Oral History Program Sabrina Poulson Interviewed by Nute Rands 17 August 2019 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Sabrina Poulson Interviewed by Nute Rands 17 August 2019 Copyright © 2022 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Beyond Suffrage Project was initiated to examine the impact women have had on northern Utah. Weber State University explored and documented women past and present who have influenced the history of the community, the development of education, and are bringing the area forward for the next generation. The project looked at how the 19th Amendment gave women a voice and representation, and was the catalyst for the way women became involved in the progress of the local area. The project examines the 50 years (1870-1920) before the amendment, the decades to follow and how women are making history today. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Poulson, Sabrina, an oral history by Nute Rands, 17 August 2019, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Sabrina Poulson Circa 2019 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Sabrina Poulson, conducted on August 17, 2019, in the Stewart Library, at Weber State University, by Nute Rands. In this interview, Sabrina discusses her life, her memories, and the impact of the 19th Amendment. Lorrie Rands, the video technician, is also present during this interview. NR: Alright, so the date is August 17th, the time is 1:04 p.m. and we are interviewing Sabrina Poulson. I am Nute Rands. On camera, is Lorrie Rands. Thank you so much for joining us today. When and where were you born? SH: I was born in Ogden. I believe at McKay-Dee Hospital and on January 10, 1997, sometime in the morning. NR: Okay, have you lived in Ogden your entire life? SH: No, I actually have never lived in Ogden. I was born in Ogden and we lived in Layton at the time. Then when I was about three, we moved to North Carolina for seven years and then we moved back in 2007. And then—so I lived in Syracuse from 2007 until March this year and now I live in Clearfield. NR: Okay. All over. So why did you move to North Carolina? SH: Well my mom is really close with her parents, and my grandpa owned a concrete company and that’s where the work took him. She was a young mom, probably 22 at the time, pregnant with my little sister. We moved there because she 2 needed help with childcare and everything, and it was a good opportunity for them to have free childcare. So we just kind of followed them out there. NR: So when you were a young girl, who were some of the women you looked up to and why? SH: Well, I was thinking about this question, and it’s kind of a tough question because we were kind of isolated out there. It was just kind of our immediate family and then my two grandparents and my two aunts that lived there. I didn’t really feel like I had a lot of role models to choose from because it was just kind of us in it of ourselves. But I would just say my mom, she’s always been a strong woman and has worked my entire life, and always strives to be her best and took really good care of the three of us despite her career. So that’s who I’ve always looked up to when I was young, and my aunts because they were extremely intelligent. Just my immediate family I would say. NR: Okay. So you haven’t mentioned a dad was your mom a single mother? SH: No, I’m very close with my dad, I just thought I’d keep it kind of women focused. But I’m happy to talk about him. My dad is my hero. I love him desperately. I don’t really know what else to say about it other than that, he’s just amazing. LR: What was it like going to school in North Carolina? Elementary school and what not? SH: It was interesting. It was different than it is here. When I moved here, obviously there’s a lot of involvement in the church and we’re outside of the church. So there’s a lot more “in-group” than “out-group” here. In North Carolina, I don’t 3 remember any “in-group” and “out-group”. I have one memory of somebody bringing up religion, but I think overall it was kind of what you would expect of an elementary school. I had a lot of friends. I remember I had a group of five of us and it was me and Jenna and Ashley and Serena and Juliana. I don’t have a ton of memories from there just because we moved here when I was in fifth grade. I would say it was a positive experience overall. NR: Okay, so to follow up that question, when you came to Utah, was it almost like a culture shock for you to come from a non-religious area to a severely religious area? SH: I think that it was less so because I was in elementary school. But I think had it been later, I would have definitely felt it more. It was different just because, we moved to a neighborhood on purpose that there were a lot of kids. My parents’ house is in between all three schools in Syracuse walking distance to every single school. And there was a lot of kids’ bikes in the neighborhood, so we chose that house. My brother and sister and I did kind of find it difficult to make friends because once they find out you’re not in the church, they either want you to start coming to church activities or they tell their kids “Oh no, you can’t play with them today.” That kind of a thing. So I think it was difficult to find quality friends. We did find friends, but they turned out to not be the best crowd. LR: You mentioned your father and one thing that I’ve noticed in all of this is when the father pushes their daughters to do tells them that they can do anything they want. How do you think your father has helped shape you into being a strong woman? 