Oral History Program J. Victor Liefson Interviewed by Joyce Slye 20 July 1972 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah J. Victor Liefson Interviewed by Joyce Slye 20 July 1972 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. 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These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Liefson, J. Victor, an oral history by Joyce Slye, 20 July 1972, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with J. Victor Liefson. The interview was conducted on July 20, 1972, by Joyce Slye, in the location of 263 East Center, Spanish Fork, Utah. Mr. Liefson discusses his knowledge of Icelandic history and genealogy as well as his own experiences and knowledge of immigration of the Icelandic people into Spanish Fork, Utah. JS: This is an interview of J. Victor Liefson by Joyce Slye on July 20, 1972, for the Weber State College Oral History Program. This interview is being conducted at Mr. Liefson’s home at 263 East Center, in Spanish Fork at 3:00 in the afternoon. Mr. Liefson let's start where we discussed, maybe have you give us a brief review of the colonization of Iceland, its heritage and customs. VL: The settlement of Iceland originated by or was originally done by Vikings from Norway. Norway at this time was ruled by petty kings. Each little settlement had a king or was a kingdom of its own and the ruler over that was called a petty king. Denmark at this same time had one king over the entire country. One of these petty kings in Norway became enamored with a pretty girl and she was as ambitious as she was beautiful and she told him that she wouldn't marry him until he became a king like the king of Denmark. And to accomplish this he began subjugating lesser kingdoms around him and of course in so doing other kings, realizing that they too would be subjugated decided that they would leave. One of these, Ingolfar Arnarsson and his step brother loaded up their ships with all their belongings and the step brother even took some slaves with him. They left Norway and probably there was no objection to this because Ingolfar was about to be deported anyway because of an uprising that he had part in. They left Norway and 1 came to Iceland. In choosing his place of abode Ingolfar decided to throw the pillars from the side of his throne overboard, wooden pillars and agreed that where ever they came ashore that's where he would settle. It was some months later before he found these pillars but it happened to be near Rejkyavil which is now the Capital City and there he settled. His stepbrother settled not too far away and eventually the sieves of this stepbrother murdered him. When Ingolfar found out about this he went in pursuit of these slaves end those that weren't killed were forced to jump over the cliffs into the ocean or into the canyons and eventually the sieves were killed. At the time these two settled in Iceland there were some Irish Monks already living there, a few, but being unarmed and probably outnumbered they were driven away. Now this was the beginning of the settlement of Iceland in the year 874. As years passed others began to come and colonize there end the thinkers decided and could see that possibly the same thing that existed in Norway would likewise come to pass in Iceland where one would become powerful and would start subjugating others around them and turmoil would be the result. So in the year 930, after a lot of deliberation no doubt, and thought by the thinkers and wise men among them, they met on a plain in the center of the country and that plain is called Thing Vettler- Thing Plain. In this plain at the bottom of the cliff is a large grass sward and the acoustics in that plain, history tells us, was so that the speakers who stood on a ledge on the cliff could be heard by the people who were congregated around underneath. It was understood before meeting that they come unarmed and with the idea in mind of formulating a form of government which would be for lasting peace. And the outcome of this meeting, the decision was to divide the island which is oblong in shape, into four sections as one would cut a pie into four sections 2 and at this time the individual or people from each section were instructed to go to their homes and hold s popular election and elect representatives to meet together as a group. This first division where the four sections was called the Thing and when the four representatives from the various Things met together, that was called the Allthing and that was where the name Allthing originated. In the year 950 the Allthing as hundreds of years later was established in England. Now these men went home and a popular election was held and they voted on representatives from the various Things. They met at the Allthing. At this first Allthing they all met together and the President over the whole country had not been selected but it was left up to them to vote and select a president, which they did. The president was selected for four years and each Thing was divided into the one-third and two-thirds majority so the Allthing is today in as near as possible numbers two-thirds and one-third. If it cannot be divided by three then the extra is left into the lower house or as we have it, the congress. This plan proved very effective and was in effect for years and years but then Norway lost control of Iceland and other colonies to Denmark. This condition existed until Denmark could see that this colony is Iceland was worth considering and they placed certain restrictions on it and called it a colony of theirs. But, in the year 1262 Norway and Denmark had their big war and Norway was defeated. At that time Denmark took possession of Iceland and Greenland and the other colonies and they were a colony of Denmark from then on for hundreds of years. But, for only a little short period did the Allthing cease complete functioning. They made their laws and if they suited the Danes okay and if they didn't they didn't recognize them anyway. The condition existed to the point where they had to export their goods to Denmark and to import Danish products. Sometimes the margin 3 between them was so small it led to poverty and that together with the black plague that came and volcanic eruptions reduced the island to practically rank poverty. Volcanoes erupted and killed so many of the sheep and cattle and the horses. Then with the famine and disease the population was depleted very heavily, to the point where there was no immigration from Iceland. That went on for many years and even today immigration is somewhat lower than you would expect it, from other countries. Education in Iceland is something that is to be desired in any nation. There is no illiteracy in the country. They stress education so heavily. First, in the home when the children are little they try to give them a home education and then when they go to school and to the elementary school they must go to school until they reach the age of fifteen. As they go through their elementary schooling, by the time they become fifteen they must know two foreign languages. That makes them linguists in the sense that they can speak three languages. At this point, through conditions conducive to this, many of the students, instead of going to college, go to trade tech schools. One reason for this is that in their colleges those who get a degree in teaching, dentistry, medicine, or law or so on, their replacement percentage later on is so small because the population doesn't increase very heavily and they are established for a lifetime so to speak. The country is growing industrially by leaps and bounds and any craftsman is assured of a position. In the summertime when the days were long, they even work as high as two shifts a day, and there is still a shortage of craftsmen of all kinds. That condition of course we don't have here because there is so much turnover because of the increase in population. But they do go very strongly on education. There are nine times as many books per capita published in Iceland as there is in England. And these books are not just published to 4 be looked at but to be read. Every Icelander of any consequence, if he can possibly afford it has a library room. Not a large one of course but a room. Probably on three sides of this room are bookshelves and probably in this room is a desk and a chair and couch and an easy chair. There he spends his * time in the long winter nights reading. Oh, so much reading in the home a loud at night for the childrens1 sake. So naturally they grow up with a love for books. When proceeding this pert the author felt that he got a little in head of himself. The colonies first changed hands during the war in 1262 rather than as stated above. And when an Icelander gives someone a book it is like giving from the heart. Their books are not cheap books. They are really educational. They are not paperbacks, very few paperbacks did I see in the bookstores there. Then I say bookstores, there are bookstores and bookstores and bookstores. Not just a few books on a shelf like we have here in our drugstores, but they are bookstores. Many of those who go through college go to Europe and to America hereto continue their education, like dentists and doctors. Doctors, in my acquaintance have been here to the Mayo Clinic in New York to finish their education to make them more professional in their field. It's a pleasure to meet these people and converse with them and feel how educated they are. Their customs there are likewise something to be desired. It was customary there upon meeting an individual to be greeted with, "God Bless you. How do you do and God bless you." Which term I heard used more than any other, the expression