about him as A, that we just call ‘A’ like it's just a different person; A, she/her. It's like that. He just prefers it separate, I guess. JM: Perfect. At what point did E transition then? AI: E actually just recently started transitioning. JM: Okay, so for most of this interview, I will just refer to him as A. AI: Yeah. JM: Perfect. So an awful event happens at homecoming; you and A are obviously not feeling great about it. Did you talk about that night? What did you do, aftermathwise? AI: Yeah, we talked about it in my car, just more of like, “Oh my God, that was crazy! I can't believe that just happened.” I don't think it really set in that it was basically like a hate crime thing. I think we were just like, “Why did that happen?” I think that in the days following, we realized it was because we were together. JM: At this point, is A out to her family? AI: No, no. Completely not. JM: Did you tell your parents about the incident? 25 AI: Yeah, I did. I think my mom knew that I was queer because I was like, "I'm going to the dance with this girl," and like, "This happened because we were dancing together." I told my mom about it and she was pissed. She was super upset. But again, it was because the school didn't have like actual homecoming. They had a separate one that the parents put together for the kids, so they couldn't do anything about it again. So, no, the kids that did it didn't get in trouble or anything because it was outside of school. JM: Did someone try pressing charges? AI: No, because I told my mom not to get involved because I didn't want it to be a thing, because I was scared of something else happening. Me and A had just agreed at that point to just be like, “Okay, that happened. We'll move forward.” JM: Okay, so did A tell her parents? AI: No. JM: No. So your parents know, but you asked them not to get involved. Do you face any aftermath at school? In the following little bit, did people mention or talk about it? Are you getting teased? AI: Yeah people. Again, nothing directly happened to me after it, but I would hear people talking about it. Someone would come up to me and be like, “Oh, I heard about what happened at homecoming. That's crazy.” Most of the time I heard about it, it was people being like, “That is really messed up that that happened.” I never really got a negative aftermath after it. It wasn't negative. No one came up to me. It didn't happen again or anything like that. JM: Nothing really happened after that. You were dating A at this point, you said? AI: Yeah. JM: Okay. So you're in a relationship. Do you guys continue your relationship afterwards? 26 AI: No, no. Like a month after, we just kind of… We're still friends. JM: Okay, so hell of a way to start off the school year? AI: Yeah. JM: How did things progress? AI: This is when things got out of hand for me because it really upset me that that happened. I didn't want to show it or anything, but I was super upset. These feelings of ‘being gay was wrong’ started to come up again, like my queerness was a horrible thing. Like it shouldn't happen. I started getting really, really depressed, and I was coping with being depressed with drugs and everything. Then halfway into the school year, right before winter break, that's when I had my suicide attempt, because it was just too much. I felt disgusting because… I don't know. It's just like I felt gross that I even thought it was a good idea to go to that dance, you know? The thoughts just keep spiraling. You feel like it's… you're not worth it. This whole thing, it just… down. You know? JM: Very understandable progression, especially if you're already to the place where you're having issues of mental illness. AI: Yeah. JM: I'm going to take a half step back before we talk about the suicide attempt. Do your parents know that you're kind of self-medicating at this point? AI: No, they had no idea. Again, my mom was gone, and at this point, my dad has a progressive illness, so at this point, it's getting worse. He's not cognitively noticing as much, so no one really knew at home. JM: No one knew at home. Who did know? AI: One of my close friends kind of knew, but again, this was another thing I was ashamed of, that I was doing drugs. I was like, “That's embarrassing.” Her name's R; she only kind of knew because I was like a zombie some days, you know? Or 27 like, I would be weird and leave. It was like context clues that she knew. I never told anyone specific, like, “Hey, I'm doing drugs.” JM: So, you mentioned you left. Did you leave school, are you absent in classes? AI: Yeah. I wouldn't go to school. Never