4 SH: My parents are like my idols as far as couples go, so I tend to think of them as a unit. LR: Okay. SH: So they never ever pushed us to do anything we didn’t want to do. They never told us we couldn’t do anything we wanted to do. I don’t think that they ever were the type to say, “You need to do better because…” You know? They weren’t pushy. They just let us be who we were. And I think that’s the best way to describe it. So they—like my parents never pushed me to go to college. It was something that I came to on my own. LR: Okay. SH: I remember they always told us, you know, “You don’t have to. You don’t have to go to college. You don’t have to do this or that with your life. Whatever you choose to do, just be the best.” That sounds like they would have been pushing us for excellence, but it wasn’t like that either. I don’t know how to explain it exactly. I think they did give us the sense that we could do everything and anything that we wanted to do. But I don’t feel like they ever had to explicitly say that because we just knew. LR: Okay. NR: If it wasn’t your parents that pushed you to get your education, why did you choose college? 5 SH: So I actually never wanted to go to college when I was a kid. My parents are both retail managers and I figured that would be enough for me and I had started working at a young age and I was really good at it and I really liked being in the workforce. So that was kind of my plan. I was just going to fall in their footsteps, become a retail manager, you make pretty good money doing that. So I thought, “Okay that will be enough for me.” When I graduated high school, like I said, I had no plans. They actually offered to pay for my first semester of college out of their 401k. That was my graduation gift from high school. I wanted to, they would pay for my first semester of college. I tried it and I absolutely fell in love with it. I feel like they gave me the opportunity. But I think I decided to stick with it just because of my positive experiences at Weber. NR: Awesome. So, I’ve heard from a lot of girls who have interviewed because they’re all Weber State students or closely related to it. Like they could have gone somewhere else after their associates, but they stayed here. Was there anything like that for you with Weber? SH: You know, it never actually occurred to me to go anywhere else after my associates. I just loved it here so much and I finished my associates, my first associates, in general studies and then I decided to take some business classes and finish my associates in business and economics. Then it just kind of seemed like the natural pathway to continue with Goddard. And I felt like the culture in the Goddard School of Business was exactly where I wanted to be. It didn’t ever occur to me to branch out or go to the U. I kind of have always felt like the U was overrated and it seems like that’s the only other option around here, if you want 6 to stay at home and not have to go live on campus. I don’t think I ever actually ever looked into another college because I just felt so at home here. So I think it’s interesting that you found that other women that have gone here have felt like a home here. NR: Right and it’s one of the most common correlations that I’ve found so far. So do you think your choice of education or career would be different if you were born in a previous generation? SH: I definitely think that. I think that the opportunities that are afforded to women now are so different that it’s almost natural pathway. If you want to college, you go to college. It’s not that big of a deal. But I think in a previous generation, it wasn’t like that. You couldn’t just go to college. Something that my grandma said to me recently. My sister and I were talking about whether or not we wanted to have kids. Because my sister doesn’t want to have kids and we were just kind of discussing that and my grandma said that she really thought it was interesting that women these days have that choice. Because when she was growing up, when she was my age, it was just kind of given. You know, you got married, you had a kid, and that’s just the way it was. So, I think that had I been born in a previous generation, I think that it would have been very different because the expectation is that you get married and you have kids. And that doesn’t leave a lot of room for career paths or education. NR: How did your first job compare to your mother’s and or grandmother’s first job? 7 SH: So I actually, I had to do some digging on this one because my mom and I actually had the same first job. NR: Okay. SH: My first job was at Lagoon. My mom’s first job was at Lagoon. And the different there, my mom was in rides and I was in foods. So it was a little bit different but I found out that her minimum wage when she was working was $3.50. I thought that that was really interesting. I reached out to my grandma and I asked her what her first job was and she was actually a records clerk for the Davis County Jail. I thought that was really interesting and a little bit surprising. I wouldn’t have quite expected that. Then I found out that her mother was a telephone operator, so I thought it was really interesting that like the word “secretary” didn’t come up at all. Or housekeeper, or any of those types of things. That’s what I kind of found when I was digging into it a little bit. NR: Okay. That’s really cool. You said you really looked into this. Did your