was God bless you and they mean it. They don't hesitate in entering into a conversation. In a city of ninety thousand there I didn't hesitate to stop on a street and address myself to a man, introduce myself and enter into a conversation. And they didn1 t seem to bother about being stopped. In ending the conversation it would be you 5 and not he who would end the conversation. They're so polite and that holds true in the homes as well. One young cousin of ours there who sent to England for two years to finish his business education, now is manager or part-owner of a department store. While there he met an English girl and they feel in love and she came back to Rejkavike as his wife. Our first visit with them they had a daughter three years of age and like all children she would be through before the adults and she would sit there quietly, not in fear but in respect. When an opening in the conversation came she would ask to be excused. In the Icelandic, “Jeger buinn Ma eg bidja ach af soka?” (Reply) “Sanartega.” (Child’s reply) “bakka beir fjrir og bakk fyrir Matinn.” In other words; “I am through, may I ask to be excused?” Then answered by the parents, "certainly." Then her reply: "Thank you, and thanks for the food and then get down. Another uncle there, eighty-four years of age, having a son and a daughter-in-law with three grandchildren living upstairs in a big home they had anticipated to fill with children, no doubt. This son and daughter-inlaw were living upstairs and they would come a hall or stairway into a common hall. Naturally the children going out on an errand, out to play, or out to school, but never would they go out if they could hear the grandparent anywhere but what they would go to the grandparent, approach him with a courtesy and shake hands and then kiss the grandparent on the cheek. Likewise the son a year old college professor, would come down of an evening, sometimes his wife too, and would visit there end sing songs. We would play the organ. The organ, but the way is the favorite of the older people; the younger people have the piano as we. Before going upstairs to go to bed, not going out of doors but just to go up to go to bed he would walk over to his father, shake hands put his arm around his shoulder and kiss him on the cheek. Cheekish kissing is much more 6 prominent there than lip kissing but if you were going on a trip of course you would expect this. And at the table I've never seen this father of the household leave the table if it was only just for light refreshment, coffee and cake, but what he would walk over to his wife, put his arm around her shoulder, kiss her on the cheek and thank her for the lovely refreshments. If you are the guest of those people you are king. It used to embarrass me to have an elderly lady, possible years older than I, hasten to a door and open a door for me and bow and say (author did not translate) in other words if you will please, or a car or a gate. I wasn’t used to that kind of courtesy, and it rather embarrassed me but that's common there. At the table likewise, if you're the guest, you are asked to start the serving. There are some of the manners of these people. Low crime, including juvenile. Delinquency, is not a problem there. In the past thirty years there has been six murders committed in the entire country. And juvenile delinquency, is rare. Once in a while a boy will get out of hand, yes of course, it would be heaven if it wasn't. But it he breaks the law he goes to jail just like anyone else and remains there until the parents come and the problem is discussed and solved at that point, before he is released. He feels badly end it is possibly a stain on the life of the parents as well as on himself. And it isn't through fear of their adults but through respect that I don't think he commits that crime again. But the way, the jails there, in the evening, the doors are opened and the prisoners can go into town or go home for the evening but they must be back by midnight. If not the jail doors are locked then they can’t get in but that of course goes against the record and he is that much longer getting released from the punishment of that crime. There is no danger either. I've seen young women walking along on the street maybe alone or with another friend. They don't seem to be afraid in 7 their city of ninety thousand. There's nothing to be afraid of. Crime is so rare. Religion in Iceland is unique in this way that 94% of the entire population are members of the Evangelical Lutheran Church, and that is the state religion. There are, in this other 6% all other religious denominations included. So it is a very small minority that are not Evangelical Lutherans. At one time a Catholic was appointed as bishop of the entire country. A Catholic priest and they didn't take too kindly to that. Consequently they murdered him and burned down his church. From then on Icelanders were chosen as bishops of the country. Our L.D.S. people, their contact with the church came through two young men who were in Denmark, in Copenhagen learning trades, serving their apprenticeship and they became converted to Mormonism and as they went back, this one was an elder (priest) and the other a priest (teacher), they began postulating with the result that they converted some few. Well the Lutheran ministers could see that an encroachment was being made in their flocks so they rose up against it and the first couple who were married by an L.D.S. missionary there were thrown into jail and accused of co-habitation. Consequently the saints wrote to the king of Denmark and in as much as the people of Denmark had religious freedom they acquainted him of the situation and he wrote back and instructed those there in authority that if the couple had been married by an ordained minister they would have to recognize the marriage, which they reluctantly did. But the Icelandic people or L.D.S. people of Icelandic decent, in general left the mainland and settled on the Westmann Islands, islands off the west coast of Iceland and they were supposedly the king’s personal property. And inasmuch as religious freedom was given in Denmark they did receive some more consideration there in the Westmann Islands. Most of the people who came from Iceland here to Utah 8 came from the Westmann Islands. This first couple who came was Samuel Bearnson and his wife Margaret who came to Salt Lake and with them an unmarried young women by the name of Helga. The church authorities in Salt Lake asked them to go to Spanish Fork and settle and the reason was the church authorities knew that Iceland was under the protectorate of Denmark and they thought that the Icelanders and the Danes would assimilate, which was contrary to what happened. The Danes had already established themselves in the Northeast part of Spanish Fork. The Welch had already established themselves in the Northwest and in the Southwest which was at that time supposedly the choice part of the city area, the English in general had settled. Then of course that left the Southeast corner for the Icelanders which at the present time we all know is one of the choice areas. So that was how come they came here. The Icelanders even had a little church. They built a little church on 6th East between 1st and 2nd south and held meetings in their native language. Sunday School and Sacrament meeting and other gatherings which they had were conducted in the Icelandic language. It was my privilege to be raised in the Southeast corner, my parents lived up there. By the way, when I say my parents I mean my father and mother and my grandmother. My grandfather and grandmother, in Iceland when the missionaries came to them my grandfather would have nothing to do with it. My grandmother became converted quickly and she joined the church. This led to a separation of my grandfather and grandmother. They had twin boys. I don't know how come but my grandmother came away with my father and my grandfather took my father’s twin brother. This twin brother died at the age of 10fr and my father and he never saw each other after the separation. My grandmother went to the Westmann Islands and stayed there and my father likewise 9 and he came here when he was a young man. He must have been somewhat industrious to be able to finance his trip here, first to Mountain in North Dakota and then the next spring to Spanish Fork. Then after a year and a half he sent for his mother and she came here. My grandmother is buried here in Spanish Fork. My grandfather is buried in Iceland, and the kin that we have in Iceland are through a second marriage of my grandfather. It's been such a pleasure to meet these people that we have gone back four times to Iceland just to meet and mingle with these people. They're just like all other Icelanders but then in recent letter I received two days ago, an aunt of mine says we're looking forward to you're coming again. We can't get them to come here because they are elderly and don't feel that they are equal to it. Does that cover it? JS: Oh, I think that sounds marvelous. A couple of questions I'd like to know about. You mentioned your father stopped in Dakota and then came on to Spanish Fork, what did he do to make a living here? VL: He was a carpenter. (In Dakota) he worked on the farms. He worked in farming there, harvesting in the fall of the year. By the way a snake showed up in the field there and he was chasing this to catch it, because there are no snakes in Iceland. They have eels but there are no snakes. They stopped him and said now don't you touch that, that'll kill you. To him it was just a meal. They have no snakes in Iceland. JS: He became a carpenter? VL: His father was a carpenter. Like I said he took up carpentry here and worked at that all his life. JS: Are any of the homes he built in Spanish Fork still standing? 