showed up. I would just stay at home. Or like, if I was doing stuff with my friends, I'd only be there for an hour and then leave. JM: It's maybe not the most relevant right now. What kind of grades would you say you got? AI: I still did really well in school. That was the one thing my mom cared about, so that's the one thing I upkept. JM: So you were a good student kind of prior to self-medicating; even through the selfmedicating, you kind of maintained that? AI: Yeah. JM: You're missing classes. Do people, teachers notice? Do they reach out to your parents? AI: Um, no. It was kind of shocking that they didn’t, honestly, because I literally did not go to school, like at all. But I guess they didn't reach out because I was still passing everything. JM: And you said R knows, but they don't know the extent? AI: Yeah. JM: Okay. Anything you feel like we should address? Anything you want to tell from your story before we get into your suicide attempt? AI: No. JM: Okay. Obviously, a period that’s hard for people to discuss, so I am going to leave it a bit up to you. Why don’t you tell us just generally what you're comfortable—about how much you'd like us to know about this suicide attempt. 28 AI: I remember it was the day after Thanksgiving, and at this point, I was like, really heavy on drugs. I was doing a lot of pills, like benzos and stuff like that, so it was just getting really out of control. During this whole day, the day it happened, I just remember thinking like, the whole time I was embarrassed; embarrassed that I was doing drugs, embarrassed that I was gay, and embarrassed that I was just me. I remember thinking that the whole time. I tried to overdose and my mom found me and took me to the hospital. I was in the hospital for a week and a half doing a detox and getting mental health therapy and all that. While I was in the hospital, they actually have a LGBTQ rep. I don't know what it is… JM: Resources. AI: Yeah, who would come in and talk to me about that sort of thing. That's like the broad. JM: Yeah. I'm going to take a little time between questions here. Make sure we're asking things that are relevant. Your mom finds you. Are you unconscious? Do you remember this, or she told you what happened? AI: I don't remember a lot. I remember taking stuff, and then honestly my next memory is me, like, filling out my menu thing for what I want to eat while I stay there. It's really, really blurry all in there. My mom’s told me parts of it and everything, but she doesn't like to tell me the whole thing because it's really upsetting for her. So I don't even know all of it. JM: So, your mom finds you, takes you to the hospital. You mention you have a really close relationship with your dad. What's going on with him at this point? AI: So, my mom found me at like, 2 a.m., and so he's asleep at this point. Like I said, he doesn't have cognitive abilities as much anymore, so it was just easier for my mom just not to wake him up until the morning and tell him. At that point, he didn't know. He knew like the morning after. 29 JM: Mom gets you to the hospital. You mentioned that you remember filling out a menu. At what point in your stay is this? Is this a couple days in? AI: This is probably like 12 hours after. JM: 12 hours after? AI: Yeah. Cause I had gotten like… JM: Lunch, presumably. AI: Yeah. Yeah, it was lunch. JM: At this point, who's there? Family-wise, who's been told? AI: I got immediately admitted to the psychiatric unit, so my mom had to leave. I was just alone in there, alone with other people. I think just my mom and my dad knew, none of my friends or anything like that. JM: Do you have extended family that’s in your life? Are they being told at this point? AI: Not really. I'm not close with them. JM: It's just Mom and Dad. Now you're in psychiatric care. Knowing a little bit of that process, generally they'll have some visiting hours. Are you allowed visiting hours? AI: Yeah. That same night, the day after, I guess, we had visiting hours and my mom came and I was just really angry that I was there, because I was having a withdrawal. I was angry that I couldn’t go do drugs, and I was like, "Get me out of here,” this whole thing. That was the first day. JM: It’s just your mom visiting that first time? AI: Yeah. JM: I know that there were some COVID protections at certain points, are multiple people allowed to visit you or is it just one per day? AI: You had one visitor for the whole stay. JM: Okay. Does anyone else visit you while you're staying in there? AI: No, it was just my mom. I got a phone call as well, but I would