mother, grandmother, or great-grandmother, after their first job, did they immediately go start a family? Or did they have more jobs? SH: So with my mom, she was at Lagoon and then she worked as a manager for Pizza Hut and then she had me. So my parents were married when they were 18 and then they had me at 19. And so that’s been kind of just a natural progression. She was in at Lagoon and then worked various restaurant type jobs. I know she worked at Cracker Barrel—which is also interesting because that was my second job. So she was a pizza manager and then went to work for 8 Home Depot. But yeah, all while having a family. My grandmother, her name is Sandy. She was a Davis County clerk and I don’t know exactly what she did in between, but I know that she got married to my grandpa Mike when she was right out of high school. And then they had my dad and my uncle Josh and then they subsequently divorced and she married my grandpa Dale, who I absolutely adore. I love him desperately. They have four kids together total after the marriage. And they both worked on base through childhood, so she worked and had a family. Her mother, I found out, after she was a telephone operator, she— it was funny because I asked her “What was your mom’s first job?” And she said, “Well she was a telephone operator before she got married.” I said, “Oh that’s interesting that you say specifically before she got married.” So it sounds to me like that was her one and only job and then she got married and had a family and was a stay-at-home mom. After I asked her, “Was she a stay-at-home mom?” She said, “Very few women weren’t.” It’s kind of is—it’s a tough contrast in my mother and I just because she’s only 20 years older than I am. We are very similar in drive. And when you look at my great-grandmother, that was her only option was to be a stay-at-home mom. Does that answer your question? NR: Oh yeah. And on your grandmother, you said she got divorced. How did that go down? SH: I don’t know if there was a lot of issues surrounding it. It’s just how it’s been my whole life. And so I don’t think there was a lot of issues and I think it was for the better. So I have two grandpas now and I think that’s great. They were married 9 when my dad was very young and so my dad got to have another dad and that was great. And now we have this great big family that I couldn’t love more. LR: As you were growing up, how did you watch your mother as she balanced home and work? How did she manage that? SH: I think she leaned on my dad a lot. I think they worked together really well to make it work. They both worked full-time. My mom has always had jobs where she’s had to work up to 60 hours a week. I think that you know, when we were really young and we were living in North Carolina, we had a good support system out there. We had my grandma and grandpa—on my mom’s side. Then my two aunts and so there was a while where they were paying my aunt Candy to not to work and she would stay and watch us during the day and she’s usually had jobs where she’s worked during the day and she could be home at night and vice versa. Like she would work an alternating shift job and my dad would only work day jobs. My dad’s in the parts industry, so it’s usually like a 9-5 type of positon. And so I think it balanced out pretty well with just us being in school and then working separate shifts. When we moved back here. We were in Boys and Girls Club after school for a little while and my grandma lives just down the block from us. So I think just using your support network, I think that’s how they balanced it. My mom, I think it was really interesting to see how she has been able to have a professional life and a home life. I have friends who have stay at home moms, but I never felt like I was missing anything. NR: So what are some of your motivations in your education and career? 10 SH: You know, I’ve been interviewing for jobs lately. And I’ve had some questions similar to that and that’s kind of a tough question because I don’t know what they are, I just love it. And so I just love going to school and so that’s my motivation for school, is that I just feel a sense of accomplishment and I like being here. I like the culture at Weber. I just have a passion for it. As far as work, I think that I’ve just always had kind of an engrained sense of, work ethic. Just seeing my parents work so hard in their jobs, very rarely taking sick days, always doing their best. So I just have tried to emulate that. And I think that that’s what motivates me, is just an internal thing and I want to succeed of course, and I have goals outside of working. I want to buy a house next year. I think even if I wasn’t trying to buy a house, I would still be motivated to move forward in my career just because that’s kind of a part of my personality. I like to always be moving forward and looking to the next thing. And to do that, you have to succeed in your current role. NR: So, just for clarification, what is your career right now? SH: So right now, I work at the Smiths corporate office and I’m a division meat and seafood administrative assistant. What I do is I support all 142 stores for their meat and seafood departments and kind of all the supply chain and any like… if they have any issues I support them on that. We manage costs, fluctuation, and allocations, so you know in the holidays I manage a lot of inventory movement for the turkeys and the hams and stuff like that. It’s kind of hard to describe because it’s chaotic all of the time. But