10 VL: Oh, yes. I can go around (and show you some), he and another man, Eric Hanson, both Icelanders. I can go around and pick out several homes they both built. JS: It would be interesting to see those. Another thing you mentioned the last time we talked was your father’s love for books and that he borrowed a book from a man. Tell us that story. VL: I've been asked to tell of my father’s love for books. There was an Icelanders Reading Library here, circulating library. He and others subscribed to this library. He was such an avid reader that I guess he had read several of the books over and over. He knew of an Iceland man in Thistly, above Thistle, who had a library and was sure there were books there he hadn't read. So one winters day, I just a little shaver, walked with him two miles East of our home to what was called the Mapleton Depot. We got on the Sanpete Train there at Mapleton and rode up to Thistle and visited with another Iceland man who worked there for the railroad in Thistle. From there we went on up Spanish Fork Canyon 5/4s of a mile to the home of John Thorgerson. My father borrowed six books from Mr. Thorgerson. We walked back down to Thistle and visited with this other Iceland man, had dinner and took the train back to Mapleton and walked from Mapleton to our home which was two miles west. In the meantime, on the way up from Thistle to this Thorgerson1s home, in the snow I saw an iron protruding and I picked it up and it turned out to be a monkey wrench, a steel monkey wrench. I showed it to my father and he said “when we get up to John Thorgerson’s maybe he can tell us whose it is.” The name Harold was stenciled on the handle. He told us that it must belong to some individual, a brakeman or a fireman, that it wasn't railroad property at all. My father said "what'll I do with it?" He says, "Nothing that I can tell you. It's yours, you found it." So when we got 11 back down to Thistle the question was asked of this Mr. Johnson. He likewise said "That's a private individual’s wrench. If you found it, it's yours." But the thing that brings this to my mind so vividly was as soon as I found it my father insisted I carry it, and it weighed five pounds. By the time I'd carried it up to John Thorgerson’s and back down to Thistle and from Mapleton to Spanish Fork I had wished a hundred times I had never seen it. And I still have that wrench and that would be over 70 years ago. In the winter time my father used to read aloud to the family. I being the oldest, or the only one who could understand because the children, the other two, were so much younger. I sat on his lap and followed him as he read. And in as much as there are no dead letters in the Icelandic language, when I saw a word pronounced and we were speaking the language, I knew what it meant and through repetition it got to the point where I could do some Icelandic reading before I went to grade school, but I couldn't read English. I guess through that experience of reading with my father, I had developed, like he, a love for books which has stood me in good stead now because when I get tired of reading my English books I can turn to my Icelandic books and it’s as good as a rest for my mind to change from one language to the other. And it was a source of much surprise for our people back in Iceland when they found we could both speak and read the Icelandic language. And when I say we, my sister Dorothy Bearnson has gone with me on one of the four trips that we have made back there. Through the ability to read, I was given, by the individuals back there books which I have brought back with me exceeding my luggage allowance each time and have accumulated some very fine books. Some that will be priceless as the years go by because of the nature of the books. 12 JS: I've just asked Mr. Liefson to talk about the development of Spanish Fork. We thought maybe we'd talk about the homes and the way people lived. VL: As a youth, I remember many people not only Icelandic people but others who lived in what are called dugouts. They would dig like they were digging a basement for a home at the present time, down into the ground maybe four feet or so end then they would cover this with poles and willows and sod on top. The walls of course were dirt, so was the floor. There would be a gable on each end, one end the stairway would go down into the home. On the other end of the gable would be a window for light and for ventilation. Everyone had a ¼ of a city block at that time, that was standard to buy a 12x12 rod or a ¼ of a city block. Many owned two and some owned an entire city block, because many had cattle and horses and there were farmers end they had haystacks and corrals on their lots. Property was cheap but I sometimes wonder if it was as cheap as we think it was because in comparison to what their wages were at that time, a dollar a day was standard wages for a lot of work, but the people cooperated and helped each other, and those who had teams and wagons would go up to the canyon after wood end that wood was cut up for fire wood, not only for the winter but the summer as well. When coal mines were opened up, they would go up to the coal miles for a load of coal. Of course when the railroads came in and transportation was so much cheaper by railroad that illuminated the coal, but they would still go to the canyon for what was called summer wood. Their homes gradually evolved from the dugouts to homes completely on top of the ground in the early days, framed homes, yes, or adobe homes. There were two adobe yards in the vicinity of Spanish Fork, one on the Southeast of Spanish Fork and one on the Northeast. The one in the Northeast where so much clay 13 was dug out is still in evidence. These adobe homes of course, no doubt, were just adobe outside and inside. Then as things progressed they were plastered on the inside and then on the outside. Probably some of those in the early days were dirt floors but they gradually improved to the point where instead of adobe homes, frame homes were built. Then later came brick homes as products evolved from one stage to another. Not large homes of course to begin with, a home just large enough to eat end to sleep in. And probable sleeping was somewhat cramped at the time. Many were just two roomed homes. Then the next thing was to build a shanty as we called it or a "lean-to" on the back of these homes, because that was one wall already built. So they had just the three walls to build and a flat roof on them. First of course, in the early days, with the dugouts, it was poles and willows and the sod roofs but that of course was later replaced by wood shingles, which were manufactured here nearby. We had shingle mills up here in our canyon here where shingles were made. Then came planning mills where the lumber was finished. I have a memory of my father sitting up with workbench under an apple tree end a nail driven in a limb on the apple tree where the water bucket was held and a dipper. He would work in the shade of this apple tree planning these boards, one by one, and making moldings for the cornices to decorate the homes. In fact, I have some of his wooden planes and some that he even made himself. Some that I remember seeing he and Ben Ranoldson’s in the wintertime forging out the bits, the steel bits, for these places and making the wooden stock themselves. They are in various shapes according to the moldings that were to use to plane out. In those days, of course, all the heating was done by coal or wood. And in the wintertime, carpenters were limited because when he did start to plaster the lime plaster was sand and limes 14 mixed. Then later came what is called hard wall, but that could not be used where it was freezing and not having furnaces in the homes in the winter time this work was somewhat curtailed. What they would do inside without hear of course but that wasn't as pleasant as what it is today when carpenters work all the time, year around in the temperatures they desire, just set thermostat themselves. These brick homes evolved from maybe the two room brick homes up to the larger ones and to the mansions that were and are being built out of brick. In the early days, butcher shop weren't as handy to go to as they are now, and every farmer had grain to raise and to fatten his pigs. He'd have pigs for pork and this pork was either salted or smoked. To cure it, or salt it, it was put down in brine end likewise beef had to be put in brine to keep it. Naturally there was a lot of boiling meat used in those days because after putting it in brine, it didn't lend itself to steaks and roasts. The same with mutton. They raised their own mutton but when one neighbor killed, it was customary to use as much of that fresh meat as possible by taking roasts and steaks and so on to the neighbors and all sharing. Then when the neighbor killed they were favored in the same way. In that way they were able to have fresh meat so much more than if they tried to use it all themselves. If they tried to use it all themselves they'd have to either smoke it or put it in brine. And as time went on eventually a butcher shop was common, but they didn't have refrigeration except ice. They would cut ice and there were two mill ponds, one North and one South of Spanish Fork. In the wintertime they’d cut ice and store it in icehouses, packed with sawdust to keep it from melting. These icehouses were just like huge barns. And the ramp up from the pond into the ice-house was used to fill these ice-houses. One icehouse north of town here, 6-7 blocks north of my home here, when I was a boy, caught fire. And the 15 