just call my mom. 30 JM: Okay. Your posture has changed just a little bit. How are you feeling? Do we need to take a break? AI: I don't need a break. JM: Okay. Are you okay, Raegan? RB: I'm good. JM: If you're okay continuing, then we will just continue on. So, you're getting psychiatric care, you're seeing an LGBT representative, you're getting resources on that front. Are you seeing a therapist? Are you talking about these things? AI: Yeah. We had a therapist come every morning, midday and night and a psychiatrist once a day to get you on medication and stuff. I just wouldn't talk for like the first couple of days I was there because again, I was going through, like, a withdrawal, so I was angry. JM: Okay, so you don't talk the first couple of days. How are you feeling? Obviously, withdrawals and you mentioned anger. It's going to be very prevalent, especially during your stay, I'm sure. You mentioned you had a lot of feelings that kind of led up to the suicide [attempt]. How are you starting to break those down? Are you thinking about them? What's going through your head in these first few days? AI: Honestly, the only thing I really could think of was drugs. That's honestly all I could think of. I was just like, “I have to get out of here. Like, what am I doing?” That whole stay is pretty much… The first few days, it was just kind of a blur. But I remember my main concern was like, “How am I going to get out of here?” JM: It's very... ‘Reasonable’ doesn't feel like the right word, but very on par with what's going on. AI: Yeah. JM: At what point do you feel like that changes, then, or does it? 31 AI: Yeah, it did change. I was there for a week, five days and a weekend. I just was like, "You know what? This is good for me. This is how I turn it around. I can get back to being myself again." Just like a weekend, I was like, “Okay.” I started taking it more seriously. I, like, listened, actually. JM: So, a week comes in. Same question I asked before. What's going through your head? What are you breaking down? What are you thinking about? Obviously, it's the point you think you're going to turn it around, but in what ways? AI: I just started. I was like, showering, and I remember thinking, “I don't have to hate myself.” That's a choice I made, to hate myself, you know? I just remember a lot of thoughts about that, that I didn't have to hate who I was because someone else didn't like who I was. That's my own life, so I can enjoy it. I just remember thinking stuff like that. JM: Okay. Just so I can get my timeline straight, at what point is the LGBT rep there? From the beginning, or do they come in at a certain point? AI: She came in like three days in. JM: Three days? And are you talking to her about this time you're having this moment? AI: Yeah, we would talk, but it honestly was just like friend talk. It wasn't like, “Oh, I feel gross about being gay.” She would just talk to me, but in a positive way, so it was really helpful. JM: Okay. Then seeing therapists, psychiatrists come; you're talking to them and you decide that you cannot hate yourself. I assume this is in reference to your sexuality? AI: Yes. JM: Are there other things that you feel like you're not going to hate yourself further on? AI: No, no. It was mainly that. JM: Obviously you're in there because of a drug overdose and self-medication. Are there feelings of, like, “I'm going to get clean after this?” 32 AI: Yeah, I knew I was going to stop because I had been off it for just that week and I immediately felt so much better. I could think. You know? JM: Pretty eye-opening. AI: Yeah. JM: Feels like we're kind of rounding out all these questions, getting to the end of your stay there. Is there anything else relevant that you want to talk about that happened during that time? AI: There was a lot of queer people in the [unit]. I don't know. I feel like that's important, that a lot of the people who were in my unit and everything were queer. I would like, talk to them about it and they could relate a lot to how I felt gross. I don’t know, I finally met someone else who understood. JM: Okay. You're talking to the queer community within there and getting exposed to that, and kind of seeing, I assume, similarities in stories. AI: Yeah. JM: Any stand-out experiences? Any stand-out conversations with anyone in there? AI: Yeah, there's this girl named AP. It was like my fifth day in there, and she came up and talked to me. She was sitting next to me, and she was like, "You're really pretty." I was like, "Oh, okay thanks." She told me, she's like, “I'm a lesbian.” I was like, “Oh, that's