I like it. I would say that that’s my job. My career plan is human resource. So that’s what I finished my degree in here and that’s 11 what I would prefer to be working in. I mean, I love my job and I love the people I work with, but I don’t know that I would call it my career, just because I don’t plan on staying in merchandising and supply-chain. NR: Okay, so what challenges have you faced in your academic career and job? SH: I don’t know that I’ve—Okay. So I don’t think I faced any challenges in my academic career just because I love it so much. I feel like the support at Weber has been really good and I don’t know what else to say about it. I don’t know that I faced a lot of challenges in my academics. I mean, one that I would say is that I don’t qualify for any financial aid and that’s been a challenge. And so I’ve been working full-time while I’ve been going to school. But it’s been, you know, it’s been great. And with my career I would say, I would kind of revert back to the fact that I’m on the job hunt right now for a role in human resource and that’s been very challenging. I think that my age has had a lot to do with it, I’m only 22. And so it’s been really difficult to have people I think take me seriously during an interview and be able to find something that is up to level with my knowledge and my skills without having to regress back to like a $10 an hour job to be able to get my foot back into the door with HR. Does that answer your question? NR: Oh yeah, definitely. I asked this in a couple of previous of the women that I’ve interviewed, but have you ever had a circumstance at a job where you were getting backlash from an employer and you didn’t stand up simply because you didn’t want to lose your job? Or someone in a circumstance while you were working with them had that’s been where they couldn’t stand up for themselves simply because they felt like they couldn’t. 12 SH: That’s a tough question because I’m not one to shy away from conflict. I kind of prefer to just embrace things head on. But I mean, I definitely know people who’ve had issues, you know. I need to think about this one a little bit. Can you repeat the question for me? NR: So at any point, have anyone you known or yourself had an employer that made it difficult for you to do your job or made it difficult for you to tell them off or to tell them to go away simply because you didn’t want to lose your job or you didn’t want the discrimination in the workplace. SH: So I don’t know that I’ve ever faced discrimination in the workplace. But I have had supervisors in the past, and I won’t say which job it was, but I’ve had supervisors in the past that have been very difficult and made me feel like my personality was an issue. And the reason I bring this up is because I’ve been told that my confidence is intimidating in several roles that I’ve held. And that can be very frustrating, you know, but my opinion is that if I wasn’t a woman, they wouldn’t feel that way. What is shocking about this is that I’ve been told this by women. So it’s surprising to me to be told that I, you know, I shouldn’t be so confident. And I’ve been referred to as a secretary multiple times and I’ve never held the role of secretary in my life. I think that that is the biggest thing and so I’m a red/blue. I’m really confident and I really like to take my own initiative and manage my own things. But I’m also really emotional and so trying to have those conversation with these couple of women that have said this to me, was really difficult. For me to stand up for myself in that situation because obviously I can’t go to them and say, “You only feel this way because I’m a woman.” But that’s 13 where I’m at. You know? And so it’s very aggravating and it’s really hard to keep this all in line. SH: So I guess that’s the biggest challenge I’ve faced as far as conflict at work and being afraid to stand up for myself, is when I’m being told that aspects of my personality are intimidating or too much. And I feel that I’ve seen men that have very similar personalities to me and nobody says anything. Does that make sense? NR: 100%. So what do you mean by red/blue? I don’t know that phrase. SH: Oh, it’s a personality color wheel because there’s red, blue, yellow, and white. I have never actually taken the test. After reading the color wheel, you know, red personality types are very, controlling and confident and they always want to be right. I’d have to show you the color wheel. But blue personality types are very emotional and want to please people and you know, keep things on the neutral ground. White color personality type people are the type that they tend to just kind of avoid conflict, or they are very good resolving conflict. Yellow personality types are just very fun. I’m probably butchering it because I’m not an expert on the personality types, but in general, I’m just a very “A” personality type. I’m also emotional and I’ll cry if I have to tell somebody that what they were doing is hurting me or that kind of a thing. NR: I’ve never even heard. Which is funny because I’m a psychology major. SH: No, you’re good. NR: So as a woman, how would you define courage? 