outside walls and the rook got burned and yet these was huge stack of ice left intact. It had melted on the outside, yes, but this was in the winter time and that froze. I guess they salvaged what they could of that ice. They had bunkers above the meat boxes and had this ice stored on top of the ceiling of their meat boxes. A lot of the meat was smoked in smoke houses. Different individuals, some private and some who did custom smoking would have a smoke fire underneath and thus hams and shoulders and that kind pf meat hanging there in the smoke houses. The meat was smoked so that it kept indefinitely. Naturally when fruit trees were bearing, oh so much fruit was put up, bottled by the women. Not only fresh fruit that was bottled but Jams end Jelly’s and what we call preserves. I remember my mother having a shelf in what was called the fruit cellar. And gallons and gallons of jars were filled with preserves. We had plenty of butter too, but it tasted better to us children to have preserves on our bread or maybe some good fresh cream and sugar sprinkled on it, instead of having butter. Eggs, of course, were plentiful. Everyone had a few chickens and farmers had grain. Some of those who didn't have farms hired out to farmers and would take wheat or hay for their livestock instead of wages. It was common to receive pay in kind such as in wheat or hay or something of that sort. And this wheat was taken to the mill, the flour mill. As they needed flour they would draw out of this stock of wheat that they had, the flour that they needed. So many things in common were carried on where one worked to help the other. Will that cover it? JS: That covers that real well. I've just been thinking, what were some things you did for recreation with all this hard work? 16 VL: Just like the saints crossing the plains, recreation was something to be desired. For recreation, our main recreation in the winter time was skating and sledding. There was plenty, in these millponds and in the fields where the water stood, there was plenty of skating ponds. Dancing was a very favorite form of recreation in Spanish Fork. During the Christmas holidays and New Year holidays, one could go to a dance every night. A dance sponsored by the various clubs and the various nationalities, the Danish, and the Norwegian, and the Swedish and the Welsh and so on. Each would have a. night scheduled for a dance and everybody would go. So dancing before the picture show was one of the main diversions for the young as well as the old. Now they were not just young, all of them that danced, I know some of the old fellows there that could dance the Danish Swift and Virginia Reel, Shottish and the Jewel, the Hesitation, the Rye Waltz and the Baltimore and some of those set dances just as fast as any of the youngsters. And they got just as much enjoyment out of it. JS: Do you think that they were as wild as some of the dances today? VL: Well, I don't hardly think so. Of course the first that came was the silent picture. And when they were changing films some good singer sang during the interlude. Various means were used to keep the audiences entertained. The first movie held, and it was silent, held in the Lutheran Church, in middle of the block above eighth east on Center Street. The show equipment was owned by a man by the name of H. J. Mortenson and carbide tips and batteries were used to generate the spark to show the picture and the first picture that I saw there was of a railroad train coming down the track. People up in front, they jumped out of the road so they wouldn't get run over with this train. 17 JS: What about the first car? Do you remember anything about the first car in Spanish Fork? VL: Well the first cars that came to town, I believe, were owned by a Doctor Stoddard, and a foundry man by the name of Larsen. They were cranked from the side. The running board on the side had a crank place where the car was cranked and the lights were car bide lights. There was no electricity on them. They were something of a novelty to say the least. People would go for blocks to see that car come. Are you recording all this? JS: Yes, you bet. I'd like to go back just a little but now to when the Icelanders first came to Spanish Fork. Maybe none of this existed but I am curious to know that since there were problems apparently between the Danish and the Icelanders, if they had any problems intermingling one the Icelanders got to Spanish Fork. VL: Sort of a problem, yes. The fact that the Icelanders who came couldn't speak English, in general. They were somewhat, I think, rather looked down on and weren't given the status that the English had and things of that sort. But through the love of education, the Icelandic students, and I could name any number of them, were tops in their classes and through their ability and their excellence, they took some of that away and were looked up to. They had that love for learning and they did learn. Even the Elementary State Superintendent of schools, Lofter Bearnson, was an Icelander. They have always loved learning and that I'm sure erased some of the, I hate to say stigma that they were held in by others. But I guess the English and the Danish and the Welch were clannish among each other. When I was a boy and growing up, when we went downtown for an evening we'd go down in a crowd so we wouldn't get the devil beat out of us. If we had a big crowd why they respected us. So to speak, we fought our way down and fought our 18 way back. The Icelanders loved music. Some of course did, and I'm not taking anything away from the Welch. The Welch did and still love music. One of the noted soloists in our town was Ellen Jameson. Though she was Lutheran, she went to so many Mormon services just as fully as she did for the Icelandic, Lutheran or any other. Her sister, Hose, was her accompanist. The Jameson family were musicians. Many others, I hate to start mentioning names because I'm going to be criticized for leaving so and so out. But they did love music. They loved art, and they loved literature, and they loved music, anything with an educational nature and they took their place and became teachers as well as students. So possibly the Welch and the Danish had their differences in their part of town and we had ours in our part of town. JS: Do you remember any stories of any particular differences that occurred? VL: Well, yes, I can, especially one. At a celebration down here at the City Park, where most of the celebrations were held, there was a man here, had quite a reputation as a wrestler. He asked anybody to meet him in a wrestling match and he kinda coaxed Arvil Johnson, an Icelander. When this Argyle could see there was a possibility he aggravated it to the point where they squared off and the first thing that happened this Arvil Johnson picked this Argyle up and threw him down on his back and broke his collar bone and that ended that wrestle. JS: Were there any repercussions from the family? VL: Oh no. That was an affair between those two and that was that. He got what he asked for. He got a wrestling meet. 19 JS: It sounds like he got wrestled. I understand that they used to have Thrashing B’s and things like that? VL: Thrashing B’s yes. Naturally, that was a plan between them to help each other. One man couldn’t do all the work, pitching the separator and stacking the straw and things of that sort. So they would have Thrashing B’s. When they went to a home, and a lot was done here in the home, lots in the city, the women folks, I guess, it took them days to prepare the meals because thrashers worked hard and were hungry. They ate a lot and they worked days to prepare meals. It was the responsibility of the one who was having the thrashing done to prepare the meals, breakfast, dinner, super, if it took all day. When they had, they had maybe 20 men there, it took a lot of preparing. They helped each other on the farm in their hay and in their grain and so on. At the beginning it was hay and grain, they later on came beets, then torn- tees, then peas, and corn and things of that sort. It took cooperation. One couldn1t do it, they didn't have the money to hire help and so they would help each other. It's been my privilege to see threshing progress from horse power thrashing machines to where a team of horses with a mechanism in the center and a shaft out from there would turn the gear arrangement and from that a long pipe from the gear arrangement to the thrashing machine. And that was the power to turn the separator that separated the straw from the grain. From that to the steam engine and from that to the modern harvester that goes right out in the field and does everything without any help. JS: I bet it's interesting to look back and think of the old ones. I noticed in the History of Spanish Fork they had several Indian scares. Did you hear anything about those? 