cool.” Just a weird conversation, but then we just started talking more. I remember, because I was telling her what happened, she was like, "You know, you don't have to hate yourself. Right? You know you are who you are and that's just how it's going to be." She just said it like, so matter of fact, like, “Well, that's too bad. Deal with it.” You know? 33 That's when I was kind of like, "Oh. Yeah.” JM: It sounds like you've kind of parroted that sentiment. Is that where that came from? That conclusion? AI: Yeah. JM: So, AP talks to you and just kind of says, “You don’t have to hate yourself.” Any other experiences, conversations in there? AI: No. JM: No, okay. Sometimes people will gather friend groups. Did you continue talking to AP? AI: We couldn't really, because it was during COVID, so it was kind of spread out and there wasn't really group time just to like, limit your contact and everything. So not really. JM: Okay. Spending a lot of time alone, but do you have chances to talk to each other? AI: Yeah. JM: Did you talk to your therapist at all about these feelings of your sexuality? AI: Yeah, I did. JM: At this point, had you talked to your mom about that? AI: No. Still haven't said a word about that. JM: What are you talking to your mom about during those visiting hours? AI: We would really just like, catch up because I would just be like, "How are our cats?" I talk to people all day about what I'm going through, I don't want to talk to my mom about it too. I would just be like, "How is your day?" JM: It sounds understandable. AI: Yeah. JM: Is there anything else you want to talk about before we get to you coming out? No? Okay. So you leave the facility. Is there a kind of in-between? 34 AI: Uh, no. I was just released. JM: Sometimes they'll have—I forget the term for it—but essentially you have to check in and you go to a place and do like every other day type activities. AI: I wasn't doing that, but my therapist is connected to the psychiatric unit. I had therapy every week; that was kind of like my check-in. It wasn't at the hospital or anything. JM: Outpatient is what I believe it's called. You didn't do outpatient. So you checked in with your therapist once a week? AI: Yeah. JM: Okay. Did you go back to school immediately after? Was it online? What's that looking like? AI: It was online. Yeah. I had like two weeks just to stay back, kind of do it online, and then I started going to school again in person. JM: So this would be right around the holidays? AI: Yeah, and then we had another break. JM: Before you go to break again? AI: Yeah. JM: Okay. At this point, do your friends know? AI: Oh, yeah. I had told my three really close friends what had happened. There was just a lot of like, ‘I'm sorry’s. Just being supportive. JM: Conversations with your parents? AI: You know, it was kind of like, unspoken with my parents. They would watch me, but it wasn't… I don't know. We never really talked about it until months after. JM: Yeah, it's understandable. AI: Yeah. 35 JM: Okay. Lots of, ‘I'm sorry’s from friends. Anything notable conversation-wise that happens with them regarding your visit, or your stint? AI: Not really. JM: Okay. So, we jump to holidays, then? Very shortly after. Any extended family? Are you around people, or is it still… AI: It’s just my little. JM: It’s all good. I assume someone in health care probably kept you pretty... AI: Yeah. JM: Okay. So you just spent the holidays with your family. How does that go? AI: It was great. It was honestly like, the months after that, just even those few weeks, I 180’d completely. It was like a huge turning point for me. I was, like, immediately better. Through a lot of work! [laughs] JM: Right. ‘Immediately’ might be masking what had led up to that. You mentioned very early on that you didn't have a huge relationship with your mother. Is this about the time that things start changing? AI: Yeah. I had to be monitored at home after I got out for a little bit, and my dad couldn't do it. My mom would be working through the night or something while I was sleeping. We started hanging out a lot more. She had to hang out with me. JM: This is Christmas break. You mentioned you don't come out until after high school. Do you have conversations about that, or just getting to know each other in general? AI: Yeah, no. No conversations about that still. JM: So, anything else you want to share about Christmas break? Just generally a good experience. Turning point. You start getting into stronger relationships with your family. You go back to school. AI: Yeah. 36 JM: Online, in