14 SH: So that’s difficult because I’ve never actually had to think of that. But I never thought that I needed to think of this from the perspective of a woman. Like it never occurred to me. But I think courage is just doing things saying something that scares you and doing it anyway. I think that’s what I would define it as. NR: What does the term “women’s work” mean to you? SH: So when you asked me about this on the phone, I thought about this. And I think that there’s two sides to this and I think that women’s work in the stereotype tends to be that secretary position and you know being a stay-at-home mom and you know, doing the dishes, cleaning the kitchen, mopping the floors, taking care of the house, taking care of your husband. I think that’s what people tend to associate women’s work. I think it’s generally used as a derogatory term. But, to me, I think that women can do absolutely anything that men can do. I don’t mean to say that as every woman can do everything that every man can do. I know that that’s not true, because every person can’t do everything that every person can do. But, I think that there’s always a woman out there that can do it. I think that the term, “women’s work” to me should really just be work, because I don’t think that there should be a line there. NR: When do you think the term started to change? SH: I would say pretty recently. NR: Okay. SH: Obviously there’s still a wage gap, and so there’s still issues surrounding the subject and I think people are just now starting to realize that there’s no 15 difference. I mean if you think about it, there’s welding. That’s consider a men’s industry, but I know plenty of women who can weld. There’s construction— men’s industry, but my mom’s best friend is a construction manager. She’s a woman, she actually is a Weber State graduate, I don’t know that it has changed. I think that if you were to say, “women’s work” in a crowd right now, people’s minds would immediately jump to housekeeping. But you know, I’d like to see it change more. I’d like to see more women think that they can do anything that men can do because I know all too many women who are in this secretary cesspool that they think that they can’t do anything that they set their minds to. Yeah, I don’t know that it has changed yet. NR: Well the reason I ask is because half of the women that I’ve interviewed, I don’t know about my mother, had no idea what the word meant. SH: Really? NR: Yeah. SH: That’s good to hear actually. NR: No clue and so I literally had to explain the stereotype to them and so it was great. And they were just, “Really? That’s a thing?” I was like, “Yeah.” SH: So tell me. Are these women that have said this, are they in my age range? Or are they…? NR: Uh huh. Yeah. SH: I think that’s refreshing. I’d like… I’m surprised, honestly. Especially in Utah. 16 NR: Me too. SH: Because of the role of women in Utah. I think that that is surprising that they had never heard that term. NR: So the Women’s Rights Movement back in the 60’s, if you had the chance to go back and if you got to choose how things went down, would you do it the same? SH: You know, I’m not a history buff and so I don’t know that I can answer this very well. I’ll be honest with you, just because I don’t know enough about it to say whether or not I would do it the same. I had planned to research it more before I got here, just didn’t end up with the time. I think there should have been more of an emphasis on changing attitude than changing laws because, you know, we changed the law that women get to vote, that’s great. And I mean, that was before the 60’s. LR: Right. SH: No, I don’t know anything about the women’s rights movement in the 60’s then, but I think that not enough has changed to call it 100% success. NR: Well I say 60’s or 70’s I’m just rounding. SH: So when I think 70’s I think of like the more freedom sexually. Yeah, I don’t think I know enough about it to give you my opinion. I’m sorry. NR: No, it’s all good. What advice would you give to young women and/or older women? 17 SH: I think that I would tell them to give themselves more credit. I was thinking about this and I don’t think women give themselves enough credit. I have an interview with the health building for a recruiter position. I have to come up with a presentation on how to recruit students to Weber State. So I started interviewing my friends and family about why or why they didn’t go to college and a lot of the answers I got were because I got married, because I started a family, because of the time commitment, and you know, a lot of that was from women obviously with the children aspect. And so I think that in that, I’ve learned that people don’t give themselves enough credit, women in particular. That they can go above and beyond and do anything that they want to do. And I think my advice would be to just always continue to grow and be confident. You know, given that it’s intimidating for a woman to be confident. I think that the problem is that not enough women are. And so that would be the advice that I would give is to be more confident and give yourself more credit. NR: How do you think women’s rights are going to change going forward? SH: That’s tough to say with everything that’s going on right now with all of the different states and reproductive health laws and the gender pay gap. I’d like to see that close, I’d like to see more women in congress, because the problem is that we have the rights. They’re there. They’re not taken seriously enough. I think that, yes, women have the right to vote, but we’re not represented in congress. Only twenty-three percent of congress is female and so I think that that’s an issue. Especially with the states that are passing these outrageous women’s health laws. I think that that’s an issue because there’s no female 18 representation there either. And so I think