20 VL: Yes, in the early years the Indians used to come in the fall of the year and they'd beg for food, bread and braua; that would be bread and flour. People would donate to them. They'd come with their wagons and their bags to put their flour in, and they'd get meat and fruit. Yes. They'd go from door to door and then they'd go out on their reservation and use that along with their other supplies for the winter. I remember one old Indian squaw coming to our home and my mother had one of the first sets of false teeth. In fact the first set that I had ever seen. This old Indian she came end she pointed to my mother’s mouth and all she did was flip her gums and drop her one set of teeth out and this old squaw was so overcome she slapped her knee and grabbed her papoose and out she went. In fact my wife's grandfather had an Indian who lived there with them in a chicken coop, an adobe chicken coop. He lived there for a number of years in their (near) home. It was common, of course in the early days, (for) the Indians used to come down here to Utah Lake and they'd catch fish and they’d smoke them and dry them, mostly dry them for winter's meat along with what they'd killed in the line of wild animals. JS: History gives the impression that they had a lot of trouble with the Indians at first. VL: Well, later on yes, there was. There were the Indian Wars, the Black Hawk and other Indian Wars. Indians got brave and they'd drive off some of the white people’s cattle. They had to fight to get their cattle back and some were killed in the Black Hawk Indian War. They have and organization, of course, none of the veterans of the Black Hawk Indian War are living today that I know of. But they had an organization called the Black Hawk Indian War Veterans. They celebrate each year in memory of those people. JS: You remember them as being quite friendly people? 21 VL: Well, in general, yes. They came begging. Oh they got over baring at times, no doubt, but in general they came with a friendly attitude because they were expecting help. JS: What about contributions of the Icelanders in Spanish Fork. VL: Many of the Icelanders in the building industry were Masons, carpenters and painters. In that line and as I stated before, musicians and school teachers. But they, a lot of them, partly qualified as craftsmen in the building industry. They built some of the finest homes and buildings here in Spanish Fork. Don't get me running away with myself and say that Icelanders were perfect. JS: I understand that this settlement here in Spanish Fork is quite unique. Is that true? VL: Spanish is unique in this sense, it is the oldest permanent Icelandic settlement in America, North and South as well. In 1955, before 1955, we anticipated celebrating the one hundredth anniversary of the settlement in Spanish Fork my Icelandic people. And consequently we started an investigation. We thought maybe some had gone to Canada first and settled there but that wasn't so. We thought some had gone to Alaska and established a settlement there but that didn't pan out. There was a book in the Icelandic library called (title in Icelandic) the Brazilian Expedition. Upon investigation we found out that one Icelander there with four daughters went down into Brazil end his wife died and he was left with these four daughters. He could see where they grew up they would be marrying Spanish or other men so he left and that ended that. So we were reasonable sure that Spanish Fork is the oldest permanent Icelandic settlement, continuous settlement in America. There's a lot more Icelanders in Canada than there are in Spanish Fork, as far as that goes, but we still hold the idea that we were the oldest. We're hoping that we won't be made out liars. Ripple, a columnist for the Sunday 22 Supplement of the paper, always did a column called "Believe it or Not." In one of his articles he had a picture of the Icelandic Monument up here and the caption was believe it or not a light house in the middle of the desert, which our lighthouse is. It's in the middle of a desert. It's a thousand miles from the nearest ocean. A light is supposed to be built on the shore to warn a ship from dangerous points or danger. So that was quite unique. It was recognized by him as being of that nature. JS: It was built by the original people to commemorate these Icelanders? VL: It was built to commemorate the first Icelandic settlement in Spanish Fork,, and their names are on a plaque on the monument up there now, in the Southeast corner of town, as you come into town (from Price). And there is supposed to be a light burning in there all the time as there is in lighthouses over the world. They have a lighthouse keeper to maintain the light to warn either in case of fog or darkness or danger that this lighthouse is pointing out. JS: There is one thing I'm curious about and I'd like to have you explain is the names of the Icelanders. You mentioned that they connect son and daughter to them or they used to anyway. VL: Well, the Icelandic people even today take the name of the father. It the father's name was Peter, his children would either by Peter's sons or Peter's daughters. That of course is prevalent in other Scandinavian countries even today. Now I have a cousin in Iceland who is Bryrjar Thor Liefson. His name is Gunnerson, but instead of being Gunnerson, he took the name of Liefson. But his father’s given name is Leitur so instead of Gunnerson he is Liefson. This way we contacted him, my son Thor Liefson filled a mission for the Church in France and we had had trouble in tracing the 23 genealogy of my mother. We made arrangements for Thor to stop over in Iceland on his way home and see what he could in the line of getting some genealogy. There was a Lutheran man here end his wife and son, stopped with us for three days. In the summer he always traveled either to Iceland or different parts of the United States. This summer he traveled to Canada, down to the coast and up through the parks in Utah and Arizona. He stopped here and I told him that I had a son who was a minister or missionary for the L.D.S. Church whom I wanted to get some genealogy if I could. And this gent said in a very fine manner, I have some friends in Iceland whom I am sure would help your son. I don't have their names and addresses with me but when I get back to Dakota (this man is the director of Norse Languages in the University of North Dakota) he said, I'll send them to you, which he did. A manila envelope came and in it were two sealed envelopes end addresses on those and together with that a greeting to me thanking me for the hospitality he had received here. I sent these letters (to Thor) to him with the instructions that he ought to insert an ad in one of the daily papers there, asking for help in tracing this genealogy. I gave him my name, my father’s name and my grandfather’s name. If he could get some help from that line it would be appreciated. One of the names of the two that were sent to me turned out to be none other than the Director of the Bureau of Statistics for the entire country, which wasn't to be sneezed at. And when my son showed these letters (to him) they worded for him an insertion for the paper in Icelandic asking for assistance in this genealogy, if possible. One lady reading the piece became impressed and called her husband who had a meat and grocery business in the city. They Lived out in the country always, (She asked husband) is he'd seen the morning paper and he said ,"No I haven't." She said, "You know I feel 24 impressed that that's some of my kin." "Well," he said, "Who don't you get in touch with them, you have the address." So my son was staying at a home where a young lady could speak both English and Icelandic and this lady called and introduced herself to this end told her that she was impressed and thought that this was some kin of hers. Of course the girl talked to my son and the outcome was that they made an appointment for Thor to meet this other lady's son and he was to take a certain bus and this other lady’s son would be there to meet him. That all worked out and when Thor got off the bus, a young man walked up to him and pointed to himself and said, "Jeger Thor Liefson." Thor said, "No, I'm Thor Liefson." The outcome was they were both Thor Liefson, cousins, and they'd never seen each other, never knew of the existence of each other. Thor could speak no Icelandic and this fellow could speak very little English. But the outcome was they met and this is one of the people we go back to visit. This Iceland boy was named Thor Liefson, my sons name was Thor Eldon Liefson, but they both had two, one surname and one given name the same. Then we later contacted other people and we're very happy that it turned out as it did. I've been asked to mention about the superstitious of the Icelandic people and I believe outside of the Tahitians and possibly Hawaiians and some South Pacific people, they are almost as superstitious as they are because they live with the roughest part of nature. Volcanoes, geysers, fierce windstorms from the ocean and likewise earthquakes. Not all are serious when it comes to earthquakes like we find in some other places. Iceland is situated on the extreme northern end of the Atlantic ridge of mountains of Atlantic Volcanic Ridge which runs zigzag through the Atlantic Ocean up into Iceland. Iceland itself is the result of volcanic eruptions, the same as the South Pacific Islands. They are situated on the 25 Pacific ridge, Pacific Volcanic Ridge and Hawaii and the other South Pacific Islands are eruptions of volcanoes from that ridge. So the same conditions existed in Iceland and for that reason the Icelandic people in general built concrete homes that are reinforced so there will be no damage from the volcanoes. (Earthquakes) Through these volcanoes and geysers and nature at its extreme it's natural that they are somewhat superstitious and old legends and stories (developed.) They believe in what we call spirits , Huld Foilk, which is spooks and spirits and ghosts and things of that sort. Although there are hazards, it's a blessing too because living on this volcanic ridge, having so many geysers and hot springs, they have learned to harness and make use of those things. The city of Reykivak, a city of ninety thousand, receives hot water in huge insulated pipes which are made in concrete troughs, so to speak, on insulation material and then covered with insulation and then covered on top with concrete blocks that slope to the outside end sealed so the water doesn't get in to damage this insulation. For