person? AI: In person. JM: Okay. How does that look, meeting your friends face-to-face? AI: It just felt like normal again. I don't know. I really, really changed a lot over just those two or three months after. It was just like, pretty transformative. I don't know, I felt like myself again. So it was normal. That's the only way I can describe it. JM: Yeah. Do you have a partner at this point in time? AI: No. JM: No? Do you have a partner the rest of your senior year? AI: No. JM: Okay. Any experiences with homophobia and stuff like that? AI: No. JM: Leading up to graduation then. Things start happening. Do you prep for a graduation ceremony? Do you get an actual graduation ceremony? AI: Yeah, we did have a small graduation ceremony. JM: And you and your friends your age, are you all graduating together? AI: Yeah, yeah. We're all graduating together. JM: Anything that happens during this point in time that you want to share? AI: No. JM: No? Nothing too relevant? You get to the graduation ceremony and afterwards, you're an adult now? AI: Yeah. I took a gap year from school and I just worked full-time and just stayed sober and kept doing therapy. All that stuff I was just busy doing, you know? I don't know. I just focused on me. JM: What are you doing, occupation-wise? AI: I was a manager at JCPenney. I did work there, like, constantly. 37 JM: I'm sure plenty of funny stories. Is there anything worth… AI: No, no. JM: Okay. Take a gap year. Do you stay in touch with friends? Do you have your friend group? How does that look? AI: Yeah, me and my friends from high school. We all still hang out, even now. I made some new friends from my job and everything. JM: Do you get a partner during this time? Do you stay single? AI: I had a boyfriend briefly. There was just nothing notable there. JM: Okay. That's fine. Relationship with your family, does that still keep getting better? AI: Yeah, it gets better. At that point, I think five months after I graduated, that's when I came out to my parents and it was just the most normal conversation on Planet Earth. It was just like, "Mom, I'm queer." She was like, "Okay. What do you want for dinner?" JM: You say they might have intuited a little bit at this point? AI: Yeah, I'm sure they were. JM: Most normal conversation out there. That can be abnormal within the community. AI: Yeah. I feel really lucky that I didn't have some super dramatic coming out because I've known people that have come out to their parents and it's ended in them getting kicked out or something, anger and all this. I feel very lucky that I had such a supportive family and that I could just come out in that way, conversation casually. JM: Do you remember any thoughts leading up to or following? Are you nervous? Are you relieved afterwards, or what’s going through your head? AI: I was pretty nervous to actually say it out loud to my mom's face, but I knew that she would have a not-negative reaction. Anything but negative. I was just more nervous to actually say it, but not of what might happen. After, I felt relieved because then I 38 could start bringing girls over and not feel like I was hiding something, even though they totally knew what was going on. It was relief after, of course. JM: Awesome. Raegan, I have made mistakes and not asked you. Do you have any questions at this point? RB: No. JM: Okay. So you told your parents, this is five months into the gap year. AI: Yes. JM: We're sitting February-ish or December? Somewhere in there? AI: Yeah, December. JM: Then things continue. You're making friends. Do you have any LGBT-centric experiences? AI: No. JM: Are you attending Pride events or anything? AI: I didn't go to Pride after I graduated because I was working. I really wanted to, but during this period of my life, it was more just like me getting back on track. JM: Maintenance period, which can be mundane when you're going over your history, but very necessary. AI: Yeah. JM: Okay. Is there anything that you want to talk about that we haven't touched on during this gap year period? AI: No, very boring. JM: No. Mental health doing okay? AI: Yeah. I was doing fantastic. JM: You were coming out to your family. You're content with yourself. Who cares what the world thinks? AI: Yeah. 39 JM: I hate myself. Mental health. Family. And then, gender identity? AI: That was just solid. JM: Solid? Been solid since that one little touch with it there? AI: Yeah. JM: Okay, then we won’t touch up on that. You said gap year from schooling. You go to college in the fall? AI: Yeah. JM: Here? AI: Yes, here. I took a queer theories class and I ended