that that’s how women’s rights are going to change, I think that there’s going to be more of an equal representation in the legislature and I think that it needs to change because right now. The issue is that not enough women are voting. I don’t know what that demographic looks like. But I think that the country is open to the idea of a female president, but not really. They want to look like it, but they’re not actually open to it. I think that’s how it’s going to change. I think that the rights that are there will be strengthened by representation. NR: I totally agree. How do you… how would you change women’s rights for future generations? SH: For future generations? Well, this is going to be very polarizing, but I would say that men shouldn’t be able… not that men shouldn’t be able to vote on women’s productive health rights issues. But definitely we need to have the female voice in there. And then that would be helpful to the future generations. I just think overall more representation in the government. I don’t think it’s fair to have elderly white men making our decisions with no real perspective on what we go through. NR: Do you have any stories to give before I ask the last question? SH: I remember I was telling you that your average straight white female and I haven’t experienced a lot of adversity. I think that I haven’t experienced anything that I think has adversely affected my life as a woman other than just you know, your average, being afraid to get in an elevator alone, walking into my apartment 19 alone. Like just kind of your everyday type of things. So I mean, I’m happy if you guys would like to give me a prompt, I can tell you a story about it. NR: No story is unimportant. Every story has a purpose. SH: Well I just don’t know. Not one just comes immediately rushing. NR: But what I would like to touch on is I’ve had a lot of times talking with males where they simply don’t understand the fear of going outside alone. The fear of what it means to go into an unknown circumstance and that feeling that something could happen. I kind of want to get your perspective on that. SH: Oh yeah. Okay so I was just about a week ago. Maybe a week and a half ago, my grandparents that I was telling lived around the block? They recently moved to Beaver and they were up here visiting and they were staying in a hotel in Layton. And so I went over to visit them and I was leaving, I was in a hurry because I told my boyfriend I’d pick up dinner. And so I was going to pick up dinner and then as I was running and I was trying to catch the elevator. And I caught the elevator and I got in and I looked over and there was just this extremely creepy man. I don’t know how to describe other than that. Just generally unsettling and so I jumped in the elevator, and as soon as I jumped in, he started pressing the close button just like, you know, rapidly. And so I was like, “Oh. I forgot something.” And I just jumped out and ran back to the room because I was terrified. You know, broad daylight, I was terrified to ride down this elevator with this man. My boyfriend was at work. I was bringing a rug up, we had just moved in, it’s pretty big. I can carry it myself, there’s no problem, you 20 know? And this guy—I mean, he was young. He was probably perfectly fine. Probably nothing wrong with him whatsoever. But he offered to help me and I was like, “Oh no, no.” Because I was already close to my door and I didn’t want to open my door while this guy is on the same floor as me. So I waited until he went all of the way up the stairs and then I opened my door and took the rug in and shut the door and locked it. Sometimes Don will leave for work and forget to lock the door and you know, I check before I start getting ready to make sure that the door is locked. Just that kind of stuff. NR: How do you think women receiving the right to vote shaped or influenced history, your community, or you personally? SH: Despite the fact that I’ve said that I don’t that women aren’t as confident as they should be, I think it kind of kickstarted women doing things for themselves. My great grandmother was a stay-at-home mom but then my grandmother wasn’t. She worked her whole life. I mean, now she’s retired. But she worked, you know, the average amount and was very successful in her career. But that wouldn’t have happened if the women’s rights movement hadn’t kickstarted with the right to vote. So I think that it really kind of paved the way for women in the work place and women being their own person rather than just following with what their husband says or their father, you know, whatever male figure has decided that this is what’s going to happen and that this is how their life is going to go. I think that women’s right to vote has really influenced that into where women can be their own person. LR: How do you think it’s influenced you? 21 SH: I think that it’s influenced kind of the progression of my female relatives to the point where I’ve never had to think about it. And I think that that’s an interesting kind of development where I’ve never had to think about the way women gaining the right to vote would have affected me. I think that kind of digging in and seeing that it never occurred to me that I would have had to be a stay-at-home mom. That’s interesting. So I think that that’s how it affected me personally is that it has never once occurred to me that I wouldn’t do something that I wanted to do. So. LR: That’s awesome. NR: Alright thank you so much for joining us today. SH: Yeah.