twelve miles the source of their heat comes from this hot water reaching the homes at 154 degrees Fahrenheit, and is used for all household purposes, heating, washing, except for finer cooking. When it comes to pastries and things of that sort they heat their water electrically for that. And then when they extract what heat they want out of their water for heating their homes, it goes out into greenhouses. In the one home that we stayed in in Iceland, a large home, it had even two small apple trees growing in the greenhouse. The greenhouse was a huge glass building and they had what they wanted in the line of fruits and vegetables in this greenhouse. One town called Firetown about 29 miles from the city of Reyjavik, there are acres and acres and acres of greenhouses and you'll find greenhouses scattered throughout the country and you'll 26 find that hot water is used to furnish the heat for these greenhouses. It was our privilege and I have pictures showing oranges, avocadoes, grapes and bananas growing and flowers and vegetables of all kinds in these greenhouses but not outdoors because the season is too short to mature these things. The only outdoor vegetables they raise there are rutabagas and carrots and turnips and potatoes and all they raise are those things that they need to supply the needs of the country. Otherwise their ground is used for the raising of meadow hay. They cannot raise alfalfa there because with 54" of rain fall a year, which would be A times as much as we have here. We had our first crop hap largely damaged with what raid we had here but; with 54 of rainfall it would be impossible to raise alfalfa here. Even there at times the meadow hay, when the season is exceptionally rainy, they dry their hay with electricity. They have huge heaters and fans plowing into and under a conveyor. A wide conveyor conveys this meadow hay up into their barns and this heat, underneath, as this hap goes slowly up the conveyor, it dries out. Otherwise in general they are able to dry it in the field and bale it and stack it that way. In the four trips what I have made back to Iceland I have only seen one garden hose. It was really a garden hose. It laid across the man’s lawn and the water was running into a little cabbage patch that he had planted there on his lot, there where he lived. So it was a garden hose. They don't anticipate watering their lawns there, they have plenty without. And there as I mentioned, the hot water is so economical. In fact an uncle of mine, in gathering his utility bills, I asked him what they were and he showed me his bill. It was made out just like we have ours here. At the top of the list was electricity and his electricity bill for the month was one dollar. And I said,"a dollar." "Oh yes," he said, "They charge us a dollar whether we use it or not," he said "My meter only 27 read .75 this last month. His water bill was $3.25 and that included the hot and the cold water. They have their cold water lines separate from the hot water line. Their cold water comes from springs and is filtered no doubt through lava and consequently very soft. You don't need hand lotions there. That's the reasons those Icelandic girls there have that peach and cream complexion. It comes natural to them because of the water they use. The fact that this electricity bill was only $1.00 is because all their electricity there is hydro-electric. They have so many waterfalls there, I have pictures to show, that generate their electricity. Once a plant is installed there is no upkeep, no expense so to speak and that is why their electricity is so cheap. They have electrical power there for Thousands of years so to speak. In fact a unique experience that had was two years ago. "They were working a huge aluminum factory, on the bay there and the pier ran out so that the ships could dock alongside the pier there. They were shipping Bauxite ore from Europe, shipping it there to Iceland to have it processed into Aluminum. They would process it and ship it back to Europe cheaper than they could process it alone in Europe. This huge electric generating plant there gives them capacity that is practically unlimited. In walking through the storage yard with the yard master, I said "How much aluminum have you got her in storage?" He said, "Oh I can't tell you. It's between 25 and 25 thousand ton that is waiting for shipment. And aluminum as light as it is, that's a lot of aluminum. This is one of the things that makes it very interesting there. The waterfalls, the water that goes to waste there would be such a blessing to us here in Utah that Utah would blossom as a rose. The largest waterfall in Europe is located in Iceland and these waterfalls come from the mountainous areas in the middle of the country there from glaciers and ice fields that are continually running the year around. 28 The highest mountain there is 7,000 ft. above sea level. When you consider that you're starting practically from sea level, a comparison between us here in Spanish Fork and Mt. Timpanogos would be about on the same comparison. But much of the center of the country is mountainous and very little habitation. Iceland itself is nearly 290 miles long and 180 miles wide. Yet with that small an area her coastline is 3,900 miles because there are so many long deep fjords especially on the east and northern part of the country that go into the country such a long ways. The west coast is more plain and the ocean comes gradually up to the land there. But these deep Fjords they lend to very fine fishing facilities dock and pier. Boats have access to them and are sheltered. In fact in the one, (fjord there on the Northern coast of the country in a city call Aukereyri, three educators who came here last April to visit our schools as well as other schools here in the United States comparing methods, each agreed that the others had something’s worthwhile that might be added to their programs. Last Christmas I got a Christmas card from one of these educators whose schools was in the northern part of Iceland in the city of Aukereyri, commonly termed as the largest city. He said, "Oh we're enjoying this lovely weather. For days now it’s been 65 and 75.” Here we were enjoying one of the hardest winters we had had for years and years. It seems almost unbelievable. In general the climate is very moderate. The average temperature for the entire year for the city of Reykjavik, although as far north as it is, is one degree colder for the entire year than for New York City. One reason for this is the Gulf Stream crossing the Atlantic Ocean. It strikes the Southwest Coast of the country and envelops it and that has a warming effect on the country. And they the fact that it is so volcanic and so many geysers and streams coming up out of the ground likewise couldn't help having a 29 warming affect. You can go out in the country and see steam coming out of the ground (in many places). 30 INDEX I SUMMARY AND ANALYSIS OF PROJECT * I INTERVIEW I: J. VICTOR LIEFSON * I INTERVIEW II: MRS. ELIZABETH HALES V INTERVIEW Ills MRS. MARY ANDRUS AND MRS. SARAH HANSEN V INTERVIEW IV: MRS. ELEANOR JARVIS I INTERVIEW Vi PRES. BYRON GESLISON I PICTURES: MONUMENT, INTERVIEWEES, GRAVE MARKINGS, HOMES. I BIBLIOGRAPHY AN ORAL HISTORY OF THE ICELANDIC HISTORY OF SPANISH FORK Submitted in partial fulfillment of the requirements of the Weber State College Oral History Program by Joyce B. Slye on November 1, 1972 AN ORAL HISTORY OF THE ICELANDIC PEOPLE OFSPANISH FORK II. Project description "In I85I two Icelandic Mormons from Copenhagen came as missionaries to the Westmann Islands, southwestern Iceland. They succeeded in converting a few people. One of these became the first Icelandic immigrant to America. In I855 Thordur Thidriksson started out by way of Denmark and England for the Mormon settlements in Utah. . . The voyage across the Atlantic took seven weeks. Fifty people died but Thidriksson reached New York on March 7, 1856, and made his way thence overland. Icelandic colonists followed him and a small settlement was founded at Spanish Fork Utah." This small colony, which has the unique reputation for being the first permanent Icelandic settlement in the Americas, became by accident the topic of my oral history project. Accidentally, because was only through a chance conversation that I was ever aware of the local history concerned with this nationality and as I later found out my initial impressions gather from this brief conversation were incorrect. Rather than being a story of feudal struggles it was a very human history of determined folk to adapt to the hardships of a new way of life and discrimination by those who failed to understand. The above quote is typical of the recorded history that I found of this colony. This was one of three direct references made of the Spanish Fork colony. Of the other two one was a collection of brief biographies of early settlers by Kate Carter, and the other, a history of: Spanish Fork only mentioned the fact that a few Icelanders had settled here. This particular colony has been generally ignored by historians in preference to the expeditions into Brazil and Canada and other areas of the United States such as Minnesota and Nebraska. The words "first permanent have taken second chair to other more adventurous movements. This is understandable because the Canadian account records a struggle of greater consequence to its people. Physical endurance was apparently tried in extremes under adverse conditions of weather, soil infertility, political reversals of government, and at one time becoming a pawn for colonial efforts of both the Canadian and United States government. Although the Canadian government contributed material benefits to attract