up dropping it. I just took that. I just did school again. I was still in this period of getting things together and everything when I went back to school. JM: Do you pick a major at this point? AI: No, no, no. I still don't have a major. JM: So, you’re just going back to Weber? You decided it's the next step to do. It sounds like your family may have been college-educated. AI: Yeah. JM: Do you feel like it was expected of you? AI: I don't feel like it was expected, but I knew my mom really wanted it and I knew that I didn't want to work at JCPenney for the rest of my life, so I went to school. JM: Seems fair. AI: Yeah. JM: But not really expected. Was your mom the first in her family line to go to college? AI: Yeah, my mom was. JM: Okay. She's first-generation. You're second-generation, then? AI: Yeah. 40 JM: So you're coming here and maintenancing [sic]. Still figuring things out. You said you drop some classes. Are you a full-time student; are you working part-time? AI: I was a part-time student. I only took like one class. During that fall, I only took one class because I just wanted to slowly get back into it. That spring too, I just took one class, and now I'm more full-time, I guess. JM: Last school year was your first year, then? AI: Yeah. JM: Okay. We got to make sure we're keeping dates right. Part-time student. Are you working on the side? AI: Yeah, I was working. JM: Still at JCPenney? You mentioned previously you're at Ulta now? AI: Yeah, I switched at some point. I don't remember. JM: It's okay. Unless it's super relevant for other reasons, you don't have to know exactly when your job transition was. AI: Yeah. JM: You're coming to college, you take the queer studies class, you drop it. Do you have other experiences with the LGBT community at Weber? AI: Honestly, no, not really. JM: Are you spending much time on campus? AI: No, I'm not on campus. I just live so close. I was kind of just going to school to scope it out. I wasn't doing any activities, meeting people. Stuff like that. JM: Are they in person classes or are they online? AI: Yeah, they were in person. I would just come and then leave. JM: Scoping it out and spending a lot of time at home. Still working. How's your friend group? Do you have experiences with the community in any way through them? AI: No, honestly. 41 JM: Do you have experiences with the community in general? AI: During this time? JM: Yes. AI: Honestly, no. JM: Okay. So that leads us to summer. Do you do Pride, then? AI: Yeah, I went to my first Pride and it was awesome. It's like my favorite thing I've ever done. I do remember feeling kind of nervous though, because I saw the protesters out there, and I started getting a little scared and everything. It was reminding me of other stuff. But then immediately it was just gone because I was having so much fun. JM: So what Pride event did you go to? AI: We went to the one down in Salt Lake. We went to the festival and then the parades. JM: Did you do the march as well? AI: No, I was working. I went to the thing at the Capitol Building. I forget what it’s called. JM: Was it queer-centric? AI: Yeah, it was. I can't remember. JM: But it was also right around this time, I believe we have Roe v. Wade, which is another thing people talk about. AI: Oh, yeah. JM: But that was queer-centric? AI: Yeah, it was a Pride event at the capital. JM: You really enjoy it. Did you take friends? Did you go with family? Did you go alone? AI: Oh, yeah. E and her boyfriend went with me. It was just us three that went, waving the flag. It was just super supportive, like the whole [thing]. 42 JM: I think the next thing might be Roe v. Wade. I think that's before school starts. Roe v. Wade is something we do like to hit on. It's more of a supplementary question, because it also deals with general identity and sexuality in terms. What was your experience with the overturning of Roe v. Wade? AI: I was incredibly upset for just a lot of reasons. I was just really upset. I just couldn't believe that that was happening. It felt like we were really time traveling and that I was losing rights over my body and my friends’ bodies and all. Just anyone with a uterus in general, anyone who can have a baby. It was really upsetting. JM: Understandably. Did you go to any events around it? AI: I wanted to go to the protests, but I was working. JM: Obviously, you mentioned a lot of negative feelings of anger and stuff like that. Have you had conversations with friends, family about it? AI: Yeah, me and my mom talked about it for a long time because she is a healthcare worker. She believes that abortion is healthcare and everything, so she was super mad about it, too. JM: So your views kind of align? AI: Yeah. JM: Any experiences—did you feel any shifts in dynamic that were notable, that hadn't been there prior, just in general in your life? AI: No. JM: Okay, that's perfectly fine. You come back to Weber and you're more full-time now. AI: Yeah. JM: That’s this semester, right? AI: Yeah, this semester. JM: Are you getting involved in the LGBT community? 