colonists, many or most settlements were eventually left uninhabited as were many in the U.S. as settlers left in search of more hospitable areas. It is of significance to note that although many settlements were only temporary it was not due to the weakness of the settlers. Miss Margaret McWilliams as well as other authors have made the following observation about their steadfastness. "The difficulties which this settlement encountered would have defeated a less sturdy people. . . Since I had to abandon my hopes for the more romantic history project other avenues had to be explored and there were many. The brief sketch of history above suggests 8 number of questions to be examined relative to my particular project, (footnote l) one concerned what national or personal conditions lead to immigration? How was the move made possible? What information would history contribute concerning their political and social heritage? What have been the consequences and advantages of geographical isolation and what effect if any did that have upon their ability to adapt to e new environment? What have been the results of political influence from Norway and especially Denmark? Why did Spanish Fork become the destination? Once the destination had been achieved how did assimilation take place? What were the physical conditions of their life? By what means did they make a living and gain a trade? What relationship existed between the Danes and the Icelanders here due to the political bondage at home? What were the religious influences? This is a list of basic questions that were initially suggested, as the project progressed, others became apparent. Such as, why have the Icelanders maintained a sort of duel patriotism while other nationalities have lost this identity? Icelanders continue to celebrate the founding of this settlement called Iceland Day, one of major significance was held in the 1950’s. They are also avid genealogists and I was curious as to their methods due to the naming process and the eventual change resulting from emigration although close ties with the mother country have been maintained. Of equal importance was information concerning customs and traditions Icelanders brought with them and continued to practice. They were and are an especially educated and literate people which trait seemed to contribute directly to their acceptance into the community. This was a particularly easy area to probe. Icelanders were and are proud of their customs and achievements. Their success in the community readily bears out the truth of this observation. The pursuit of excellence can be attested to in education carpentry and etc. Other questions pertained to personal and recall experiences as the occasion suggested. These came easier for some informants that for others but were always valuable. Without exception all informants were sensitive about misquoting, offending or leaving out someone involved with this history and were careful about what was said and how. So often I was instructed to turn off the tape recorder and listen to an experience they wanted me to hear but refused to tape because "someone might read this." I got the impression that the states and relationships acquired in Spanish Fork over the years came not without difficulty and sacrifice and they (especially the older generation) were not about to jeopardize it. Although, I feel too that I been the first to hear their story, but something about the tape and the word history posed a threat. In concluding this subject introduction may I use a quote that expresses the general opinion that has been expressed concerning this people. It includes some general exaggerations but I was impressed with the amount of truth there is about the motherland and those Icelanders I have become acquainted with. "The Icelanders are ... by all accounts, the most devout, innocent, pure-hearted people in the world. Crime, theft, debauchery, : cruelty, are unknown among them; they have neither prison, gallows, soldiers nor police; and in the manner of the liv2es they lead . . . there is something of a patriarchal simplicity. “(Lord Dufferin, 1856 governor general of Canada) II. Project analysis The need for personal preparation for the project became more apparent as the work progressed. Initially I felt prepared with essentially tittle research information. As completion approach I found myself wishing my efforts were only just beginning. At first research was difficult and rather unproductive but as I proceeded with each stage of work, new sources became available, especially human resources. Although this is bound to be true of all such projects future efforts would have more time spent in preparation not underestimating the value of any source until it has been investigated. I am aware that too much knowledge can also be harmful especially if improperly used, however informants expect some degree of literacy. Properly used knowledge lend an air of importance to the project and to the person being called upon for help. My first attempts lead to lengthy explanations sometimes unnecessary and irritation to the informant. Perhaps experience is another key factor. I found that with every informant there were certain aspects of Icelandic history I was expected to know and which they felt unnecessary to repeat but that were in my opinion essential to the dialogue. These items usually concerned local events or people that permanent citizens are generally aware of but "that newcomers like myself would not be familiar with. When pinned down to fact, my informants would supply information called for. More often than not things were alluded to either because the time and conversation made it inconvenient or because I was unable to capitalize on the moment. One such instance concerned a discussion of two Mormon missionaries in Iceland and their "objectionable conduct." Bro Liefson was hesitant to discuss the matter but a historian of more experience than myself may have achieved better success. This is true of the other topics in that discussion} a book called Paradise Regained is a good example. To him the book was a fraud written to deceive the reading public. He had little respect for the author due to "inconsistencies and untruths" written and stated about people here and in Iceland. He refused to discuss any of this on tape for fear of injury to local feelings and he did not want the local public aware of the book and its contents. I went immediately to the B»Y«U. and found a copy in the special collections section. It was a highly romanticized novel but I was not familiar enough with isolated historical events to pass judgment on its authenticity. It did pass on some rather colorful interpretations that would have been interesting to explore further. Bro. Geslison was familiar with the book end agreed that much of it was exaggerated but was unable to state specific instances. Others were generally unfamiliar with the book. Another weakness is very apparent in my project; the nature of the questions posed. Questions concerning early history and facts about Iceland raised few problems but those concerning local and personal history were more difficult. Since there was little information about the local history many of my questions were based on assumption or hearsay or picked up during interviews. I often had to rely on conversational clues for the next discussion topic. And since these questions could not be tested for reliance they often were poorly stated or/and misunderstood. I found this all too true when interviewing Mrs. Hales and Mr. Liefson. Mrs. Hales was especially patient but all too often we found ourselves misunderstanding the others statements which lead to repeating. Mr. Liefsons interview started so well that I found myself taking the success for granted. Rather than controlling the direction of the dialogue myself I allowed it to wonder. So, it would appear on the tape that except for my few mumbled attempts to question, he was conduction an interview of himself. Because of this many interesting items were left unexplored End other less important ones were discussed in depth. III. Analysis of individual tapes Bro. Liefson is to me the typical Icelander as I have come to know them. He is a widower with many self-imposed responsibilities. Before retirement he was a building contractor in good standing as were his father and grandfather. Since retirement he has served on the city council and a variety of city committees. At present he has resigned many of these responsibilities and has concentrated on genealogy and his own Icelandic library, which is impressive. He and others of his kin have made five trips back to Iceland, one which he returned from just recently with much enthusiasm. I think it would be safe to say he is exceptionally involved with anything that pertains to Iceland. He speaks and reads the language fluently and as is apparent in the tape he is extremely knowledgeable on the subject and loves to talk about it. We spent several hours during our first meeting looking at his slides, cards, books, and keepsakes which was an excellent introduction to our taped interview. Previous to our taping appointment he simply glowed with excitement about the things he knew of end could tell me about Iceland. Then as we started into the tape he became almost too formal and too concerned about a precise format. He was confident about his material and proceeded without notes during the entire interview. At times he was almost too confident and it sounds as if he were doing the whole thing himself. This was especially true of the more historical parts and those concerning present day Iceland which seemed to be his discussion favorite. I appreciated the information contributed but am disappointed in some excessive deviations on general items such as the water systems of the country. Lack of experience and confidence on my part is probably to blame for this. Either my initial explanations of the project were not clear enough or/and my questions not directive. In reviewing the tape I felt many of the questions were weak and indicted a dependency on this knowledge rather than a definite goal with the means set down. The introduction produced information valuable for background as did those concerning the early Mormon settlement, but where my knowledge of local history weakened, so did our dialogue. Overall the interview was productive and provided a good introduction to the project end gave me several valuable leads for future reference. Sister Hales provided both a personal and an objective view of the local Icelanders. One of the sweetest people in our town, she accepts everyone for what they are and the good that is in them as well as the bad. Not being an Icelander herself she didn't become sidetracked in the glories of Iceland and Icelandic heritage. Rather we were able to concentrate on specific individuals, living conditions, beliefs, experiences and a variety of speculations. As we began the interview her nervousness was somewhat apparent and she tended to repeat certain phrases. V/hen she became more confident she willingly revealed herself and her experiences without hesitation. Several things seemed to trouble her however,, end-at various times during the interview she would repeat regrets such as her failure to sing at a number of Icelanders funerals. In her sweet way she also voiced objections she still harbored concerning the fact that she was shown Jess consideration for her singing engagements then was another lady with fewer obligations. This particular interview was terminated with mixed feelings on my part; I had the impression that she had many more stories or experiences to share if properly stimulated. She was growing tired and we both needed a rest. In the in term between our next visit, her health suffered a setback by a fall she sustained in her front yard. Consequently we did not pursue our dialogue any further. The names of Sarah Hansen and Mary Andrus were suggested tome by Sister Hales and they proved to be enjoyable informants. Both are elderly; Mrs. Andrus is or was a little restless end hard of hearing, and Mrs. Hansen was rather shy and uncertain. Mrs. Hansen later informed me that she had suffered a stroke a few months earlier which explained her insecurity about her memory. Both ladies appeared to have a great deal to say about their past and Mary Andrus spoke quite freely about her girlhood. Sarah Hansen on the other hand was dependent upon her sister for suggestions and aids for her dialogue and lacked the confidence to really give of herself. This particular interview was really a challenge to me at first and after about thirty to forty minutes of dialogue I felt like we had accomplished only moderate success. Jarvis Warner, Mrs. Hansen's son, appeared on the scene to offer considerable assistance. His jovial personality seemed to add some spark to the interview and he contributed variety to the interview as well as some interesting experiences and information. Perhaps one most important contribution this family made to the project was to give meaning to the conditions of the poor living conditions. They were able to describe the demands of providing a means of livelihood and participation by all family members without bitterness or resentfulness. Interestingly enough I got the impression that they felt that struggles with nature were necessary as well as were those with society. They seemed to feel that it was right that they be asked to prove their worth prior to their acceptance into that community. They felt they had succeeded in proving themselves and had darned a certain amount of recognition. This is one instance when I wish I had taken time to become better acquainted with my people before I attempted to conduct an interview. More would have been accomplished. Eleanor Jarvis. I believe it was Hamlet that said . . . "Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow ..." practically intimating the passing of time without accomplishment. Without being too critical, this interview was my most difficult, Eleanor Jarvis is a fine woman, very dedicated to her Icelandic Heritage. She is a sister to Kate Carter and her brother Jack Bearnson is a prominent Icelandic genealogist. Eleanor however is a wonderful little lady with a great deal of knowledge and because obligation of her early years are gone she concentrates on journals and genealogy and other work concerning Iceland. Her information was valuable but it seemed that we had to wade through numerous amounts of materials not to be taped to get to that that could. I'm sure that my own urgency to proceed contributed very little to the confliction. I regret that many items assigned to untaped conversation because of her sensitivity about the potential reading audience. Other problems arose after the recording was made and the transcription returned. She was extremely cautious about the way she sounded. She also felt that much if not all should be redone to sound better. I was able to persuade her to leave the paper and tape as they were and make corrections and additions only where she felt information had not been given correctly or was not complete. I spent many very nervous moments with Mrs. Jervis trying to encourage her and explain to her the reasons for the informal nature of the interview. My success was somewhat questionable. But I did appreciate her concern and willingness to help. E. President Geslison provided my very favorite interview, probable because of his warm and personable manner. Our interview w: s conducted in the Spanish Fork High School Seminary building, in his office, which although rather small and crowded was quite compatible to our needs and put at his fingertips any or all information he needed. At one point during the interview he took the time to show me some of his work on genealogy. He reviewed on the tape how easy genealogy is to trace if you are or can be traced to a line of royalty or kings, which is apparently not uncommon because of the numbers of petty kings in the Scandinavian countries. His particular line connected to Harold the Fair Haired who was a unifying king of Norway and it was fascinating to see the royal names of history. Also, Bro. Geslison was much less sensitive about what he spoke about. He was careful not to use names unnecessarily or speculate on hearsay but I felt he was more concerned with the content of the tape and that it be complete and honest rather than about who was to read it and what they would think. He was, however, very soft spoken and I had difficulty in keeping his volume high enough to record. I also neglected to allow the recorder to warm itself up before proceeding and the introduction and first few sentences were left out. IV. Class Evaluation My impressions are for the cost part favorable. I am grateful for the opportunities provided and for the knowledge and relationships resulting from my project. The orientation week was exciting and extremely motivating. I was personally very stimulated by the concepts of this new type of historical research and its present and future potential. The opportunity for individuality was possibly the most exciting part and I think, Dr. Sadler, that your personal enthusiasm was the greatest contributor along with that of your colleague. Many good ideas have stayed on the ground because of a lack of, or the inability to generate a sincere enthusiasm. Looking back on my initiation to the project I felt unprepared in two ways specifically. First may I say I appreciated the expert discussion of the professors from Weber and Utah State University concerning their work in this field, however these men were professionally and academically involved and I don't feel presented a realistic impression of the project. Previous students of this project, not professionally involved, may have been helpful. I would like to have been warned by one of my own peers about the tedious hours of typing, research disappointments, dissatisfactory interviews, moments of discouragement as well as the successes resulting. I would have liked to question several of them in class and maybe have them demonstrate their opinions using their own tapes and transcripts. The one particular session where we listened, to sample tapes was only partially helpful and would have been more helpful to me to use after or in conjunction with the session mentioned above. Also I would like to have seen a sample project or projects complete to examine the authors purpose and technique. Our handouts were especially helpful, but the written word is much clearer when accompanied by the real thing. I regret not keeping in closer touch. About the end of July I was rather down, lost and frankly unmotivated. One mid-project regrouping of the troops to hash out problems and discouragements would really have helped. Sometimes sharing is good medication. The telephone conversations were extremely helpful and motivation was renewed at the conclusion. However! And speaking for myself one or two required group conferences at mid-points in the project would have been wonderful or did my failure to attend one result, from my own ignorance of their existence. In closing may I say that this has honestly been perhaps the most worthwhile projects for history that I've participated in. This would have been a much more realistic application of practical history for the senior history seminar then the written one required at B.Y.U.