43 AI: I was trying to look at all the clubs and everything. I'm still not on campus very much, but I saw that we have a GSA, and I've been trying to figure out how to get a part of that, but I haven't really had time. The only really LGBTQ stuff I've done is this. JM: Perfectly fair. How did you hear about this, by the way? AI: I saw the banner at Starbucks and scanned it. JM: Did you go to the Ogden Pride event as well? AI: No. I couldn’t. JM: That's totally fine. I would say that's where we get a lot of our interviewees from that as well. You saw it at Starbucks, didn’t go to Ogden Pride. Anything LGBT-centric in this recent period that you feel necessary to add? AI: No. JM: Since we've covered most of your life, let's make sure I get my core questions done so I don't get lectured afterwards. We kind of talked about this broadly, but do you feel like there were any outside factors that helped you process and discover your identity? AI: Mostly just other people's stories, just stuff I heard on the internet. JM: AP? AI: Yeah, AP. JM: Has your queerness changed the way that you interact with people and the world around you? AI: Just the way I interact in general, or? JM: In anything, if there's any differences you've noticed. AI: No, not really. Nothing I can think of. 44 JM: Yeah, that's totally fine. That's okay. You mentioned that you think one of your first experiences was seeing two men kiss, but did you see other representation growing up in popular media? AI: My mom actually has a picture of Marsha P. Johnson. That was the only other thing that I can remember from being younger, just that picture. JM: Could be a pretty deep cut in the queer community if you're not a lot of people. That's one of the pivotal things they have to learn about is Stonewall and stuff like that. Because of that photo, did you know about Stonewall growing up? AI: I knew a little bit about it. I still don't know much about it, honestly. JM: Has your relationship with your family changed due to your queer identity? AI: No, not really. JM: I figured we got that one. You stayed in Ogden, right? So, this question we ask: how has Northern Utah been different from other places that you've lived? Not as applicable to you since you've lived here your whole life, but specifically in Northern Utah, have you noticed any differences in places you traveled? AI: Oh, yeah, I actually just went to Oregon and I feel like there was a lot more representation just throughout the city and other places surrounding it. I just saw a lot more queerness, in general, just being represented throughout. You don't see that a lot here. Everywhere had a gay pride flag and all that stuff. That sort of thing, you just don't really see that as much. JM: The feelings that you have from that were good feelings? Did it feel more accepting? AI: Yeah. It felt way more accepting because I felt more comfortable. JM: You mentioned the pride flags. Do you feel that was part of what made it feel more accepting? AI: Yeah. I don’t know, the people as a whole just kind of felt more welcoming. 45 JM: You said Oregon. I'm assuming Portland area? AI: Yeah. JM: This is always a thought-provoking one. Is there anything that you would say to your younger self if you got the chance? AI: My gosh. It’s a lot. JM: Maybe you need help narrowing it down, the follow-up question is: is there anything you would say to others going through similar situations you faced? If you want to make it more broad as well. AI: I think I would just say, “You only have yourself, so you got to learn to love it for who you are, just regardless of what other people think.” JM: Echoing AP’s words. AI: Yes. JM: If it helped you; it might help others. Is there anything else you would like to share or add to your story before we close? AI: No. JM: Perfect. This one is, of course, iffy because it's very hard to [stay in touch with] people. Would you be willing to be re-interviewed five or ten years in the future, if we could find you? AI: Yeah, if you can find me. JM: Raegan? Any questions you have in wrapping up? RB: None. JM: Okay. Thank you so much. AI: Yeah. Thank you. 46